What 30 Years of Operating Teaches You About People, Power, and Delegation | George Bonelli

What does 30 years of operating experience teach you about people, power, and delegation?

In this episode of The Scalability Code, Matt Haney is joined by Fractional Executive and longtime operator George Bonelli for a candid conversation about the realities of leadership inside growing businesses.

Drawing from a career that includes managing large-scale infrastructure programs at Motorola, building and scaling an early shared-asset business, and advising leadership teams as a consultant and fractional executive, George shares practical lessons on what actually breaks as organizations grow.

This episode explores:

• Why people management, not strategy, is often the biggest bottleneck to scale
• The hidden cost of poor delegation and unclear accountability
• How culture can both enable and limit growth
• Why founders struggle to let go—and how to do it without losing control

If you’re a founder or executive navigating growth, delegation, and leadership complexity, this conversation offers grounded insight from someone who has lived it across multiple industries and business models.

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Transcript

George Bonelli 0:00

We need to get access to these locations, either through a lease, through ownership, whatever the case is. So we would acquire some properties, we would lease some properties, and then we'd have to go into engineering and we'd have, engineers do the designs to design the foundations, and then we'd have crews come in and build the foundations, and we'd have, manufacturers ship in the steel and when you drive by one of those towers with all the, all the stuff and the antennas on 'em, that's three years worth of work

0:24

Welcome to The Scalability Code, the podcast that helps you get out of the sh*t show and start growing your business. A few times each month, you'll hear stories and commentary from visionary entrepreneurs, EOS implementers, and fractional COOs about how they've taken businesses to Level 10. And now for your host, Matt Haney.

Matt Haney 0:43

All right. Here we are on another episode of the Scalability Code. Today joining us is an old, near and dear friend of mine, George Benelli. George, welcome to the Scalability Code.

George Bonelli 0:53

Well, thanks for having me, Mr. Haney. It's appreciated.

Matt Haney 0:56

Nice to, uh, see a familiar face. George and I have known each other the better part of God. I bet it's been close to 20 years or so.

George Bonelli 1:03

easily.

Matt Haney 1:04

uh, we've, drifted away and apart and away and back again, not because of any other reasons than life happening. but George is a very trusted colleague of mine and somebody. I come to with a lot of challenges and he's also somebody that has joined our team as a fractional COO and. George and I have worked on a few engagements together, and, uh, I really enjoy having the chance to, uh, share our experiences and commiserate and laugh. And, George and I both have potty mouths, which I love because that means we don't take ourselves too seriously. and I just wanted to bring him on today to have a, conversation around his career, his time as a fractional COO. His time as a fractional executive and a lot of the various things that he's done. And then we'll jump into some key issues around, dealing with people. So, George, nice to see you again, my friend.

George Bonelli 1:57

Likewise. It's good to see you, you and your familiar background. And my, my, me and my new background, uh, I, I'm not quite as experienced on the podcast front, so I'm excited to have the conversation.

Matt Haney 2:06

Well, one of the things I always say to folks when, when we bring 'em on is like, we're also accustomed to like rushing through introductions with everybody. It's like, how quickly can we say who we are and what we've done in one minute on an intro call with a bunch of other people on screens? Hurry, tell 'em. Tell 'em, get it out. But I think this, format allows us to, to go back and reflect on what got us to where we are today. Uh, and it's always something that I think reminds me of the The journey, right, and where we've come from. So I want you to take some time, you didn't lose all your hair and get that gray in your beard overnight. So let's go back to your days of, you know, who impression you as an entrepreneur, um, as a kid. And then let's get to your early career and your middle career, and then where you're today. So go back to the days on the East Coast.

