So… When Did HR’s Job Get This Complicated?

HR used to be seen as a support function. Now it sits in the middle of strategy, culture, transformation, and sometimes crisis. In many organisations across Asia, the people function has quietly moved from policy enforcer to business partner, and in some cases, to board-level influencer.

In this episode, Rich sits down with Victoria for an honest conversation about what’s really happening inside HR. They talk about the shift from operational to strategic, what it takes to get senior executives to genuinely care about the people side of change, and why HR leaders today need commercial instincts as much as emotional intelligence. It’s a grounded look at the reality of HR in Asia right now, and what the next chapter could look like.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome back to Work Right with Rich, the show where we get into the honest and filtered side of what really takes it to make work well work. I'm Richard Farmer, your host and managing director of CXC. So, everyone, and I'm to all the listeners, we're a few months into the year now. Most of you have got it gone past your planning mode, your goals are set, expectations are clearer, and you'll probably feel the pressure starting to build as the year gets going. When the thing starts moving inside your organization, and we're all used to that, I'm sure. Whether it's growth, restructuring, transformation, HR usually finds itself right in the center of it. And we know we always call them in where we need them most. People function has really quietly grown, and now it's gone from a policy enforcer to a business partner, and in some cases to a board-level influencer. My guest today knows that seat well. Victoria has worked across established firms, global and high-growth startups. She's led HR teams from across mortal regions. So, Victoria Bethleyhem, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Thank you, Richard Farmer. Pleasure to be on your show.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

It's great to have you on board.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

I don't think there's a more exciting time to be in HR, Richard. And a lot of what you just said then really resonated with me because it has evolved just so tremendously. Certainly in the 20 years that I've been working in it, I think it's at the best place it's been in a long time. I don't think we're fully fully mature as a sector, and I'll I'll expand what I'm what I mean by that in a moment. But I think there has been a change. You you talked about it a moment ago around going from policy and governance and operations focus to a much more strategic, influential uh person at the table, which up until not that long ago, a lot of organizations weren't inviting HR to the table. And there's a lot more of that now than we've ever seen before.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Let's dig a bit deeper into that. You made some very good points of the evolving HR from your career going from the business to HR, I think is one of the most critical things in your skill set. But let's get down to the actual real nitty-gritty, if you want to say, is what is the biggest shift in identity for HR? What is the change you've seen?

SPEAKER_01 2:14

The change that I've seen is that I think the portfolio of HR has gone from being very designing frameworks, ensuring compliance, policies, delivering and reacting on operational requirements to being much more influential around performance, around leadership, culture, and certainly that um driving capability that ends in results. And results could be productivity, it could be financial, it could be market share taking, et cetera, et cetera. There's different definitions of what results look like. But that's been the fundamental shift that I've been seeing over the years. I think instead of being a supporter of the business, it's an influencer in the business now. And that's the exciting part for me. Um I should say it really stems from HR leaders being much more commercially savvy and focused than ever before, which you were just noting a minute ago. So commercial fluency, if you can describe it like that. Yeah. And really being an a team that is willing to challenge. No, yeah, I like using the express expression um positively challenging people. Yeah. And I do that all the time with senior leaders that I'm talking to. So it's not about facilitation, but heavy participation.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

I really like the way you put that heavy participation. Now, with HR coming to the foreground, do you think that is client-centric in terms of it's certain companies that have that metric to push HR into the into the front? Or do you feel that that's actually more down to the individual? Or is it just some companies are better than it if the others are embracing HR as a function?

SPEAKER_01 4:04

I think it's a combination of those things you've just mentioned, as well as where is the business at in its own journey? How mature is that journey that they're on? You could even say that it's also cultural from a country point of view. Just some reflection that I was looking at some data before coming in. And in the US, 8% of boards have some kind of representative from an HR person. If you look at the UK, on the FTSE 350, um, about 22% are. So there are two countries that you compare, you know, the business landscapes, yet those statistics are quite different in regards to the HR representation that's sitting on boards. Why is that? Well, you know, we we could spend hours talking about that, but I think it's all of those things you just mentioned: cultural leadership mindset, maturity of the business, and the person who's in there leading that HR portfolio. For me, I think the most critical thing that I can do alongside my team, because I don't do it alone, is add value. And defining what value is is really, really important. My mindset is that as an HR leader, we need to have equal focus on what's right for the business and what's right for the people in that organization. And if you can get that balance right, I think that's where the magic happens.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of music to me as hearing that because often I think it comes down to again the business structure, but having that view of like the commercial aspect of HR, what are the people bringing to the business that obviously you're you're encouraged to manage and lead from that perspective and support, but also identifying that and educating business leaders about the people side, right? I think that's where it gets lost sometimes. You know, we've all heard, you know, you know, senior leaders going, well, you know, anyone would work for our company. You're like, well, actually, no, we've got to work on our EVP, we've got to work on our structure, we've got to keep the people we've got. Because how much is a company worth without the the best people within it, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:16

