Episode 8 - BUILDING RESILIENCE, HEALING BURNOUT: INSIGHTS FROM LYNNE LEGGETT

Content Warning: A note about the theme of this episode.

This episode discusses topics related to burnout and mental health and includes a brief mention of suicide. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is struggling, you are not alone. Help is available. Please contact the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline by calling or texting 988, or visit 988lifeline.org for free, confidential support 24/7. Additionally, long-term support can be found through the SafeHaven Program by visiting safehavenhealth.org/enroll/vda

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SUMMARY: In this episode, host Karen Wood interviews Lynne Leggett, a dental practice management coach with over 25 years of experience, and the owner of Victory Dental Management. They discuss the definition of burnout, its differences from stress and overwhelm, and its signs and symptoms. They also delve into preventive measures, the importance of defining office culture, and the critical role of leadership in managing and preventing burnout. Additionally, they highlight the significance of mental health support mechanisms like SafeHaven legislation. 

HOST: Karen Wood manages the VDA Member Perks program. She has been in the dental field for over 20 years, having experience as a dental assistant, managing a periodontal practice, and working with dental teams as a sales consultant and trainer.  

GUEST(S): Lynne Leggett, BS, FAADOM, is the Founder & CEO of Victory Dental Management, bringing over 25 years of diverse business experience across dentistry, healthcare, sales, logistics, and project management. Known for her coaching-driven leadership style, Lynne draws from her background as a basketball coach to help dental professionals build high-performing teams, not just manage employees. Her insights are featured in Dental Economics, Dental Products Report, DentistryIQ, DeW Life, Dr. Bicuspid, and more. She’s the author of “You Can’t Coach Quit” and publishes the Coach’s Corner newsletter.

Instagram: bballcoach12 

Facebook: VictoryDentalManagement 

Twitter: @LynneLeggett12

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynne-leggett-17173614/

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

VDA Member Perks

Victory Dental Management

SafeHaven

Virginia Dental Showcase

American Association of Dental Office Managers (AADOM)

EPISODE CREDITS

Producer: Paul Logan

Host: Karen Wood

Guest(s): Lynne Leggett

Post-Production/Editor: Shannon Jacobs

Subscribe, share, and send your feedback and topic ideas to thefulcrumpodcast@vadental.org.

The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional, medical, or legal advice.

Music in this episode from Epidemic Sound

Transcript

Content Warning: A note about the theme of this episode.

This episode discusses topics related to burnout and mental health and includes a brief mention of suicide. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is struggling, you are not alone. Help is available. Please contact the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by calling or texting 988, or visit 988lifeline.org for free, confidential support 24/7. Additionally, long-term support can be found through the SafeHaven Program by visiting safehavenhealth.org/enroll/vda

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[00:00:18] Karen Wood: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Virginia Dental Association's podcast, The Fulcrum. My name is Karen Wood, and I'm the Director of Operations for VDA Member Perks, which is the member benefit program for all VDA members.

[00:00:30] Karen Wood: May is Mental Health Awareness Month. It's an annual observance, started to raise awareness and reduce stigma surrounding mental health, as well as promote support and access to treatment. Dentistry as a profession has its share of stress, which, of course, can take a toll on someone's mental health. And while it's easy to acknowledge it, there's room for improvement for all of us, myself included, to recognize when that stress is really affecting you. So, what do you do when you realize you may need to make some changes to protect your mental health? This is what we're going to discuss today with our special guest, Lynne Leggett. She's a seasoned dental practice management coach with over 25 years of experience and the owner of Victory Dental Management, as well as a lifetime member of AADOM (American Association of Dental Office Managers). So welcome, Lynn. We're excited to speak with you today, and are you gonna give us the magic formula for work-life balance and a stress-free life? 

[00:01:15] Lynne Leggett: Absolutely. Thank you so much, Karen, for the invite. You know, I'm glad that we talk about mental health, and May is the month that we talk about that. But there's so many things that wrap up into mental health, breaking that down into different segments and different things. But I think we wanna focus more on burnout, unless you bring me back to a different question.

[00:01:36] Karen Wood: I think they're all related.

[00:01:37] Lynne Leggett: I think they are, too, because I think a lot of people use the word burnout, and they actually don't mean that word.

[00:01:42] Karen Wood: Right.

[00:01:43] Lynne Leggett: And you've seen me speak on this before, there's a big difference between stress and overwhelm, or burnout and stress.

[00:01:49] Karen Wood: Mm-hmm.

