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From Soccer Shots to EOS: Lessons From Scaling a Franchise Business | Amanda Barkey

• John Tyreman

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Scaling a franchise business forces leaders to confront reality—fast.

In this episode of The Scalability Code, host Matt Haney is joined by Amanda Barkey, EOS Implementer and longtime owner of multiple Soccer Shots franchises, to explore what franchising teaches you about leadership, accountability, and operational discipline.

Amanda reflects on nearly two decades of entrepreneurship, from buying into Soccer Shots at an early stage to scaling multi-location operations across Southern California and Hawaii. She shares how implementing EOS helped bring clarity to people management, accountability, and decision-making—and why tools like the Scorecard and Accountability Chart are essential in franchise environments.

You’ll hear practical insights on:

  • Why accountability can’t be forced—and how strong leadership creates it
  • The role of EOS in scaling franchise operations without losing culture
  • Common leadership mistakes founders make as they grow
  • How tracking the right weekly numbers creates clarity instead of fear
  • What franchising reveals about systems, people, and management gaps

This episode is a must-listen for franchise owners, operators, and leaders looking to move from reactive management to a business that runs with clarity and consistency.

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Get OUT of the Sh*t Show 

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Amanda Barkey

And I always tell my clients like, the scorecard is a flexible tool, right? You don't just set it and forget it. If your scorecard's not working for you, change it. Change the measurable, change the owner. Change the goal, right? It shouldn't just be this like easy pass,

Welcome to The Scalability Code, the podcast that helps you get out of the sh*t show and start growing your business. And now for your host, Matt Haney.

Matt Haney

Good afternoon folks. We're joined today on the scalability code by, um, with Amanda Barky. Amanda is joining us from the Aloha State, via Anaheim, California now in Honolulu. Amanda, thanks for joining us.

Amanda Barkey

Thanks so much for having me, Matt. Aloha.

Matt Haney

Awesome. Well, I always start every episode the same way we go back, uh, to where your entrepreneurial journey started, but I always feel like I'm rushed to, to give my intro. And I'm Matt Haney. I'm a COO. I'm from Austin. Da da. That's it. So today I want to take some time to not rush and talk a little bit about how your entrepreneurial journey started, where you are today. What businesses you've been involved in, how you ended up in EOS, and a little bit about your implementer journey as well. So, um, I don't know if any stories come to mind or anything, uh, resonates with where your entrepreneurial journey started, but I'd love to hear about it.

Amanda Barkey

Yeah, sure. I'll start at the very beginning. So, I did not come from an entrepreneurial family. My grandparents are all political refugees. My parents are immigrants. I was bit by the entrepreneurial bug when I met and married my husband, who I swear, came out of the womb with a business plan. I was born and raised in Canada, so that's where we met. Packed everything in the back of our Honda Civic. We had a six month old baby hightailed it down to the states. He's a dual citizen, so. Um, we immigrated down here and we started our business. So we own a business called Soccer Shots. It's a children's soccer program for two to eight year olds. I bought that business when I was 26 years old. So I've been an entrepreneur for over 20 years. And, um, you know, we, when we first started our business, um, actually not over 20 years now, I'm aging myself. I've been an entrepreneur for almost 20 years, almost 20 years.

Matt Haney

That's awesome.

Amanda Barkey

But yeah, when we started our business, we didn't know what we didn't know. You know, we were learning from our mistakes, we were growing by our reputation. We thought we were killing it with 63 kids enrolled in our program. fast forward, we serve over 10,000 families between Southern California and Hawaii. So, yeah, we, uh, we were growing and we were learning and, um, we knew that there was a better and easier way to run a business. We just couldn't quite put our finger on it. And that's when we read the book Traction. That was our light bulb moment. It was a huge aha for us. So we implemented the tools and disciplines in our business. Um, and, you know, I was telling you earlier, we, I'm, I'm a repentant, reformed self implementer, so I did

Matt Haney

tell me about that. What does that mean? I know what it means, but tell people what that

Amanda Barkey

Well, so, you know, you can use EOS tools, you can read the book. Everything's in the book. Nothing's hidden. Right. It's a, it's a holistic operating system for your business. And you can use all the tools and disciplines by the book 20 bucks and, um, bing, bang, boom, there, you fixed Your business

Matt Haney

it's that easy, right? You just buy the book and start reading.

Amanda Barkey

Yeah. It's simple, but it's not easy. And I think people realize that once they start getting into it, you know, and, um, you just, there you can, you, you just simply can't produce a third party perspective in your own business. And so that's where coaches come in. I'm an EOS implementer now, so I'm a teacher, facilitator and coach of the EOS tools and, um, nine outta 10 businesses using EOS are self implementing. That means that they're reading the book, they're using the resources that are out there, and they're doing it on their own. Uh, but there are people out there like myself who are trained and capable and, uh. Frankly obsessed with this work and that's what we do full time. It's my life's most fulfilling and rewarding work, and that's the pleasure that I have now, is, guiding other entrepreneurs to implement this system in their business to help them run a better business and live a better life.

