The Scalability Code

From Cockpit to Corner Office: Harnessing Military Precision for Business Excellence, With Ron Higgs

• Matt Haney • Season 1 • Episode 16

Share episode

Join Matt Haney, host of The Scalability Code, in this episode as he sits down with Ron Higgs, a seasoned entrepreneur with a rich background in naval aviation and aerospace engineering. Ron shares his journey from the Navy to becoming a leadership coach, discussing the importance of feedback, the challenges of delegation, and the nuances of predictable success in business. This episode is packed with valuable insights for visionary entrepreneurs looking to scale their businesses efficiently. Tune in for practical advice, compelling stories, and a deep dive into the dynamics of effective leadership.

00:00 Welcome
00:20 Introduction
03:01 Background
09:22 The Transition From The Navy to the Private Sector
11:53 Feedback is not a Four Letter Word
14:29 Mid-Roll
16:19 Predictable Success
20:02 Client History
25:50 Tools for Success
30:16 What do You do Outside of Work?
33:34 Quick AI Story
36:04 Conclusion

Contact Ron Higgs: 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ron-higgs
Wolf Mangament Solutions: https://www.wolfmanagementsolutions.com/

"Predictable Success: Getting Your Organization on the Growth Track-And Keeping It There" by Les McKeown: https://a.co/d/gTfNGnz

Feeling stuck in your business?

It’s ok. We’ve all been there… You simply don’t have time for vision and growth. You feel frustrated, anxious, and stuck because goals aren’t being met, processes aren’t followed, and your team isn’t on the same page. Time after time, you’re putting out fires only fast enough for the next one to pop up.

Get OUT of the Sh*t Show

Let’s build your team and guide them to the next level.

Welcome to The Scalability Code, the podcast that helps you get out of the sh*t show and start growing your business. A few times each month, you'll hear stories and commentary from visionary entrepreneurs, EOS implementers, and fractional COOs about how they've taken businesses to Level 10. And now for your host, Matt Haney.

Matt Haney:

Here we are, folks. Thanks for joining us again for another episode of The Scalability Code. What a privilege. I have an old friend, not an old man, just an old friend. Ron Higgs here joining us today on the Scalability Code. Ron, welcome to The Shit Show.

Ron Higgs:

Matt, it is great to be a part of a sanctioned shit

Matt Haney:

That's right. Ron and I have known each other, I guess it's been several years now. We've, we got to know each other back at our, our days at Wolf's Edge. And, uh, you and I, I'll speak for myself, but you and I hit it off. Have a very shared, you know, respect and appreciation for each other, because we kind of know bullshit. Let's get into it. Let's say it, let's be respectful, but let's not sit here and pillow fight around what needs to be said. Because as entrepreneurs ourselves and the entrepreneurs we work with, I think a lot of times people are little too sensitive around saying what needs to be said.

Ron Higgs:

You are a hundred percent right about that. And you're right, you and I did connect over a couple of things where you and I were just being sort of straight shooters and. Amongst a lot of people who, you know, maybe were a bit more reserved than you and me.

Matt Haney:

Well, it's easy to be that way. I think, uh, I will say over the last few years, I feel like, for whatever reason, people would tend to be a little, are being a little more candid with me. and I'm, I appreciate that it cuts down a lot of the, noise. So Ron, on the scalability code, we talk about growth challenges. We talk about leadership issues, we talk about operating systems. We talk just about everything. And our, goal today is to just have some genuine conversations around some of the things that we deal with with our clients, some things that we deal with while we're growing our businesses, and things that we've seen over the years that, uh, stuck out as, memorable. So, As we go through things, if something pops up and you're like, Hey, I didn't think about this earlier. I want to bring it back, then bring it back, bring us back to something. Because you and I are both, uh, storytellers as part of our leadership skill. We, remember things and, and, uh, I just want you to feel like you have the, the opportunity to go back. And if a genius moment pops in your head, bring it back to us.

Ron Higgs:

Yeah, those are fleeting, few and far between, so yes, I will for sure.

