F*ck, Let’s Talk About Money (Before It’s Too Late) with Pascale Heylar

SEASON 2 > EPISODE 2

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In this episode of F*ck, I’m Nearly 50!, I’m joined by superannuation and wealth expert, founder of Pascale HM, and one of the most important voices in Australia when it comes to women and money, Pascale Helyar-Moray.

And honestly… this is a conversation most of us have been avoiding.

Because money, and especially super, can feel confusing, overwhelming… and let’s be real… a bit boring.

But here’s what hit me during this conversation.

👉 Super isn’t boring.

👉 It’s not optional.

👉 And it might actually be the most important financial asset you have outside your home.

And yet, so many women don’t really understand it.  

This episode is that moment where we stop… and go: “Okay… it’s time to actually look at this.”

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✨ If you’ve ever thought:

“I should probably understand my super…”

“I don’t really know what mine is doing…”

“I’m hoping it’s all just fine…”

This episode is for you.

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THIS EPISODE GETS INTO:

💰 Why women retire with less super than men — and what’s really driving the gap

📉 How career breaks, part-time work, and even menopause impact long-term wealth

🧠 The real reason women feel less confident about money (it’s not what you think)

🔥 Why doing nothing with your money is the biggest risk of all

📊 What super actually is (in simple terms) and why it’s your future bank account

👀 The one thing every woman should check in her super today

💡 Practical, simple steps to start building wealth — even in your 40s and 50s

🏡 The truth about “pay off the mortgage vs build super”

⚖️ What women need to know about super in divorce (this is a big one)

📈 Why women are about to control trillions in wealth — whether we’re ready or not

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WHAT I LOVED ABOUT THIS CONVERSATION

Pascale doesn’t make money feel intimidating.

She makes it feel like something you can actually understand… and take control of.

She reframes super from:

❌ confusing

❌ boring

❌ something you’ll deal with “later”

To:

✨ your biggest asset

✨ your future freedom

✨ your ability to have choice in your life

Because at the end of the day… Money isn’t about money.

It’s about:

• Freedom
• Choice
• Independence
• And not being stuck in situations you don’t want to be in.

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ABOUT PASCALE HELYAR-MORAY

🌐 Learn more: https://pascalehm.com.au/

📘 Read Pascale’s book:

Rich Woman, Poor Woman - How to Break the Cycle of Financial Overwhelm

https://www.amazon.com.au/Rich-Woman-Poor-overwhelm-financial/dp/192318623X

Pascale is a leading voice in financial services, superannuation and women’s wealth, helping reshape how women engage with money and build long-term financial independence.

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🔥 Let’s keep the conversation going! 🔥

📺 Watch the episodes on YouTube – Subscribe here! 

💬 Join the community – Follow me on Instagram @fckimnearlyfifty and share your thoughts on this episode. Or connect with me on LinkedIn.

🎧 Never miss an episode – Subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

📢 Spread the word – If you loved this episode, share it with a friend (or 10). Because midlife is better when we figure it out together.

Because f*ck, we’re nearly 50, and isn’t that amazing? 🚀

Transcript

Why Money Gets Real At Midlife

Dom Hind 0:00

Hi, I'm Dom Hind, and f*ck I'm nearly 50. Actually, I'm 48 now, and lately I've been thinking a lot about something that quietly sits in the background of most of our lives, but suddenly becomes very real in midlife. Money, not the glamorous version, not the buy a handbag version, not that I buy a handbag, but the real version, the version that determines whether we have freedom, security, choices, and independence as we move into the next chapter of life. And I've had this moment recently where I thought, if I'm honest, do I actually understand my super? Not vaguely, not conceptually, but properly, enough to know I'm going to be okay. Because here's the truth many women are incredibly capable in every part of our life. We build careers, we raise families, we manage households, we make complex decisions every single day. But when it comes to financial systems like investing, retiring, planning, and superannuation, many of us were never taught properly how they work. And by the time we reach our late 40s or early 50s, a lot of us suddenly realize something. We may have spent decades building lives, but we haven't always been building financial power alongside it. And I know I'm not the only one. If you're listening to this and thinking, I've been meaning to look at my super, I really don't know what it's invested in, and I'm hoping it's all just fine. This episode's for you because it's never too late to understand money. It's never too late to take control, and it's never too late to build the financial independence that supports the life you actually want. Because fuck, I'm nearly 50, and isn't it amazing? Today's guest is someone who spent her career working right at the intersection of finance, superannuation, venture capital, and women's financial improvement. Pascal Hellier is the founder of Pascal HM, a consultancy that helps financial institutions better understand and serve women as clients and investors. She has worked across venture capital, fintech, superannuation, and financial services, and has written a book that I have actually read and understand about super, which is great. But what I love about Pascal's work is this. She's not just talking about how money is numbers, she's actually trying to give you a choice and your independence and the ability to design your life on your own terms. Because women are not just participants in the financial system. We are the ones with the most power, and we are absolute economic powerhouses. And yet, many financial systems, including superannuation, were originally designed around male careers and their patterns. So today we're unpacking it all and we're looking at what women actually need to understand more about money, why super matters more than we think, and that's a big one. And how to stop feeling intimidated and start feeling in control. Pascal, welcome to Fuck I'm Nilly 50. Uh let's start here. How would you introduce yourself at a dinner party?

Pascale Helyar 3:44

Well, firstly, thank you for that introduction. I think that was one of the better introductions I've had. Thank no, honestly, because so many people just do cut and paste, cut and paste from, you know, bios or or whatnot. But um I I feel like you told my story in a in a new way. Good. Yes. So thank you. Honestly. Thank you for that. Um how would I introduce myself at a dinner party? Well, it's it's actually a really good question because I'm always slightly perplexed when I do introduce myself because I have so many facets to what I've done over my career and um that I I don't fit a box. Yeah. I I I don't just I can't say, oh, I'm an accountant or I'm a lawyer or I'm a doctor or anything like that. I've had this um very multifaceted career, which has one thing has led to the next, has led to the next, and I've been able to pull it all together, but summarizing that in one word is just not easy. So what I tend to say is I'm a superannuation and wealth expert. Yes. Um uh I mean it also does depend where I am. Yeah, of course. So if I'm at a fintech event, I'm I'll say I'm a twice-exited founder. Yes. Um if I'm at a literary event, I'll say I'll published author. Uh so it does depend on on where I am, but mostly I go with superannuation and wealth expert, and then that tends to start the conversation from there, and then depending on who I'm talking to and where I am, then I'll sort of reveal different facets of my background. Yeah.

