Ep. 14 | From Idea to Launch with AI with Sherry Jiang

What used to take months can now take days with AI. Instead of placing one big bet, businesses and founders have more opportunities to test ideas before deciding what's worth building. 

In this episode of Work Right With Rich, Richard Farmer sits down with AI engineer, entrepreneur, and educator Sherry Jiang to explore how AI is changing the journey from idea to launch. Drawing on her experience building startups before and after AI, Sherry shares what she's learned along the way. From moving faster with smaller teams to approaching product development differently, she offers a practical look at how AI is influencing the way businesses build, test and bring products to market. 

Whether you're just starting to explore AI or already experimenting with it, this conversation offers fresh perspectives, practical examples, and plenty to think about. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome back to Work Right With Rich, the show where we get into the honest, unfiltered side of what it really takes to make work, well, work. I'm Richard Farmer, your host and managing director at CXD. Joining me again is Sherry Jang, entrepreneur, AI engineer, educator, and one of the most influential voices helping people make the most of the AI personally and for their business. In the first part of our conversation, we explored AI literally and how people are now using AI to create things that they would have been out of reach just a few years ago. In this episode, we get a lot more practical. Cherry shares what she's seeing firsthand from teams building and launching products in weeks instead of months, to how AI is changing the way we think about skills, expertise, and productivity. From concept to get to like launching a product, what's the biggest change? So from your time at Google to now, what's the time difference between the two?

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Yeah, I'll give you some numbers, right? Um what may have taken six months and six engineers, you can probably build in like six days with one person without raising like a million dollars of seed funding. And I'm saying this from personal experience because that's actually how I built my first startup was like, this is you know pre-AI, right? I built a startup pre-AI, so I totally have an understanding of like what had to be done before. And you would spend all this money and time just to realize you don't have product market fit, or even like answer the first step of product market fit. And it was so, so, so expensive to build a company. So, like it's tough, right? And and and that's why I think being lucky actually mattered a lot more as a founder before, because if you made the right bet in that six month period, right, then you're on the right track. Now, with compressed timelines, you can actually manufacture luck, right? It's just actually how many shots can you take at the goal and then getting that right over time. So um, I'll tell you how I build products today. It's no longer like let's do like a huge public release and you know, wait many, many weeks to see what the metrics are. Uh, I started an approach of product development where I can spin up like a new product every day. So it's almost like imagine you can simulate a new reality every day. You bring three to five people as customers to interview, you get feedback on what they're, you know, what they like and don't like, you implement those feedbacks into the product, you go to bed, you wake up, and then you test with another set of users. So I I basically take in now what used to be maybe six months of a shot at one reality of a product and boiled it down to 24 hours, right? So it's like an insane time scale difference because in the past, like let's say a week is like five, five days, right? That would have been three years of six months of trying to do all of this. And that means you actually can win by just being able to iterate and test really fast and relying on luck because you don't have as many shots at a goal if you have what three years and six month cycles to do things. So I actually think there'll be a lot more successful companies, right? That don't have to rely on luck if they just have a formula for experimenting and moving incredibly fast because you can do this with the tools now.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Yeah, I I can again agree with everything you're saying. Um, the future as I see it, I think you'll have loads of smaller companies, about 20 to 50 people that'll be global.

unknown 3:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Like in the long-term future, you might say kids growing up. You I don't know. I don't want to challenge the bigger corporates, but I think you'll see that. And maybe the corporates will break down into smaller groups of how they go out about their products. But I think that's because you won't need as many people, but there'll be more of these options, and there'll be more platforms that more people can use. Um, but like what you just said is crazy, right? It's blown my mind a bit. Like, how do you, and this is more of about you as a person because you're very inspiring in your conversation, but how do you manage this at this pace? How do you how do you how do you prioritize your time? Because you wake up in the morning, you've just gone, uh-oh, I've had another company. Now, for me, I've got a ADHD in me because so I'll be like, oh, yeah, I've done that one. Yeah, I can I can tell. Um, so you kind of like so for me, you'd be like, okay, I've done that one, I've moved on, I've done this one, I've moved on, done this one, but I haven't finished that one. So I mean, but like, how do you how do you keep up with this pace that you're going on? Because you you're at the forefront, right? You're at the tip of the spear. So it's moving so fast. How do you manage that from a wellness perspective, but a personal perspective?

