Trash Talk: Where Bad Advice + Cliches Get Taken Out
What if the so-called “truths” about growth and success are actually keeping you playing small?
On Trash Talk, hosts Erica Breuer and Erin Thomas unpack empty platitudes and tired cliches that dominate the business and personal development world. These ideas might be popular, but that doesn’t mean they’re useful.
Who listens to Trash Talk?
- Skeptics and Questioners of hollow advice
- Those asking why self-help advice fails
- People done with toxic self-help culture
- Anyone who wants a place to finally talk openly about all the advice that makes you roll your eyes
Trash Talk: Where Bad Advice + Cliches Get Taken Out
"Nobody Reads Anymore" w/Natalie Ponte
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This week, we're joined by writer, editor, and audiobook evangelist Natalie Ponte ask a simple question:
Is reading really disappearing, or are we simply redefining what it means to be a reader?
Because if someone devours audiobooks while folding laundry, inhales graphic novels in a weekend, or spends hours reading newsletters, essays, and long-form journalism... are they really not a reader?
Maybe (just maybe) there are people out there clinging to a very specific and outdated idea of what reading is supposed to look like ;)
The Trash Talk Hotline
Tell us about a cliche that bothers you every time you hear it.
Leave a message on the Trash Talk hotline at (719) 819-2175—your voice could end up in a future episode.
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Natalie’s Links
https://www.schmendricks.shop/
https://linktr.ee/schmendricks
Other Links & Resource
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https://libro.fm/playlists/trashtalk
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Follow Erica Breuer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericabreuer/
Follow Erin Thomas: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamerinthomas/
Visit Trash Talk Website: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2451264
Nobody Reads Anymore w/Natalie Ponte
Trash Talk — Episode 42| July 2026
In this bonus episode of Trash Talk, Erica Breuer and Erin Thomas are joined by writer and audiobook advocate Natalie Ponte to unpack the cliché that "nobody reads anymore." Together, they explore the rise of audiobooks, why schools often undermine a love of reading, what should count as reading, and why stories remain one of our most powerful tools for building empathy and imagination.
Table of Contents
- Intro
- Is There Really a Reading Crisis?
- Why People Stop Reading
- What Counts as Reading?
- Why It's Okay to Quit a Book
- Fiction, Nonfiction, and Reading for Pleasure
- How Audiobooks Are Changing Reading Habits
- Who Benefits from the "Reading Crisis" Narrative?
- Why Reading Still Matters
- Guest Interview Highlights
- Key Takeaways
- Call to Action
- Show Notes & Links
Intro
Erica: Welcome to Trash Talk, the podcast where bad advice and clichés get taken out.
If you're new here, the thing to know is that while we might be critics, we're not cynics. We're here to figure out what's actually worth keeping.
We're technically in the middle of our summer break, but we couldn't resist recording a bonus episode about a phrase we've been hearing everywhere lately:
"Nobody reads anymore."
To help us unpack it, we're joined by writer, editor, and audiobook advocate Natalie Ponte.
Main Topic: Is There Really a Reading Crisis?
Erica: When you hear someone say, "Nobody reads anymore," what comes to mind?
Natalie: I think people sometimes use that phrase to justify their own relationship with reading. The reality is more complicated. While physical book sales have shifted, audiobooks continue to grow. People are still consuming books—they're just doing it differently.
That raises a bigger question: Why do people feel guilty about not reading in the first place?
Natalie reflects on her lifelong love of books, while acknowledging that many people have a much more complicated relationship with reading. As a parent of reluctant readers, she's gained empathy for the barriers people face—from dyslexia and ADHD to caregiving responsibilities and educational experiences that made reading feel like work instead of joy.
The conversation explores how schools often unintentionally replace curiosity with compliance. Required reading logs, rigid assignments, and a narrow definition of literacy can transform enthusiastic young readers into reluctant ones.
Rather than asking students how many pages they completed, the hosts wonder whether better questions might be:
- What was your favorite part?
- What surprised you?
- How did this story make you feel?
- What would you have changed if you were the author?
Those questions encourage engagement rather than measurement.
Main Topic: What Counts as Reading?
The discussion expands into what it actually means to be a reader.
Is listening to an audiobook reading?
Do graphic novels count?
What about essays, newsletters, biographies, or spending hours learning through long-form articles online?
For Erica, becoming comfortable calling herself a reader took time because she rarely gravitated toward fiction. Instead, she devoured biographies, documentaries in book form, newsletters, and research. Eventually she realized that reading isn't defined by genre—it's defined by meaningful engagement with ideas.
Natalie agrees that we should welcome more people into reading rather than policing the format. Audiobooks and graphic novels have introduced countless adults and children to stories they otherwise wouldn't have experienced.
At the same time, she draws a distinction between adapting how we read and fundamentally changing the work itself. Reading only the dialogue in a novel, for example, means missing the author's craft and the world they've created.
The conversation lands on a broader principle: expanding access to reading doesn't require lowering our appreciation for storytelling.
Main Topic: Why It's Okay to Quit a Book
One of Natalie's more controversial opinions is that many nonfiction books could have been essays.
She argues that prescriptive nonfiction often stretches a simple idea across hundreds of pages when the core insight could have been communicated far more effectively in a shorter format.
