Inside the FBI: Eric Robinson on SWAT Raids, Polygraphs, and Real Investigations

In this episode of Inside the Polygraph, David Goldberg sits down with retired FBI Special Agent Eric Robinson to break down what life inside the Bureau is really like. With over 24 years of service, Eric brings firsthand experience from major investigations, counterterrorism, counterintelligence, informant recruitment, financial crimes, and sexual child exploitation cases, along with time spent on an elite FBI SWAT team. Eric walks listeners through the FBI hiring process step by step, from application and background investigation to interviews, physical fitness testing, the polygraph, and training at Quantico. He also explains what degrees and experience stand out to recruiters and why it is important to keep multiple career paths open.

The conversation continues into life as an FBI agent, including how new agents are assigned, what early field training looks like, and how careers evolve across different types of investigations. Eric shares insight into working everything from drug cases to counterintelligence, highlighting the flexibility and demands of the job. He also dives into his experience on FBI SWAT, discussing tryouts, team dynamics, breaching, and how tactical teams coordinate closely with hostage negotiators during high-risk operations, giving a real-world look at how these missions are planned and executed.

One of the most unique aspects of this episode is Eric’s background before law enforcement. Prior to the FBI, he spent over a decade as a Baptist pastor, and he explains how that experience shaped his ability to communicate, build rapport, and connect with people, skills that became critical in interviews and investigations. David and Eric explore the human side of law enforcement, emphasizing the importance of listening without judgment and understanding that even those who commit serious crimes still want to be heard.

Eric also introduces his upcoming book, Irreverent, a memoir detailing his journey from ministry to the FBI, along with stories, lessons, and insights from his career. Whether you are interested in federal law enforcement, tactical operations, or real investigative work, this episode delivers practical insight and honest perspective.

The information presented in this podcast is based on the real-life experiences and professional expertise of David Goldberg, expert polygraph examiner with Executive Protection Group Polygraph Services, based in Virginia Beach, and guest Eric Robinson, retired FBI Special Agent and former FBI SWAT operator.

Connect with Eric Robinson:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-robinson-9220053a4/

Instagram: @_eric_robinson

📞 Call David at (757) 495-1301 to get started now.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Inside the Polygraph. I'm your host, David Goldberg, expert polygraph examiner. Join me as I and my guests break down the facts, fictions of polygraph testing, law enforcement, and so much more. Real cases, real conversations. The truth is always revealed inside the polygraph.

[00:00:21] David: Welcome to Inside the Polygraph. I'm your host, David Goldberg. We have a very special guest on today's show, and like all my guests, they're special. But this one I think you're really going to enjoy. And I think this episode is really going to resonate with a lot of my followers today's show. This guest, and I'm not gonna mention his name quite yet, but this episode is going to be about a lot of the things that people send me questions and ask me a lot of things about the federal enforcement. [00:01:00] And this guest is a recently retired FBI special agent of over 24 years. Our guest experience, expert experience in investigations that are. heinous crimes out there, financial fraud that include counterintelligence with some of the most heinous crimes that you wouldn't even want to sit in a room with the suspect of sexual child exploitation cases and many other types of crimes.

[00:01:40] David: He also has experience in recruiting informants, counterintelligence, and our guest has numerous accolades for his dedicated service. This special guest is also a very published author of a book, and he's later going to tell [00:02:00] you about it, not early, but later, so that you absolutely follow along in this podcast. What I want to tell my listeners, and we have to help this guest is he's ranked number two the globally on match.com for being a guest on all the podcast out there, and we're gonna send him to number one on my podcast. And how you're going to do that is. Three different ways. One, by liking my podcast and subscribing.

[00:02:37] David: And two, he's gonna give you his Instagram later, and you're going to like and subscribe to his Instagram and you're gonna send him to number one. And that's exactly how we're gonna do that for this guest. Without any further delay, I wanna welcome to inside the polygraph, Eric Robinson. Welcome, Eric.

[00:02:57] Eric Robinson: Thanks, David, and that's [00:03:00] completely

[00:03:00] David: I know it's

[00:03:00] Eric Robinson: the entire reason I'm here. ~Just to, just,~ just to be number one.

[00:03:02] David: and I talked on the side, my guests can't send you to the top, then you and I, we spoke on how we're gonna do it privately.

[00:03:12] Eric Robinson: ~We'll have,~ we'll have a good talk anyway, regardless.

[00:03:14] David: I wanna really thank you very much for accepting the invite to be on this show. It means a lot and all my guests that accept it, I'm very grateful for you being on this podcast.

[00:03:26] Eric Robinson: Glad to be here and from our previous discussion, I think we've got some good things to talk about too.

[00:03:32] David: I hope I did you some justice in reference to the introduction of your bio.

[00:03:37] Eric Robinson: Absolutely. I am probably the most well awarded agent. Don't look that up on the internet. Just ~take,~ take it as truth and accept that

[00:03:45] David: failed to mention, and I did

[00:03:48] Eric Robinson: I.

[00:03:48] David: say this, is he is also a of the Elite FBI SWAT team, and I did not want to leave that out and we're gonna talk about that later. So that's one thing I [00:04:00] did not want to leave out of your bio before I allow you to do a lot of talking. The reason why you are so, ~uh,~ special on my is, is I get a lot of phone calls, emails, text messages from a lot of my listeners who are very interested in obtaining their dream job in the federal government, either the FBI, secret service, CIA, whatever in law enforcement, even in local law enforcement, fire department, EMS, and what process they have to go through. And I give them some serious, ~you know,~ good advice. I don't give 'em any kind of secrets 'cause there are none. But I give them some ~good,~ good advice. But I wanted you because you have some serious dedicated service and you know what that process is all about. And before I let you go step by step, would you give the senior high school students that are getting ready to graduate [00:05:00] and what would you say to the freshmen students that are taking their courses and they're thinking about what degree that they need to get to go into the FBI that looks well on their application, that the FBI recruiters would say, oh wow, this is a good degree. like this. What degree would you say is very important to the agency that they would want?

[00:05:31] Eric Robinson: A lot of people go along the lines of criminal justice degrees, which ~I,~ I say is good. It doesn't help you get in the FBI, but it's good because ~I,~ I wouldn't put all my eggs in the FBI basket because one, you may not get in you and you may not want to. So the working in the FBI, it's the best job you can have.

[00:05:52] Eric Robinson: Highly recommended, and I've recommended it to many people like you're talking about. But also there may be people who feel [00:06:00] like police work is more to their liking because you can have an everyday effect on your community. You have more interaction with people, some with the FBI may say, well that's kind of dull.

[00:06:12] Eric Robinson: ~You know,~ you're doing long-term investigations as opposed to bringing results right now. So if someone wants to get a criminal justice degree, then that doesn't hurt them in the FBI and it probably broadens their options to move into police work. Sheriff work. But the types of degrees that are very appealing to the FBI, obviously one is, ~uh,~ a law degree, but ~you know,~ now you're laying out a lot of money and a lot of time to get there.

[00:06:43] Eric Robinson: ~Uh, again,~ it's been this way for decades and accounting degree is always winsome to the recruiters. And then on top of that, if you have any type of it experience, ~um,~ cybersecurity and foreign language capability and not just, I took some [00:07:00] classes in college, but a level of proficiency, ~it doesn't, I mean, I,~ if you're a native speaker of another language and then you know English very well, that's gonna be very appealing to the recruiters.