Matt Haney:

Oh, that's awesome. Well, Ron, first give us a little backstory about you. assume no one here knows you because they may or may not, but give us a little backstory about your entrepreneurial journey and, and it's actually one of those times where, you know, you and I have had a hundred e or maybe thousand introduction calls or, zooms with somebody where you have to give your bio in one minute or 30 seconds. I, I'd like to spend some time here going back, spend a few minutes getting us back to, to your, you know, the relevant steps that got you where you are today.

Ron Higgs:

Wow. And thank you for that.'cause I usually skip over a lot of stuff. I still will skip over some

Matt Haney:

We all do.

Ron Higgs:

more thorough. yeah, we all can't do it. It's hard to summarize, a long career in a very short

Matt Haney:

That's right.

Ron Higgs:

So I got my start in the Navy. I went to the US Naval Academy. I actually started something called the Naval Academy Prep School. Went to the Naval Academy, decided I wanted to fly. So I ended up in flight school. I was a naval flight officer, which is a Backseater Maverick Goose. I was goose. I made out a lot better than Goose did.

Matt Haney:

Thank God.

Ron Higgs:

Throughout my career, I flew an airplane called S3 Vikings. it was a aircraft carrier based submarine hunter, no longer around. It's been retired for a while, but it was a great airplane to fly. Naval Aviation is a great place. in general, and I tell people, Naval Aviation is responsible for some of the most exciting moments of my life. It is also responsible for some of the most terrifying moments of my life, um, at night off of aircraft carriers, bad weather, all of that stuff. It's great character builder. throughout my time in the Navy, I ended up going to test pilot school'cause I had the goal of becoming an astronaut. I wanted to be an astronaut. And that was the path. So I ended up officially becoming a US Navy astronaut candidate. And then when I got to nasa, my, I got disqualified for medical reason. The cool thing about that is that I grew up watching a lot of tv, mostly science fiction. Star Trek was my favorite show. Still is'cause I'm a geek, right? And, uh. And all the Star Trek things. And so decided I wanted to be an astronaut and to be a little kid growing up outside of Camden, New Jersey, dreaming of becoming an astronaut to actually getting to the point where I was considered by nasa, I considered that a win, which was great. I spent the rest of my navy career as an aerospace engineering duty officer, which is, part of the program management and acquisition process. When we interface with defense contractors, when any of the branches of the military interfaces with defense contractors, they just don't build stuff. You know, we have people in the Navy that run the programs and that are, are the liaisons between what the military wants and what the, defense contractors build

Matt Haney:

So this was the transition from, in the business to, in the business, right? You're flying airplanes, you're, you're transitioning. And then at some point went out to the business world, right? That was, that was your transition. How many years were you in? Like, give us like the timeline.'cause I think it's an interesting transition, right? You went from being in the, business as an engineer pilot, and now you're all of a sudden you're managing defense contracts or

Ron Higgs:

I was still in the Navy then. So

Matt Haney:

Oh, okay. So that's still inside. Okay, great.

Ron Higgs:

yeah, as an aerospace engineering duty officer in the Navy. So again, we have a military, all branches of the military have. divisions to where we interface with defense contractors. So I worked on aircraft systems, aircraft, weapon and sensor systems and satellite systems. Last job I did for the Navy, I was a spacecraft manager for a satellite system and I sat on a launch console and gave the final spacecraft go before we launched it in the space. One of the coolest things I ever did, but again, it's one of those black programs, so as they say, a top gun, right? I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you. But, uh, so it was a lot of fun stuff. But when I. Got out of the Navy, I was in a great position. I understood how defense contractors work. I understood how all those things worked. And so I did a consulting job. I at Boeing as a consultant. I worked on the 7 87,

Matt Haney:

There you go.

Ron Higgs:

other things. I left that, I went to another defense contractor where I did sales and business development. did that for three years, which was long enough to know that I didn't want to spend the rest of my career doing sales and business development, you know, to the government. ended up going to Boeing. I got a flight test job at Boeing and I got to fly the P eight, which is a derivative of the 7 37, and I got to do a lot of what we call developmental flight testing, which is, a lot of the testing on that aircraft before we sold it to the Navy and before the Navy started operating efficiently. for real, you know, out in the fleet. I did that for four years. I moved on in Boeing to the systems engineering program. I was also became responsible for delivering all the phs to the Navy. So that was a big, jump

Matt Haney:

So you say responsible, were you, flying them into various locations?