So I I completely agree. And and this is where I was saying I think the fundamental shift has come in that it was always highly reactive. And now people are realizing you need to be proactive, you need to be planning ahead, you need to be reading the tea leaves and understanding what are the internal and external factors that are going to influence where the business is going, and therefore have the people agenda aligned to go on that journey with it. I have a two-year delivery roadmap with my team. And every quarter I meet with my HR directors and we continually refine that roadmap. And that roadmap is very operationally focused, right? But it is designed based on the HR strategy, which is designed to align with the company strategy. That roadmap, every quarter pivots. Every quarter things change on it because that's what we should be doing. We're we're continually focusing on where is the future going for the business and how do we partner to provide our bit to achieve that. But we also have to prepare that there's going to be change along the way. And a lot of people aren't comfortable with that, right? So you you do have to be able to pivot and be agile. I know it's a very overused word, but it's the best one I can come up with right now, um, you know, in in order to go on that journey and most importantly, add value.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

You just bring me to another point that really resonated with me, is that I I've been in organizations where HR actually didn't know the strategy. They didn't know where the business is going. They were so reactionary. So is there any advice like how do you get that information or see at the table? Because often it's don't lead to say, oh, let's pull in HR and talk to it, or be the last minute because something's gone wrong, there's been a complaint, or it's around onboarding or talent, right? There's usually a solution. But you know, you're obviously got to see at the table where you can understand where the roadmap is. Because as you said, with people, it's not a three month, two months, it's just three, six, twelve, two-year strategy. You know, if you're wanting to IPO your company, you're going to need the people to do it. Right. So if if there's a young HR person sitting in a business that's hyper-groaks, but they're not, they don't know the strategy, what would advise you to be to go out and speak to someone?

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Well, I I would probably suggest what I've done over the last five years when I had my own consulting business and as you mentioned in the introduction, been working with founders, entrepreneurs in the startup sector, all of which, or each of which had uh private equity involved. And every time I would join those organizations, I would make a point of speaking to each member of that senior leadership team. And I wasn't discussing HR, I was discussing the business. Where are we now? Where do we want to go? What are the things that are going to take us there? What are the obstacles we've got to overcome? Where is the funding coming from? Do we have the resources? Everything about the business, because the answers to all of those questions are what then shape the HR strategy. Now, even in some mature organizations I've worked with prior to uh supporting those startups, many of those didn't have business strategies either. So it was then a case of finding and rather creating an environment with that CEO and those senior leaders to say, okay, we need to get alignment on where are we going collectively as an organization, and from there building out that company strategy. So it absolutely has to start with understanding the roadmap for the organization. Where are we now? Where do we want to be? And that then has been hugely important in the way I've then crafted the IHR strategy, delivered, sorry, created the delivery roadmap, structured my team, uh, defined what our focus areas are, what our internal value proposition is as a department, and then aim to deliver it. But it's not a set and forget. It's a question you have to continually keep asking that senior leadership team. Is this still our roam? Is that still where we're going, or are we pivoting? Because that's fine. But then that has a trickle-down effect on not just HR, but on IT, on finance, on legal, on operations, and so on and so forth. So it's not a one-stop conversation, it's regular dialogue and constantly hard.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

I like that. Constant alignment queue in there. I like that. Where's the room? You might you're making me think, have I got my strategy connected properly for my business? It's it's more of a counselling session, Victoria. You can charge me at the end.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

I'm gonna have to charge you. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Yeah. We're getting advice. Um, it's great. Yeah. Oh, there was so much you just got me mentioned there that just like resonated and made me jump out because having worked for large organizations, organizations myself and and startups, and you touched on it a bit there, but what is the mind shift shift to go into these different cultures? Because, and I'll give you some context. I've actually been lucky enough to hire some fantastic HR professionals, but sometimes they've come from, say, a large organization and they've come into a smaller organization, which is hypergrowth, and you can see the kind of panic in their eyes because we haven't got the processes, there's not the structure that they do have a seat at the table and they didn't have before, and we're asking them to do things, or it could go the other way where someone's taking that leap from a smaller or government organization into a major corporate. So, I mean, you you've done it, so it'd be great to hear what how do you take make that mind shift shift? How do you keep yourself sane?