Dom Hind 5:28

Okay. Okay, I like that. And it's I think it is, it is I I feel the same. Whenever anyone says, can you introduce yourself? I'm always like. Well, um, I like to hobby at the moment. No. Um, you spent years inside financial services industry. What's the biggest ways the system has historically misunderstood women?

Pascale Helyar 5:55

Um in so many ways. But you mentioned it in your introduction, and so I will take that cue. Yeah. Um, and I'll talk about women and superannuation. Oh, yes. Yeah. In order to do that, I'm going to need to set the stage a little bit. Um, and I'm also going to just give a quick recap for our listeners on what superannuation is. Yes, please do. So, and the reason I do this is um there is such a gross misconception and misunderstanding of the superannuation industry that literally, whenever I walk into a room and somebody introduces me and says she's going to talk to you about superannuation, I feel the life sucked out of the auditorium. And I see shoulders slump. And people, God, must she? And and so I I take it as a somewhat of a personal challenge every day to help people understand that actually superannuation is this incredible vehicle for wealth. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be complex, it can be really simple.

Dom Hind 7:10

But it also doesn't have to be boring.

Pascale Helyar 7:11

And that's what I think people that's right, it is. But and that comes from a like just a gross misunderstanding around it. Yeah. And the reason that there is a gross misunderstanding is because there's no understanding and there's no education. Yeah. And there is no such thing as super school. No. Which I would love to introduce. That would be amazing. But um, who would turn up? Yeah. Um everyone should because everyone should ever. Well, and this is why m one of my new pet projects is how do we get financial education back onto the uh curriculums, onto the school curriculum. Yeah. With all that said, let's do a quick recap of what super is. Yes. Okay. So superannuation is your money. Now, I've had many arguments with many people over decades on this, but um, there's again coming back to misconceptions, it doesn't belong to the government. It doesn't belong to your employer. It is your money. And in the same way that you have a savings account, you know, present day, you're saving for a car, a holiday, whatever it might be, you need to think of your superannuation as your bank account for future you. Yes. So that 12% that you're putting or that your employer puts on your behalf into your superannuation, that's your that's your savings for future you for you to live on when you retire. The third thing I'd like to outline is that outside of any property uh you may own, yes, that's getting harder for all of us. Yes, your superannuation is likely to be your greatest asset. Yeah. Because hopefully when you retire, you will have hundreds of thousands of dollars of of wealth with which to retire on. Um and can you say that about a share portfolio? No, not many people can. So that's that's it is your biggest asset outside property, and that's why you need to treat it with the respect that it that it merits. Yeah. Um the last thing I would say is that superannuation is incredibly tax advantageous. Absolutely. So now just to unpack that a little. Um, so we've all got our you know marginal tax rates, and we know that you know they can be 17% or 30% or 45%, depends where you are in your, you know, in your earnings. Um, but superannuation is only taxed at 15%. So let's say your marginal tax rate is 45%, let's say you're a larger earner, then that means any money going into your super already has a 30% uplift. Yeah. Which is so exciting. Yeah, it is amazing. And then when I when I explain this to people, they're they're you know, they're looking at me going, well, is this magic? Like what why, why? And then I have to remind people that we used to be a defined benefit system where the government or your employee used to pay for your retirement. Yeah. But with the advent of superannuation in 1992, that made us a defined contribution system where we are all, each Aussie, we're funding our own retirement. And the reason that the government has built in such incredible tax advantages to the superannuation system is to encourage us to build as much super as we can so that we are all less reliant on the government in our retirement and old age. Yeah. So that's the super system. Yes. Boiled down. Yes, but nuts and bolts. Now the supersystem is fantastic. It has put Australia on the world stage in a way that we actually can't even begin to comprehend the strength of the share market. Yes, but what other country has every employee's uh, you know, 12% of their earnings going into the system month after month, year after year? The annuity is incredible. And the size of the industry is $4.5 trillion. Yes. So when you know Spain wants to build a new bridge, or um America wants to, North America wants to build uh, you know, shopping centres in Hawaii, they come to Australia and the superannuation system to fund that because we literally now have so much wealth that we can no longer invest it in Australia just domestically, right? So other countries come to us for funding from from from our from the superannuation system because we need to invest that money.

Dom Hind 12:07

Which that in itself is pretty amazing.

Why Super Fails Women

Pascale Helyar 12:10

That's it's we're only 27 million people. Yeah. And we have such incredible wealth, which is why now other countries are looking to emulate um what we're doing. Because it is globally recognized as being such a success. But that said, the superannuation system was not designed with women in mind. Yes. What do I mean by that? Well, uh, super is uh uh works brilliantly if you um earn like a man and you uh you know at a with a man's wage and you work full-time for the entire length of your career. Yes. But but nothing in the sentence I've just said but uh is applicable to the majority of women. Yeah. So there are three key factors in what we call the gender super gap. The gender super gap is the difference between the average of of what a woman retires with and what a man retires with in Australia. And that gap is now 25%. Wow. So um, and when I started talking about this over a decade ago, the gap was 42%. Wow. So we are making progress, that is good, but we're still not there. Um and okay, so let's say um a a woman retire a man retires with $300,000. Yeah. Uh the average woman will retire with $225. Yes. Why is she retiring with so much less? Three key factors. The gender pay gap. Yeah. Um, where it it's not, and I just want to clarify, the gender pay gap is not an expression of a man and a woman doing the same job and her earning less. It's an expression of how many women are in the workforce, in particular industries, et cetera. But where it flows through is that the average man in Australia, for every dollar he earns, the average woman earns 78 cents. Yes, right. And over the course of a year, that difference becomes $28,000 in pay. Yeah. So imagine the impact on your super. Yes. Now, the second uh point I made, which is that men work for the yeah, full-time for the entire length of their career. Well, women have career breaks. Yes. Most typically for parental leave. Yes. But, and I think we're of the same vintage, um there are other factors why you need to step out of a woman particularly tends to step out of the workforce. Number one, looking after our elderly parents. What do you do when you've exhausted your carers' leave? Yes. You have to scale back on work. Yeah. And so when you reduce your your you know, work from five days to four, that impacts your super contributions accordingly. But there's another really um more powerful uh salient reason, which is the effects of menopause and perimenopause. Yeah, right. Oh, really? Yes. Yes. So a couple of years ago, MetLife released a study um on the you know, women of you know, this stage being imp impacted by the effects, and maybe it's you know, uh uncontrollable hot flashes or just extreme fatigue or whatever. Yes. Or being too honest. But 38% of women they surveyed reported that they had to scale back their working hours because of the effects of this massive life change.

