The Silent Weight Men Carry: From Boyhood to Manhood

In this episode of Breaking Curses with Excellence, we explore the lived experience of young men growing up in today’s world—from childhood to adulthood—through a powerful cross-cultural conversation with a guest from Ireland.
This discussion highlights the emotional and societal challenges faced by young men, with a deeper lens on the Black male experience, while offering insight that applies to all men and those raising them.
We cover:

• The impact of upbringing on young boys
• Emotional suppression and mental health in men
• Masculinity, identity, and societal expectations
• Healing from generational trauma
• How to support and raise emotionally healthy men

This episode is for parents, mentors, and anyone seeking to better understand the emotional world of men and how to break cycles that limit growth, connection, and self-worth.

Mr James Lumumba -Instagram account see the amazing Work he is doing!

https://www.instagram.com/dontbeafraidtotalk?igsh=N3lwNXQ0NzViYWZ0

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to this episode of Breaking Curses with Excellence. We have a special guest today, James, and I want to make sure I say this correct. All the way from Ireland. So again, appreciate your time. Thank you for coming and joining us today. I know we're six hours, five hours different. So excited to have your perspective as well from another country. So as we start, I think it's a unique opportunity for me to be able to get your perspective as a black man. And um so I want to start that. Tell us a little bit about who you are and what shape you as the man you are today.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Oh, which part will I pick up from? And yeah, so I'm living in Dublin, Ireland, and um what shaped the person that I am today? And the word I'd use will be like curiosity.

SPEAKER_04 1:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

And I've I've always been a curious person, but I was never in an environment that allowed that curiosity. And so as I got older and I kind of became my own person, adult, yeah, that curiosity kind of started coming back in, and um and that led me to doing various great things, um, but also led me into the journey of like self-discovery, learning about myself, and because I became curious about why do I have no feelings. I have feelings that allow to be accepted, but why do I just have numb feelings towards myself? So it's like curiosity is what kind of brought me into the journey of like what's this emotion stuff all about? Right, wow, yeah, okay, yeah, so yeah, for me, curious is the word.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

So did that curiosity make you move away from the area where you felt like it was constrictive or or didn't allow you to express that, or did you just say, you know what, even in this environment, I'm gonna be me.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

What and I think I like I moved out of my family home like when I was 18 because I just didn't it's more just like it just wasn't for me anymore. Okay, you know, I didn't have a job, I was just like mobile. Oh wow, okay, I I I just I just I just wanted like uh a freedom uh to just do do what I wanted to do. Um and um that journey kind of it was it was different then than what it was now. Uh I got involved into like volunteering, um which I spent a lot of years a lot a lot of years doing. Uh that was just for my need to help people. And that kind of just started off as something small, and every year it grew, it grew, grew. Um and uh yeah, so it became a huge part of my life, you know, and it became a huge identity because it's something that I enjoyed doing.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

And so even though it was great and I was doing all these great things, like I said, I didn't really have a feeling that like I just felt empty in those quiet moments, right? And and then one day I was like, Why do I feel this way?

SPEAKER_02 3:49

If you don't mind me asking, like what was the beginning? Like, what did you start with when you started on this road of self-discovery? Did you use books? Did you use either Doctor Friends? What did you use?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Um I so I started listening to like interviews online, okay. Um I started listening to interviews online and then different authors, then I started getting books, and then the moment information started getting into my head, then I was like, Oh, this is I need to learn more. Because for me it was about so I love to understand like human behavior, like what drives white people do. So for me, it was more like why do I feel this way, or um why do I have no feelings to this uh great things that I'm doing, or why don't I have any great feelings towards myself? And so it was listening to interviews and then I started reading books, then it was like the more I learned, the more I wanted to learn. Then I I started to do like uh somatic stuff online, uh like programs and stuff like that. And just something to help tap into those emptiness.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Okay, no, that that's awesome. Um, I I think it's amazing that you went down that road. I think many people, it takes them a long time before they start to you know go down the road of self-discovery, um, figuring out why they are the way they are, because uh I mean, I don't obviously I can't speak for anybody, but I feel like a lot of us walk around self unaware of self, like not ourselves. Like, we know what we want to put out there, we know how we want people to see us, but we have no idea like really what's inside. Um, so I I applaud you for and like in that in such a young age.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yeah, like it's one of those things if people don't want to do, like that's that's fine, like there's no people not interested in that stuff, and and some people are, but right the thing about it is it's painful and it can be lonely, yeah. So it's like, do I want to do that? Because you know, because you don't consider these things until you get into it. Yes, yes, yes, then your viewpoints start to change your surroundings, you start looking at things differently, not in a judgmental way, right? Right, but it's just like this is weird, you know, and you can't really talk too many people about it because they can't relate to what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Before you find people that you're comfortable in that space with, it can be extremely isolating because you know, they're still in this world and they still feel a certain way about things, they're in that environment, and so like you said, you can't really talk to them about what you're realizing or what you may be feeling maybe you don't fit in with anymore, or you know, it it's very, very, very, very isolating. I know for me when I went down through um the beginning of I feel like my true healing process, it was very similar to what you said, like it was painful. Um isolating, you're realizing like, oh, you know, these things that I've been thinking are amazing, or I've been very comfortable with really I shouldn't have been, you know, and that's been affecting how I view myself unbeware, unbeknownst to me. Yeah, um, so I can completely resonate with that. Um, but that's very brave um of you to to take on that that road. That's not easy at all.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Yeah, I I I think it's uh like it's worth it, I think, when you kind of get half not halfway through. I don't want to say halfway because it sounds like there's a finishing line, there isn't a finishing line.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Exactly. Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

