Inclusive Leaders & CEO Impact Podcast by DIAL Global
Bi-weekly podcast show featuring conversations with inspiring thought leaders of today, unearthing their unique stories of inclusion, belonging, equity, talent, culture and social impact.
Inclusive Leaders & CEO Impact Podcast by DIAL Global
Building Brand Purpose with Jess Weiner: The Link Between Social Impact and Economic Growth
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What if your brand could achieve both social impact and economic growth? Join us as we uncover the inspiring journey of Jess Weiner, a cultural expert and brand advisor who has taken the road less travelled to become a successful entrepreneur and CEO. With a rich academic background in theatre, women's studies, and classics, Jess's passion for storytelling and tackling social issues shines through. From founding a nonprofit theater company to giving advice to millions as a columnist for Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen, Jess shares how these diverse experiences paved the way for her influential work with major brands like Dove.
In this episode, we shed light on the crucial elements of "Building Long-Term Brand Purpose. Jess recounts her decades-long work across Dove's self-esteem initiatives and the proven impact of their research-driven approach. Learn from real examples such as Dove's multi-generational Campaign for Real Beauty and Mattel's body-positive transformation of Barbie. Jess emphasises the indispensable role of consistency, transparency, and long-term commitment in driving systemic change, and how internal leadership can make or break these efforts.
We also tackle "The Future of Inclusion and Diversity," spotlighting the measurable benefits DE&I initiatives bring to businesses, from improved recruitment to better retention. Jess discusses the shifting trust from governmental institutions to brands among younger generations and the importance of brands maintaining courage and consistency. Finally, in "The Human Connection Game," we explore the evolving work culture post-Covid-19, emphasising the significance of collaboration, flexibility, and human connection. Jess shares her personal insights on redefining success, balancing professional ambitions with self-care, and why having a North Star is more vital than ever. This episode is a must-listen for leaders aiming to create meaningful, lasting change both within their organisations and in society at large.
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Hello and welcome to Diverse and Inclusive Leaders. This is the show where I speak with the most inspirational and thought-provoking leaders of today and unearth their unique stories of diversity and inclusion to help inspire, educate and motivate others to make the world a better place. Today, I am ridiculously excited yes, you did hear me say ridiculously excited to be joined by Jess Wiener. Jess is a cultural expert, a brand advisor extraordinaire. She spent literally decades educating, advising, speaking on everything from cultural trends through to global brand activation and recognition, working with organizations like Unilever, Mattel, Warner Brothers, to name just a few. She was named as one of the top 250 female founders by Inc Magazine one of the most creative people in business, by diversity and education, an area within Fast Company. So I'm going to pause there and introduce Jess, because I want to be able to do you full justice.
Speaker 2You're so kind. I'm so happy to be here with you and you know, as a speaker and it's always so weird when you hear people read your bios, because all of those things are incredible and I'm really proud of it. But I really love meeting folks like you and finding other kind of like-minded people in the world and continuing these conversations, so I'm really happy to be with you today.
Speaker 1Oh, bless you, Jess. Thank you so much. And literally right back at you For those who are listening in. I had this wonderful opportunity to meet with Jess in London at the Makers event and I saw your dress in speaker presenter interview mode and I thought, oh my goodness, literally the way that you articulated, put yourself across, understood the needs of the guests and everything that you do, and I thought that is just incredible. It is an art, it is an absolute art as well as it is a science. And you know, I thought to myself at the time I would love to have you on the podcast and role reversal, understand where you have come from. As you speak. On many stages you work with global brands, like we do. How did you come to be where you are today?
