Inclusive Leaders & CEO Impact Podcast by DIAL Global
Bi-weekly podcast show featuring conversations with inspiring thought leaders of today, unearthing their unique stories of inclusion, belonging, equity, talent, culture and social impact.
Inclusive Leaders & CEO Impact Podcast by DIAL Global
From Retail Trainee to COO: Joanne Pollard on Leadership & Diversity in Student Accommodation
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Ever wondered how a police officer's daughter rose to become the COO of a leading student property company? Hear Joanne Pollard's remarkable journey from her early days to the helm of Empiric Student Property PLC. Joanne opens up about her career path, spanning from Marks & Spencer management trainee to influential roles at Legal & General, Abbey National, and Bupa. This episode is a treasure trove for aspiring leaders, especially women balancing demanding careers with motherhood, as Joanne candidly discusses her shift to the student accommodation sector and its trajectory towards better standards and support for young adults.
We dive deep into the critical issue of increasing ethnic diversity at senior leadership levels. Joanne shares her insights on the systemic barriers that hinder progress and the importance of targeted initiatives like the Parker Review. Learn how authentic leadership and intentional recruitment practices can transform organizational culture. Discover the role of employer branding in driving meaningful change and how collaboration can significantly enhance diversity and inclusion efforts within industries, especially in the Purpose-Built Student Accommodation (PBSA) sector.
Building a sense of community within organizations isn't just a buzzword for Joanne—it's a proven strategy for success. Using Empiric as a case study, she discusses how innovative approaches to student accommodation can foster supportive environments that boost customer satisfaction and commercial success. Joanne’s reflections on the importance of self-belief, determination, and mentorship provide invaluable lessons for anyone aiming for long-term success. Tune in for a compelling conversation that underscores the necessity of sustainability, diversity, and a healthy work-life balance in achieving both personal and professional growth.
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Hello and welcome to Diverse and Inclusive Leaders. This is the show where I speak with the most inspirational and thought-provoking leaders of today and unearth their unique stories of diversity and inclusion to help inspire, educate and motivate others to make the world a better place. Today, I am thrilled to be joined by Joanne Pollard. Joanne is the Chief Operating Officer at Empiric Student Property PLC. She's responsible for everything across the board, from site operations, asset quality, people ops, risk and well-being, as well as procurement. If that wasn't enough, she previously worked at Prime Student Living as the MD. She's got a wealth of experience across the piece within student housing, the wider living sector and held previous roles at Campus Living Villages. This is Fresh and the Mansion Group. Welcome to the show, joanne, thank you, thank you. So I've been excited to have you on listeners a little bit of a journey through from the young Joanne to where you are now in this leadership role, because it's been a fascinating career, from what I understand.
Speaker 2Yes, crikey. Okay, so you know, going way back when I'm the eldest of three daughters, my parents were both serving police officers. When they met didn't have an awful lot of money, but what they had they spent on us and the three of us were very, very loved and very fulfilled and very encouraged to achieve anything that we wanted to do, which was, looking back on it, quite amazing. My sisters have both really achieved in their areas of professionalism as well, which is is great to see sort of three strong women who sort of found their way in the world, so to speak. So I started the world of work when I was 18. I joined Marks and Spencer's as a management trainee and that was a bit of a shock to the system because they sent me to Hull. So if I think about the young adults that we support in sort of PBSA, yes, you know it's a huge change and people are leaving their home and moving into strange surroundings, entering the world of study for the first time. But you have hundreds of people around you who are also going through that journey and it was just me living in Hull. So that was quite character building. And you know, after my time at Marks and Spencers. I worked in recruitment for a while, which was really interesting, and then, I suppose you know, I sort of fell into a role with legal in general as a trainer, which I absolutely loved, and they really took a bit of a risk on me really, because I wasn't sort of regulatory trained and I wasn't a trainer professionally. So I always sort of think back and think, well, what did they see? I don't know what they saw, but I'm very thankful that they saw it because it was a fantastic place to work and really, I suppose, set my career up from there. Really. So I, you know, I had a career in training for probably about four or five years and moved across to what was then Abbey National at the time in a training role.