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Yes. And I all of what you just said then I have experienced. So totally it can uh relate to your your introduction. The thing that for me is the biggest mind shift influencer is do I believe in what this company is trying to do? And in fact, there's probably one step before that. Do I understand what this company is wanting to do? First of all, you've got to be curious, you've got to ask lost questions. And then secondly, does it speak to my heart? Does it does it resonate with me? And I'll give you an example. You know, some of these startups that I was working with, the things that they were wanting to create were so great. And they were things that I personally wanted to use or services that I would love to have in my world. So that that connection to what we were trying to build was really strong. So that spoke to my heart. And as I grew to understand the service offering more and more, then that made me even more excited. So I think your mindset first starts from seeking first to understand in order to then be understood, and then under appreciating, all right, what's my role going to be in this? The second thing from a mindset point of view is understanding the environment you've walked into. I have worked for a Swiss company, I have worked for a Dutch company, I have worked for Australian companies, I've worked for American companies, I've worked in private organizations, those with private equity investors, those that were listed on various markets. You have to know the environment that you're going into because that absolutely influences the mindset that you take. There were conversations that I was having with the executive management teams in a startup world that was not appropriate for me to have in a Fortune 100 listed company on the Hero Next, right? So I think after you've understood the vision and what we're trying to achieve, it's then understanding the landscape that you're working in. Who are the heavy hitters? What are the do's and don'ts, et cetera, et cetera? And then the third thing I think is once you've got those two elements clear, is working out, okay, how can I make a difference? How what are the things that I'm bringing to the table here, the reasons why they've hired me, that is going to be able to make a difference to achieving that that first section around the vision and fulfilling that strategy. And once I've got those things pretty clear on my mind, then that enables me to start creating strategy, delivering operations.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Yeah, very good advice. It just maybe think about it because you know you walk into this day one and you're like, what have I done or how is this going? Do you find the HR community like a good as mentors, or have you had people that have been a coach for you in your career in terms of like are offered or they are open to offering advice? Often sales professionals are quite closed in terms of that because they're like, Well, you might take my secret sauce or something like that. But do you find, like, you know, have you used that as something in your career to learn from?

SPEAKER_01 15:08

I have. And I'm I'm a big believer in asking for help, that we're never too old and we should never be too proud to ask for help. And I'm also a big believer in paying it forward, and I live by those values every day. I think the very nature of what HR does drives uh a characteristic amongst HR leaders of being willing and able to share. And I sit on a number of chief people officer round tables, and we're constantly asking each other for help and sharing best practice, sharing materials that, of course, you know, we're able to do so without contravening any governance policies. Um, and yeah, just being a listening ear or offering input on uh similar experiences and what have you. So I have always found it to be a very welcoming community, a community that's prepared to open um hearts and minds and share willingly. And I say that having lived and worked in the US, Switzerland, Singapore, Australia, the UK, it hasn't differed across those different demographics. Um, it has constantly been that theme. What I do find interesting is that I've done a lot of interviewing of HR talent when I've been building my own teams. And I have found that there's two very distinct camps. The real traditional HR, they've gone, they've studied, that's all they've ever done. And then the people who, like me, have come into HR through working in the business. I don't say that there's a better or a worse, a right or a wrong, but I have seen a different perspective. Those that have come through the industry and only, sorry, come through that uh career field and only ever worked in it are more conservative in their mindset than those that have gone out into business and either come back to HR or come from the business into each HR. And I would say that for anyone that is really wanting to expand their mindset, working in different parts of an organization enables you to see it more holistically. And I would always encourage people to do that. And I've had people who have left working with me in HR, gone into sales and operations, and then come back, and they're absolutely more valuable to the business because of that exposure and experience.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Yeah, um, I've seen that as well, and totally agree. I mean, I've seen people like there's a number of large conglomerates now where from HR people have gone into one of the sales leadership roles because they understand the business so well, or a commercial director role or an operations role, or coming back. Careers are quite fluid. If people are interested in the HR field or people in cultures, it's come now, it's something to get into. But I think having that rounded experience really helps you because you can you can you see where the other person's sitting, why they might not have time for something when you can actually look at them and go, Yeah, you've got to hit your PL, you've got to hit your targets. Yeah, they might not be great at that's might be why they're behind them doing all their reviews, their year-end reviews, because that's their focus, right? But you know, what part is because what value can it add? It's not about what you're doing, it's about the value added to the business. Brings me to kind of ask them sometimes, people in the in sales or in tech technology, they don't really know what's happening in HR. What what are the changes in the function that you've seen?