Dom Hind 15:48

Wow.

Pascale Helyar 15:49

So if you're you know, if you're struggling to get out of bed or you you don't know if you're going to be able to hold it together in a meeting because of the hot flashes or whatever it was. Yeah, anxiety, depression, etc. Um, if you're again, if you're scaling your work back from five days to four or even three super contributions as well.

Dom Hind 16:07

And it's interesting because it's like at the end of the super contributions as well. So if it's like in that 45 to 65, when that's that last last bit, like that's another dip right into your super contributions. Exactly.

Pascale Helyar 16:22

So if we think about it's a typical woman, she might step out of the workforce to have children. Let's say that happens at 30. Yeah, using round numbers. And then maybe she comes back into the workforce, age 40, but then at 50, she has to step out or scale back again because of these damn hormonal changes, right? Wow. Oh, plus, you know, elderly parents.

Dom Hind 16:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who you need to care, like just the life the life caring issues. That's right. What impact? I mean, that that's a huge impact because it means then that there's such a reliance on you know, there's so many people like just staying in something that they don't want to be in because they're not prepared for something later in life. Yes. Like that's a huge thing that this super that's supposed to make us all feel great and be able to be independent. Yes. But it also makes you scared or a bit worried and anxious. Yeah. I know we were having a conversation yesterday in the office where one of our team, his wife's just had a baby and he's saying, I need to top up her super so that at least she feels like she's being compensated. Compensated while she actually is on maternity leave. Yes. Because that's another big thing as well, is that when you're on maternity leave, the super stops.

Pascale Helyar 17:40

Absolutely. There there is the um government has now the pay half parental leave. Yes, yes, that is a very new event. Yes. After decades of lobbying. Yeah. That is only just coming in now. Um and but yes, it's for 16 weeks, I think that's it. Which is look better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. But um what I I fully agree, like the the the male partner in any or the the partner in any relationship needs to be splitting their super with their spouse in recognition of the all of the unpaid labour that she's undertaking. Yeah.

Dom Hind 18:20

Yeah, there is a lot of unpaid labour. Um do you think that we've been set up or the system has been set up in a way that we can change it so that women feel like that they are having their say or that they can claw back or get back in with their super? I think probably the difference in, you know, you talking about the the gap in super from 42 to 25. I mean, that's a big thing. Yes. Is it education that is really helping with that, or what are the factors?

Pascale Helyar 18:52

Well, uh a decade ago when I started talking about this, I mean, no one knew about the gender super gap.

Dom Hind 18:58

Yeah, okay.

Pascale Helyar 18:59

And and a few people had heard of the gender pay gap back then. Yeah, yeah. But now most people are aware of the gender pay gap, and some have heard of the gender super gap. Okay. Um, and that so I have personally witnessed this shift in the audiences I speak to over that time. So there is a growing recognition of these sorts of issues, but still by and large, you know, the the awareness of the gender super gap or um the the drivers of it. Yeah, you know, oh well, if I take time out of the workforce, have kids, then you know, Pete. They're not making that connection. They're not join uh joining those adults. Yeah. Um, so yes, it does come down to education, but let's let's think about who's educating. You've got the the super funds with their word salad of compliance. Yes, right. Yeah. Um, where and who should be doing it then?

Dom Hind 19:59

Well, this this is where is that your job? Well, I see you'd put your hand up all right.

Pascale Helyar 20:06

Well, you know, another w another response at the dinner party is I say I'm a financial educator. Yes. Um and and because you've got more and more financial educators slash influencers, whatever you want to call us, um, on social media, you know, like Instagram and TikTok and Facebook, that's where people are consuming their information. Because they're not going to read their super funds website. No. But you know, you you've they're seeing more and more content. Yes. And that's how people are learning about this or that or whatever it might be, is is through social media. So that's definitely certainly where some of the education is coming from.

Dom Hind 20:47

Yes, social and then the misinformation. But see, this is where it is. You do need to take ownership. I think if you reposition super as being your largest asset outside of property, it helps just reframe it. Yes. Because people don't really care.

Pascale Helyar 21:04

Well, they don't understand. Yeah. And and I back to my original point, and they don't they don't understand kind of its purpose. They they think that peop that other people are taking their incarnation. They might they don't understand that it this is actually theirs. They don't un understand that, you know, well, age 30, maybe you shouldn't be in a balanced fund. Maybe you should be you've got time when you're like being in a growth fund. Yeah. Um, and it's because there is this absolutely key missing piece of education around financial literacy.

Confidence Gaps And Financial Language

Dom Hind 21:42

Um in high schools. Yeah, even that. I was talking to someone the other day about their super and they hadn't even put their tax file number in. And I'm like, what do you mean? Do you need to put your tax file number in so that you can actually maximize or minimize the amount of tax that you're paying on your super? Yes. Anyway, so that Was one thing that puts your tax file number in your super. So just changing gear a little bit, you've had a fascinating career across venture capital, fintech, financial services. What originally drew you into the financial world?

Pascale Helyar 22:20

It's a very funny story. And my undergrad was an arts degree. Oh wow. Right. Not co not commerce, no, not commerce, not economics, no, nothing. Um and I I did a I did psych and uh French as my two majors. Okay, good. And my honours degree, I couldn't write about what I wanted to for the psych, but I could do it in French. So I I opted to do honours in French. Great. Yes. I uh and you're thinking, how the actual does this relate to getting to finance? There is a three. Yeah. Um and in my honours year, um, I was the president of the French Society at Sydney Uni. Right. And we the society had always been sponsored by BNP, the Mocnist. Yes, yes. And so I went to them and said, Oh, hello, I'm Pascal. And would you be so kind as to support us for another year and these sort of the activities and da-da-da-da-da? And built a nice relationship with the general manager of BNP, so much so that at the end of when I'd finished my honest degree, and I'm thinking, what the what I don't know what I'm gonna do. But um, I went to him and said, Well, I guess you've seen what I've capable of. Um, are there any roles? And there was a role as a junior marketing and comms person within BNP. Right. And that's how I found myself in finance. Wow. So I was doing marketing and comms, and at the, you know, the the BNP then merged with Paribald, which is another French bank. So I did the Australian and New Zealand merger comms and did all that. Um and then I thought, oh, I you know, I I I don't know if working for a French bank is a long-term game for me. So um by this stage I then moved uh into BT funds management, and that led on to JP Morgan asset management, right, and so on and so forth. Okay, right.