Speaker 2I love talking about my origin story because I hope it inspires somebody to know that there's no one direct path to being a CEO or being a business leader, because I went to university for three things that absolutely guaranteed me to make no money in life. So I studied theater, which I love. So I'm a storyteller, a playwright, a producer, a director that's my origin. I'm a storyteller, a playwright, a producer, a director that's my origin. I'm a performer by training, and so I think some of what you might have noticed in those spaces is a long history of studying the performing arts. I also majored in women's studies, which was an incredible, eye-opening experience for me as a young woman to recognize where there is obviously there are so many important issues that we still need to address around women and gender equity. And then I studied classics, which not a lot of people know about, but I lived in Greece for a year and I studied classics, which, for me, this intersection of like art and women's issues and classics was really about. How do cultures shift and change, how do conversations matriculate through communities, and so I didn't know it then, but everything I studied was like prime fodder for what I ended up becoming, which was an entrepreneur, which I also didn't have a name for. I was highly educated and I loved all these things. And then I'm like, okay, how do I make money at that? And so, to be very honest, I have developed an accidental business over 30 years and I mean that in. You know, I have always followed having difficult and important conversations. That's just been like something that lights me up. I think there's so much breakthrough when we have a little breakdown. I think you know, obviously you know, as a leader in this space, these are complex and nuanced conversations when we talk about inclusion and belonging and diversity and, most importantly, why we are not equitable in spaces. So all of this is to say I took this beautiful liberal arts education and ended up creating a career for myself in media and marketing and advertising where I was able to pull some of the threads together around important cultural topics and then bring them to brands in a way that they could understand how to activate against.
Speaker 2And I think my superpower there was because I didn't grow up in a marketing or advertising industry. I grew up in that storytelling community. You know grassroots space. So I was coming in and talking like a consumer, not a brand marketer, and I was coming in with the voice of the consumer, because what I did after college is I started my own business at 20 years old I was almost 21 years old and I started a nonprofit theater company and I focused on social issues that affected kids and I did national tours in the United States around issues like school violence and homophobia and hate crimes and body image back in the 90s. So you know, I've been doing this work, as you mentioned, for many, many decades and what I think I've learned the most from sitting in boardrooms and classrooms and dorm rooms and dining rooms is that these conversations are really important to have and I was looking for a community and a platform in which to educate and inspire.
Speaker 2And I really accidentally fell into working with brands because I was on the road talking to young people and I became an advice columnist for two actors that probably people may know I don't know what you know Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen. I don't know if anybody remembers the Olsen twins, but I was a global, you know advice columnist for them and that's actually what led me to work with Dove. You know there was an incredible champion that I had at Edelman. Her name is Jackie Cooper and she really kind of brought me into this work, looking for an expert in this space, right at the beginning of when Dove was thinking about launching the campaign for real beauty in 2002.
Speaker 2We launched in 2004, but a couple of years prior to that and I had no idea about working with brands at that time. I had been on the road with kids, I had been producing these amazing conversations and plays. I then started to write for these two Hollywood superstars and, like, help their community make sense of things. And then boom, I got introduced into the brand world and helped to launch the campaign for real beauty in 2004.
Speaker 1And, quite honestly, like my entire career trajectory changed with that moment, yes, that is such a phenomenal story and you know what I love when I heard you speak and again I reflect on it now as I hear your story is this modesty and willingness to step into the accidental moments that have shaped the career was nodding profusely.
Speaker 1If you saw there about, um, mary-kate and Ashley, because I of course remember them, I know, and being in the UK, you know you remember kind of Disney Channel and things like this and like, oh yeah, these shiny American stuff over the pond, how exciting, um, so what a what a moment.
Speaker 1But you can kind of see how all of these unique experiences have then given you the capability and the gravitas to be working with global brands like Dove and, you know, working with campaigns which, frankly, are pretty nuanced, and they are, you know, they are pretty unique and into themselves, because this last decade, last couple of decades, has seen a huge shift in the cultural zeitgeist and I would love for you to talk to us a little bit about that, because obviously you know, right now there is a lot happening with the world, with the brands, with the emphasis placed on brands that care and matter, and you talk a lot about the North Star, and so I wonder how, with the successes you've had from Doves, real Beauty, mattel, et cetera, how you've managed to guide and lead them through that transformation and change.
