The Scalability Code

80% Done is 100% Awesome: Enhancing Efficiency in Entrepreneurship, with Sean Rosensteel

• Matt Haney • Season 1 • Episode 17

Share episode

Join Matt Haney on The Scalability Code as he interviews Sean Rosensteel, an EOS implementer with a rich entrepreneurial background. Learn about Sean's journey from growing up in an entrepreneurial family to experiencing bankruptcy in his twenties, and how he turned his life around by embracing the EOS framework. 

Discover insights on common business challenges, managing people, and the importance of delegation. Hear personal anecdotes and valuable lessons from Sean's extensive experience working with over 90 companies across diverse industries. This episode offers a blend of business wisdom, personal experiences, and practical advice for entrepreneurs looking to scale their ventures.

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Welcome
00:47 Background
02:43 A Family Affair
05:56 Early Business History
18:42 RPRS
25:52 Biggest Management Challenges For Visionaries 
38:05 Life Outside Of Work

Contact Sean Rosensteel: 
Website: https://www.seanrosensteel.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanrosensteel
EOS Worldwide Page: 
https://www.eosworldwide.com/sean-rosensteel#contact

Books: 
The E-Myth by Michael Gerber: https://a.co/d/gS1rZmW
Rocket Fuel by Mark Winters: https://a.co/d/gvkmXJX
Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell: https://www.buybackyourtime.com/


Feeling stuck in your business?

It’s ok. We’ve all been there… You simply don’t have time for vision and growth. You feel frustrated, anxious, and stuck because goals aren’t being met, processes aren’t followed, and your team isn’t on the same page. Time after time, you’re putting out fires only fast enough for the next one to pop up.

Get OUT of the Sh*t Show

Let’s build your team and guide them to the next level.

Welcome to The Scalability Code, the podcast that helps you get out of the sh*t show and start growing your business. A few times each month, you'll hear stories and commentary from visionary entrepreneurs, EOS implementers, and fractional COOs about how they've taken businesses to Level 10. And now for your host, Matt Haney.

Matt Haney:

thanks for joining us today on the Scalability Code. My name's Matt Haney. I'm your host, and today we have Sean Rosen Steele, who is an EOS implementer from Chicago, but currently in the great state of Texas. Sean, thanks for joining us.

Sean Rosensteel:

Uh, thanks so much, Matt. Grateful to be

Matt Haney:

Yeah, so fun. Well, as we do, um, in the scalability code, our goal today is to talk about, um, businesses that we've come across that have overcome challenges, visionaries that have had struggles, leadership teams that have overcome hurdles, hiring, firing, rocks to-dos, all the stuff. And we do keep it kind of loose my job's to have a conversation with you in hopes that somebody listening gets some value out of it.

Sean Rosensteel:

Awesome.

Matt Haney:

So as we do give us some backstory about your entrepreneurial journey, where you came from, and how the hell you ended up caring Anything about EOS.

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah, that's right. So grew up in a entrepreneurial family, both parents, entrepreneurs, all three of my older siblings, entrepreneurs. Um, it was somewhat by accident, but I sort of absorbed a lot of entrepreneurial information growing up and then. I was very lucky to go to college and I think it was my sophomore year, it was time to declare my major and I was following in the footsteps of my three older siblings about to check that marketing box. And I noticed that, the college I attended started to offer an entrepreneurship program. so we were like the first year, you know, that took that, so I checked that box. Admittedly it was because it required eight less credits year, so.

Matt Haney:

my guy. Yeah.

Sean Rosensteel:

better, uh, better time in my senior year if I took that. So, um, that was great. Learned a lot of valuable information, of course through that class. And then started my first business. I think I was 20, so maybe my junior year. Thought I knew everything, um, and went bankrupt in my mid twenties. so I've made a lot of mistakes in my time and it was, you know, looking back of course, I'm so grateful for that experience'cause learned so much about life business failure. I learned it was a great lesson. Diversification. All of my eggs were in this business basket.

Matt Haney:

Yep. Well, hold on before you that, we're gonna get to that, but I wanna roll it back because the beauty of being on a podcast is that we have the opportunity to dig a little deeper than sometimes when we're doing those intros and the elevators or intros in front of a session room. So I always to go back and I was doing this actually with our friend in common and Kevin Taylor about his background in the banking business and we ended up kind of going down a rabbit hole, which was actually quite fun for both of us. But take me back to mom and dad, both as entrepreneurs. What were they in and kind of brothers and siblings, like what, what was that like and what were your parents into when you were younger?

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah, so my dad owned a law firm, 50 plus years in estate planning. Um, and of course my mom would fill in when, you know, the receptionist turned over, right? So she'd fill in the gap. She was really an integrator type. Uh, they also developed a really amazing community, in western burs of Chicago called St. Charles. They developed an amazing neighborhood called Crane Road Estate. So when I was about six years old, I moved from downtown St. Charles. This is a town of about 20,000 people back But we moved out to the country. It was about five minutes, from downtown, and I thought I was. There was 400 acres. I mean, it was, it was an amazing because it had such a awesome freedom. And we had barns and we could fish in ponds and we could explore woods, and it was amazing. I could remember my dad, when I first stepped foot on that land, we went through this barbed wire fence. And you have to understand, my dad's from the south side of Chicago. Like

Matt Haney:

Yeah. And a, and a estate planning lawyer.

