What if diversity wasn't a zero-sum game? What could you achieve if you understood the power of connecting with diverse audiences and truly grasped the value of stakeholder engagement? Join us as we take an in-depth look at diversity and inclusion in the business landscape with Alicin Reidy Williamson, Chief Diversity and Culture Officer at Yahoo. This isn't just about ticking boxes and making sure the workplace is representative. It's about how a diverse and inclusive environment can drive positive change and prosperity.
Alicin gives us a masterclass in communication and leadership. She shares their insights on the importance of resilience, the abundance mindset that comes with embracing diversity, and the vital role that a Chief Diversity Officer plays in an organization. We address the misconception that diversity is a zero-sum game and instead focus on the benefits it brings to innovation, economy, and the very identity of a business. For those interested in the role of the CDO, she even provides some invaluable advice.
Our exploration doesn't stop there. We discuss the need to support female founders, create equitable workplace policies, and address the impact of inaction on diversity initiatives. We also talk about the need for businesses to constantly adapt and evolve to stay relevant in our ever-changing digital world. The wealth of knowledge shared in this conversation is invaluable for those looking to foster diversity and inclusion in their own organizations. Don't miss out on an episode that could transform the way you view diversity and inclusion in business.
What if diversity wasn't a zero-sum game? What could you achieve if you understood the power of connecting with diverse audiences and truly grasped the value of stakeholder engagement? Join us as we take an in-depth look at diversity and inclusion in the business landscape with Alicin Reidy Williamson, Chief Diversity and Culture Officer at Yahoo. This isn't just about ticking boxes and making sure the workplace is representative. It's about how a diverse and inclusive environment can drive positive change and prosperity.
Alicin gives us a masterclass in communication and leadership. She shares their insights on the importance of resilience, the abundance mindset that comes with embracing diversity, and the vital role that a Chief Diversity Officer plays in an organization. We address the misconception that diversity is a zero-sum game and instead focus on the benefits it brings to innovation, economy, and the very identity of a business. For those interested in the role of the CDO, she even provides some invaluable advice.
Our exploration doesn't stop there. We discuss the need to support female founders, create equitable workplace policies, and address the impact of inaction on diversity initiatives. We also talk about the need for businesses to constantly adapt and evolve to stay relevant in our ever-changing digital world. The wealth of knowledge shared in this conversation is invaluable for those looking to foster diversity and inclusion in their own organizations. Don't miss out on an episode that could transform the way you view diversity and inclusion in business.
Hello and welcome to the Diverse, inclusive Leaders podcast. This is the show where I speak with the most inspirational and thought-provoking leaders of today and unearth their unique stories of diversity and inclusion to help inspire, educate and motivate others to make the world a better place. Today, I'm delighted to be joined by Alison Reedy-Williamson. Alison is the Chief Diversity and Culture Officer for Yahoo. She's had a tremendous career across the board, internationally, with the media and communications. With over 25 years experience, she's developed and executed public affairs campaigns through to diversity, corporate social responsibility strategies, and she's also the president of Makers. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, layla, great to be here.
Speaker 1:Is kind of still the whole premise of Does the CDO Report into the CHRO? It's still a battle that people sometimes don't want to talk about because they don't report into the CEO. But you know they want to and I think, given where the world is at right now and some of the negative headlines we've seen, frankly I just think it's so important that we remember and remind everyone that this is a economic growth lever for commerciality the reliability of businesses, and hence I always thought it should report into the CEO.
