What would you do to ensure your children have limitless opportunities? Our intriguing guest, Joshua Partridge, Vice President & Head of EMEA at Yahoo! an Australian-raised father of two living in London, shares his enlightening views on parenting, and how his multicultural upbringing influenced his perspective. He artfully weaves his personal experiences, reflecting on the relationships he built during his time at Yahoo! and Shazam. It's a riveting peak into the thrilling world of travel and the opportunities it can present.
Ever thought about the role diversity and inclusion play in shaping future generations? Our guest emphasizes the importance of conscious inclusion and the celebration of our similarities as humans. He takes us on a thoughtful exploration of the diminishing civil discourse in our society, and the potential dangers of polarization. This conversation offers fascinating insights into the necessity for leaders to compromise and listen effectively.
Curious about the impact of a multicultural upbringing on children? Our discussion sheds light on this significant aspect, focusing on how cultural diversity shapes our children. The value of language learning, the importance of celebrating successes, and the role of a supportive peer group are also insights you cannot afford to miss. Join us as we uncover the lessons learned from our guest's extraordinary life journey. It's an episode filled with thought-provoking narratives and meaningful gems about leadership, parenting, and the power of diversity in society.
What would you do to ensure your children have limitless opportunities? Our intriguing guest, Joshua Partridge, Vice President & Head of EMEA at Yahoo! an Australian-raised father of two living in London, shares his enlightening views on parenting, and how his multicultural upbringing influenced his perspective. He artfully weaves his personal experiences, reflecting on the relationships he built during his time at Yahoo! and Shazam. It's a riveting peak into the thrilling world of travel and the opportunities it can present.
Ever thought about the role diversity and inclusion play in shaping future generations? Our guest emphasizes the importance of conscious inclusion and the celebration of our similarities as humans. He takes us on a thoughtful exploration of the diminishing civil discourse in our society, and the potential dangers of polarization. This conversation offers fascinating insights into the necessity for leaders to compromise and listen effectively.
Curious about the impact of a multicultural upbringing on children? Our discussion sheds light on this significant aspect, focusing on how cultural diversity shapes our children. The value of language learning, the importance of celebrating successes, and the role of a supportive peer group are also insights you cannot afford to miss. Join us as we uncover the lessons learned from our guest's extraordinary life journey. It's an episode filled with thought-provoking narratives and meaningful gems about leadership, parenting, and the power of diversity in society.
Talking of the girls, then, because I think what would be really lovely is to tell us a little bit more about the person behind. The leader is you've got two girls. You've got a fantastic wife. You're really passionate about how to change the future positively for future generations of leaders. Give give us a little bit of a background and intro into yeah sure all of the history.
Speaker 2:So, from Australia, moved to London In my early, early to mid 20s, you know, I thought I'd be doing sort of the two years stint and here I am still here, met my wife when she was an intern and I was my first job in London at Disney, you know and fast forward 16, 17 years, whatever, 18 years now, whatever it is. You know, I'm nearly approaching half my life living here in London, which you know I think Is quite. I never knew, I never thought this would be when I'd be for such a long time. So, my two daughters, both born, both born here in the UK, I've got Fana, who's 10, who's About to start your seven, and my youngest Poppy, who's I Was going year wrong she's about to start you three.
Speaker 2:But look, I think, yes, certainly I think, becoming a parent, I think you know this, they live, and I think anyone listening who's a parent, it does, it does change your perspective and I think it. I think, for the first time in your life you start thinking about, you know there's something more more important than yourself, you know, and and sort of being a father of two daughters as well. Look, I, I was raised by, you know, a Mother who had a very big, you know, very strong career, big career, and you know, and so you know, I always, you know, I think that that's strong Female person in my life is certainly, I suppose, prepared me from to be a father of two daughters. And so I'm, you know, very conscious that I want to obviously give them as much opportunity as as Anybody could have. You know, and so you know, that's that's what I, that's what I strive for, is to try and get them into a state where they can feel like they can achieve anything.