Sean Rosensteel:

We have no business on

Matt Haney:

this farm a outta water.

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah, he had a vision, so we stepped through this barbed wire fence and he is like, do you see that right there? And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, that's a bull. So if that thing comes charging at us, you better get the hell on the other side of that fence. And I'm like, where am I? this is wild. But it was so fun.

Matt Haney:

So, so they were gonna, they created a subdivision, right? Took 400 acres and chopped it up and did all the stuff and the sewers and the electrical, and the roads and the entitlement.

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah, my dad was the visionary and had all the, you know, relationships and, and saw the vision and my mom executed every day for, you know, years

Matt Haney:

That's awesome. How many homes did they end up getting on that 400 acres, do you know? More or

Sean Rosensteel:

That's such a great question. I don't know, but I will say that like this was beautifully designed, so, you know, minimum lot size of, I think maybe an acre to an acre and a

Matt Haney:

Oh nice. So it wasn't like

Sean Rosensteel:

track home

Matt Haney:

it was Oh, that's awesome.

Sean Rosensteel:

involved where, you know, stone and brick only. No stucco, no siding, ponds. We had, I think, over a hundred feet of topography through that neighborhood. I was just there when I visited over the summer with my kids that we, we took them through it, it, which is neat,

Matt Haney:

That is so full circle. To be able to show them that this was raw pasture land with a bull that was gonna kill your dad to this, turned

Sean Rosensteel:

into it would've killed me,

Matt Haney:

but it was also, it's gotta be so developed and mature now and the trees have to be, I mean, coming back, that's fantastic.

Sean Rosensteel:

it's absolutely beautiful and it's pretty well known in the Chicagoland area. so in addition to that, he had a lot of commercial investments downtown in the Loop in Chicago. so yeah,

Matt Haney:

estate Estate atypical, um, you know, estate planning lawyer. I, I love and if my estate planning lawyer's listening, she's a legend, but she is the furthest thing from like an entrepreneurial visionary that has a, a vision of, of that. So he sounds like he, he may not be the stereotypical Well he is definitely not the stereotypical estate planner. That's pretty awesome.

Sean Rosensteel:

He taught me two things. He taught me worst case scenario thinking, and he taught me that no one can do it better and faster than I can, so

Matt Haney:

I had

Sean Rosensteel:

to. I learn how to delegate eventually, but that was not such a good habit. That took a while to unwire, and I'm

Matt Haney:

there's a whole lot uh, whole lot of opportunity to go down that

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah.

Matt Haney:

that's awesome. So tell me about the business in your twenties that you started that failed and got you where you are today.

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah. In my teenage years, early twenties, I, it was all about money. That was like my number one value in the world, just blind ambition. I wanted to be a millionaire at 25 and just risked it all. And I was a Robert Kiyosaki Rich Dad, poor dad student in high school, and I just, I knew one day I wanted to, you know, buy a property and, um, so I was primarily flipping homes. And I was also, you know, I had a handful of rent to own investments. Um, and when oh eight, you know, oh 7, 0 8 hit, I mean, none of us were insulated from that. For those of Dude

Matt Haney:

I was in the industry you were in in oh 7, 0 8. I was, literally in the world. You were in under a, family office that was buying single family assets for flips, for holds, hoteling, whole tailing, whatever it is. All this stuff. were doing it all. And you're right, there was nobody in that space that was immune. It was, uh, everyone got it. The best of business people, the worst of business people anywhere in the middle. That, that, that, uh, subprime lending crisis correction saved everyone or not saved everyone. Killed everyone.

Sean Rosensteel:

killed everyone. It wasn't fun. So overnight we all knew how, you know, assets quickly became liabilities. Good debt became terrible debt like overnight.

Matt Haney:

So That's Well, you're one of the people, the few people I know that, were in that space that, I mean, I, oh, well the ones that made it out became better business owners because of it. To your point, diversification, like really having, um, and. Uh, you know, some of the same lessons I learned today during that time are lessons that I was literally having this morning with one of my visionaries who's got a line of credit looking to operate and is trying to, and I said, you know, we're not spending a line of credit. Do credit dollars on marketing. Like that's, you know, we're, we're just having crucial conversations around

Sean Rosensteel:

what

Matt Haney:

use of funds are and how we're, you know, strategy behind it and giving him. Not this sermon, but this opportunity to have a constructive conversation around how to use capital if you're early stage, you know, business owner.

Sean Rosensteel:

that's so important.

Matt Haney:

that's awesome. So you got, you, you got through that and then how did you get, like where, what's, there's 20 years missing somewhere?

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah, so I, I didn't know how to get a job. I, I, you know, my resume was pretty thin, like non-existent. Um, probably should have went on interviews. I didn't know how to, and again, I had a pretty, compared to my peers that I graduated with, you know, I had four or five years of a blank slate. So I started my second company. I was about a year in. A digital marketing agency and, uh, it was a good time to get involved with that. And about a year in, I was, you know, struggling with all the frustrations, right. And there was hardly any profits in the business. And I was sort of thinking, I, I maybe headed down that same path,

Matt Haney:

you know

Sean Rosensteel:

Um, so I called my older brother and I vented to put it mildly, for about an hour, about the people who were working with me at the time and just all the frustrations and. Uh, he's like, you know, I, I know you think you still know best, like somehow you haven't,

Matt Haney:

You haven't been humbled enough.

