Driving Equality: How AutoTrader's CEO Nathan Coe Champions D&I for Business Success

As a parent, witnessing your child encounter barriers can ignite a passion for change that resonates far beyond the confines of home. That's precisely what happened to Nathan Coe, CEO of AutoTrader, when he saw his daughters confront gender biases. On our show, Nathan walks us through his awakening to the realities of diversity and inclusion, illustrating how these revelations have transformed AutoTrader into a beacon of equality, offering lessons that extend to us all about the essence of leadership in today's ever-evolving workplace.

With roots firmly planted in the working class, Nathan's journey to the helm of AutoTrader is a narrative of ambition, defying societal expectations, and the relentless pursuit of a culture steeped in positivity and social mobility. In our intimate conversation, he peels back the layers of traditional CEO roles, advocating for a leadership style that prizes trust and personal connection over top-down commands. This approach, he argues, is not only more aligned with today's societal needs but also carves a path for a new era of empowered, engaged teams and leaders who truly listen.

The synergy between diversity and commercial success is a tune Nathan knows by heart. AutoTrader stands as a testament to the potent blend of CEO activism with business strategy, demonstrating the genuine integration of diversity into the DNA of a company's objectives. This episode peels back the curtain on how diversity and inclusion are much more than just buzzwords but rather, the driving force behind a thriving, forward-thinking enterprise. Nathan's insights challenge us to consider how embedding these values into our businesses is not just a moral imperative but a strategic edge in a landscape that demands balance, innovation, and a deep respect for every individual's contribution.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello and welcome to the CEO Activist podcast. This is a show where I have the opportunity to meet with some of the world's most inspirational leaders of today. We're going to be talking about why diversity is a commercial lever for economic growth and prosperity, why putting the S in ESG is so tremendously important. I'm joined today by Nathan Coe, who is the CEO of AutoTrader. He's going to be talking us through his journey up to the top, from Sydney to the UK to now being at the helm of one of the UK's most well-known organisations. Nathan, it is a pleasure to see you. I know that I have had the opportunity to meet with you now a number of times, but each and every time you have struck me as a true CEO activist, and so I'd love you to share a little bit about how you came to be where you are today and what CEO activism means to you.

Speaker 2: 1:06

Cool. Well, thank you for having me, layla. I think it's quite a long story actually as to how the way that I feel about diversity, inclusion, belonging has evolved. And I'd say, probably like lots of people actually, I grew up in very much a majority in Australia white, six foot, blonde hair, typical kind of Australian person, very confident, never any reason to really question myself, and so you kind of assumed everyone else had exactly the same experience of life. You never, would never consciously say that because it would be ridiculous, you know, but we don't really ask these ourselves, these questions, when we're interacting with people as well. Perhaps their experience is completely different from mine and that means that they show up differently. So, you know, I would say I probably grew up, you know, as ignorant, as the average person perhaps, or certainly average person that comes from my background, just assuming that you know.

Speaker 2: 2:04

This is what the world looks like to everyone, and I think for me where it really started was having young girls. I've now got one that's aged 11, one that's aged 15. But when they were very, very young, I noticed in their school life I saw little signs of things happening where actually they were having a very, very different experience to me and very small things, like my daughter loves playing football. So she went to go and play on the football field, bought a football for her and her girlfriend's but was told quickly that no, we're only allowed one football on the playing field. So and the boys had the football and the boys didn't want to play with the girls. So that meant effectively, that rule meant that girls couldn't play football at lunch times. And I know that sounds very small and trivial, but then you look at, you know things like voting for class representatives and those sorts of things in classes where the majority of the class are boys and it tended to be all the class reps were boys and I started seeing these patterns where I was like, hang on, this just doesn't feel merit based or fair in any sense of the word. Why are people not seeing this? Why are people not doing something about it?

