The Scalability Code

Elements of a Healthy Sales Team, with Adam Boyd

• Matt Haney • Season 1 • Episode 3

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Is your sales organization set up for success?

On this episode, Matt Haney sits down with Adam Boyd, a seasoned expert in sales development, to discuss the key building blocks of a winning sales team: onboarding, motivation, feedback, and coaching. In this episode you’ll hear:

  • Tips to effective onboarding of new sales team members
  • Why management style should differ depending on intrinsic and extrinsic motivations
  • How personalized incentives can drive team performance more than cash 
  • The importance of meeting regularly with your team 

Connect with Adam: https://www.linkedin.com/in/theadampboyd/
Visit Northwood Group: https://www.northwoodgrp.com/

Are you ready to get out of the sh*t show and start growing your business? 

Visit www.sinclairventures.com to learn more about our fractional COO and business services.


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Welcome to The Scalability Code, the podcast that helps you get out of the sh*t show and start growing your business. A few times each month, you'll hear stories and commentary from visionary entrepreneurs, EOS implementers, and fractional COOs about how they've taken businesses to Level 10. And now for your host, Matt Haney.

Matt Haney:

All right, all right, all right. All right. Give me an introduction. Tell me who you are. Tell me, uh, how you know me and tell me what you do, um, for work and while we're here.

Adam Boyd:

Adam Boyd. I know Matt Haney because our paths have crossed ever since you were at TriggerPoint and then you were at Hyperware

Matt Haney:

Yeah,

Adam Boyd:

you went into the rainwater collection business. And so we're probably 12

Matt Haney:

to 15

Adam Boyd:

to 15 years in

Matt Haney:

that. Yeah, something like that.

Adam Boyd:

and it's, I've always enjoyed your honesty, your creativity and some of the things you've done. And I even remember some of the, the nonprofit work your wife's done. And I had the privilege of attending that. That, uh, that dinner on South Congress or South anyway, uh, years ago.

Matt Haney:

so

Adam Boyd:

So about me,

Matt Haney:

do for work?

Adam Boyd:

what do I do for work? I help companies grow the sales organization, not just in terms of head count, but in terms of actual production and results. And, uh, when I'm not doing

Matt Haney:

little bit about your background. Where'd you come from? How'd you get here?

Adam Boyd:

you know, I got here because I came out of college and thought I'm going to coach high school football. I moved to Texas to teach and coach worked a hundred hour weeks, coach high school football. And I've never worked as hard since as I did that year, uh, found my way into business school because we all go to business school if we don't know what we're going to do next. And I then got out and I landed in a sales training company. I didn't even realize what they did. I just knew the guy knew something about sales and I could learn from him that tells you how much I, how much thinking I put into it. And I cut my, I cut my teeth cold calling on CEOs. I had to sit in a windowless room without a clock and just call on CEOs all day. And we would sell training. We would invite them into events. That's what, that was my job. And then we'd go from there. So I, uh, now what I do is I, I do this, I've, I've run sales for a couple of companies. I've invested in a business or two.

Matt Haney:

If you had to guess, off the top of your head, how many different companies do you think you've touched? Uh, in terms of, of giving, again, down to like, I'm asking this question because the breadth and depth of your experience is incredibly relevant. I get asked a lot of times, like, how many people have you worked with? Da, da, da, da, da. And it's always, how many people you, organization, sales organizations you think you've seen or, or been engaged with in your career?

Adam Boyd:

150.

Matt Haney:

I was going to say over a hundred, for sure. And that's really relevant. Because if you've seen 150 different sales organizations, you've seen just about every model that exists, every type of person, every revenue structure, every excuse out there, I'm guessing.

Adam Boyd:

You've seen a lot and there's stuff I haven't seen that I will run into. And I just make adjustments because I've got some tools in my toolkit. Uh, and there's some great people out there who've done some things. And for your clients, one of the things they need to look at when they're getting advice is what's the background and what's the framework this purpose person's operating in. And because a lot of times we'll say, Hey, we speak as if something is like gospel truth, but we don't go over here and think through, well, what about what's the, what are the parameters that exists in?