Speaker 2:I think, you know my, my oldest is, I think, approaching, you know, turning, just turned 10, and you know it's sort of about to enter those, those next, you know, 10 years, which will be, I'm sure of, as a father, a challenging period. But you know, I think my objective always is to and that is what my wife and I always talk about Just give our daughters, them, you know, as much opportunity as possible. Which avenue they go down, I think it's it's for them to choose, but you want them to feel like they can do what, whatever they want, and my job, I think, as a parent, is to is to provide that platform. So, whatever they want to do. I prepared them for that, and so that's, that's the ambition, I think, as any parent should be.
Speaker 1:I love. I didn't know, actually, that you had such a strong Mother figure in your life, and forgive me if I'm asking two personal questions here, but obviously I've had the fortunate pleasure of interviewing you, interviewing you before, interviewing you before and, as I mentioned, I was listening to our old podcast that we did when you joined me as a guest in a taxi on the way over and I thought to myself Wow, you know that was a couple of years ago. Everything that's changed since then the cultural nuances that you and your children and must have learned through Going from Brisbane now through here to the UK and obviously, your incredible travel across EMEA has that had a? Has that had an impact?
Speaker 2:I think when I, I think I always was fascinated by other cultures. I think I've always been a bit of history buff and so you know, I think you know, growing up in Australia you know relatively new country, I suppose, compared to the rest of the world, you know the ancient history, you know the sort of the you know 17, 18, 19, 20th century was always very interesting for me. So to actually go and visit a lot of these, these places that love these countries, where sort of these big events happen in history, it was always something I really wanted to do. But you never think you know you're going to see it as much as you end up doing. So I think it's been for me a really rewarding Almost 20 years of my life that I got a great opportunity to see the world.
Speaker 2:Now, I think now, post COVID, I'm very much enjoying less travel and traveling only, you know, for you know, on holidays or the occasional work trip is a good balance now as a parent. But you know those those sort of 15, 20 years where I was traveling, you know every other week was was tough, but you know, I think it was an amazing opportunity, amazing experience, you know, I think, making such great relationships and friends around the region. It's, it's a real luxury. So whether I go to everything about going to Beirut or to book arrest or or, you know, to Cape Town you know that there are good friends. I've got in all of those countries that you know. That can always help me when we wanted to go there. So I think that was a huge real benefit to certainly my time at Yahoo in my early career and then when I was at Shazam. I did a lot of travel as well and you know, I think, the you know, I think the, the, the people you meet, the experiences you have.
Speaker 2:I think one of the sad ones for me now is actually Russia, because I you know it's always very interested in Russian history and you know, when I was at Shazam, russia sort of became one of the biggest markets for us and you know, through sort of 27 so it's 16 to 2018 I spent quite a bit of time in in Moscow and St Petersburg and you know, it was a an amazing experience, you know. And then, and the relationships and the people that I met and the you know, the history that I was able to see Was fascinating. I think it's really sad that it's probably gonna be a long, long, long time before, you know, we'll I'll ever be able to go back there again, which is very sad, you know, but that's unfortunately, that's life.
Speaker 1:Indeed, and it's amazing what happens in such a short period of time. We've talked before about, you know, the political environment, geopolitical environment and the impact on business, and certainly the modern leader Needs to be someone that is able to cope with all of these different types of challenges, but also the cross-cultural Pieces that are so important to understand properly and to be able to lead global communities and organizations.
Speaker 2:I think what most you know. It's funny when you, when you start doing you know business across a lot of countries, I think most people would presume that you know it's very different right from country to country. Well, I've always had the position that actually, when you're, when you're, when you're working and traveling and doing your, your work in these different countries, I would argue that actually 90% were the same. You know, and you know, when I was going to Moscow, I was talking to the brand manager of Pepsi, right. I was talking to, you know, the team from McDonald's, right, I was talking to some of the Russian brands there and they're very same, very similar conversations. They're all trying to achieve the same thing.
Speaker 2:You know, and, yes, the language is different, yes, you've obviously got different backgrounds, but but I would argue that it's we have a lot more in common than we than than we don't. And so you know, when you're able to sort of build those relationships at the individual level, you know you often think, you know how do we screw it up so much at the geopolitical end of things? You know, because my experience of the individuals in Russia has been always very, very positive and it's it's a real shame that that's not able to sort of flow into the bigger picture of the macro view. So, you know, I think that's for me probably the biggest, or it's biggest surprise. But it shouldn't be right, because as humans, I think we have a lot more in common than we than we ever admit. Yes, we have different backgrounds, different perspectives, different, you know, education, but even with that we're still very similar. Maybe a strange question?