Speaker 2: 3:17

So it was really that personal experience that really started to you know, I'm ashamed to say in a sense started to really get me to start paying attention to. Well, hang on, maybe the way that people are showing up or, of course, the way people are showing up is massively driven by their experience, and actually all of us have very, very different experiences and we need to take that into account, particularly if we're judging merit, you know, because something as simple as extraversion or introversion could be massively impacted by you know, if you've spent your life being told no, you can't play football, no, you can't do this, girls do this, or people from this race are like this, or all those sorts of assumptions that can be plonked on people that tend to be wrong and get in the way of working out people that might actually, in my case, from a work sense although this is as big for me from a personal sense people that might be great for your organisation. And then I think it was about actually on my journey. It then kind of just cascaded into more and more aspects of humans that can be different.

Speaker 2: 4:18

So there was the Black Lives Matter campaign that kind of kicked off and that led me to lead, get much more build my understanding of ethnicity and race and how that shows up and how people are impacted by and what's the history of it in this country, what's the history of it in my own country, and I would just say that for me, this whole question of the way people show up and how that's impacted by where they've come from is just a massive area of curiosity and I think, as we've unlocked that at Auto Trader and I wouldn't put it down to me I've learnt as much from my organisation as I've contributed to it.

Speaker 2: 4:54

We've found actually there are loads and loads of people that are really, really amazing and wanting to do a really, really amazing job. And if you kind of take into account those differences between us and work towards building a unified community around those differences, then actually your organisation whether it's hiring, whether it's performance, whether it's promotion, all those things you just get a lot more choices than other organisations have, because you're providing a stage for people to be able to perform and not be impacted by many of those things that might have held them back at different stages of their life. So it's quite a long answer, but it's been a long journey and it's kind of gone on from there.

Speaker 1: 5:37

It's a fantastic answer, though, and I think, how you describe this, it's almost been an evolutionary journey of learning through all of these different intersections of diversity and what that means. You know your own cultural background, obviously coming from Australia, the different nuances coming here over to the UK and then obviously now being in the position of CEO, where actually there is a real need to be paying attention to not just the growing pool of stakeholders needs, but also investors needs, community needs, customer needs, employee needs. You know the list is almost endless. I would love just to take it a little bit back to when you were in Australia and your career journey. Did you always have in your mind's eye that you wanted to be a CEO? Because obviously you went from CFO to COO into the CEO role. Was that something you aspired to from the early days?

Speaker 2: 6:37

Kind of yes and no actually, and I would say I probably had more conviction about it earlier in my life, when we're at university and we know everything about everything, and you think you know I'd love to be a great chief executive but and I was like that, I wanted to do business, and I'll explain a little bit why that was. I think there are really two reasons behind it. I do have a bit of a chip on my shoulder and it's nothing to do with being Australian at all. I came from a family where you know working class. My dad was a draftsman, my mum was a nurse. No one in my family had ever been to university. So there was a side to me that and I don't really know who I was shaking my fist at but I used to listen a lot to bands like Rage Against the Machine. So I am a bit of a non-conformist, I guess is probably the polite term for it. So there was a side to me that wanted to just say you know what I'm going to do it? I'm going to be the first one to go to university, be the first one to, you know, maybe earn more than the average wage in my family, because no one had done that. So there's a side to me that just is drawn to disproving people, even though there's no one I can point to. That was well, I probably can point to a few people in my past from school that you know were definitely non-believers in Nathan that you know. Hopefully, my life has become a kind of a. Well, there you go. See, I did do it. So there was partly that.

Speaker 2: 7:59

Interestingly, I would say that over time I didn't and I don't think it's healthy to necessarily say at that age I just want to become a CEO because you think well, in theory, well, everyone just wants to, should just want to become a CEO because that's the Top of some business tree. I think, as time went on, I would say I pursued that a lot, lot less and a lot less intentionally, and that actually happened pretty early, once I started working. I did want to do well, I did want to disprove people, but I realized that you know, you can't. Not everyone can be the CEO. So what I focused on is just working harder than the next person, learning more than the next person and retaining more, more knowledge than the next person.