Speaker 2But at that point I think I had to take a decision as to whether I became a training professional or I wanted to do a bit more, and I wanted to do a bit more. So I um took the opportunity moving to call centre manager management within Abbey National and then became head of operations and moved across to Bupa and managed their business to business operations. It was whilst I was at Bupa I had my two children, which obviously changed my life and then sort of, I suppose, moving on from that, I was chief executive of a low carbon business consultancy for a while, which was amazing. I remember my youngest son telling people that mummy had a job that meant that she saved the world which is something to live up to, I suppose and then moved into student accommodation, probably about 15 years ago and, you know, have really it's a really interesting sector.
Speaker 2It has lots of parallels with other living sectors, sectors, but it is quite unique in a lot of ways. Um, and I've been privileged to be part of this um industry for all of that time and see it really grow and develop and change and, um, you know, just become much more customer centric, much more people centric, um, higher standards of accommodation, higher standards of sort of health and safety and compliance. And, you know, really the sector is now really working with its university partners and its customers to really collectively support young adults who are going through mental health issues or identity crises or anything that affects you when you're young. Yes, we are their accommodation provider, but actually they spend so much time with us. It's so important that we're able to support them alongside their other sort of key support networks as much as we can support them alongside their other sort of key support networks, as much as we can.
Speaker 1Wow, joanne, where do I start? I mean, first of all, I have to say I really appreciate your candor about where you have come to where you are right now. Um, you know, as one of three power women sisters, clearly you've, uh, you've all made the parents very proud indeed. What I find particularly interesting and I think this is something as well that our listeners, um, should definitely take heed of is the fact that you haven't been scared at all to move from sector to sector, and specifically when it comes to diversity and of course, we're going to dig into diversity when it comes to talent and intersectionality and all those wonderful things.
Speaker 1But, being ex recruitment as you were and you know that resonates with me because that's my, my background also is, you find that there is this almost reticence for talent to move sectors because we instantaneously want to see people for whatever reason.
Speaker 1Our employers used to want to see people who would come from the same industry and it was very we've got to have square peg in a square hole situation, um, but, uh, some of the richest learnings and some of the most fantastic talent has had that breadth of experience across the sector in various different roles and, um, you know, going from retail to now, you know well to then moving into low carbon businesses, consultancy, people, talent, to being this coo, this COO role for a listed 250 business, where actually there is the opportunity not just to send the lift back down and to inspire and educate and motivate future generations.
Speaker 1There is also the opportunity to really drive better economic opportunities and development, which I think, given where we're at at the moment, we definitely need more leaders and businesses like yourself, because this is really an inflection point, I think, in the world of work, and future generations certainly do look up to those who are in leadership positions, who practice what they preach, says they do, do as they say, and so on and so forth. So talk to us a little bit more, then, about some of the current work that you're doing, joanne. Then about some of the current work that you're doing, joanne, you're developing a DEI policy. I know this is something which is really important, given you're working across the board with youth within the organisation. It'd be great to talk a little more about kind of the diversity and recruitment and attracting, why it's important to attract those from diverse backgrounds.
Speaker 2Yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, I think life is all about diversity, isn't it? Every gender, every nationality, you know, any group of people that you may have, bring something rich to your organization and and add to it and you are the sum of all of your parts, um, and, as you mentioned in your introduction, um sort of people, um, the people remit sits with me also, and I've been working really closely with um, our head of people to, as you say, start to develop our, our agenda and really look at where we need to focus as a business because, as you'll be more than aware, there are so many different areas you could focus on and I think if you were to take a scattergun approach and try and do everything, you'll probably fall short of everything because you can't possibly give everything the attention it deserves. So we've honed in in terms of our initial approach to key areas that we believe not only resonate with our people but with our customers, so key areas that our customers are telling us that they want either support or understanding or more information on. So we're focusing on gender diversity, ethnic diversity, we're looking at disability, we're looking at neurodiversity, the LGBTQ plus diversity, because this is what our customers are telling us, and some really interesting statistics actually out recently, saying that you know, if, um, if, if our customers um identify themselves as being sort of gender neutral as a group of individuals, they are the most dissatisfied group um of any. And and you sort of think, gosh, well, why is that? Because they're in the same building with the same facilities with you know, all of that is the same, and of course it is.