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah, yeah. Um, I I pick my obsession points and I stick to it. And if I don't know what's going on in other spaces, I think I'm okay with it. Like, I think there are some people who are like, if I don't feel like I know a little bit of all these things and I'm in conversation and I'm like, oh, I don't know what buzzwords to drop here. It makes me feel insecure. Like, that'll create a lot of anxiety because, and that's what causes people to want to have a shallow understanding in all different areas to like have conversational cachet. I had this approach where, like, you know what, I'm just gonna accept I don't know that much about this. And that's okay because I have obsessively invested in how to build everyday AI products, right? Like, I don't think that's that many other people in the world who've spent as many hours trying to sit down with like the next gen Gen Z people on how they manage money with AI, sat down and translated those insights into a product. Like, I I pick my obsession and I focus on that. And if I don't know everything about like, I don't know, the newest stuff going on in pre-training, like a lot of the stuff around like chip design and everything, like I'm like, I'm not an expert there. I just like I can just tell you, does the model give me good answers? And I'm sure somewhere if you back all the way, there's a decision around a chip. But I'm not an expert on that. And I kind of accept it. So I think that's what helps me sleep at night, where like I I pick the areas where I want to be good at. And if I'm not good at other things or know those things, so be it. But I know that if I need to know them, okay, I'll just call up a friend or I'll look up look it up and figure it out. But I don't need to, I don't need to know everything.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Yeah, I think that's that's great. I love that. Pick your obsession points. I think it's great. Like it's uh unfortunately, mine's using wine. So uh red wine or something like that. So I need to have more of a focus on this. Yeah, um, but I think that's a that's a really good tip for people because I think honestly, where people are getting to a point of this saturation point of AI is that you know a lot of conferences you're going to and they're talking about it, but no one's actually doing it, which is where I have this like conversation. I'm really enjoying it because you're talking about actually doing things with it, not what's it gonna do, where is it gonna be. So I think people have have got the point of either they've gone, I it's too scary for me, I'm not gonna know about it. I'm just gonna, like you say, like I can talk a bit around you, or I can use my my platform for certain things, or people are going really deep and leading in. But you know, there's always those first people, but you know, I think the opportunity there is really exciting. Um, but that's good. So I love that. Moving that phase product within 24 hours, find your obsession points. I think that's absolutely fantastic. Um, but like if you're going back, so we talked about you and how you managed to move this, but say you've got a leader, they've got a business, they know that they've got some issues, right? So say it could be they want an agent or they want something to uh like you're an SME business and you you you're wanting to can can be uh continue to be successful and compete, right? How what advice would you say to them as a as an owner operator to go right in the next three to six months? How do I get AI ready? What do I do for myself to become literate in what this is going on? Because I'm not in a big corporate that can teach me. I haven't got a bigger business, um, I might not have a coach or something like that. So what would you advise me, Sherry?