Matt Haney:

Interesting. Yeah. And I haven't seen as many sales organizations as you have. And frankly, there's a little bit of a blind spot and maybe insecurity, head trash, if you will. Uh, that that keeps me from feeling incredibly confident in the sales organizations, and I'll give you an example Uh, we just spent uh, one of my clients in the mechanical services business They do hvac and plumbing for large industrial buildings retrofits think schools hospitals Not necessarily big office buildings or high rises big state contracts university of texas as a client Um, so anyway, I tell you that because we need to hire a business development rep, high level, senior experience. We found a gentleman who has 15 years of experience as a project manager in that space, turned business development rep for three to five years. Incredible find, great experience, uh, can talk the talk to everybody because he's managed the projects. And later in his career wanted to switch to business development and we we we are able to get him together But now it's like I got to onboard this guy. I'm like, oh shit Remember I go back to my Sandler days the trainings I sat with with Adam Boyd And all I can think about is my cookbook. I just need to build my cookbook I just need to set this guy up and remember I did a culture index with him So I know how he thinks I know where he lies. I got all the backstory Right, but then I'm going man. I really I really should put a little more emphasis into into this So anyway, we're right in the middle of building the cookbook doing our ideal client profile And uh got him plugged into the crm He's a late adopter to crms But totally understands the value of them and the fact that if you set it and forget it I use the the ronco reference if you build the crm to do the work the crm will do the work for you Eventually, it'll keep you on task. It'll keep you on follow ups But but then i'm like, okay got it. I, I've officially done all I know how to do to get you trained up as the BD rep.

Adam Boyd:

right. Well, here are a few things that people need to think about in onboarding. Assuming they've hired the right person, they need to be, just what you're talking about right now, they need to be crystal clear on what's expected and what's needed to be successful in the role. Not what's nice, what's absolutely non negotiable. These are the things that you need to do The frequency with which you need to do them. And these are the outcomes that will result from that. Then there's non negotiables that aren't just about prospecting calls and getting out and doing the work. There are things like CRM. More companies than want to admit it fight with their sales team over leveraging a CRM. You've got people people who don't do it. I mean, I've seen new sales leaders who don't really understand it, who just cut it, because they're like, well, it's an expense. I tell, I tell companies, I'm like, your CRM could be one of the biggest assets you have when you go to sell. Right. It is

Matt Haney:

every contact you've ever had. There's not, if you've been in the business for 20 years and you know your target market and it's somewhat niched, there's not one person you haven't touched or seen. It's like having a data, it is, it's a database of, of opportunities and all the history you have with it. Anyway, I'm a fan. But to use, you hit the nail on the head. It's, it's buying from the top down. It really is, and I, I'm, I'm talking to my CEO who has, it's, they're using Salesforce, which everyone, people love and hate it, but he has invested in building it out, he's, he's had a consultant help him go through it, we're just now getting automation set up, so we're, it's a good scenario, but I know a lot of people that have just said forget it, we, we, you know, We don't we don't believe in it. So

Adam Boyd:

well, they don't have to believe in it, but it exists and it's kind of like, you know, I used to tell people, I don't believe in these things. Like, well, you don't have to believe in doing it, but it's real. And the CRM has to be a non negotiable and CEOs and small businesses, uh, senior managers and larger businesses, they get what they tolerate. And if they don't expect and they don't demand CRM adherence, you're not going to get it. The other thing is there's a mindset that people have to be aware of. You'll get it in some owners, some CEOs and some managers where they'll say, they'll say, I'm not here to babysit. I'm just here to help, or I'm here to support. And when it comes to salespeople or sales development people, there are a handful of unicorns out there where your job is just to get out of the way and let CRM go. But by and large, the job of leadership when it comes to supporting and working with salespeople is coaching because they should be better one year after they start with you than they are on day one. And they should be better year two than they are year one. And it's not going to happen on its own. It's going to take focus.