You know, I I think it's more like the more layers, the more doors you open that that you can't close because like I have to keep opening more doors and doors, and uh and then just layers and layers and things. So there's no sorry, there's no half-way line, there's no finishing line, it's just it's a journey self-discovery. Yeah, yeah, it's a self-discovery journey, yeah. And and I think it enriches your life in a different way.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Um how you relate to yourself and how you relate to others really does change. Um once you get past the tears and the crying, which never stops. You think you walk through something like, oh, I'm done with that, and then you're like six months later, you're like, Well, I thought I was done with this. Why do I still feel this way? Then you come back again, yeah. Did I not look at this already?

SPEAKER_02 8:41

No, but yes, yes, that that is that is so true. I couldn't even tell you how how true that is.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

That's the roller coaster of it.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

That's the roller coaster of it. So I know you mentioned, you know, how do your curiosity was stunted in a sense. Um what were some of the expectations you felt like you had as as a young person um that kind of maybe inhibited that um curiosity?

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Expectation would have been like in a sense, like in a family home, you know, what was expected of me to be the type of person, the person, sorry, the person I had to be in my family in order to function and for the need of the family. So that's what expectation and always came from. And so when you have a lot of expectation and it's hard for you to find out what you even want, yeah, because there's there's a need for you and this need for you in that system to to function properly because yeah, to fit into that, and you can't just like stop being like if you're conditioned to like, oh I'm kind of conditioned to be the carer, so I can't just stop being that carer for the system to continue to function. So I had to continue to be that person. Yeah, I am still that person, and uh but as long as I had to keep being that person, there's no need for I didn't have time to discover myself, you don't, and you don't, and as a child, you don't really know where to go or who to talk to because your identity is tied to the person that you are, so yeah, what you want and what you feel is not really a conversation.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

It's not even real conversation you have internally, right? Like it's not even no, it's not even so. We talk about here a lot, you know, things have changed, you know, with parenting, obviously. Um but like you know, when we were young, nobody cared what you thought, what you wanted, what what your perspective of your feelings, like that wasn't even a factor. You know, no, like we you need to go here, you need to be this way, you need to be that way. That was it, period. There's no expression, no self-expression. Um, and so now to try to give our little guy that that space to um express himself, right? Be himself, yeah. Uh and not so for me, it was a struggle um not to be that very much like, hey, what are you talking about? You you don't get the uh say in this, you know, in and having to relearn um parenting that way. So yeah, I I 100% get it. The life that I have now, I would have never had with the mentality that I was given as a child. So I completely understand that.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Um and when you go into the role of what it should be now, like you have to learn yourself who to who you are, yes, because otherwise it's just it's just it's not uh easier, you know, because because like that with children they always reflect back to you like what your fears and what your insecurities are, and you need to be comfortable enough in them, otherwise you're just repeating, you're just repeating the previous the previous way of different things. Yeah, only difference is now you talk about feelings, but at the same time you're not really want to go there, yeah, exactly because you're still uncomfortable with them, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Like because you're not yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so how does how does did that affect your relationship with your family? Like you um saying, Hey, you know what, I'm like this, I'm like that. Did that make you closer? Did were they able to see you, or did it take them a little time to warm up? How did that go?

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Um for me, you didn't really have any. Oh, sorry, I can hear myself back. What happened there? No, it's gone.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Okay, yeah, you were clear to me the entire time. No worries, no worries.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Am I still clear?

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Yeah, you're clear.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Okay, so yeah. And yeah, for me, it I didn't really have that challenge. Uh like I said, like when I moved when I moved out, I just kind of went on my own to do my own thing. Um so it wasn't a case of like, oh, look what I'm doing now. I just and it was comfortable for me to do what I was doing on my own than to have a big conversation about it. Like I said, because that that person is not the external person, yes, you know, the external person is the one that people see, and that's the person that everyone saw. The other part, it wasn't a conversation because it's like it's almost like sorry, who are you? Like then it becomes like that thing, like you've changed type of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

You're so right, you're so right, you're so right.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

So uh for me, those two facts never factor is because I just kept a separate.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Also because like that, when you're kind of learning new things and you're learning about yourself, it's until you're comfortable with it, uh it's very difficult to communicate that across and it's a different languages that you have to learn.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Yes, yeah. So yeah, so for me, I I didn't have that challenge, but I can see how it can affect uh other people in terms of like family dynamics, because it becomes like like when we talk about family roles, it's like, oh, what you mean you can't do this in the mortal all of a sudden it creates a chaos. Or if you one day just you start bringing up conversation about feelings, it's gonna be like, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Yes, yeah, we don't deal with that here. Yeah, we don't talk about feelings, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Yeah, if you kind of raise with that, it's difficult to just bring it into the conversation in the family then and expect it to just be welcome because it's gonna be like what what were you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Yes. Do you do you feel like that is even like I know like with my family, even though it was a lot of women, we didn't talk about felons a lot. You know what I mean? I mean, we're it was very rough, like people were saying things that weren't the kindest, and they were you know, oh, it's all joking, you know, it's just how we are, blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