Speaker 1:Is it an advisory role?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I mean, I think you know, and I've now done both, and I will say that I so I understand why people think that, why people think that it's an HR area of excellence, right, as an advisor. What gets lost, though, is the ability to have this expansive function and role that tethers both the way that we're working with our our employees and engaging our employees and thinking about who's coming in, but also our consumers and our clients and our partners, and not having that like connectivity is a miss, because it actually, you know, we see this all the time, right, we see their companies that have really strong, you know, they have all sorts of great creative and marketing that suggests that they're extremely inclusive, and then they have employees basically revolting saying, like what are you talking about? There's like absolute disconnect between this experience working for you and then what you're saying, what you're proposing externally, and so, in order to alleviate that and actually not have that the situation creating the opportunity to have a seamless connect like line between how you operate, both for like for all the people that you're connected with, all of your stakeholders that there's not, you know, one set of rules or one set of ways of engaging versus another. So which is, you know, again, the other reason why I think that the sea, like reporting into the CEO, this is, this is an area that is, yes, as an advisor is important, but also it helps the colleagues do their jobs better. So the leaders of business, like has you know the works I partner so closely with my colleagues on the executive team and they are, and I learned from them.
Speaker 2:But my hope is, and my hope is, that they also are learning from me the when it's solely focused as an internal or recruiting strategy or a solely focused on human resources, we all miss an incredible opportunity to do better, to ensure that we are and for the company to do better. So, again, I've had both experiences with like I know I work and I reported to an incredible CHRO who, but and we were partners the thing that was missing for her was someone else in that room having, so that she wasn't the only person having to talk about the employee experience as well as the way that we want to operate and be seen as an entity. So it creates more allies in an executive team as well as creates like that allows for more access and reach and expansion of scope, but I don't know how articulate I was about that with that. I didn't know we're switching into mode. I wasn't in mode.
Speaker 1:I was actually about to say.
Speaker 1:You articulated yourself perfectly that was a quote into itself is when you said that when we're solely focused on HR, we miss this incredible opportunity for the business to be able to better and to do more.
Speaker 1:We can increase our allies across the board with exact teams and, given the current environment of the workforce, we know there's a growing educated stakeholder group. Having chief diversity officer is not purely the internal advocate, but also the external advocate, driving engagement in all different places. Which, I guess, leads me on to asking a little bit about you and your personal career, because you've had a lot of experience across the board in media communications over two decades worth of experience executing on public campaigns, strategy, corporate social responsibility and you know some of the. Without being too biased, some of the most brilliant chief diversity officers that I have seen have come from a background where they deeply understand communication and public affairs in particular, because there's a far greater interest in relations now, even within the diversity in the social spectrum. So love to know your thoughts, but also love you to give us a whistle stop tour, because you have just had a phenomenal career, from public responsibility through to being a professor and now chief diversity and culture officer at Yahoo.
Speaker 2:I've had a lot of fun. I have had a lot of fun in this career, but you know, just to your original point, I think, with communications and and certainly just anything that requires us having to think about stakeholders and stakeholder engagement, it allows us to set the stage for how to do this work well, because we have to think about how, what we want people to understand right, what we want them to know, and then what we are hoping that they, and how we need to understand how they hear us Right. So we have to be incredibly thoughtful about who we're speaking to. We have to understand what are the things that might get in the way of them. We have to be definitely hearing what we're trying to communicate. And how are we able to allow, like to engage and encourage people to then hopefully do what we're hoping them that they do with this information?
Speaker 2:And so, whether it was with political strategy or communications or corporate responsibility, even public private partnerships in my early days with the fund for the city of New York we have to create these relationships that align, that align interests Right, and to make sure so we have, you know, one of my favorite things I was able to do when I was at the Raven group as well was think about unlikely bedfellows. Right, there are commonalities, and that's the beauty of this work around. Diversity is that we have so many commonalities of aligned interests that aren't necessarily always obvious. Being able to push through what can be received as immovable differences and understand that more is actually what I enjoy most about all the work that I've been able to do and bring it to the fore here at Yahoo now I find it interesting.
Speaker 2:I think humans are humans are humans everywhere and there's a lot to understand and learn, but I really enjoy determining, through understanding, how to find a humanity in everyone.