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Yeah. Um I probably first ask them uh how much how much money versus how much patience do you have? Because you can basically decide if it's a it's a build versus buy decision. And I've actually seen this, right? Where um there are um there are like look, if you're you're if you're SME, um you are busy, you have so many things to manage. And I I probably can't always just go in and tell them, like, look, you've got to drop five hours a day and learn all this tech stuff. And if you have the resources to basically get help from somebody who can implement some of these things, like do all of that, I I think that's actually fine. I've I've seen um so open claws, automation software, all this stuff is it's kind of a it's a it's a bit of a hot topic, but really it's like there's as an SME, I I I've seen so many people managing scheduling and stuff still on email. Like there's no like formalized process for a lot of pretty tedious tasks. If you just want someone to get you a head start and you have the cash flow to support hiring somebody to do it, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that, by the way. And you'll kind of learn as you work with them, right? Just make sure you pick good vendors. If you have the time and patience to learn, then that's a different answer, which is okay, how much time do you have? Do you have two hours a day, one hour a day, three hours a day, five hours on the weekend? Like, what are you balancing? And then there could be like a curriculum that you scope out, which again, if it's like I'm just trying to generally learn AI, that's pretty hard to tackle. It's like, what is your biggest pain point, right? Are you like trying to manage your email flows and you want something that like sorts out your, you know, most important things better? Uh, do you want to, do you have to do your own marketing, but making creative assets is like really tedious? Then maybe you should learn how to use image generation models, and that is your module, right? But start with like what is your biggest pain point as a business owner, and then you focus on teaching yourself during those times, right? So that's kind of my thought around it. It really actually depends on the person. I know a few people who are like, look, I don't have time, but I have money. I'm gonna pay somebody to do it. I'm like, Yeah, I'm gonna throw some cash in it. I think that's fine. I I think that's actually okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I I do too. I think it can be a blend for both, but you made a good point. And an SME person, like we're you know, in my business, like you spread very thin. It's like when can I have the time or when when you you want to be involved, do you want to really research it, you can do it, but can you not? So it's finding that point. But I suppose in another way, the what the SMA person might be looking at and looking at what's being released now, and look even what they can do on a you know, for example, you mentioned lawyers, right? They've just gone, give me a legal flag of this. Like, I don't need like if they're a law firm, they might be looking into the room, seeing loads of lawyers sitting there going, uh I don't know how much of it we're doing this. So, you know, do you think it will change that? This is the biggest fear, right? That we'll see a lot of jobs get lost. Um, agents may replace humans in some form, or do you think you know it'll actually simply change what good looks like in those roles? Will we be able to out but to enhance people's roles?

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Yeah, I think there is going to be short-term displacement. Like, I am not going to uh I'm not gonna you know sugarcoat it.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Yeah, sugarcoat it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

The reason why is about the pace of change, right? It is like you can do it tomorrow to decide as a company that you're gonna get rid of 50% of their jobs. That is the case, right? You decide as a company, but to get the 50% of the people to then upscale and do other things that are like valuable, they enjoy all that, is not gonna take 24 hours. That's gonna take time to learn because our own operating systems as humans like are not we're not software. You just can't just download something and do it as of yet, right? We're we're neurologically constrained by our own learning capacity and uh as a factor of our open-mindedness as well, right? So I think in the short term, there it is gonna be some challenges, right? I I will not sugarcoat that, right? If you're in a role where um it is very one plus one equals two, it's very deterministic, uh, and you don't want to upskill or change anything, like the reality is that that is at risk. Like I sugarcoated. But I think in the long term, there will be more and more roles where you can take what your base skills were before and elevate it. So I mean, I'll give an example, right? I think um like graphic design is a good one. Um, if you're somebody who uh relied on your ability to move around pixels and create uh banners and stuff as a production skill, like you just made it, uh you will probably no longer be able to just rely on your ability to make a creative asset. But creating a piece of asset, right, that speaks to the audience, that's well crafted, that like accomplishes a goal is actually not easy, right? Like you have to have like some empathy around how do people like you know, little decisions around how the size of the header versus the subtext, or what do you want people's attention to be drawn to? Those are all things that rely on your ability to understand how people perceive information. And probably there's some taste as well, which is like how do you create something that looks aesthetically uh pleasing in a certain way or creates an emotional effect, right, in a way that you want. That's also that I would say that AI cannot really do that well because it's requires an understanding of humans, right? So if you're a graphic designer, you tone your skills in that taste, and then you also know how to make designs, like you are going to be like like in demand, right? Like people still want that, but if you're just like, oh, I can like move some boxes on Adobe, you know, yeah, it doesn't AI can do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that's great advice. Again, I I think it's enhancing those skills, right? You become the best um designer you you'd ever be. And as you mentioned, you you could be doing five people's work. Um, I've always worked in the recruiting field, and you know, like executive search and all these different areas. Um, they're like, of course, you can search now, you can find different CVs, you can do different stuff, but I think you'll have someone that can work all those data platforms sitting across the two, but there's still going to be someone that needs to have a conversation at some point because you know that AI reaching out, talking about a role or a different role or something that's completely different. You can't search about that. We will see a massive change that everyone's looking at skills now, not titles. So it's like, what can you actually do and how can you do it and how can you enhance it? So I think that's one thing we'll see in this area. I think you'll see impacts in finance, legal, like you said, anything that's a repetitive task, but that doesn't mean those individuals should leave. So if I was an SME owner, I'd be looking at the people that have stepped up and got an interest in AI technology. Say, go on a course, get I'll give you some time to go out and understand what we're doing and then apply it. Because the one thing that's missing when you're applying an agent or is the actual understanding of the job or understanding what goes wrong. You can you can type what could go wrong or where is the compliance need in this country, which is what CXE does. You know, we're looking at all those changes, but you don't know the fundamental niche things and issues that can go wrong can go wrong, right? You know that payment dates on a certain date and so forth. So you still need that lens and humanness, and I also think the key thing that you can add to your product, in my opinion, is the storytelling, which is the human element of like why, like you mentioned before, but why is it going to help people? Why do people need it? Um, I think that you can build it. So I think that moves really quick. Um, so I think that this is good. So I think we've got some really good advice for for the uh listeners out there and leaders. I I suppose, you know, last couple of questions for you. Um I could talk to you all day, um, Sherry, about AI, but also do you um just love the love the energy? Um but like from a perspective, you know, if we had a conversation in in in two years, uh, what do you think would surprise us the most about how AI has changed the way we work? Where do you think we could be in two years' time?

