Empowering Women Through Storytelling and Surfing

https://www.drstephaniehan.com/
https://bit.ly/m/laniloves

Summary

In this engaging conversation, Lani Park and Dr. Stephanie Han discuss the challenges and triumphs of writing, particularly in the context of divorce and personal growth. Dr. Han shares her journey as a writer, her experiences with surfing, and the importance of storytelling for women navigating difficult life transitions. Lani Park and Stephanie Han explore the themes of storytelling, empowerment, and the journey of women writers. They discuss the importance of sharing personal narratives, especially in the context of divorce, and how these stories can empower others. The conversation also touches on aging gracefully and finding joy in movement. Stephanie shares her insights on writing, legacy, and the importance of seizing the narrative as women.

Keywords

divorce, writing, empowerment, women, storytelling, memoir, surfing, personal growth, identity, childhood, memoir, storytelling, women empowerment, aging, joy, writing advice, legacy, personal fulfillment, societal pressures, imagination

Takeaways

• Dr. Stephanie Han is an accomplished author and educator.
• Surfing became a metaphor for overcoming personal challenges.
• Writing about divorce can be a therapeutic process.
• Women often face societal pressures when discussing divorce.
• Empowering women through storytelling is crucial for healing.
• Sharing personal stories can change the narrative around divorce.
• Empowering women through storytelling is crucial.
• Aging brings wisdom and a sense of freedom.
• Women writers inspire each other through shared experiences.
• Seeking mentorship is important for growth.
• Financial stability is a practical concern for writers.
• Personal fulfillment includes pursuing passions like surfing.
• Women must seize their narratives to reclaim their voices.

Titles

• Navigating Life's Waves: A Conversation with Dr.

Big Island Bees


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Transcript

Steph (03:58)
Okay, yay, we're on. my God, I have to clean up my background.

Lani Park (04:05)
Okay. it's good to see you, unnie.

Thanks for coming. my god. Okay, I'll put it at the angle. Okay. It's not as messy. I'm wearing my Korean scarf. that's beautiful. I love that. It's like, my gosh, look, there's a little Korean man on it.

Steph (04:11)
my God. Okay, I'll put it at the angle.

so it's not as messy.

I'm wearing my Korean scarf.

That's like

Lani Park (04:33)
where'd you get that? I love it. My auntie made it for me. She made it? you have a great auntie too. Is it your kunimo or your wesumo? Just the way. that's beautiful that she She's my kunimo. I have a great kunimo too. I'm glad we both have wonderful kunimos. So thank you so much for joining today. I really appreciate you.

Steph (04:36)
My auntie made it for me.

She passed away.

Shoozai kuniwa.

Okay.

Can

you hear me? Because I'm echoing.

Lani Park (05:01)
Can you hear me? I can hear you. I'm echoing.

Oh, are you? Let me see. I don't hear an echo on my end from you. Do you hear? Is it loud? When I speak, like, first of all, you're super quiet. Oh, I am? But when I speak, I hear an echo after every time I talk. Oh. Hold on for second. There's echo cancellation. Echo.

Steph (05:11)
Okay, when I speak, like first of all, you're super quiet. But when I speak, I hear an echo after every time I talk. Hold on for a second. There's echo cancellation. Echo.

Make sure anyone who isn't wearing headphones has echo cancellation on.

Lani Park (05:31)
Make sure anyone who isn't wearing a headphones has echo cancellation

on.

Steph (05:44)
Let's see, noise cancellation. How's this?

Lani Park (05:45)
Echo. Let's see. cancellation. How's

this? Yeah, I don't hear it either way, but do you hear it? I hear the echo. Hold on for a second. Okay.

Steph (05:51)
I hear the echo, hold on for a second.

Hello, hello.

Lani Park (06:05)
Hello,

hello. Hello. Okay, hello, hello. Hello.

Steph (06:09)
Okay, hello, hello.

I'm hearing the echo.

Lani Park (06:15)
I'm hearing the

echo of myself and so I'm wondering if it's gonna come up.

Steph (06:17)
of myself and so I'm wondering if it's gonna come out.

Hold on.

Lani Park (06:25)
Hold on.

Steph (06:35)
Okay, it says it can't be changed while recording the echo cancellation. is there a way I can sign off and sign back on?

Lani Park (06:36)
Okay, it says it can't be changed while recording the echo cancellation. is there a way I can sign off and sign

back off? Yeah, do you want to try that? I'll be here. I'll wait for you. try it. Okay, I'm going to sign.

Steph (06:49)
Yeah, let's try it. Okay, I'm going to sign.

off. I'm just gonna

Lani Park (06:56)
off. I'm just

gonna delete it off here. Leave site.

Aloha and welcome to another episode of Honey Tea and Talk Story with Lani. I'm grateful to be here today with you and today I have a very special guest. I really look up to this lady, she's wonderful. Her name is Dr. Stephanie Han and she's an award-winning author of Swimming in Hong Kong, founder of StephanieHan.com, an online platform for women's writings workshops.

for Women's Writing Workshops, editor of Woman Warrior Writer Newsletter, and creator of The Divorce Story Structure, a powerful tool to help women write their divorce stories for their legal and personal files. She is a contributing editor to the Hawaii Review of Books. Her short story is The Swimmers, opens the Honolulu Noir Anthology, and was called a standout by Publishers Weekly.