Building Long-Term Brand Purpose
Speaker 2It's such a good question because I would say that you know, if I'm being honest, which I always am, so this is who I am I was skeptical about working with brands as an issues expert in these spaces 20 plus years ago. We weren't, as you just mentioned, at the advanced stage of brand communications with consumers now around topics you know, including representation. Back then I was skeptical. What does a soap company want to do with self-esteem? How is this going to work? You know and I think to your, to speaking, to your work, maybe combining the two of ours, you know, understanding who your internal leadership is and what they're trying to do. That's what really unlocked for me at Dove.
Speaker 2I met with the team at Dove. I understood the conversation they were trying to create. I understood that they hadn't historically spoken to girls at that time in a direct manner, because there wasn't product for girls at that time. But they had a social issue around 2% of women not believing that they were beautiful, or 2% of women right that that would not. You know, sorry, let me back that up. The stat that launched our campaign was that worldwide, only 2% of women would consider themselves beautiful and that left 98% to be convinced. And that journey that we went on which was like what can we do to help you feel better about yourselves? And a lot of adult women said, look, I already feel the way I feel. I've been, you know, kind of customized to feel this way work on my child, work on my daughter, help the next generation. And that was the unlock for us with Dove around the campaign for real beauty. It was creating a multi-generational conversation around beauty stereotypes and beauty norms at the time and I think you know I've grown up with that brand, so I've been with them for 20 years. They've been one of my key client partners in all of the work that I do and so I've watched over two decades the conversation around beauty change and the role for brands in that conversation change because Dove had to earn a lot of credibility at that time to have such a personal and intimate conversation.
Speaker 2And what I think they did really well is they've always grounded it in research. That's a key component to the work that we do, so it is not sort of just one focus group based. It's really beautiful social science and research put into action. But obviously anybody who's ever witnessed a Dove creative film whether it's real beauty, you know, sketches or evolution or our latest on on AI. What you realize is that to weave together the insights, to tell the story is one thing, but to create communities, to have conversations is another. So I'm really proud to say I helped to kind of architect and kick off the curriculum that Dove uses in hundreds of countries around the world. We've reached almost 200 million girls with self-esteem programming in the last 20 years, and I mean really reach them, like have in-person workshops with girls and young women around the world. And so I think there's a couple of things I would take away from this, like listening, if somebody is like also working in a brand space.
Speaker 2Consistency was key. This was clearly not an issue that was going to be a one and done right. You weren't going to have one conversation or one campaign and then fix the women's relationship to beauty. There's a lot of systemic barriers there. So consistency was important. Transparency was important, right.
Speaker 2Like any big brand, there've been missteps, there've been moments of learning and unlearning that needed to happen, and I've never worked with a brand partner that's been so willing to stay in the work. You know, maybe the other partner that I have that I feel really blessed to have cultivated is Mattel. Mattel has the same kind of rigor and consistency and commitment to this work and that relationship for me happened in about 2010. I started working with Mattel so they've been a partner of mine now for about 14 years and one of the you know major projects, obviously, that I'm most proud of is going inside and helping to advise and inspire and inform the team about changing Barbie's body. So you know these change-making moments, whether it's launching the campaign for real beauty, changing Barbie's body into this. Now you know you saw this beautiful film last year that we got to see all of the fruits of those labors. But none of that happens without internal workforce and C-suite executives and an entire team of people believing in the vision and staying with it even when there's headwinds and backlash.
Speaker 1I love how you have articulated the, the consistency piece.
Speaker 1It is, like you say, it is never one and done.
Speaker 1And the very best brands yes, okay, they care about these moments that matter, because those are the moments that we remember, we, we feel a certain way, we take something with us home to our families and we repeat that moment time and time again.