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Oh, so you're saying like what I would be surprised about, or what do I expect?

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Yeah, so yeah, so if we had a conversation again in two years, so two years from now, I'm sure we'll speak before. Um, but what do you think you would surprise us about how how AI has changed? So we're in the we're in the future. Yeah, AI has not managed to do time time travel yet, but you know, what what could we be looking at differently? What could be like, whoa, that's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

I mean so so I have a couple of like um you know predictions, and I'm just gonna rattle it off my head. Um, I think that you're going to see a lot of very small teams that are a billion-dollar companies. Um and they might be in spaces that like are completely unexpected. Maybe, maybe the customers of some of these companies aren't even like humans themselves, that it could actually be agents that are, you know, have some kind of access to um, you know, monetary means, being like, as an agent, I want context from humans to do my job better. So I'm paying these companies that know humans to give me data on this. So let me give a bit of background on why I say all this. Um, because this actually goes into my own work. One of the most valuable things that um the guy, uh Alexander Wang, who leads Meta's um AI efforts, he talks about one of the moats you can have is actually around proprietary data. So why is uh, for example, Pokemon Go, right? Which is this game that was very viral. Like, why is that so interesting in the age of AI now? It's because actually through the augmented reality game, they trained a data set of how streets look like and everything that now is going into robotics. But like that is like, again, uh it was like that, that's something that became valuable for agents to do their work better, right? So there may be more companies um that are super valuable that are actually creating proprietary data sets that um uh give the agents context that they couldn't have done um any other way. And the the the thing that I'm exploring actually through my own company is creating proprietary behavioral data. So, how do you understand how humans behave? And one of the best ways you do that is how do they interact in the applications, right? Um, you know, uh if I'm using Duolingo and I'm doing this lesson, where are my failure points? And how does that actually lead to AI's understanding of pedagogy or the art of learning, right? In my case, the behaviors, attitudes, whether or not people act on self-awareness when it comes to saving money, that is something that does not come out of the box for agents, right? So there could be a lot of these companies that so their one of their sole jobs is actually creating these data sets that these agents could then use. So it's uh it's kind of a reversal, right? Where um, you know, you normally wouldn't see see that case. So maybe that's a bit out there, but that's like one thing that I agree about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Yeah, I I think I agree that there's the data set and then there's the understanding of of the human owners. Like it's weird because Pokemon goes come back again, it's now been used all the time, but it's amazing what people have actually created, they don't understand what they've created, and they could come come back to that. Um, and you mentioned something at the end of like loads more questions just came to my mind. Like one robotics, where are we going to see robots in two years kind of walking around? We've already got them in the streets delight uh delivering pizzas. I think um I totally agree on the companies. I think you'll see some billion-dollar startups, and you could see people moving away, you know, just from the pure play on Instagram and and so forth. But you've seen the biggest change. So I I saw a start the other day, so 80% of like um written text has gone, right? So, like people that work for newspapers and so forth, so that really declined. But the amount of people making content has gone up 600%. So actually, they're still doing the same role, but it's just done in a different way. Yeah, so I think AI could be we're doing the same things, but just doing it differently and get a different result. It may look differently in a in a lens. Um, I think there's gonna be the automation around just how we use it on a day-to-day basis, I think there'll be a big impact on education from my perspective. I think the way we've always taught in schools and universities will have to change. Yeah, um, they're saying that you know, um, you know, plumbers, people fixing houses and so forth be paid for the lawyers soon. Um because it's practical, right? You can't get someone doing a house in Victoria, Victorian house in England, they don't have to do old age plumbing, so there's gonna be some big scales. Um, one thing to get your get your point on, and this one came from uh the diary of the CEO, it was one of the um um the guests there, and he said that in 2029 we're gonna have the biggest financial crisis, right? Due to due to data and AI. And he and he and his point was being that um there's been two senior financial uh impacts in the world. Once when we made rail, uh which was in the UK, we paid for it over time and it grew and grew and grew, but we got years and years of usage of it. Then there was electricity in the US and the UK where we put all electricity. Cables and went through, but we've got years and years of usage. Are you saying that we put so much money into data centers, which is AI led, but we only get four years of worth of the parts? And also who's going to pay it back because no one pays for AI and it's chat GPT and so forth, it's free. So I mean, from that perspective, he's saying that you could see because I know you obviously cross-finance payments. Yeah, do you see that that could be a problem?