Matt Haney

That's awesome. That's so, so great. I want to go back to the soccer shots days 'cause I think that, um, helps, form who you are today. And I'm sure there's a million stories of, of wins and losses, little reference to a game there. But I'd love to know, uh, what, you know, go back to what, where it started. Like how did you decide soccer shots was the, was the thing and then. Take us through a little bit of the journey to how you scaled it up to the, the businesses that you ended up having or still have, I

Amanda Barkey

Yeah. You know, well it actually, so soccer shots started with two guys, Jason and Jeremy. They were buddies who played for the Charlotte Eagles. They played semi-professional soccer and they weren't making enough money doing that. And so they started running little kids' soccer classes for preschool. And they started in Charlotte, North Carolina and Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. And things started really picking up and it became a thing. And so they thought, Hey, let's try to franchise this thing. And so they connected with this guy named Seth. and so that was one of, hi their other buddies from the Charlotte Eagles, and they were like, Hey, would you start this thing in Miami? Would you try this out there? And, um, this was around the same time as my husband and I, we were, kind of facing a fork in the road. We were newly married. Uh, we were living in Canada. He was working up on the oil field and, um, he was having a health crisis. So he found out that he has Ray's disease, which is a circulatory disease. Uh, he didn't know that he had this disease. It's induced by cold weather and stress, which he didn't experience either of. He's an expat kid. He grew up in the jungle in Peru. So that's a whole other story. You need to have him on your podcast to have that conversation. But

Matt Haney

But you landed on, you landed on soccer shots, and is that early? Were you early in the soccer shots franchise group.

Amanda Barkey

yeah, we connected with Seth. So Seth was my husband's childhood friend, and this was, um, Jason and Jeremy's buddy from the Charlotte Eagles. And so, um, you know, he was the third. Guy to ever do this. And he partnered up with us. And so we launched soccer shots Miami, which was the third, ever soccer shots. And it was really the first, uh, like it was the Guinea pig franchise. and then we, uh, also, so we, we partnered him with him on that one, and then we bought. Um, soccer shots, franchises in Southern California, in Orange County, and I think they were in like the teens at that time. There were maybe they were under 20 franchises. And so we really, we bought into this like we're old doggies in the system. We bought in really early on. Like when you buy soccer shots now Yeah. You buy something entirely different. We, we like had a handshake deal and they gave us kind of like an operating manual that they printed off at Kinko's and they were like, go do your

Matt Haney

How many franchisees are there today? Do you know? Do you have any like rel

Amanda Barkey

Uh, I have no idea, but a, a roughly over 200 individual franchises across the US and Canada. Yeah,

Matt Haney

That's amazing and you guys were so early into that. that's really, really cool that you are early adopters to something. I know soccer shots, my kids, I live in Austin, Texas and all of my kids that I can remember, I only have three, uh, have been through soccer shots and I have very fond memories of the logo and spending time on the field and watching children run like this because, you know, that's just what kids ages two to eight do.

Amanda Barkey

soccer shots is a really great community. It's a, um, it's been an incredible thing to be a part of for the last 20 years. My buddy Eddie Russ, he owned soccer shots

Matt Haney

I know Eddie. Yeah.

Amanda Barkey

Yeah. that's the guy. Um, he recently sold those, uh, franchises, so he's actually an EOS implementer like myself as

Matt Haney

He sure is. Eddie's in our community and a great, great, great resource. Um, well, I want to go back to like those early days of managing people as a young person because when you guys, undertook this, this adventure, you had to learn real fast how to manage people. Um, and in our current day-to-day jobs, we do that for a living. But I'd love to go back. Is there, there any, you know, stories that stick out or moments of, of panic as you're scaling your business where, you know, managing people either was incredibly successful, or incredibly challenging?

Amanda Barkey

as far as managing people, my husband and I are both visionaries and we're really, really bad at it. So, so I have a lot of great stories of us just falling on our face. I really wish that we would've had this book, how to Be a Great Boss. Um, there are a lot of really great leadership and management practices in this book that we could have used back in the day. But, um, we were just, it was a lot of trial and error and, you know, one thing that I'm really proud of us and just like the culture that we instilled in our business, like really, you know, we have a really special business and we've had a really special opportunity to come alongside young people because our soccer shots coaches, our employees are typically 18 to 24-year-old. And so we're leading and managing young people. Um, and so that comes with a whole set of challenges, right?

Matt Haney

It sure does.

