Taking The Risk Built The Leader She Became

Leadership rarely arrives as a clean promotion and perfect timing. Teresa welcomes Dean Debra Parker, a pharmacist, mentor, and longtime academic leader, for an honest talk about the moments that shape a career when you’re still figuring it out. From being “thrust” into leadership early to learning how mentorship works in real clinical settings, Deborah shares the turning points that built her confidence and clarified her values. 

We get specific about what pharmacy leadership looks like on the ground: ambulatory care practice, collaborative practice agreements, interdisciplinary teamwork, and the behind-the-scenes realities of billing, coding, and operations that can make or break patient care. Deborah also walks through the leap into academia to help launch a new pharmacy school and navigate accreditation, and why big, complex projects only move when you break them into milestones and communicate clearly about what you’re piloting. 

Then we zoom out to academic healthcare leadership today. The pandemic forced rapid change, online education expanded access, and student expectations keep shifting. Deborah explains why the hardest challenge is changing fast enough without stripping away what faculty love about their work. Along the way, we name imposter syndrome, bias, and the pressure women feel in rooms where they’re underrepresented, plus practical ways to delegate without guilt, stop self-disqualifying, and amplify other women so ideas and credit stick. 

If you care about women in healthcare leadership, healthcare education, mentoring emerging leaders, and building the courage to lead before you feel ready, this conversation will stay with you. Subscribe, share with a colleague, and leave a review so more women can find the show and step forward, too. What’s one leadership move you’ll make this month?

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Dean Parker

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome back to the Healthcare She Suite, the podcast where we amplify the voices of women who are shaping the future of healthcare leadership. I'm Teresa, and today I'm genuinely excited about this conversation. You might notice my normal co-host, Jen Jackson, is absence today as she is recharging her battery. Today we are being joined by Dean Deborah Parker, a respected academic leader, mentor, pharmacist, and advocate for developing the next generation of healthcare professionals. Dean Parker has spent her career at the intersection of education, leadership, and healthcare intervention, and she understands deeply how academic leadership translates into real-world impact. Most importantly, Dean Parker was my residency program director back in the day and taught me everything I know about healthcare. A valued friend and a valued mentor, I'm extremely excited to have her join the show today. Dean Parker, welcome to the Healthcare She's Suite. We're so excited to have you.

Early Mentoring And First Leadership

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Thank you for having me, and thank you for the kind words.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Before we dive in, I'd love for you to share what first drew you into healthcare education and leadership. And was there a moment that set you on this path?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Well, my first position after my pharmacy residency, I was very shortly thrust into a leadership position. I immediately was assigned students to mentor in a clinical setting, and I had never planned or anticipated how much I would enjoy being able to mentor them. So that was my first foray into education, which is being a preceptor and having students on site with me. I must have done a decent job at it because I was selected as preceptor of the year, which was which was a really nice early career recognition that made me think maybe, maybe I do have the skills to be able to mentor other people and to teach them.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Excellent. And I have the claim to fame of being one of those first students that you had in that class, even though I didn't nominate you for preceptor of the year. So sorry about that. That's all right. But I think that's true for a lot of healthcare leaders and a lot of frontline healthcare workers, that our first foyer into teaching is with those on-site clinical students. And I feel like we do have a responsibility to give back to our profession and give back to healthcare by continuing to train. Talk a little bit about your first position, especially let's start with your residency and how that set you up for success in your future career.

Residency Choices And Career Pivots

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Well, I specifically throughout pharmacy school and my training had always been in community settings. And I chose a hospital-based residency intentionally because it was an area where I felt least sure of myself and felt like being in that setting for a year with mentorship of others would help make me a lot more well-rounded. I loved that setting. And had there been a position for me, my life, my career would have taken an entirely different track. I would have stayed there. Um, but there was an opening in an ambulatory care setting as I was completing my residency that I had also enjoyed. And the pharmacist there, who had been my preceptor and mentor, invited me to come back. She said she wanted to um go part-time, start a family, and she needed a second pharmacist and asked if I'd be interested and willing to take on that role. So I ended up entering the world of ambulatory care um through that opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Interesting. So a pivotal moment that really changed the trajectory of your career. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Absolutely. Ambulatory care became and still is an important and a very enjoyable part of my career.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Sure. And I think, you know, the important point there is you took chances and you took risks and especially looked at where you felt like you had opportunities for improvement by moving into a hospital-based residency and growing those skills that would allow you to be effective in the future. That kind of leads us into our next discussion point. You know, many women in healthcare leadership don't follow a straight line. I certainly didn't. Jen, my co-host, certainly hasn't, and I know you haven't either. We pivot, we stretch, we say yes before we feel fully ready, and we need to do that. But can you walk us through a pivotal moment in your career that shaped how you lead today?