George Bonelli 2:56

Yeah. Thanks. I, I grow this in for the end of the year. It's my, my Santa thing, so, uh, I love it. Um. Not many people do. But anyway, uh, yeah. So basically I like to break it down into a couple things. I look at it like pillars, right? So there's a, there's a, there's a corporate component to my background or career history. There's an entrepreneurial component and there's a consulting component, right? And so it didn't happen in that order. It was corporate consulting, entrepreneurial. So corporate would be, uh, I spent about 10 years or so at Motorola, Motorola managing. multimillion dollar program. So for the better part of a decade, I was managing programs with large state level entities. New York, fire department, uh, the New Jersey State Police, New Jersey Transit. This is all up in the northeast, up in New York, New Jersey area. and that was awesome because I got the opportunity to work with, you know, large entities, negotiate multimillion dollar contracts, things like that. So that was kind of an MBA,

Matt Haney 3:51

Question. What? What was the service like? What were you doing? Obviously Motorola people think of, I think of, I think of radios, but I don't know what you were doing then.

George Bonelli 3:59

So yeah, at that point it was literally, we were, we were building radio systems for large public entities. So think of like New Jersey Transit has all these buses, trucks, maintenance trucks, cars, all this, all over the entire state of New Jersey. So we built them a state. Completely, linked and integrated communication system. So that had towers and buildings and buses and radios and buses and radios and cars and radios in New and interoperability with New Jersey State Police and, you know, and, and local police, you know, departments and things like that. So we engineered, designed, acquired property, built towers, installed buildings, put in, you know, UPSs. Propane and gas generators and all these different things, multi, multi-year programs, uh, approaching 30, 40, $50 million. So learned a lot in that space and, and how to, you know, how to handle yourself and, you know, in different rooms with different people. 'cause we were responsible as program managers for p and ls ops, reviews, all the things. So we, you know, had a, it was pretty cool. Motorola was awesome because. they invested a lot in the systems integration piece where we, we were also PMP, so we were, uh, pro project management professionals certified. so all, all the things from a program management pers

Matt Haney 5:18

So you're saying they made it, they made it easy for you to work with everyone else, whereas I think some people are like, just go figure that shit out. and and you're saying they invested in the infrastructure on helping you guys. You know, fluidly chat and, and communicate. What did that look like? 'cause I'm gonna date you a little bit. Um, that wasn't, uh, monday.com or a project management resource of your choice. Then what were you guys doing to manage all that shit? Were you file saving excels on the desktop?

George Bonelli 5:45

Oh, oh. In terms of tools, I mean, the. PMP professional piece, the certification covers all these different areas, right? Scheduling, communications, purchasing, you know, all the different things, right? And so tools is just one piece of it. So we, you know, we were using, there were tools back then, there were software tools back then. So, I mean, literally this is, you know, 30, 30 years ago. So, um, uh, you know, so I mean, there was Primavera and there was, you know, project, uh, I'm not sure if it was Microsoft Project, hell, I'm trying to remember now. But, um. know, there were, there were, uh, project management software tools that we were using. Um, but the, the job really geared more towards managing people. You know, back back to the, you know, the intro, and the interesting thing with this was there were matrix teams, so I had a team of people that I had to get things done through, but none of them reported to me. I just had them. Right. They reported like the engineers reported to their engineering. You know, organization, you know, other folks, service people reported to the service organization, but they were assigned to me for a project, so I had to get them to do things.

Matt Haney 6:50

But you weren't their boss.

George Bonelli 6:51

I I, yeah. I didn't have a stick. I could only use the carrot. Right. So yeah, it was, that was an interesting, so, so yeah, so that's the Motorola piece. then, actually that's what got me down to Austin, Texas was coming down here. Uh, 'cause the city of Austin ended up, I forget the, the amount, but I think they ended up signing like a 20 to $25 billion deal with Motorola for a similar citywide, interoperable, system. And that.

Matt Haney 7:15

Was your team literally like building towers on the corner of X and y and buying real estate to do all that stuff? Like what was the level of intimacy in the kind of the greater project?

George Bonelli 7:25

it was all of that. So literally we would have to go find and acquire property either on behalf of or with, the owner, right? So maybe the city owned the property. We would sit with them and our engineers would sit down and say, we need, this is the coverage we want. These are the places we need to put towers. We need to get access to these locations, either through a lease, through ownership, whatever the case is. I mean, again, it takes a long time to work through these things. So we would acquire some properties, we would lease some properties, and then we'd have to go into engineering and we'd have, you know, uh. Engineers do the designs to design the foundations, and then we'd have crews come in and build, build the foundations, and we'd have, uh, manufacturers ship in the steel and build the tower. So, yeah, so you, when you drive by one of those towers with all the, all the stuff and the antennas on 'em, that's three years worth of work just to get that

Matt Haney 8:11

just to put it on the ground.