Speaker 2: 8:45

So and then I'd say, over time it just became more natural that, as I did those things, I love leading people, I like people, I like trying to make different things happening happen, I like thinking about culture and a lot of those things you can only really impact, you know, big way as a chief executive. So that almost became a means to an end. Actually, I wanted to make a difference. I wanted to do something that mattered. I wanted to try to create an organization where people, people felt hugely engaged. It was people orientated but at the same time really performed well and that kind of bucket of things you can only really do as CEO. So it did change a lot, initially the goal, but then actually it just became the means to the means to an end in the end.

Speaker 1: 9:26

Thank you so much for sharing that. It resonates such a lot and it's fascinating the amount of CEOs that I speak to who have that sense of vulnerability and that sense of I've got to prove something here which ultimately, as you describe is, that is an incredible story of upward social mobility, another facet of of diversity, which is incredibly important. It's something that sits below the surface as well.

Speaker 1: 9:53

You know, I have a great issue with the, the terminology male, pale and stale, and it can often yeah, you know you know it gets a little chuckle, but at the same time, diversity is so much more than what meets the eye and it is yeah, no, it goes below and the surface level. Social mobility is absolutely at the core of driving better economies and driving better business for good for all. And and I mean it makes me think actually of the, the modern CEO, which, of course, you are a very modern CEO, ford, thinking innovative. But what do modern CEOs need to be considering when it comes to, you know, staying abreast of the curve, because I think you know the great thing about yourself and others that I've had that the fortunate opportunity of interviewing is. You know these days of the kind of the, the hierarchical kind of why ivory tower office is over now.

Speaker 1: 10:53

Yeah you know there's so much more of an expectation of leaders to be, at times, vulnerable and to share. You know where they have come from and the why and the purpose behind what it is that they are doing.

Speaker 2: 11:05

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a massive question and there in lives the the mystery of what it takes to be a great CEO, and I certainly wouldn't pretend to be able to have the list of you know. These are all the things that you've got to do. Well, I think there is. You know, there are lists, and I read a lot and I study a lot and obviously think about my role a lot. I think it does change in different circumstances, but I think there are some Fundamentals in terms of staying abreast. I think one of the biggest things for me is that If you think about leadership and maybe take politics as the most extreme example of this, at the end of the day, many people do get a job, a CEO job, and they can kind of impose their will on the Organization and tell people what to do, and that's not really going to be a very engaging place. So my view of leadership is actually and almost the the success of your leadership will be down to well, how strongly do your people trust you? Do they vote for you, as they have to in in politics, you know? Do they trust your decisions? Do they trust that you've got their interests in mind? Do they trust you enough that they'll put in. You know they'll be vulnerable. They'll put their best effort in, they'll be fully engaged. They'll make sure that they take on, you know, those small decisions that happen all throughout an organization. They'll make that right decision and they'll take that risk. So I think at the end of the day, for me one of the most fundamental elements is, as a leader, do your people trust you and the extent to which that's true? I think people will follow you. You know a very, very, a very, very long way, but at the same time you've got to give them good reason to to follow you. So it's not like you can kind of be the pied pipe or you've got their trust. Now let's go and do this thing over there. I think the actions also Feed into feeding to trust.

Speaker 2: 12:49

And the other thing I think I would say that you know You've seen catch out a lot of businesses and CEOs is the Moral imperatives around. Business are just really really high actually, and you are even though we're not politicians at all, we are big public leaders. In the case of auto trailer, it's a public company. You are expected to be role models and you're expected to run your businesses in a way that is net positive to society, just making more money this year over last, you know, the ask is so much, so much bigger than that now and I think, interestingly, some people say, well, that sounds like that's all the lords businesses should be about. Making money.