Speaker 2But then you sort of I suppose it then made me think about some of the implicit um parts of our operation that perhaps, um, you know, don't um cater to that group of people. And you start, you know even things, very basic things, such as how you address people, you know how you identify common facilities and all that type of stuff. And you sort of think, gosh, if you can really embrace that group of individuals and engage with them and understand why they're dissatisfied and what would make them satisfied, what a great, what a great way to sort of change your service offering. And I'm sure, in terms of doing that, you'd actually improve your service offering for everybody else as well, which, of course, is the way that things happen. So I think we're at the beginning of our journey, to be honest with you, and that's quite daunting, actually, because you're sort of looking and thinking, oh gosh, we're not, we're not doing very well. We completed your, your online survey and I was like, oh, we haven't scored very well, but you think, okay, but that's fine, because the first point in any journey is acknowledging that you are on a journey and that's what we're doing as an organization and, um, really trying to, I think, gather information at the moment in terms of understanding, for example, all of the information on our workforce we don't hold that currently and trying to gather information on our customers and understand, you know, all of that, some of which we hold, some of which we don't. But then, equally, I think the big thing for me over the next six months is to see ourselves as others see us Because, to give you an example, leila, we are not a very ethnically diverse organisation.
Speaker 2Certainly, as you look at the more senior levels within the organization, the ethnic representation becomes increasingly sparse. And you know, I've been sort of thinking, well, why? Why is that? You know what? What is causing that? And then you start to start to talk to people, for example, who recruit in the PBSA sector, and you're sort of thinking. Well, this isn't actually just an empiric issue. This is something that happens across pbsa. And why is that? Because if you take pbsa has been a sub-sector of hospitality as an example, then you know that's a very racially diverse industry across all levels. So you know, we're looking to do some work with some recruitment partners to really help, you know, understand what's not quite hitting the mark. Why are we not attracting people to apply for roles within our organisation? Because that's the starting point. It's almost like the funnel, isn't it? You need to fill the top of the funnel, and so you know that's very exciting.
Speaker 2Obviously, as a FTSE 250, we have some mandatory obligations on us. You know, you'll be aware of the Parker Review, which requires us to set targets and have diversification at all levels, up to board level as well. But this is this is the beginning of a journey, and you know it's been really interesting to kick off some of those conversations internally and make sure that we're focusing on the right things and that we focus on the areas that are really important and don't focus on on areas that might distract us from the really important areas. Um, one of our board members, um, uh, gave us some really good feedback recently. She was like you know, you could do lots of things. That would be great, but you need to do the things that will be really impactful initially, because once you start to make an impact in a change, you run that positive sort of momentum and things will then inevitably follow on from there.
Speaker 2So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to working with you and your team on helping us guide our way through that journey follow on from there. So, so, yeah, I'm really looking forward to working with you and your team on helping us guide our way through that journey. Um, and, yeah, very much sort of, you know, looking to do an awful lot of um, yeah, you know, as I said, thinking about what, what, how people perceive us and why they perceive us in that way, and making sure that we are seen as an inclusive, um, transparent, welcoming organization, which I absolutely believe that we are. Um, both for people who are working with us, people who are thinking of working with us, customers who are living with us and thinking.