[00:07:13] Eric Robinson: All that being said, the first step is just getting through. The application process where somebody looks at the form and says, okay, this guy, this gal looks good enough to move along to the next step. And many people, if you've got a college degree, if you have at least three years at least of work experience outside of college are probably going to get far enough ~if, if~ you have a clean record, you've done well enough in college, then you'll, you'll move on to that next step.

[00:07:49] Eric Robinson: And now the winnowing process happens where now you're taking the test and people are failing those or doing not as well. So just having ~I, I mean,~ I would say if somebody has [00:08:00] a good GPA and a degree and time served outside of college, take that shot because you never know. I mean, I took a shot on a whim and I thought the FBI might be cool and.

[00:08:15] Eric Robinson: I got through and here I am. My degree was in religion.

[00:08:18] David: very good. So now that you've given that great advice, the next step obviously is the application process. And I remember when I did my SF 86. Okay. Which back when I did it, it was, I wrote it out in pencil. Okay. Now it's all online. Okay.

[00:08:38] Eric Robinson: Same.

[00:08:39] David: Okay.

[00:08:39] Eric Robinson: Same here. ~Same here.~

[00:08:40] David: that was a long packet. ~Um,~ now it's

[00:08:44] Eric Robinson: Yep.

[00:08:44] David: of course.

[00:08:45] David: So take applicant right now, and all my listeners are listening right now. Take the applicant from the packet the way to the final, almost the final process. Go [00:09:00] ahead.

[00:09:00] Eric Robinson: Yeah. So if you go through in the applicant coordinator in the division where you're. Processing out of, and there'll be somewhere you're associated with, you'll meet with this person. If you get through and get selected, then you move on to the next step. And the next step will be to take the phase one test, which is like an SAT, ~you know.~

[00:09:21] Eric Robinson: ~It's when I took it, I,~ I finished and I'm a pretty smart guy, but I finished that and went, ~well, I~ took a shot, ~you know,~ and then they called me back and I said, really? Okay. ~Uh, so~ that's one. I don't know that there's much, you can study for ~it,~ but just have that knowledge. You'll go through that ~and~ then.

[00:09:36] Eric Robinson: The next step will be the phase two, which is, ~uh,~ the ~interview~ process. And that's one. After I had passed phase one, I got to phase two. Then ~I thought, okay,~ now ~I'm,~ I'm in control. I can, I can talk to things, I can speak about this. And the phase two process generally, and this is not giving anything away, is how have you handled situations?

[00:09:58] Eric Robinson: So what [00:10:00] was the event, what did you do? And then what was the outcome of that? And for me, I spent a couple months talking to my wife and saying, Hey, when was the time I dealt with a hardship? When was a time I failed? Can you think of something I've done? And, and so I studied me and I had note cards and I had probably 25 of them.

[00:10:25] Eric Robinson: Of the general time, what I had to overcome or do at that time. And then what came from that. And I studied those so that when I was asked, as we sit down in a panel of three, four agents, you have 15 questions and I think you have an hour or you have 45 minutes, and if you run out of time, then you only answer 12 questions.

[00:10:48] Eric Robinson: But then I was able to not stumble. So when asked, ~you know,~ what's something that you've done that you're proud of, I can go. In 1997, I trained for a marathon and here's [00:11:00] what I did to get ready for it and here's the results. And I could, okay, that one's off. And moving on to the next. So that's, ~uh,~ a verbal interview and I'm pretty sure they still do the, ~uh,~ then a written, you get a, a scenario and you write out how, how would you handle this?

[00:11:17] Eric Robinson: So that's then evaluated and you're gonna move on then to the FIT test. And that's where I came in because I was a fitness coordinator, and so I got to see applicants coming through. And the FIT test is the easiest. Because the answers are online and, and you can study and you can say, oh, this is open book.

[00:11:40] Eric Robinson: ~I,~ I can ace this. And that is, ~uh,~ pullups or chin-ups. Now it's then a sprint and then pushups, and then a mile and a half run, and you have to get a minimum score. We used to do sit-ups, now it's back to [00:12:00] pull-ups, which are very difficult. So,

[00:12:02] David: you get,

[00:12:02] Eric Robinson: ~you know,~

[00:12:02] David: get a,

[00:12:03] Eric Robinson: especially for women.

[00:12:04] David: you don't do well, or is it just a pass or fail?

[00:12:07] Eric Robinson: Yeah, you get a retest and there's a certain number of times that you. Are allowed to do that. And then if you can't, then you're put off for, I think it's a year that you can reapply. But I saw so many ~agents,~ applicants come and, ~you know,~ because you can test at home and all the protocol is online. ~You know,~ if you can do the pull-ups, if you can do the pushups, if you can run enough and yet every time, ~uh,~ maybe a third would pass and.

[00:12:36] Eric Robinson: And that's disappointing because in the field it's not supposed to be this way, but in the field there's a little more leniency. Even when you get to Quantico, ~uh, you know,~ I remember doing my pushups and I maxed out my pushups, and then the second time I took the test, I did like 40 because they said, Nope, nope, nope.

[00:12:55] Eric Robinson: ~I,~ I'm like, ~I,~ I'm touching the, I'm touching the ground. Like I can't come down any further. So [00:13:00] they'll be harder on you sometimes just to mess with you. And, ~uh,~ you, you need to be ready in, in that. So you go through that and then you open up to the background and then people start going around and following up on that long SF 86, which is everywhere you've worked, everywhere you've lived, neighbors, family, ~uh,~ referrals, bosses, and they're trying to find out are there issues that have come up in your life that.

[00:13:29] Eric Robinson: Are derogatory, they're gonna hold against you. And then the final is the polygraph. And that's the worst.

[00:13:35] David: talk about that right now for all the people. All the people that listen to my podcast. So prior to you taking all those tests in passing, and then they give you that phone call or that letter saying that the next phase now is the polygraph. Have you ever taken one prior to the ~uh,~ FBI? Okay.

[00:13:57] Eric Robinson: Nope, never,

[00:13:59] David: [00:14:00] Feeling or your knowledge prior to you taking one?

[00:14:04] Eric Robinson: ~uh,~ apprehension because I'd lived a clean life, but I didn't know ~like~ what? ~You know what, what~ else might be asked? ~I, you know,~ I had an idea like, Hey, did you lie? ~You know,~ have you stolen, ~you know,~ did you tell the truth when you took, ~you know,~ when you put on here, you haven't done drugs. ~Um,~ the national security ones that, ~you know,~ that was fine.

[00:14:24] Eric Robinson: Oddly enough, we went over the national security. Are you, ~um, you know,~ an agent of a foreign government or have you had contact with foreign government? Oddly enough, that's the one that came back on a couple of times. ~And then, and~ then I thought, oh, okay, well then this is easy because that one ~I,~ I'm absolutely clean on.

[00:14:42] Eric Robinson: ~Um,~ I'm not even thinking like, oh, well I had a roommate who smoked pot and I smelled it, and that's why I'm nervous. No, nobody has contacted me for foreign government. So then I ended up passing that, but that was about two hours and my pants were soaked when I was done.

[00:14:56] David: correct? Absolutely.

[00:14:58] Eric Robinson: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:59] David: you [00:15:00] went in to take your test, obviously, did you feel somewhat confident in the examiner that was giving you, or was he or she, ~uh,~ a, a dickhead or was she nice or He nice. ~Were were,~ were they respectful to you?