She is completing her memoir, Break, a divorce story and lives in Oahu, home of her family since 1904. Let's welcome Stephanie Ha.

she's here. Okay. Aloha, Lani. Aloha. How's that going? It's echoing a bit. It's echoing a bit? okay. Is it like annoying, like to the point where it would interfere with the interview? I think it's okay. I'm going to try to move apart because it is echoing everything. really?

Drstephaniehan (09:25)
Aloha, Lani.

It's echoing a bit.

I think it's okay. I'm going to try to move apart because it is echoing everything.

Lani Park (09:50)
Hmm, but you would have to sign off and Then the setting has to be re oh you think it's Maya. So maybe I'll try that said that It's because it says echo cancellation Can't be changed while recording. So where was was it under the the speaker option or the mic option? It's on the right side

Drstephaniehan (09:50)
But you would have to sign on, and then the setting has to be readjusted. It said that it's because it says echo cancellation can't be changed while recording. So you.

It's under the right. It's on the right side.

It says echo cancellation. There's a little eye. Under my picture on the right.

Lani Park (10:18)
echo cancellation, there's a little I. Okay, I'm gonna

sign off and sign on to then so maybe it'll stop. I'll be right back. Okay, we'll both sign off. Okay.

Drstephaniehan (10:26)
Okay, that's okay. We'll both sign off.

Lani Park (12:48)
Aloha, aloha, Let's see, aloha, aloha, aloha, okay.

Aloha. All right, that should be good. Okay. Hey, is that better? Ooh, that's much, yeah, is that better? So much better, okay. Yay, we're able to do it.

Stephanie Han (13:08)
Hey, it, yeah. my God, so much better. my God. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of,

it was such a severe echo. So then I thought I got confused.

Lani Park (13:23)
I'm glad that it's working out now. So, aloha. Thank you so much for joining us. My next guest is a wonderful writer, author, teacher who I really admire and look up to and she's just an amazing human being and mother. Dr. Stephanie Han is the award-winning author of Swimming in Hong Kong, founder of drstephaniehan.com, an online platform for women's writings workshops and the editor of Women.

Stephanie Han (13:25)
Yeah. Aloha.

Lani Park (13:50)
Warrior Writer Newsletter and the creator of Divorce Story Structure, a powerful tool to help women write their divorce stories for their legal and personal files. Anyounghasayo Stephanie, how are you? I'm good. It's great to see you in person. Yeah. How's your weekend going?

Stephanie Han (14:02)
I'm good. How are you?

Yeah, it's fun. I agree.

It's good. I just surfed this morning, so it's all good. Yeah, I surfed this morning at Canoe's. There was a little bit of bump, so it was fun. Yeah, so it fun. Yeah, you have to come and we can surf.

Lani Park (14:16)
my god, you just surfed this morning!

I love that, my gosh.

That would be so wonderful. You're like the only other Korean woman writer I know who surfs

Stephanie Han (14:29)
Yeah.

I know, don't,

well, there's Mindy Pennybacker, right? Who's like the Korean American woman who surfs, cause she said, but yeah, she wrote da book, right? yeah. So, I did it after I got a divorce. So actually one of the last things which I wrote about in my memoir is I had planned sort of a family surf lesson.

Lani Park (14:38)
yeah. She wrote the book, right? So how did you get into surfing? That's a good starting question.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (15:02)
And

because as the marriage was decaying slowly, I figured maybe we needed a hobby, but hobbies don't keep marriages together. so I booked a surf lesson and I was really excited because I'd always wanted to surf and I had never done it. even though I was coming here since I was a kid. And so I booked a surf lesson.

Lani Park (15:12)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Stephanie Han (15:31)
I was with my kid, my kid was like eight and of course he just pops up because they're fearless, yeah, no center of gravity, whatever, they don't care. So he rode in and then it was my turn, I rode in and I was so excited because I was like, yay, I'm standing up, I'm surfing and I walked to the camera.

Lani Park (15:38)
Yeah, they're so good. They are.

Mmm. Yeah.

Stephanie Han (15:59)
And it was like a tourist deal. So you can see the people on the camera and my ex got up and he was grimacing.

Lani Park (15:59)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

gosh, grimacing on a surfboard.

Stephanie Han (16:10)
And I, right,

because, you know, I felt it was this kind of, no, you know, the wife got up, the kid get up, got up, so he has to get up. And there was nothing fun about it. There was no joy. And the whole point of surfing is to have fun. And so that kind of killed surf lessons and the divorce ensued. And then later afterwards, I

Lani Park (16:21)
Mmm.

Mmm. my goodness. It's joy. Yeah.

Stephanie Han (16:41)
I still wanted to do it. as the divorce kicked off, I booked a few surf lessons, but it was hard for me. Like literally I'd be on the board and it was like, would feel my heart literally hurting. I tried for, know, I did it once or twice and then I tried again. And for some reason when I tried again,

Lani Park (16:42)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Stephanie Han (17:09)
I just couldn't do it. I think part of it was the board. I was using the wrong board. I was on a foamy and then finally, like after a long time, surf instructor tells me, I don't know what he's like, he uses different boards. So I use a different board and then I realized that I was goofy foot. Yeah. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. I was goofy foot cause I learned to skateboard.