Speaker 1:I love how you talk about this pushing through differences and you know, really, in the modern world that we live in, that emotional intelligence and that real, true kind of you know, people centric ability to to cut across lots of different cultures and different cultural groups is something that leaders absolutely must have. It's one of the only things that cannot be emulated by, you know, things like AI. No, it is absolutely the heart and soul of leadership at its very best, it is the true authenticity to be able to deal with different people, different levels, different characters. And now I guess, if I go right back to the very young Allison, you did international relations and you studied a masters of public policy, urban and environmental. So clearly, right from the early days, you're banging on the drum, wanting to do good for the world. Like, tell me about the personal background. You know how did that? You know, was that because of your upbringing? Was it something you knew always wanted to do?
Speaker 2:Sure, well, you know this is a quintessential case of representation matters. I was enthralled when I was in high school by Condoleezza Rice. Condoleezza Rice, who was and again, seeing her through the slums of this young black girl in upstate New York, was a diplomat. She spoke Russian, she was a classical pianist. Like we didn't see that in the eight, like that was. It was incredible and I determined that. I was determined to be that.
Speaker 2:I was very intentional. I was super focused about going to Tufts University because of their incredible international relations program. I studied Russian. I insisted on the only plant learning classical piano, when you know, all the other kids and even my piano teacher when I was growing up wanted me to expand my portfolio. I was just super focused no, it's got to be classical, because I know that it's so unusual.
Speaker 2:And so that was really the, the impetus I was inspired and focused on really creating. For, like, I saw what was possible and so I went for it. And fortunately, I was raised in a family where especially my mom, who was absolutely like this is what you want, let's figure out, like, let's go go get it. And it was. It took a lot of work and Russian is not easy, although I find it easier than German and French. Frankly, and there's a and of course, ironically, I also focus on Soviet studies, which became rapidly irrelevant, at least at that time. But it was the idea of representation was really important to me, that I was inspired by this person who I saw. Then I could be and determine that I wanted to be that for other people.
Speaker 1:That is absolutely amazing. I mean, to be so intentional and determined and know what you want at such a young age, I think is absolutely remarkable. I have to say I feel like I'm no new for ages, but I never knew that you spoke Russian. Oh my, I mean, I literally another level.
Speaker 2:And I will, I will say in full disclosure I, I, it's. I've lost a bit of it, although I started to study it again during our quarantining time in during COVID. So getting back, getting back into it, but yeah, it was. I still writes to, really, which is always a fun game for me, but that is absolutely.
Speaker 1:It is absolutely remarkable and you can see in a way why you were drawn then to working with large global organizations and the fact that you then, to your own choice, want to deal with lots and lots of stakeholders who think lots and lots of different things across lots of different cultures, which, in you know many people's roles.
Speaker 1:That's kind of their worst nightmare. You know, being the conduit to making, you know, come together, join arms in decision making, and I mean it's quite reflective of the role of a chief diversity officer, I believe, is having, you know, an unprecedented level of tenacity and resilience to continue going. And it sounds, you know, very much like that was you in those early days. You're going against the grain where you know, when you're young you're more influenced, I think, by, by others than you are as you start to get older. But to be studying Russian, insisting on classical piano, going against the grain in the early days, is really unusual. But you know that resilience, that's an asset, I think it's, you know, is it something that has helped you be more successful in the roles that you play? Do you think?
Speaker 2:Well, I think well, thank you for all of that and I do think resilience is essential.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think we all need it and almost all of us have it, and I think, with this kind of work, especially because you're not, it's not about me, right, it is about me understanding and needing to learn and appreciate what you're sitting at and what is what you're seeing.
Speaker 2:My experience from you know, in the way that I grew up and where it's different from like other people who may look like me Now there are alignments, certainly in commonalities, but I can't operate through my own experience and I think part of what I think is something that is allows us all to have that resilience is knowing and believing deeply that this is all in the business of making people better, right, like I believe truly, if we operate with this lens of understanding more about who other people are, truly, not our assumptions, not our biases, not sort of the whatever Reddit feed we're in, but really truly understanding we are, we have this ability to be so much better and so more kind and I think, while the kindness is in some way that subjective possibly, but I think, having this ability to create and work with people who are truly interested in again just being better humans and certainly then better leaders and better founders and better managers. There's just nothing that I can think of that's more worthwhile to me right now.