Speaker 1Yet, ultimately, it is the consistency and the rigor, like you say, that keeps the momentum and the foot on the gas, and that is diversity, inclusion, belonging, equity culture that you are such an expert in. It is brands that are willing not just to invest equity culture that you are such an expert in. It is brands that are willing not just to invest in the moments that matter but to invest for the long term, knowing that, despite world events or headwinds or geopolitical craziness, that we have experienced 70 elections around the globe a little less now because we have a new prime minister but ultimately, all of these things have huge changes and often polarizing views, and I think you know this is you know what I admire a lot about the brands that you mentioned, but the work that you do, because that takes staying power and you can see very quickly those that don't truly believe in the longevity of purpose and that purpose long-term. It also sells as a commercial lever for economic growth and prosperity.
The Future of Inclusion and Diversity
Speaker 2I know you and I know that, and that is a message that I want more and more people to understand is that inclusion equals income. And now, you know, when I started in this work 20 years ago, that was the big question. Well, this work sounds great, but is it actually going to move our bottom line? Is there ROI on this work? And I think now it's indisputable. We have tons of different studies, tons of different use case studies that show us that of course this works. And not only does it work and shift the lever, you know, in culture, it shifts the lever inside your business. It shifts the way that you can recruit and retain amazing talent.
Speaker 2And I'll say something interesting. You know, for those listening, you know my role in these programs is really unique because I am a third party issues expert that these brands invite in. And then we develop a relationship. For, you know, in Dove's case, decades and Barbie's case, you know we're heading into our second decade and I think the reason why we've stayed in that conversation together is because I can understand and help them to understand where this movement around equity and representation does yield business results, but also is the right thing to do. You know there's wonderful research out.
Speaker 2Going back to Edelman, speaking of Edelman, trust research talks a lot about the decline of trust from especially Gen Z and millennial audiences in governmental institutions and more trust being delivered to brands.
Speaker 2Well, you know, of course, because we are in such a consumer culture and our capitalistic world, brands have larger than life identities for us, and what I would say you know in this conversation is that the future of this work will continue to require the rigor and the consistency, but also, now, the courage you just mentioned. You know the geopolitical landscape. I think we are seeing legislation, especially in the US, roll back DE&I programs, removing titles, removing departments in some capacities, so this is a really key moment. This is why I wanted to have this conversation with you in particular and your listeners, because this is a really key moment for people who work in this field to stay focused and stay committed and continue to do the work and not get swayed by the fear and it's natural to do so but to not to get swayed by the fear that is out in culture right now around this work.
Speaker 1I want to reach into the screen and hug you, because that is exactly what is needed. And you're absolutely right. There is, there is a fear, and look, you know. On the one hand, I feel who are we to judge when I hear that there are those who might be in certain title roles who are having death threats. That is how bad it can be in certain situations because the world is polarised, read headlines and we haven't had the chance or the opportunity, even a privilege at times, to look into what the data, the facts, the figures say. Then, of course, we want to, you know, believe what we see immediately ahead of us. But, like you say, you know the power that brands have, the power of you know the data is really where we need to find our solace. But, equally, who are we to judge if people leave specific roles? Because it is a role that is shrouded with the need to be super tenacious and keep your head above the parapet. It is up to us and it is up to the brands to be able to support the longevity of this. But because it's a business imperative, you know you talk about the ROI, you know I've been talking a lot with clients and brands about the impact of inaction.
Speaker 1What is the impact of inaction when it comes to looking at the various layers and the generational layers that exist Because they are ferocious with their beliefs on the brands that they back. And you know this barbie example that you give and I watched with my husband, who was closer to the tv screen than I was, because he was loving it so much is. You know, it is so relatable. You know the people that are watching this and seeing this. It is such an obvious that consumer money is going into diversity. It's not even a questionable thing, but when you see headlines it does. You know it can cause fear.
Speaker 2It can cause fear.