Matt Haney:

you you hit on something Uh, the the unicorn that can truly go run and and doesn't and can be 100 autonomous and deliver results I haven't seen that unicorn. I'm sure you have but but my example earlier on the guy i'm hiring that i've hired Is a project manager mindset, right? He's a high detail. He's very systems and focused I know without a shadow of a doubt that if we stay committed to building the cookbook and building the system. He'll continue to feed it and he will, he will survive and thrive. But I've got to coach him. I've got to train him and I've got somebody who I know can get there. Um, we've all got to lean into making sure that they're successfully onboarded instead of just, I'm just, I'm a quick start, right? So I'm assuming he's got it. He's got it. But I find myself reviewing the culture index, his against mine and go, okay, this is what I would do. This is what you would do. Is that right? Am I on the right track? Okay, great. We need to spend time focusing on this because I'm assuming you know it. We've got to build it before you know it.

Adam Boyd:

One thing to be aware of with people who are very detail oriented is their perfectionism will start keep them from starting. It will keep because they want it perfect. And there's a point at which you got to push them out of the nest and say, you'll figure it out. You won't hit the ground. So let me go back. So the managers and the CEOs, CEOs. If it's a CEO of a small business, and I say small, like it's usually under 10 million in revenue, usually five where they don't have a full time manager. They need to coach their people. They need to motivate those people or know what motivates them. And I think that's going to come to something you and I are going to talk about in a minute with contests. But they need to know how those people are motivated, what their motivational style is. Not everybody's motivated by more money. Not everybody's motivated by trips. Not everybody's motivated by external competition. So you gotta know that. Then they've gotta be able to hold them accountable. And accountability is usually to doing the right things. And sometimes it's to taking risks with sales. So I usually see the people, you know who drives price increases? CEOs. It's not salespeople because salespeople are like, Oh, camera's price. Right? Um, so they need to do those three things and then they need to be really good to some degree at mentoring those people and helping them grow in their career so that they can level up to the next level. Right?

Matt Haney:

percent.

Adam Boyd:

Because if you're going to take

Matt Haney:

a lot of time on that. Just like my job as a leader is to lead you in this business, but also lead you in your career. And someone gave me that opportunity, Jason Lippman, 20 years ago, to, to see what it's like to be a leader and what it's like to have an opportunity to progress through your business and your life. And if I'm not helping you get from one step in life, how can I realize re reasonably think that you're going to be interested in, and, and getting one step in this business together. So anyway, that's a very good point is to see further than just, uh, their role in their day to day as a, as a BD rep or sales rep.

Adam Boyd:

yeah,

Matt Haney:

Um, you said motivation. I always, you, what, what is, give me some examples of ways you, um, cause I always think money, I think a thing, a Yeti cooler, a trip on a cruise. What are some other motivations that you've seen that, you know, are maybe right for one person and not for the other?

Adam Boyd:

some people are motivated by recognition, external recognition and validation. Some just want to be satisfied that they're growing, that they're learning, that they're doing a good job and you need to know what the tendency is. Uh, another interesting motivator is some people love to win. Others hate to lose. I'm a hate to lose person. So, like, I like winning. My kids, if I coach them in a sport and we lose, I hate it. Okay? Uh, here's another one. Some people need external pressure. And some will put pressure on themselves. Some want to be closely managed. Like, they want a lot of connection with their, their boss, their, their manager. Some manage, some, some don't. They're like, hey, let me go. And managers,

Matt Haney:

is it? How do you ask? How do you figure that out? We sit down and I know if I ask you a question, you're going to tell me an answer, but you may not tell me the truth. Not that you're lying to

Adam Boyd:

right? Sure. Yeah,

Matt Haney:

the information in a way you could deliver it.

Adam Boyd:

you could observe and pay attention. You can look at historical behaviors. I will use assessment tools with my clients to determine this before we hire people like leaders.