Speaker 1I believe that the, the perception piece is absolutely critical, and you know you mentioned both being transparent and welcoming there. I'm not saying this because I am biased, but I think the acquisition of yourself as talent in this role and being very, very transparent is a huge, huge win. In particular, when we see more and more employers, businesses, look towards employer brand, not only when it comes to talent, but also when it comes to customers, when we look at, kind of the importance of ESG and clearly the social aspect, the social impact aspect, and future generations are very focused on, do our leaders really authentically mean what it is that they say? And so, when you describe that very again candidly, as I said, start with you know, look, we know that we could do better when it comes to diversification, when it comes to ethnicity. However, we simply can't do everything all at the same time and it's completely fine to acknowledge that. Um, you know, I think the the challenging piece which we've seen with organizations before is where, you know, they say everything is fantastic and ultimately, we know that as humans, um, individually in businesses, all of us are fallible and so actually, um, you know, this is very much about understanding. Where are we at, to your point, looking at identification and intentionality around certain aspects that are going to help us really accelerate the change to start with, but also focus on the areas that are going to help us move more quickly as we go through the evolutionary journey.
Speaker 1Ie, you mentioned the park review and thank you for mentioning our dial global diversity review as well. Delighted that you have done that. But it's looking specifically like with our review and obviously with the Parker review, looking at ethnicity targets, our review looking at 10 facets of diversity. But it's looking at that leadership layer which, back in the world of recruitment and exec search, we would call that Marzipan layer and exec search we would call that marzipan layer. But the interesting piece about that is, and especially when we look at boards, which of course, are critical to success, but it is that CEO minus two and and and that really make a difference.
Speaker 1Why? Because, like yourself, they are visible. They're visible leaders when it comes to customers and other key stakeholders. But they're visible leaders when it comes to customers and other key stakeholders. But they're visible um and what um individuals within the business ultimately look up to to say, hey, you know, joanne's come from a background that you know was, you know, you can see she's been an upward journey of social mobility. You can see, you know clearly, um, you know she is a power woman who is striving to make change and she's worked in different sectors, started working when she was 18, didn't necessarily go to an Oxford or a Cambridge and I think all of that is super important because not only does it bring that realness to the people that are leaders within the business, but equally, and it says that success looks like a number of different things.
Speaker 1And you know I may have told you this story before, but I did go to university and I couldn't get a, not good enough. But actually you realize, as the world of work starts to move on, that actually the definition of success is changing because people like yourself are, you know, real models. I know there's a lot of talk about role models, but we often talk at Dial about real models because they are, you know, real people who are, like, genuinely champions and, you know, beacon carriers for wanting to do the right thing, even though actually it's never a linear path to get to perfection. When it comes to all of these things, it is, um, you know, as you've said, intentionality, looking at the why, diagnosing the why, but then also knowing that actually we're not going to get there overnight. You know, it does take tenacity and resilience and takes a a lot of nudging and storytelling um to be able to, to, to get there yeah, and I think organizations generally want to know that they're doing well everything.
Speaker 2So actually I think you know, um, it's it's, I think, a reflection of our culture that actually we organizationally are prepared to say we're not doing too well in this area and but actually what we're going to do is find out why. And once we find out why, we're going to put it right, because we see the absolute value in doing this. And you know, that's the type of organisation I want to work for and that's the type of organisation I've always relished working for, because nobody's perfect, no organisation's perfect. And equally, you can't stand still. If I think about the pbsa sector and how much it's changed over the years I've been working in it, um, you know it's, it's it's almost revolutionized um, in terms of the offering to its customers and how we find customers and how we define customers. And you know you've got things like different lengths of degrees now, both undergraduate and postgraduate. You know you've got people who have just different expectations about what their student accommodation means to them.
Speaker 2And at Empiric we very much try to provide a home from home.
Speaker 2So our, our model of deliveries are different to a lot of our competitors, so we will tend to have a much higher number of buildings but much smaller bed numbers, and we cluster them around a hub site so we can generate operational efficiency.
Speaker 2Part of the reason that we do that is because it really helps us engender that sense of community which, from any sort of element of diversity, is really really important, because what you don't want is somebody who's feeling socially isolated.