But do you feel like that's even more so when it comes to how society or even families treat men like that, especially when it comes to men, you can't talk about your feelings, or it gets kind of shunned or you know, suck it up, or do you feel like that's true, or um oh, totally like for men it's totally in a different in the sense that so there's an expectation that we've inherited of how men should be like the whole higher hierarchy of systems, like uh you have to be X, Y, and Z, you you're the strong one, you're the protector, and like that's it, you know, so you you're always functioning from your head, you know, you you never function from your emotional because it's like like what is that not acceptable, you know. Yeah, because that that part of me almost kind of gets pushed down at an age, at an early age, to just kind of now if you're expressing anger, that's acceptable, right? You know, if you're expressing rage, that's acceptable. But any other than that, it's like, oh no, that's too soft because it's not loud enough, it's not vocal enough, it's not manly enough. So when you grow up with that, that's who you think a man is, and that's what society would have identified a man to be like. And that's what even as children growing up, that's what your friends would be like, that's what uh their parents would be like. So it's very difficult for you to find an alternative if you don't have any kind of male role models showing you the other side of it. So so you so you grow up with that expectation, and society tells you that's who you should be. So it's very challenging for men to all of a sudden start welcoming the other side of them as well. And that's where I find uh that's the that's the most challenging thing. Because like those things that were pushed down, like they're still there, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

And whether you like it or not, as it's impacting our lives.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

You know, you're just not aware of how much is impacting your life.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

You think like you don't express it, you don't show it, so it doesn't exist. It's pretty much yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

But it can be filtering out through anger and frustration and irritation. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

It it's coming out other ways. Yeah, it's coming out other ways, you know. It's like I I feel so sad, but I can't express that so express my anger. Like my sadness comes out anger because I don't know how to now I don't know how to get sad, so I just have to get angry. Yes, it becomes the channel, and then it's not just anger in terms of like aggression, it's anger in terms of like comments, what you say to people, that kind of stuff. It's yeah, ways that these feelings like spill out. But because it's accepted, we think that's normal.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. You you're you're you're you're spot on with what I've what I've seen, you know, um with men in my life, um is that they were taught to be a certain way, you know. Others were not, others were you know allowed to have all the big feelings, but weren't held accountable. But I've seen others who have um a lot of feelings, but it only comes out as anger, you know what I mean? Like yeah, I know you feel something else besides anger right now. You may feel sad, you may feel embarrassed, but you don't know how to articulate that. And it's not always easy to hear that necessarily from a woman. Um, but I think in what I hope in in even listening to this, they'll give space, you know, that other men can see um that it's acceptable um to show other feelings besides that, right? It doesn't make you less of a man, it makes you even more human, you know, because we all have feelings. A lot of times they say women are the emotional ones, but I think we're all emotional to an extent, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

We are we're human, you know, and we feel yeah, it's just the yeah, the the society has put yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because like that, like without going in too much into it, like when you talk about the femininity and masculinity, we both have both. Yes, there's this what one energy expresses itself more than the other, yes, but that should be out of choice, not an adaptation. Yeah, you know, I should be able to accept my femininity because it's a part of me whether I like it or not, yes, yes, as a choice, not as a way to adapt. Um and when we talk about men sharing, like it's easier to say we should speak out, but there's also fear of not knowing, and there's a fear of space because a lot of it's due to a lot of us can't communicate because we don't we don't have the space to communicate. You know, so it's it it it's challenging in in a relationship when she's like we need to communicate, and you're like, I don't know, I don't even know what you're talking about. Yeah, you know, because well it's not that they don't want to communicate, they don't know how to communicate. Yeah, but you know, everything is in their head, everything is logic. So when you ask me to explain to you how I feel, it's confusing.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Right. Even though vocabulary is not there when it comes to your personal feelings, right? You can hear it from other people how they feel, but to articulate it is is hard to do because it's just not allowed, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Yeah, and it's almost like that it's permissioned for it to be, you know, is to say if is this space safe enough for me to express this.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Because the last thing you want.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

is to express something that gets pushed back then forget it and make you feel worse right oh yeah yeah then it'd be like then it kind of reinforces that belief like say that's why you don't do it yeah thank you so much for yeah bringing that perspective do do you have any any suggestions any guidance or advice for um a young man who who is struggling with that maybe um knows that he has a lot of feelings uh young or older you know has a lot of feelings but doesn't know how to articulate how do they start on that journey to um embracing both sides of themselves or articulating what they feel yeah so if you if you didn't grow up with it as in like if say your family home like those expressions were not modeled by your father so we have to find space for that so whether it'd be through community groups where it would be finding role models that kind of that talk about the things that you want to talk about and just despite listening to them now if it's online it's still the same but it's just giving you words but for you it's more around finding a community because there's a lot of communities online that like if you find an online community you can join in and you don't even have to have your camera on you can just log on with a fake name whatever you want and just listen.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Yes and just listen and do that as long as it takes until you feel comfortable enough to put your real name there if you until you feel comfortable enough to turn your camera on. Because you need to you need to know that space is safe enough for you to express how you want without being shamed because the last thing you want like join a community that says men's group and this is all great and you log on and you turn your camera on you say something someone not intentionally but they might say something that's shameful that push you back again. You know because you've already made the attempt to find a place like that's the hardest part trying to find a place and and the fact that you have that fault already is an indicator that it's more there's more for you. Like that's a signal like there's more for you there's more parts of you that want to be expressed. So it's a matter of finding a space and seeing yourself and like I said have the camera up see how safe it feels and I think you don't need to be like oh I feel safe now you just feel it what one day you just come on and introduce yourself. When you do this your head is going to be telling all sorts of things but just come on and say who you are and you're just happy to be there and maybe go off again. Come back again. Because you need to measure because your body needs to feel safe in the sense that okay I can tell these people these things and they won't shame me and then the rest is just in your head. Your head is the part that's telling you don't do it because you're dealing with emotional things and it doesn't want you to feel any pain. Like that's what your head is doing. But you would feel safe enough to open up to and even when I say role model it's someone that you know for example you will know how you feel about what you can share with them. You know if you if you're a teenager and say your father or his friends or whatever they always like manly man how we understood that you're not gonna have this conversation with them. But if there's one of them that you kind of feel like they kind of display those behavior or they talk about those things maybe that that's the person to lean into right because they're more likely to respond to you in a way that others can't right because again it's about keeping yourself safe because you don't want because like I always say like you already hurt you know the person's already hurt. They just need to be seen that you don't need to keep talking that hurt over and over again because it's not helping. So finding a place and finding someone and I know that part can be difficult if you didn't if you don't have that environment but like I I've found some great communities online and for me that we just talk and there's no there's no judgment there's no sharing because everyone's dead is to share the experiences and I think that's why because the moment you share it it's a load off you know no one's trying to correct you or fix you.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