Dom Hind 24:41

So the rest is history. Yes. Yeah. Yes. The arts degree, uh the honours uh in French led to a job in finance. Yeah, I know. It's the weekly windy road. Yeah. And when throughout that journey, when did you realize that women were being underserved?

Pascale Helyar 25:03

Um I went to a school here in Sydney where I I and we were told all the time that girls can do anything. Yes. And so we all left school thinking girls can do anything. Yeah. And we all got a bit of a shock when we got into uni and and and the workforce to realize that yes, we can do any everything, but but other people don't necessarily see that. Yeah. So I think that was the first realization. But the second realization, the the big one really, was um after I'd left Sydney and gone to live in the UK uh for just under eight years, and I came back to Sydney and I found that Sydney had not changed.

Dom Hind 25:47

Yeah.

Pascale Helyar 25:48

And in fact, the in during the time I'd been away, it seemed like Sydney had gone and Australia had gone backwards. And particularly um around gender equality and particularly around women's finances. And I started chatting to my friends about um this, that, and super, and oh gosh, I'm trying to get my super back over from the UK, it's really difficult. And uh and then I just became grow, you know, increasingly aware that uh there was there was this problem. Um, and I thought, okay, well, maybe it's just my friend set. Yeah, yeah. Um, and then because I was now in the startup world and one startup led to another, and one of those other startups was the Australian Gender Equality Council, where I ended up being director of communications for three years, and then I was thrown in the deep end of understanding just how uh Australia had regressed across so many aspects of life during the time that I was out of the country, and how superannuation particular was in my book one of the greatest disservices that we had done or the country had d made uh towards 51% of the population.

Dom Hind 27:06

Yeah, okay. Wow. Okay, interesting is it's it's funny when you do go away and then come back and go, oh, nothing much has changed. Or in your case, oh, nothing much has changed. And some things are back.

Pascale Helyar 27:18

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was it was really quite shocking to me.

Dom Hind 27:22

So um many women are incredibly capable, yes, uh, but still feel intimidated by money, investing, yes, and financial language. Yes. Why?

Pascale Helyar 27:39

There are so many reasons for this. Um I f funny you should ask me this question. I was uh preparing for a keynote a few weeks ago, and I actually did some research and looked into all the various reasons why women feel that they can't handle money and there were 42 separate reasons. 42 documented, right? Ranging from um culture to uh distrust and to fatty or to overwhelm, to lack of confidence, to lack of education, um, to um you know identity issues, feelings of worth, self-esteem, and so on. It was an extraordinarily long list. Um and in comparison, I just for giggles, yeah, yeah, I did some research on the reasons for a man and far fewer. I think there were 18. Oh, okay, under half. Yes. Yes. And so that right there is very symptomatic, I think. But it's also very telling. It's very telling.

Dom Hind 28:57

And the level of confidence that irrespective of what of it what it is, yeah, is just not there. And confidence comes from knowledge, yes, because knowledge actually does give you power.

Pascale Helyar 29:07

Yes, but also confidence comes from doing. Uh yes, yes. And this is when I present, I I show I show the 42 reasons for a woman and the 18 reasons for a man. And then and then I say, listen, I get it. I understand all of this, but guess what? You just gotta put your big girl pants on and do it. Yes. Because the greatest disservice you can do to yourself from a financial perspective is to do nothing. Yeah, or bury your head in the sands. Right. Yeah, of course. Because if if you don't take action, yeah, you are going to end up with a with the gender soup again.

Dom Hind 29:46

Yeah.

Pascale Helyar 29:47

You are not going to have any savings. You are not going to etc. etc. So the the best, and that's why when it comes to superannuation specifically, I have just one rule for women, which is just add as much as you can, as early as you can. Yeah. Like just cut through the jargon. Don't worry too much about the stock markets, just add as much as you can to your super as early as you can.

Dom Hind 30:14

So that's a great message for like early 20s to 30s when before the kids you just go just add everything. Like health leather, because it's in a tax advantage environment.

Pascale Helyar 30:28

And you've got the beauty of well, if you're in in your early 20s, you're gonna have like 40, 45, maybe 50 years. Compound, of course. Compound interest, which is so exciting, and your money's your money's making you money. Like, why wouldn't you have the bondage of that? But um, so if I ever write another book, it'll be targeted for the young 20-year-olds. Okay. And I'm gonna title it how to be a millionaire.

Dom Hind 30:53

Yeah, right.

Pascale Helyar 30:53

Because that's all they can do. Yeah, yeah. But that's all you need to do is make put as much into your super as early as you can, and you'll end up being a millionaire. Yeah, that's it.

Dom Hind 31:04

That is that's a good thing to do. Um, the knowledge gap, yes. How do like I know super funds can't really do it. The government can't really do it. The influencers are trying, yeah, but the trust around that is what what else can we do?

The Financial Vaccination Idea

Pascale Helyar 31:27

What else can we do? Well, so this is where the government also has to put its big boy pants on. Yeah, yeah. Or big person pants on. Big person, yeah. And re-implement financial literacy into the curriculum. Yeah. So we did used to have it until 2019, when budget cuts meant it was removed. Right. And because of that step, we are now seeing um that the rates of financial literacy have gone backwards across men and women. Right. So both sexes, but also the difference between the sexes is greater than it was. Yeah. Okay. So school and you know, the final years of school um is is really where it's at. Okay. Just to be given the basics, I actually have quite a radical proposal. Yes, yes. Are we going to debut it here? Which is because I've been thinking long and hard about this. Yeah. So let and, you know, my my kids are almost 16. And and I'm, you know, the thought of them getting into a car and learning how to drive falls me with terror, but we've raised ourselves. Yeah. Um, but you know, they're coming to the, you know, the the age and stage of their life where they get, they they start adulting. Yes. Right. So they're getting ready to learn how to drive a car. Now we need a they need a license to drive a car. They're in a few years, they're going to be able to vote and change the political direction of this country, right? Why? In the same way that we have a national vaccination program, which is actually remarkably effective with something like 94, 95%. Yeah. Why don't we have a financial vaccination program where as part of becoming an adult, we they have to undertake some basic financial education online in some course or whatever. And then in the same way that we renew our driving license every 10 years, you have to do the same thing. You have to do the same.