Speaker 2And I think you know what I often do, because you know, as I look at the work that lies ahead for me and my clients, especially heading into 2025, this is the way I tend to boil it down for them. I talk about, like, look, let's put it to the human level, we are human beings with a limited life expectancy, right, we do not get out of this world alive. So what is the impact you want to make while you're here and what will you learn from that impact? Because what I want leaders to understand as well is that when we do this work, we heal ourselves, we heal parts of ourselves, we unlearn our own behaviors and our own belief systems, and this goes for everybody, from C-suite on down. We're all human beings, titles aside, like, if you get the chance to work for, or make or create a wonderful brand that has resonance with an audience, I believe in this new generation of business, it's incumbent upon you to represent as much of your audience as humanly possible. So what does it take to do that? It takes challenging you know, ingrained biases and some unlearnings, as I keep mentioning, which really requires grace and space and compassion for that unlearning. Right. We all have come to this work, I think, to heal parts of our own experience right.
Speaker 2I started a theater company around social issues because I was a young girl struggling with body image that grew up to be a young adult who had eating disorders and wanted to talk about the incredible pressures that women face, unrealistic pressures to conform to a certain ideal form of beauty. So, of course, I've come to this work around inclusion and representation, healing the part of me that didn't feel represented and seen. And then, through this work, I learned so much about other lived experiences that I don't have and ways to unlock opportunities. Because what I do know to be true is that when you see yourself represented in this work, when little girls and little boys and little kids who play with Barbie now see themselves, their parents, their aunties, their cousins, you know the people in their world represented in the toys that they hold and they play with. They play out different stories and they feel entitled and have an opportunity to do so. They feel themselves in that play. That, to me, is way bigger than bottom line. That is like changing someone's potential life trajectory because they were able to see a character on a giant film screen that looked just like them and it just reminds them that they, you know, have the ability to dream bigger in the ways that they want to dream.
Speaker 2So I say all of this because I think sometimes we get up in the weeds and around DE&I and everybody's got feelings around the words, but I go into the meaning. What are we fighting for? We are fighting for dignity, we're fighting for respect, we're fighting for opportunity for people to feel safe and welcomed and that, will you know, bring us to feeling in community, as you know, that we belong and that place in space. You know, my friend, brene Brown says we're hardwired for belonging and I believe that to be true. And I believe that to be true not just for consumers, but for all of my client partners, who are human beings doing great work. They need to be reminded that this is also part of their personal journey too.
Speaker 1I'd love to unpick this piece that you said around, forget about the words and think about the meaning, because I'm hearing a lot of oh, but it's a d word, you know. I'm like, okay, seriously, you get about this. Let's look at to your point, not only the legacy that you want to leave, because we're here for a finite moment. It's arrogant to think that we are going to have further impact on anything else other than the timeline within our life and the systems that we may be able to influence, to put in place, to drive better change for future generations of leaders. But equally, 2025 is a huge watershed moment for everything from the eu due diligence directive, corporate due diligence directive, rather, must get that right. I know it's dd and makes me think of a huge brass eyes. Actually, um, it's like.
Speaker 1Also, we know there are things like the wealth economy framework, which looks at other aspects of wealth. I ie, when we think about wealth, we think about the fiscal pounds or the dollars which are there in our pocket. But actually, what is wealth? It is a lot of the intangibles that may historically have been harder to measure, but you mentioning a lot of these eyeballs, these stats, the barbie movie, for one, the consumers that are engaged. You know, I'd love to ask your take actually on some of advertising and sales data etc around the world, because all of these things you compile in that amasses for a picture that says whether we call it diversity or you know, see headlines about culture wars. This is coming yeah.
Speaker 2It's already here.