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Absolutely. That position that I said I was going that I took right after residency, I felt like I had a partner in that position. And I had only been there about two months when she announced that she and her husband were going to move out of state and the entire operation was mine to run. There was a resident who had already started that I was going to become the residency program director for. There were students scheduled to come there every month from a nearby university, and there were several different clinics that she was operating. And um, yeah, I had a moment of panic. Like, you're you're leaving me. Okay, training wheels are off. Honestly, I think that was probably the best thing that could have happened to me in my career because the training wheels were quickly removed and I was in charge. Yep. And um I did not necessarily know what I was doing, but I sought every opportunity to get, you know, further education, certifications, mentors, networking, um, just to try to make sure that I was doing the best I could for the patients and for the students that I was responsible for.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Yeah, that's a great point. And I think it's worth describing that practice a little bit because my career started in the same practice. I did a pharmacy residency with Dr. Parker as my program director and really got to see the importance of ambulatory care pharmacy in the lives of patients with chronic disease, but also the importance of interdisciplinary collaboration, which is really what has helped me throughout my healthcare career. Do you want to describe what that site was like when you started and when you took over that leadership role? Um, and just kind of describe what the pharmacist's role was in that area.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Sure. Um, this was in the early 2000s, and um working under a collaborative practice agreement was still pretty novel. It was not a commonly thing seen between pharmacists and prescribers. This was an internal medicine office that employed a full-time pharmacist. It started off with just a full-time pharmacist, but by the time both Teresa and I left that practice, there were two full-time pharmacists and anywhere from one to two residents at any given point that worked with a group of physicians that fluctuated between four and six internists, a group of nurses. This practice being in internal medicine handled a lot of things. It was on the edge of cardiology, it was on the edge of family practice, it was on the edge of endocrinology. We had the opportunity to see and do a lot of things with the nurses, um, the MAs. There was a full service lab in that office, so um a laboratory technician. And um, to really uh impact the lives of many patients with chronic conditions from anti-coag, heart failure, hyperlipidemia, hypertension, diabetes, we got to see and do a lot of things at an early point in our career.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah, and I think for me, and I think you'd say the same thing, it was impactful, especially because of the relationship that we got to build with the physician leaders for that practice. It was a private practice, so we not only saw the importance of having strong clinical physician leaders, but we saw the behind-the-scenes administrative and financial decisions that had to go on in those practices. And that would set us up for success in leadership in future endeavors.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Yeah, you really had to understand what you were doing, how that was being coded, how it was being built. You needed to be good friends with the office manager of that practice, or nothing was going to be successful if you didn't have that individual backing you up and making sure that the resources and the support was in place.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Yep, absolutely. So you took the next step and went into education. How did that experience of, you know, taking the next step, moving to education, and really getting out of your comfort zone again teach you about yourself as a leader?

SPEAKER_00 8:45

That was a really interesting experience because not only was I leaving a full-time clinical position to go into academia, but I was joining a group of individuals who were starting up the first new pharmacy school in our state in over a hundred years. So going through the accreditation process was and being there from the beginning was an awesome experience looking back on it. It helped me to really begin to learn how you take a gigantic project and break it down into major milestones and tasks and working as a team to say, this seems so huge, but we can do it. Right. And having that can-do attitude with a small group of people who were very motivated to accomplishing it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Was there ever a moment in all of that time? I mean, I think if I think of one word to describe your career, especially your early career, it's innovative, right? You started a unique practice in a physician group and grew that, even though you weren't there initially. You began the first college of pharmacy in Ohio in a hundred years, which is unbelievable. Was there ever a moment of self-doubt or even, you know, imposter syndrome? And how did you work through that?

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Every step I take is plagued with imposter syndrome and self-doubt. Certainly in that first clinical position, I thought, oh my gosh, I am just one year out of my residency and I am in charge of more than I probably am capable of. When I came into academia, why do these people want me to be a professor in this new program and to be part of the leadership team to establish things? What do I know about this? Do they do know who I am? They they do know what my background is, and yes, they did, but I, yeah, there was that moment, many moments of are the are am I sure that I'm the right person here? I think eventually, you know, we fast forward a number of years in my career in academia, and when I became dean of this program, there's been many moments where I've I've sat in a room, especially early in my career as a dean with a room full of men, and thought, um, do I belong here?