George Bonelli 8:13

Yeah, it's a, it's a relatively large undertaking and um, and there's a lot of engineering that goes in into why that's there. Typically they're, you know, in elevated positions 'cause you want to hire the better Anyway, so yeah. So moved down here with, with Motorola. spent a couple years. probably like two years doing that. And then, at that point started to branch out doing my own thing. So that's where the consulting piece comes in. So I took that 10 plus years of program management experience and applied it to, some relationships that I developed in the Dallas area started helping some technology companies solve some of their implementation problems, let's say. So I basically became. A hired gun program manager. So I'd come in and kind of troubleshoot what's going on with this project. We would stop it. I, I worked in a couple of, projects with this kind of group of folks that, that were, we were going, we were going around and just kinda helping CIOs and CTOs, uh, implement these technology solutions,

Matt Haney 9:08

And what, gimme an example. What were those companies like? What, what size and

George Bonelli 9:11

So, so you think of like Capital One Auto Finance in Dallas.

Matt Haney 9:15

Oh yeah. They're huge.

George Bonelli 9:16

Right. And so, a gentleman came in as their new, head of technology, you know, had a vision for where they needed to go based on where they were in the market, and decided that what they had in place wasn't sufficient and that they needed to move in a different direction. And so it was how quickly can we get, you know. A chunk of that technology in place so that way they can attack the market the way they want it to, the way they, you know, offer new technology solutions or services for their customers and their employees. And so we would help them build those things and uh, you know, just get things moving along.

Matt Haney 9:46

Very cool. So a couple years as a consultant, few

George Bonelli 9:49

So, yeah. And then, um, actually that's, that's, this is, this is kind of where we started to operate. So I worked with another friend of ours, Jason, um, doing some short term real estate stuff. And then at the same time, that's where the entrepreneurial piece kind of comes in, where at that same general area, around 2099, 2000, 2001, uh, started this shared. Shared asset business called sale time, which was early days of shared assets, uh, because the sharing economy wasn't a thing yet. There was no Uber. yeah, there was no Airbnb. Those things were post iPhone and iPhone is 2007.

Matt Haney 10:30

and those, there wasn't even like fractional airplane ownership at that point, I don't think

George Bonelli 10:35

there Might've been there. What? I think there was some, 'cause there was one other competitor in our space, and it was one person in Chicago and what he was doing was sharing boat, sharing a boat amongst a small group of people. So it wasn't, it wasn't broad, it was very. Small and focused, you know, 'cause you know, people had boats and they shared 'em amongst their friends or their family or whatever the case was. So they had some, uh, but they didn't have, they didn't build the technology to support it. They didn't look to scale it into something. And so we were kind of one of the first in that space to scale, to share asset business. So we started with one location here in Austin, uh, opened up one in Houston. And then we, uh, three, three to four years later, we had 35 locations. And that business

Matt Haney 11:19

tell the business model. 'cause I think it's really fascinating. Um, and then I, my head explodes with all the things that have to happen, but share, share the business model.

George Bonelli 11:27

Sure. Yeah. So, sale time is simply a shared asset. We, we, we coined the term fractional failing because people would tend to immediately, default to. Timeshare. and it's not timeshare and 'cause timeshare has got a bad connotation. So fractional sailing and, um, so it's fractional jet. So we were actually, I think really early days like net jets might have been starting as well, right? So that when they, they started, they were using the term fractional. So we, we liked fractional. So the model is simply, somebody. Wants a boat, we would, we would put the boat into our program. We would, they would buy it. So a person buys a boat, owns it, that's an owner member, they put it into our program, we establish an agreement with them, we fill it with members, and then we pay them each month for the, use of their boat. and then we do it again. Our base locations in some, in some instances have up to 10, 15, 20 boats. Uh, each boat has anywhere from eight to 10 members on it, and then the members go online, they book their time, and they go down and use the boat, and they get to pay for the access. The owner gets the benefit of having most of the cost covered. You know, you're not gonna make money. It's a boat. They lose value. But you can, in this type of program, you can get a lot of the costs covered for you. And what we made sure was the boats that go into our program, we have relationship with the manufacturer. The boats are outfitted to the, the top tier that Yeah. They, they got all the things that, that our people want. And, uh, yeah.