Matt Haney:

What do you use? What's a

Adam Boyd:

We use, we use, so I like culture index geographically, holistically over the organization for sales. I use objective management group. And that's in. I will pair them. I'll say you like culture index. Great. Stack it here. You like Colby. Great. Stack it here. This will tell you one thing. This will tell you another because I want to know, are these people extrinsically motivated or they intrinsically motivated? And the data says that 40 percent of people professionally selling, despite what most CEOs believe, Extrinsically motivated. They're not there. It's only 40%. So

Matt Haney:

Objective management?

Adam Boyd:

yeah. So there, uh, we use, they've got a series of assessments and tools that are only for sales and it's not personality based. Like you could be an ax murderer. You could be a weirdo. I don't know. But I know what's going to keep you from selling and it's informed a lot of my work over the years.

Matt Haney:

Interesting, because I'm a Colby fan. I've recently gotten into Culture Index. You know, I find Culture Index being incredible, but it's expensive, bro. Like you got to have a big business that can cough up ten to fifteen thousand dollars a year. Uh, on culture assessment, but once you use them,

Adam Boyd:

You never go back.

Matt Haney:

to cut. That's exactly right. I've got a guy right now He will not cut that expense. We do it every six months. Everyone does it with the thing. And dude, it's great. It's really, really great.

Adam Boyd:

And what I do is what we're trying to do with objective management group. And that tool is when clients come on and they hire salespeople. I'm like, Hey, let's do this. Let's find out who's not going to make it and weed them out. We're not going to weed out everybody, but we're going to get you really dead gum close to the pen. Because you're going to light a lot of money on fire. Otherwise, so, but you wanted to talk motivation.

Matt Haney:

I want to talk motivation and feedback. I think they're both similar, so, uh, not similar, but they're, they're interdependent in some capacity. So I'll let you, you take the, take the ball there either on feedback or motivation.

Adam Boyd:

Well, with motivation, here's one of the biggest gaps. Most. People don't know what motivates their people. Most leaders don't know. They assume I'm self motivated. I think about my business 24 7. I'm driven, I'm working to prove my parents wrong or whatever, or change the world and they never stop to say, Hey, Matt's on my team. What does Matt really want? Never happens for those who do. It could be life changing for the person who gets asked because they start thinking, well, somebody cares and then they start doing that work. And then to the business wins because the business gets somebody who's more attached to their goals because they're thinking about them. A lot of people are running around just like one foot in front of the other. They're not focused on a goal. But if

Matt Haney:

Let me give you an example of that. We do a segue in, in, in front of all of our leadership meetings, we do a segue, which is a five minute kind of icebreaker. And we've become a bunch of, bunch of different topics. One of the ones, one of mine is on Monday morning at 745 with this mechanical company. And one of the people in the controller is a pilot. She's a, she's a recreational pilot. She flies her airplane. She flies all the time. I mean, how incredible would it be to set a motivation out there that gives her a new instrument or some sort of a Access to a air show somewhere or something like that would mean the world to her

Adam Boyd:

because she want.

Matt Haney:

to communicate That's what she wants.

Adam Boyd:

So in terms, so like incentives, what I'll tell people is, Hey, before you put a contest together, don't make it money because when people get extra money, they do something responsible with it,

Matt Haney:

They put it in the bank

Adam Boyd:

right? Because it's, it's, it's, it's received with some conditions. So like, if you get some extra money, you and your wife are like, well, we got paid. We got to do this. What you want to do is give people guilt free experiences or things that they want but won't buy themselves.

Matt Haney:

love that.

Adam Boyd:

So for this woman, you know, giving her five grand, like paying for her to go fly a fighter jet or ride in one. Right. It's amazing. She's going to be excited. She's going to love it. She's going to tell everybody, uh, let's pretend like fantasy camps. I don't know many people who go to those things, but some people do, right? They go to like baseball camp. Well, for you or me to say, Hey, honey, we're going to go do this for four days. We want to spend time away from the family, doing this thing a little hard. If we win it, then there's no guilt associated.