SPEAKER_01 18:34

I think that the biggest thing that people outside of the function don't realize is the pace at which expectations are accelerating. And what I mean by that is uh in a lot of the Asia-based HR teams and and probably beyond as well, uh, at present, you're managing digital transformation. There's a huge amount of regulatory complexity that goes on that, if you don't manage that well, can hit you materially from a financial and reputation point of view. There is this massive generational shift that's happening. I mean, you know, countries like Japan with declining birth rates, you've got such an extreme range of age groups working in in a country like that. You've got this cross-border mobility that's happening. It's so easy for people to move between countries in China because common language is spoken, and whilst customs may differ, there's enough similarity that people can integrate with relative ease. And then you've got these big leadership gaps because let's face it, Asia is growing at a much faster pace than Europe, than the United States in a lot of industries. So you've got a huge amount of startups in Asia, and you've got a huge amount of established organizations where their Asia business is outperforming North America, Latin America, and Europe. So they're saying, let's build up that marketplace. Let's put more resources in it. And often when you do that fast growth, you have a leadership gap for a period of time whilst people are catching up. So all of that is what's going on behind the scenes that a lot of people in business roles would not be privy to. They would not have had that exposure and realize that HR is playing a really key part in all of those complex business challenges, just to be able to keep the lights on and the growth trajectory moving in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, just seeing the opportunity in Asia, and I think the opportunity has always been there, but it's being realized now. Um, for our business, you know, I was gonna smiled royally because it's like, you know, CXC, we do the kind of compliance and regulatory class. That we often speak to H. You don't want to miss the classification of workers, you want to make sure that people are managed the right way and how important it is. And I think it's come to the forefront in years because true businesses are truly global, right? They have um blended teams across the world in different locations doing different things, making sure we're doing that. Um, and I think that's where you know people as a business, if you have a strong HR, HR leader, HR function, there is a that you can lean on them in some ways and get that support that you need. And sometimes the sanity check, it's like, is that one doing that resonating with the team? Because it doesn't seem to be and they're all like, no, it's not, it's terrible. You need to change that. Yeah, you know, I think there's a piece where HR marketing and leadership all needs to work together because uh there's um there's a it actually it crosses a lot. So I mean you you've kind of mentioned those where the business can look to HR to to help there. So when what do you see is the most effective leaders when you can turn HR, as you mentioned, from that reactive function? Into a strategic partner for the business. What what are the levers that you can go? Right, this is where we can help you. This is where we can we can get ahead of this for you, you know, especially through like so many businesses going through transformation at the moment, you know, some of it positive, some of it probably negative uh could impact people.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Well, the the key thing for me is that HR is involved in the discussion, not receiving the decision. So, what I mean by that is that we're part of the conversation that is influencing the decisions taken. So that for me is the biggest lever that you could possibly seek to have is to be at the table in the discussion and aligning on the decision that's taken.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Yeah. And I you're making me think it's like you need HR at the table, right? I always in my leadership we need to have a people part where we talk about people, hiring, management, performance. And I think people forget that often. It's always about the numbers, right? I think business conversations can be still very numbers driven. So, how do you get your like, you know, you've worked with a lot of senior executives, how do you get your senior executives to change that focus and actually get no make sure that people aren't the last part of the agenda and they've moved up to the front?