Matt Haney 13:00

Man, it's fascinating 'cause you have, so in that scenario, so many masters, so many mouths, so many opinions. I just, you know, I'm running the math in my head. How many humans you had to deal with on a and as a early startup and you know, you a bunch of boat owners, but a bunch of affluent well, to do humans with a lot of opinions and you are the franchisor star, or, or in fact, I don't know if this is true franchise, but you are the. You were the, the parent company against all these individuals. And I remember, you know, walking by your office, George and I shared an office 20 years ago and walked past his office. And George was the first guy I knew that had multiple screens in his office. He had 'em, and every time I walked by there was a hundred spreadsheets open and you're whiteboarding. And I'm just like, oh shit. All this stuff he's dealing with and the people and personalities

George Bonelli 13:48

Yeah, yeah. No, it's a lot there. Like you say, there, there are a lot of different, individuals with different demands, different needs all coming at you at the same time and you know, you just. I dunno if you get numb to it, but you get, used to it, you adjust and you understand how to really, how to quickly identify issues and how to really quickly prioritize issues and how to move the right things along and, cajole and, respond to people. And, you know, you get a really kinda a service oriented mindset and, you know, all those things become important, an entrepreneurial. World, you're always selling, you're always operating, and you're, you know, you're always trying to get something done, right. And so, yeah. So that, those, all those experiences and skills definitely help, underpin, I guess, or, educate the day to day, you know, today for sure. It's a, you know, you, you, continue to add, you continue to add to your toolbox every day.

Matt Haney 14:42

That's right. I always, um, you know, my wife and I and George and a lot of the people I know are entrepreneurs and they service delivery business, whatever your service might be, you know, we deliver a service and our clients deliver services. 'cause I tend to be attracted to service-based businesses. where there's a high level of intimacy with the customer and there's a certain set of expectations that just continuing to communicate like you are a service provider, is obviously a great thing. Unfortunately, it puts us in a, a little bit of a position when we're dealing with people that don't value delivering service the way that we do. I mean, when I go to another company or go to an individual and they're a service provider of some sort, and they're a complete clown, I'm like. How are you successful? You're, you're, you are successful in spite of the fact that you're trying to not be helpful. Um, and I find myself being a little bit critical or judgmental of those business owners that, are in service provider spaces, but don't really give a shit about providing a service. Anyway, a bit of a

George Bonelli 15:40

Yeah. No, I mean, I, I, I, I feel you, I, uh, I think the, the, the thought there is is that clearly that instance. Making it clear that their business has gotten to where it is, because of the value of the service. But at some point, at some point, the quality of the service is going to become a differentiator and is what's going to be the juice to keep the business going. And if they don't pay attention to that, then they're gonna have a much different conversation in whatever, six months, a year, 18 months. Right? And so helping them understand the importance of that is, uh. I think part of that role, especially from a fractional perspective.

matt-haney_2_02-06-2025_192447 16:19

You are listening to the Scalability Code. I'm your host, Matt Haney, founder of Sinclair Ventures, and we help visionary entrepreneurs like you get out of the shit show and focus on growing your business. We offer fractional COO and leadership coaching services that free up that brain of yours to focus on what's next. Learn more about us at SinclairVentures. com. Now back to it.

Matt Haney 16:40

Well, okay, let's catch up a little bit 'cause I don't, I don't wanna get too far down the rabbit hole. So, so sale time. Fast forward to give, you know, I don't, um, that was 20 years. I don't wanna skip 20 years of history, but, um, you know, what kind of got you to the fractional space that you're in today? I know you've done some work on offshoring and nearshoring and, um, which I, I, I think you could talk a little bit about and then also get it to sort of how you ended up where you are today.