[00:15:14] Eric Robinson: Well, again, this is 25 years ago, and I've got a good friend who, who is a polygrapher for the FBI and I can talk with him. I've had a couple friends as polygraphers and, ~uh,~ I think things have changed a bit. Yeah, this guy was right on the edge of being a dickhead. ~Um,~ he, he was, and I understand like your, your role is not just to confirm, but also to question and, and possibly find those who are trying to skirt through.

[00:15:41] Eric Robinson: And I felt like he was, ~you know,~ 75% trying to say, let's, let's see what you're hiding here, son. And. I think things have changed since then where ~my,~ my impression talking to my buddies is like, we're gonna assume that these things are correct. We're just gonna make sure [00:16:00] you're not lying as oppo. It's less antagonistic.

[00:16:02] David: verify, verifying what you say. And back then,

[00:16:07] Eric Robinson: Yeah.

[00:16:08] David: you did it so many years ago, it was more or less different and the technology is a lot better now.

[00:16:14] Eric Robinson: Yeah. And it could have been that guy too. But, ~you know, I,~ when I came through, I heard stories like, ~you know,~ I had one friend named Rebecca who, who a classmate who had the same name as someone on her same street who had stolen money, and they just wouldn't believe her. And she said she had to take the polygraph three times and ~like, you know,~ that's, that's tough.

[00:16:36] David: what I'm trying to get at for the, my listeners is, is even though you were nervous, you still passed your test,

[00:16:43] Eric Robinson: Yes. Yeah, because I was telling the truth and there were times where he is like, Hey, have you ever stolen anything? I said, yeah. ~You know,~ when I was at work, I, you know, took a champagne flute home from the restaurant and stole it and like, okay. Anything else? No.

[00:16:58] David: that's, that's what I'm trying to get at. You were[00:17:00] 

[00:17:00] Eric Robinson: Yeah,

[00:17:02] David: after

[00:17:02] Eric Robinson: I was honest.

[00:17:03] David: test, what is the next phase?

[00:17:05] Eric Robinson: Then we're waiting for opening for, uh, classes at Quantico. And my understanding is anymore, it's, it's fairly quick. And in some cases I was asked as a fit coordinator to say, Hey, can you retest this guy? 'cause you have to test within, I think, 60 days of going to Quantico. So I can't, I can't take the FIT test today.

[00:17:26] Eric Robinson: And then the process takes, process, takes a year and a half, and I'm outta shape. So we gotta retest, make sure you pass. And they're like, Hey, there's a class coming up in, in two weeks. Can you test this guy within the next week? So I'm waiting for the open spot and then they tell me, and

[00:17:41] David: And

[00:17:41] Eric Robinson: off you go.

[00:17:42] David: the Academy at Quantico? Roughly

[00:17:46] Eric Robinson: ~It,~ it was four months for me and it's kind of ~it,~ it's gotten longer and then cut back a little bit. But I think generally four months now.

[00:17:53] David: The one question I have is, once you graduate, ~uh,~ the academy [00:18:00] and you're now a special agent, is it like police officers that graduate from the academy? Do you, once you get assigned to, ~um.~ A headquarters or field office, do you get a FTO field training officer, or is it because you're so, I guess, illegally trained?

[00:18:21] David: Do you get in a case immediately and then they just watch over you? Or do you actually get a field training officer?

[00:18:30] Eric Robinson: ~Well, it'll,~ it'll be both. You get a ~training,~ training agent and it, ~you know,~ it always depends. ~I,~ I had a training agent. My squad, it was a drug squad in Chicago and I just learned from, we're on the go. We had two senior agents, maybe three who ~like,~ who had some experience and the rest, like the other seven of us were still on probation.

[00:18:52] Eric Robinson: And so when I came off probation, ~uh, you know,~ I finished everything in my blue book. Everything you had to. [00:19:00] Check off and he said, Hey, do you want Frank to say anything? And I said, the only thing Frank's gonna say is I was Eric's training agent. And that's exactly what he said. And ~I,~ so you come in and you're expected to be able to contribute and even lead cases, but ~yeah, you know,~ it's understood.

[00:19:15] Eric Robinson: You're still learning how to do things and we're gonna help out. That being said, 24 years in, I was asking new agents for suggestions, they've got good ideas, they've got tools given to them that I didn't have guys know contacts, websites that we can use. So there's always learning from the other agents.

[00:19:39] Eric Robinson: They're very professional, hopefully diverse, and they've had contacts and run-ins with people. You go, Hey man, I need somebody who knows how to look into this. And they go, oh, I got a buddy who came outta the academy and he's in St. Louis division. Let me give 'em a call. And ~you know,~ there you go.

[00:19:56] David: In reference to once you graduate. Just like [00:20:00] when officers graduate, ~uh,~ the academy, they're immediately placed in a patrol car and they're patrol officers. How does it work with the FBI? Do you, once you graduate, do you ask what division you wanna work in? Such as do you say, I wanna work in child exploitation cases, I wanna work drugs, or I wanna work fraud?

[00:20:23] David: I mean, how does it work? Or is it based on the agency's, ~you know,~ openings or, or their needs.

[00:20:31] Eric Robinson: Yeah, that's, so I came in and I had experience, I studied Islam and so ~I,~ I think that probably was, ~I.~ One of the reasons I got hired, because this was just after nine 11, I was in the process during nine 11, and then when I got to Chicago, oh, they needed drug squad bodies. So

[00:20:51] David: Okay.

[00:20:51] Eric Robinson: I worked drugs and then I worked all criminal for 15 years.

[00:20:56] Eric Robinson: So ~you can make a,~ you can make an ask, but it really has very [00:21:00] little to do with the violation that you get assigned. More than likely. And from my experience watching this on the other side, I had, ~uh,~ a couple of ASACs assistant special agents in charge. So ~their,~ their second level from the guy who leads the division, and we had openings on our squad that needed filled.

[00:21:20] Eric Robinson: And so. To fill those positions. My asac would then be talking with, ~um,~ human resources and saying, Hey, who do we have that's graduating? Let me see their bio, what their abilities are. I'm gonna talk to a few people. And then they were getting selected to fill that. If that's not done, then it's just a roll of dice.

[00:21:41] Eric Robinson: Hey Joey, you got St. Louis. You get to St. Louis. And they're like, Hey, we're short on the gang squad. Boom. There you go. You're working gangs. And, but the great thing about the FBI is, you can always move. You can always say, I want to transfer to do healthcare fraud 'cause I'm tired of these long hours. I, I wanna work [00:22:00] banker's hours.

[00:22:01] Eric Robinson: Or you say, I've got an interest in counterintelligence counter-terrorism. Put it in,

[00:22:05] David: I

[00:22:06] Eric Robinson: see what happens.

[00:22:07] David: ~Uh,~ that's what I was gonna ask. ~That, that's, that's~ great. So basically you can't get bored in the agency.

[00:22:13] Eric Robinson: Well, you can, but you can find other things, ~you know?~ And I've got one colleague who's worked drug cases probably for 25 years, and that would just destroy me. But he's got the machine going and he just cranks it. He knows how to do it. He does a great job at it and. We will do it until he retires, which will be soon.

[00:22:32] Eric Robinson: ~The,~ the one very, very positive change that the FBI has had since I came in, and this is fairly recent. When we came in, you could not go back to your processing office. So ~you know,~ if I'm living in the Cleveland area and I press process outta Cleveland, I'm going anywhere but Cleveland unless it was New York, LA or Puerto Rico.