Speaker 1:to ask but does it ever scare you? Because there's times for me that I think, oh my goodness, so much is happening in the world. I've had great experiences in lots of different countries, but how things are changing and what you see in the media can be terrifying, especially when you have kids. Obviously, you know we have luck in blessed to have a 40-month-old, you have two young girls, and how do you feel about that as parents and as a leader? Because like, oh my goodness, like how, how, how are we going to cope with change in the coming years?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the prospect of my daughter's finishing school and doing a gap year. Backpacking around the world does terrify me. Yes, Not because I think the world is Well, I mean. Yeah, I mean it does you know, and I think as a parent all you can do is sort of prepare them for that. But yeah, I think you don't have to watch the news right to see and whether the news is just amplifying something that's always been there. There's probably a little bit to that. Maybe it's not quite as bad as we just see it and hear it much more now than we ever used to, but no, I think it does. I think any parent is going to be cautious About you know when, when, when you've been protecting these, these things for 20 years and then all of a sudden they go out to the world. You know I, my mother, still worries about me when I travel, you know all these years. So I think a parent will always do that and it's only when you become a parent do you understand it Absolutely. But but yes, I think it's.
Speaker 2:You know, I do worry that the ability to have civil conversation and disagree respectfully, I do feel that side of things is diminishing.
Speaker 2:It's kind of we very much pulled into our own tribes and we and to be in that tribe you've got to believe everything in that tribe and you've got to disagree with everything in the other tribe and I think that's a really dangerous position for us to be in in a democracy because you know, the reality is 50% of the population is in a civil conversation and I think that's a really dangerous position for us to be in in a democracy where the population generally disagree with the other 50% and that's always been the case. But I think the the, the ability to compromise, has has ensured that our democracy, our former government democracy, has worked. I think when you fail to, if you don't believe in anything and you and you look at the other other side is the enemy, I think that's a real danger for democracy that I think we all have to really consciously make an effort to bring a bit more civility back to to discourse, to dialogue, Because that's probably what I fear the most, actually for my kids' future.
Speaker 1:Indeed, is that conscious inclusion essentially as well, because things seem to be so polarized and that polarization can lead to that fear, and that fear, then, of speaking out, doing or saying the wrong thing. Oh, my goodness, are we going to be vilified for doing or saying that? Actually, it's a curiosity and some of the things that you were saying before, which you articulated them better than than I will now, but it's almost like the human language and the similarities that we have. The other majority and you talked about this in the last podcast, actually which was really fascinating is it's like love, it's kindness, it's the human factors, it's a sense of humor, all of those things they translate across borders. Yes, business may be done in different ways, and we laughed last time about the cultural, idiosyncratic differences of how you might negotiate, yet, at the same time, so much of what we do is its commonalities and similarities, and those are the things to be celebrated.
Speaker 2:No, I agree, and I think, you know, I think politicians around the world need to need to remember that to govern and to lead, there's got to be compromise and you've got to engage the other side. You know, I think it's, you know, I think it creates the wrong, I think it creates the sort of hunger for controversy I think that often the media can feel. I think it makes the sort of the people who are really engaged even more combative. You know, I think, as a society, we have to take ownership at the, you know, at the individual level. You know, I think, within the media and in the business sense as well, I think we have to, as leaders, you know, really show that compromise and listening is, you know, part of what, as a citizen, we should all be, you know, trying to achieve. And then, I think, from a political perspective, I think we have to demand our politicians, you know, engage right with the other side and have, you know, disagree on policy. I think that's what politics should be and that's what our leaders should be doing is arguing politics, not arguing personality. You know, and I think that's a real worry and it's one of the reasons why I think how I consume media has evolved as well.
Speaker 2:I don't want to watch such personal attacks.
Speaker 2:You know, on key topics I, as a consumer now I really want to make sure that that I'm staying informed, absolutely, but to try and limit my exposure to editorialization of topics as much as possible so I can create my own view.