Lani Park (17:13)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

You're goofy, me too. Okay. Yeah.

Stephanie Han (17:36)
goofy foot and then I couldn't get that out of my head even though I was like right footed and so then then I could serve. I figured that. But anyway yeah that was the journey so it's been a part of how I learned to move through fear to joy.

Lani Park (17:36)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Right on.

that's beautiful. Right on. And. Yeah. my gosh, I love that. And then, yeah, so you wrote a beautiful, you know, divorce, how to help people with their divorce and claim their story. So can you tell us a little bit about that and that journey, how you started that project?

Stephanie Han (17:56)
Yep. Because it's a real physical thing, right?

Yeah.

Yeah,

so what happened was, as I was getting ready to go to mediation, my divorce lawyer asked me to write my story. And I'm actually a short fiction writer, so this should really be no problem writing a story. But I couldn't. I procrastinated. I ate every pastry in the cafe. I like...

Lani Park (18:27)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I love that.

Stephanie Han (18:40)
I listened to self-help podcasts, I worked out a lot, I was doing anything but write it. And I realized the reason I had a hard time writing it was because I knew once that the story was on the page, it's all the mistakes are belly up for the world to see and all the problems. And the worst person to read it really is yourself, right? And so...

Lani Park (18:43)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Stephanie Han (19:08)
I wrote it and as I wrote it, one of the things that helped me was because I spent so many years of my life as a high school and a college teacher teaching like five paragraph essay and structure was that if I had a structure, it would help me. And so in the process of writing it, I developed a structure to write my story and it made it a lot easier. So

Lani Park (19:21)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (19:36)
what I began to do was to teach women how to write their divorce story using this structure so that, you know, even if you're not a writer, you can dictate the answers to the question into a phone and transcribe it so your story is out there. And it's important to have for your personal file for sure because

Lani Park (19:58)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (19:59)
As you're going through it, there might be things that you forget. At least you have it there, right? And it's a record that stands. So maybe years from now, maybe your kids, if they were young, will wonder what happened or whatever, and you'll have that and you can show your kids if you care to. And also it changed the outcome of my divorce financially because I was able to,

Lani Park (20:04)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Wow, that's important.

Stephanie Han (20:29)
put my story down on the page and because my story was down on the page, I had a little more courage in speaking my truth. And also because the story was down on the page, as soon as I walked into the office for mediation, the presiding mediator told the administrator, we need two separate rooms for these people.

Lani Park (20:40)
Mmm.

Hmm

Stephanie Han (20:54)
because you don't

necessarily always get those two separate rooms, especially because it's done if your divorce is quite contentious and volatile, but it's not always done otherwise. And because I was able to put the truth on the page, even if it was very uncomfortable to speak, it was, we were positioned that way. And because of that, I could better negotiate and gather myself and be a little more calm during the proceedings.

Lani Park (20:58)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

That's so beautiful and empowering that you did not only that, but then you created this to help other women. I love that you did that.

Stephanie Han (21:29)
Yeah, because I think

that what women need to understand is that mostly what upsets women about divorce, of course, there's the there's the business aspect, the financial aspect. But there's an idea of shame and that somehow something happened to your story. Like you messed up. The story is wrong. And society actually penalizes you. And what people don't say, dog, no, it's OK.

Lani Park (21:43)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Sorry. Honey, be quiet.

Stephanie Han (21:59)
What

people don't understand is that women only divorce. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I totally get it. No problem.

Lani Park (22:06)
Hold on, can I just go, sorry about that.

Sorry, hopefully she'll be quiet. So you're saying women only divorce.

Stephanie Han (22:48)
Yeah, no problem. No problem. Yeah,

women only divorce under duress. They do not recreationally divorce. They're very well aware of the societal, know, women are aware of the societal dynamic and potentially.

Lani Park (22:56)
Yeah, that's Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

She could have had that.

Stephanie Han (23:16)
Women

are aware of the societal dynamic and potentially the economic fallout. So it's very hard for them to state their story. And so if they state their story on the page, there's a record. my feeling is that it empowers women because then you have your voice back and returned outside of the rubric and paradigm.

Lani Park (23:23)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Stephanie Han (23:46)
of marriage, like you understand, you have a voice, you have a story, you have a life, even if you're not within the traditionally recognized structure. And so this was part of the reason I did it. And I also think that why women have a hard time maybe writing it and I wanted to design it so women can dictate it is that

Lani Park (23:50)
Yes.

Yeah.

Stephanie Han (24:13)
Women are often uncomfortable about writing things for public consumption because we're not used to seeing women write. know, women always keep diaries and journals, but they kind of clamp up when it comes to something that's going to be publicly read. Yeah.

Lani Park (24:18)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

and I heard that this got picked up by Oprah. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Congratulations.

Stephanie Han (24:36)
Yeah, I was so excited. So

it was picked up by Oprah Daily. And so it went out. I'm really hoping that everyone starts to write their divorce story for their legal and personal file, and it just becomes a standard practice. So right now, there are divorce lawyers who ask women to write their divorce story, but it's not common.