Dom Hind 33:48

Well, it's in with that, that's a very interesting way of looking at it. Because even with the uh cybersecurity at the moment, so insurance companies, and I know that we've had to do this, but for the business, we have to get all of our staff trained on cybersecurity so that it can actually help reduce our premiums. Right. Um, but it's the same sort of thing that if there was a financial training or learning literacy, yes, that that would actually help their life. Absolutely.

Pascale Helyar 34:23

Get to understand their life anyway. Yes, exactly. Because we like your your financial well-being is the is it perhaps the biggest driver of your adult life? Oh, absolutely. Because everything ties back to it. It does. Your career, your your retirement funds, yes, um, where you know what where you live, what what happens when you partner up and you get married or or whatever. Yeah. But we're not it's like send it's like putting my kids without any theory or practice behind the wheel of a car and going, please drive to Melbourne. Yeah, you know. It's a credit card. Yeah, off you go. Frankly terrifying. But this is actually what we're doing. Yeah. So why are we not giving them some basic training and asking them, age 16, 18, whatever, to think about, okay, well, you know, what age do I want to retire at? I know it's 60 years away, but you've got to start thinking about these things. Yeah. Um, and you know, do do you want to own property? Do you not? Do you want to own a car? Do you not? Because all these decisions that you make, it's a bit like choose your own adventure, right? Yeah. But all the things that you want determine how you your next move. So let's ask them to start thinking about it, give them some basic building blocks around, okay, well, kids, you can't just staff, you know, stash your cash under the mats because you know, well, inflation's at, you know, 4%. Um and you know, the cost of living is going to outrun that. So just give them some basic training. Yeah. Um, and ask them to understand the principles and the basics of investing and and of super. And then in the same way, when you, you know, renew your driving license and redo that you update your your roadmap, right?

Simple Actions To Take Today

Dom Hind 36:13

Yeah. Um, and I think that's a great way of getting the confidence with the kids. Um, you said before about women just doing. What are some of the things that they just need to do? So something that Tracy Hall said to me, which was amazing, was check your statement weekly. Like, you know, just go in and check your bank account. And it's a fascinating how many subscriptions that you have that you don't actually use. It's scary. It is, isn't it? You just go, you forget, and you're like, oh well, yeah, what do I need to do? Yes. So what what are some of the practical things and easy that you can just do? As a woman? As a woman.

Pascale Helyar 36:55

Number one, yes. Check your super balance. Okay, yes. So if and I Tracy's a friend. Yes. So if Tracy is advocating checking your statement, which I fully agree with, your bank statement, if you're doing that for the now, check your bank statement for future you. I'm super. Yeah. How often do you do that though? How often do I pass it? How how how often should you check your statement? Well, this actually, this is a great question given volatility of markets at the moment. Uh, don't check it daily. Yeah. Because you will just terrify yourself. But I think I think quarterly is reasonable. Quarterly. Um and now that we've got the introduction of introduction of payday super. Yes, that is. Which is so exciting. Yeah, it's so much better. Um, then maybe you want to check it monthly. And I would actually really strongly encourage people to be checking it monthly because in the same way that you know you check your pay goes into your bank account. Yeah. You also want to be checking that your superannuation amount on your pay slip, let's say it's a thousand dollars, is also going into your super account. And I know that sounds like the great, like one of the most obvious things in the world, but historically this has not been the case.

Dom Hind 38:14

Well, and this is where one of my pet peeves is when companies don't pay their people super. Yeah. And they go under, particularly in hospitality, they go under and they've left all of the super unpaid, which is basically they've stolen from all of their employees. Exactly. And it just annoys me. So I think that's a a good one.

Pascale Helyar 38:33

Well, the size of your annoyance of unpaid uh non-SG compliance is $3.6 billion.

Dom Hind 38:43

Yes. What annually, or just that's just in a total value.

Pascale Helyar 38:48

Yeah. So that means that Aussies like you and I and Tracy and Maria and they have been thinking that that $1,000 and their payslip on this was going to their super, but actually it has not been. Wow. $3.6 billion. That's a massive amount. Yes. So that is why you want to be checking your superannuation. Yes. Either quarterly or monthly. Yeah, okay. Just check that it's it's making its way across. Now there's a variety of reasons why companies have not paid the SG. Um some are legit, some are nefarious.

Dom Hind 39:27

Yes.

Pascale Helyar 39:27

But as you say at the end of the day, that's money that the employers have stolen from their employees. Yeah.

Dom Hind 39:34

It's not their money. It's not their money. It's the employees.

Pascale Helyar 39:37

Exactly. So that's homework task number one. Yeah, and that's great. Super simple. Yes. Super simple. Yeah. The second thing you can do as a woman, if you're in the workforce, I'm going to give two recommendations. If you're in the workforce, um start salary sacrifice. Okay.

Dom Hind 39:56

Mm-hmm.

Pascale Helyar 39:57

Now, salary sacrifice is when you contribute part of your pre-tax pay into your server. Yep. So all you have to do is write a five-minute email. Yeah. Maybe there's a template. There's a template. Yeah.

Dom Hind 40:11

Oh yeah.

Pascale Helyar 40:12

I've seen a template. Yes. And the the reason you would want to do that is because not only are you, is your employer then sweeping your additional monies. Note, this is in addition to SG. Yeah, yes. Okay, this does not replace SG. Um, that's the mandatory employer paid component. Yes. This is you as an employee, this is you saying, I will um sacrifice $200 a month, whatever, uh, of my pre-tax pay, and the employer makes that happen. Yes. Um it's limited to $30,000 a year. $30,000 a year. Yes. But what what you're doing is not only are you boosting your super and you're getting out of your own way in doing so. Very important, um, but you're also reducing your income tax payable now. Yes. Which happy days. So um, so that's the second thing I would do. Now, for those who are not in the workforce, yeah, I would encourage them heavily, heavily to look at the government co-contribution.

Dom Hind 41:22

Okay.

Pascale Helyar 41:23

This is a little known free money hack.

Dom Hind 41:27

And is that means tested?