Speaker 2Um and and again, we sort of speak to our customers a lot, as you can imagine, and in our most recent survey, um, we ask a communication, a question around community and do you feel that we support a sense of community? And I think the last time our customers answered it they sort of said that maybe low 30s felt there was a really strong sense of community. Now, most recent survey was low 70s, so a huge jump. And I think people, if people feel they're part of a community, whether that community's where they live or at their university or with a group of friends, they're much more likely to be able to get support from that community and actually work with them, as opposed to being very isolated and probably finding themselves in quite a difficult situation. So yeah, that's something that we're really, really proud of. Um and uh, but you've got to change it. You know, what we did five years ago isn't going to work now or in five years time.
Speaker 1It's all about continually improving and challenging ourselves to do better what you're describing there really articulately is this sense of belonging, and that sense of belonging something that we feel as human beings.
Speaker 1You know, no matter um where we are, whether you know chief execs or COOs of FTSE organisations, we can all remember probably a time in our life where we've walked into an environment and felt a little prickle on our neck or on the backs of our arms because we've just not felt that we belong.
Speaker 1And you know, I think at times this sense of belonging is slightly underestimated because no one wants to stay in an environment that they don't feel that. And so when you talk about fostering this sense of community and you know having a real USP as well, um, with regards to um, you know competitors and such, because you want to really engender this sense of kind of community, it's great, it's really really great to hear, really really great to hear and specifically, not only is it great for, you know, social impact and something that, as you say, you know example of why and how diversity in this case is driving better commercial value and greater economic growth and opportunity. And you know it's frankly, you know it's really a, a no-brainer, and you know it pleases me no end seeing the organizations are building things like belonging, equity, inclusion, diversity, culture into their social strategies, and you know the fact that we we see this being more and more important as well to investors, frankly, as well yes, definitely.
Driving Diversity and Inclusion Forward
Speaker 2I mean, I had the opportunity on wednesday um of meeting a number of our investors um and a number of prospective investors um, and you're quite right, it was. It was really interesting the range of questions that they had um and the things that they were very interested in. You know, I think I probably went into that day thinking it would all be about numbers and metrics and of course that's hugely important, but actually, um, for a lot of them it was also about customers and people um, points of differentiation and you know. So take um, take a metric like a rebooker rate, so the whole sector will challenge themselves to get as many rebookers as possible and we will go live with rebookers in our booking cycle before we open up our rooms to to sort of they. You know, the general populace um, and at empiric, at empiric hello student we have a promise that we will always give them the best price possible. At that point, um and um, you know we consistently achieve about 50% of our eligible um rebookers rebook with us, and when I mean eligible, because we have some postgrads or year three students who wouldn't be eligible to rebook because they're not going to be a customer in the future. You know they're not going to be a student and that's a really strong metric. It's very strong in the whole sector.
Speaker 2But we were having a conversation last week as a, as an exco team, about, well, okay, but that's only 50 percent, what do we need to do to get the other 50%? And I suppose that. But you know, that's great that we're asking ourselves questions like that, because that's, you know, a lot. A lot of organizations would think that was a really strong performance and be very happy with it, and of course we are. But you know, we now want to go after the other 50% because, as you say, from a commercial perspective, if you think about the cost of acquisition of a new customer, to be able to retain that customer and ideally retain them for several years, um, you know, makes absolute commercial sense and, and I think you know, vindicates, um, our service proposition and our product proposition in terms of, you know, very discerning customers now who are making a decision to to live with us, which you know we're very delighted that they are doing.
Speaker 1I often think there'd be others that would disagree with me and you know I think both of us are on the same page here that diversity ought to be something that is discussed as commercial or a business strategy.
Speaker 1And I have to say I always get frustrated with these things or people that will say, well, it's, you know, it's kind of nice to have, but actually, you know, during times of crisis, you know, is it something that's a priority?
Speaker 1And then it makes me think well, you know, when you hear stories like this and when there are countless, countless stories where organizations retain best talent but there are huge pulls from the customer, and you know, these days, in the world of digitization and customer excellence and customer love is an absolute love is an absolute I mean, it's right at the top of ensuring sustainability always makes me, you know, kind of question mark why on earth?