SPEAKER_01 23:19

The best way that I've been able to do it, and I'm sure there are uh many other great approaches that others have taken, is that I translate people into performance. So the language that I use, everyone expects us to talk about engagement and culture, right? That's a given. And we should be talking about that. But when you talk about those kinds of things in really abstract terms, you see the CFO, you see the operations, they switch off, right? But if you can start linking the people to performance in areas like attrition costs, speed of execution, quality, market opportunities, market growth, accelerate, et cetera, you suddenly are talking the same language as many of the other people around the room. And there, that doesn't mean that you're forgetting about engagement and culture. You're just weaving it in in a slightly different way. It's like I used to be in sales. If I pitch a product to someone, but I don't use a language that they understand and I'm not dealing with the challenge that they have, they're not gonna buy from me. It's exactly the same when you're selling a people agenda. You have to talk in the language of your customers that you're pitching the idea to. So you've got to translate people into performance. And when those kind of conversations are taking place and you are talking about measurable impact, because what you can't you can't manage what you can't measure, uh CEO I used to report to say many, many, many times, you can't manage what isn't measured. So if you can bring that people conversation in line with the performance piece and show how we can measure that in various ways, then I think you start uh connecting more with people around that table and they will they will absolutely buy into what it is that you're proposing. Or positively challenge it, at which point in time, great. Really good discussion. We're getting to we're getting to this real meat of the situation, and and then the conversation changes.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Yeah, I really like that. Positively challenge, but I think positively challenge all the time. That's really good advice. And I think for anyone sitting with HR at the leadership table, don't be the wallflower, don't just be there, you're not there to take notes, it's there to actually get your opinion, right? And I my thing is that I like it always like coming from people from different lenses, from someone from marketing to finance going, the world is changing at such a rapid rate. Um, for us, for our children, for everything. Well, businesses, I've never seen it change so much. I'll know I've been through the GFC, I've been through many different things. So when you've kind of gone through transformation, it looks very clean on a PowerPoint, but really messy in reality, you know. Um, where do companies really underestimate that culture and behavior when they're trying to do a change? Like, how do they underestimate the scope or scale of a transformation?

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Everyone seems to be going through some form of transformation at some point in their in their business cycle. I think the key thing that I've taken away after being involved in a number of transformation projects is that leaders and teams often underestimate just how deeply habits are embedded. And when you're when you're saying to someone through transformation, we want you to change those habits, the first reaction is that of discomfort, followed closely by fear. And it's very personal, right? So you can change the strategy in the boardroom, and then you know, we've got a transformation program that then follows from that. But the behavioral shift that was really what's required is done every day in those microcosms of teams, of departments, of individuals, and so forth. So I think the messy part and the underestimated cultural element is around discussing change of habits that are that are going to be required by people and by teams. And those habits could be the way we work, it could be the way we interact, it could be the size of the team, it could be the location of the team. You know, transformation is a lot of different things depending on um what the end game is that that you you're striving for. If I could give one piece of advice, it would be to really consider that shift in habits that we are asking of people and to engage with people around how they're feeling on that, their their thoughts, their contributions. One of the things I hear most often is nobody involved me in that. Nobody asked my opinion in that. I've got 10 years of IP in this company. And whilst I wasn't on the transformation program, I've got some stuff that I could contribute to that. Nobody asked me. And that again could be habit forming of the individuals that are running the transformation project. So so it requires a shift in thinking around established habits, uh, outlooks, ways of working to really, I think, ensure that that cultural and behavioral element is incorporated within your transformation program.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

I love it. I've just been making notes. Well, you can just be really honest. Like we've gone through a lot of transformation. We talk about change, we talk about transformation. And often when you do presenting at the all hands, you talk about it. And like you read the book Atomic Habits and so forth. But it's actually like you're asking people to change their habits. So in a vernacular, when you're doing multi-country habits, they will understand people will understand rather than transformation. So I think that really resonates in terms of we need you to change your habits now. You used to do this, now you need to do this. It means you're gonna have to do something a bit differently. Is that okay with you? No, it's because we like doing it this way because it's always been done this way. Well, that that might be a way that we can do that. So I think that's uh that's really key from that perspective. How within this transformation and the the strategy is set, how would you advise or people that are listening to the support you can give to the leadership team within that transformation? Because often HR, it's around about you know cost optimization, they might be actually dealing with the hard part, which is redundancies, it might be dealing with the hard part of people change, but there's also a big part where it's the strategy and the actual functional change, right? The the the way the business could be done. So, where can they actually stand up and add more support outside of the people piece?

SPEAKER_01 30:02

I don't mean for this to sound wishy-washy, but having gone through not long ago, the thing that really stands out for me is remembering to be humane throughout the whole journey because we can get caught up with Gantt charts and Excel files and uh numbers and stats and timelines and all this kind of thing. And it's very easy to forget that we're actually involving human beings who have feelings, who have opinions, who have a life outside work, and work is important to them. You know, there's all of these facets that I think we can sometimes forget. So bringing back that humane element, it cannot be underestimated the impact that that can have. And I've I've done way too many re-orcs and reductions, right? And the ones that I've seen that have always landed the best, not only for the people that have gone, but importantly for the people who stay afterwards, is the way people were treated and made to feel. And not the the best ones were not necessarily the ones that gave the most amount of money. They were the ones that treated people with decency, that took the time to ensure that they weren't shown the door five minutes after being given the news. They had the opportunity to have a dignified exit. They were really made to understand and feel that this was not personal. This was a business decision. So I really can't stress that enough that the importance of making people feel humane and having that human element woven through the game plan from start to finish of that re-org is so profoundly important.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

I really resonate with me as well. So I think I'm a big believer in yes, treat people the right way, have the conversations. It is a business decision. So what I've seen is it, and one of the hardest things I've seen for the HR team where even leaders, that the decision is made, the conversations have happened, the transformations happen, or people that have been impacted has left. How does the HR team then deal with the aftermath?