The people are just listening to you so um yeah that that would be my takeaway does that make sense what do you say does that that would be like my advice and find find find find a place a community online or in per in person if possible but online like I said you don't need to go all in out to just hide and until you're ready to kind of say hello that type of thing yes and you begin to feel like okay I can do this here and you know because if you didn't have it growing up sadly as it sounds you would have to find it yes yes in in the the interesting thing um I think many would find is that there are a lot of people who feel the same way you know across a lot of different areas that feel the same way as they oh definitely the moment you start finding these spaces it's almost like oh I'm not crazy or I'm not you know what I mean yeah like the odd one yeah you know it's it's not just me it didn't just happen to me it's happened to so many of us but yeah because we're so separated and we all in our head all the time we think this is only me you know and that alone and hearing people talk that alone kind of calms you down because you're like oh my god this is obviously your experience matters all of experiences matters but it shows that those people that are sharing also have a similar situation yes yes and and yeah just being in those spaces is is is huge it's huge and uh fine if you didn't get it sadly you would have to seek it that's the part that's not so great because right if you come from that family home it's very difficult for say your dad one day to start to say oh tell me how you feel because you'd be like yeah you'll be thinking what's wrong with him exactly what happened to you yes absolutely absolutely now it's not impossible right but they can maybe go on their own journey and then be at a place where they can uh become that emotional support but that's also possible but it's very difficult I think what yeah I think the the the thing is don't expect it to happen right you could be waiting a long time just embrace it if it does right embrace it if it does yeah if it if it comes embrace it but if it doesn't you know sadly we have to seek the splaces ourselves and and when you seek them you begin to meet people that uh can relate to you an emotional level and stuff would be like a door opening to you for you do it more yeah yeah so uh from a different perspective like what would you say to someone who had an influent influential part in shaping a young man to help him to have that kind of self-discovery would like parents what would you say to parents or um in in some cases especially I shouldn't say especially here I'm aware of especially here we have a lot of single mothers um where there is isn't a good role model in the home um what would you say they could do to help their sons or even at times n nephews um get in that that space of self-discovery that that free have that freeness to express themselves emotionally what can what can someone do and I think you have to it it's always not funny but like obviously I'm not questioning mother raising the son that's not where I'm coming from okay but there's always certain part there's only certain things that you can teach them you know like and that's just the reality of it we can't I'm not downplaying anyone that you you know don't that's not what I'm saying. I whole hardly get what you're saying though.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