Speaker 1I'm not saying that diversity oughtn't to, in some instances, be linked to charitable or, you know, for good initiatives, but I absolutely see that it is a commercial lever and driver of economic growth and prosperity and to that point, it absolutely needs to be discussed at the board level, which reminds me because you had said early on you work closely with your people officer and I wanted to call out the fact that I love that diversity and inclusion is within your remit but is working closely with the people function, because, like me, you'll you know, look at other company reviews and reports and things like this and you know it's often the case and it's not always wrong that diversity will report into HR or report into the people function, but increasingly we are seeing this be something that is linked to CEO and leadership activism and things like this, because it is a growth driver. It is not something that is a need to have. It is not something that is a need to have.
Speaker 2And so having it as something that now is cared about more and of of what we do definitely, I mean, you know, I'm a great believer from a sort of the people part of our business. Obviously there are HR and people policies that we need to have in place, but there are also overarching policies that can transform our organisation, that are owned in inverted commas by the people team but actually are the responsibility of the entire organisation, and diversity and inclusion is a great example of that. Wellbeing is another great example of that. Um, well-being is another great example of that that, yes, it might sort of start off life or be tacitly owned by a function, but actually it's everybody's responsibility to bring it to life and everybody can add to it and has a part to play in terms of developing it. So, um, you know, I think the people function in a business is very underrated function actually. Um, you know, because they've that, you know that they're a real function, that are focusing so inwardly but so outwardly at the same time, and to to wear both of those hats consistently, um is a real challenge but such a real opportunity.
Speaker 2Um, and certainly within our organization, you know, we have um sort of four key kpi areas as a business that we manage against, which are, you know, customer, commercial, esg and people um and our people um kIs are as important, if not more important, than the other KPIs.
Speaker 2You know, because you start with Duncan, our chief executive starts with a very clear premise that everything starts with people and if you have the right people and if you treat people properly, with respect, and if you reward people for a great contribution, then everything else will follow on. And I think you know Empiric is a great example of that, where you know we measure internal promotion, so we have a KPI around how many roles do we recruit internally. We measure employee engagement and we also measure employee retention. And when I first joined I saw the retention figure and I was like, oh right, is that the the attrition figure? And it was like, no, that's the retention figure. I was like wow, because we have an 85% retention figure in our business, 85%. And again, in a service industry or which essentially we are, you normally would find that completely the other way around, um, and that's incredible.
Speaker 1But of course you can't sit on your laurels because you need to keep, you know, investing in those people, developing people, allowing them to, you know, try new things, encouraging encouraging people to work across the organization as well, so people can work in our head offices, our hubs and empiric, but then can work out in our hello student properties as well, and you get that great diversification of skills, which is something that we really really encourage our people to do indeed, and when you talk about not resting on your laurels, I think that's a brilliant message for all to hear, because, looping all the way back to the beginning of our conversation, this is about an evolutionary journey and, given the world moving so fast, with five plus generations in the workplace, we must continue to strive forward and keep the momentum on, because that employee engagement and that retention equals fantastic productivity and innovation, I am sure, which leads me to ask another question, because I'm conscious that I could literally wax lyrical with you all day.
Speaker 1I haven't even got to the lightning round yet, so before I do, I'm going to ask one more question what does diversity and inclusion mean to you? So now, it means different things to different people.
Belief, Leadership, and Inspiration
Speaker 2I think to me it means taking the very best of any social group that exists out there, for the very best intentions. So, and the fact that actually, you know it, it shouldn't matter if you come from an ethnic minority, it shouldn't matter if you're disabled, shouldn't matter if you're older. As an example, I mean, that's a great one for us we've just extended our group life assurance policy to cover up to the age of 75, believe it or not, because we have three employees over the age of 70, um, and you know so that all of that is is almost I don't want to appear naive, but you know, I know it's not irrelevant, but it should be irrelevant because it's the person and the mindset and the knowledge and the skill and the ambition and the enthusiasm that's important. And so for me, if organizations and communities can develop policies where almost there's no need for us to talk about this anymore, that would be amazing. Now we're way off from that, way off from that.
Speaker 2Are valued by the contribution that they make, not where they'd be to school, or the colour of their skin or the way that they speak.