Speaker 2:But then again, my view is my view, right, it's not going to be the same as everybody's, and that's fine. I think that's what democracy should be. But I definitely fear that and definitely hope that, you know, the next generation of kids, you know, come out with that sort of perspective and I think, as parents, I think we have to make sure that we sort of put that front and center of the way we talk to our kids, the way we expose them to different things, things that maybe we don't agree with. I think it's important to have that dialogue with them, to explain perspective, but also that they can have a different view to them than their parents, and that's fine as well. But I think you know schools, I think parents, we all, and politicians need to do a better job of showing how civil discourse is fine, you know, but you've got to do it in respect for one.
Speaker 1:Again, completely agree and trying to find something that I can respectfully disagree with you on now because I'm like, oh goodness, but talking of civil discourse, I think you know both you and I can agree or respectfully disagree with the fact that diversity ought to be utilized more so as a commercial leave for economic growth and prosperity, and economic growth and prosperity appears to be the one thing that's not being argued about in the press or in government or in future government Really important that we have that well rounded view and you know, being apolitical as a CEO actress, counsel something that is key so that we can see all of those different viewpoints yet, at the same time, we can harness the power of diversity, inclusion, belonging, equity, culture all of those rich smorgasbord of things in order to drive better, positive change for future generations.
Speaker 1:Talk to me about what CEO activism means to you, because, of course, we're very grateful to have you as a member of the CEO Activist Council.
Speaker 2:Look, I think if you, if you break down, I suppose you know what is a leader trying to achieve. A leader is trying to get the best team, the best group of individuals possible to advocate their particular product or service into a market. So there's two sides of that. One there's around attracting the best. If you limit yourself to a certain group of people, you're limiting your ability to attract the best, and so I think, from just a purely capitalistic view of labor, that makes no sense. Right, you need to ensure that you, that you are taking the best talent from the, from the biggest pool possible, right? Because that? But then layer on top of that. Well, if you're, if your customers again, are a diverse community, then you know the best way to attract the most diverse and the biggest consumer pool is to make sure your messaging, your services, your products, attracted to the biggest population, the biggest group of consumers. So, even from the most basic view of capitalism, you know to your point, it makes total sense. And so, whether you, whether you believe in CEO activism, whether you believe in the politics of it, if you strip that away, just look at the pure common sense from a business perspective, you know leaders should be trying to attract, attract the best talent from the biggest pool of candidates possible. And then, you know, I think that's, from a purely capitalist view, totally logical. I think, then, just from a human perspective, you know, I think, as, as leaders, it's our duty to ensure and I talked about this a little bit early around you know, as a parent, I want to make sure my kids have the, you know, the best chance of succeeding in life, and my job as a parent is to give, is to give them a platform so they can, you know, they can make that decision, but they can, they can strive for whatever they want.
Speaker 2:I think, as a, as a society, I think we should be at the sort of the next level down, parent to society. It's the same thing. We want any little kid waking up, you know, in the UK or Australia or wherever this morning, to feel like if they put the hard work in, they can achieve whatever dreams they have. And you know, I think it's I don't think it's controversial to say there are a lot of kids waking up and not even knowing what potential they have or can only see one or two avenues to having a, you know what you might want to call a successful life. And so, you know, I think, as a society, we have a, we have a challenge and a job in front of us to make sure that as many kids as possible feel like they can achieve. If they work hard, you know, and they're and they're committed, they can achieve anything, and there shouldn't be anything artificial blocking, blocking their roots. And so I think, from a leader's and something that we can do right now is is certainly we can lean in, we can make sure that our teams are, you know, achieving the first challenge and making sure that we're getting as diverse and attracting the best talent from a society, you know, and so we can make those, you know, we can drive that thinking in our companies right now.
Speaker 2:I think, in terms of getting, giving kids that feeling they can achieve whatever they want, that's a little bit more right.
Speaker 2:I think that's more societal, I think that's more more government, but certainly, as leaders, you know, I think we need to do our part and then put a lot of pressure on those other institutions, whether that's government, to do their part.
Speaker 2:Let's start with what we can do, and what we can do is is make sure that we are making sure that we, that our workforce represents the consumer or the audience we're wanting to target, but also, what can we do to expose younger people around the careers and the that are available for them in our industry?