Ron Higgs:

I was, but when I was responsible for the delivery, I was the person at Boeing responsible for delivering'em to the US Navy. So when they came out of the factory. I got'em and I put'em through a series of, ground tests, flight tests, along with the military representatives and up to, and including working with the contracts folks to transfer the aircraft to the Navy and to transfer, a lot of money over to Boeing.

Matt Haney:

That's really cool. And that's a 7 3 7 derivative.

Ron Higgs:

yes, called the P eight Poseidon derivative of 7 37 Great aircraft. Very

Matt Haney:

that 7 3 7 is, I don't know. I'm curious though, how that, that plane, that air frame's been around, talk about a workhorse that's been, you know, amazing for, public and, you know, government work, work.

Ron Higgs:

You know, it really is. I enjoy my time there. I enjoy my time flying it. I enjoy my time. work in there, but I, I got to the point in my career it's like I really want to do something else. I felt a different calling and sort of the longer I stay doing something like that, which is highly specific, the longer I was sort of gonna be stuck there and maybe not able to do anything else. So I left abruptly. Without a good plan, became a consultant, called myself a leadership consultant. one of the things I did, I got involved with some startups, so that was my added impetus to leave. So the two startups that I was a part of when I left, well, we didn't, do well. and none of the startups that I have been a part of have done well. I hope I'm not the common denominator.

Matt Haney:

the catalyst for failure. Ron. No, that's

Ron Higgs:

Okay. But the one thing it did is it validated the fact that my skills were needed and applicable outside of the aerospace industry, outside of the aerospace and defense industry and that industrial military complex. So

Matt Haney:

So let's go back. I wanna ask you a couple questions about that transition from, you know, ripping the bandaid off and becoming, you know, outside of the, the Navy that you knew so well and had I'm sure a lot of comfort and, and wins and successes there. What, what was the, the transition like and sort of how did you, you know, build the business case that said, Hey, this is where I want to go and this is what I want to be, and you know, like every good entrepreneur, it was a wing and a prayer, I'm sure. But, tell me about that transition.

Ron Higgs:

I wasn't sure. You know, I let the universe take me in a couple different places, but I will say the transition for me somewhat difficult as it is for most military people. I went off to the Naval Academy when I was 17 years old and I got out when I was 41 years old, so 41 years old. First time I had to write a resume and have a real job, right? It was daunting. So a different environment. A couple of things. One is that, you know, military officers, and I think everyone in the military, we have this inherent sense of trust. We know how each other is trained, and I tell you what, after any conversation with a military officer or former military officer, if that person says they're gonna do something, I walk away with that from that conversation. 100% confident that that was gonna get done. That did not exist in, in the world that I went to,

Matt Haney:

Turns out the other side doesn't share that level of comfort and confidence.

Ron Higgs:

right. I had to adjust my expectations appropriately. The other thing, surprisingly, was about feedback. We in the military crave feedback. We get feedback all the time. Feedback is part of the system. And, for aviation, every flight has three parts. A brief, you brief the flight, you go out and fly it, and then, you debrief. You come back and debrief the flight, even if everything went perfectly. That's part of the feedback process, and that's the part that makes us all better. Now, we weren't necessarily politically correct with all of our feedback. But there's inherent coaching, there's inherent feedback and all of that. And so I got used to giving feedback and receiving feedback. So now I'm in an environment where nobody's giving feedback, I'm giving feedback, and it's being taken the wrong way. People are upset. It's like, Hey, well that didn't really go well, did it? Here's a couple of things I think we could have done better, and people are, are just outraged by that. You know, just like, Hey, how you know? People get upset because of it.

Matt Haney:

Yeah.

Ron Higgs:

Which is unfortunate because feedback seems to be a four letter word for some people.