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Yeah, I mean, uh, so basically, I mean the for for this kind of to happen, you make the argument that the cost of uh the infrastructural cost of doing all of this is going to balloon in such a way that it surpasses the economic value in that point of time to be able to kind of pay it back and and make it make sense, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Yeah. And we've invested all the retirement funds in it.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yeah. I mean, I would probably just be speculating at this point, but I think there could be multiple uh I guess realms of possibility here. I mean, one realm of possibility is that we haven't found a cost-effective way to create AI, and a lot of people's monies, governments are tied into like open AI, all these guys doing things like, you know, quote unquote unsustainably with like all this hyperscale, right? And we encounter a financial crisis. That is certainly something that can happen. But there's also probably realm of possibility number two, which is yes, the costs are gonna keep going up, up, up, but we did not foresee how much economic benefit this would actually provide. We can get where like the economic benefit plus the investor sentiment caught up to a point where even though the costs have ballooned, it's actually smaller in comparison to the benefit, right? And I think uh anthropic CEO uh Dario talks about this uh like they call law of diffusion, right? Which is like, do you believe that the economic benefits of AI are gonna diffuse at X or Y rate? And if it diffuses at a slower rate at X, if compared to the cost, then that's where you have a problem. But if it diffuses at Y economically and it goes much, much faster and outpaces what we predict, then you avoid maybe some of those problems in scenario two, right? Uh there's then maybe a realm of possibility number three, which is uh something I find really interesting, uh, is actually this uh alternative form of creating intelligence, which is um creating smaller models, right? How do you actually like create this intelligence without having to like shove everything in, use like scale as your main lever and just hope it works? And we're starting to see actually some emerging players here. And and um one of the guy uh ladies actually were bringing to our conference AI engineer is someone named Sarah Hooker, who uh you know is building a new company called Adaption and their whole thesis around uh creating these smaller, more efficient adaptive models that aren't like, hey, let's just download the entire intelligence of everything that's been out there on the internet and then lock in that piece here today and let it just do its thing. She's building something where, okay, let's actually have the intelligence of the model adapt along its way with use cases without having to um, you know, utilize the same kind of hyperscale before. So it's actually similar more similar to how humans learn. It's like if when I was growing up, like it wasn't like you know, someone tried to teach me everything about everything that happened in the history of mankind and was like, okay, now you can ride a bicycle, right? It was like, let me just learn and adapt. Oh, bicycle, okay, these are the motor skills I need, I need to know balance, right? Okay, now I learned those things, and that's what goes into my mind. So if that's the case and the computational cost of these kind of models go down lower, and then they're diffused in a way that actually is quite compelling compared to the you know hyper-scale players, then maybe you avoid some of those issues as well. So I I can't predict the future, Richard, but I can tell you like how it's a hard question.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