Lani Park (24:43)
Nice.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (25:04)
Okay, there

are some that do it, but what women need to understand is if they do not write their story, you marry and you divorce under the words that are written by patriarchal law and belief. And the only way that you can have a right to, the only way you can insert your voice in then is to write something. And with your lawyer's permission, put it in your file. So I would like to see this as a regular practice.

Lani Park (25:10)
Mm-hmm.

Wow.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (25:33)
Just like when women give birth, they have a doula. A lot of women have a doula now, right? It used to not be right, but 30 years ago, women weren't necessarily having a doula, right? But now a lot of people do it. It's quite common, right? It could be a sister, it could be a formal or a doula, could be whatever, another female figure in your community. But they understand that the medical establishment...

Lani Park (25:33)
Me too. Yeah. I had a doula. Yeah.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (25:59)
might not give them the support they need and so they bring in another woman as a companion, right, to help them with this process. I would like to see it just be bog standard. You're getting a divorce? Okay, you get a lawyer and you write your divorce story. Like it's no big deal. Everybody just does this. And I think that would revolutionize divorce. And I also think that it would change ideas about how we marry because what people now fail to understand

Lani Park (26:05)
Mmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I agree.

and

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (26:28)
a lot of

times because we have non-arranged marriages. The majority of the world still practices arranged marriages. But so it's a minority to be able to pick your spouse, right? But what we don't understand is that, you know, we are entering a business agreement.

Lani Park (26:33)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm

Mm-hmm.

Mm, that's true.

Stephanie Han (26:55)
And

if you are not given a fair equity when you leave this business agreement, what you need to reckon with as a woman is that you were never in a fair business. You might've started the pie shop together, but you are merely a pie shop employee. You were never a partner because why wouldn't you have equity in your split otherwise?

Lani Park (27:01)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm. Yeah.

Uhhh

I wish you were there when I was going through my divorce. That would have been really helpful. But you know what? We're gonna include links in this interview if that's okay with you, if you'd like to all the things so people could purchase, because there's different levels that they can purchase, right? There's a, okay, wonderful. So tell me a little bit about your childhood and your background if you don't mind. Like where did you grow up? What kind of child were you?

Stephanie Han (27:24)
Yeah.

yeah, that would be great.

Right, yeah, yeah.

sure. So

I was, you know, my father after he got his US green card was drafted for the Vietnam War, but we served overseas. We lived overseas in Korea for a year and a half when I was like five to six and a half or something. They were drafting medical doctors up to the age of 35. So he got his green card and then he got drafted.

Lani Park (27:52)
Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mm.

Stephanie Han (28:12)
And

so I grew up on military bases. He was also doing his residency in different places, everywhere from Buffalo, New York to Queens. I was born in St. Louis. I lived on what was in Presidio, was then a military base. lived there for second grade. And then he left active duty and was a professor of medicine at the University of Iowa. So I spent a lot of formative years in the Midwest. And then I went east to boarding school.

Lani Park (28:21)
wow!

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Stephanie Han (28:41)
And then my parents moved down to Tennessee and I lived in New York and LA and, you know, I was kind of transient a lot in my lifetime because I feel that that was just a habit that I had from being young. So I thought it was normal for people to move a lot. It's actually not that normal, right? And so, yeah, that was my childhood. But a lot of the...

Lani Park (28:53)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm, yeah.

Stephanie Han (29:09)
like my formative childhood experiences in terms of reckoning with who I was with identity was spent in Iowa, where of course, you know, not a lot of Asians running around at the point at that point.

Lani Park (29:13)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Oh, that must have been challenging. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie Han (29:27)
was a little difficult, but there were good things I can see also about that childhood.

There was a clear sky with the Milky Way, and there was never any dirt, and it was never polluted. Yeah, so there was good things too.

Lani Park (29:37)
beautiful. Hmm. that's good. Yeah.

And when did you get into writing? When did you start your whole writing journey?

Stephanie Han (29:49)
you know, I was always a reader when I was young. Like I kept a diary from when I was in third grade. I have a little diary. and, right. and I was a reader because, it was hard for me to socialize. My mother was a reader. So she had told me, I was like, mom, I don't have any friends. And she had said, well, if you read, you'll always have a friend in a book.

Lani Park (29:53)
Mm-hmm.

sweet. Yeah, me too. I love that.

Stephanie Han (30:18)
You know, this was before, you know, emotional and social learning where they give you like instructions on how to make a friend. You know, my mother's instructions were, yeah, read and you'll be with a bunch of characters. And so that made me a reader. And I think readers, serious readers become writers.

Lani Park (30:18)
I love that. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm.

Yes. And how did you start your first book? Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Stephanie Han (30:49)
I started writing the short stories that became the collection swimming in Hong Kong almost 20 years before its publication.

Lani Park (31:11)
Mmm.

Stephanie Han (31:13)
on and off. I finished the collection years before, but

Lani Park (31:19)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (31:22)
Is it okay?

Lani Park (31:22)
Do you want me to, I'm gonna go get her so she doesn't, yeah, sorry. Yeah, that's what I was thinking, because right now she's, I'll be right back.