Sean Rosensteel:

you were served humbled by, but apparently you it down. So I know you think you know best, but let me send you this book. This was back in 2011, and he sent me the book Traction. And that was my first exposure to EOS

Matt Haney:

was in out. That early adoption, man. That was, what is that, 14, 14 years ago. It's pretty early.

Sean Rosensteel:

I suppose so, I think it was published in oh seven.

Matt Haney:

Yeah. But the, the didn't swing hard until,

Sean Rosensteel:

yeah, and what's amazing is that is is still in the top 500 books of all books sold on Amazon. So you think about the the different genres that sell, multiples of more copies. The Eat Pray Loves Harry

Matt Haney:

Oh Yeah,

Sean Rosensteel:

romance novels of the world, like the Business Entrepreneurship Management is not a really big book genre So it's typically in the top 500, which is still amazing to date, right? However many years later, that's

Matt Haney:

seven 18 coming on. 20 years of It's oh seven.

Sean Rosensteel:

impressive. And nothing's changed, right? It's very impressive. So I remember reading those 228 pages, whatever it was, and I'm like, I just learned more about how to run a great company than I in this book that I learned in 25, 26 years of like real world life experience. I was blown away by it. so he is like, just do me a favor, implement it exactly how the author prescribes

Matt Haney:

right. That's

Sean Rosensteel:

Um, uh, so I did, so I went from a bankruptcy and then over the next seven years I built scouted and sold three companies. So I went from BK to three successful acquisitions in a row. And the, the, the more I got out of the way, the better these companies did. So I owe it all to EOS and, um,

Matt Haney:

man. That's fantastic. And how long have you been an implementer?

Sean Rosensteel:

since 2015. yeah, so what happened was. And, and, and I'm passionate about ES because of that, for obvious reasons. But like growing up, my parents were busy, you know, and I was the youngest of four by a very wide margin. My dad's like, oh, you're a pleasant surprise. I'm like, dad, I'm 18. I, I understand like what happened

Matt Haney:

know how it happened,

Sean Rosensteel:

Um, so they may have been done parenting a little came around. but I started, my family, my oldest was born in 2010. So the reason I just really love and am passionate about EOS is like I. I had a small child before EOS and then, you know, now I have three kids. But like then I experienced that balance post EOS and what I loved about it and why I'm so passionate.'cause I see it happen with owners, leaders, top, bottom, left to right as we roll EOS out within these entrepreneurial companies. That sense of balance and I was, you know, I was able to participate at breakfast and not only be physically present, but like mentally present. With my family and same thing at dinner. And like I could really compartmentalize well and shut it off to be present with my, my kids. So that's kind of why I'm passionate about it.

Matt Haney:

That's awesome. How many different companies do you think you've worked with in 10 years? Do you know the number?

Sean Rosensteel:

I little over 90

Matt Haney:

That's great.

Sean Rosensteel:

companies and maybe 30 or so industries, verticals, markets,

Matt Haney:

So how many business owners, entrepreneurial visionaries have looked at you and said, my company's different.

Sean Rosensteel:

Over 90%

Matt Haney:

of them Exactly. I had this conversation with a, with a, uh, a managed services provider or, no, actually they're voiceover IP telephone. They're still doing VoIP in the world of, of big VoIP business. And they're like, well, how much experience do you have in VoIP Telecom? I'm like, zero. Well then how can you relate? I'm like, there's the same five to six pillars in every single business you've ever looked at in the entire world. And I said, you're not, you don't need a subject matter expert. You're the subject matter expert. I don't, I don't need to tell you how to make the sausage. I need to help you look at it differently. And um, that's my favorite question to ask folks is, how many times have you heard my business is different? And the reality is, is there's nuances to every one of'em. But most of them operate under the same principles and the same, you know, just general assets.

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah, well, I mean, it goes back to Emmy, right? With Michael Gerber. It's we're really good technicians and then we go get this, we have this seizure and we want to build a team and you know, managing and optimizing human focus and energy. Is different than like what it is that we do, right? So it's totally different. totally different ball of wax there. And a lot of us aren't equipped. I mean, we don't, we don't, I didn't learn that in school. Like, how do you manage and grow a team in a business and have a healthy culture and all these things? do you get taught that? Right? So like that book Traction was the closest thing that I had absorbed at the time to really show me. Not only what to do, but the way in which you go about doing it. Right. And, and yeah, everyone's, while our business is different, I don't disagree with that necessarily. I'll argue that my practice is different than, you know, there's 42 implementers in Dallas alone, right? So I'll argue that my practice is different than the other 41 implementers here. And I'm probably right in certain regards. But I think it comes down to what. They value. So

Matt Haney:

Yeah,

Sean Rosensteel:

the way I respond there is, is like, oh, well I may not have experience in that lane, uh, necessarily, but you know, my job is to have experience with EOS

Matt Haney:

that's Right.

Sean Rosensteel:

is to have experience in, in that lane. And, and what I say is like either you value that and you want someone who has that history and experience everything else. And if so, let me put a little. PSA out in the community and see if anyone's worked with a similar type of business as yours. The flip side of that is oftentimes people value an unbiased perspective in the room that doesn't have that thing called confirmation

Matt Haney:

That's right. I call preexisting conditions.