George Bonelli 17:04

Yeah. Yeah. So, so really it comes to like, I spent the last 10 years or so in that, uh, software services selling and delivery space. Learned a lot there. And, like you say, got involved with latam nearshore. 'cause I worked with some companies outta Mexico City. have some partnerships that I've built, throughout all of latam and been, building that curated kind of portfolio for a while. but what that did is that gave me an opportunity to focus on this whole separate business, which gave me a, a lot more control of my own time, which allows for that fractional capability, right? So, um, I've not been one to have a. W2 job in a long time. And so, yeah, absolutely. And, uh, so, you know, and, and then it became that there was opportunities, right? So as I'm looking for opportunities or looking for work that is, short term or three months, six months, nine months, whatever the case is, and being able to bring, you know, at that, at this point in the last, you know, I've got this 30 years worth of corporate. Entrepreneurial and consulting experience. There's a lot there that I can bring to the conversation. And so, yeah, just looking for and having opportunity to talk to people about needs. you know, and of course fractional iss, something that's been heating up over the last two years quite a bit. Right.

Matt Haney 18:22

Yeah, no, absolutely. I always tell folks that, you know, I, I, I sat down with, um, the founder. Of, uh, virtual CFO, Ellen here in Austin, they arguably were one of the first people to popularize the fractional space. So I think everyone in my experience says, oh, I know what a fractional CFO is. I've heard about it. Well, we've been hearing about it for 30 years or more, so. People understand, but I think when, when I start talking about what it means to be a fractional operator or in fractional ops or the differences between fractional versus full-time, people immediately say, well, well, I didn't know you could do that as a, as a COO. There's this misconception or kind of, maybe not misconception, but like people just don't resonate with fractional COO as a thing. But to your point, over the last few years, and really for me, PA post COVID, I've, uh, that blew up all operating systems as we knew it. Creating an opportunity for me, for George and others to jump in as a fractional COO and help these early stage entrepreneurs that are growing a business. And now more and more people are open to the fact that you can be a hybrid or remote, uh, person and still provide that fractional expertise that people have frankly been doing for decades. Um, but it's become more popularized, uh, recently.

George Bonelli 19:34

Yeah. No, I, I actually, you know, you said you were talking with Ellie and, uh, I don't know, do you know Kurt Coburn? I think you do.

Matt Haney 19:41

I don't know if I know Kurt.

George Bonelli 19:42

So I think Jason does. They, they were connected in the, the um,

Matt Haney 19:46

Yeah.

George Bonelli 19:46

long, uh, the, the UL Ultra Endurance, uh, running World. Uh, he started Chief Outsiders, which was the first issuance or first, uh, awareness of the, the fractional CMO,

Matt Haney 19:59

yes, the marketing space. I know who they are. Yeah. I didn't

George Bonelli 20:01

Yeah. Yeah. And so, uh, so yeah, so I kind of caught up with him and he's kind, do some, doing something to support fractionals in helping them, uh, improve the way they, they approach their engagements with, with clients.

Matt Haney 20:15

that's awesome.

George Bonelli 20:16

interesting. Yeah. He might be an interesting, I think, uh, an interesting, uh, person for you to speak to in this podcast as well,

Matt Haney 20:22

Kurt. You're gonna make C-O-B-U-R-N.

George Bonelli 20:26

uh, C-O-B-U-R-N-C-I-R, or I'm sorry, KIRK

Matt Haney 20:30

Kirk. Kirk Coburn George is gonna make an intro. let's talk about managing humans. That's what you and I have done the better part of our career, uh, in one capacity or another. Um, I think you have the, the experience for Motorola days dealing with a lot of different people and personality types. I think one of the things that a lot of our clients at Sinclair Ventures struggle with is managing people. It continues to be that thing that comes up, particularly communications. I always say when someone tells me, oh, my communications are crystal clear. I'm like, you're full of shit. They're never crystal clear. Give me some, uh, challenges you've come across some recently or with clients or particular issues where. Um, you've struggled with, you know, di you know, disseminating communication or keeping things on track. Maybe something in the latam world where there's a language barrier or something that, you know, gives people a little bit of, you know, window into how you deal with people and things you've struggled with, or how you overcome a certain situation with managing people.