Stephanie Han (31:25)
Yeah, just have her beside you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, she feels lonely.

Lani Park (31:54)
Okay, she's here now. Sorry about that. Yeah. Shikarowa. Hey, you girls! Honey has been really annoying during this interview, so can you please take her for a walk?

Stephanie Han (31:55)
Okay, that's better. No, that's better because I will... Come on Lonnie.

Lani Park (32:07)
Sorry, life.

Stephanie Han (32:09)
No, no, I totally get

it. It's fine.

Lani Park (32:12)
But you said you started 20 years before?

Stephanie Han (32:14)
Well, what

happened was I did started writing it and most of the stories were done with a matter of like seven years or no less six years and I did, you know revise and stuff, but I had to wait for society to change I had to wait for mattress girl at Columbia University I had to wait for discussions of non-consensual consensual sex to for example hit

Lani Park (32:18)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Eugh.

Stephanie Han (32:41)
the mainstream media because that's what I was writing about before it ever became a discussion. And so what I realized was, you know, had the book, you know, we can always look at it, but had the book come out a little different, would later, it would have been a very different kind of thing. But I was writing before people would see like,

Lani Park (32:44)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (33:06)
black person standing next to an Asian person you never saw that and that was in my short storybook right a black woman and old Chinese man the dynamic in Hong Kong and no one thinks that this is ever possible but actually there's you know this happens all the time this is a this is the globality of how we live and what I think enabled my book to get published finally was the internet

Lani Park (33:09)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (33:33)
and the rise of social media images that showed people in different global cultural contexts interacting. And this changed and allowed my book finally to be published. Because there was a very limited narrative of how we were supposed to construct ourselves as Asian Americans when I was first sending out the book, like in 2000 and...

Lani Park (33:33)
Mmm! Wow!

Mmm. Yeah.

Wonderful. Right on.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (34:00)
five or something or four and it was funny because years later I was you know and it got published in 2000 just published like late 2016 distributed 2017 but um in 2018 I ran into my old uh professor at my MFA program and she she came up to me and she said oh you were writing ahead of your time

Lani Park (34:09)
you

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I was just thinking that in my head, I was like, oh, you were ahead of your time. That happens.

Stephanie Han (34:29)
And really,

that's what it was. And it's interesting because it is like that. Like my good friend who's a Native American writer is writing her book now. And when she was in class with me, people were like, but they're not on the reservation. mean, Native Americans happen to live in urban environments also. And so actually, as we were discussing and saying, was like, hey, you're

Lani Park (34:37)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

my gosh.

Yes.

Stephanie Han (34:57)
the time is now right for you. People will accept people in different geographical accounts and situations now, but they didn't accept that 20 years ago.

Lani Park (35:00)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

That's true. That's true. And you're working on a book now?

Stephanie Han (35:11)
Yes, so I'm writing a memoir now. I'm

nearing the end of it. Yeah, I'm really excited. A little extra is coming out in a literary journal, an overseas journal in March. But yeah, it's a memoir. It's called Break, a Divorce Story. And it's about the story of my marriage slash divorce. Because I think that

Lani Park (35:17)
congratulations. That's always a big.

wonderful.

Mm-hmm.

Right on.

Stephanie Han (35:41)
What I realized for my divorce story structure is to me personally, I don't know, I guess it's like my time and age. It's more important for like, you know, if I was going to keel over and die tomorrow, it's more important for women to have the divorce story PDF and the knowledge of how to write their divorce story. I care less about my own personal story to be perfectly blunt.

Lani Park (36:06)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (36:08)
It's

more about, you know, you're in charge of your own story. How do you write your own story? And that is really what I want out in the world. But what I realized is for me to have women understand why it might be important to get out in the world or what it means is I have to disclose my own story too. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a therapist. I'm a writing teacher. But people have to know like, why would she think that's important? Or what is the story about how you

Lani Park (36:27)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (36:37)
got this story structure. And so I wrote the story to kind of help this idea of women becoming more independent, to explain that, you know, everyone has this kind of story and they're different kinds of, there are, there's a different way of framing yourself so that you can write your own story. And I think what happens often,

Lani Park (36:47)
Ugh.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (37:06)
for

women, in particular if you're educated, is this idea that you're supposed to know better. You know, we all have feminist class 101. But still, what happened? Like, how did I get in this situation? I knew better, you know? Like, you know, this wasn't something that I was necessarily daily seeing in my existence, or if a person did see it, it's like they didn't want to repeat the pattern.

Lani Park (37:11)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (37:32)
And so women feel bad about themselves, like even being in this situation that leads to a divorce. So I wanted to share my story so that women understand, you know, it happens.

Lani Park (37:33)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and there are millions of women who are going through this. So I really feel like it's such an empowering tool. And I love something that you wrote in one of your, was doing a little background research and you wrote, I now work backwards from death. I write and teach what I believe to be the most important information that I can share with others. And that just touched my soul. I was like, wow, you're really thinking about the long-term picture and what you can contribute. And I love that. That's such a.