Matt Haney:

Let's pick on that.'cause I think it's fabulous and I think there's probably a story or two about feedback that, um, that you, and I can drum out of this, but, I love the intentionality behind the debrief, obviously, because I think it says into your point, even if it's great, we need to talk about why it was great and if it doesn't, but it's the routine, it's the rhythm, it's the pattern of the fact that, you know, that's going to be part of the process. So you're ready for it. I find, and I, I welcome your thoughts that creating that feedback loop, the intentionality behind it, has to be really thoughtful and intentional. Knowing that, Ron, when you and I finish our exercise together, I'm gonna ask you your opinion on what I could have done better, and it's your job to give me that feedback. Most people I come across, they're not used to that pattern. So how do you introduce it? What's your methodology of saying, Hey, I want to know if I'm doing well, and I'm certainly gonna tell you if you're doing well, how do you start that?

Ron Higgs:

You know, people hate the phrase psychological safety, right? You, we get lots of people turning up their noses. They're going, oh my goodness. Don't say that. Psychological safety. I'm tired of hearing it, but you have to be able to be able to share things without fear of any reprisal. So is that culture, is it leadership? It's all of the above because it has to be a safe space in which to do that no matter who you are. So when I was in the military, if I'm the lowest ranking person and I'm flying with the admiral or the captain, or somebody much senior to me. I have an equal say and debrief. I can look at the captain or the admiral and say, you put us in danger and here's why. Or something like that. And so you sort of peel your rank off at the door. Everybody's an equal when we're doing this because we're trying to make each other better. Now, unlike the civilian world and the corporate world, we depend on each other for our lives, so we want that person. Be the best that they can be. So there's the one thing, instilling that safety and make it constructive. We're all on the same team there. There are a lot of pieces to this, but what's the mission? One of the things that the military did very, very well was, what's the mission? What are you doing? Well, we took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. We all do it, and then we were aligned. The military services. Your unit up to what I went out and did in that airplane every day. I could see how that was aligned with supporting and defending the

Matt Haney:

You guys were all marching to the same set of orders. Everyone knew what success looked like.

Ron Higgs:

right.

matt-haney_2_02-06-2025_192447:

You are listening to the Scalability Code. I'm your host, Matt Haney, founder of Sinclair Ventures, and we help visionary entrepreneurs like you get out of the shit show and focus on growing your business. We offer fractional COO and leadership coaching services that free up that brain of yours to focus on what's next. Learn more about us at SinclairVentures. com. Now back to it.

Ron Higgs:

And then we have our values. I mean, those are ironclad values. Honor, courage, commitment, Navy, right? So if you understand the mission and if you understand what the values are, you should be aligned. And if everybody understands that and aligned, that means everyone's working towards the same goal. We don't have all of our little individual goals and everything else. You align it so that we know everybody's working towards the same goal, and those are the places that I would start with the psychological safety and the alignment of our mission and our values to what it is we're doing.

Matt Haney:

Yeah. And creating an, an environment that, um, that demands feedback. Right. I think, you know, it's so easy, and I think leaders, uh, that in my experience, they, they say they want the feedback, but then they're just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure, sure. Let's go to the next thing. It's next thing. It's like. Or they, they end up coming to us.'cause you and I are coaches and operators and and fractional executives that come into businesses and help them scale. Like we are the new person in the room who's here and available and interested and vulnerable and curious. People will tell us all kinds of feedback that they wouldn't necessarily go straight to their boss, that entrepreneur or the owner, and tell them, and I have to continually remind. Those people and the entrepreneur, that it's their obligation to themselves and everyone around them to be honest. and create space and let people say what they need to say and generally hear it instead of dismissing it. so well said. I wanna move us into, a framework I know you love and have taught me a lot about, which is predictable success. you've got a lot of experience there and my recollection and just memories around you sharing your, your experience there becomes, a really interesting piece of, I think who you are as a leader and certainly as a, coach and executive. So give me a couple, two top two, top three things around predictable success that have been, you know, game changers or unlocks for you as you work with your clients.