I do yeah so you can only it's almost like you can only take him so far but his reality is different to yours. Yes he he has to operate in the world different to you. Yes so uh I would like I would say it's exposing them to different types of like say if you're single mother raising a son right as a child I think you have to be willing to expose them to different male figures. It doesn't necessarily have to be their father. Right because often I find people that often hear stories people like someone says something that changed my life it's never really their father it's always someone different. Yeah you're right you're right it a teacher or someone they met a friend's dad that gave them a different light that changed their life. Yes so I think it exposing them especially as kids exposing them to different male figures and obviously healthy ones because what you're doing then he's learning from different male how to behave. Yes he hasn't just got like one frame of reference he knows like this guy behaves different way this guy behaves so it's learning from all of them and rather than just trying to learn from one I think it's actually better that he's learning from the because if you multiple yeah yeah if you come from a home where let's say like my dad didn't do anything in terms of let's say housework like that's your frame of reference that's what men do so you you're not gonna get married and think that you have to do this because your dad didn't do it. You don't have a frame of reference of like oh this we should all be doing this right but if you if you if you in an environment where you've seen men doing these things then it's kind of like okay it's normal because they're doing it. Yes absolutely you know it's just then you're seeing other people doing it's like okay so not other people I mean like you've seen other men do it then it becomes normalized for you as well right that it's not like a brand new experience. Right. So just just showing them uh what like how different men live the life and how they break from and from that then they can learn from different people like that it's it's communities really is what absolutely and what helps what shapes yeah what helps shape the person and that it's not just like one father raising a person or one mother because and in the culture I come from like my auntie used to tell me like when they were growing up it was just like they all came from different families but it was not like brothers and sisters. Everyone just to be family. Yeah yeah you can just come and go as you please you know so so you're growing up seeing different role models all the time that it's not just like oh this is the way we do it so this is how we continue to do it because because it's the way we've always done it right yeah if if that's all you see is that's what you grow up thinking is normal. Even sorry even dysfunction is classed as normal I'll say that again yes absolutely absolutely when you are like just kind of in your own family world you know you you come out as an adult and your your eyes are completely opened and and you're blown away by the things that you thought were normal and we're not that you thought were healthy and we're not because you've been in this world like you said dysfunction is classified as normal in your home and you're like wait so that wasn't normal like that wasn't healthy that wasn't but everybody else yeah yeah you're right yeah it's like oh we didn't do it this way kind of like what yeah absolutely I um yeah yeah the the word normal is uh try not to use that word as much yeah it it's objective right because what people guys buy is normal could you know not be healthy at all um no thank you thank you very much for that I I like what you said kind of goes with you know something I I say people are like you know dad's every child needs their dad um girls need their dad blah blah blah but I I just feel like as somebody who was raised for most of my life around my dad you need a good father right so with young men like you said they need good men to see multiple good men um it doesn't necessarily need to be the dad um because not every parent is the best influence to be honest or the both best role model right so to have multiple um is really helpful a village you know here I feel like we talk a lot about a village but we don't always practice it um no no I I feel like even here we're kind of getting away from that obviously median culture sorry media and ex externals have a huge role to play in that but I think we've we becoming more and more individualized and you know there's no yeah the element of like a group is slowly disappearing and we think we're still connected but we're not we're not we're not we're connected to our devices right to every device you know maybe connected yeah go ahead yeah because you can be you can be in a home and you're not connected with that home yeah that's so true you know and that's the only place to be and you no longer have an external community yes to I don't know talk to to bounce ideas off because you we we cut we're becoming more and more internally in sense that this is this is our UNIT and that's it.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

Yeah this is this is so true um our our our little guy he has uh gotten to the age where you know they want to be in the room and they just want to talk to their friends and play games and like they're not as much you know just out in in and with us and so um I try to pull him out you know like no we're gonna have some family time we're gonna do this we're gonna do that I want to talk to you you know he calls my life lessons and um he's like thanks for the long talk but um it's so important that we connect in real life with people who are in our family and that's across all genders and you know all ages you know we need to connect to our family you know it even even as kids for them to connect outside of the home yes yes you know when I was growing up yeah like when I was growing up you weren't allowed in a house it'd be like what are you doing here you go outside yes stay outside until I don't know about you but until the the like the lights go down or the lights come on yeah like stay out there and if you come in you don't stay in don't be coming back and forth yeah like go on interact interact with people and have that human connection because I think that's essentially because when you grow up like you look at it now when you meet your friends from before you talk about stuff that happened in childhood events.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Yes not just because when you're all at home all the time you don't really have an event to talk about right right oh you remember that time I was in the game and yeah yeah there's no like real life event to discuss and that's what you create memories.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Yes right someone was telling me they they're now teaching teenagers how like how to make friends running courses on that and I'm like I was like what but like that that that's how it's going yeah it's how disconnected right we become through this yeah it's like how are they gonna grow up and build a relationship like in person relationship right when you you're like you just used to your devices right or somebody behind a screen that says the things that you like or if they don't say something you like you just stop talking to them where you don't know how to even conflict resolve right you don't even know how to deal with you know this is we're we're both good people but how can we resolve this like they they get none of those skills when it's all yeah no this is this is encouraging for me even just to think of more ways we can get him you know interacting. You know what I mean like we have him in in certain uh children group and things like that but I just feel like it's so important for us to know how to deal with people in person.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Yeah and and I think yeah so go ahead yeah and I think that part like the adult have to walk extra depends like they they have to create those spaces for them to camera adventure out like let's not think the children will think of these things because they want exactly exactly it's on us adults right to think of these things to to yeah to to help them grow to to draw them out like yeah yeah absolutely and so speaking of like getting a mentor or things like that did you have anybody in your childhood maybe that you kind of looked up to and that helped you even make that decision to to go out on your own and do your own thing or um I I've met a lot of interesting people doesn't even have to be your childhood it can be your adulthood because you know we also when I like I said when I moved out my home I and I started getting into when I was getting into my volunteering the very start of it and my one of my friends dad became a good person for me to talk to about what I want to do to run ideas with. So he became a very important figure in my life and someone that I always rang and be like I want to do this I want to do that I want to do this interesting and then and then he'd be like no that's not possible start again he was like this idea doesn't make sense go back and look at it and come back to me next week. Oh wow that's awesome that is awesome to have that in your life what was one of the biggest lessons or advice that you can remember he gave you um that that that maybe had a huge impact then or or still does to this day I think I think he just believed in what I was doing you know and there was never like a sense of discouragement he just that's awesome you know it was like oh what are you doing okay how can I support you what do you need what do you want me to do and just that belief that like yeah what are you trying to do is possible but how can we make it better? Wow you know and yeah there was no like now when something didn't make sense we'll sit down and think about how can we make it make sense right right right but still like that that's yeah so yeah so he was he still isn't a very important person in my life and so we'll always be grateful.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

Yes that that's I know I keep saying that but that's amazing um that you had that because I think all of us um need that person that believes in us right and then will sit us down and say hey you know I see where you're going with this but let let's rethink it let let's let's try to make it make sense or come back to me later you know um kind of bring us back to reality you know but still believe our dreams and our hopes and who we are uh it's a huge um plus and benefit of it it it is and like though they're the kind of things that can really like it's a different type of growth you know just knowing that you have someone there that will support you in that way is it really you can accept