Speaker 2:And so you know, that's one thing that we we're very much leaning into now. You know, and actually just last week we welcomed our legal team, did a session last week with a whole lot of sort of A level students from a couple of schools across London just to sort of say, hey, you know, you think about tech, there are a lot of professions whether that's HR, whether that's legal, whether that's marketing, whether that's product, whether that's sales, whether that's accounting that there are a lot of great professions in our industry and legal team do a great job sort of really exposing those opportunities to young, young students here in London. So you know, I think there's a lot of things we can do, but you know we sort of boil it down. We really want every kid to feel like they can achieve right, there is and there is an avenue for them to have a successful life.
Speaker 1:That was so beautifully said, josh, and you know, I think, a big part of this, what I'm getting from what you said, is early intervention and also the hearts and minds. You know obviously you're a parent to two daughters. You know really strong mother, which is wonderful. Strong wife. We are in the minority actually.
Speaker 2:Yes, I've had very strong women in my life, that's for sure, which is very much helped me be a father of two daughters, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:But, as you say it's, how do you allow them to have not their mind shape, so to speak, but to allow them to have influence, and positive influence in lots of different places? And you know, I've often thought to myself that if in the school, certainly when I was growing up, that there were, you know, not just role models but real models who were talking about the fact that it's great to be in tech if you're a girl or it's, you know, brilliant to be, you know, of a certain, you know certain culture, background color, so on and so forth, if that happened, more so in schools, early intervention would make a huge, profound difference to the career ladder and how people would end up getting to where they are and showing up, ultimately, in the workplace or whatever it is that they choose to do.
Speaker 2:Look, I think my, I think if you look at my upbringing, I think if I look at my class of kids when I grew up in Australia, they might have been sort of one or two. I would say that there weren't sort of white, you know, anglo-saxon background. I look at my, you know, and even with that sort of lack of exposure, I sort of had a view that I wanted to see the world. I think my daughters have grown up with a completely different perspective. I mean half, I would say all their class you know either Ukrainian or Russian or Chinese or, you know, or from Qatar or so their exposure to you know so many different cultures at such a young age is unbelievable and I think that's going to give them such a different perspective on life than certainly I ever did and for them it's normal. I think that's exciting for, as a parent, to see that. I think they're going to look at the global world as their country rather. Yes, they've got conflicting, nationalistic views, with their mother being Belgium, maybe Australian, born in the UK. There's lots of different things depending on who's playing football, world Cup or different sports. They'll sort of cheer for one or the other. I think we've encouraged them. They're born here, they should cheer for England and they tend to, but I think their perspective on what it is to be from a country is very different to what mine is. I've lived in the UK for nearly half my life now coming up on half my life and I still have a very strong nationalistic pull for Australia. It's going to be interesting. What my kids view is something that's fun to watch. But look, I think the opportunity that they have just through their close friendships, being from all over the world, is quite a luxury. I think it's a luxury for them that it's going to open a huge amount of potential for them in the future.
Speaker 1:Such a great quote. They'll view the world as their country. That is a great expression and it reminds me of growing up actually school in Hong Kong. It wasn't until we came to the UK that we realised maybe there was a slight difference, like we would be any Chinese children in school. But the fact that your kids have the opportunity to mix with so many different cultures and they view things in this way now will be absolutely fascinating. And you keep keeping them in touch with their different heritages from Australia to the UK to Belgium. There's so many different layers there.
Speaker 2:There is. And I think when you, you know, I think they, you know, they love both sides of it equally. I think, you know, they're very proud to have been born in Chelsea and they cheer for Chelsea Football Club, you know, and that was sort of just natural because I'm not a Chelsea fan, so that's sort of a natural thing, you know. But they now watch a lot of their cartoons and stuff in Flemish. They don't really speak Dutch at all, but you know. But they're getting exposed to that language, which I think is important because obviously for my wife that's her language, you know, and you know, but they love going to Australia and they love the animals and they both sponsor different wildlife and you know, one of my daughters is sponsors at Penguin and the other one sponsors at Kuala. So they have, I think their mind is open to taking the best bits of all the cultures they're exposed to, whether it's here in the UK and Australia and Belgium. They take the best of all those three countries.