[00:22:54] Eric Robinson: And the reasoning was if you go back, you might be open to [00:23:00] influence and corruption unless you're from la, New York or Puerto Rico. But this has since changed where beforehand you say, I would like to go to back to Cleveland. And they'll consider that. And it's much more likely that you get to go back home.

[00:23:18] Eric Robinson: Now if they, if you process outta Cleveland, you say, I want to go back, and they go, yeah, we really don't have openings. We're gonna send you St. Louis. You can then choose whether or not you want to continue. If you're gonna take this job, but then have to go to St. Louis, I had, ~uh,~ a buddy, a task force officer who worked for the Canton, Ohio Police Department, and he was with the FBI, but, ~you know,~ working with us from Canton pd, he became an agent and he went right back to the squad that he was working on before working the same cases.

[00:23:49] Eric Robinson: So that, that is really positive that people can go right back home.

[00:23:54] David: whole family anymore, so that's good

[00:23:57] Eric Robinson: Yeah. Your spouse doesn't have to get a new job. You don't have [00:24:00] to worry about selling the house. So that happens decently now.

[00:24:05] David: answer this. I've always been curious when you, meaning the FBI, when there's a case, whether it's major or something that could go federal and there is a joint investigation. Who makes the ultimate decision sometimes where the FBI says, we're going to take it over, or they're gonna say, no, we're just going to help you and assist you with whatever you need.

[00:24:35] David: It's still your case. Or they say, Nope, back off. We have all of it and we'll call you when we need you. makes that ultimate decision on what cases or, or why?

[00:24:49] Eric Robinson: ~Yeah, that's, you know,~ it may go up if there's an argument all the way up to our special agent in charge, talking to their chief of police and arranging it. It's a discussion with [00:25:00] prosecutors. Sometimes it could just be you and me, like, I'm working with you. You're a cop, I'm FBI, and you just say ahead of time.

[00:25:06] Eric Robinson: Hey man. You we'll definitely hit 'em harder with federal charges. Let's just keep it fed. That's fine. There were times where I just went straight state charges where I know that my task force officer with the PD can get a search warrant today, it'll take him two, three hours. So let's just do this. And then there's times where we hit him with the state warrant, but we're keeping ~a, a, a sister, a, a~ lateral case open federally, and, ~oh, you know what?~

[00:25:33] Eric Robinson: He's got child pornography on his phone. Boom, let's, let's just take this all over to fed. 'cause it's easier that way. And I typically, there's not much of an argument. Everybody agrees, we're just gonna get the job done. Cops just want to get the job done. FBI doesn't care. Like ~I'll, I'll stat, I'll get,~ I'll get a pat on the back no matter what.

[00:25:52] Eric Robinson: ~I don't,~ I don't care if it's a federal case, let's just get it done. So usually at this level, ~every,~ everybody's fine.

[00:25:58] David: sense now. [00:26:00] In reference to, and I don't want you to give any secrets, and I know you wouldn't. In reference to counterintelligence, tell the listeners one, what ~it means~ what you as an ~investigator~ and what the FBI does to protect the ~citizens and this~ country in reference to counterintelligence.

[00:26:20] Eric Robinson: Well, I, I work counter terrorism counterintelligence is, and you know, I dabbled in that too because my informants had, uh, regularly were giving me, uh, foreign. Positive foreign intelligence. So they're giving me information from overseas about movements that could influence the us. But you know, and I was regularly trying to get involvement from other agencies like the CIA because they have different things they can do.

[00:26:47] Eric Robinson: They can, they can work in that country and then they're coming to me to say, Hey, do you have people that we can work together? So the counterintelligence is, it, it's [00:27:00] less of a criminal case because a lot of times guys don't get charged. It is more of a, a, a surveillance of a watching, of a noticing what other state actors are trying to gain or sabotage with the US and then the counter-terrorism.

[00:27:18] Eric Robinson: That is us looking for individuals within our area of responsibility who are looking to carry out violence or are giving. Support in some way to, um, terrorist organizations. And so that could be finding out what's going on overseas, but most of all it's just trying to insinuate informants into areas where there may, may be somebody who is a, a bad actor.

[00:27:44] David: part that you were working, is that more with local? Um, crimes or can it be global?

[00:27:55] Eric Robinson: It it can be both. Uh, so, you know, we can have an, an [00:28:00] Iranian student who comes to the US or a Chinese professor who comes to the US and we have belief that they are trying to gain knowledge of other, um. Uh, mechanisms or, you know, they're, they're trying to develop things in China that the US has and steal that technology.

[00:28:23] Eric Robinson: So that could be right here at a local university. It could be someone in that area. And then I also had an informant who got us on the phone of one of Putin's propagandists, you know, so now that's overseas, but we're collecting on that to see. And nobody other than my informant touched this in our area of responsibility.

[00:28:48] Eric Robinson: So it could be both. Uh, you know, a lot of times it, it is actors who may be assets of foreign states here in [00:29:00] our area. And then occasionally we can start opening up stuff of like, Hey, let's get on this guy's phone who is in Africa even, and might be talking to agents in the Chinese governments. Like this, this benefits.

[00:29:15] Eric Robinson: That's a great thing about the FBI. This benefits the United States of America, so we can do it

[00:29:21] David: Right.

[00:29:21] Eric Robinson: we are.

[00:29:22] David: That's amazing. Now let's talk about being on the elite FBI SWAT team. Was it you wanting or were you recruited onto team?

[00:29:35] Eric Robinson: No, it, we'll, we'll recruit to some degree of saying, Hey, you should try out. In fact, uh, the team has tryouts coming here in a couple weeks. We will. Ah, I'd love to. They're the, those guys are the best. I just, I was getting texts from those them today, you know, showing them at, out, at breakfast after a hit.

[00:29:54] Eric Robinson: I'm like, ah, I miss that. I, what I don't miss is getting up at one 30 in [00:30:00] the morning to have to travel across state to prepare and everything. But, uh, yeah, it, it's, it is, it is elite. And so in the Cleveland division where I worked and I was on the team for a short time in Chicago as well. They, you know, the tryouts are hard in Cleveland.

[00:30:20] Eric Robinson: Our tryouts, if this was the hardest thing you've ever done, you might need to go out and get some more experience at things. But there's some, there's some divisions who, you know, met guys out regularly. So it, it was something that I wanted to do. I think I was 40 when I got on the team, so, you know.

[00:30:41] Eric Robinson: Here's me being on the team for 15 years and there's guys on the team who I could legitimately have had as, as a son. And so I'd ask him like, Hey, what's your mom's name again? Because I might've taken her to prom and you know, you've got green [00:31:00] eyes. I, you know, I mean these. And so, you know, a lot of them would look up to me and I would look to them to like, help me carry the load.

[00:31:07] Eric Robinson: 'cause I'm an older guy. So it, it was the best of camaraderie.

[00:31:12] David: um, the SWAT team worked with the hostage negotiation team, correct?

[00:31:18] Eric Robinson: Hand in hand. Hand in hand. So when, when you look at and watch, you know, great Netflix series documentary on Waco,

[00:31:26] David: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:27] Eric Robinson: and CNT, and they're just opposing each other. They, they'd probably rather hurt each other than the Branch Davidians. That's completely changed, which is a benefit to the FBI mission. So years ago, negotiators, you know, were, you're just like, Hey, you're on call.