Amanda Barkey

trying to even get them to reply to texts is like a whole thing. But, um. But it's been a really special thing to do because we've been able, you know, and, and maybe this isn't typical for a lot of entrepreneurial businesses, I don't know, maybe it is, but we kind of live in the gray area. I mean, we've had kids show up at our door in the middle of the night and need a couch to sleep on, or, you know, or they've had issues like, you know, at home or with friends and we've counseled them and you know, we've helped people through really hard times. And and we've been able to walk alongside people and see them grow up. So one thing that we really pride ourselves in soccer shots, orange County and Oahu, is the culture that we've built. And typically in our industry, well, in any industry these days, people typically stay at a job for 31 months, which is, you know, you're not, you're not working at the steel mill that your dad worked at and your

Matt Haney

For For 20 years and retiring. Yeah. That doesn't exist anymore.

Amanda Barkey

Yeah. But in, so specifically in our industry, turnover, retention is a huge issue. It always has been. It always will be. But, uh, in our business at soccer shots, orange County, over the past handful of years, we've celebrated, uh, five or six people have been with us for over 10 years.

Matt Haney

That's amazing.

Amanda Barkey

yeah, it's been incredible. And so to see these kids start as coaches, you know, like. and then build their way up and get onto the leadership team and, uh, really hone their skills and get married and have families and like really walk alongside them through that really pivotal time in life. That's been a really special thing for my husband and I to be a part

Matt Haney

That's so cool. I love watching young people grow into budding business owners and entrepreneurs and leaders. It's awesome. you and your husband both are the visionaries and you're, you're both identify as visionaries, I should say. Tell me about your, your operating. You know, structure or set up at sucker shots, like you must have a key staff or a leadership team that you've built over the years. Tell us about that and, and if you can remember how it evolved and what it started as, and some of the trials along the way of building that, that team to manage, you know, all of your franchisees or all your loca locations.

Amanda Barkey

Yeah. So I love how you said that we do both identify as visionary. I have never been the visionary of our soccer shots, businesses. I've actually never had a seat on the accountability chart. So I've done a lot of things, you know, I've, I've worn a lot of hats over the years. Um, and my husband would affectionately say like, I've been his, like, right hand man, right? Like, um, he runs everything by me and we built this business together. Um, but in the first five years of, uh, starting up our business, I had four kids in five years.

Matt Haney

Oh my

Amanda Barkey

to make things a little easier Right. Like

Matt Haney

Spice it up.

Amanda Barkey

Right. Spice it up. Exactly. So, um, yeah, so I was busy doing that. I was a baby making factory for a few years and then, you know, I did the social media marketing, I planned the Christmas parties, I edited his emails. I, you know, like we did all those things, kind of like, kind of willy-nilly. But he's always been the visionary of our soccer shots businesses. and then, uh, after we read Traction about a decade ago, we hired, you know, a president second in command. Um, and she became our integrator. She was the full-time integrator of our soccer shots business. And we formed an actual leadership team around that time.

Matt Haney

that's great.

Amanda Barkey

yeah. Yeah. So if we have one leadership team that runs, and we used to own the Miami soccer shots as well, so we had one leadership team that ran all of our territories. So currently we have one leadership team that runs our Orange County Territories and Oahu, Hawaii territories.

Matt Haney

That's fun. What a great, great, great business. And how long have you, when, when did you have your first franchise location? How many years? What year are you on now?

Amanda Barkey

so that was 2008. So I'm, yeah, I'm not a mathematician, but

Matt Haney

Uh, 2028. 2028 would be eight. Eight, uh, 20 years. So was, yeah. That's crazy. well, wonderful. Um, okay. Let's switch gears a little bit and talk about your EOS practice and, and sort of growing your implementer business. What, when did you go through bootcamp and what kind of, what, what possessed you to take that leap? Obviously you're a believer, but what made you go through, through that piece?