SPEAKER_01 10:57

I think I would be remiss if I didn't discuss your presidency of the Ohio Pharmacist Association as well. Obviously, you know, it's one thing to lead a clinical practice. You're in a significant leadership position here as dean, but even before that, you were president of the largest association of pharmacists in the state of Ohio, which is one of the largest pharmacist groups in the country. And what did you take away from that time that you still use today in your your leadership?

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Wow, a lot of things. One one that I'll pull out is the admin the importance of skilled staff members. Presidents come and go. The people who really hold organizations together are people who have some institutional knowledge and who are there to support you and to help make you successful. And that just cannot be overstated. Uh, you know, a president, a dean, uh fill in the blank can be a figurehead, and but they can only be as successful as the people behind them are. Sure. So that's that's huge. And I try to remember to acknowledge that regularly to the people who work with me because I get to be the person who goes up to the podium, or I get to be the person who is, you know, whose picture whose name is is on the program. But oh my gosh, I can't do anything alone successfully. Yep.

Leading Academia Through Fast Change

SPEAKER_01 12:25

I think that's a really, really great point for leaders and especially young leaders, because it speaks to the importance of delegation too, right? Mm-hmm. I I know as a young leader I really struggled with that. It if I wasn't doing the work, then was it going to be done right? But there's plenty of skilled people who can do some work better than you. And you need to rely on those people. So that's a good point to make. Let's talk a little bit about leading an academia in healthcare today. Certainly the pandemic changed healthcare, but it also changed academia significantly. And academic healthcare leadership continues to evolve rapidly. Um, there's complex systems, there's workforce shortages, shifting student expectations. That's been a big one for your university. From your vantage point as dean, what do you see as the biggest leadership challenge right now?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Changing fast enough.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Yeah, um academia moves historically has moved very slowly. And even when that statement is made to leaders in academia, they some will argue against that. Like, no, no, it it's not slow. We're quick to evaluate things and to incubate things and to, you know, really look at all the angles. But in the end, I don't think the outside people outside of academia will will buy that.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Um That's a great point. And how how does it ever make it out the incubator then that, right? That's the other question. Well, no, and not everything should make it out of the incubator. Right. So But we should close the loop if it doesn't, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Exactly. This is what I I think we can do a better job about communicating what we're incubating and what we're t piloting or beta testing before it's rolled out in large scale. And without doing that, people think things went to academia to die. Yeah. Um, for sure. And even things that we do move forward with, we've got to be faster.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Yep. And I think that's, you know, that happened in healthcare too during the pandemic. We'd been talking about virtual visits, I think, for 20 years prior to the pandemic, and all of a sudden overnight, we turned them on. So you were forced to make a decision. And it's the same thing in academics.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Oh, yeah, online education for programs and courses that no one thought could or should be delivered online. From K through 12 systems through through higher ed, we were immediately forced. And and I can't say that it was done well with zero notice to flip everything one line, especially it during the spring of 2020, but given a little bit more time to plan and to think about how to reenvision the way we deliver components of our curriculum, there's been a surge of online degrees offered, including pharmacy.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Yeah. And I think that's really important because it's giving opportunity to a lot of people who have never had the opportunity to pursue these careers before. So that's something unique that the pandemic has given us, and your university and your college under your leadership has really taken hold of and excelled at, um, which really makes your college stand apart from others.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Well, thank you. It's it is a rewarding experience. It has been a ton of work, honestly, to think about the entire program and reenvision how it's delivered. But there have been many heartwarming stories about individuals who are doing an amazing job as students who, without this type of education being offered, would never have been able to pursue this as their career.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

That's great. And what cool experience they bring, life experience they bring to the program then too. Oh, they change the classroom. Absolutely. So again, you know, back to innovation, right? The real question there is we talked a little bit about old guard of let's marinate on this idea for a while. We we love to evaluate and we love to marinate, but we need to create some action. So, how do you balance innovation with tradition, honoring what works while still pushing for change?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Well, I'll just give one one example, and I think it's not ripping away everything that people enjoyed, what they enjoyed about their job and taking it completely away, telling them they must do something different. Um they're where they are, hopefully for a reason, and hopefully that reason is that they there's something they enjoy about where they are. Um, I think traditional, well, I know traditional on-campus higher education is is shrinking. And that's what my people enjoy. They like being in the classroom with with young people straight out of high school, but that population is shrinking dramatically. And if we rely solely on continuing to do just that, we won't exist anymore. So we can maintain that to a certain degree, but we must do other things too, or we won't get to do anything at all. So I think the thread that I would pull forward that maybe is more universal is when you make changes, think about what it is that the people enjoy. What is it about their job or their position that's enjoyable to them? Can you salvage that, even if it looks a little bit different, and help thread that into something new?