Speaker 1:It's interesting to talk about the business of making people better.
Speaker 1:I really like that expression that you've just said and I recall various conversations we've had over, you know, say, the last year, and you've always talked about being in the business of people and this growth mindset, which I think is particularly important when we talk about the different lenses of diversity and culture. You know, I speak to a lot of people who don't have experience within our world and I'll say, oh well, diversity, is this a nice to have, is it something which is charitable, etc. Etc. And you know, my response is always that you know, of course you want to make the world a better place, but actually, through utilizing diversity as a commercial lever for economic growth and prosperity, we do exactly as you said previously, and that is we're in the business of making people better, we're providing more growth opportunities, we're providing more stability for the long term growth of our economies, our societies, our communities and, frankly, with more individuals within the organization and within the world understood this, I think that they would place a far greater emphasis on diversity. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2:No, well, absolutely, you know, I believe that this is growth mindset. It's transformative, it's innovative. I am always well, not always surprised, because it's happened enough times. I'm not surprised any longer, but somewhat dismayed, I suppose, when I still hear the most innovative minds in this business and fortunately I don't happen to, I work with people who are right there with me but just thinking about, like, incredible shifts and disruption of the way, of technology and of the way things are, and just incredible ideas, and then, when it comes to diversity, goes back to a 1974 playbook.
Speaker 2:And I think part of what we get to do is as, especially, we understand what's possible more and what we need to be thinking about particularly. You mentioned AI earlier, which it absolutely has. Like, I don't think it can replace the human, but it also has some incredible advantages. I think that there is. It's increasingly important for us to know truly what we're talking about. And what we're talking about is if we are going to be innovative and if we think we have, we're on the cutting edge of something you can't possibly have only been, if it can't be sustainable, if you've only been speaking to one type of person, one type of person right Like that, is that's not transformative, transformative and that's not innovative, right, and it's certainly not growth mindset.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and it goes back to an article that I was reading. So you've done some fantastic kind of interviews of the time, and you previously spoken about diversity, often simply being thought about anything that is not straight white, male, quote, unquote, and I particularly like that because I think that is the historic denotion of what diversity is. Is there's this presumption that, hey, you know, female, ethnic, that's diversity, when actually, to your point, it's so much deeper and richer than that it is. It's innovation at its very best. It is, you know, it's living, it's breathing, it's it's sleeping, is every single aspect of our identity, and if we are not looking at it in that way, then we are hugely missing out.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, you know you're so right and it's such a. There's so much possibility, and which is why I get excited and I actually like love doing this work is because there's even there are hard days, and that's okay, because you know that's how you get you move things. But this is it's not a headline, right, this is a. This is systems change. This is having a shifting mindset. Right, if we're thinking about the traditional roles of what men, who, what men should have, right, and that burden, then we're actually destined to know if we can't get out of that, we're destined to consistently be only like, considered, like. Oh, this is like sort of extra money that we're bringing in, as opposed to making sure that, if we can shift, what we think of is how every adult gets to show up in the way that they want to, and he's in some cases, you know, if we're doing well as women, particularly women of color, we also have the ability to lift all boats, which is what we've traditionally done when we're you know what's required in order for that to be the case. Everything gets better for everyone. People can share more, including men, talk more. Right, you're giving permission to take time away from two parents or to take care of an elderly parent, you're given like there's like this is, you know, the example that I often use is the carbouts in sidewalks that were created for people in wheelchairs. Right, that was required for people in wheelchairs. So when you think about who uses those carbouts, those lands in the sidewalk kids with scooters, people on bikes, delivery people, carriages like strollers, like this is the idea.