Speaker 2: 13:29

That's kind of the invisible hand of capitalism and I don't think the two things are at odds with each other and I think that sits around a lot of the work that you do, that actually really really good business Will result in really really good results. It can't necessarily, I think, if you are pursuing profit at the expense of you know, whether it's employing engagement or making sure that you've got a diverse group of people, tackling problems actually will only be true for a certain amount of time. And we've seen, you know, when these things like culture, like Engagement, like diversity and inclusion, when these things are neglected over very, very long periods of time, you tend to see culture suffers, and that's when bad things are. Bad things happen with businesses. I really do believe that to be true and, of course, I believe the opposite of it to be true as well, which, if you really really invest in very, very good foundations and over time, the business will perform very, very well.

Speaker 1: 14:29

You've picked up on some really valuable points and what I'm hearing is that the two are not mutually exclusive. No, diversity, inclusion, belonging, equity, culture it's a living, it's a breathing, it's a sleeping thing, as you've articulated, they're perfectly and ultimately, diversity as this commercial lever for economic growth and prosperity is something that marries up together. Doing well through fostering trust of the people within the organizations and the stakeholders that are involved, but then also making sure this is not performative. You know this is about not only the words but, as you have and auto trader has, is putting actions Behind those words and those imperatives.

Speaker 2: 15:14

Yeah, I think that's absolutely right, and I think, from my perspective, the words don't change anything actually. So if you are doing words, I suspect what you're probably doing is creating a rod for your own back and then getting none of the benefit of it. So so which I don't see much point to it at all, and I do think the two things do go hand in hand, and for me it's relatively simple. Actually, auto trader operates predominantly in Manchester and London. You know, those communities are very, very, very diverse. If we want the best people, then we need to create an environment where as many people as possible will be attracted to AutoTrader and feel like it's a place where they can do their best work, and if we do that really, really well, then we will probably attract people from within communities that will otherwise not feel safe at other organizations or not even feel really interested in it.

Speaker 2: 16:07

I'd say the number one reason why people say they join AutoTrader is its culture. Now, I think over time they also like the work that we do. They like the technology aspect to the business. You know, those things are all good, but the reason why they join is predominant of culture, because that is the dominant aspect of an employees experience. So I think if you do get that right, then, as I mentioned earlier, and I think we see this you find it easier to hire people than other organizations will be able to do. People do better work, so you end up getting people promoted and developing throughout the organization and you retain more people as well.

Speaker 2: 16:43

And recruiting and losing people.

Speaker 2: 16:46

They are very, very expensive business decisions. So actually if you can do that quite well and we don't do it because of the economics, we haven't written a business case around it, we just think it's the right thing to do and, like lots of things, we think if we do the right thing then it will show up in the results. But if you start to unpick it, actually I would say making sure all of our communities, even if it's from a national level, but even within business make sure all communities feel like this is a place where they can do well and there's opportunities for them that they can aspire to and there's support there to help them develop into those opportunities. And that has to be very obviously good for economic growth, because more of the community, more of the population, whatever, are able to be productive and get into roles where they can kind of do their very finest work because otherwise they just wouldn't be doing it.

Speaker 2: 17:34

So for me it's almost mathematical QED. We get more people involved doing their very finest work, that means more good stuff coming out of the UK or more good stuff coming out of auto trader and everyone's happy. But I'll admit there is a hint of idealism to that which is, and the reality is gritty and hard to make. That happen is no, it's much easier said than done.

Speaker 1: 17:58

But I think there's always a hint of idealism and we must be positively optimistic when we see everything happening in the world, with kind of geopolitical challenges, lots and lots of I think it's 70 elections which are happening around the globe. Trying to find that stability in a storm and maintaining optimism for the people within your organizations is so, so, very important. And it really touches me that you talk about the you know this not just being a return on investment. You know, for many leaders and certainly us in the diversity, inclusion, belonging space, you know we're hearing oh, what's the return on investment? What's the return on investment? And what you've described there is actually. What's the impact of inaction if we are not to be driving things forward?