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Yeah, I love that. I've heard that before mentioned is understand your why, right? So if you know the team's why, you can help them cross that bridge into an innovative idea while still respecting their reason for being in that profession or serving those patients or those students. So I think that's that's important no matter what facet of leadership you're in. You know, when I think about balance too, I think that balance of innovation with tradition is something women leaders especially wrestle with. I know when you started as dean, there were very few female deans throughout the United States. Knowing that you were one of the the trendsetters or set the bar for a lot of the other women, did that have any effect on your leadership style or did that create any feelings that you had to represent women especially well in those rooms that were full of men who were deans and leaders throughout uh healthcare leadership and university leadership?

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Yes, definitely. I mean, it has changed dramatically in the last decade. Now, when I'm in um national conferences, there are many, many female deans. But you know, even a decade ago, I was the first and only female dean in the state. And when I would convene with others, again, there was that feeling of self-doubt and insecurity in the feeling that I needed to really bring my A games. Yeah. I couldn't just show up and be relaxed. I mean, and I had something to prove that I was qualified, that I was smart and quick and could ask thoughtful questions. So I feel like I had to work harder to be at the same seat.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

You know, we've done some readings in the healthcare she suite before that talks about that, and that women, especially women who are kind of taking the first step into a male-dominated field, often feel like they have to give more and be more because of that imposter syndrome. So I think one of the takeaways from today is you're qualified, you should be there, you were chosen for a reason. So know that going into those meetings.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Yeah, I had an associate dean tell me there was no way I could do it.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Because I was married and had children, and that a dean's job was to be the first one there in the morning and the last one to leave at night. Yeah. Unless I wanted to give up on my family and kids, or not do a very good job as a dean. This just wasn't gonna work out. Wow. Yeah. And you've been dean for how many years?

Skills Women Need To Lead

SPEAKER_01 20:12

About 10 now. So it's worked out. I know you think so. They're all successful and well adjusted, so I don't think you failed anyone. So that's great. So, you know, your whole career is has been innovative, but you've also focused on developing future leaders. No matter where you've been throughout your career, you have developed leaders. You're a mentor of mine and always have been. One of the health things the healthcare She Suite focuses on is preparing women not to just succeed, but to lead boldly. So when you look at students and emerging professionals today, what leadership skills do you believe are non-negotiable for the future of healthcare?

SPEAKER_00 20:51

I'll pick three. One, strong communication skills. You must be able to verb, and I'll add verbally, it can't just be in writing. You can't just be a strong writer. You have to be a good verbal communicator and to be able to read people's body language and make friends with people in order to be successful. If they don't see you as a colleague, a comrade, um, you're not going to be able to accomplish nearly as much. Sure. So that's that's one big one. The next one I would say is recognizing the strengths of others. I like Teresa, really feel this sense of guilt if I let go of something that's supposed to be my job, or that that I'm that I'm offloading on someone else if I delegate to them, that that I'll be perceived as not having been capable of doing it myself, to the point that I've overwhelmed myself, taking on more than I should. So please do as I say and not as I did. Right. That that is a skill that is important to your success as to being able to recognize the strengths that other people bring to the table. Um and and allow them to be successful. It's enjoyable to them to be given work to do and to be successful in something that's been delegated to them. And the last is closely related is just to to see other people in the room. Yeah. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

I think one of the most important things that you mentioned there and something that I didn't realize until a little later in my career was how valuable it was to emerging leaders to give them opportunities to step up. Even if it's something where you know you could have it fixed in five minutes, give that emerging leader that opportunity so they can learn and use that and you know drive them forward in their careers. Are there skills that you think women leaders specifically would help if they stepped into earlier in their careers?