Pascale Helyar 41:29

Yes. So it the um the the limits have just changed. I'm going to go with it somewhere around the $45,000 mark. Yeah. So if you earn less than $45,000 a year, um, which, you know, if you're a stay-at-home mum, yeah, is that's you. Um, then if you contribute $1,000 of your own money, post-tax money, yeah. So maybe it's come from your savings, or maybe there's been some bonus or windfall, or you've, I don't know, you've sold a couple of handbags on eBay, whatever. Yeah. Um, if you contribute a thousand dollars of your own money into your superannuation in any single tax year, the government will contribute up to a further $500. Oh wow. Free money, peeps. Wow. Free money. And I actually did the maths on that. If you if, you know, we think about a woman age 36, stay at home mum, and she does that for the next um 30 years, yeah, she's going to end up with an extra, it was in the region of $70,000. Wow. By the time she retires. And that's not even her money, like just a gift. It's just a gift. So they're my tip number two for the working and the non-working. Um the third, um the third thing I would advocate for women to do is to set up a direct debit into and just start an ETF, an investment ETF. Yeah. Just in their own name. Just their name. Not shared. Yeah, yeah. Just their name. Um, and set up a direct debit into it. So $50 a week or $50, whatever you can afford. Um, and the reason I would encourage that is because then that becomes over time, that becomes your emergency food. Yeah.

Divorce Myths And Protecting Yourself

Dom Hind 43:22

Yep. I do that for my kids, but not, yeah, not myself. Yeah, for my kids, because it's like it's you you don't miss it, and it's right. It's just there, and they've got like a nice estate now, and let's hope that they can take advantage of it. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Um, I love those tips, and I do love the checking the super balance. Like it's something that's really easy to do, but not many people do it. No. Let's do a super myth busting moment. Oh, let's do it. What are three things women believe about Simpa super that simply aren't true?

Pascale Helyar 44:02

Um they believe that it's not their money. Yes. When it is. Yeah. They believe, and this is a really important one, ladies, so put your listening ears back on if you if they've fallen off. Um in the event of divorce, do not go with that old adage of she gets the house and he gets the super. Okay. This is incredibly important. Um now one we know one in two marriages ends in divorce. Yeah. So that's you know, we we've got to hope for the best and plan for the worst. Yeah. So the that has been that um mentality of, oh, I'll keep the house and he can have the super, is so damaging for a woman's finances for so many reasons, and I'll explain them. So the gender super gap 25% um in a scenario of uh post-separation, that gender super gap blows out to 113% because he's he's got the super, she's got the house. Right. Yes. And the key mistake that so many women have made and perhaps continue to make with in a separation and divorce is that they only look at the value of his super currently. Yeah. But what they also need to be factoring in is how much super he would have earned had they stayed together. Yeah. So future earnings. Yeah. Now the problem is that um if she keeps the house but she doesn't have any other income, how yeah, how do you how do you manage in life? Yeah. So the um the smarter play is actually to liquidate the house and insist on getting half of the super. Yeah, wow. Yes. Yes. So even if it is going to be unsettling. Even if it is going to be unsettling, but ladies, you can't eat the bricks that surround you. Yeah, true. You can't live off that. No. So that is that is also one of the biggest um myths around super for women. Um and uh related to that, I think a really big uh third myth is that sh um so in that particular scenario, people women don't believe that they are entitled to half.

Dom Hind 46:41

Yeah. It's interesting.

Pascale Helyar 46:44

There's, you know, he's offering, oh, uh I'll I'll give you 25%. Yeah. No, no, no, no. You are, under family law, you are entitled to half.

Dom Hind 46:53

It's interesting then when the husband then comes back and he goes, You're not entitled to half. I paid for that, I worked for that.

Pascale Helyar 47:00

It's like Yes, that's right. It's it's a complete minefield. But thankfully, family law now has improved a lot to recognize women's uh, you know, status. Where the the crunch comes, however, is for a lot of women who find themselves in that situation, is that they don't have the money to engage a lawyer. Right. And so he's lawyered up, she's not. He's his lawyer is sending through these requests of, oh, well, he'll he'll offer you 25%, whatever. She doesn't have the legal resources to say, well, yes, that's right, or no, it's not, or combat it, or whatever it might be. Um, which is why, refer to my earlier point about the emergency funds. Yeah, yeah. At least if you at least, then you've got uh something there. There is also a great tip, um, a great company called Just Fund.

Dom Hind 47:50

I was just about to say that, yes.

Pascale Helyar 47:53

Do you want to explain what Just Fund is, Charlie?

Dom Hind 47:55

Just is Just Fund, it is a facility or a service that actually will allow you to borrow the cost for funding a lawyer. Yes. Whether that is in estate planning or in going through a separation. Yes. Yes, exactly. And they take their fees after this settlement has actually happened. Correct. Rather than expecting anything up front. Correct.

Pascale Helyar 48:22

So that means that the is that right? Yes, that's right. So that means that the woman who has been the state-at-home mum for twenty ten years or whatever and doesn't have uh, you know, funds of her own, uh, she can effectively she's effectively borrowing against her future settlement so that she can fund legal. Yeah. Yeah.

Dom Hind 48:41

Which I think it is a it's a great idea in making sure that at least you do have that fair representation as well. Yes. Although you can also now use uh AI to take the lawyer's letters initially uh base it against family laws in Australia and see what you are actually entitled to. Yes, before even going a lawyering up.

Pascale Helyar 49:03

Absolutely. And I would all always recommend doing because that's effectively you doing your own research. Absolutely. And if you can go into your legal meetings, you know, having done your research, having prepped, and knowing to ask about A, B, and C, you're gonna get so much more out of your lawyer as a result.

Being On Track At 48

Dom Hind 49:20

And you're not gonna be a deer in the headlights, you're actually going to be informed and knowledge. Yeah, knowledge is power. Exactly. Everything comes back to that. Um, if a woman is 48, has kids, a mortgage, maybe has worked uh part-time, what does being on track actually look like for them financially? With her super? Yeah, with her super, with her finances. Like what should she be thinking about? There's less than 20 years until she can tap into that super. What are some of the things that she should be doing?

Pascale Helyar 49:59

I will always say salary sacrifice.

Dom Hind 50:01

Yeah, okay.