Matt Haney:

gotta go Gotta do it.

Adam Boyd:

Hey, I won this.

Matt Haney:

company game.

Adam Boyd:

There we go.

Matt Haney:

policy.

Adam Boyd:

Right.

Matt Haney:

No, that's very very good. So, so is there any way and this is a rhetorical question a bit I guess but how to find out what motivates people? I mean, I know you have your objective management

Adam Boyd:

could do that. I think the other way is like you could ask,

Matt Haney:

Yeah

Adam Boyd:

right? Um, a lot of people who've paid attention to their, their team long enough. If they're asked the right questions, they'll be like, Oh yeah, I get it. I see what's going on with that person. Right? Like, look, I, my kids, losing. At least two of my boys hate losing. They want to win, but they hate losing. And I see it. Best story. Kids are playing I nine sports. I don't know if your kids ever did. I nine. My six year old, he was, he was five at the time he was six. He's playing defense, their team gets scored on and my son is like chasing this kid in the end zone. And as the kid from the other team with the ball crosses the end zone, my son who's six at the time says, What the hell was that? all the parents kind of look at me and I'm like, well, what the hell was that? That was lousy

Matt Haney:

Yeah, come on

Adam Boyd:

but you know, if you watch people and you're in social situations, you know what makes this hard? Remote work.

Matt Haney:

Yeah,

Adam Boyd:

You don't get those normal in the rhythm of work touches that we would get like you and I are eating lunch together. We're not like, so we have to arrange these calls to learn about each other. It's a lot harder. So in office, you've got a lot of advantage.

matt-haney_2_02-06-2025_192447:

You are listening to the Scalability Code. I'm your host, Matt Haney, founder of Sinclair Ventures, and we help visionary entrepreneurs like you get out of the shit show and focus on growing your business. We offer fractional COO and leadership coaching services that free up that brain of yours to focus on what's next. Learn more about us at SinclairVentures. com. Now back to it.

Adam Boyd:

But you had a question about, about feedback. Talk to me about that.

Matt Haney:

Yes. I mean I think One of the things that I've learned as my career goes on is to never assume, um, that you're, you're doing the right thing. And, and the only way you know if you're doing the right thing is to ask the question to the person that you're curious. Your wife, your kids, your boss, your co workers. To, and, and I will, I try to close every one on one meeting with, you've got to give me one piece of feedback, Adam.

Adam Boyd:

Hmm. That's

Matt Haney:

you've got to tell me something that, because what I don't, I, I, I'll never, a little quick segue. I let someone go at a company three or four years ago. She was there for 20 years, but it was time for her to move on. And I was the one that was responsible for letting her go. And there are some things I said that I don't think I handled the right way. I don't necessarily regret them, but I affected someone's life that day. And she gave me feedback. Come full circle a year later on how I handled it. And it wasn't all positive, obviously, but from that day, I was like, you know what? I'm going to finish every meeting with feedback and I'm going to request you give me something. Did I say that? Did I, what the duh, what, how did I, have I let you down? Am I giving you the responses? So, but as a leader, that that's an acquired skill and you have to be so intentional about it. But in the sales world as your specialty, like how are you seeing feedback come through and

Adam Boyd:

It's usually, it's usually not. And it's usually too late. So there's this mistaken belief that's a myth that they've got 20 years of experience so that it's compounded like an investment and it doesn't work like that. A lot of them are making the same mistakes today that they were five years ago and they were 10 years ago. So here's what has to happen. Managers have to say, am I committed to developing my people? And if they are and they want to get a return and they don't want to have to fire an underperformer, they commit to pre call planning and post call debriefing. Now, as people move through their career, you might not do it with them every day, but the job of someone who manages sales is to coach the people. Pre call plan, post call debrief, like, um, for your business, think about how much money is on the line for every sale. SalEspeople will wing it, and it's not their fault. No one said, this is what we're doing. So when I work with a company, I'm like, all right, look, managers, you got a pre call plan, you got a post call debrief. And that's where we're going to live. Um, and so if they will do that, the reps will get better. There are tools you can, you can, uh, Avoma, Gong, where you can record calls and get feedback based on that. I'm a big fan. Some of my clients, I will listen to their sales calls. I'll give feedback, we'll give it to them and we'll say run with it. And, um, that's what's got to