Speaker 2Anyway exactly, exactly. I'm not trying to denigrate at all a you know, historical business function that has been created around DE&I. I think it's important, by the way, to have practitioners and experts help guide businesses, both internally and externally, to keep this top of mind. And why is that? It's because our leadership ranks and our internal employee ranks are still not equitable, so we're still not fully represented inside those rooms. So you need somebody to be able to bring in a point of view that may not be sitting at the table right now, or to be reminding a large force of individuals working together that you know, if they don't have this lived experience, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Have internal roles in that way. But the reason why I say let's get off of the words is because I think the words have become weaponized and a talking point right now for opponents who want to make it mean what it doesn't so to me. That's why I say let's focus on the meaning. I mean you can rebrand DE&I all you want.
Speaker 2The ultimate goal of this right is equitable representation, parity in pay, dignity and respect in the workforce and out in the world. How we want to get there will be unique and different to different businesses and different industries. Right, there's different considerations in each, but I think we swirl too much in the label and not in the journey of the work and what the outcome intends. And, as you've mentioned and I've mentioned multiple times there are financial outcomes. But you talk to a person whose life has been changed because they had a leader who looked like them or somebody who championed them to get more equitable pay in their workforce, and it's not just that they feel good, it's that they are able to live a better life, they're able to accomplish other things for their family and the world, and that should be the humanity that we are focused on.
The Human Connection Game
Speaker 2I think we've become too individualistic and, instead of thinking about kind of a community focus and impact, it's a very much of a me me, me moment. What does this mean to me? And I just want us to get off the talking points chain around this piece and remember like this is hard work. It's often why a lot of people don't want to do it, because it challenges you, especially if you've been in a privileged class or a position of power. But this is not a net sum game. You and I know this. This is not a net sum game. There's enough for everybody to go around and there is an opportunity to do better work when we do it together and I think you know to me, that's what I remind my client partners about, and those are the people I choose to work with, who are willing and open to open their minds and to remember that this is the long game, this is the marathon, not the sprint.
Speaker 1The net sum game. That is such a subject and into itself, and definitely the American version. I again feel like I'm looking in a far better mirror than my own hearing and seeing you speak about this, because it fuels my cup. I know that everyone who is listening is feeling like this is why this is the reminder. It is a complex subject. It has got many layers of the onion, but let's actually not overcomplicate. This is whatever you want to call it. It's like a sweetie or, you know, candy, as you'd say over in the States is. Whatever the wrapper, look at what's inside. Look at what's inside and look at what it's going to do. You know to you the food that you eat.
Speaker 2You know it's and the thoughts that you think and the cultures that you create. One of the things that I do inside businesses, outside of working on social impact campaigns, like you've seen with Dove and you've seen with Barbie, is we do work on like kind of a culture conversation inside around like our desired state of being. You know work is changing. The way we work is changing. Covid helped usher in some specific changes, but I think the way we've been looking at work has been changing for some time, and I think, for businesses who are grappling with, like, what role do I take in this and what stand do I take? You know, you know I've talked about this having that North star, the piece that you're building for To me. What I want to say, though, like having that North Star, the piece that you're building for To me.
Speaker 2What I want to say, though, about that is a North Star for me and my clients.
Speaker 2I tell them think about it as a guidepost, not a goalpost, because I think sometimes we get so married to this like wonderful mission statement you've come up with in a brand meeting, right, and then you know you have to pressure test it to be like does this help me make decisions along the way.
Speaker 2Are these guideposts for me? Because sometimes and we know this in hard social issue work, the goalposts move, sometimes those sustainability goals change, sometimes those metrics shift, and so it can't be so binary, because what you're talking about is a combination of business and behavioral change, human behavioral change, and I think they play into each other. You need a North Star to get started and then you need to develop the rigor and discipline to know that you're going to be fluid and flexible and pivoting, because people are not binary individuals. They're complex, multidimensional, intersectional folks, and so I feel like for me that's what I want to say to folks listening, who want, who are interested in this work or doing this work, or feeling burnt out by this work is that again, this is the long game and this is more of a human connection game than it even is. You know a series of talking points we want to put out in the world game than than it even is uh, you know a series of talking points we want to put out in the world.