Pascale Helyar 50:02

That's that's always say salary sacrifice. Um she should have an emergency fund. Yes. Of her own. Yeah. Even if just 50 bucks a week. Yeah. Um, because you never know what life is going to throw at you. Um and she she has a mortgage. She says one of the most often asked questions I receive is do I pay my mortgage or do I build up my super? And I always say both. And that's not because I'm sitting on the fence. Um it's but it's for very good reason, which is that historically we've always had this um this idea that by the time we reach retirement, we will have had our mortgage paid off. Yes. And that used to be true. Yeah. When people bought their first property at 27. But now the first uh age at which someone purchases a property in Australia is 37. Yeah, right. 37 with a 30-year mortgage, that's 67. Yeah, yeah. We are seeing more and more stats about how retirees are dipping into their superannuation to pay off their mortgage. So I think we just need to accept that we will have a mortgage in some way, shape, or form, as we enter retirement. Yeah. Which then makes building up your superannuation even more important. Yeah. But here's the thing: if you don't start uh adding as much as you can to your super aged 48 or you know, 52, 50, whatever, you're missing. And if you can concentrate all your monies into repaying your mortgage, you're going to miss out on 20 years of compound interest. Yeah. And once you reach 68, you can't reclaim those 20 years of compound interest, which is why I say both.

Living Longer With Less Super

Dom Hind 52:12

Yeah, okay. Okay, good. Um, women live longer than men. Yes. Uh what sorry, how should that change how we think about money? Should we be thinking and making sure that we are protected for the the extra years at the end?

Pascale Helyar 52:29

Absolutely. So for our listeners who aren't aware, the average age of a woman, uh woman's life expectancy in Australia is 88. Yes. Um, the average man is 84. So we're living that bit bit longer. Yeah. But we're also underfunded, aren't we? Yeah. So it's a double whammy. Okay. Big 25% less uh super than men. So um this this is another very actual practical reason why I say women, just add as much as your super to your super as you can from as early as you can, because you're gonna be living longer.

Dom Hind 53:06

Yeah.

Pascale Helyar 53:07

Um, and the other thing I have to say is that what's the downside in having a big super balance? Yeah. Zero. Yeah, yeah. I have too much super. Yeah. Said no one ever.

Dom Hind 53:22

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no one has. No one ever has said that. No. Unless you get to the six million dollar threshold.

Pascale Helyar 53:28

Right. Yeah. Like so, and and that applies to a very small subset of the population. So if if you have m more super in your retirement, so what? That's a good thing, isn't it? It's a great thing. And if you died, you can hand it. Exactly. Or decide it. This is why I've I've never understood the the reluctance on this front around super. But I mean, I I personally, and coming back to something I think we were talking about a little bit um before we started, you know, it comes back to, you know, having enough super and being able to live your third chapter of your life on your terms, comes back, in my case anyway, to one of my core values, which is choice. Yeah. Right. And I want to have choice in my retirement. I do not want to be dictated to in how I live and, you know, whether or not I take that holiday or um, you know, do I have to eat baked beans every day? I don't want to be dictated to by my financial circumstances. Yeah, I do. Because then that is in direct contradiction of my values of choice.

Rapid Fire Rules And Closing Challenge

Dom Hind 54:47

I agree. I agree with that a hundred percent. But choice isn't one of my values, though. Permission is. Yes. Uh okay, so rapid fire round. One financial myth women should stop believing.

Pascale Helyar 55:02

That they can't manage money. Yeah, I think that's a big one. And to start, just to start. Or that he he can manage my money. Yeah. No. And Tracy would have said something similar. Yeah. Women have to take or maintain financial agency.

Dom Hind 55:23

Yes. Yep. Okay, good. Uh, one thing every woman should understand about super. It's awesome.

Pascale Helyar 55:32

Yeah.

Dom Hind 55:34

It's gonna be the biggest asset outside of your house. Outside of property. Yeah.

Pascale Helyar 55:38

It is your biggest asset. So treat it like help it grow, nourish it, love to learn it. Yeah. It's not this big hairy monster waiting to jump out at you from the shadows. It need you need to wrap your arms around it and make it your best friend. Yeah. If you look after it, it's going to look after you.

Dom Hind 55:57

Yeah, well, that's a great way of thinking about it. One thing women should check in their super today. Oh no, the balance. Yeah.

Pascale Helyar 56:05

The balance, but check that. Um go back, look at your pay slips, and check that if you've had, I don't know, uh 50 pay slips, that there are 50 correlating entries in your superannuation account. Yeah. Um if you're missing. Although some of them can be prior to payday super, it could be paid quarterly. Uh yes, but that's what I'm referring to. Yeah. If it's uh because that was actually the best, they were the best conditions for malfeasance for importance. Absolutely. Yeah. Right. Well, because people were not look paying attention. But if there are if you can find your pay slips and if you know there are 50 pay slips saying that you received, you were paid, apparently, $1,000 into superannuation, go to your super account and check that there are 50 contributions matching the same summary.

Dom Hind 56:56

Okay, good. Um, one money habit that changes everything.

Pascale Helyar 57:04

Prioritizing your finances. So particularly as as women, yeah. We I think we were taught, or maybe we learned that you pay the bills and then the groceries and the da da da, and then savings are last. Yes. We need to flip that script. Yeah, okay. But because when you prioritize paying yourself first, investing in you first, then but then you just make everything else work.

Dom Hind 57:33

Yeah. I think that's a great way of thinking about it. Um, one thing women underestimate about their financial power.

Pascale Helyar 57:46

We are 51% of the population. The intergenerational wealth transfer is happening right now. Yeah. Women are set to inherit $3.4 trillion. Yeah. Trillion. So not only do I tell women that they can do it, but they're gonna have to do it. Yeah because they're about to inherit, or they're already in the process of inheriting $3.4 trillion. And I know that can sound terrifying, but there is no reason that women can't do it. Women actually make better investors than men because of their attitudes to risk and and so on. Um it's just a question uh of just uh starting. Yeah, just learning. You will make mistakes, it won't be perfect, but uh in the learning and the doing, you will improve. Yeah, but um start small, but start start small and learn and figure it out, and um that's how you will be become your best financial advocate.

Dom Hind 59:06

Yeah, okay, good. One sentence every woman should say to herself about money.

Pascale Helyar 59:13

Money is not the destination, money is the journey.

Dom Hind 59:19

Mmm, okay, so love the journey. Love the journey, yeah. Uh, your mood in one word right now. Upbeat. Yeah. And if you were gonna get a tattoo, what tattoo would you get?