Amanda Barkey

Yeah. So yeah, I would, you know, uh, soccer shots is a franchise, and so we have this community of, uh, people who use EOS. There are, um, about 200 owners, and I would say about two thirds of the owners use EOS. In some way, shape or form. Um, my husband and I, I would say we're, you know, early adopters of EOS. We've been doing this for 10 years using this in our business. And, um, I would say we're the most proficient EOS users or we were maybe not anymore, but, um, we've coached a lot of soccer shots owners throughout the years on the EOS tools. And so I have been teaching, facilitating, and coaching for years and years, um, but also raising a handful of kids, right? And, um, when they became school aged, I remember in 2022 we had, our annual and looking back, now that I'm a an, I do this professionally and I'm a certified ES implementer, I'm like, oh my gosh, that was such a joke of an annual. But we did this like one day annual and um, and our integrator ran it. Uh, the next day we went out for brunch and we were debriefing. It was myself, my husband, and our integrator. So owner, visionary, and integrator. And they kind of had like a, um, an intervention with me because the kids were all going to school full time and we had just had our annual, I didn't take any rocks. I wasn't on the accountability chart. And they're like, Hey, yo, what are you doing? Like, what's going on with you now? Uh, what's your next thing? And, um. And my integrator, Nancy, she went fractional during COVID because as you can imagine, when soccer shots or when COVID happened, soccer shots went away. Right? When the schools shut down, we run primarily out of preschools, daycares, childcare centers. Um, so in COVID, we were in California, so you know, wherever you were in the country, you experienced it. COVID at varying degrees, right? Um, so we were pretty restricted and in the two quarters following the lockdowns of 2020, um, we did 2% of our gross revenue, revenue of the previous year, same quarter. So we shrunk by 98%. And so, yeah, it was really crazy. Um, and you know, during that time we were coming up with plan B-C-D-E-F for all three of us. And, um, Nancy went fractional. We helped her to create a fractional integrator business. And so she started fractionally integrating for other soccer shots owners and then also for some other businesses in other industries. And her business actually at this point in time, so this was in January of 2022, almost two years later, um, it was really taking off. And so she was considering maybe starting a fractional integrator firm and like bringing other people into it. And she was like, you know, you know this stuff like the back of your hand, you'd be great at this. Like, why don't you do what I do? And I thought about it for a minute and I, I saw her sit at my dining room table and run level 10 after level 10 and st page meetings with all these different businesses. And I was like, you know, not my circus, not my monkeys. I don't wanna do that. Like I already have a handful of kids and this like zany entrepreneurial husband. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, No, I'm good. and then my husband suggested becoming an implementer and he's like, why don't you do that? And I was like, great, what's that? What's an implementer?

Matt Haney

do they do?

Amanda Barkey

Right? Because we are repentant reform self implementers, right? I thought up until 2022, I honestly thought like, you read traction and you do traction. Um, and, uh, I didn't know that there was a best and right way of doing this. And so, um, I was like, I, you know, I'm all in. I'm married to a 10 quick start. So I've gotten really good at just being like, okay, let's do it. Let's just say yes. Um, that's not naturally how I am. I'm a 6 7, 3 4, so I don't typically just jump in with both feet, but, um, but I've learned how to do that. So I just said yes. And we hopped on a webinar the next day and I signed the FDD the next day after that. And then 17 days later I was at bootcamp. So, yeah. So it was very fast and furious. I was like a total fish outta water. Yeah. But it was the best decision I've ever made. I'm so thankful, you know, people. Ask me all the time, like, about skills be being an intro entrepreneur and being a leader, and like, what are some skills that, that you would recommend like that people really hone in? And one of them that I would say has served me the best is just saying yes. Like, trust your gut and just go for it. because whenever I've done that, things have worked themselves out and uh, that was the best decision I ever made. So I jumped in with both feet, and that was in 2022.

Matt Haney

That's amazing. Just say yes. That's so fascinating as the integrator in the room. Not the visionary. I sometimes say, don't just say yes, don't say yes, don't do that.

Amanda Barkey

Well, we need people like you.

Matt Haney

Absolutely. And we need people like you. Otherwise we would be, uh, you know, we, we would be running willy-nilly or stuck in the mud, which I think that's a, that's a true testament to that visionary integrator relationship. And, and I find myself, every single day engaging with clients and having those conversations around. Okay, we can say yes, but if we say yes, that means we have to say no to something else. So let's, flesh it out. Let's make sure it's the right decision for the business at the time and the people, and then we can say yes. But, um, that's what makes the, you know, the VI duo work. And you know, that's what makes the other book over your other shoulder rocket fuel, uh, so impactful is that when you have. A relationship with the visionary that's out of respect and trust and appreciation and humility. You know, you really can get a lot of stuff done. So I love that your motto would be, and advice is to just say yes, because I think that's, that's true. You, we can over rotate and over, you know, saturate and stick on things to a point where we don't get anything done. So, uh, I love that you say that.

matt-haney_2_02-06-2025_192447

You are listening to the Scalability Code. I'm your host, Matt Haney, founder of Sinclair Ventures, and we help visionary entrepreneurs like you get out of the shit show and focus on growing your business. We offer fractional COO and leadership coaching services that free up that brain of yours to focus on what's next. Learn more about us at SinclairVentures. com. Now back to it.