Speaker 1Yeah, I'm trying to find something that I don't agree with you on. I don't want it to look like, oh, I'm just agreeing with everything is really hard, by the way, because I've been nodding profusely here, thinking how can I disagree with something? But this is honestly for those who are listening is this is far beyond the moments that matter. This is exactly as you've articulated so perfectly. This is a human connection. This is the legacy. This is what we are able to leave. Business and behavioral change you know the two go hand in hand, but you've got to be able to invest in that. You know why would we treat diversity culture in any other way than something which is a strategic business imperative? Which leads on to the lightning round questions I'm going to ask you. The hardest question first actually is, with all of your successes, like, what does success now mean to you?
Speaker 2I've redefined success over and over in the course of my life. I will say that for a long time I was very outwardly focused, and I think many young, hungry folks are right. We're looking for the next accolade, the next accomplishment, the next goal to tick off the box, and so I think for me, success often lived outside of myself. If I'm being very honest, I think success now, as I've hit my fifth decade on this earth, is both a combination of internal success. I think the greatest job actually that we have is the business of being ourselves. I think that is what I continue to remind myself. My greatest job is to learn about who I am and then to bring what I can to the world, to be of service. That's my North Star, those are my guideposts.
Speaker 2So for me, success has changed dramatically. I've had financial success. I have, you know, other kinds of external successes, but the success I am most proud of is how much I have grown, especially over the last decade. I've had a butt kick in decade prior to this, in all the great and terrible ways, honestly, but I've come out to the other side of it, which I think you do if you get the pleasure and privilege of aging, which is with wisdom and foresight. Now to know that I have to be whole within to be able to give back to the world. I cannot burn the candle at both ends. It is not noble to be so connected to hustle culture that you forget who you are. So for me, success is also a moving target and also something that I get to and choose to redefine at various stages of my life.
Speaker 1I have no words. What an incredible answer and what a great reminder as well, because we've got to get off the treadmill, like that is. There's so many sound bites that you've searched throughout this podcast. Like you've got to be whole within yourself to be able to give back to the world, and isn't it so? Those two things they feel like they rub and they butt heads quite a lot, but actually that is what I believe so many people need to hear, including myself. How about the biggest heroes or sheroes that you have come across? I know you've mentioned some brilliant individuals, but who's really impacted you the most throughout your life?
Speaker 2I think the people who've impacted me the most have been people in audiences that I've spoken at events or I've had a pleasure of talking to somebody after a moment, because I never take for granted, as a public speaker and communicator that I have like an hour or 45 minutes to deliver a message and make an impact, and sometimes it lands and sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 2It certainly won't do it for everybody, but the people that have impacted me are so many probably more than I could name on your show of just of individuals who've chosen to take the time to come and listen, take the time to come up and potentially argue with me or challenge or provide thanks or cry or have a moment of aha that they've shared with me. And those experiences shaped me because they remind me of our humanity and connection, they teach me and they also connect me in a way where I don't have to know all the answers. We're getting to figure this out together. So I would say many, many, many interactions with audience members have become my biggest kind of hero model, because I think anybody who's willing to look within and do some uncomfortable digging and examining that's always just a really great reminder of how we're more connected than we think.
Speaker 1And finally, if you could go back in time I'm sure you've been asked this before but you know often called the rocking chair test, whatever we want to call it. But if you can go back in time and speak to the super young Jess who is considering what's next in the world, of all that kind of stuff going on, what would you say to the young Jess or someone who's in a similar situation right now?
Speaker 2I think about you got me teary-eyed because I think about young Jess all the time. I still do this work for her. I still do this work with her. I will say, you know, she's in me, she's in everybody. We all have our little ones inside of ourselves and you know, they hold the hurt and they hold the hope.