Speaker 1: 18:50

There is unwavering, unwavering data and research that shows there is a business case for all of these things, from diverse suppliers right the way through diversity within marketing, representing all. But there are still the odd one or two leaders, you know, like the Elon Musk's of the world, who, when I read headlines like DEI must die, it made me want to die inside and I thought, oh my God. You know we really now, even more than ever, we must have great leaders like yourself and others who are standing up and being even more vocal about why this is so important to future generations of leaders in the workplace and you know, your daughter's, my 19 month old baby, and so on and so forth because there's so much caring there for this to be important.

Speaker 2: 19:41

Yeah well, and I think you know I can understand that's definitely how you'd feel when you hear something like that. And I think there's a real. There's a real conflict actually, and it comes back to something you said earlier, I think when these you know a lot of this has been imposed in regulation or in corporate governance codes and then got a report against this and report that, and I think if you do approach that, you know, get the words right, it's another box to tick. The problem is, I can see that it's. I can see why some people might say, well, this is just onerous and it's, it's for no good. And I think the point I make is that, actually, if you pursue the substance of the thing, which, at the end of the day, is a belief that you want to ensure that you provide an environment where anyone of any background can do their very finest work, and you want to ensure that, within your organization, when you're talking about stuff, products, to launch marketing campaigns, whatever it might be, that you have a diverse group of people around the table, and that means diversity in the, you know the biggest sense of the word. You want diverse views being thrown into something, have a big kind of argument and debate and you'll emerge the other side with a better point of view. I find it very difficult to believe that actually having everyone that's exactly the same getting in a room and making a decision is going to be better than having a diverse group of people having that very same debate and coming up with a conclusion. So I think the problem is if it feels like a box ticking exercise. If it's treated as a box ticking exercise, it is onerous, it is difficult and that's, you know, might be why you get, you know, people expressing skepticism.

Speaker 2: 21:20

I think if you take it at the heart of it, as a, you know, a fundamental kind of moral imperative, then actually the benefits I mean AutoTrade will be a very, very different company if we hadn't pursued these things. And I could say in all cases, you know we get hit by the onerous obligations and we've got to. You know there are elements to our reporting that we've got to do. You know lots and lots of different things that we might not otherwise do, but actually, because we're taking the principle of it kind of very, very seriously, the fact that we've got to report a couple of things, actually, if anything, we tend to under-report on the stuff that we do, because we're not doing it for reporting from a reporting perspective.

Speaker 2: 21:58

But if you do a, pursue the heart of these things and you really focus on you know cradle to grave within your career at AutoTrade, if we can get these things right, we're bringing diverse groups of people and providing them with an opportunity to excel, and then we end up with, you know, truly diverse leadership teams making the making decisions that really really matter to the company. Then you just will be better off. As I said, to me it's kind of quite a common sense thing but it is not about. You know it requires, you know it is probably less work to do the box ticking but it is just onerous and there is no real return on it. But if you put in the hard yards, actually, you know, the return is kind of there and, I think, reasonably easy to bet on.

Speaker 1: 22:42

And what we're seeing is this really well, I say some makeshift, but for the last decade we've seen the EB kind of the shining, shining light of ESG. Analysts are saying that the S will be what the E is being over the last decade and when we analyzed a lot of the different reporting standards and things like this diversity and inclusion, belonging equity culture in one guys or another, dei, ind.

Speaker 1: 23:08

I know there's many different different anagrams for this fell into that S, and that's something that you're doing fantastically well at AutoTrade, because, ultimately, this stakeholder group of investors who is investing in organizations that are purpose driven is growing, which, seemingly, we're kind of we're going through the eye of the storm right now and will come out the other end, especially knowing that frameworks like the wealth economy, which measures things that you have mentioned beyond just wealth as GDP or USD, we're looking at human capital, knowledge capital, social capital, people capital, which is everything you stand for. Talk to us a little bit about the S and the importance of that and some of the examples that you are doing so brilliantly well at AutoTrade.

Speaker 2: 23:52

Well, I'd start by saying I don't think we're perfect, but we're trying very hard. I think it is interesting. I think it is. There are good reasons to believe that what you say is true. It's interesting that the new UK Corporate Governance Code has just been released for 2024 and it does call out specifically boards needing to pay attention to the diversity and inclusion within their organization. So I definitely think it is.