Speaker 2:And I created this sort of I don't know this interesting position on who they feel represents them. So it's going to be interesting to see how that works. And we've got friends living in London who are in the same position. You know we've got a few friends, both Italian and you know, but their kids have been born and raised in the UK and it's going to interesting to see how. You know, I think Italian, and like Australians, are very proud of where they're from, so it's going to be interesting to see how their kids turn out as well. You know, sort of growing up outside of the countries of their parents.
Speaker 1:Totally, totally relates we're having the same debate at the moment is do we teach Peter Mandarin? And I said, to cost my husband, that I would love to learn at the same time, because I don't speak any Chinese. And so at least I can learn baby steps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good idea.
Speaker 1:So that they experience all of the different richnesses of the different cultures.
Speaker 2:Look, I think, if I could critique myself, I was never great at learning languages. I'm happy to admit that. I remember my year eight Japanese teacher, I think, said to my mother, I think languages are for him, whereas my sister, you know, she, she's fluent in Japanese and she lived in Japan for six years, so, and my wife is obviously fluent in English and Dutch and French and understands German and Spanish. So, you know, I look at them and think, wow, you know, I wish I could, you know, I wish I could have done that.
Speaker 2:But, but, and actually it's probably one of the reasons why my, my kids don't speak Dutch, is because I think, in a house where both parents speak another language, then it's very natural for the kids because they can speak that language at home and the kids will develop that second language. Whereas because I don't speak a word of Dutch, apart from happy birthday and how to say a few swear words, you know the home, we're not speaking Dutch. And so I think my wife, you know that, I think that's a big sacrifice to my wife, because I think she, you know, she would love her kids to be able to speak her language. And so, you know, that's why I think now watching the kids watch a lot of their TV and Flemish to try and develop that now is something that it's a good idea.
Speaker 1:But I think you should definitely do that.
Speaker 2:Oh, doggy tricks is tough. I feel the same thing.
Speaker 1:Because they're young. Right now, at least this is. You know, these are some of the decisions that we're going through trying to make Moment. I'm like, oh my goodness, but it's so hard. I want to try to learn Mandarin. It's like seven tones, it's tough and I just couldn't Japanese, I think in Mandarin, I think.
Speaker 2:equally different alphabets, different right. They're tough languages to learn. I lived in Switzerland for three years, in the French speaking part of Switzerland and I think by the end of it I could order pizza online and that was an order, you know at the local bolognere. But that was about the limit of my French after living there for three years, again, very much the same.
Speaker 1:I think you can order a chocolate croissant. I can say what I would like. I just come back from Hong Kong and you know, could pretty much say in Guile as a thank you, in the taxi and gazed at people when they speak to me in Cantonese, which, you know, you kind of think, oh my goodness. You know, you're kind of different cultures, different, different borders, but ultimately the you know the language of, you know humanity, kindness, love, all those kind of great things. Actually, that's what's really, really important.
Speaker 2:I think as an English first speaker, I think you can become very lazy, and particularly in my industry as well. You know, I've traveled 50, 60 countries now in my job and everyone speaks English, so you get away with it.
Speaker 2:There are some tough countries, but you can get away with it, whereas I think if you've come from another language, you know you. I think you naturally are going to learn English. So yeah, that's my one crit. Well, I've got many critiques of myself, but that's my biggest one. I wish I spoke more than one language.
Speaker 1:It's never too late, and you're not an old dog, josh.