SPEAKER_00 44:00

thing for you and being able being able to find that person and then that is coming from a place of care and they just care for you you know and not for any gain it's just they care for you they care about you as a pro they just care about you as a person um like and I think if you're lucky enough like I would say if you if you're lucky enough to meet someone like that in your life and it's it's yeah you're blessed yes absolutely absolutely I um I've had I've had some very good friends in my life but once I left the church um it was I found someone it's actually um a a a trans pastor that has been that person for me he he believes in everything he gets excited more excited sometimes than I do about my ideas and what I'm working on and um all my business ventures and tries to give me ideas and he gives me honest criticism sometimes too you know yeah but I I'm extremely blessed to have that in my life you know um because like you said sometimes those people are not your family they are not your part of your foundation they are people that you've been blessed to come across and uh yeah ever grateful for those people you know yeah never to be taken for granted right yeah because like the ideas can die very quick yes yes if you if you don't have it uh support the environment you know I I want to do this no you can't do that or okay then right right and and that quick your your whole excitement your plan your thought is just deflated um yeah I completely I've had that happen to me so many times you know where you share it with somebody and they're just like yeah I don't see how you're gonna do that like you know really I don't even think that makes sense and you're just like you know you're just like well maybe they're right I don't I don't know I I thought it was a good idea but you know yeah because we we all come from homes and that always not always but generally where you're made to feel like no there's no malice behind this but this is this parenting it's almost like your ideas doesn't really matter. It's like where do you get a stupid idea from yes yes your ideas don't matter your thoughts don't matter it's just almost like you're just this little person that you you accept everything so it in a sense it's kind of crushing your ability to just think of like ideas and over time you just stop thinking because every time you think of something you'd be like that's a stupid thought shut down right right yeah push yeah and their words become your thoughts right even when they're no longer to push them down your head thinks of ways or reasons why this is a dumb idea right yeah that's so like and what happens is like that you mentioned like we internalize those voices and 20 years later those voices are still beating you up yes yes you know and what what's even what's even worse is they sound like you yes yes yes they become yeah they sound like you're they sound like you yeah so you're like and we know this because we often say like oh I caught myself saying this to myself and I was thinking this from you know you think it's you that's beating it up it's just those internalized voices so if you're lucky enough to meet someone that's like I have this idea they're like okay let's go with it there's an excitement to it yes it's like oh my god exactly exactly exactly no I I uh wholeheartedly agree with everything you're saying so what tell me um about your work like what what do you work what services do you offer what um so I am yeah yeah so currently I move into slave culture and like I said I love to understand human behavior why do we do that yes why do I do that yes yes and so I'm always trying to understand and help people understand their patterns because uh because the patterns always repeat themselves it's just we don't know that we're in a pattern of behavior because your brain is behavior like one thing your brain is good at is identifying pattern and keeping you in that pattern.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

So I try to help people understand what their pattern of behavior is and also help people operate from a place of like like who am I you know the the self-discovery of learning about myself and self-discovery of learning about yourself because often people say like what's your niche I'm like I don't know yes I want to work with people that are dedicated to help themselves you know I want to work with people that's like oh there's more to life yes rather than because you you might find like I mean all this sometimes where you think like oh that new job is what's gonna make me happy and then you get into a new job and it's like the the emptiness the loneliness is still there or this relationship is what's gonna make me happy and it's exciting but inevitably your your pattern of behavior or how you feel about yourself will still still come up will find a way to get out so I try to help people be at a place where they're exploring that themselves that they're learning about themselves like what what do I like what do I feel how do I lean into that feeling yes and and just being in that process because you you find like we said earlier what you thought was normal isn't normal yes yes and and yeah you're you're so right we look for external validation in so many areas like when I reach this I'll feel like this when I do this I'll do this I'll feel this way when I have that car I'll feel like man I've made it but the reality is it all starts with us like you said like our own internal like you said exploration figuring out what what from the past we are still holding on to what has blocked us it's so true it's so true but it's that's um I love that those blocks are still there and it's up to us then to be keep like like I said like be curious of like why this pattern repeating themselves and often the reason what your head is telling you it's not the reason.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

Yes there's layers to that so how can I get to a place where I can explore that gently because emotional work is heavy in terms of like feeling stuff is heavy. But just being curious and exploring that and I think the journey back to self-discovery is essentially what we should all be doing and learning about ourselves because many of us huge portion of us are just uh we operate from a place of our conditions all the time. You know our conditioning is where we're operating from rather than the person like I want to be rather than the person I'm here to exp express myself the way I want to without harming anyone. Yes you know without like oh I can't do this because I feel guilty but the guilt is not yours. Right. You know it's not yours. And so I should be able to say no without feeling guilty. So what do I feel guilty then? So then just understanding that like it's not your guilt like it's not your shame that you're carrying it's something else right that you just embodied and identified as is this who I am absolutely explaining what I try to do what I help people with. And again like we said throughout recording like if this is a process you know there's no there's no middle but it's a start.