Matt Haney:

And, and making it, making it a habit or a pattern and almost like that's a, that's, you know, back to the scorecard, the measurement tool for the company, right? I would have that be a measuring tool that's used to hold the manager and the managee accountable so that it's actually happening. Um, you know, and, and a lot of my businesses, there's, you know, there need to be two big contracts. Two to ten million dollar construction contracts. You know, there's gotta be three, three people review a project, uh, quote before it goes out the door. I mean, the estimating team's building it, but like, we've got, so we have a metric. It's like how many proposals went out, how many people saw it. And, and it's not to gotcha. It's just doing that to, um, make sure that we're doing what we know as the recipe that, that delivers the, the final product. Um, so that's really, really impactful. How often do you suggest, how to help do you, you got your sales leaders meet? One on one with their teams. I mean, that's kind of an

Adam Boyd:

I think, uh, one on one they should have a structured focused one on one no less than twice a month. I recommend it's weekly. Some of it depends on the sales cycle and the frequency of opportunities. The other.

Matt Haney:

turn quick, yeah.

Adam Boyd:

One of the best guys I saw in the world of financial services, which is a really tough business. This guy had 13 people on his team and he had a one on one with each of them each week. He said he would do them all on Monday. Now, this guy's got a high level of extroversion. He can handle that. I would want to pull my eyes out if I had to do 13 meetings on a

Matt Haney:

They're two one on ones.

Adam Boyd:

but he was very invested. So if you want your people to succeed, you spend time with them. You know, what's going on in their lives. You know, their motivators, you know, what negatively motivates them, you know, how they're performing, you know, their skill gaps, you know, where they need to change. Cause it's not just going to happen just because you hire them and give them an incentive system.

Matt Haney:

Tell me how, um, people can get ahold of you and sort of what your engagement looks like with folks. And if I've got a company that's big out of big sales org that wants to get some additional sales training and oversight, how do people find you and how do your arrangements work?

Adam Boyd:

I'm at TheNorthwoodGRP. com. The Northwood Group was already taken, but Northwood, TheNorthwoodGRP. com. Uh, I'm on LinkedIn, Adam P. Boyd, and people can reach me there. Uh, they can reach me, my email's Adam at TheNorthwoodGRP. com. So, happy

Matt Haney:

how do you work with folks? Would I come to you as a one on one? You work with sales

Adam Boyd:

I'm mostly, I, I, we will do some executive development for senior leaders. Um, but typically what we do is we put together a package for sales organization. We typically start with an evaluation of the sales org. Here's where you are. Here are the challenges you're dealing with internally. Here are the spru causes and here's what you need to work on, whether with us or on your own. And then when we work, we will work with sales managers. We'll work on sales process. We'll work on helping them be very clear on what deals they're going to win, which ones they're going to lose. And then we train the sales team. Sales team training usually is not the first thing. Most people think that's what they need. They think they need closing skills. They're people usually don't need closing skills. They need Consultant of selling and qualifying skills. They need skills that get them to decision makers rather than just. How to ask the right question to close, but we do training. We put those programs together. That's kind of situational, like dependent upon budget time, what they are, how long their sales cycle is. The real core of what we do is. We really developed the managers to go to the next level because then we impact the sales team and then we we've got a lot of core material. Uh, I'm actually revising some of right now to create our own workbook that we do a ton of customization and role play with the team to make them better managers got to do it reps got to do it and then we go from there. So thanks for

Matt Haney:

Awesome.

Adam Boyd:

Hey

Matt Haney:

you sir. Keep me posted on all the stuff. You're

Adam Boyd:

We will see you.

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