I just want you to do that your thought process. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Yeah. So I I I usually look at like what I call realms of possibility, right? And then over time I take my opinion based on new information coming in, like, okay, I think it's like 60% likely it's scenario two, right? Or maybe it's 20% likely.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Yeah, I like the realms of possibility in terms of, but I think the smaller models is probably the way forward. I think that's where we go to because it's just drawing too much power. I've done a lot with environmental science and sustainability so you can look at it from that perspective and go, okay, well, we can't keep using this much power and we keep growing. So is there an AI product that you've seen that's been taken to market recently that you've thought, I wish I invented that? In terms of you're like, oh, I've got a bit of a crush on it, go, oh, that's so good. That's I really, I really like that. That's a good one. I'd like to use that. I wish that was me.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

I think there's there's there's so many ways I can answer this, but uh maybe I'll just start out by sharing one of mine that I use a lot. I I I mean, I can't say like I wish I built it because I also feel like maybe I'm not the right founder to build it. I just think it's a great tool. Um, it's one called Manaus. Um, I talk about it all the time. It's M-A-N-U-S. Um, people ask like, why would you use Manus over GBT and everything? Manus is a general purpose agent, which means it can do a lot of different things. And it could go from building PowerPoint slides to like automating like your sales uh pipeline on like LinkedIn. Um, it can do what they call wide research. So if I'm like, I want to find everybody, you know, under the sun who uh wrote anything about coffee and the specific strain of coffee, it will get you 200 sources, right? Which is pretty cool. Uh and and I I like manus because it it's one of the first tools I came across that felt like it actually sat down and tried to understand how humans work. Because when I use Chat GPT out of the box in the browser, it always feels like I have to provide, I have to do so much work to try to get it to empathize with me. It just feels a little bit like it feels very robotic, right? And like it eventually can get there. But I feel like the man is team really put a lot of thought into sitting down and being like, what outcomes can I drive, right? Not just like, can this AI get someone addicted to like being in the to talking to me and like I'm gonna use sick of fancy and like you're absolutely right, all that stuff to get the person to keep talking to me, which is how a lot of I think uh, you know, cheap tea and all these guys out of the box behave. But manus is like, I don't give a crap about those things. Okay, how do I get your job done? And I love it. It's like it's it's like very like nice and simple. It's nice and simple, right? And it just like it can intuit your human intention without you saying things super, super well. Um, it's like it gets you without like it's like when you hang out with an old friend and your old friend, like you don't even have to say much. They look at your face and you're like, Man, you must have had a hard week. Do you want to sit down and talk about it? And you're like, yes, right. That's how I feel about manus. Whereas like when I use like other products, it's like, can you explain to me why being late to a social gathering gives you anxiety? Let's break this down. Help me. Let's like, okay, you're you're trying to like, you know, you don't feel as like empathetic that way. So I that's why I like manus. I think they they they were really thoughtful about how they approach things much.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

Where was it out of interest developed?