Ron Higgs:

So one of the things I will say, so Predictable Success is a system by Les McEwen. He's got a couple of books and Les, trained a few of us to be predictable success practitioners, and there are two main elements to predictable success is business lifecycle stage. So business go through stages of growth and decline, just like our bodies do. You know, we get to a point where we're at peak and we start the decline. The other part of it is a people piece and it's an assessment. Just think EOS, like visionary integrator, well that's a binary assessment. The one for predictable success is uh, a little bit more in depth, but Very easy to remember. There are a lot of assessments out there, and I'm a big proponent of assessments, but all of them, you have to go back and look. If somebody tells you you're an ocean, right? You have to go back and look what an ocean is with disc. You have to go back and figure that out, whatever that is. There's a couple that have numbers. Hey, well I'm a

Matt Haney:

5, 7, 6 4. Yeah.

Ron Higgs:

right? That you have to go back and look that up. This one is very simple, just like, we'll just stick with the OS here as an example. Just like visionary and integrator. Pretty easy. Hey, you're either a dreamer or you're doing right, which is in simple terms. So to get to predictable success, one of the things is that if you figure out which. lifecycle stage, the business is in, you can sp target the help that they need specifically. So say for instance, a startup, they're in growth mode. if I'm working with a startup, everything that I do with this startup has to be focused on growth and getting them to the point where they're self-sufficient and where there people buying what they're selling at a profit before whatever seed capital they have runs out, right? That's it. So in another stage is in the predictable success world is called whitewater, is when companies start to become, for lack of a better phrase, victims of their own success. Hey, we're really successful. We need to hire more people. We need to create more products, we need more clients. So when they first captured the market, they were delivering their product or service in this environment of relative simplicity, which is driven by very few people, very few clients, very few products and services, easy, right? Additionally, the decision makers and the the people doing the work and the people making the decisions, were the same people. So you can make a decision and implement a decision very quickly. Now you're starting to grow. Now things are starting to get complex. They're getting complex driven by numbers of people, clients, numbers of um. Products or services. Now you're trying to deliver that same product or service in this environment of relative complexity. And the leadership team, now they're working through others, so the people making the decisions and the people that are doing the work are now different. Now the leaders have to do something called lead, right? They have to lead people, they have to communicate with people. And so you could go in and go, Hey, this is the stage these people are in. I need to help them. With this complexity, how do we do that? Systems and processes, so we know they need systems and processes

Matt Haney:

let me jump in for a second. Tell me about some of your clients that you're working with, and some of the, nuances around. I mean, do you have a specific industry, a certain segment, a certain, you know, entrepreneur type or leadership type that you tend to, you know, gravitate towards or that the world gravitates towards you?

Ron Higgs:

So my background is technical engineer. Yeah. I undergraduate in mathematics. I've got a. Graduate certificate in engineering flight tests. So aerospace engineering and a master's degree in systems engineering. So I'm an engineer, so I tend to go for tech companies. Right. And I have an aerospace and defense background. I don't necessarily wanna work in that background anymore'cause I love what I'm doing, but I also like working with those people. And then I also tend to gravitate towards companies that are between. Five in 50 million in revenue, 5 million at the low end. Although I'll go lower than that. They just need to be able to pay the bills right comfortably, because I won't work for anyone that can't. It's like, Hey, you can't afford this. Let me find another solution for you. or 50 million at the top end, because I like those companies. I think sometimes when they get really, really large, there's some folks that aren't as invested and maybe don't care as much Uh, about the company. They don't know everyone in the company, things like that.

Matt Haney:

so they tend to be technical. They tend to be more technical professionals than, not, and that creates a certain challenge. I'm guessing. You've got a subject matter expert who's very good at executing a specific task or role or responsibility, and now all of a sudden they're having to be a leader.

Ron Higgs:

Right. So there are a lot of folks out there and not just tech companies. There are a lot of folks out there running businesses, but they weren't trained to run businesses. Let's think. Lawyers, doctors, dentists, everyone were out there running businesses and part of their training and education wasn't running a business and business owners, but that's what they're doing. So engineering firms, tech firms, you know, it, those types of things. Full of engineers, right? Who not necessarily, great at running businesses. Also not necessarily great at asking for help, right?

Matt Haney:

that's a whole nother podcast, whole nother story.