Speaker 1:However, I will say, whilst we're talking about personal career and life and things like this, that there is this perception that CEOs, leaders, entrepreneurs, kind of you know they've got it all, it's easy, you got to the top. Happy days, you know, lots of, lots of great things come to you, but I think possibly you and certainly I know that it can be an overwhelmingly lonely place to be, and I wonder who has been an activist in your life who's shone a light in dark places, if there have ever been dark places on the journey?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great question. I think, look, I've been lucky to have a really strong foundation in terms of growing up and having great examples, whether it's my mother, whether that's my sister as well, or my older sister. I think I was very protective for many years and I think that gave me a great foundation. I think, in terms of my career, I think I've worked for some. I think every person I've ever worked for I've learned from the good. The bad is equally as important, and so I think my mother tells a story when she used to teach swimming and she used to bring me along when I was a little boy before I was swimming, and I think when I became two or three, they teach you early in Australia to swim. When I was first put in, I just started swimming, and so my mother tells a story that I used to just watch and I learned a lot from just watching, and I think that's true. I think, whether that's driving or learning to drive a car, first I got a car. I'd watched it so much, I knew how to do it, and I think that's that same watching other people who can do it better than you is something that I really pay a lot of attention to. So I think I've done that in my career too. I've watched the good leaders, seen what they've done, tried to unpack what they're doing and see how I can apply that from my own perspective. But I think it's been a big part of, certainly, my career. So I've been very, very lucky to have also worked for some really great bosses as well who were very supportive of me and my career, and so I think that's really helped me get to here and I think, look, I think for any leader, you definitely need those sounding boards and I've been lucky and certainly my time here at Yahoo to have some really good peers, whether it's Paul, who used to run Asia Pacific, john Finney, who runs around Canada, latin America, simon Halstead, who used to be here as well, and Kree, who brought me over actually to Yahoo. So I've had great relationships with all those folks and I think that's really helped me during those challenging times, because you're going to have them to sort of sit down and run ideas by, get their perspective. I think it's been really, really important and I think any leader who doesn't have that group of people that whether it can be people in your company generally has to be peers or more senior people, because real one of leadership is you don't whinge down, right, you know, I think it's important that as a leader, that you really do that leading. But everyone needs those people that they can confide to go to for advice. Users are sounding bored and I've been very lucky to have those people along the way Just when you're not quite sure what you should do here and maybe you've got two or three ideas, but it's good to get that experience back. So I've been very, very lucky to have that group of people that I can. And look, when I talk to my own teams, I encourage that same thing.
Speaker 2:I think self-awareness for me is probably the most important part of any leader's ability to succeed, because how you lead is all about not the message you'll put, but portraying that, how it's being consumed by your team right.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter how you say it, because if they're hearing it differently it's not going to have the impact that you want.
Speaker 2:And so maintaining that high level of self-awareness is, I think, so, so, so important. I think, younger, when I first started to run teams in my career, I didn't really have that self-awareness and I kind of felt like everyone was like me right and what motivates me, what gets me, is the same for my team, and I had very low self-awareness and it's something that I really had to work on. I think people naturally shy away from it because they feel like it's like self-criticism or criticism, but the way that I look at it is criticism is just about it's the way to improve things You're not doing that well, and so knowing the areas you need to improve is really important as a leader, because if you're not big enough to say, actually that area, that area, I'm not doing very well and I need to focus on it, you're not filling anybody, and so I think maintaining that self-awareness is really important, but again, through sounding boards, through good confidence, they will also give you that feedback as well, and you need to be big enough to be able to take it.
Speaker 1:So, yes, I've been very blessed to have strong leaders, you know, in my life.
Speaker 1:It's superb advice because it can be such a lonely place, and having the peer set internally, but also the peer set externally those that you are almost jogging to keep up with is how it sounds like you've really broken through those next steps and stages of learning. I've often found myself is like oh my goodness, this feels so uncomfortable, I don't know what I'm going to do next. However, the watching and the learning and the looking at people that you aspire to be like and unpacking, almost as you were, explaining how they do what they do- helps, I think.
Speaker 2:Also, sometimes leaders feel like they have to have all the answers and, look, we can fall into that trap of, oh, we need to move fast, so I'm going to tell people how I want it done, and so this is an area that I'm trying to improve myself is actually, you've got some really smart people that work for you right, acknowledge that you don't know the answers, and taking their viewpoints and saying, okay, no, you're right, let's do it that way. I think every leader probably should do a better job of that. I think we all can, you know, take a lesson from that. You've hired great people, you've got right. You've got probably most of the answers in front of you. Sometimes you just need to shut up and listen, and that's an area that, you know, I still need to work on for myself Listen.
Speaker 1:I think you're a great listener and talking of listening and the whys of joining a peer group, which ultimately is what we've created the embryonic CEO. Well, it's not so embryonic Now I've got a whole number of CEOs of join, which is really exciting 40 plus, which is wonderful. Why, without selling to a promotional here? Why should other CEOs and leaders join the CEO at the risk council?