[00:31:48] Eric Robinson: SWAT has a hit tomorrow. Make sure you have your phone. And so you sleep in and nobody calls you, and so you're fine. Then negotiators started being. In a vehicle [00:32:00] nearby, ready, ready to respond on scene. So that's great. So they'd get up early in the morning and then just go home. And now we have typically at least two negotiators with us in the armored Bearcat or, and or in another vehicle too.

[00:32:14] Eric Robinson: And they're starting with the knock and announced, which comes over an LADA PA system. And so they're announcing our presence while we can get in place, the timing is coordinated with our te, with our team leader, our TL of like, Hey guys, gotta bound to the backside. So hold off on the call now. And then others are depending on the case, making calls in.

[00:32:37] Eric Robinson: Got gotten from Intel analysts of decent numbers to find the subject, the mom girlfriend calling them, calling in and setting up the house for us. Do you have any dogs? Do you have any weapons? Put the dog in a bathroom, get the kids dressed, come on out. We are the FBI and we work together perfectly. They, I, you know, [00:33:00] I had many buddies on the, uh, crisis negotiating team and you know, once we finish, you know, I'd say you're the MVP today because we did nothing.

[00:33:08] Eric Robinson: You know, you're the one who got him out of the house and we arrested him and left. You know, so you're the most valuable.

[00:33:14] David: the ears and, uh, of, of the team. I mean, I was a negotiator and I went to your schools and absolutely that's how it works. And, uh, if it's not for a congenial team, it, it can go really bad.

[00:33:29] Eric Robinson: Well, and, and we had one situation where we had a, a barricaded subject. It was a, a woman on a mental break with a gun and a 10-year-old son. And she wasn't threatening the son, but she also wasn't coming out. And she said anybody who comes in would have to bring body bags. So we cleared the apartment, we're down the hall, we had a quick reaction team of about eight ready to go with everybody else, set up around to distract or make other entries.

[00:33:59] Eric Robinson: And [00:34:00] now we're set. And now we sit here and the negotiators have it. And it was fascinating to watch them act. They were in charge and they're, you know, checking in with our TL of like, Hey, she's saying this, but it was their game until it was time for us to then make a move. And I felt very comfortable with that.

[00:34:19] Eric Robinson: It was, they're doing their job. They're excellent at it.

[00:34:22] David: I love when I was on team, I, I loved working with swat. It was great. You know, and like you said, when it comes to the point where there's no more communication. And then you turn it over to the SWAT guys and they do their job and it, it's amazing watching the SWAT guys work. That that's what's amazing too.

[00:34:41] David: So, I I, I'll never forget when they used, you know, I'm a

[00:34:46] Eric Robinson: Yep.

[00:34:46] David: guy, so he is like, you know, hey, let's bring, uh, and my nickname was Goldie, so let's go bring Goldie up. And they would bring me right up to the very front, you know, and talk to these guys or girls. And, uh, then when it was time for them, [00:35:00] it's like, bring me back out.

[00:35:01] David: And it was their, their, their time.

[00:35:04] Eric Robinson: Yeah. In the case with this barricaded subject, you know, this was, we had two female negotiators at the time, and they were agents and so they're armed and they, they have ballistic vests, but ~you know,~ here's a SWAT guy, ~you know,~ standing with this rifle to cover while she's yelling down the hallway, trying to, ~you know,~ talk back and forth, ~you know,~ we're ready.

[00:35:22] Eric Robinson: Feeling a little bit like big brother, but also knowing, ~you know,~ she's capable. It's just that, ~you know,~ she's tied up with this. I'm ready to do my job too if it

[00:35:30] David: Yeah.

[00:35:31] Eric Robinson: comes to that.

[00:35:31] David: you guys train together all the time. Pretty amazing.

[00:35:35] Eric Robinson: Yeah.

[00:35:37] David: All right. ~Um, I~

[00:35:38] Eric Robinson: me miss him.

[00:35:39] David: the, the tryouts are next week or whatever, so maybe you can just go down there and, ~uh,~ watch it. I'm sure you're, you can, well,

[00:35:46] Eric Robinson: I will.

[00:35:47] David: your, ~um,~ story is really, really what made you number two, and we're gonna make you number one, and that's why everyone wants you on, on the, their podcast show. So I want [00:36:00] you to the listeners and audience what made you get into law enforcement. But before I let you say, I'm gonna tell the audience this. Most people, ladies and gentlemen. Who get into law enforcement, get into law enforcement because they have a passion. They want to help people and they want to be the good guy over the bad guy, cops and robbers. And after they do their stint in law enforcement, they find a calling and after they get out of law enforcement, they go into the path that Eric took prior to law enforcement. I would say that Eric is, and I would say I've done some research, he's probably a one percenter who took this path from where he began. And he went in where, like I said, the [00:37:00] individuals go from law enforcement and then they take that path and they do what he did. ~Um, first, so~ Eric, the floor is all yours once again. And tell the listeners what you did prior that then you had, I guess, a epiphany, a calling or whatever that made you want to get into law enforcement. I.

[00:37:22] Eric Robinson: Yeah, ~usually I, I, I'll do,~ I used to do training for other agencies and, and police departments and after I told a few, ~uh,~ jokes about their moms and had a few swears thrown in there and they got a sense for me, we get to the end and I'd have ~a,~ an FBI patch, and I'd say everybody gets one guess of what I did before I got in the FBI.

[00:37:41] Eric Robinson: And we go around and, ~you know,~ people wouldn't get it. And then I would tell them I was a Baptist pastor before I got into the FBII preached in my Baptist church on Easter of 2002, and the next Sunday I was in Quantico, Virginia. And then the Sunday after that, I [00:38:00] preached in Quantico, Virginia because they didn't have a chaplain.

[00:38:03] David: Amazing. And so how long were you a pastor?

[00:38:08] Eric Robinson: ~Uh, so first off,~ way to bury the lead. So 40 minutes in and then you reveal, Hey, this guy was a pastor. ~I,~ I spent about a dozen years in Christian ministry and ~I,~ I took the usual route of, I was first involved with the campus ministry and then, ~uh,~ my wife and I were going to go overseas to work with Muslims.

[00:38:28] Eric Robinson: Which is what my training was in. And I think the FBI goes, that you'd be great. And then they stuck me with drugs, which was fine. ~Um, uh,~ and then I became ~an, uh,~ a youth pastor and then an assistant pastor. And then the church I was with in western New York said, Hey, we'd like to plant a church off of ours.

[00:38:43] Eric Robinson: And I said, absolutely. That's what I'd love to do. And so we planted a church and that was meant to be one that reached out to people who wouldn't feel comfortable in church. And so I told that core group that we started with, I don't wanna just be bringing in [00:39:00] Christians from other churches. I want people to come who might want to find out about God, but.

[00:39:06] Eric Robinson: Feel like they're being judged or they don't like the atmosphere. We want to make this fully welcoming, and if we err on anything, let's err on the side of grace. Let God judge us for being too kind and loving. And we did that and it worked very well, and people were coming in. And then after a time, I found that I was unable to separate other people's burdens from my own.

[00:39:33] Eric Robinson: And so when they would come to me with their problems, which was natural, when you're have a church of outreach and people who weren't raised in church are coming, they would bring their problems with them. And ~I,~ I carried those. And so for every day, for two years, I had a stress related headache every single day.