Amanda Barkey

Yeah, I think a lot of times we wait until we feel like it or we like, we try to figure out like how we feel about it. And um, for me, I just, I know whether it has to do with my business or with fitness or with whatever it is, like, if I just take action, then the feelings usually follow, right? Like, and so for me, like my husband is very much wired and he's my business partner to, to jump outta the plane and build the parachute on the way down. And I'm not naturally wired. We're all genetically encoded differently, right? And, and we need all of the different genetic encodings, right? Like in the room and all of those voices to sort of like push us in the right direction. but I found that when I, when I take action first and then figure out my feelings around it. Or feel, um, you know, feel the feelings of being motivated or, um, or energized by it. Like after I have taken the action, it just serves me so much better than it's kind of like figuring it out and stewing in those feelings, but we definitely need people like you. I'm so thankful. I have a practice manager, Ellie, um, bless her soul. She's my integrator and she, she deals with me week in and week out and, you know, most visionaries have a DHD and I always call integrators like visionary Ritalin. and that's what she is for me. So I'm sure that's what you are for your clients.

Matt Haney

I've never heard that. Visionary Ritalin. That's exactly right. Um, that's so cool. I love, I love I too have a practice manager, Ashley. Who's been with me for several years, she's fantastic. So shout out to Ashley, uh, for keeping me in, in on the straight and narrow. But it's great to have a partner in crime and someone to help share some of the load. Um, and I love a lot of the, um, uh, e ossis that I work with, also have practice managers. It's been fun over the years to get to know them and their relationship with their implementer and how, how much they become part of the business. So, um, that's cool. I love you. I love that you're hearing that shout out to her. 'cause they do, they do keep us. Where does she live?

Amanda Barkey

She's in San Diego, so she's technically a virtual assistant,

Matt Haney

Yeah, that's Ashley. Yeah. I live in Austin. Ashley's in Ohio. So we, we see each other on camera all the time, but I don't even know if we've ever met in person after

Amanda Barkey

Oh really? Ellie and I actually, we make it a point to meet in person. We see each other usually at maybe once or twice a year. Um, you know, if we meet up at the EOS conference or uh, whatnot, but we make it a point to do an in-person annual every year. And, uh, that's been really great for us. Yeah. Yeah. Ours is coming up next month, so I'm really excited, um, to do that with her. Yeah. Well, Matt, I want you to tell me what is it like working, because, you know, you, you sort of alluded to you working with your clients and what that is, what that feels like, right? Like being that ideas filter. And so I want you to share more with me about what it's like working with your clients as a fractional, COO or fractional integrator.

Matt Haney

That's a great question. Thank you. and it's always an interesting topic to bring up because most visionaries don't have experience working with fractional folks. You have to think the majority of the business, small businesses in the world are founder led, mult, you know, several handful of employees, but not big established businesses. Most visionaries don't. And early stage entrepreneurs don't come from this massive corporate background. They started in a service or craft, and they grew it from point A to point B, and then all of a sudden they have this business and they go, what do I do with this business? I don't know. So, um, a lot of EOIs implementers introduce fractional integrators as a, as a stop gap. Between getting to the long-term solution for what they need as an operator. so our firm of, of fractional integrators and COOs, uh, intentionally fill that gap. We like to work with clients that have, you know, five to 50 million in revenue. have an a, an established leadership team of some sort. Um, maybe they don't have someone sitting in that integrator seat, but they have a few people on the leadership team that they're working with. That's important because. Um, there's people that are more strategic and coaches, and there's some people that are more tactical and players. So knowing what you need based on your business is a huge, uh, thing to look for. So, um, working with a visionary or early stage entrepreneur is not for the fan of heart. Um, we love it. We get to do it often, and we've seen it, I think over the last eight years we've had. About 16 different engagements, 17 different engagements from, you know, contract services companies in electrical and manufacturing to a Palantir services development firm that, uh, just sold to Accenture. So it's nice to work with a myriad of businesses, but there's one common theme that we see when working with clients, and that's a curious and, um, vulnerable and, and, um, humble leader. We want that curiosity and, and humility gives us a long way. So that's a little bit of a background into what it's like working with a fractional integrator. Um, one more thing I'll add on to that is when you start a relationship with somebody that's very genuine and open, I'm not coming to the visionary or the entrepreneur saying I'm going to be there forever. I'm saying I am a period of time for you that's going to give you direction and structure. While we're constantly looking for what the business needs. I'm then also going to find that person with you. I'm going to hire them, I'm going to onboard them, and I'm going to see through a transition to make sure they're the right fit. So we we're part coach, part COO, part therapist, you know, part filter. and it's a really special relationship we get to have with an early stage entrepreneur.

Amanda Barkey

That's so cool. Yeah. I love how you said that. They are curious, vulnerable, and humble. Uh, we work with the same types of people. I, whenever I am talking to a prospect, I tell them, look like you are trying to determine right fit with me just as much as I'm trying to determine right fit with you. And the types of people, the types of leaders that I work with are respectful, appreciative, they're open and honest. They're vulnerable with themselves and with the people around them, and they're more afraid of the status quo than they are of change. And so if that's you. Then we're going to work great together. Right. And so it sounds like we work with very similar types of people psychographically.