Stephanie Han (38:15)
Yeah,

and I also think now it's age. mean, I'm 60 now and so I don't, yeah, so I don't, it's filter, it's filters. But it's, and it's getting a divorce. It made me younger. It did, it made me younger. Right, yeah. But I feel like it's,

Lani Park (38:18)
Mm-hmm. Are you 60 Asians don't raise and you look fabulous

You're funny

wow, I love that. Yeah, me too. feel you. Yeah.

Stephanie Han (38:43)
I have now just sort of a certain level of life knowledge and I feel like now, after my last birthday, I was like, you know what? I don't really care. I know how old I am and now I claim it and I think it's useful rather than trying to think I'm not that age. I am that age and with that age comes a lot of good things. Yeah.

Lani Park (38:47)
Mm-hmm.

Ha

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Wisdom. Yes.

Stephanie Han (39:12)
I mean, I would never go back to what I was. Like, why? And it's funny.

Lani Park (39:12)
Beautiful.

Stephanie Han (39:22)
So these women I surf with are in their 60s and 70s. And one woman told me she wasn't a whole person until her late 50s.

Lani Park (39:25)
nice.

I love that. Wow. I feel you. We keep growing and evolving.

Stephanie Han (39:35)
And I

exactly, and I think what can happen is that society projects a lot upon women and we feel the pressure to deliver a certain image, certain words, certain ideas to accommodate what, you know, what we know is expected in order to communicate, in order to get something, in order to whatever. But once you pass a certain threshold, honestly,

Lani Park (39:44)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (40:01)
It becomes very different. You become in

people's eyes often sexually ineligible. You're not somebody who they want to know they're threatened by you for your intellect or whatever. They're like, no, this person is not as malleable. This person is. And now I'm just like, fucking own it. Just own it. You know, like I have this now and I feel proud of it. It was hard won. It was hard won through.

Lani Park (40:07)
Uhhh

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Stephanie Han (40:30)
experience through sweat, through ups and downs. So, and I still can make tons of mistakes and that's fine. But now I'm like, these are mistakes and it's me making the mistake and that is fine. And I'm still a human being. And now like, I don't care. I just don't care.

Lani Park (40:32)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right on.

Yeah. Yeah, I love it.

Right. And what brings you joy?

Stephanie Han (40:55)
I like the water. I like hanging out with friends when there's no pretense and people can just be honest. I like being and thinking about different ideas and I like a lot of physical movement. I do.

Lani Park (40:58)
Hmm. Me too.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

that's good. That's really healthy.

Stephanie Han (41:21)
Yeah, like, know,

hula has been good for my soul. Hula changed my life. My kumu changed my life. And yeah, I don't know. What else brings me joy? Good food.

Lani Park (41:25)
yeah, I love that, love life. Hmm, God bless.

I've seen beautiful pictures

of you dancing hula. I'm like, I on me for that.

Stephanie Han (41:42)
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's,

it's, it's been fun because there's a camaraderie and it's a, it's a learning of poetry through your body. Right. And as somebody who likes words, it's really, it's just exciting to think about, how are words in my body? How does a word, like, what is the shape of this word? What does that mean? And then with music, you know, it's fun.

Lani Park (41:46)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah, still fun. So who are some of your inspirations and why would you say?

Stephanie Han (42:12)
Yeah, I mean, I'm not very good, but it's still fun.

wow, I have a lot of inspirations. Most of the women that I have invited or interviewed or approached through my woman warrior writer, Sumpstack have been women who have inspired me, like yourself. You know, like I like, I like their writing. I like the way they express who they are.

Lani Park (42:25)
Mm-hmm.

huh.

I feel the same about you. You're my only.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (42:48)
And

so, you know, like Renee Sims, yourself, know, Shonda Buchanan, you know, just Grace Cho. I mean, there's a lot of writers, Naomi Muñoz-Vera, who I've invited, who I've interacted with in that very small way. And they really inspire me because they're

Lani Park (43:05)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (43:16)
women who have dedicated themselves to an idea of expression and expression of selfhood and that takes a lot of courage to put words on the page. It does.

Lani Park (43:24)
Mm-hmm.

It does.

And what a great way to connect with women whose writing you like and you admire, you know, that's such a great idea.

Stephanie Han (43:35)
Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, it's really

fun. So it allows it allowed me to meet with women and find out what made them tick and what they think about what they dream or how they view authorship because to be an author, women have to put themselves out there. And I'm always curious, like, how do you do it? What? You know?

Lani Park (43:46)
Mmm.

Good.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Stephanie Han (44:04)
Like Jasmine Elani Hakes, wrote, she wrote Hula. She

Lani Park (44:04)
Hula. Yeah.

Stephanie Han (44:08)
said, you know, whatever you're afraid of, that.

Lani Park (44:12)
Ooh, I like that. Yeah. Yeah, that is. What is this? my goodness. OK. And I was going to ask you, yeah, what do you wish somebody had told you at the beginning of your artistic journey? Like, what kind of advice would have been helpful that you wish you had received?

Stephanie Han (44:13)
Right? That's pretty intense, right?

Don't be afraid of guidance. People will help you, not everyone wants to shut you down. I experienced a lot of people shutting me down, so I was very reluctant to get mentorship at a time when I should have gotten it earlier. Another thing is to make sure the people who surround you

Lani Park (44:37)
Mmm.

Mmm.

Hmm.