[00:39:54] Eric Robinson: I finally told my wife, ~I,~ I have to do something else. And so I [00:40:00] applied for two jobs. One I was overqualified for and they turned me down and another one I was underqualified for. And they say, yeah, that sounds great. And the day that I was told I had made it into the FBI, my headache stopped. So that was pretty much a cue that that was the right choice.

[00:40:19] David: that your training and your experience as a pastor helped you? In everything you did in the FBII,

[00:40:38] Eric Robinson: Yeah. So in what you do,

[00:40:40] David: and

[00:40:41] Eric Robinson: right? Right. Well, absolutely. But ~like, you know.~ That, ~you know,~ so we have databases and ~you know, I've, you know,~ I've worked with kids who are so much smarter than me in certain fields, but eventually you have to do this eventually, all those techniques that the FBI has break down to, I have to [00:41:00] get involved with human beings.

[00:41:02] Eric Robinson: And so your polygraph machine can be the best one ever created. But if you're a shit interviewer, it tell you you're not getting anywhere. And so, absolutely. And I, I guarantee you, I, I, if I had my wallet on me, I'd lay it down a hundred dollars that you have told people before that they treat you like a priest.

[00:41:25] Eric Robinson: Like it's a confession. There's my hundred. I mean, people talk to you as if they're like, well, this is between us. Right? ~You know,~ like, have you ever done anything? And committed any crime that no one's caught you on. You're like, well, I can tell him it's safe. And, and so yeah, that, that personal interaction was absolutely something that helped me out, not just in the, the human interaction, and we can talk about that, but just in being open to.

[00:41:58] Eric Robinson: ~Um,~ how to deal with [00:42:00] cases because when I preach the Bible, okay, everybody there in the audience is like, yeah, that's the truth. And so I had that to lean on. And then when I come with the evidence and the facts and the results of the search warrant and recorded meetings, it's the same. It's, it's the Bible truth.

[00:42:17] Eric Robinson: I have this, and now I'm using those same techniques to work with you. Like I, I'm, I'm trying to convince you how to use this in your life. And in this case it's

[00:42:28] David: Right.

[00:42:29] Eric Robinson: ~Uh,~ but, but also like I have this almost objective truth that I can bring to you. And yeah, it definitely was a factor.

[00:42:39] David: like you just said, it's personality, it's empathetic, it's showing that you, everyone, like I tell everyone in my polygraphs, everyone's different and you know that, and you've seen, and I'm sure you've seen investigators, a special agents, everyone has a different personality. That's what makes everyone an individual. However, [00:43:00] everyone has a story to tell. Even criminals have a story to tell, okay? Everyone wants to be heard, everyone, and when you have the other person on the other side of that desk or table or chair or wherever you're sitting, they want to be heard because sometimes those individuals have never, ever, ever been heard in their life. And when you give them that opportunity of a lifetime, whether they've made that ultimate mistake, they killed someone, molested a child, sold massive amounts of drugs, counter, you know, intelligence, terrorism, whatever, even though they've done that bad that does not always mean that they're a bad person or they're, and I always tell them that always.

[00:43:48] Eric Robinson: Yep. And, and there's two kinds of, there's two kinds of criminals. There's the ones who they're, they're gonna go to jail because they committed a crime. And there's the ones who are, they're gonna go to jail because they committed a crime [00:44:00] and they're an asshole. So, ~I, you know, I can,~ I can deal with these people, ~you know, like,~ yeah.

[00:44:04] Eric Robinson: This is how you are. So whether it's the, the pedophile who ~I,~ I had a guy make a confession before we got into the second room clearing the house. ~You know,~ pedophiles, they may hold back because they know what's coming. That it's, it's a significant penalty and a change of life. But many of them are the easiest because they feel guilt and shame already.

[00:44:28] Eric Robinson: And then there's others who will confess. I had a guy who was a, ~uh,~ white supremacist, and we were confronting him because he was making threats online against public figures. So he'd been online for years, ~you know,~ just railing against all these terrible people. And here comes the FBI. He hates us more than anybody else.

[00:44:49] Eric Robinson: We were part of Biden's, DOJ. And I come to him and I say, look man, you got a job. Your boss tells you what to do. We got a job. You've been [00:45:00] making threats. DOJ tells us we have to do this. I, you understand, we're like this. And rather than hate, I mean, he still hated us, but rather than work on that, he had been railing against the government for years.

[00:45:12] Eric Robinson: And here's the government

[00:45:14] David: Right.

[00:45:15] Eric Robinson: his office, ~he,~ he finally gets to say this face to face. And so when I ask him like, did you mean that as a threat against, ~uh,~ vice President Biden? He says, you're damn right. I meant it as a threat. The guy should die. And like that, this was his chance because he got nothing by posting on Facebook.

[00:45:34] Eric Robinson: But now he could tell the government exactly what he felt.

[00:45:38] David: him that platform, right?

[00:45:40] Eric Robinson: Absolutely.

[00:45:41] David: platform, but you're giving

[00:45:42] Eric Robinson: And it's

[00:45:43] David: talk.

[00:45:43] Eric Robinson: the public

[00:45:44] David: Right.

[00:45:45] Eric Robinson: Got him nowhere. ~You know,~ this is at least something different and, and I'm not condemning him for it. ~I, you know,~ while he's saying this, I go, yeah, I get it. Our prosecutor said it, she listened to the recording of, ~of our,~ the interview and she goes, you seem like [00:46:00] you agreed with him an awful lot.

[00:46:01] Eric Robinson: And I like, do you understand rapport building?

[00:46:04] David: I think, and ~you know,~ you just, you just said that rapport, ~you know,~ in crisis negotiations, that's, that there's a level, ~you know,~ and it's building rapport, building using empathy, all that good stuff. And, and is, is when you talk to someone, you're not saying, and you're not, you're not agreeing with the, their ideology.

[00:46:26] David: Okay. You're not, you're not saying, oh yeah, I wanna kill him too. Or you're saying Yeah. You're, you're, you're talking to them on the, their, their level. talking and you're not talking down to them. Because what happens with a lot of people in, in everyone, ~what, what's~ the first thing that why people shut down is that's because they're being judged. Judge someone,

[00:46:50] Eric Robinson: Yeah. And, and, and that's how I built our church. You're coming in the door. I don't want, ~you know,~ I don't want somebody looking at you and [00:47:00] like that, that's how you dress for church. And I didn't say it, but ~you,~ you could tell it on my face. ~I,~ here I am. Like, I get it. I get it. These guys can be a real pain.

[00:47:08] Eric Robinson: You're like, yep. That, that can make me angry too. He can tell me these things without me saying, well, you understand, like, things like that are a problem. ~You know,~ I'm not opposing him. I'm being very open. Have you ever had someone, ~uh,~ who you know is not telling the truth and rather than stopping them, you're like, let's see where this goes.

[00:47:29] Eric Robinson: Tell me more lies.

[00:47:31] David: Hundred percent.

[00:47:33] Eric Robinson: Well, ~because,~ 'cause now you know what they're thinking. ~Now,~ now you're open. So ~I,~ I want to be curious. ~You know,~ you're telling me that you didn't kill your neighbor. Okay, well tell me more about that. 'cause I have evidence that you do, but I'm not gonna say that. Tell me more about that.