Speaker 2And you know there are lots of barriers to overcome, not only in business but in, you know every social aspect, but it would be nice to move towards that and I think organizations and groups that are saying this is important and developing strategies and approaches to highlight how important this is. So everybody feels that they have an equal voice and everybody feels that they can contribute and nobody feels that they have to apologize for who they are, which is ridiculous, that we're still in that situation. But you and I both know that we are in so many facets of life. You know that that's something that I, you know, I would really, really strive towards, and I unfortunately don't think we'll get there in my lifetime, but I'd like to think that we might make a huge, you know, a huge positive move, uh, towards that in my, in my children's lifetime, definitely and it's leaders like you, duncan and others, who will go that way to making the dent.
Speaker 1It is not always those biggest, boldest kind of things that we see. It's the inclusion nudges and it's the dents that get us along that route. Um, to your point in our lifetimes where we see it well, we know, just from a gender perspective, it's you know, 100 and goodness, what have you, and so 134 years, something like this for gender equality. You layer on all of the other elements of the onion and intersectionality and it starts to look really quite sparse. But the point is is making some strides and, like you say, looking at policies, having three people over the age of 70 is amazing. We've got to take the moments to celebrate and say isn't that fantastic?
Speaker 1We're looking now our business insurance policy, because we've got over 70s. We've got, you know, those that are staying in work longer. And you know, specifically I was reading about menopausal women as well and women over the age of 50 is a huge growing area of talent. If it means we need to have certain elements of flexibility to retain the talent that has all that knowledge, brilliant, let's go for it. So, lightning round, I'm going to give you 30 seconds to a minute to answer each of these questions hardest. First, what is your secret to success?
Speaker 2Well, as you may gather from my accent, I am a Yorkshire woman and us Yorkshire folk are well known for being absolutely tenacious and determined. So I think it's that, and also, you know, believing in myself when perhaps at in my career, others haven't necessarily believed in me as much as I believed in myself. So, yeah, that would be my secret for success.
Speaker 1Love it, love it. And a fellow Yorkshire woman here from North Yorkshire Self-belief, determination, resilience, amazing structure. Self-belief, determination, resilience, amazing um, you cannot go far wrong anyone who is listening to this with those traits. Um, and how about authentic leadership? What does that mean?
Speaker 2I think it. You know it's a number of the things we've talked about already. It's about being transparent, being clear, um, and also, you know, doing what you say you're going to do. It's very easy to stand and say you'll do all sorts of stuff and if you never do it, then they're just empty words and meaningless. So it is following through, even when that's difficult, because that's the point where you really make a big difference.
Speaker 1Spot on. And how about people who have inspired you the most throughout your career, or indeed your life? They don't need to be people from work.
Speaker 2Gosh. Well, my mum is a huge inspiration to me. You know I mentioned that my parents worked in the police force. My father was made disabled whilst were both in the police force. My father was, uh, made disabled whilst he was in the police force in the line of duty. So my mum brought up three children and looked after my dad and at times, worked four jobs to sort of keep ends keeping ends meet. And, uh, you know she has instilled some amazing values in me which you know I follow to this day. Um, I've had some fantastic mentors at work. I've been so lucky to work with some very inspirational people I've learned a huge amount from, and then I think, people like, um, kate Bush and Jo Malone, as two individuals who, women in men's worlds, who did things their own way and at times, perhaps, were criticised for doing that, but have both absolutely stood the test of time and been enormously successful in their own fields.
Speaker 1Incredible, none is the word. Incredible, mum is the word. I think lots of us can. Um, you know, really feel that? Um for sure, mums, there is literally no one like them. They're magic, they, they really are. They know more than you ever like a dream that they would know. Especially when you're growing up, you kind of think, oh, mum wouldn't know, but actually they're all seeing, all knowing, all hearing. Um, and finally, I wonder if you could go back in time, or it's the rocking chair test and you're looking back on life and things like this. Is there any advice that you would give to your younger self? Or it could be someone who's in a similar position than you were when you were young gosh, that's a great question.