Ron Higgs:

Yeah, sure is.

Matt Haney:

but, do you, see, you mentioned like that, that transition from, Doer to leader or subject matter expert on to like leading people. I mean, that's a huge challenge because like you, you alluded to it earlier or mentioned earlier, like when someone generally starts a business, it's a party of one, right? And then they're like, okay, I gotta find the next person. And all of a sudden they're delivering the, they are delivering the service as well as building the business in the. And that pendulum goes a little further towards the need to run the business and no longer be the subject matter expert. And all of a sudden they're left with, and, and I literally saw this today in a, an interview I had with a prospective client is that, you know, I always ask this question if, when I get to talk to your leadership team, which I will, what are they gonna tell me your flaws are. I ask every entrepreneur, I start the conversation with, once I get to your leadership team, what are they gonna tell me about you? And one of them said, I have a hard time letting go of the vine and I tend to micromanage. Because he was used to being the doer, the chief bottle washer, the chief cook, the chief trash guy, and then the chief executive. What gimme, what do, do you see that a lot in some of your coaching as you're dealing with the earlier stage?

Ron Higgs:

All the time. That is the number one thing, right? Just try letting go. Of those things, micromanagement, imper, perfectionism by definition, you know, some are perfectionist and you gotta gotta start letting things go. And, and what I tell'em is that there's, there's more than one way to do things right. And you have to start enabling your team, and not just to reduce your workload, but to enable them who's coming after you. Again, I'm gonna go back to the military. One of the things we knew in the military is that we were definitely taking someone's job. So when you go into a unit, you go in for a finite amount of time, and then soon as you come in. You are being trained to replace someone, and after a little bit of time, you are now training someone to replace you. you knew you were training your replacement. And again, since we depend on each other for our lives, you want that person to be the best person that they can be. So there was never any word about, well, if I do that, that person might come and take my job. That person is definitely going to come and take your job and you're going to take someone else's job, right? And so that's what we train for. And that's a different mindset, that you have to adapt. Do you wanna stay there forever? Are you scared of someone taking your job? You can't possibly do all of this work yourself. So you have to learn how to develop other people and they may teach you something because you need to also make time for all the other things that you have to do as a leader, right? You have to have time for strategic thought. You have to have time for one-on-ones and developing other people, looking at the big picture, those types of things. And so there are a lot of wins. As you could say, when you start developing others, when you start letting go and letting the others do

Matt Haney:

Man. Such a hard topic to broach with so many people. I always, try to disarm that, that visionary leader who's having the delegation issue and, and, and ask them, Hey. You know, we want to grow. Yes, we're growing. Yes, things are great, but at some point you just can't service the the need from the client. Oh yeah, it happens. I'm like, well, then we've gotta find the right people. Put'em in the right seat, train them. Onboard them. You know, hold them accountable, let them know what success looks like, and then let them do their effing job. and trust that if they're not the right fit for that seat, then we know that we shouldn't invest any more time, and then we should put'em into a better place that they can be more successful at another company. But I do think that, it's a really hard thing is delegating and elevating and, and getting onto those bigger things. Do you have any tools that you use or anything through predictable success or anything you've learned that sort of soften, that conversation that you're not delegating the way you need to?

Ron Higgs:

Well, I've got my own tools that I use, but I will say. the organizational structure you touched on. This is really important because I've been to places where the organizational structure isn't serving them, if that makes sense. Small companies, the roles tend to be defined by people, so if you ask'em what they do, they go, well, Matt does this. Ron does this, Jen does this, Ben does this, whatever, and it has to move to a role-based structure, meaning let's develop some sort of an organizational structure that serves everyone, that means not Matt, the operations officer, whatever we want to call. Does this, the marketing person does this. These are the roles, and that's the beginning of that right person, right seat, where you have to create the roles and then put the names in. And sometimes the names that are there aren't the right names to go in. That's what you're talking about, putting the right people in the right seat. Because if you don't have the right people, the delegation stuff isn't gonna matter because you're delegating to someone that's not capable of doing the job. And that frustrates you. Because see what happens, and I delegate, they don't do it anyway, and I end up doing it. Right, because you're not delegating the right person. Right. And then you, you also have to assess people. There's some people you tell'em once and they got it. They, they might, they're probably smarter than you. You're like, yep. Soon as I tell Matt to do that, I know he's got it. I, I don't have to check on him. I have to do anything. And then there's the other side of that where if you delegate something to somebody, you, you pretty much have to tell'em what to do, or they have to come to you and say, okay, but you have to make it all a teaching moment. Ask, what are you gonna do? Okay. Why are you gonna do that? Okay, well, I wouldn't do that here. I would do that here. Right? So you, take the opportunity to teach'em and lead'em through it. And then there's other people where you say, Hey, well you make some plans and then come to me for approval,