SPEAKER_02 52:50

There's a start absolutely there's a start I always say that it's um healing is not a or self-discovery even you know it's not a destination it's it's a journey it that will continue on um yeah and curiosity is is such an important quality to have uh when it comes to yourself self-discovery no and it helps tremendously not to ever be stagnant to constantly be learning and letting those like you said those doors open yourself and accept the fact that things are gonna come back up it's not wrong it's something right yeah you didn't do anything wrong um yeah yeah and I think that's why I think like in this experience of life like life is an experience that we're having you know yes you know people in the 30s have kind of like giving up hope like this is what life is but it's more to you yes you know there's more to being here than what TV taught us or what our parents taught us.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

Right you know it's like I'm ex now what if what you're doing is good for you like I'm not trying to change that. Right right right but if if you feel like there's more that's the reason that's your sign that there is more.

SPEAKER_02 54:06

Yes yes for you you know for that that yeah that feeling that just comes up around and you're like what is that right it's time to explore it right yeah yeah that's that's the connection to say come on we you know we need to do more here not more in terms of doing even just experiencing experiencing yes open our minds more things like that yeah yeah yeah yeah it can be a completely mental experience you know to to explore more so I know that you also have a podcast what's the name of your podcast yeah so my podcast is called Don't be afraid to talk awesome awesome it's a don't be afraid to talk what is can you give us um like a little summary of of some of the topics that you talk about on there or so on the podcast I invite guests to share their personal stories and uh of the struggle and about any topic and I also bring in professionals like experts and like doctors and therapists.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

Oh wow and we do a QA of a range of topics with different people okay okay so there's yeah so there's on that is like different topics and all under the mental health umbrella it's such a huge umbrella and there's so many things there's so many ways of learning about itself there's so many ways of healing and I just try to talk about all the possible ways that I can uh with people okay and when I say don't be afraid to talk is like when I look back on it that's almost like a message for myself because below my layers of feeling nothing is fear there you know below the layers of being quiet and not talking is fear there. So it's almost like don't be afraid to talk because I think the moment you begin to talk and share experiences you meet people and you meet people that are ready to hear experiences and that are ready to share with you that fear that fear that we all have like if I open my mouth what would people think is it too much you know right so it's almost like it's almost like a permission to say it to get it out.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

Yeah you know get it out and in the right space that that yeah I'm I'm excited to to to listen um to your podcast and hear you know all the different perspectives I'm sure that uh I'll resonate with it like many others will so yeah yeah we talk about um parenting relationship marriage we even talk about sex education okay which I found challenging to talk about it's more the topic as in like because like I came from a home where you don't touch that subject at all.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

Yes yes you know so when it came for I was like oh sex I was like I want to talk about this stuff. Yes and it can I can almost feel the shame just like lurking it's like what are you doing you know yeah because I'm going into topics that that this goes against my yeah yeah yeah there's conversations there on like religion beliefs and cults and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

Again these are all heavy stuff that I would have done going there but now I'm like I want to talk about no that that yeah yeah wow so that's kind of the the same as you know what I try to do with my now I haven't had any therapists or anything like that but just just talk about those things that people don't want to talk about have upcoming um episode we're gonna talk about religious trauma and that's something that was forbidden to talk about you know when I was in the church you know you don't talk about that church you know we stay away from that we don't like satanic or something um but it's something that people need to hear just like the the the sex education that people need to hear about that people need to have those conversations um and I think we've done a lot of damage and not so um I'm yeah because we're afraid we're afraid of that yes we're afraid of it we're afraid of it yeah shame is around it right um so that that even amazing and even getting perspective from like therapists in terms of like relationships just putting those patterns together because sometimes you don't really know what it is like I feel these feelings but I don't really sure what it is how does it feel yeah but just having someone give you the words that helps also yes and it'd be like oh I'm not messed up this is normal got it yes absolutely absolutely um that sounds like an amazing uh for lack of a better word uh um podcast and I I love the subjects that you're bringing up and bringing out um I think our listeners would definitely benefit from um checking some of your episodes out or all of them out uh we're gonna definitely put that information at the bottom of of this description or episode here yeah as a as I said before truly grateful for you to spend this time with us today uh to take out your time to share all the information you um enlightened us I I think you gave a comfortable space uh for I would say to have those conversations about the black man's experience or men in general to be honest with you um are around emotional um feelings and yeah embracing both sides of us you know I I feel like as as women we we're allowed to embrace both right but it would it's really important that we give men the the space to embrace both as well um yeah yeah so I I think yeah go ahead yeah and and I think like that for women it's small being in space where you can allow him to be the to allow his softness or tenderness to to come out you know you have to be comfortable enough for that as well to to to not shame it right to not make it yeah seem like oh you're being too soft or you're yeah yeah yeah play it down shame it because the moment you do that he goes back in his shell retreat right yeah yeah so uh like if you want those people in your life you need to be comfortable enough to let them have the experience because for them to get to that point it's very hard and so just yeah mindful of both yeah yeah so that that's a reminder to to wives right to to be um open and and and willing uh to like you said allow him to show his softness not jump on it not you know rush to correct it or rush to minimize it or act like that's too soft um I am I am married to another woman so that's a whole nother a whole nother of um of of feelings and emotions but I appreciate that reminder because sometimes we can be quick even with our little guy you know I I recognize that there's a lot of things is a whole nother subject but there's a lot of things I can't teach him but I'm trying to help him be a good person you know but we want community for him we want him to see himself in other men um it's been a little bit of a struggle for us to find that um because there's a lot of stigma around it you know with us being two women raising a boy and you know him being oh he's soft because he's around women and you know just all those things so you know we really want him to have that though it is not in any way you know sometimes the stereotype is oh you don't think he needs a man no we want him to have that we do we want him to have you know that that role model those mentors those men that he can look up to you know and we'll give him we can yeah for him to have that you know yeah yeah and and that's that's the gift like it's not to shame how anyone's raising the child it's just knowing that the effects it will have an effect on boys and girls whether you whether you like it or not and you can do amazing job but you it still has an effect on them as a person because the world is not going to see them how you see them. No no and and that's so that's um what I I keep in the forefront of my mind you know is yeah it's it's it's nice to be soft and cute and oh you know baby baby but that's not the way life is gonna treat him um and he should he should be able he should have the chance to adjust to that being the way life treats him right in an environment where he is loved. They're not gonna care about oh this is too hard for me oh no you gotta you and I tell him like you've got to know how to do things without having somebody else do them for you because you know my mom's ready to do everything right willing to do everything for the baby no that's not how life is going to be and you're gonna be miserable if that's what you go out of there expecting you know or I I literally said this too like you'll you'll accept things from people that you shouldn't accept because you don't you haven't learned how to do these things on your own so if you if you know how to do them on your own then you don't need to take their crap because they know how to do it for you you know um but yeah I I I wholeheartedly agree so we'll we'll continue to like I said we have him in some programs but we're continuing to look out for those good those good mentors for him yeah yeah yeah and like we said it's the adult's job to find yeah yeah yeah yeah absolutely absolutely because we don't want him to have the the oh I have to be tough you know that mentality but we do want I mean you have to have a certain amount of toughness for this world you know you can't be super solved you have to have some thick skin to be out there and we want him to have that um and yeah because that's that's the externals in it that's the that's the demand but also go home and be safe enough yes yes to tap into the other side don't just be this this robotic person in both right yeah you know go outside and express yourself but come in here and be yeah soft if you need to space there for you absolutely and I I think too um for our little guy he's he honestly feels like he knows how to be very soft to people and kind to people outside but he's not used to his to be rougher at home you know and so you know working with him on that like you be soft here to us you know uh you you need to be you need to see us too like you know I think the thing that can be hard sometimes with boys seeing women being this strong one all the time is that they don't realize like no a woman needs softness too she