That leads to another important permission:
You don't have to finish every book you start.
The hosts discuss embracing the "DNF" ("Did Not Finish") mindset. Reading is supposed to be enjoyable, not another obligation on an endless to-do list. If a book has already given you what you needed—or simply isn't working—you don't have to force yourself to finish it.
Main Topic: Fiction, Nonfiction, and Reading for Pleasure
The conversation explores how different readers find meaning in different formats.
Natalie gravitates toward fiction because stories invite curiosity rather than instruction. She admits that one reason she struggles with certain self-help books is the assumption that one person's experience can be universally applied.
Instead, she prefers novels and memoirs that allow readers to discover meaning for themselves.
The hosts also celebrate reading for pure enjoyment. Whether it's literary fiction, romance novels, celebrity memoirs, or graphic novels, reading doesn't have to be educational to be valuable.
Finding books that genuinely excite you is far more important than reading books you think you should enjoy.
Natalie shares advice inspired by author Ocean Vuong, who credits librarians and independent booksellers—not classrooms—with helping him discover books aligned with his interests. That freedom, he argues, helped him become both a reader and eventually a writer.
Main Topic: How Audiobooks Are Changing Reading Habits
The hosts agree that audiobooks have fundamentally expanded who gets to identify as a reader.
Natalie explains that audiobooks have helped her finish nonfiction she may have abandoned in print by pairing listening with routine activities like cooking, laundry, or cleaning.
Erin shares a similar story about her mother, whose declining eyesight made traditional reading difficult. Audiobooks allowed her to rediscover a lifelong passion for books.
Erica reflects on how her own relationship with reading has changed over time. Reading once served as both escape and anxiety management—a way of feeling productive through constant information gathering. As her life changed, she found herself becoming more intentional about choosing books she genuinely wanted to read.
Natalie's work introducing audiobooks to workplaces has reinforced one lesson repeatedly: many adults who never considered themselves readers discover a love of books once the format becomes accessible.
The conclusion is simple:
Audiobooks aren't replacing reading—they're expanding it.
Main Topic: Who Benefits from the "Reading Crisis" Narrative?
The conversation shifts from whether people are reading to who benefits from insisting they aren't.
The hosts acknowledge that there are legitimate literacy challenges among younger generations, particularly following the disruption of the pandemic. Those concerns deserve attention.
But they also question whether some versions of the "reading crisis" narrative are fueled by gatekeeping.
If reading is narrowly defined as sitting quietly with a printed novel, millions of people are excluded despite regularly consuming books through audiobooks, graphic novels, ebooks, or other long-form formats.
Instead of shaming people for how they read, the hosts argue that educators and parents should help people discover stories they genuinely love.
The discussion also critiques increasing screen dependence in schools, suggesting that classrooms often send conflicting messages by replacing physical books with digital platforms while simultaneously telling students they should read more.
Main Topic: Why Reading Still Matters
As the episode concludes, the hosts consider a thought experiment:
What would disappear if people truly stopped reading?
Natalie's answer is immediate:
Empathy.
Stories allow us to inhabit perspectives other than our own in ways that film, television, and social media cannot fully replicate.
The group also points to imagination—the ability to build worlds in our own minds and lose ourselves in someone else's experience—as one of reading's greatest gifts.
For Erica, books provide something else entirely: a mental reset. Reading quiets the constant internal chatter and creates space to return to everyday life with greater clarity.
The conversation ends with cautious optimism. Every generation worries that the next one is consuming culture incorrectly, yet younger readers are rediscovering physical books, independent bookstores, vinyl records, and slower forms of media.
Rather than disappearing, reading may simply be evolving.
Guest Interview Highlights
"Reading should be a vice, not a virtue."
"Many nonfiction books probably should have been essays."
"Audiobooks don't replace reading—they expand who gets to be a reader."
"The way to solve a reading crisis isn't shaming people. It's helping them find stories they actually love."
"If people stopped reading entirely, the first thing we'd lose would be empathy."
Key Takeaways
- Reading is evolving—not disappearing.
- Audiobooks, graphic novels, and ebooks are legitimate ways to engage with books.
- Schools often prioritize tracking reading over cultivating curiosity.
- Reading for pleasure is every bit as valuable as reading for productivity.
- You don't have to finish every book you start.
- Fiction builds empathy and imagination in ways few other media can.
- Expanding the definition of reading welcomes more people into lifelong learning.
Call to Action
If this episode challenged the way you think about reading, we'd love to hear from you.
Subscribe to Trash Talk, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who's convinced that "nobody reads anymore."
And if you're looking for your next great read—or listen—check out our curated Libro.fm playlist in the show notes and support independent bookstores while discovering books we genuinely recommend.
Show Notes & Links
Follow Erica Breuer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericabreuer/
Follow Erin Thomas: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamerinthomas/
Visit the Trash Talk website: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2451264
Related Episode: All the Gurus series
Featured Guest: Natalie Ponte — Writer, editor, and audiobook advocate working with Libro.fm to bring audiobooks to workplaces while supporting independent bookstores.
https://www.schmendricks.shop/
https://linktr.ee/schmendricks