Sean Rosensteel:

That's right. So you're one of the other. So if I don't have an experience and you value industry experience, let me connect you with someone who can help you out. No problem. I'm not gonna argue that. But if they're open to this idea that we want a third party unbiased perspective in the room, also, we're not there. I mean, you're different, right? But as an implementer, we're not there to provide answers. we're there to facilitate the right answers

Matt Haney:

yeah, And that, by the that is so frustrating. Sometimes the best EOIs I've been with don't give answers. It's also like I can see it in some of their eyes and I'm just like, you know what to do. You know the answer. You know, you don't always have a silver bullet, but sometimes, but the, your point is right though, Sean and your job is to facilitate and bring that and have the leadership team come up with the answers, not to say, Hey, this is what you need to do. I've seen this 12 times before. Go do it this way.

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah, I'll confess a little something here. So early on in my journey, so in 15 exited that last company sent out some sort of announcements to some of our bigger clients at the time. They responded to me and said. What are you doing over there? And I said, I don't really know, but let me send you this book. And then they said, can you do this here? And I said, I don't know. Right? So that's when I got plugged in with EOS. But What, what, so, so what's really interesting to me anyway, is early on in my journey when I was working with other companies, I thought I had answers and I would give them answers in the session room, and I would say 50% of the time I was right every time. You know, one of those kind of a

Matt Haney:

thing

Sean Rosensteel:

So I just made this mistake again a few weeks back with a client because something happened outside of the session and I called the integrator, and I think I laid into him for a good 45 minutes. I mean, I gave him every piece of my mind and I was very opinionated, and he stayed where he was. He did not revert back. Held his own. And then three or four weeks later, this was now last week, I talked to him and the team and that that was the right decision. And so I'm like, well, this is why I don't give my opinions in the room.'cause what the heck do I know? I don't work in your business, right? I help you work on it once a quarter and I'm not there in the day to day in the trenches. Like I don't have a ton of perspective and I usually don't give it. And I made the mistake four weeks ago of giving it and I was wrong.

Matt Haney:

Well,

Sean Rosensteel:

So. That's why we don't tend to give those opinions.'cause what do we know?

Matt Haney:

yeah, no, that's right. That's well said. And it's a little, like you said, it's a little different than me as the fractional integrator. It's because. I'm, I'm definitely involved in a lot of those decisions, especially around hiring and firing, and I have a pretty good, you know, beat on that in terms of culture fit against core values. I mean, that's something that as a, as a third party. Uh, we can all look from the outside in and say, I know your core values. I'm looking at them. I helped you write them. I helped you live by them, and this person is or isn't. so, uh, but, but you're right. Subject matter expertise and nuance around things. I have to get in those weeds, and that's, frankly, that's what I enjoy. But I, I probably would have a little more information on the topic and, uh, maybe not a little more information, just a little more closeness to it, right as it relates. But business decisions inside the business on, do we stay this lane? Do we go that lane? some of these entrepreneurs are just like. If I knew the answer, I wouldn't need you, which is true. Let's figure it out. Let's go to the leadership team and, and throw it up on the board and see how we, can I ds it and come to it?

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah, I think that's probably more of a challenge for you as a fractional integrator than it might be for us as a, as an implementer. I, I had a really big aha moment. Uh, I think it was two or three months ago. I have this team that's private equity owned and they just have such an amazing integrator and I was asking him,'cause like, he, he, they're moving quick. I mean, it's amazing what they're doing. I think they, they're, they were doing like 40,000,024 and through acquisition, they're projected for like 260 million in 25. So they are like moving

Matt Haney:

they're growing.

Sean Rosensteel:

They are growing. So I was asking Mike, who is the integrator? I'm like, what? What is your sup? Like, I don't know how you're doing it. Managing so much chaos and just removing so many. Obstacle, like what do you think your unique ability, right. Or superpower like what, what's your zone of? And he's like, I can tell you right now, RPRS, right people, right seats. He's like, that is so, you know, if you're familiar with that and elevator that is so upper left quadrant and he is like, PE has sort of enabled me to just move as fast I can and they recognized it, I already knew it, and they just cut me loose and gave me all the autonomy. And he has assembled. Such a rockstar, hard hitting leadership team, and it's how they're able to, you know, That's growth thus far, thus far. Knock on wood. Um, but it's just amazing. So I, I would think as a fractional integrator, like part of your DNA needs to be like, we're really tuned into, and it's one of our superpowers, our PRS

Matt Haney:

right Yep, yep. No, it is huge. And you know. It's so fascinating. I'm gonna segue to that, to a client that I'm actually interviewing, to come on as a, as a fractional. You'll love this, second generation family business. dad. Dad is passed away. Kids are probably early to mid forties, so our age-ish and brother, brother, sister, all on the leadership team, all running this family business

Sean Rosensteel:

So no complexity

Matt Haney:

No complexity, no, no drama, no preexisting conditions. But I, as I was meeting all of them, uh, I said to them, we're gonna have some wrong person, wrong seat issues, which means we've gotta get the right person, right seat. And that might mean that you are in the wrong seat. I said, I want you to sit with that because I'm not saying you are or you aren't. I, I'm telling all three of the siblings the same thing. But it's hard because they've been doing this for 20 years and they've reached a plateau and I said. You guys have to understand that my job is to say to you, Hey, you're in the sales seat, but you're not selling. You're in the ops seat, but you're not operating. You're in the visionary seat, but you're working four levels down. Like, we have to figure these things out. and your point is with that, that PE story and the company that you want, becomes crystal clear if you are the right person in the right seat, but how you execute what you do with it. Uh, is the whole nother can of worms. And, and for your integrator that you referenced, having that autonomy to go do those things without a bunch of constraints around it is priceless, right? Like that's the superpower

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah. I find often that these, there are certain visionary types who will hire an integrator and it it, and the integrator feels a bit like it was a window dressing type of a decision. And they're still pulling the strings and they're still making the final calls and they're breaking ties, and they kind of cut that integrator off at the needs and really disempower him or her. And that's one of the biggest issues, at least I've seen, is, is that sort of dynamic.

matt-haney_2_02-06-2025_192447:

You are listening to the Scalability Code. I'm your host, Matt Haney, founder of Sinclair Ventures, and we help visionary entrepreneurs like you get out of the shit show and focus on growing your business. We offer fractional COO and leadership coaching services that free up that brain of yours to focus on what's next. Learn more about us at SinclairVentures. com. Now back to it.

Matt Haney:

Well, how do you get in that? I mean, I know how I handle it, but I'd love to know. I mean, you, this, I'm sure this happens with new clients, right? You're onboarding them. You're trying to figure out the dynamics of the business. How transparent do you get to get with the person who's asking you to come facilitate their growth sessions?

Sean Rosensteel:

It depends on circumstances, right? So like we, we need to be really good at reading rooms and using disre discretion. So it's sort of a in the moment, case by case basis based on all the data I have, you know, do we bring this? Up publicly or do we have a, a call or a meeting behind the scenes. Right.

Matt Haney:

By the way, it's either the right decision or a, or a,

Sean Rosensteel:

That's right.

Matt Haney:

it's so hard for you guys to like, you know, to, to say, am I gonna use this chance? to say what needs to be said. And you're definitely gonna get the leadership team on your side. They're gonna, but you've got this visionary who's brought you in to help facilitate and man, that's a diabolical moment.

Sean Rosensteel:

You, you have to see the big picture and you've gotta see it from all angles. And then you just have to do your best to use your discretion. And hopefully most of the time you do the right thing. You we're all human, we all make mistakes. And if you do, you try to repair them quickly, obviously. um, yeah, it's sort of, it, it it's more of an art,

Matt Haney:

It is.

Sean Rosensteel:

And of science. So.

Matt Haney:

Everyone asks, what is a fractional COO? What's a fractional integrator? I'm like part therapist, part operations consultant, part business coach, part shoulder to cry on, know, it's just being there for the team. And I, I read this article, which I'll send to you that, um, I shared it on my LinkedIn about being a super facilitator and it's, uh, it, it just, it's fascinating to see what. You guys, and partly me when I'm facilitating the weekly L tens is, is to engage the entire room. And I think Sean, one of your skill sets, which you've alluded to and I know from just getting to know you, is that you bring everyone in the room to the conversation and find. If you're on the leadership team, if you're sitting in this room for a reason, we have to find a way how to bring you in and get your opinions. Because my experience most times, a lot of the times, the softest voice has the most to offer and that super facilitation of a session or a L 10 or a even a one-on-one, like finding time to give people a chance to, to have that conversation or to say

Sean Rosensteel:

those

Matt Haney:

things.

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah, I was, and I call it creating space, right? So I was out. A couple weeks back with another implementer here in Dallas. And, um, I don't know how we got onto this conversation, but I said something like, you know, at the end of the day what we do is create space where people can show up in a real, raw, open, honest, honest, candid way, and feel comfortable doing it. In hopefully a way that's respectful and you know, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, how do you create space? And I'm like, I don't know. But I'm glad you asked that question because I want to be more intentional about that. But at the end of the day, that's what we're doing here, is we're creating space where that open, honest dialogue can transpire and exist and, and all the rest of it. And he is like, yeah, I'd like to know, like, what do you do? And I'm like, I don't. It's, it's, it's not in my awareness, but thanks for asking that. And I'm actually gonna start paying attention to. Because I'm sure I'm strategic about it, but I'm unconscious about

Matt Haney:

It is definitely unconscious. It is definitely unconscious and, and. But, but you're right. It is one of those things, if we could bottle or pinpoint or run towards, it would help everyone. But you're right. And it's just reps too, man. I mean, you've done

Sean Rosensteel:

hundreds and That's the art part of it, right? The art is the reps and the experience and the time. The science you can teach. I'd love to bring the art more over to the science so that I'm more aware of it and I can begin improving those things. But also then we can share those, right? So

Matt Haney:

Yeah. That's awesome. Well, let's jump into a couple other things. What do you think, and we kind of covered this, but I want to get it specifically, and I think this soundbite or this piece is important to me is in, in, in think a second, but what do you think the, in your experience or in the, you know, 10 years of doing this, the hardest thing that visionary specifically. Struggle with managing people. If you could pinpoint it to one thing where it's like, as a visionary as working with all these visionaries, the hardest part they have about managing people is what?

Sean Rosensteel:

I, I, I can say this'cause I struggle. I struggled with this myself and I still find myself at times struggling with, with my integrator, getting outta their own way.

Matt Haney:

Hmm.