George Bonelli 21:35

Yeah, it's, it really, I think, boils down to, it's a really, it's a change management kind of scenario, right? Where you're, you're trying to make some type of change in your organization and they're used to doing things a certain way. This group or team, however big or small, uh, doesn't matter. You're still working with people trying to get them to change behaviors. Right. And, it really, it, it's, and this is a people thing, right? So you, you know, it's about intimacy, it's about conversation. It's about, sitting down with folks. It's about working with, You know, what, what people want to do and where they want to engage, right? So, you know, in the EOS world, there's the right person, right seat, right? So that's a, that, that starts with a conversation, right? So where, where does this, where does this person, best fit in the organization? Where are they gonna bring the most value? and so it's a matter of spending the time there. so like you say, there's an example of a, a current client scenario where they have an organization that is very much, They've got a culture and they like that culture. They want to keep that culture and that culture, help them get to where they are today. It's not gonna be good to help them get to where they need to go tomorrow. So something has to change. Now the question is, and this, is a conversation with the senior leadership. Where do they plan? How do they plan to get to, are they gonna split the organization, hire more for, because there's a innovation section and there's a production section. Those are two different worlds. To innovate is exciting, to produce is boring. so to take the innovators. Yeah, absolutely. You take the innovators and ask them to produce, they're gonna get bored and they're gonna not like it. so the question is, is how do we get there? some folks might be interested in moving towards the production, some, and, you know, either way. But you have to really sit down and understand what the organization needs, who wants to move into this world, and be very, very, What's the word I'm looking for? Um, yeah, intentional about who is gonna be part of this organization. and then, you know, some folks are gonna roll. They're gonna, they're gonna head out.

Matt Haney 23:37

Yeah. Now I had this very, very, very, same conversation with, uh, an Austin based, um, a company this week who's a, in a very successful clothing brand, early stage clothing brand, founded by two young entrepreneurs who have literally gone gangbusters with the business. But they'll tell you the, he told me, he said, well, you know. I don't really wanna disrupt the culture. 'cause we've had amazing growth year over year. Meanwhile there's 24 people showing up to their leadership meeting every week. And I'm just like, yeah, how do you manage 24 people? but it's like, to your point, it, in order to add a little bit of structure to continue the growth, they don't want to disrupt the culture. And I said, just because you're adding structure doesn't mean you're disrupting a culture. You, you can do that in a way. That, that captures and keeps the ethos of the business. You don't have to go in and say, here's some bullshit corporate structure that you all of a sudden have to follow. Go back to your cube and on the way out, hit the punch clock. That, that's not it. it's more just being intentional around how we're going to meet, how we're gonna show up, what the accountability and organization chart looks like. Because in the example I just said, there's 24 people, I said, well, who's the boss? Well, I, I was like, I get it, I get it.

George Bonelli 24:49

yeah,

Matt Haney 24:50

Red flag. Um, but I'm, it's, it's a challenge.

George Bonelli 24:55

Yeah. Um, when every one of those situations always has me think of this little thing of, um, I can't remember where I, where I heard this from, but there's no, there are no statues to committees,

Matt Haney 25:04

Oh yeah. explain that.

George Bonelli 25:07

so if everyone's doing it, no one's doing it. Somebody has to lead. So somebody has to stand up and take accountability.

Matt Haney 25:15

Yeah. Mutual accountability means no accountability.

George Bonelli 25:18

right. You know, if you and I are doing something Yeah. If, yeah, if it's you and I, it's not, it's neither of us. So it has to be someone's responsible for it, someone's accountable for it. Uh, and those are two different things, right? RACI, there's a, a matrix that this is in the aerospace world. There's responsibility, there's accountability, there's a contributor, and there's an informed. Right. And so across the organization, so if you have a particular area of work or responsibility, somebody's accountable for it. That could be the senior leader. They, they're the one that meet needs to make sure that it happens. Somebody's responsible for it, they're doing it, they're getting it done, they're doing the things. Um, others are helping them. So they're contributing. And then others, maybe the C-suite just need to be informed, right? But that clear, that clearly lays out in a really black and white way. who has what role. So when you're talking about it in a standup or a weekly review or a project summary, you know who to look at, you know, what's going on with this particular thing. And so, you know, it, it removes the ability for people to hide in the organization when it comes to, you know, comes, to getting important things done.