Matt Haney:

It goes back to also what you were saying earlier about feedback. We've gotta give that feedback to that person and let them know that they're on track or off track with their logic. So that, and hopefully that feedback continues to circle, and circle and circle and it's like, all right, finally, I don't need to tell you three times anymore because we have a feedback loop created that says, you know, Hey, we're gonna talk about this and make sure that we're going in the right direction.

Ron Higgs:

and, and as they're learning you expose them to the variables that you are considering as a leader that they may not be considering. So in one job I had in the Navy. Every time I left, somebody was in charge. I was a program manager, somebody was the acting program manager, right? And I was like, you have my signature authority. You have my decision authority. Just go and do your best. I would go back, we'd go over everything and I go, okay, well good decision here. Good decision here. Or, Hey, I wouldn't have thought of that. That's a great idea. I wanna do that next time. Now the next one was like, Hey, I wouldn't have made this decision, but here's why. Here's a variable that I'm considering that one of the things that I screen you from,'cause you know all the BS that runs downhill and you do your best to screen folks, from the stuff that they don't need to be burdened with. And so you just look at'em and go, Hey, here's something that I'm considering that you may not, it's one of the things I screen you from. So now that you know this additional variable, would you have made the same decision? Well, no, here's why. So again. They have to be teachable, coachable, right. But again, the feedback piece that you say is really, really important. And I'll go back to that, right? That environment of feedback that I grew up in was probably one of the most impactful things from

Matt Haney:

Yep. And keep passing that, skill and that fascination and, and obsession with healthy obsession to all the folks. and it's one of the things that, you know, we're all guilty of, losing, focus on some things. And to me, I I sometimes I don't focus as much on that, creating that intentional feedback loop and coaching others to do it so that, that we remove a lot of those, those awkward conversations by just putting a space in for feedback. well, I've got a few more minutes. I always want to, I always like to ask this because we're all, uh, unusual humans and I'd love to know some of the things that you do, uh, in your personal time or outlets you have, or things that you and your wife or your family do together that give you that, uh, that recharge for when you're not busy doing your day to day. So tell me some things you like to do outside of work.

Ron Higgs:

Probably like you if you're a married guy, right? I, I love spending time with my wife. We have a lot of fun, whatever it is we do. So traveling, but there's a lot of pleasure in just sitting down to a nice meal with family and friends, right? That's all really good stuff. Outside of that, you know, I, I am a craft beer guy, Most places that I go, I will go and check out local micro breweries. And, if you're familiar with the show, diners, Drive-Ins and Dives, you know, I like good food. If I'm going to a place that I hadn't been before, I will go look up, uh, the best places. I'll ask the locals, you know. So a good food experience, is also good. on the activity side, you know, I like to mountain bike, although these days I think we're gonna just go ahead and buy some e-bikes.

Matt Haney:

There you go.

Ron Higgs:

I'm a snowboarder and, I've been snowboarding for a long time, let's say since then. 1999 I think is when I started. yeah. And, I have snowboarded at over 30 resorts in North America.

Matt Haney:

That's amazing. And what do you, do you have plans this winter to go on a trip? I know you live outside of Seattle, so there's obviously opportunities up there.