Matt Haney

Well, you and I have both been in situations where, um, the sales pitch was good, but the reality is that that person's different than what we bought. And that I'm, I'm, and probably someone could say that about me at some time in my career, but I do know that the times where I've had false starts and they've been there, it's, it's because, the relationship started on one thing and then we, the more I learn, the more I realize I'm not the right fit for them. it's not that they're not a good person or not a good business owner or not a good, I'm just not the right fit. And the quicker we can get to that realization, just like you're hiring someone for your leadership team or you're hiring an employee. We're not doing anyone favors by keeping them around if it's not the right fit.

Amanda Barkey

Right, right. I agree. Yeah. And you know, I love how you also said that, you know, you were talking about how. When you come in as a fractional integrator, you're sort of a bandaid of sorts, right? Like it's not a forever solve. and I tell people the same thing, like when I am coming in to work with my clients to teach them the EOS tools, my job isn't to dig myself deeper into their business. I'm not a consultant. It says it right there on my LinkedIn. Amanda Barky, not a consultant. I'm a teacher, facilitator, and coach. So I'm gonna come into the business and I'm going to teach you a simple set of proven tools. I'm gonna coach you to become better than you thought you could be. And I'm gonna help facilitate the wisdom in the room, right? 99% of the time, the wisdom's in the room, the answers are in the room. And so, typically that's about a two year engagement. my job isn't to dig myself deeper into the business. My job is to teach you the EOS tools and then get the heck outta your way and let you run your business. Um, so we do a similar type of engagement, right? and I'm curious because when I go, and talk to entrepreneurs, uh, and they're looking for EOS, they're looking for a system or solution or, you know, structure for their business, they've typically hit a point of frustration. So there are these five frustrations and they're things like profit or lack thereof. um, lack of, um. or hitting the ceiling, excuse me. Or, um, you know, they're, they're, nothing's working. They're trying everything and nothing's working. Lack of control. Um, that's the one I was trying to think of. So when you are, when you're working with people or you are engaging with people, what's that tipping point for you? Like where you see that you need someone like yourself to come in? is there a pain point or is there a tipping point that you feel like you've typically seen? Um, with entrepreneurs.

Matt Haney

Yeah. So when we step in as a, as a fractional integrator or fractional, COO, I like to refer to us as a, as an expert generalist. We, we are the person that knows those pillars of the business generally. And you could argue that we're, you know, we're an expert in, in more than just one or two categories, but you're bringing in someone that has a breadth or depth of experience that's deeper than just operating a business. It's, operating the finance and the HR and the people component and the, and the, you know, sales, et cetera. But there's a point in which we say, okay, you need more of a specialist. We've been a great expert generalist for you, but you need someone who has true subject matter expertise in the domain that your business is in. And that's really when we know that, um, we need to replace ourselves because, uh, there's no real incentive for me to stay in a client engagement longer than necessary. Really, the opportunity for us is to get in, add, structure and system, continue to hone on EOS, go through a couple quarterlies because that's generally what it takes, but then I look like a rock star. If I bring in someone who is an expert, who fits the culture, who RPRS is the seat who understands, has the capacity to do it, I look like a genius when I'm bringing that person in. And that's really what the business needs. So we do see a tipping point that says we need to find somebody because A, we as a fractional can't commit enough time, or B, you need someone who's got expertise. So it's really fun to replace yourself and to start a relationship with someone knowing that that's going to be the end result

Amanda Barkey

You're sort of a matchmaker of some

Matt Haney

There is a little bit of matchmaking. You're right. You're right.

Amanda Barkey

That's fun.

Matt Haney

it's also making sure you don't have a false start because we've already entered the business as a fractional. We've already met the leadership team. We're going through rotations, we're going through reps with all the, we don't want to bring in somebody that's a false start. They've already had us come. That's already been a change to the business. So entering in someone else who's not going to be a good fit, not good for anyone. So we do take our time re relying a lot on our recruiting partners, um, and then ensure we onboard them and make sure they, they're the right fit.

Amanda Barkey

Good. Yeah. Hire slow. Fire fast.

Matt Haney

That's exactly right. Well, I want to get us a couple more questions for you and then, um, one of the things you mentioned is that you love teaching LMA and that's something that comes up a lot in our business. Or as inter as as, uh, fractionals is that we have to encourage and coach leaders on how to LMA lead, manage, hold it accountable. Give me some of your thoughts around how you emphasize that in the session room.