Hmm. Hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mmm.

Stephanie Han (45:01)
really want you to succeed. It's really

easy to commiserate with somebody when everybody's failing, right? Like, no, you know, that sucks. Yeah, they suck, you know, but you know who your friends are and who's really in your corner when things kind of start to go your way.

Lani Park (45:08)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mmm.

Mmm, that's interesting. Yeah, that's true. Right on. And what kind of advice would you give somebody who wants to follow a similar path to yours?

Stephanie Han (45:24)
right? Because then they're cheering for you.

just keep writing and seek out teachers and instruction. You can always rebel once you understand the basics, but you have to know the basics in order to rebel and just have confidence that writing and art in and of itself is an expression of rebellion. And I would say

Lani Park (45:39)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

Stephanie Han (46:07)
Just lean into your own voice of who you are because who you are, no one else is. And you have something to say.

Lani Park (46:10)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm, that's beautiful.

Yes. And what is your legacy? How do you want to be remembered?

Stephanie Han (46:25)
Um, I want, if I think about it, actually, I don't really care that much. I don't, I, uh, I, you know, I want money to help educate my son and get me through old age. That's first. He's 17. That's first. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I don't, I don't think about it like that. I want cash. I want money. And I want.

Lani Park (46:28)
Mm-hmm.

That's honest I love that good

Mm-hmm. How old is your son now? Is he? Oh, good job, mama.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (46:56)
Ideally women to understand that other women might have some answers for them, but I'm not the one to tell them. You know, that's something that people have to do and all I can do is try to do it myself and maybe somebody else sees that I'm trying to do that too and they, they do it. But I don't, I'm not deluded about like, like my talent or anything like that. I don't care. I'm too fucking old for that.

Lani Park (47:02)
Right on. Yeah.

Yeah.

Such like a practical Korean

woman, I love it. Yeah Mm-hmm. Uh-huh

Stephanie Han (47:22)
No, mean, it's like, right, because the thing is, is I think when I was younger, I really thought about that more. Like, ooh,

I'm gonna write for this. I'm like, who the fuck cares? Just like, I need my bills paid, you know?

Lani Park (47:34)
Yeah.

Right on.

Yeah, I feel you. That leads to my next question, actually. So how can we support you? Are there any books, retreats, events or anything that we can do that you can share that we can support anybody who's listening? Yeah.

Stephanie Han (47:48)
Sure,

do. I do teach classes online at drstefanihan.com. I'm I'm selling now my PDF, the downloadable E pub, how to write your divorce story. And this is good. Yeah, this is good for anybody. Even if you're about to marry, it will still have information in it because it talks about partnerships and what that means. And so

Lani Park (47:55)
Mmm.

Mmm.

We'll include a link to that.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (48:17)
I think it'll be helpful and I have had women who are in partnerships read it and they thought it was actually quite useful. So I think it's anybody who negotiates in particular in a kind of partnership arena that might have some legal ramifications to it, right? And so that I'm selling right now. I'm also do accountability sessions. So, you you get a link.

Lani Park (48:34)
Yeah

Mmm.

Stephanie Han (48:46)
once a month, we're on and we write. And so that, and please sign up for my Woman Warrior Writer's Substack and I will be announcing the presale of my downloadable How to Write Your Divorce Story class. Right now it's a kind of a live class, but I think what women often need and benefit from is doing it privately on their own. Not with a group of other, you know, it's private, people feel really,

Lani Park (48:54)
Yeah.

Woo.

Mm, yeah.

Stephanie Han (49:16)
emotionally upset often with divorce and there's still you know there's the haze of shame so I think once women can download that as a class that would be awesome so sign up to pre-order or get your CD announcement on women

Lani Park (49:16)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Right on. Thank you. Is there anything that you, you know, want to do on your bucket list for before you pass or ascend to the next realm? there anything still there?

Stephanie Han (49:39)
Thank you.

I want to surf better. That's

one of the big bucket list things that I want to be a, I want to be a competent surfer. I am planning this now, but I want to see all the people who have been important to me in my lifetime again in the flesh, wherever they are in the world. I would, I would like to see that.

Lani Park (49:55)
I love that.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Yes, that's beautiful. Yeah.

Stephanie Han (50:17)
And, you know, I guess there's a few places I wouldn't mind traveling, but I feel a lot of joy where I am right now, geographically. I feel contentment and I'm very happy here. Hawaii is a very beautiful place.

Lani Park (50:27)
Mm-hmm. Right on. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

that's good.

Yeah, and your family has a rich history there. Yes, it's Korean Americans. They're one of the first. Yeah.

Stephanie Han (50:43)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny because

my grandfather actually, my great grandfather came in 1904 and one of the first places he was assigned to as a Korean Christian missionary was Ola'a, or then Ola'a, in Big Island, right? And then he died in Maui, know, in Paya, Maui.

Lani Park (50:52)
Mm-hmm. Mmm!

that? Mmm. Mmm! Yeah!

Mmm.

And what was your journey back to Hawaii? If don't mind me asking.

Stephanie Han (51:14)
yeah, so what happened was most of my maternal clan was from here. A lot of them left, especially my generations. The cousins all went to the mainland with a continent to work, et cetera. but I always wanted to come here. I felt it was a good place. This is where I felt the tension of being Asian American on the continent, a race, you know, there's, it's, you know, you just don't deal with it.