[00:47:47] Eric Robinson: Rather than shutting you down and say, I know you did it. So now he's telling me, like, he came at me with a rake and I, all I did was push him away. And then he felt like, okay, so now I'm, now I'm [00:48:00] actually maybe getting some truth in this. But that curiousness openness, refusing to judge and shut people down, that was ministry.

[00:48:10] Eric Robinson: If I, if you come to me and say, ~you know,~ I, I've been cheating on my wife, and I just go to the Bible and I say, here's why, why you're a sinner and it's wrong. You didn't know that in the first place.

[00:48:20] David: you have a nickname

[00:48:22] Eric Robinson: So yeah, let me be open.

[00:48:24] David: pastor, or Preacher.

[00:48:26] Eric Robinson: I was preacher

[00:48:27] David: figured that

[00:48:28] Eric Robinson: and, and also I went from preacher

[00:48:30] David: I,

[00:48:31] Eric Robinson: preacher

[00:48:32] David: I, I was gonna

[00:48:32] Eric Robinson: 'cause I broke in the doors.

[00:48:34] David: on the, ~uh,~ SWAT team?

[00:48:35] Eric Robinson: Yes. And if you want to know, that's the best feeling in the world to break in a door.

[00:48:41] David: did wanna know that,

[00:48:42] Eric Robinson: Oh

[00:48:43] David: you gotta step

[00:48:43] Eric Robinson: yeah. And so. ~Yeah.~ And so there's a coordination. Everybody's like, oh, it's just a meathead job. But there's a lot that goes into it. And, and I would tell people, so we taught a, every year we have a breaching school at the Ohio Tactical Officers Association [00:49:00] Conference. Very well attended. Everybody loved it.

[00:49:02] Eric Robinson: And I was leading this, and I tell people, if you're the breacher, you're the most important person on the team because if you don't get the door open, the job doesn't get done. Also, you're the least valuable because here you are at the door with just a ram, ~you know,~ gun at your side, and that's it. You gotta know how to get that open and out of the way.

[00:49:23] Eric Robinson: A,

[00:49:23] David: Breachers, do you guys also learn how to use explosives as well?

[00:49:27] Eric Robinson: yeah. The FBI doesn't let us use explosives.

[00:49:31] David: So they didn't teach you how to do any of that? That's pretty sad.

[00:49:34] Eric Robinson: No, we, we have our bomb tax and they'll do some things, but it, we have a, ~uh,~ boom breach on the ballistic bearcat. So unfortunately, like 75% of our breaches were just, and it kept everybody safe just coming up and pushing the door in. ~Um,~ and then there's times where terrain wouldn't allow for it. ~Um,~ distance wouldn't allow for it.

[00:49:55] Eric Robinson: And then we're going through other means to port a window, get a drone [00:50:00] inside, have that drone looking out from the door. Okay, you're clear to move up Now there's not somebody behind it with a shotgun. Hit it, fall back, ~you know,~ and further clear the house

[00:50:09] David: reference to the, ~uh,~ SWAT teams, there are SWAT teams in every division or ~every, every, um.~

[00:50:16] Eric Robinson: Yep.

[00:50:16] David: Every division

[00:50:17] Eric Robinson: division.

[00:50:18] David: are there travel SWAT teams as well that have that travel?

[00:50:23] Eric Robinson: ~Uh,~ so we have our hostage rescue team, which will tr travel wherever, and, and they've shown up to supplement if we've got, ~uh,~ a large takedown with, ~you know,~ 15 gang members and they're all dangerous. Otherwise, in Cleveland, we'd help out Detroit, Cincinnati, Buffalo, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh. So again, they've got 15 guys to take down.

[00:50:44] Eric Robinson: They might have a local team. They've got their team split to take two guys, and they need us to, you know, take a follow on too. So we, we did a decent bit of traveling in our, in our locus there.

[00:50:56] David: And then you also worked with local law enforcement [00:51:00] to.

[00:51:00] Eric Robinson: Yeah. Yeah, we would have them on board sometimes and occasionally they would ask us for assistance. But for the most part, ~like you,~ you know how it is. ~If, if you, if~ you put the work in, you wanna have the fun too. So they usually did whatever they could to be the ones that got to do the damage.

[00:51:15] David: Now that I've made you really miss it, I'm sure. ~Um,~ I know

[00:51:19] Eric Robinson: I.

[00:51:20] David: I know how it is. you retired obviously, and you, to me to be number two, I don't think you've retired much 'cause you've been on every podcast imaginable. What have you really, really missed other than the, the action of swat? What have you missed the most other than the comradery, ~um,~ from the FBI?

[00:51:42] Eric Robinson: So ~I,~ I was talking to a buddy be before I retired, and he's close too. And he said he was talking to his therapist and his therapist said, ~um,~ how much do you identify being an FBI agent? Like that's your identity. And he said quite a bit. And the therapist said, well, that's gonna [00:52:00] be a problem. And I told him, I said, I, I know, like it's hard to not be.

[00:52:06] Eric Robinson: That person. And I still think of myself as that guy, but I'm not, I'm not the one who I, I think I still probably would run towards gunfire, but I'm not the guy who's assigned to do that. Um, so in, in a lot of ways it's just the identity of getting up each day, whether I knew this was gonna be a boring day, just reviewing, you know, tax records.

[00:52:30] Eric Robinson: It, it, there's a purpose to it that this is something that I'm contributing and I like from the day that I got accepted in the FBI throughout and now looking back, I'd never lost the awe of I get to do this. I am in the premier law enforcement agency of the world. They asked me to help them out, and now I'm actually a guy who's a leader in it.

[00:52:55] Eric Robinson: This is amazing. So ~I, I,~ I would say maybe that 'cause you took [00:53:00] away the comradery 'cause ~that's,~ that's it, that's what I miss. But, but having the identity, what I don't miss is my bureau phone and I'm so glad I don't have that anymore 24 7 and it would go off. And so the, the chime, the gong that signaled a swat call out sounds a lot like this noise from, I think it's a Tide commercial.

[00:53:25] Eric Robinson: And I heard it the other day and I sat up in bed and like, oh, here we go. And I realized I, well I don't do that. Why is, where's that noise coming from? And, and my, my ringtone was Eric Church's creeping and I heard that in a store once and I was reaching for my pocket 'cause somebody's calling me. But no, it's just country music.

[00:53:46] Eric Robinson: And so, ~uh,~ I'm, I'm still dealing with the PTSD of that phone and I'm glad that it's gone.

[00:53:52] David: before we get into the book, so you can tell everyone when, it's about, when [00:54:00] it's coming out, and how my audience can get a copy of it. Your, your pastor, you still have that awesome knowledge and, and great advice as well as, ~um,~ former FBI. What would you tell my listeners and audience in reference to not having any regret in their life? What would you tell them to and do or reach out for they feeling? Maybe I should, maybe I shouldn't or should I, what would you tell them some good advice? In reference to reaching their, their potential or whatever.

[00:54:46] Eric Robinson: Well, early on for me. So if I would go back in time and talk to Eric, who is still the pastor, but experiencing the experiencing headaches, first off young Eric would go, damn, you look really good for your age. And I'd say, thanks. I appreciate it. [00:55:00] But ~I would tell,~ I would tell younger Eric, Hey, you stop.

[00:55:03] Eric Robinson: Stop the struggle. The hard thing for me was like, I was doing church the way I thought it should be done, and we were doing it well and I had a hard time letting go, but like I just got to a point where I can't, I can't wake up tomorrow and have this headache and I would say move on. Then in the FBII came in with no idea, like, let me figure this out along the way, young agent helping but not leading.