Amanda Barkey

Yeah, well, I start talking about it from day one. The very first exercise that I work on with my clients is the accountability chart. Gino says, the root of all evil. It lives in the accountability chart, right? So we wanna get that dialed in first and foremost. And the very first role under anyone who has a direct report on the leadership team is LMA. So then my clients will ask me, well, what's that? It really encompasses anything that has to do with leading and managing people for accountability. And, and I always explain to them, you know, like, people ask me all the time, they say, Amanda, like, how do I make my people be accountable? How do I get them to become accountable? And the answer is, is you can't. Accountability is a byproduct of great leadership and great management. It's an equation, right? And so this is an, a phenomenal book. I live by this book and so many, uh, leaders who are in management, positions. Have never actually been trained to manage people. There's no like formal management training, so they're kind of just flying by the seat of their pants. And so there are some management practices, there are leadership practices in this book as well. There's five leadership practices that are really, um, great to use, but there are five management practices that are so crucial to managing people well for accountability. And so, um, I start talking about that from day one. And, um, yeah, I have an LMA workshop that I teach in the session room during our EOS session. Typically in a quarterly. I've also gone in and I've, um, taught LMA to a whole group of mid-managers in businesses. Um, and that's really fun to do because it's just, there are light bulbs going off all over the place and, you know, there it's just illuminating for them. And so, um, you know, it just makes the whole business thrive and so much healthier when your managers are managing well. Um, and they're managing for accountability, and so it's one of my favorite things to do.

Matt Haney

Oh, I love it. I love seeing your body language change and see how excited you get about it. I feel, I feel passionately about. LMA as well as well. And I think one of the things you said, um, is, is really impactful and, and triggered for me was that there's no real training around holding people accountable and managing. And a lot of times you as the um, EOSI implementer and me as the fraction integrator, we are the first people that have talked to them about. Holding someone accountable. They, they heard this name, this term, this lingo, these things, but they don't really know what it means or how to implement it or how to do it in a way that's not, you know, fearing and, and, and over overbearing and micromanaging. So I love that you guys dig into LMA and I I want to jump in on one of my favorite accountability tools, um, is the scorecard, uh, scorecard for all of our. Businesses is one of the, the tools that I really spend a lot of time in. And, you know, it comes up during our weekly level 10 meetings, but I think it's also something that we can find, um, visual accountability is what I call it, visual accountability. Just looking at the accountability at the, at the scorecard will. Instantly hold people accountable because if Amanda, you have to punch your number in every week and you're, you're, you know, you're off track on your number, it's gonna be really hard for you to A, you know, deny plausibility and b, to, to kind of scoot away from it because it's a way that we hold ourselves accountable, and I found it to be incredibly impactful. What are your thoughts on scorecard and how do you see it in some of the businesses you work with?

Amanda Barkey

Yeah, I love the scorecard. It is one of the five foundational tools and so I just did a focus day a couple of days ago and we created a scorecard and the coolest part was when, so they're five to 15 high level numbers, right? That you are, tracking on a weekly basis. And people are usually used to tracking or reporting. They really, it's just reporting. It's not really like tracking leading indicators, right? It's usually legging indicators and they're reporting on them. but when we created the scorecard the other day, Matt, people got up out, out of their chairs. I did it up on the whiteboard and they were taking pictures of it with their phone. Like they were just like, this is so cool. They were really like zeroed in on it. it's really like the scorecard to me is like a flashlight. It shines the light into all the corners of your business because you're tracking all the stuff that gives you an absolute pulse on your business. I tell my clients in focus day, if you were on a deserted island and a cabana boy or girl, whichever you prefer, hands you a sheet of paper and it has five to 15 numbers on it, that gives you an absolute pulse on your business. What would those five to 15 numbers. Be. And so we think about that and like, and we create this scorecard that gives us a pulse on our business to know when something's off track that we need to put back on track. There's an issue there to be solved or when something's on track and we need to keep doing that thing. So, um, high performers love it because it, it shows what's working right. And it shows that they're working because they are low performers hate it because, um, they'll, and

Matt Haney

It's shining that

Amanda Barkey

too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the little cockroaches come out when you shine the flashlight in the corners and, and I'll hear people say like, EOS isn't working, our scorecard isn't working. But really what they're saying is like, I'm not working, and oh, shoot, you're finding out about it and now what am I gonna do? And so, you're exactly right. It really holds people accountable to like the like umpteenth degree.