Speaker 2:Well, look, I think the networking is a huge part of that because, you know, I think having that peer set they're having the same challenges as you are, and so actually having that community of leaders is hugely valuable, I think. I think we all are dealing with very similar issues right now and I think, as you know, any leader you should be trying to get as broad perspective on the challenges that you have, which just happen to be the same challenges most of the other CEOs have as well. So I think to create that community of leaders here in the UK I think is really really valuable. You know, I think that it's also rallying around you know, a really important topic, you know, I think is even more important as well, and so you know, even you know, when we went to Downey Street a few months ago just to see the breadth and the depth in different industries at that one table, really advocating different perspectives but all pushing for the same, trying to achieve the same thing, and so certainly I think as a leader, it's inspiration actually to hear some of the other stories and CEOs also to. I think it realizes, okay, maybe you're actually a little bit behind and you need to push a little bit harder.
Speaker 2:But I think having that network of like-minded people all having that same sort of challenge, for me is really, really important because it does inspire me. I think there are some, you know, very, very successful leaders that you you'd be able to bring together. And you know, I think for me, you know, at least from a leadership perspective, I'm relatively young in that side of things, but to hear for some of those people who've been leaders for 20, 30, 40 years, maybe 40 years, maybe a stretch, I think some of their 20, 30 years, you know, has been really inspirational to me. So you know I love attending you know, your events because I feel like I come away with a real fresh perspective and a real enthusiasm to do things differently. So, but for me that's why it's me, I think, usually valuable.
Speaker 1:Josh, that makes me so happy and I know it makes the team so happy. And final question before we wrap up, and I have probably asked you this before, but I'd be really curious to know whether things have changed. What would you say has been or is your secret to success?
Speaker 2:Great question, laila, I think. Look, I always felt like you know, it's funny. I was telling the story about having the students in the office last week and most of them arrived on time. There was a group of them who were a good 20, 30 minutes late, and so when I was doing my welcome speech to them, I sort of pointed out, really and truly, most of us have the same sort of level of intellect, in IQ, but actually what makes I think, what sets people apart, is the energy, the dedication, the caring about their job, and I've always found those people who really care, they're passionate about what they do, they're passionate about their clients and their customers and they really care. They're generally the people that achieve great things.
Speaker 2:Because I think, yes, work-life balance is important, yes, going home and disconnecting is important, but caring, really caring about the company you work for, the team that you're part of, I think is the big difference between those people who coast and those people who really succeed. And so my message to that young group was you should always be on time, because that sets the. I think, it sets the mood of the day, it sets the mood of the meeting, it sets the mood of the relationship that you create with the person you're meeting and caring. I think if you can do those things, your bosses, your companies will value you. When you're valued by your company, you're going to do well, and so I think that's what I've always tried to do.
Speaker 2:I may not be the smartest, I may not work as hard as long as others, but I certainly when I was younger I think I did but I really care. I really care about the people, I care about the company, I care about my job. I think if you can do that, then you have a pretty good chance of being successful.
Speaker 1:Josh, thank you so much. It has been. I always love having conversations with you. I always come away from them feeling a bit lighter actually.
Speaker 2:So it's always like.
Speaker 1:It must be like therapy, but what I'm hearing and my little summary in my mind as you were talking there was, to an extent, the harder you work, the luck you get Really caring about people and, frankly, being in a leadership CEO role. This growing pool of needs of stakeholders, shareholders, is becoming more complex and the visibility of leaders is far more now than it ever has been. But really being able to open up, share some of the vulnerabilities, but also enjoy the successes together, to celebrate the similarities to your point around all the different cultural borders that we work with within business, but also the early intervention as well, because we are a lot of things to a lot of people A father, a son, a husband, a boss, a colleague, the list goes on, and so having a peer group and being able to counter, along with others, that you're aspiring to be with an open mindset all incredibly important, but thank you so much.
Speaker 1:It's really been just so great having you here and it's wonderful to have you as a part of our CEO Act, of His Council and on our show again, thank you.
Speaker 2:It's great to be with you again. Second half.