Lani Park (51:20)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

mm-hmm yes I feel you

yeah

Stephanie Han (51:42)
you know,

and that is a huge, as Toni Morrison said, it is a huge burden and often a huge fucking waste of time of your emotional energy. And to not have it all the time pressing down upon you, to not have to continuously discuss this every single day is a huge relief.

Lani Park (51:46)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Yes.

Mm-hmm. I agree. It is.

Stephanie Han (52:07)
You know, so that was a lot of it and I wanted my child also to experience that. And so I came in 2015 because I was separating from my ex and my mother had finally moved back after years on the continent. And so it was a combination of wanting my child to have a particular kind of American education.

Lani Park (52:13)
right on.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (52:35)
I was living overseas at the time. And personally, what was going on, although I did not understand the degree to which it was probably driving me away from where I was living. I didn't know until later.

Lani Park (52:38)
Right on.

I bet your son thanks you for moving. really?

Stephanie Han (52:54)
I don't know, know, he's had, you know, it's

difficult here because he wasn't from here when he was super little, you know, so it's a little different, but, you know, I think it was a, it's been a good place and, you know, I watch, you know, we're not absent from it here. What's going on politically as, as we all know, this is the home of the Pacific command and everything else. mean,

Lani Park (53:01)
yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie Han (53:23)
you know, it's all kicking off. But, you know, there is a fundamental relief, you know, the images and what was going on in particular with a lot of the Asian American population during the first Trump administration. I'm bluntly glad that I don't have to be a part of that situation and feel that myself.

Lani Park (53:26)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, me too.

Yeah. That's real. Speaking of all that, the craziness, there's just like the madness of the world. How do you deal with that? Do you like unplug or do you surf or what is your coping mechanism for? That's good. that's wise.

Stephanie Han (53:54)
We are now. It's real.

you know, I always try to get some physical activity every day.

and also I, you know, this, what is going now is really a product of late stage capitalism. No one should be actually that surprised if you were around for the Reagan administration at all, who dismantled everything, which is now we're having this wild chaotic time.

Lani Park (54:20)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (54:31)
This was born of an earlier time. But if you really look at a lot of the structure of the United States, we should not be shocked. mean, our constitution was designed by people who were enslavers. You know, declaration of independence, all this didn't include women. We have changed a lot as a national body. And so in many ways, our belief, our governmental system has not kept up with who we have become.

Lani Park (54:31)
Mm-hmm. Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (55:00)
And

you can talk about all this stuff like, oh, but we have not changed the electoral college. And until you change the electoral college system and the constitution, that should be number one on everybody's list. Until you change that, this could just happen again. So it's hard to, people are understandably thinking it's gonna get right again if so-and-so leaves office. It is not, it is not gonna get right again.

Lani Park (55:07)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah, the system.

Stephanie Han (55:29)
because it is a deep systemic problem and

we have to reckon with it. mean, and I think that until we see what we really are and face the truth of what we are as a nation, it will not change. It's just not gonna change. So, you know, I look at it, I...

Lani Park (55:34)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mmm.

Mmm, I feel you. Yeah.

Stephanie Han (55:54)
you know, sometimes I sign off on the news. mean, there's just like every time you sign on, there's something else. And the main thing I think people also have to think about is the whole point of what is going on right now is try to confuse you and put you in a state of chaos. So you cannot think clearly. But right now, what we need to gather up is our imagination.

Lani Park (55:56)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Mmm. Yes.

Stephanie Han (56:21)
and our sense of community. And if we do not

have an imagination to rethink how we might organize or address certain systemic things with the new ideas in place, we will be nowhere. And the other side, whoever they are and whatever it is, will have won. So we need to preserve that space that allows us to have imagination, that allows us to think very carefully and freely.

Lani Park (56:34)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Han (56:51)
or

were nowhere. So always remember that too.

Lani Park (56:53)
Yeah,

I love that. And thank you. And what matters the most to you?

Stephanie Han (57:02)
What matters the most to me is people being cognitively aware that all the things that we believe are rooted in words that originated and have been recorded by men.

Lani Park (57:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.

Stephanie Han (57:25)
Men have historically controlled our narrative. Religiously, across every single culture, we behave often as women in reaction. And we need to be aware. And we need to seize the narrative.

Lani Park (57:29)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes.

I love you. I just want you to know that as a Korean American woman writer, you have been so supportive to me on my journey and I'm so thankful and not only to me but to countless other women. You're really a supporter of other women, which is so beautiful and valuable and I'm just so grateful for you. So I just want you to know that. So, thank you. I love you.

Stephanie Han (58:08)
Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much for

all the writing that you do too, because I think it really it gives people something to talk about and to hang on to and you're a great writer.

Lani Park (58:13)
thank you.

Hmm

and you are too and you're a great community builder and it's just an honor and a pleasure to know you so come up some leader. I will yeah, let's make a surf date for sure Okay, up. Thank you so much Okay, Aloha

Stephanie Han (58:28)
Yeah, yeah, come and surf here in Oahu.

Yeah, that's okay.