Matt Haney 26:25

I'd like to talk a little bit about delegation. I had a recent post on LinkedIn that for me, got a lot of, uh, attention. and it was around fears, around delegation. and, I was not shocked. I, I, I felt like it was a good post 'cause they're all good, George. But, um, the reason I, I got more traction around it. So, um, I know you've worked through many layers of people both below you and above you, and would love to just, just talk for a couple minutes around delegation and some of the. Challenges you've seen and, and examples or thoughts or, or, or context around how you've helped, be good at delegating and get others at it be being good at delegating themselves.

George Bonelli 27:04

yeah, so the thing that I think, um. immediately comes to mind when you start talking about that is this idea of, managing and micromanaging, right? Micromanaging bad, obviously delegating good. Also, delegating is not just a matter of, Hey, I'm gonna start delegating. Delegating really kind of, I think backs up to organizationally. You have to have the ability to hire good people to effectively delegate. Right now there's the, I mean, there used, not used to be, but there's the, you know, the A tier higher, the B tier higher, right? You want all A players, right? You wanna be able to talk to somebody about something. So if this, if this person's on your team and you're gonna go to them with this thing that needs to be done, you wanna be able to go to 'em, you wanna talk about it, you wanna understand it, you wanna be clear, ask questions, and then walk away. If you have to be following up with that thing today, tomorrow, you know. Any, any more than I know this is gonna get done because I gave it to whoever and I trust them. 'cause they have good judgment. They have the ability to make decisions. You know, that to me is what delegating is. Anything less than that is, it's just not delegating. You're, you're asking someone that's, you're asking someone to do something that you're not confident, nor do you have the trust in to get it done. And now you're, now you're real. Literally putting yourself into, I need to micromanage that. Right. So you're either micromanaging it or you're delegating is is my point of view.

Matt Haney 28:27

No, I get it. And, and I do hear all the time people saying to me, well, I don't trust that person. That's why I can't delegate to them. I said, well, we have a much bigger issue. Like if you genuinely don't trust the person that's sitting in that seat, to Georgia's point, they're not an A player or a B player. They don't need to be in that seat. And, and I will say after working with folks for a while and getting to know the person that is in question, I'll have to go back to the entrepreneur and continue to reiterate, hey. That's a you issue because I've worked with this person, I've seen their ups and their downs, and I find them to be incredibly competent and incredibly trustworthy, and they're not just bullshitting either. I've worked with them like I know, and I've asked them to Del, I've delegated to them and they've delivered. It's more of an issue of just letting go of the vine. Which I'm not here to preach. letting go of the vine is complicated, especially when you're dealing with a founder that started their own company and their livelihoods established and their brand and all their things. but to your point earlier, if you've got the right people in the right seat, delegating shouldn't be as hard as we make it now. We all have to continue to practice what that looks like and be willing to receive feedback from people around us that are saying, Hey. You're choosing to do this because it's been done that way for years. that's not growth. You're not gonna get to the next level if you're continuing to sign, physically sign with your hand and ink the paycheck's every two weeks. Like, that's not, we're not gonna get there. You know, people don't like checks mailed anymore.

George Bonelli 29:48

Yeah, yeah, No, I get it. That's

Matt Haney 29:50

So, Uh, George Benelli, great to have you, man. Always fun to, um, share conversations with you and, and get some wisdom from you. And I trust you. I, I call you a colleague and a friend. And it's been great to get to work with you over the last few years and look forward to having you back on the scalability code to talk about something else. But in the meantime, thanks for your time and I appreciate your, uh, your friendship and support.

George Bonelli 30:14

Likewise, Matt, I appreciate you the opportunity to come be part of the conversation and uh, yeah. Uh, I do enjoy. Getting updates for new and recently released editions of this particular podcast. And I won't say I watch all of them, but

Matt Haney 30:30

come into a screen near you, George. Come into a screen near you.

George Bonelli 30:34

yeah, I do enjoy, I do enjoy your content, so thanks man. Take care.

30:37

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