Speaker 2: 24:20

You know, it is moving that way, and ESG for many, many years felt like it was very, very E and a bit of G heavy and the S was kind of lost in there. So I think there is, and I think there's very good reason for that, because when you do look at things like the code or you look at why they get to these now they end up being a code that you need to comply with or explain why you're not complying with it. So it can be, well, this is a box, we've got a tick, but if you look at the language that they use around supporting it, it's actually you know, any business person would kind of say these things that you know a good culture. You know an organization needs to ensure that its purpose, its strategy and its culture are all aligned and that it's taking into account the diverse views of all stakeholders. And the way that you do that is through diverse teams. So the way that they talk about it is very, very common sense. And I think very often you know the DE and I stuff is pulled out, or the S is pulled out very specifically. But the reality is why it's important, why it works, why there is a return on it, is if you don't get all those bits aligned in an organization, from your purpose to your strategy, to your culture you probably won't execute well and you probably won't generate good long-term results. That can go on forever.

Speaker 2: 25:34

So in that sense I think it is a rebalancing and these things tend to. You know you find that they kind of flare up and become very, very big and then they find kind of a bit more of a not middle grounds not the right word but they find some place in the balance of things. It can't just all be about the environment, it can't just all be about the yes, it can't all be about you know nothing to do with financial performance. Actually, at the end of the day, I think my belief is, if you get these things right and you get them in balance, then actually you will just generate better results for a long period of time.

Speaker 2: 26:07

But you want to be careful to ensure that these things do retain a relationship with one another and aren't kind of. You know, they're all about creating a better organization that ultimately performs better, is a better experience for its people, and those things don't ever need to be in conflict. Actually, they're probably, I would argue. You know, it's all about getting all rows. You know all rows rowing in the same direction, and I think that's where the S kind of falls in. I would argue the E as well, although that's I think it's a little more complicated depending on what type of organization you are.

Speaker 1: 26:43

Nathan, I'd love to ask you, because CEO activism is and the word activism itself, I think, is actually, you know, it can be at times controversial, but here at Darl we love to be provocative. Actually, we believe that there is a very real need for positive activism when it comes to CEOs and them driving the message across all stakeholder groups, because without true buy-in from the CEO, it's very difficult to actually move the dial in the right direction. Talk to us about what CEO activism means to you, and if there are any other CEOs who are listening or on the fence thinking this is something which is, it's something that is yet another box to take, what would you say to them? Because we need more people like you.

Speaker 2: 27:29

Yeah, I mean, I think the activism word is controversial actually, because, you know, I know my job is to run auto trader and you know that doesn't necessarily mean using that organisation to impose my political views on the rest of the world, because actually, ultimately, auto trader and I are a separate thing. But what I can do and where I think it's right is, you know, activism is about taking action and actually I believe there's a moral imperative around the stuff that we're talking about. But I think there's a very good business imperative and we've seen that at auto trader. We've invested in these areas, we've taken action and it's worked out really well for us. So in that sense, I think, to be honest, the job of a CEO is to be action orientated, is to be, you know, active and an activist around the purpose of your organisation and about the culture of your organisation. So I get comfortable with it there, I think. But you do need to be part of the broader conversation to spread. Well, why is this important and why could it be a really positive thing for you to do within your organisation?

Speaker 2: 28:38

I think at the moment, certainly in the early days and you'll know this even better than me there were lots of people talking about the problem. Lots of people talking about, you know, the lack of women leaders on footsie boards or the lack of ethnic diversity in boards or in leadership teams, but there was very, very few people we found actually talking about. All right, so what do you do other than just keep reporting? Or, you know, go out and hire a woman on your board without necessarily, you know, overemphasising that diversity characteristic, without taking into account merit, because the irony of all these things is you don't need to compromise merit to have diversity. You're probably missing people that are very, very good if you apply the same, if you apply the same lens to the world. So I think for me, it is about making sure that you know I'm only talking about the things that we've done in auto trade that my big focus is on actually really driving this within my organisation and being open and available enough to speak to other people and speak to people like you and in the forums that you create to advocate. You know this is a better way and it's just better morally. It's better for our broader economy, it's better for our broader society and, guess what? It's probably better for your business as well, and I can explain to you how it works at auto trader and you can come and speak to some people at auto trader, because they wouldn't.