Speaker 2:Is that simply because it's not it simply because, sorry, there is something that is that there's. There are people in mind when there's a change happening. It's not zero sum, it doesn't mean that it can't benefit everyone else, and it actually and it truly does, and people don't even think about it anymore. People, just like you roll up your stroller over the, you know, over the ramp. That wasn't made for a child stroller, right, but it's still. It's beneficial. And so I think part of what often happens is people are thinking oh well, we, you know, if you do this for this, like in this way, for this person we all look at, everyone else loses, when, in fact, actually when you're focusing on, in some cases, the least of us, everyone else benefits. It's a abundance, yeah.
Speaker 1:So sorry to interrupt that. I was getting really excited. I was just hugely nodding on mute then Just been like I agree, I agree, I absolutely agree. It's one of my favourite quotes actually is that this is not a zero sum game. It's not a case of them losing, for them to win. Actually, to your point. You know, all boats are lifted, opportunities created where you never realised there was a need before. It's absolutely brilliant, that abundance mindset. Coming back to something that you mentioned before and you know getting really candied, because I know that you and I can be really candid together, which are a lot you said look, this is not a headline, you said it with power behind those words and I felt the spark of almost, you know, rage when I when I see these headlines around diversity and in particular, there's this one that you'll have seen, I'm sure, recently and is talking about diversity, officers diminishing, etc.
Speaker 1:And I was just like, oh my goodness, if you look at the brilliance of those people and you actually look into their backgrounds, it is not that they have been let go. I mean, it is just absolutely crazy. But there have been a lot of headlines around the role of the CDO. Everyone knows which side we're on. It's never been more important. If you do not have that role, you are headed for a downturn with your organisation.
Speaker 1:But also we referenced the tenacity needed for the chief diversity officer, because you know it is a relatively new role within the C-suite and sometimes has this short kind of tenure. And so I guess my questions or you know if I've even just thoughts and observations that you have around you know some of these horrible headlines. You know let's play the other side of that coin. But then you know also what advice can you kind of give to other chief diversity officers and people that want to go into a chief diversity officer role? Because you are one of the most tenacious people I know, when you're not scared to say it, and I think it needs people more people like you to say actually, do you know what? Don't listen to the crap in the headlines, because look at the statistics.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, I think a couple of things, and I you know part of, and I'm sitting, honestly, in a seat that's extremely enviable because I have such an incredible CEO in Jim Landzone. I have the hit the art. The Yahoo board is incredible. My colleagues are with me, and so I have the privilege of being able to be in lockstep with people who are as committed now and I get to help them do like just all the things that they're interested in doing, which is an incredible place to be, and so I recognize that I write at this moment and in an incredible situation.
Speaker 2:Now, one of the things that I know a lot of my colleagues who are chief diversity officers are wrestling with is that they're constantly in battle, that they're trying to convince people of the value. Now, we just talked about how this is. It's essential for business. It is about innovation, transform, transformation, growth, mindset, and yet there are people. And makes you better. And yet why would someone have to argue the point, right, like that's what? So what's so bananas about it? That there is someone who's sitting in an office saying I'm here, I'm going to make you better, and people say like, oh, I don't know, it's too risky, right? I think that it's extremely frustrating, for for several of my, my colleagues in the field and I think part of what you know, what I also, you know, say frequently is pay attention to what's done, not what's said, and that can go both ways, for sure. But if there's sort of we still are committed to diversity and yet we are going to downsize your team and we're going to eliminate or just like decrease your budget, we're going to level you three levels down or two levels away from the CEO, that's not commitment to diversity, it's just not. And and I any company that says that's true, I mean I don't believe it and I, like you said, like where I can only be like, transparent and honest. This is a, it's a signal of the lack of commitment and so there's that and it's. This is not and I don't judge anyone who sits in that seat, because people are still trying to do what they can or to strengthen to make other people's lives better. So this is not at all a judgment of who sits in that seat, but more an acknowledgement that whoever is saying that they're the running a company that is saying that they're committed to diversity, and how old those, has that situation. Don't buy it, just don't buy it, and I think part of what is really, again, what I'm seeing that's wonderful is, on the other side of it, our companies that are doubling down reflecting that commitment, our increasing budget, are creating more spaces for their chief university officers to be present, even in the conversations around AI. Right Like this is, so I see those that are committed are showing it and not leaning into the rhetoric.