Sean Rosensteel:

So whether that's delegation or. Um, consuming the oxygen in a meeting, right? Oftentimes I have to like, write a little note and just like nonchalantly go by the visionary and say, you know, speak less, speak last, you know, allow this team to rise up. they're never gonna trust their teams if they don't give them. The opportunity and the space to show up and, and present their expertise and their ideas and their opinions are never gonna elevate to that level of, of visionary. And, and so that, that to me, just again, based on my own experience, what I've seen in the rooms, it's the, the visionaries inability to let go. it's really hard. hard and unfortunately I was talking to Mark O'Donnell, the CEO of E Os Right. Visionary of E I'm like, you know, it's really too bad that there isn't like the bible. On delegation.

Matt Haney:

Yeah, you can write a Easy, easy book, topic. Go. Go in

Sean Rosensteel:

the world do we not have, as leaders, managers, visionaries, integrate, uh, the Bible on how to let the F go? How is that possible?

Matt Haney:

Yeah, no, I think that's, that's gonna be added to the Traction library at some point.

Sean Rosensteel:

what I'm excited about is, uh, Mark Winters, is the co-author of Rocket Genome. Right? his new book is called Visionary. So I'm like really hoping that there's at least a chapter. Maybe the whole thing, I don't know. But I'm really excited for, what he comes up with as far as helping visionaries, delegate. And typically what I do is I found some really good information within, I'm a big reader, so every once in a while there's like a section in a chapter or a whole chapter on it. I'm like, Ooh, gotta remember that. So I have this. Kind of this playbook that I've developed over the years when it's relevant to say, Hey, you know, let, let's talk about some of these things. And here are some books. It's not in one book, but it's like, here are eight books where I've found some sort of, some sanity in this idea of letting go and how do I, you know, sort of fuel that trust for my own peace of mind so that I am willing to let go And of for there, there are tools right within, within EOS that assist. Us with this like GWC course, is helpful. We have to have confidence that whoever we're putting this responsibility on, GW sees it. The delegate and elevate tool is helpful for them. The person you're delegating to, to self-assess whether or not it's in their upper quadrants. So we have some tools, which is great, but I don't feel like they are. All things to all people. They're, they're a piece of the puzzle, but there's a lot more, and so much of it is psychology, and that's what I think we're missing in everything that's been written about delegations thus far as the psychology needs behind being able to let go.

Matt Haney:

No, you're so, so I'm chuckling in, in my mind here'cause it's like whenever I hear one of my guests bring it up, I always go back to conversations where, and I've had, I had my one-on-one with one client this morning and a kind of follow up call on someone that I'm discussions about engaging with. And the visionary in my, in my software company that I'm working with, it's like hiring his first salesperson. I said, you know, we're working on the onboarding plan for the sales person. It's like, what does it mean? And I'm like, you're gonna have to get outta the way. And, and he's like, oh, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm so good with that. Don't worry about it. I'm like, right. Put that pin in. And then the next conversation I'm having totally different was with a, a founder led service based business. They're very successful wood flooring and cabinetry business. Very successful, do good work. And we're talking about his cabinet business and the struggles, and he's like, listen, I really want to get out of this deal. And I'm like, I have heard that. Not, not all the time, but every time. And it's hard. I'm not saying I can do it. I'm dealing with it, with building my own practice, not sitting on prospective sales calls and, and just trusting and like, you know what? I don't want to see the recording. I don't want to see anything. I want you guys to handle it. I trust you. You're talented. Go do it. It's freaking hard, Sean.

Sean Rosensteel:

It is

Matt Haney:

is

Sean Rosensteel:

Yep. we all struggle with being honest in the room. But, uh, two things, one's mindset, one's more of a logical exercise. But I read very recently, like earlier this year, I read Dan Martel's, buyback Your Time.

Matt Haney:

Ah, okay.

Sean Rosensteel:

And one of the biggest takeaways for me wasn't one of his frameworks or tools, it was something that he wrote, which was like 80% done is a hundred percent freaking awesome. Something around that mindset. And it helped me realize like, yeah, gosh, if I have someone who can bring this from, you know, that end zone all the way to the red zone over here on this side of the field, and I get handed the ball, that just saved me a ton of time. Right, and it, it also helps with that I have a perfection mindset, so it also helps that done is better than perfect progress over perfection. So I love that 80% done is a hundred percent freaking awesome and if you need to carry the ball over the end zone, all the other stuff is done. And a good example of that. Another thing I teach my clients when I train on the Delegate and Elevate tool is I found it helpful to work that tool from two angles, a macro angle. And, and we can talk about LinkedIn. What this 80% done is a hundred percent awesome. Let's talk about LinkedIn. If I'm not hitting my LinkedIn marks every week, it's because I hate the administrative work behind hosting.

Matt Haney:

It is terrible.

Sean Rosensteel:

not my highest and best and I feel like I truly feel like I'm doing my practice a disservice as I, if I'm sitting there editing. so on a macro level, I could say LinkedIn is in this. Compartment over here, and let's say I like it and I'm good at it. It's not a unique ability for me, but I like it and I'm good at it. Well, why do I struggle with it? Because I love the creative, the creative aspect is in my unique ability. But then, like, taking that idea, or, or if I do a video or if I create an idea for a post, taking it from just initial conception to it's published and now we gotta engage in a perfect world for me. Just keep me on the creative. Right. So 80% of putting something on LinkedIn is actually administrative. And here I have an integrator who's like salivating at the mouth to help me and to get these things going, but I'm holding onto

Matt Haney:

Get the hell outta the way, Sean.