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Actually, uh, it's a Singapore-based company that was developed out of China, which um is interesting because uh, like look, lit when I live in Singapore, I I have an exposure to like all kinds of companies. I actually think that a lot of companies outside of the US build better consumer products because they are much more willing to be wrong and be like, let's you know, run these 24-hour cycles where we try things, throw it out, try things, throw it out, and we run enough simulations where like we kind of understand the human, right? I don't think a lot of US companies do it as much. You get a lot more of the as a product leader, I think I'm right. And my vision is this is my vision, and the users who want to be in my vision, they'll join the product, and that that's kind of it, right? And you kind of see that with the way some products work. I find that like part of the reason why I like Manus is it really feels like the team took effort to humble themselves and try to understand the user. And there was no like you know, product leader who had to push a certain vision or another. It's like, let's just let's just make what works, right? I find that quite refreshing. Build something good.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Yeah, maybe that's a cultural lens as well where they've come from, like looking at it from a more practical standpoint where it's like no nonsense, just this is what we do.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Yeah, I mean it's good. If you think about it culturally, right? Um, there's so much emphasis on like your IP, your idea. No one copies what I do in like the US, right? No one cares in other markets where they're like your idea is only as good as your execution today, right? Like, I don't care. Like you came up with it, but if you do like a shoddy job of it, like how can you say that you're the person who's like the forefront of this, right? Like it's just how well you execute.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Yeah, it's an ultimate tool of flattery. There's a lot a lot of it to go around. You don't have to have the whole market, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Um, so this is the the the last question. Um, so we always like to leave a gift on the show. So if you could gift someone something today or leave the next person that's on the show a gift, what would your gift be?

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yeah, I'd probably give them a hundred dollars of credits to try five different AI products. I know that this is like a word of wisdom or like an actual answer, but like it's it's it's it's actually insane. I would say that like today, like we're so accustomed to paying for people's time for expertise. So like that's why we pay for our education, that's why we pay for like lawyer fees or consulting, but like there's still this like resistance. That's gonna change away. This resistance around paying for software and credits. So people are like, oh, like I don't want to try this tool because like the free trial is not good, right? And I'm like, guys, like please, we gotta like adapt our mindset. So oftentimes I find that if I like it and we do this in our class too. If you give people credits, then they suddenly realize like, oh my gosh, this is so so I'm getting so much juice for a hundred dollars. I might be getting like 20k of value from like a hundred bucks of credits, and like that helps you kind of see see the whole world, right? So I that's what I give them. I'd be like, look, I I'm not gonna sit there and be like, pay me like a thousand bucks and I will pretend I'm some AI guru and teach you some stuff. I pocket it and make you feel good, but you don't know anything. I'll be like, Look, my best gift to you is I just give you the tools. Here's some credits. You ask me questions as you're trying to build something, but your best learning is actually how you kind of teach yourself.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Perfect. I love it. I I'll probably I I I second that, but I'll probably just give them some time to go and do it. Yeah, they just go, here's a day, no one's gonna disturb you. Go and have some fun, yeah, play with your clinics and perfect.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Go burn it, burn, go to town, right? Like, don't be like, oh, I'm worried about spending. It's like go to town, right? This is your tuition. You know, this is you're paying to learn.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

Yeah, it's a lot cheaper than university as well. Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

I mean, look, I went to school in the in the US, and like the private schools are like charging you up to like 60k a year for tuition. Yeah, I mean, 100 bucks a month sounds like it pales in comparison to like it does, it does, it does.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

I mean paying school fees uh as as I know very well, I wouldn't mind $100. That'd be fantastic. Um, but look, Sherry, absolutely fantastic to me. You would love the conversation. But how one, how do people get on your course? Two, where where do they find you?

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Yeah, for sure. Um, so they can find the course at codewithai.xyz.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

You can find me on Twitter and LinkedIn. If you search up Sherry Jang, you should find the results pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

All the names of the stuff I do are very straightforward. So it's like, what's the class? Co with AI, what do you do? You co with AI.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

So that's excellent. And um, I'd love to love to take the course as well. He knows I could uh be create creating some. I think I'll I might bring my son as well.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Yes. Uh we've had a few like uh you know mother-son, father, daughter, father-son duos come to class. Like it's uh it's it's a fun time.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

It's a fun time, yeah. And you're just getting shown up by your 11 year old. Uh but that's fine. Uh but look, an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. I've really enjoyed the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

It's been yes, thank you so much for having me, Richard.