SPEAKER_01 32:12

I don't think that there's one single thing to do after a re-org. I think it's a combination of elements which, if I had to summarize it in one word, communicate.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Checking in with people. Okay, you just lost half your team last week. How are you doing? How are you managing? Are you guys coping with the workload? What's going on? How and and also asking them, because many of them will be still in contact with these people, you know, after they've left. Have you heard from so and so? How are they doing? Have they found another role? You know, again, that humane element.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Um so we talked about let's let's really good advice, Victoria, on, you know, the changes and stuff. But let's look forward to the future. Let's get to the positive side of where where the build the the world is going. There's now a lot more expectations put on HR. How does HR influence now the strategy of a business going forward? And what kind of skills do you reckon or you think or know that the HR leaders of today will need, or um the new skills that they'll need that weren't critical before? Where do you see the new skills coming?

SPEAKER_01 33:26

There's probably three things that really stand out for me. First is that commercial acumen, which you and I have been speaking about the whole this afternoon. I think understanding the business, the models, margins, market, etc., absolutely paramount. So that would be the first. The second is data literacy. Data is the new gold, and the it's absolutely paramount that people know where to find it, how to mine it, um, how to analyze it and uh, you know, take away the key insights that data are available to us now can really influence the way we the decisions that we take, right? So that data literacy, I think, is the second really critical skill. And the third thing is, and you might laugh when I say this, but I think the third thing is courage. Courage, particularly at that executive level, to positively challenge and to be comfortable with being a bit uncomfortable. And it takes courage to have those moments, but courage to speak up, courage to speak out, courage to challenge, uh, to have an opinion. Uh, yeah, for me, that's that's the third really critical skill that I think uh is more and more independent now for HR leaders.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

I like that. Courage. So if you if courage is your your advice around that, those three things that people go into, what would the advice you give to Victoria on day one, stepping into her first senior HR leadership role?

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Well, at the risk of sounding like I'm repeating myself, uh first seek to understand in order to be understood. So really get under the hood of that car, understand the business deeply. I think then the second thing would be uh if if this is the business and this is where we're going, how can I drive performance? So, what are the things that we can do? It's not going to be in a framework, it's not gonna be in a policy document. It's going to be all right, what are the things that really are going to move the needle in this organization? Because then you can translate that into your people strategy. And then I think the third thing I would do is that it is important today to build credibility, right? And credibility comes from, as we've been talking about, you know, leaning in, being curious, asking questions, coming up with solutions, coming up with options. And I think that credibility comes through gaining an insight rather than taking action and being operational. It's it's taking the time to understand, providing those insights that people go, wow, that's that's valuable. And therefore your credibility continues to rise. So I would I would say understanding, understanding the business, clarifying performance, how you can drive it, and uh and building that credibility through through hose insights.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

I think that's fantastic advice for anyone in in business, basically. A bit of credibility. I like the courage people are led to people to performance, relating that, understanding your data. I think you see people like Josh Person and um really looking at the HR data to actually make business decisions. Where is that talent? Where you're gonna do it. If you're having someone new into their career, what gift would you give them? Would it be a book on HR? Would it be a book to read? Would it be a song to listen to? What would be the your gift to someone coming into your profession? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

My gift would be the opportunity to go into different organizations and see how HR runs in each of them. Because there isn't one framework, there isn't one way, there's lots of different ways of getting to Rome. And I think the more insight we have, the more we can define the way we want to get there.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Yeah, let's bring you back. Let's uh let's do uh job swaps from now on in HR over your son. Well, thank you very much, Victoria. We've come to the the end of the the um show today. I I think your your advice, your insights are absolutely fantastic. Seeing it from a lens with someone that's been worked at the the largest organs, some the largest organizations world to startups and how really can add value in this HR function. I've there'll be people listening going, I'm gonna just change something I do tomorrow. That's absolutely fantastic. So thank you very much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Thank you for having me, Rich. It's very important to connect. Great questions. Appreciate you taking the time to do these, and I'm a big fan of your podcast.