[00:55:31] Eric Robinson: And then as I had opportunities, I took those chances of, ~you know,~ I'm a decent shot, but let me try to be a better shooter. Because I was challenged to be a firearms instructor. And I thought, well, if I'm gonna be an instructor, I better know how to do this. And, and then worked at it and succeeded and became an instructor.

[00:55:50] Eric Robinson: And then let me try tactical, ~let me,~ let me try out for the SWAT team. Like that's, boy, that's tough to do. Let's see if I can make it. Oh yeah, I can. [00:56:00] And maintain that. And so each time that I challenged myself, ~I.~ I, it resulted for me in something that enhanced my life. And then there was a time near the end of my career where I had an opportunity to be a polygrapher, and I thought that would be awesome.

[00:56:17] Eric Robinson: And I applied for it and they turned me down and I lost to somebody. I thought, ah, why'd you pick him over me? But, you know, even then I took a chance and, and it turned out being better, that I was turned down because then I could do more teaching and training and, and work with the SWAT team and found that more fulfilling.

[00:56:35] Eric Robinson: But ~looking, I,~ for me, it was just keeping my eyes open for opportunities. Once someone suggested, Hey, why don't you try swat? And I thought, oh, yeah, I didn't think of that. And now, ~you know,~ I'm, ~I,~ now I'm trying to be open to what else can I be a part of that's gonna enhance what I do, how I feel about my job and how people look at me.

[00:56:57] Eric Robinson: I.

[00:56:58] David: do what [00:57:00] you want to do.

[00:57:01] Eric Robinson: Do what you want to do and then fail if you do okay, ~I, you know, I,~ again, I tried out to be a polygrapher. I failed. Okay.

[00:57:08] David: Every

[00:57:09] Eric Robinson: Moving on.

[00:57:10] David: another door

[00:57:10] Eric Robinson: And then, right. And then

[00:57:13] David: right.

[00:57:13] Eric Robinson: find something else. ~Uh, but yeah, I,~ learning from those experiences of, of failure or not doing well. Yep. Let's pick it up and do the next one then.

[00:57:20] David: Well, I appreciate that. Good advice. Tell my listeners what the book is called, what it is all about, and how they can get it, when they can get it. And also, ladies and gentlemen, Eric has been gracious to give a signed copy when the book comes out. in order for you to get this copy, ~must,~ let me read this so I don't mess up. But in order to get this copy, you must write [00:58:00] back to me on my, ~uh,~ sites and write the title, ~uh,~ pastor. Breacher and FBI career 2026 share one insight and moment from the podcast that really stood out to you that you really enjoyed. And I will then pick obviously the winner and send you, ~uh,~ with the information you send the book that Eric wrote. So go ahead, Eric.

[00:58:29] Eric Robinson: Then signed

[00:58:31] David: exactly.

[00:58:32] Eric Robinson: ~when it, when it,~ when it comes out. So ~it'll,~ it will come out in the fall. My wife's company weaving influence will be publishing. They, they publish books. Unfortunately paying customers have rudely stepped in front of me, so they're gonna get first shot. The book right now is with the FBI for them to review and make sure there's no state secrets being shared or we're not embarrassing.

[00:58:51] Eric Robinson: The FBI. On the contrary, I embarrass myself more than anything. The book is called Irreverent because I was [00:59:00] irreverent and I did some irreverent things while in the FBI from saving souls to chasing in the FBI, and it is a memoir about a social experiment. Of from a mad scientist, what would happen if you took a Baptist pastor who'd never touched a gun and you plucked him out of the church and you stuck him in the FBI for 24 years, and he got to do some remarkable things along the way.

[00:59:26] Eric Robinson: So it's, it's some insight into some significant cases that I led or was a part of. I got to be a part of two cases that, ~uh,~ were honored with the Attorney General's Award, which is pretty significant. So, ~yeah. Uh, so~ there's that, and then there's the simple cases where, ~you know,~ we got to rescue teen prostitutes and the interactions with them and the pimps and just the crazy stuff that went on.

[00:59:52] Eric Robinson: So I go through that. I think it's humorous, but it, it weaves in my story of how I went [01:00:00] from being a pastor. And then did an unexpected thing and jumped into the FBI. And in each chapter I tell these stories and then we do a little after action review of what made this work, well, what did we follow up, what could we have done better?

[01:00:16] Eric Robinson: And throw a couple other little stories in there too. That will be out in the fall though. I'm trying to work with my publisher to get it earlier and then, ~um,~ you'll get it, well, you'll get it here if you're lucky.

[01:00:27] David: do the book out, where will they be able to get it? Amazon or where?

[01:00:35] Eric Robinson: Yeah. On Amazon. I think it's next week that I get my glamor shots for starting to put the book together and work on covers and then set up the website. So I'm ~talk,~ talking to people like you ahead of time and, ~you know,~ we'll reify this when, when the book comes out.

[01:00:51] David: or, or what?

[01:00:53] Eric Robinson: Yeah. Yeah. ~Uh,~ if, if I wore ~my, my cries,~ my SWAT uniform, I would be ridden so hard [01:01:00] from those ex buddies who would just verbally beat me, and that would be proper too.

[01:01:06] David: Well, before we close out, give everyone, if you want your Instagram address so they can send you to number one and like, and subscribe to you that way and go slow so they can, ~you know,~ go ahead.

[01:01:23] Eric Robinson: It is easy. It's underscore Eric Robinson. I was amazed that that name was not taken. I previously, I had an Instagram account and a different name because all I did was to lurk on bad guys and my wife said, no, no, no. You gotta get a real one now and put it in your name. And if you wanna look me up on LinkedIn, it's Eric Robinson.

[01:01:43] Eric Robinson: And I think if you probably type in FBI, you'll find me too. And you'll see this face on there.

[01:01:48] David: Alright, well ~you heard~ it. You have to send him to the top. And it, I want you to do that for me and for him, Eric, it has been nothing but a pure pleasure talking to [01:02:00] you. You have given a lot of insight into you, into how many can join and the process into becoming an FBI agent, or at least into the funnel of the, uh, federal law enforcement. And I am grateful that you accepted my invite and I wish you the very, very best and so much success in your book, in everything you do. And even if you wanna try out for the FBI, again, you know, SWAT team, at least you,

[01:02:32] Eric Robinson: Yeah,

[01:02:32] David: you can do it.

[01:02:33] Eric Robinson: I can.

[01:02:34] David: you so much, Eric, for everything.

[01:02:36] 

[01:02:37] David: What an amazing episode and what an amazing guest. We just had retired special agent of the FBI, Eric Robinson. He spoke about his experience as a special agent, as an investigator. He spoke about being on the elite FBI SWAT team, and his transformation from being a pastor [01:03:00] onto the FBI, and he gave you great information on how to go down that pipeline in getting your dream job into the federal law enforcement, either as an FBI agent, Secret Service, whatever.

[01:03:16] David: But he told you how to take that path. It was a great conversation with him. He had a lot of experience that he shared with you, and I hope you gathered a lot from it. I wanna thank you for your support. I wanna thank you for liking and subscribing and this is going to be a great year for a lot of great guests on our show.

[01:03:40] David: Continue to like, subscribe, and you have a wonderful day in whatever you're going.

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