Matt Haney

One of the things that I, I don't think gets enough attention is an a solid green scorecard. I always say your scorecard should look like a Christmas tree. It should have green and red and green and red and green and red, because if everything's green, we're not trying hard enough. We have metrics on the board that don't matter. And if we have 50 metrics on the board and they're all green, then we really have an issue. So going back to LMA, when I'm working with, uh, leaders that are, that are new to leadership, I remind them that it's okay to have red on this scorecard. Red means we're off track or we're not hitting numbers. And we want to make sure that when we're leading people, we're not beating them over the head with the scorecard. It should be a look into the business. It shouldn't be necessarily an opportunity to reprimand. Yes, if we continue to see patterns, then we need to address them, but we don't want people to fear the scorecard. We don't want people to fear accountability. We want them to have trust and faith that we as leaders are gonna help them get past it, and we're gonna remove barriers that are keeping them from getting those numbers green Now. If they're still not getting their numbers green, then maybe we have an, you know, we have a capacity issue or they don't get it. So I think talking about scorecards being red needs to come up more and people need to be comfortable with it and realize that it's not the end of the world.

Amanda Barkey

And I always tell my clients like, the scorecard is a flexible tool, right? You don't just set it and forget it. If your scorecard's not working for you, change it. Change the measurable, change the owner. Change the goal, right? It shouldn't just, yeah, you're absolutely right. It shouldn't just be this like easy pass, right? And um, and you know, in the level 10 meeting, if something's off track or even if something is on track, if it's been green like a lot of weeks in a row, maybe we need to drop that down to the issues list and discuss it because. I heard this really cute, um, saying from an implementer was actually Blake Winters, Mark C. Winters son, the author of Rocket Fuel. He said, um, not all issues deserve tissues. And so issues aren't inherently bad, right? Like issues are things that frustrate you, problems, um, you know, all the, all the. Stuff in the business that, um, that's going wrong, but it's also opportunities, ideas. And so if a scorecard measurable has been green for a number of weeks in a row, maybe there's an opportunity there, right? And so let's drop it down and talk about it. The scorecard is just, it's all the most important stuff in your business. And so there's an opportunity there, um, whether it's red or green, to drop it down. and to discuss. And so that's the beauty of, of looking at it every week and

Matt Haney

Well, you said something that jumped out to me and one of the challenges I struggle with as an integrator is, is the. Need to not want, or the challenge to not want to change the scorecard metrics. Meaning I feel like, oh, that's a, that's a quarterly thing. We'll look at the scorecard metrics in the quarter. Let's get through it and, and move on to the next issue. But, but the reality is, is that we can make a change to our metrics anytime we want and we should, if it's not serving us. So you, you said it, which is, if it's not, you know, if it's not serving us, then we need to make a change.

Amanda Barkey

Right. It's a flexible tool and I tell my clients look like. Um, I certainly don't want you to change your rocks. Like we, we create our rocks in the session room and I've had clients come back and they reword their rocks and they, they, you know, change 'em and kind of like sandbag things and I'm like, ah, I catch them on that. But if their scorecard changes throughout the quarter, I celebrate that. Because if it's not telling you a story, if it's not showing you what winning looks like on a weekly basis, and it's not giving you a pulse on your business, it's a flexible tool. So you should change it up, make it work, make it tell you a story.

Matt Haney

Love that. So well said. So well said. Uh, well, we've talked a lot about work. Tell me about fun. You've got a bunch of children. I have a few children. What do you guys do for fun when you're not, uh, in the, in the session room or chasing soccer balls around with young kids?

Amanda Barkey

Well, you know, I split my time between Southern California and Hawaii, so those are two pretty great places to live. I was born and raised in the, in the Pacific Northwest, in the great white North, and so we spend a lot of time outside. we're at the beach, we're surfing, we're hiking, we're cliff jumping, we're doing all that kind of stuff. so yeah, we're outside people. I'm a sunset girly. I try to catch the sunset. We have some pretty epic sunsets in Hawaii, so, um, yeah, so I love that kind of stuff. I just, we really love the simple life and that's why we move to Hawaii. We just, we really like to be outside together, um, with our ohana, just community togetherness, all that stuff. yeah, I'm, I'm really, actually this podcast is my very last thing before Christmas break, and then I'm taken off. I'm unplugging and I'm gonna spend two weeks with my family out having fun in the sun.

Matt Haney

I'm on a plane in the morning at, at 8:00 AM and uh, I'm trying to unplug for a couple weeks and enjoyed time with my three kids.

Amanda Barkey

Yoda says, do not try. There is

Matt Haney

yes, you're right. I will. I am, I will. Good, good. Good call. Good call. Good call. Well man, it's been so fun to have you and I really appreciate your spirit and your energy and your wisdom. Um, you've done a lot in your career and I think having five children in a. Incredible marriage and a, and a budding EOS practice is, is a lot, lot to be proud of. So thank you for taking the time and joining us today.

Amanda Barkey

Thanks, Matt. I appreciate you and all the work that you do and all of your wonderful people and, um, you know, keep banding those businesses

Matt Haney

That's right. That's right. Thank you so much.

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