Speaker 2:The other is, what's really important is that we understand what we're talking about. When we're talking about diversity, equity and inclusion, and I think, when it is being driven at this sort of narrative of it's less for us, more for them, and it's very much only about race and specifically black people or the LGBTQ community and specifically transgender that becomes and that's what is and my belief is that's what's driving a lot of the rhetoric is it's essential that we make sure that people understand what we're truly talking about and it's what we were talking about earlier, leila, which is this water raises all boats. If we actually figure out how to make lack of transgender women safer, everyone else in this world benefits everyone, right and so, and that's just true. So I think making sure that we understand that there is and everyone is part of this diversity conversation. That is also an important piece of this. It is not a diverse person, it is a diverse community there. Everyone has a stake in this, everyone benefits from it, and there are people who will try to convince you that it's actually just about one type of person or one type of experience, and that's just not true. So the more we're able to educate people, the more we're able to have real conversations, the more we're able to support the people who are trying to make other people better and other kind of companies better, I think will win.
Speaker 2:I'm not, as I'm not excited about the attacks of on DEI. I'm not excited the fact that there are states in the United States that have the title for public institutions where the title is actually illegal, which is bananas. But here's the thing the work is the work and that's what can't be undone If you're committed to humanity. I was doing this work when I was in political strategy. I was doing this work when I was in corporate responsibility. I was focused on stakeholder engagement and making sure that people were feeling heard and seen when I was working on public-private partnerships. So the title is the title, the work doesn't change.
Speaker 1:Title is the title, the work is the work and ultimately it is an absolutely strategic role.
Speaker 1:I think just tagging onto some of the things that you were saying there about some of the awful, awful, awful headlines and the work being dangerous in some states, which is terribly, terribly sad is people are so brave, those who are doing this work, those kind of skills, those people skills are skills that you can use in absolutely any field, and those that are not paying attention to this, I think they still have that fear that it is a zero-sum game, that there is a need to pull some down in order to bring others up.
Speaker 1:But, as you said before, why would anyone need to argue this point, taking some of the emotion out of it? The contribution for, say, women-owned businesses I think I read it the other day it was something like two trillion dollars, something like that yet, at the same time, the amount of money that is invested in these organizations and from the world of VC and so on and so forth I mean, you're talking percentage points. It's embarrassing. No, so it's kind of about whether we're white, black, yellow, brown, whatever we may be. Actually, from a pure economic and financial point, it makes sense for the flourishing of the future generations of leaders. But yeah, no, no. I think that that's been a super, super argument.
Speaker 1:I mean, if I was anyone picking up Michael podcast and listening to that, it's an absolutely solid argument for why you would continue to want to do that role or contrary to any of the negative headlines that you see, because where else, in what organization, do you get that breadth of knowledge, understanding, strategy input, different stakeholders and the likes? Obviously I'm biased, I'm not just saying this, but if I were to pick a role to, for us to pick someone from a certain function to recruit that I know would have to nasty and be able to navigate the very fast moving world, it would be a diversity officer, because they have been through it and come out the other side.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, yes, I agree, I agree, and I think that we, because we have to pay attention to so much and we have to learn so quickly so that we can be helpful I mean, one of the things that we want to do is not try to put just throw something over a problem or have try to give guidance and advice to a business that we don't know anything about and part of what. So we have to learn quickly, we have to learn business, we have to learn industry, we have to learn company culture, and the ability to be able to truly ensure that we're growing a business is super important.
Speaker 1:And I don't want to lose.
Speaker 2:When you were talking about the data around investment in women's businesses, which I think is extremely, what we know is that there's not nearly enough.
Speaker 2:And the other role that I have at Yahoo is president of Makers, which is a gender equity brand focused on gender equity in the workplace and the ability to ensure that we have economic heft as women actually helps address a lot of the other issues that are swirling in the world.