Ron Higgs:

so I have a friend that has a place in Park City, Utah, so that place is always open. So we'll probably head to, uh, park City at some point. But he and I were just talking about going south of the equator to Chile or Argentina. to hit the mountain during our summer there winter. And so it was great to grab my snowboarding gear and be pulling it through the Phoenix Airport, you know, in July, heading to South America,

Matt Haney:

My wife and I are big winter sports folks. You know, we, too have a place in Park City, Utah, so we'll have to cross paths up there. we met there, 24 years ago. We were both ski instructors at Deer Valley Resort. we both ran into each other, and fell in love and I pro. Literally I proposed, not literally, we didn't physically run into each other on the mountain, but we, we met there and I proposed on a ski run called Perseverance only appropriately named for a marriage that you would persevere and try. And then we got married at the Day Lodge. you wouldn't know about it because it's a skier's only resort. Oh, yes, yes. We don't, we don't allow your kind.

Ron Higgs:

get reminded of it constantly.

Matt Haney:

Yeah, so, so we love mountain sports as well, and spending as much time in the mountains as possible is, is always a, a great thing for, for us. So I love that you're into, I haven't, I have not skied 30 resorts. I have skied several, but not 30. That's, that's pretty impressive.

Ron Higgs:

the other thing is I, just like to learn, you know, I just like to read, learn, so it's like I don't know anything about that. I, I need to learn.

Matt Haney:

Are you AI obsessed yet?

Ron Higgs:

Not obsessed, but it's on my list. There's a lot of people out there offering these, you know, webinars on all of these AI tools and my, it's on my list is to take one. There are a couple of them I use, but you know how it is with ai. Every time you find a tool, it's like this is the best tool ever. And then you decide to pay for it, and then the next week another one comes out that's even better and cheaper.

Matt Haney:

crazy, Ron. It's absolutely crazy. I met, uh, I'll, I'll give this quick story. I'm meeting with a uh, a guy named Jake Dunlap in, in Austin. His company's called Scaled, and they are, you know, they're basically, uh. A company that you, you know, you come in and you and you say, okay, what's the problem you're trying to solve? And instead of saying, I want to do this, this, and this, it's like we look at the business challenge and then he builds an AI around it or creates agents or creates, you know, chats or whatever the hell they do to try to solve, uh, and create automations to save that. And one of the things he was looking at today, this is a really quick story, but it's really badass. He was working and putting a proposal together for a client that does digital signs. Digital boards at like churches or whatever, and they, they sell these digital signs and he has created an agent that goes on and you put in the address or the name of the client that you're proposing this, this digital sign sale to. It, it automatically creates a Google Street view of walking around the entity, and then the agent, the, the auto creates a goes and gets driving data record for number of cars passing in front of this business. And then it creates all of these things. So this is all just based off of an address queue. You type in the address and it does all this and, and then, and then Ron, it creates the first stage of a proposal draft for this prospective client. So all they need is an address and it queues a series of automations to basically craft a proposal. And you can go to, you know, Ron Higgs and say, Ron, you own this donut shop. There's 10 million people drive by it every day. Your competition has this, all of this is done. By just entering an address and pushing enter, and then AI creates this research for you. I was like totally blown away by the amount of work that can be saved, but most people would've never known. That was a tool that could've been created had someone not been as, I call'em, AI curious.

Ron Higgs:

That's amazing and that that prevents, you know, that the location, location, location thing. I mean, there's a lot of, commercial real estate folks that would

Matt Haney:

And it was just, he said, it's just an example. He's like, I didn't know anything about this. We just, they had a problem. We wanted to help'em create better research on the front end so that when they had clients they would have it. So they went to work and, and AI was able to help'em do, uh, do those things. So that was kind of cool. Ron, I have always loved and cherished my time with you and think that you're an absolute legend and consider you a friend and a colleague and an advisor to me. So I'm, um, really grateful to spend time with you and thanks for, for carving out some time to join us today on the scalability code.

Ron Higgs:

Same here, Matt. I really appreciate that. I feel the same about you. We're advising each other, so I hope to be able to join you again one day.

Matt Haney:

Love, love it Ron. Thank you so much and we'll see you soon. Take care.

Ron Higgs:

You too.

Thank you for listening to The Scalability Code. If you made it this far, please follow the show on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get out of the sh*t show together. We'll see you next time on The Scalability Code.