Pascale Helyar 59:35

Or if I were to get nailed, exactly. What would you do? It would say, does it serve me? Oh, and why would it say does it serve you? I learnt I learnt those four words quite late in life, yeah, only a few years ago. I really, really wish I had learned them sooner. Yeah. Um I think I would have particularly in personal relationships, I would have stopped tolerating bullshit a long time ago. But, you know, it's not just about personal relationships. It's like those four words are the litmus for everything. Yeah. Do I want a hamburger for lunch? Yeah. Does it serve me? No. I won't. Do I want to go out with that person who's been harassing me, you know, to catch up for drinks for a while? Does it serve me? No. It actually becomes an incredible way to simplify life.

Dom Hind 1:00:37

Oh, I agree. That I think that having like a some sort of mantra, mine is permission to pause, um, with your values underpinning it, it does help you make better decisions. Absolutely. Just wish I'd known earlier.

Pascale Helyar 1:00:52

Yeah. But now I share it with you all.

Dom Hind 1:00:56

Um, what's the one truth about women and money that the finance industry still hasn't fully caught up with?

Pascale Helyar 1:01:05

I think I think it the finance industry, and by by that I I mean financial advisors, wealth managers, you know, superannuation funds, etc. I think it treats women as second-class citizens. And I think women unwittingly play to that persona because of the 42 reasons around why women uh don't feel they can handle money. So I think it's actually unfortunately a perfect storm where the financial industry, you know, talks to the man but not the woman. Yeah. Right. Or um, you know, maybe the couple goes together to the wealth manager and and it's the the guy doing all the talking and she doesn't speak up because she doesn't feel confident or what have you. Yeah. So I think it's a perfect storm of the the industry considers women to be second-class citizens, and then women inadvertently reinforce that concept.

Dom Hind 1:02:07

Yeah.

Pascale Helyar 1:02:07

Okay.

Dom Hind 1:02:08

So knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, knowledge and doing. Yeah, knowledge and doing. Yeah. Okay, good. Okay, last question. Um, I'm nearly turning 50 in just under two years. Yeah. What's one thing that you would recommend that I do that pushes me, challenges me, that's within your circle of uh knowledge and education that you think I should be doing before I turn 50? And don't ask you.

Pascale Helyar 1:02:40

I know what my I know what my super balance is. Yeah. Okay, and um and I'm going to assume also the other things, right? Yes. That you have an emergency fund or yes, and that you are doing salary sacrifice, yes. Or a version of. Yes. Um, but if you want um an extra challenge, I would say start investing. Okay. Um so even though I have worked in asset management for so much of my life, um, you know, the fund, the the fund managers, they were always like the godlike beings, right? That used to walk the halls. And I never had the confidence. I didn't underst I I understood I understood markets, I understood why they went up and down and sideways and whatnot. But it wasn't until I started my own investment account with my $50 or whatever. Yeah. And I started, yes, I could select um their portfolios, but I thought I actually want to challenge myself. I want to see if I can do this.

Dom Hind 1:03:56

Yeah, right.

Pascale Helyar 1:03:57

And so I have been learning by doing. Yeah. And um a couple of months ago, I invested in gold and fuel and food. Great. Because I thought I I think I can see how I can see the the way this is going to pan out. And so at a time when like the ASX 200 is, you know going down, my portfolio performance is actually up. Yeah, great. And I am so proud to be able to say that. And hey, I didn't get here overnight. Like it's taken me a couple years to figure out all this sort of stuff because I'm, you know, changing the allocation of my portfolio. And, you know, I'm thinking, okay, well, you know, obviously there's this massive fuel shortage now, but that is actually going to accelerate renewables in the long term because we've all gone, holy hair, we need to do that. So I'm going to carve out a little sub-portfolio for renewables. And so I'm thinking strategically and globally now in a way I didn't know that I could.

Dom Hind 1:05:07

Yeah.

Pascale Helyar 1:05:07

Because I set myself that challenge. And so it's your money.

Dom Hind 1:05:10

Yeah. And that's that's funny, because I mean, I do have, yes, and I don't do it. I get someone else to do it where I should actually be doing it because it does give myself an interest in what is actually going on. Yes. And it does challenge you to think about okay, well, steel prices are up, renewables are gonna count. Like it gives you something else to be thinking about. That is my challenge to you. Okay, great. I'll go calm some out and do it. But it's so easy now. That's like I'm just so like you're so risk pro.

Pascale Helyar 1:05:48

Like, I'd just go, all in, all in on black. Start honestly, that's what I did. I started Smen and I learned what, and I'd look at my not daily, yeah, but I'd look at my portfolio, like my. So we can go, okay, well, why? I don't understand why is that stock down? Yeah. And then, and then I might ask Chat GPS, yeah, why? And it would, and I go, okay. And I I understand that. Right. So it's been through doing. Yes. And understanding, oh, I'm I'm overweight uranium, whatever. Um, and okay, I need to trim that back. Yeah, okay. To so it's not dragging my portfolio down. Yeah. And so I'm I'm I looked at my my results, you know, over the last week and went, oh, go you.

Dom Hind 1:06:34

SX down, Pascal up. Yay. Amazing. Okay. All right. Pascal, thank you so much for this conversation. Um, I know super can be dry, but I think repositioning it so that you are actually thinking it about it as your biggest asset outside property. Yes. It does make you want to know more. Well, it makes me want to know more, definitely. Um and money is not just numbers. No, it is about freedom and your freedom to choose and to make choices now, but also later in life. Freedom to leave situations that you don't want to be in. Absolutely. Freedom to design the next chapter and make it all on your terms, exactly. Which that's it's a tool to make sure that you are actually living a great full life. And the truth is no one apart from you is coming to sort it out.

Pascale Helyar 1:07:35

Absolutely. There is no night and shiny on it.

Dom Hind 1:07:38

There's no night and shiny on it.

Pascale Helyar 1:07:39

No, you have to do it.

Dom Hind 1:07:40

You are your night. Yes. And you've just got to do. Do and learn. Big girl pants. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, because the moment that we understand it, we can actually take the power back. Yes. And financial independence doesn't happen by accident. No. It happens when we start to actually plan for it. So if you're listening right now, and maybe today will be the day that you actually do start being a little bit inquisitive or open up your super account and see how much your balance is or where your funds are actually being diverted in what fund. And it's to do it today, not next week, not next year, now, because now we've actually got time on our side. Yes. And the more that women understand about money, the more everything changes. Absolutely. Pascal, thank you very much for your time. I will put all of your books, your wisdom, your links to everything in the show notes. Um, and if this episode has resonated with you or someone that you know, please make sure you share it because fuck, I'm nearly 50 and isn't it amazing?