Speaker 2: 30:02

You know, we're beyond that even being a question at all. Actually. I mean, it's so clearly a part of what we do and why we've been successful that that question is well and truly in the rear vision mirror for us. But I realise for a lot of people it's right front and centre and kind of making them ask questions as to all you know, is this just about people being woke or people just imposing their own personal views on things? And I don't, you know. I think they're all the right questions set to go through. But on the other side of it, I think there's a really meaningful job that we can do within our organisations to make them better places for people and perform better as well over time. And you know that's something I'm willing to. You know, I guess that's my role I see as being a CEO activist is making sure that you're sharing those stories, but not overstepping the mark as well and respecting, you know, what society might want your views on and what they might not want your views on.

Speaker 1: 30:55

That makes absolute sense and it is striking the balance which I think that you have done so beautifully actually is being willing to lend your voice, to lend your support, to lend your allyship, which you have done but equally saying look, diversity, inclusion, belonging, equity, culture is everyone's responsibility. Yes, of course it's. My responsibility is that the CEO to be, you know, an active promoter of this, because it drives engagement, equals better business sense and profitability, but equally, it is things that our investors, our shareholders, also care about. So how do you strike that balance between actually, you know, diversity as a commercial lever for the economic growth imperative, but also doing just as you said right to start with? This is about just doing the right thing and believing in it, because actually, where we help one, we help many others as well, and the two do not need to be mutually exclusive.

Speaker 2: 31:57

Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. So my answer to the question is I don't strike that balance at all. What we do is we really really believe as we do at AutoTrader? I mean, it's very much part of the culture of our business and has been for years and years and years back when we were a magazine business and now we're a technology business, even though it's a kind of commercial imperative, but all happen from the same thing. We will get our heads around, you know, something that we believe will be really, really good for the organisation, and we pursue it, you know, with a commitment and a verb that I think is very, very unusual. That's what makes AutoTrader and over the years, we've shown that those decisions have, by and large, been right not always right, but actually you know, the organisation now, you know, compared with when I joined it, you know, 15 years ago, is probably, you know, six times larger than it was at that time.

Speaker 2: 32:50

So it's kind of worked out alright and I think, when it comes to, you know, diversity, inclusion, making sure people feel like they can do their very best work when I became CEO back in March 2020 which timing could have been perhaps a little bit better, because that's obviously when lockdowns happened, one of the things that I really wanted to take further. We were early on that journey. We've done a pretty good job of some foundational actions when it related to gender, but I really wanted to push that further, and that was not in and of itself, it was because I really believed you could create organisations that were fulfilling and great for human beings to work in and weren't you know, the Dilbert cartoons and the office kind of show, you know didn't need to be ridiculous. We can create places that are fun, engaging, good, that people from all races and religions and all aspects of diversity can come together, learn more about each other, do really, really good business together and get very, very good results. So for me, my point is there is no balance. Actually, you, I think you can take some, I think you can put things out of balance, but there's not a conflict where it's kind of where we need a bit more profit, so let's do a bit more less diversity, inclusion, I think all those things for us.

Speaker 2: 34:05

I think this is the best thing about what we do. It doesn't always work perfectly for reporting purposes and all those sorts of things, because you know, very often a good example would be pay gap reporting. Actually, if you're actually really going to do this, your pay gaps are going to increase for a while because you need to bring in people at the lower levels of the organisation and then enable them to come up. So actually, you know, it's not as straightforward and as easy as I say. I think very often the external reporting might actually go against you, even though you're doing the right thing.