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

needs help even though she may be the one who takes care of you in every way she's still a human like she still has hum feelings you know um so that's something that you know I try to work on him with you know that yeah yeah and those instincts yeah those instincts those yeah those instincts like as uh as we grow up like as boys like they naturally come to you so it's the the the question then becomes are those instincts being nourished around me or are they just being pushed down because his need to do things as a man would come out naturally to him so if you're still doing all this stuff stuff is like that part of him is not being expressed it's not being navigated so it's almost like yes yes you're loving him but at the same time he's not letting that part of himself yeah grow and what that energy needs to come out and go somewhere and do things but if it's all just being given given given yes it's almost like it it's like this analogy of like if you take like if you take uh a line out of the safari and put him in it he still have an instincts of that you know if you take one from the zoo you put him in safari he's used to people giving him things now he has to hunt for himself he's not gonna survive long yes yes it's no that's so true that's so so true yeah nourishing natural instinct yeah that's what that's what a person's becoming but when you push it down because you want to be this good mother and you are but you're not really helping them in the long run.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:51

No thank you thank you so much for that I um yeah be that 40 year old who can't make bread or toast sandwiches looking for somebody to make them what yeah yeah yes absolutely no I um I I really appreciate that that's that perspective because I can sometimes have that um but I don't think I thought of it being nourishing that that part of him because I know that like for instance with me I am the bonus mom you know I wasn't always around but he has this thing where he feels protective over me sometimes like he wants to know like what time I'm getting home and and and you know it it almost like he's stressing out like it it's dark and she's still on you know um and so I embrace it and I I say that you know he's most protective but I don't think I fully nourish him you know because that is that is the that is the man part of him that protector that yeah uh that makes sure that they're good part of him and it it's precious and it's cute but it's also to be nourished um yeah so I will keep that in mind I thank you for that thank you absolutely absolutely um well I know we we went over time which has been a blast for me it's very it it it's been amazing I feel like we could probably talk a lot more I feel like you have a lot more to tell um to share yeah maybe yeah I I feel like you do um um yeah I think I'm just comfortable to talk about many things a lot a lot of stuff but that that's awesome that's awesome we we need that we need your voice so um thank you again for taking the time i um i hope that you continue on with your um podcast and sharing everything bringing up those subjects those odd conversations that nobody wants to have but need to have need to have yeah in this world um thank you for your voice and for using your heart that way um truly appreciate it so thank you please look at the the links below for his podcast also ways to work with him directly um I'm excited uh and thankful again for having this chance to talk to you maybe down the road if you want to come back I'd be more than welcome to more than happy to have you back again and we can talk about something else if you like but until next time definitely yeah our our listeners I'm your host christy or christina and today we had and you can tell us share um your name with us again if you don't mind Jane James Lamumba um my yeah my Instagram is don't be afraid to talk that's the quick that's your Instagram do you have like Facebook and TikTok as well or um Instagram is probably the best platform. Yeah yeah Instagram is probably yeah yeah and it's just don't be afraid to talk that's where I put out a lot of my content my coaching hasn't got an Instagram yet because it's on a new okay understood but yeah okay well I I will make sure to follow you I'll be um breaking curses uh with excellence will be my handle for Instagram but until next time we as always I encourage everybody to keep breaking those curses with excellence thank you for listening bye