Speaker 2And I would say to myself, as little Jess, maybe two big things I would say oh, my gosh girl, wait until you see the life you get to live Like. You're going to make up a career, you're going to be part of amazing culture, changing moments. You're going to meet incredible people that, uh, will lift you up and support you. And you're going to find the love of your life Maybe not when you think you're going to. That's my other message.
Speaker 2I found the love of my life when I was 40 and my little girl, me, was totally fascinated about who she was going to marry.
Speaker 2So I would tell her don't worry, it works out in the end.
Speaker 2And then the other thing I would tell her is, god, if I could go back and actually do a behavioral change with her, it would have been, and maybe a little bit of reparenting.
Speaker 2If I'm being honest, I would have, as you know and this was a skill that my mom didn't have, but this was something I now cultivate for myself is I would have had her look a little bit more inward than outward about what matters to her and how she defines like we just talked about success or beauty, or kindness, or. I think we need to teach our kids too, and especially in this digital age, to not be so focused on what lies behind that fourth wall, on social media or what other people are doing, but to really live a life you love and to create and design a life you love, and I think little Jess was very focused on I have to look and be a certain way in order to be loved. And I would go back and I would tell her oh honey, you are already so worthy of love, you don't have to do another thing, you are already so worthy of love.
Speaker 1You don't have to do another thing. You're making me tear up.
Speaker 2Me too, I know.
Speaker 1And now I need to try and summarize.
Speaker 2Good luck Thank you luck.
Speaker 1Thank you, it has been a phenomenal, as expected. But equally, we sometimes go into conversations and connections where we don't know what the output might be. But just, you have not disappointed not that I ever thought that you would. Your, your insight, your expertise, your humility which I think is something that people need to remember more and more these days, is the humility, the capability to be humble you okay to say that we are wrong, but to the mirror up and to be honest with ourselves.
Speaker 1There's so many things that have really resonated with me and I know that they will resonate with many. Specifically, living a life you love, which that is the headline, right, but actually unpick that and really listen to it, as I have had the fortunate opportunity to listen and share with you throughout this podcast, because I have learned such a lot is taking that real look inward, knowing that beauty, success, the things that our hearts desire, or we think they may desire, are closer to home than we actually believe. I also love the talk that we had around forgetting these words and thinking about the meaning. I mean it is all absolutely like a golden thread throughout this joyful conversation. But as businesses, as brands that have this incredible capability to impact literally millions and billions, we have got to take responsibility for that. And so companies that are lucky enough to work with you, jess, who are lucky enough to go on that journey to really understand, to find out what their brand's North Star is, are lucky to go on that, because it is something that we don't all have the opportunity to do, and certainly not within the fragility of our lifespan, and so how can we utilize all of these? You know many, many moments that matter, not only to drive better business for all.
Speaker 1I loved what you said about inclusion. Equals income is super powerful and something that we need to remember when we get worried about the complexity of the stuff that we are seeing. But equally, this you know finding joy and finding. You know yourself in these matters of of crazy geopolitical stuff and you, you know changing times in the world is. You know, many skeptics out there, but actually only one of you and only one journey that you can go on. But that's really just a snippet of what I learned. I hope I did you the service of at least summarizing just part of what you have shared today.
Speaker 2Yeah, it was really wonderful to be in conversation with you, thank you.
Speaker 1Jess, thank you. My name is Leila McKenzie-Dulles. I'm the founder and CEO of Dial Global. You have been listening to the fabulous Jess Wiener. We'll put all of her handles so you can follow. You can share for anyone that would like to re-listen to this podcast, but make sure, if there are any issues that you've been affected by throughout anything that we have discussed today, that you reach out. Do not be a stranger. That is what is most important, but we'll put all the links, the show notes, in there you can download. Please do leave as a review. We always appreciate those. You can find us on Apple Spotify, your favourite podcast app, or directly at wwwdarglobalorg. Forward slash podcast and we'll look forward to seeing you again very soon.