Speaker 2:So when I talk about sort of like this boat rising, like lifting up, like the water lifting all boats, like this is another great example that if we are able to really ensure that we're supporting female founders, if we're supporting making sure that we have equitable compensation, ensuring that there's access and that we are creating just policies and benefits that allow for us to have just again an opportunity to thrive in the workplace and wherever that might be, we know that the economy benefits like significantly. I'd love to throw a number out and it's found really smart, but I actually don't have that data in front of me and I don't want to be I don't want to misquote one, but I know that that's true and I know that we have there's a lot of opportunity for everyone to do better in supporting female businesses.
Speaker 1:I know that I could get into with you and I'm really conscious of time. What I will say really quickly, before I ask you a couple of lightning round questions, is a friend of mine who is a CDO said the other day what's the impact of inaction? I thought, oh my God, I love that. What is the impact of inaction?
Speaker 1:That's your question, you talk so much about the return on investment and some of the things that we were quoting there in a contribution to the economy for female founders, minority founders, so on and so forth, but actually the impact of inaction for businesses from a communication standpoint going back again to your career now, but your earlier career as well is diversity leaders in the role of crisis communication, because no organization, no CEO, no board will ever, ever, ever say do you know what diversity I don't believe in that? They nod their heads, they agree, and then it is like you say it is the actions, not the words they speak that makes you sit there, scratch your chin and go hmm, hang on a minute. They clearly didn't really mean what they say. However, the headlines, which still just as bad, but when you see these negative headlines of people having to step down, or the well publicized kind of Barilla and KPMG's former chair saying unconscious bar training is a load of crap to 1500 people, and then step down and think, oh my God, who is advising this man? How could this happen? All of a sudden, money is being thrown at it. Oh, diversity is the most important thing ever. We saw it with Draggy Olandro, the debacle of the trans debate in the manufacturing site. She won the case.
Speaker 1:What about the impact of inaction? As opposed to going into crisis communications mode? Because we're seeing the statistics for crisis communication around diversity increasing? So it's like, well, isn't it better to invest in it now than suffer that issue later on down the line, thinking, oh, it'll never happen to me, but it will At some point that will happen. If you're not investing in it, at least you have the power. That is the need to go. Well, do you know what? We've been investing in hypo programs for the last five years or whatever, as opposed to suddenly this travesty hits the headline. One of you exact has to step down. All of a sudden, you're spending more money than you've ever spent before on it.
Speaker 2:Well, it's what's so interesting about people who claim to be smart and wise business people who are attacking the idea of diversity, often like from the outside, and basically trying to goad or threaten others to not be in this. This is actually essential for the survival of a company, so there is not a and you said it earlier the idea of this being like a nice tab or it's the right thing to do. Sure, okay, but it's essential actually for the survival and the sustainability of a business. There is very little out there that would not be impacted by the fact that we have a growing, first of all, generation of people who expect to have a diverse, equitable and inclusive environment when they're going to work. There are people who are the economic heft of, like people who are buying the marketplace.
Speaker 2:It is essential, and so, in a situation like being at the top of whatever industry you're in, there is nothing that can happen if you are working within a like just narrow, myopic with a narrow, myopic group of people. And part of what it seems like these entities that are trying to force the issue of removing or making people feel uncomfortable about talking about diversity is they want them to fail, because that is what will happen. Inactivity leads to failure. It really leads to stagnation, which is ultimately failure. Right, it is not growth, it is not transformation and it's absolutely not innovative. It's inaction is you watch everyone rush by and you're sitting there until you disappear and no one remembers you.
Speaker 1:Totally, totally. It's like the example you gave before about the ramps you take the ramp away for everyone else. If you're not moving forward in the digital world that we live in, you're going backwards, you're failing and will perish into non-existence. It's very kind of like we're talking Darwinism now. It's like survival of the fittest.