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah. So on a macro level, it's there, but if I investigate further and I use that tool on a micro level. And I just sort of put LinkedIn into a corner and I say, well, if I break LinkedIn out in three to seven steps now, where would I compartmentalize? And oh my gosh, only one out of the five steps necessary to hit my marks every week on LinkedIn have to do with my upper quadrant. Everything else is lower. It happens to be in her upper.

Matt Haney:

Get her done.

Sean Rosensteel:

became more effective at delegating. So you could kind of use that tool on a macro level, but then it always warrants further investigation, especially when you're struggling. I think it was who, not How by Dan Sullivan in that book and Ben Hardy, he, they talk about how procrastination is actually wisdom and when you, when it happens, you should sit back and have awareness for maybe I'm not the right person for this responsibility, this role, this job, whatever it is, it's wisdom. And that's helped too. but I love that tool'cause logically you can just create awareness around what's consuming or demanding your time. And sometimes you have to zoom in a little further to something you're struggling with and understand the next three to seven steps that make that one role happen. And then you're like, oh, no wonder I'm not getting it done, is because some of it is not in my upper quadrants. Right. So you can kind of use it on a macro and micro level.

Matt Haney:

Interesting. No, I love it and I love your reference to the quadrants and I, I, part of the joy of getting to interview EOIs is to understand ways selfishly, that I can be a better integrator and, and referencing the tools and, I think that's, that's definitely something I, I need to pull that reference chart out as we're. Working on the accountability chart and figure out sort of what the highest and best use of each person's skill because, and it also goes back to making sure we're hiring for what we need, the personality types that we need, and, and understanding if, if your highest and best is over here, then we need to find somebody that's the opposite of you, IE visionary to the integrator, or however that works down the line in the company. And it understanding we're hiring people that don't have the same unique ability you do otherwise. It's like we're creating a problem and a problem.

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And if it comes time to like you, you know, you're gonna start focusing on documenting a process that is, that's like big bulbs glaring at each other then, then all of a sudden it's like, oh, you know, 80% of this, 90% of this, 50%, whatever it is. I shouldn't be doing that work. Right. It's the old, like, especially for visionaries, anyone on the leadership team like don't do$25 an hour work. That that mindset, right. And that, that I think was who, not how that, that comes from Strategic Coach, but

Matt Haney:

Yeah. We always talk about working two levels down and the struggles and challenges that come with that between making sure that like you are doing, you are doing the work of the people and the people not, not the people in terms of a derogatory meaning, but your, the, the people on the team like, and they know that too. They're not idiots. They know that you're trying to do their job for them. Like, and, and you know, the distrust and, and challenge you create outta that. While it feels like I can just get it done myself, the reality is you are a taking longer, not the best person to do the job, and you're creating, contention potentially with the team

Sean Rosensteel:

for

Matt Haney:

stepping on toes.

Sean Rosensteel:

That's right. And depending on the size of the business, like I love looking at the accountability chart and being like, visionary, we need you on the million dollar problems. The highest and best use of your brain is their leadership team. A hundred thousand dollars problems. Next level, down 10,000. We need every, everyone here matters. Everyone is important. No matter if your problem's$10 or a million, there's a place here for So this isn't a hierarchy, but like we all need to be focused on the right level of A A percent we can put that visionary into that growth lane, you know, that creative problem solving lane, everything else, the better. But oftentimes because of the size of businesses we work with. Yeah. That is a process in and of itself, right? They, if they finally get there, they feel like they're going out to pasture and they kind of lose their purpose, lose themselves. They get all doors disoriented. their hands need to be held through that.

Matt Haney:

Yes, very well said that transition is challenging and you, you and I are lucky in the sense that we get to be, you know, counselors a lot to some of these folks. When you create part, I don't think it's un unsaid or unspoken. Creating the structure and the accountability and the process does make a lot of visionaries feel less than like, because you started your Absolutely. And you started it, your business. I started my business by getting the endorphin rush by solving problems and growing and scaling. And you take that away and you do, they do find themselves, you know, it's that, oh, I just want more time to do this, and I just, you get it. And they go, oh, I gotta create chaos because I need something to do. And I'm like, to your point, go, go start a new business unit. Let's go back to the long-term issues. Let's, we can find something that's not distracting or disrupting to what the, the

Sean Rosensteel:

Well, I was here. Some of them can be the chief of police and the lead arsonist, right? it's like, you know, again, I find no fault. I, I, I honor them. I love them to death. They, they're living in the results economy. They, they took the risk. So, know, I admire them Tremend.

Matt Haney:

That's awesome. Well, a couple more questions and I'll let you hop off. What do you do outside of work? Like what keeps you, uh, you know, challenged? Obviously you got some children. I got some children, but is there any hobbies or anything, any passions that. You know, keep you fueled

Sean Rosensteel:

I have too many. Matt. I have a

Matt Haney:

man of many, many hobbies.

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah, so I recently this, this year has been a big year of self-care.

Matt Haney:

All right?