Speaker 2Um, I could spend hours giving my younger self advice. Um, I think the key thing for me would be to focus on what's important, because you can get so het up about stuff that, in the whole scheme of things, is not that important or is only important for a very short period of time, that you use all of your emotional and physical energy on that and you miss out on the big opportunities. And I think I was lucky. I didn't miss out on the big opportunities, but I got myself completely exhausted along the way on various occasions. So it would be to just keep perspective, keep focus and listen to those around you, because you know that you get so much.
Speaker 2You're lucky enough to be surrounded by a great support network, whether it's friends, whether it's family, whether it's work colleagues. They have so much knowledge to give. And it's especially when you're young and you think you know it all. It's very easy to just think, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then actually, as you get older and a bit wiser, you think, oh, that's what they meant, and that's what they meant. So, yeah, it would be to talk less and listen more, I think.
Speaker 1Joanne, thank you so much. This has been literally the best conversation, especially for a friday and heading into the week you've been quite well on a friday, haven't you?
Speaker 1but, on a serious note, there have been so many learning points. Now I'm kind of now slightly anxious as to how on earth I will summarize all of these things. Um, but it is. It's genuinely. It's been so informative and I keep using this word candle that keeps coming to me, but I love your candle. Um definitely must be that, that Yorkshire thing. Going on, um, being to the point, um, and and saying what you think and what you mean.
Speaker 1But some of these kind of key learnings that I've picked out I'm sure others who have been listening in have learned a huge amount as well is making sure that we're intentional. So intentionality has been something that has really come across throughout this interview looking at the sum of all of our parts, knowing that intersectionality is key, but equally being realistic with what we can achieve. Looking at intentionality, looking at focus, knowing where we can achieve wins and great impact in order to then put our organisation or our person, for example, or our talent, in a place to grow and develop and learn for long-term success. I particularly liked the talk around diversity as a commercial lever for economic growth and prosperity and how this is seen within the context of your organisation, the fact that looking at customer love and success and making sure that we know our customers feel they can belong and how that also transcends into doing great, sustainable business as well. That is something that I think we're going to see more and more now, especially when it comes to ESG reporting and other legislation. But bringing together the hearts, the minds, the feelings which might have historically been seen as something that is fluffy, but actually that leads into engagement that I think you articulated particularly well. Also, we talked about the diversity of sector.
Speaker 1If you are a talent professional or a human resources professional, internally looking at your talent bench, consider people that come from different sectors. You can see from joanne's experience that the greatest and richest of learnings come from moving um across those different pieces and um, and I think, uh, there is an element of organizations and um and and a talent that wants to look at the same usual suspects that have been in various roles and so slightly thinking outside of the box I think is something which is key. And then, finally, the personal pieces that I think are applicable to anyone, whatever level, is knowing that there is self-belief and there is conviction, being attuned to the voices who are around you, like many of us, especially those who have made it up to senior positions. There are times where we, you know, do have a tendency to overwork ourselves or end up in a situation where we feel the burnout could be approaching. So listening to those around us will help us go the distance in the long term.
Speaker 1Um, we've probably all heard it before but, uh, putting your own oxygen mask on, uh, or putting your own life jacket on before, um that of others is absolutely key. Because if you have, um, you know the purpose-led um belief system, like, like you do, joanne, then um, you're, you're better here and with us, full of energy and doing great things, and you are, um, you know, being kind of burnt out and I think especially, um, you know where we are in the world of work, post-pandemic lots. There's a feeling, this burnout. So do listen to the pulse of people who are around you and that care, but then, equally, make sure that you do seek out help and mentors and real models. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1You've been listening to Joanne Pard, coo of Empiric Properties. Make sure you check them out and do tune in again. Make sure you listen, you subscribe. You can find us on apple podcast, spotify or any of your favorite podcast channels and you can visit us at wwwdarglobalorg forward slash podcast if you want to read the show script or have worried that you might have missed out some of those glimmers of learning that you can listen back to your heart's content. Joanne, thank you so much. Thank you. Great talk to you.