Speaker 2:Well, it's a certain thing in the spinal that is the smartest.
Speaker 2:I don't mean that as an alinas way, but certainly people. If you're not thinking about who's not here but should be, and who's not using this product but needs to, and why aren't they? And not trying to figure that out, what are you doing? The other example that is often used is just on that lift all boats is captioning, post captioning in television. That was made for people who had difficulty hearing. Think about who uses that and who benefits from that. People who are learning the language that's being captioned. People who we now know who have ADHD, are very much wedded to the idea of post captioning when they're watching television. Some kind of content. That understanding is what actually makes us smarter and that makes us think huh, what other product would be more inclusive and bring more people to either my network or to my business or to my car, whatever we're selling? I think, in the absence of that, inaction leads you to be again sitting there watching everyone run right by you.
Speaker 1:I stand to the beginning of this podcast. Oh, we'll only be 20 minutes. We've been nearly an hour. Because I love, oh my God, I'm going to ask you one lightning round question. Or maybe I'll wrap it up, although it doesn't sound like your younger self really needed any advice. However, I will ask if you were going to give your younger self advice, what might you have said? And also, what is what's success to you? Before we wrap up, Well.
Speaker 2:So what I would say, and I would say to people who are again starting their career as well, is things aren't linear, nothing. It's just. There's a winding road that starts to become additive to what you're bringing first what you're bringing to the table and then what you're gathering to make your next step better. But it's not necessarily a straight line, and that's OK. I again, as I started with, I wanted to be a diplomat and I graduated in the middle of a recession and ended up not being a diplomat but going to Washington DC to get closer to the diplomats, and I was the secretary for the general counsel of the Children's Defense Fund and that changed, in my view, the trajectory of my career and it was incredible. It was Marion Wright Edelman, who's a leader in Child Advocacy, is an iconic leader in Child Advocacy and was incredible in leading the charge on child poverty in America, and in fact, we were working on the UN rights, on the convention of the child at that time. And that experience led me back to Tufts University to get my public policy degree.
Speaker 2:But it was not the line that I thought why I was following, that I was meant to follow, and it absolutely brought me to where I am now. So nothing is linear. It's the advice I would give my younger self, and success is constantly learning. I learn every day, and I think that is why I'm curious. I'm curious, I'm interested and I'm also learning. It's not. If I'm stagnant and I think I know everything, and I think I know all that I need to know, I will be one of those entities watching everyone run by me and quickly becoming the voice that is unhelpful in the room, and that is something that I do not want ever.
Speaker 1:Alison, thank you so much. I always love talking to you and I could talk to you quite easily in a couple of minutes. Frankly, it has been a tremendous conversation. I have learned such a lot and I know that everyone else will have as well. Just a few snippets of things that I've taken away are shifting mindset, systems, change, the need, the absolute need for this as an imperative, being in lockstep and helping people do things, the economic health the women and minorities need, being incredibly flexible. You said right there at the end that this is not a linear path, and certainly the role of the Chief Diversity Officer, the role that we play as leaders in our own life, is not linear, but actually I'm doing our very best to help people, to use pushback when we hear rhetoric around negativity, to continue to be tenacious, to be horizon, scanning off the headlines, but also to help businesses do well by doing good through diversity, through innovation, through our actions and not our words. Just a few snippets. I could go on, but, alison, thank you. It's just been wonderful to have you.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. This was great. It's always lovely to talk with you and love spending time with like minds. Wow, it's nice.
Speaker 1:Thank you. My name is Layla McKenzie-Delis. I'm the Founder and CEO of Dial Global. You are listening to the Diversting, inclusive Leaders podcast. We've been joined today by the fantastic Alison Reedy Williamson, chief Diversity and Culture Officer and President of Makers for Yahoo. If you've been affected by any of the matters in today's show, make sure you write to us. Otherwise, you can check us out on your favorite podcast download, be it Apple, spotify, whichever platform you may use. Otherwise, visit us at wwwdialglobalorg. Forward slash podcast.