Speaker 2: 34:36

But I don't think it is a matter of balance. I just believe you know organisations that have the pick of the whole of society, that can choose anyone because they've got an environment where those people feel like they'd be comfortable, that they want to join and they could do really fine work once they get in there and they don't feel intimidated or left out or on the edge of the organisation. You know that group of people like a sporting team. They're just going to be more engaged, more and work better as a team. And guess what? That's what generally drives good business results, with a big dose of external factors that we have to take into account as we do our day to day.

Speaker 1: 35:14

Talent is everywhere and opportunity is not, but there is opportunity, given all of these great things that you're doing from a holistic point of view because, as you say, driving engagement, I think. I heard a statistic the other day those that are in the minority in any situation spend 30% of their time worrying about how they fit in and so all of this work drives and leads to better performance, better results, better engagement and a far happier or fun working environment.

Speaker 2: 35:44

I mean, I really I love that statistic and I haven't heard it before and the thing I really like about it is it takes the politics out of this. It takes the you know, this specific characteristic or ethnicity or race or disability and all that, and just says because I think this is the truth of it. We all know we've all had situations and the truth is some groups have this happens a lot more throughout their lifetimes on average than it does for lots of other groups of people. But we all know when you're on the outside, when you've had a crap decision, when you feel on the back foot, you just lose your flow, your bumble, you don't do. You know you're not nearly as good as what you would be. When you're just not thinking about any of those things, I think the 30% is an understatement.

Speaker 2: 36:30

I think anyone listening to this podcast can think about all right, you know those days where maybe you had the flu, maybe you had a fight with your wife or partner or whatever it might be, maybe you've experienced racism at the bus stop on the way to work, it could be all those things.

Speaker 2: 36:49

You know, when we turn up like that, we just don't do our best work and you know what we're trying to do at Auto Trader and the reason why there is no balance to your previous question is we're just trying to make that thing true. That there is no 30%, and I do. I think that stat is understatement. Many of us, as I said, have been in that situation. I think most people would say you're probably half as effective when you're not on your game, and it is about enabling everyone to be on their game, kind of always accepting that that's never actually going to happen. But if we can make a big difference to it, then you'll be doing well. If we can make sure that someone, because of their ethnicity or sexual orientation, isn't constantly battered with that every single day, then you're going to make a big difference to your organisation. And just you know, fundamental productivity not that it's familiar about business imperative.

Speaker 1: 37:42

Nathan, thank you so much. It has been tremendous. I feel like giving you a big hug actually. I thought that was absolutely fantastic and you know we're so grateful to have had you on the show and grateful for CEOs and leaders like you that believe and also care, because that transcends across organisations and serves not only as role models, but as real models, as we like to call leaders at.

Speaker 1: 38:07

Dahl because you walk in the walk and talk, and talk, and you are doing everything you can. You're aware that it is an evolution, but you never keep. You never let the foot off the gas when it comes to momentum, because this is so important.

Speaker 2: 38:20

No well, we're not perfect, but we're trying hard and actually I've got a great organisation. The work that the organisation has done in this area you know I can only speak on their behalf, let alone taking any personal credit so it's a big shout out to all of them as well. Thank you Thanks.

Speaker 1: 38:37

Well, I think that we can all agree that that was a fantastic interview with Nathan, and there were so many pieces that really resonated with me personally from him having two daughters and really wanting to inspire and educate them as they go throughout their career journey, right the way through to not only being a role model, but to being a real model. Those of today must practice what they preach. This is not just about the words, but it is also about the actions, and we can see that this has played out really well at auto trader through driving engagement, from not only looking at gender parity through to really championing LGBTQ plus and transcending the importance of inclusion across the entire stakeholder community, right the way up to investors, as Nathan pointed out. If you'd like to listen to other CEO activists in action, make sure you tune in to our podcast. You can visit us at wwwdarlglobalorg. Forward slash podcast or Apple Spotify or your favourite podcast channel. My name is Layla McKenzie-Dellers, founder of CEO of Darglobal, and I'm looking forward to seeing you again very soon.