SPEAKER_00 22:52

I think women leaders to let go of guilt, and I don't know that that's a specific skill set, but to recognize that I think women are more prone to that feeling and to to let go of it. They will be successful sooner if they are seen as someone who's able to delegate to others to work smarter, not harder.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Yep, that's a great point. So we know women are highly represented in healthcare right I think that strikes me that you were the only female dean in Ohio for a long time when what 80% of pharmacy classes are female now? 75%? Yeah. Yeah. So it's not representative not re representative of the pharmacy population and whole, right? No, no it isn't but we know women are highly represented in all forms of healthcare, right? You know, looking at a health system, I've seen statistics that 78, 80% of caregivers are female and when you get to the C-suite, only 8% of the C-suite is female, which is just remarkable when you think about it. That means that women aren't always proportionally represented at decision-making tables and not just women, other minorities as well. From your perspective, what needs to change to accelerate women into senior leadership in healthcare and academic roles?

SPEAKER_00 24:08

This may not be a popular opinion to have, but I think we we will disqualify ourselves sometimes that we'll look at the requirements of a position. And if we don't check every single box to the extent and the depth that we think a person in that position should have, we'll disqualify ourselves. We will not even go for the job. And interestingly that is not always the case with male candidate. They're like, you know what? I sure I check most of those boxes and they'll go for it. And so I do think that there are barriers, don't get me wrong, but I think that we will be the ones to disqualify ourselves sometimes by not stepping forward and saying you know what I have just as much experience as the other people applying for this position. Let them tell me I don't let me make the case for myself why I can be effective in this role. So the thing that is in our control entirely is that yep that's a that's a great one to mention.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

And we've talked about that before in the healthcare she suite as well that men are more willing to step out and take risks when they may be 60, 70% less qualified than a female for a position. And it's something that starts early in life. It's not something that we grow into as females. So that's something that we need to continue to work on and know that we have just as much qualification as a male counterpart to seek out these leadership roles. How do you think women leaders can support each other without falling into competition or scarcity thinking because you know I've worked with female leaders too where it's been competitive and more competitive than it would have been necessarily with a male colleague for rules. So how do you think we can support each other in those situations?

SPEAKER_00 26:06

I think a huge thing that doesn't take away from anyone it's just amplifying someone's voice. If there's another woman in the room and and she has an opinion or makes a statement amplifying it acknowledging that that statement came from her especially if it's repeated by others that who said it first, whose opinion you know originate this this idea or this concept or this recommendation came came from and um amplifying each other is huge.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Yep I think that's so important to mention that we have to lift each other up and that's the whole point of the healthcare she suite right is to provide support for those female leaders who are currently in leadership positions or those who desire to be Deborah I want to do a rapid fire session.

Rapid Fire And Final Push

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

All right you ready for this? Yeah. All right first thing that comes to mind a book every leader should read.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

I know this is rapid I'm not gonna I'm not gonna quote a leadership book The Help. I love the book The Help. It's about seeing people and and recognize the impact that they have on others regardless of their role.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

I love that and you know what I think that's a great point because we're both big readers right there's value to reading books there's value to reading leadership books but there's also value to just reading and I think that's that's a big point there. And the help is a perfect example of the value of seeing each other and also if you've read the book about how not to make a pie. So important things. One word that defines great leadership humility. That's a great one best advice you'd have ever received you're enough that's great.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Excellent and then one thing you wish someone would have told you earlier in your career there's someone that I admire very much who keeps this mantra on his mirror and I love it. It's it's kindness is not weakness. Oh I love that I think sometimes individuals are begin to think that they need to flex maybe to step on others to show their power I love that so with that we're gonna close today and I'd like to ask one more question.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

What advice would you give to women listening today who are considering stepping into leadership but aren't sure that they're ready there's never perfect time.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

If you're waiting for all the stars to align and to feel like you are a hundred percent prepared and everything in your personal life and professional life is in order that will never come. Do it now.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Yeah I think your career is a perfect example of that. You started and and took opportunities to be president of OPA when you had little kids and moved into a deanship when your kids were were super busy with all kinds of school activities and you seem to be someone who can do it all. So I think that's that's a great thing to mention and we need to make sure that we remember that leadership isn't about perfection. It's about courage and commitment and bringing your whole self to your leadership every day. So Dean Parker I want to thank you for sharing your wisdom your journey and your heart with the healthcare she suite we are so grateful for your leadership and the impact you're making every day and personally for the impact you make on me every day. So to our listeners thank you for being part of this community and until Jen rejoins us keep leading keep inspiring and keep shaping the future of healthcare