Sean Rosensteel:

Um, unfortunately went through, uh, a divorce last year and, um, still working through it, a lot of big changes, uh, occurred in, in my life and my children's lives. So, this year's been a big year of self-care, so I've been doing a lot of reading.

Matt Haney:

Nice.

Sean Rosensteel:

I read about a book a week and I, and I've been outta that habit for three to five year, like a while. I used to read a book a week consistently for over a decade. I've been out of that. So getting back into that feels really right and I'm reading more like, uh, fiction and spirituality, you know, less business books. I still read those on occasion, but more just kind of, it's like my escape,

Matt Haney:

right So

Sean Rosensteel:

more just kind of enjoying a free day and. Laying out and getting some good reading done and using my imagination and all that.

Matt Haney:

Good for you, man. of the, uh, the vulnerability and, and there. That's always something that we all need to focus on. But good for you for leaning in and a book a week. Damn. That's impressive, man. And, um, the intentionality behind, it's even more impressive.

Sean Rosensteel:

yeah. Yeah. So that's been good. I've been doing a lot of swimming. year, which has been awesome. A lot of walking and listening to audiobooks. Typically, I'll take a business book down via audio bowl. Um, I really love pickleball. be really great at pickleball and, uh,

Matt Haney:

getting back into it. Do you, uh, play in a league or are you, like, is there a local, like how do you, what, how do during

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah, I ate it up during COVID, so I was in a racketball league for many years and COVID hit and it was like, maybe I shouldn't be sharing this box with three other men. And we're sweating and and puffing and we don't know what's going on with COVID so. I stopped that and I had a really good friend in the neighborhood who's like, dude, you gotta come play pickleball. And I'm like, that's for old people with bad knees. Why the heck would I waste my time pickleball? And then I'm so grateful that he can, he was persistent. And after like three months of him bugging me weekly, I finally played. And after five minutes of being on the court, I'm like, I'll never play racketball again. This is like being a giant standing on a ping pong table. I just love it. And there's so much strategy like chess. So it, I love anything that keeps me radically present.

Matt Haney:

you can't anything when you've got a pickleball paddle in your hand

Sean Rosensteel:

except Like if you're playing competitively and you're thinking about what happened an hour ago or what's happening tonight, you're gonna get hit in the face and there's gonna be a mark, you know?

Matt Haney:

I, I, I reference that a lot with my kids. It's screen free activities and is one of'em. My kid, my 13-year-old son loves pickleball. Um, and I don't play, my oldest daughter is a competitive tennis player. She lives at a tennis outta state as a 15-year-old, and crushes it. But, I love that sport be, I think it's done a lot of great things. I think there's been a lot of. you know, orthopedic surgeons that have benefited from the pickleball craze, but I also know a lot of middle aged men and women that have really found a lot about themselves on the court, which is awesome.

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah, that's true. I've been playing less competitively this year because of the injuries. I mean, everyone I know who I used to compete with was out for six. You know, something happened. I was very fortunate.

Matt Haney:

But, man, talk about, talk about a great game. Racquetball. You mentioned racquetball. I haven't. I have some friends that played, and I grew up in a town in Texas where the YMCA was the only place that had racquetball courts and my dad's buddies, he never played, but his buddies used to. And watching those guys. Come out of the gym while we're practicing basketball or whatever, they come outta the racquetball court and I'm like, they're just drenched with the glasses and they're just, you know, ruined from playing full speed in

Sean Rosensteel:

got welts all over my

Matt Haney:

gosh. you ever play squash or get in, you ever hit a

Sean Rosensteel:

No, I never got into squash.

Matt Haney:

Yeah, those, those paddle sports are fun. I, I feel like there's, um, maybe with any sport, but specifically racket sports, there's the, the 1% and everyone else.

Sean Rosensteel:

That's right.

Matt Haney:

You know, I mean, like, you're either really freaking good at it or you're just

Sean Rosensteel:

Or you just annoy the heck out of the people who are really

Matt Haney:

Yeah, that's exactly right. Well, I'm golfer and I do feel I I, I, do feel that way too. It's the one thing I, I always tell everybody, it's the one thing I'm decent at or good at, and, playing with someone who is less than decent is very painful.

Sean Rosensteel:

Yeah,

Matt Haney:

Very painful, it's

Sean Rosensteel:

not Cart golf. Send him in the other cart.

Matt Haney:

I'm not, better than you. I mean, I'm better at you, but I'm not any better than you. We all have our own problems.

Sean Rosensteel:

That's awesome

Matt Haney:

well, hey Sean, this has been awesome to get to know you and I really appreciate you joining and sharing some vulnerability and sharing some of your expertise and wisdom. and I really look forward to, uh, seeing you in a few weeks up at the, we run on EOS event in Dallas. I'm looking forward to getting to know the other 41 of you implementers. That's crazy me. Down in Austin we've got 10, you guys got 41 3 hours up the road,

Sean Rosensteel:

It's crazy. Yeah. As I mentioned, I'm in session, but I will pop over as soon as I can when that's

Matt Haney:

done Well thanks for joining on the scalability code and uh, I look forward to talking to you soon, Sean.

Sean Rosensteel:

Thanks so much, Matt, for having me. I appreciate it.

Matt Haney:

You got it.

Thank you for listening to The Scalability Code. If you made it this far, please follow the show on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get out of the sh*t show together. We'll see you next time on The Scalability Code.