[00:01:49] Lynne Leggett: Let's classify it that way. I think it really depends on how we want to define it. To make sure we're all on the same page, let me define burnout. So, burnout it's the state of emotional, physical, and mental exhaustion caused by excessive and prolonged stress, which is a really, really long definition. But the easiest way to think about it is there are three segments. One is exhaustion from caring too much for too long. One is detachment, which is there's no empathy or compassion, 'cause you've lost that, if you're suffering from burnout. And the other one is no sense of accomplishment, you're feeling like nothing you do makes a difference. So, with that being the definition of burnout, there is a big difference between that and overwhelm and stress. Overwhelm is, if I just have another hour, I can get everything done. If I can do X, I can get Y. If I'm able to focus more, things will get better, things will get easier for me, that's overwhelm. Burnout is you don't care. The empathy's gone. There's no willingness or motivation to do that extra time, and you don't think you can get things better. That's where the feeling of hopelessness comes from, if you're actually burned out, per se. There's a perception that it's cool to say you're suffering from burnout. There's nothing cool about that. But I just wanted to make sure we're all on the same page when it comes to definitions. 

[00:03:10] Karen Wood: That's, that's next level, 'cause we throw that word around, you know, I'm just burnt out. And whether you're a single mom or a stay-at-home mom or, traveling all the time for work. It's like that word just comes out all the time. But it sounds like it's got a lot of deeper levels to that where you're probably changing your psyche a little bit if you're just don't care anymore. 

[00:03:28] Lynne Leggett: Absolutely. I mean, think about dentistry, and it doesn't matter if you're a dentist or a team member, we're filled with very caring people, or we wouldn't be doing what we're doing.

[00:03:37] Karen Wood: Right.

[00:03:38] Lynne Leggett: So, you take that personality type and you match it with. I don't care. There's that internal struggle, and that struggle is really real. 

[00:03:47] Karen Wood: Right. So, it, if most people that are in dentistry and especially the dentist, everything is like watchmaking. It's very particular, it's perfection. How does that strive to perfection and always worrying about that, high quality, affect you leading into burnout? 

[00:04:05] Lynne Leggett: I always love to call that the P word perfection 'cause that's what everybody wants to strive for. But let's divide it. Clinical. You can be perfectionist oriented when it comes to your clinical work, which there's nothing you can say that's gonna make a dentist change their mind, 'cause that's what they're used to.

[00:04:20] Karen Wood: Which is good.

[00:04:21] Lynne Leggett: Exactly. Which is what we really want. Yeah.

[00:04:23] Karen Wood: We want that.

[00:04:23] Lynne Leggett: That's applauded. Absolutely. But then, when we're talking about the team aspect or dealing with people, please do not let perfection be your goal because you will always be disappointed. That's just the way that it is when you're dealing with human beings. So, I think that's a distinction right off the bat, because if you are a dentist owner, you are wearing so many hats between head clinician and then having to be the owner of the practice and a business owner, you're looking for perfection, and you're never gonna find it. Again, you're dealing with people. So, it really depends on the scope that we're looking at, and I think that's where burnout sort of comes in layers. It's one thing to deal with the clinical, and you know, from a business standpoint, that's what always trips people up and that's what causes the most stress.

[00:05:10] Karen Wood: I'm just thinking the dentist has so many hats to wear, and they've got all this responsibility, and they move through their day of patients. And are they, do you find that the one, the dentist you work with, are they able to recognize like a sign of burnout in one of their team members?

[00:05:23] Lynne Leggett: Only if they are that observant that they can start seeing it. Because what happens is if the dentist owner is stressed, then the team's gonna be stressed. And I'll get into leadership a lot with this. The dentist is the leader of the team, or, I like to say, the head coach. So, if you have an office manager, they would be your assistant coach. They're going to mimic what they see, what they hear, because if somebody's stressed about cash flow, everybody's gonna feel it and then automatically turn to this level of going, do I have to worry about my job? We go from zero to sixty really fast with something like that. So, if they know what to look for within their team members, looking at people who normally care, and all of a sudden, they don't care anymore. Or they're sicker. They can get a cold, and it lasts for a really long time. They're always tired. I mean, there are physical symptoms that you can look at and see if they're suffering, or you think that there's a concern that you need to address. 

[00:06:20] Karen Wood: So, a team member doesn't have the responsibility on their shoulders that the dentist has, obviously, or even the office manager for most places. What's gonna trigger burnout for a front office person or an insurance coordinator? Where are they finding that the job is creating the burnout?

[00:06:35] Lynne Leggett: Great question because everybody's role is gonna be a little different in how they handle it. So, burnout is a work phenomenon. That's where it starts, is in the workplace. But what happens is there's not enough clarity in the office to know, this is my role and responsibility. When you don't have roles and responsibilities clearly identified for everybody in the office, then they start wondering, what am I doing?, How do I prioritize? 'Cause they're getting hit with so many things. I mean, thinking with the front admin team, they're hit with so many different things. What's the priority? Is it the patient in front of me? Is it the phone? Is it doing insurance verification? You can have all kinds of different things, cloud that judgment, but clarity within their role and responsibility is the first thing that you should be looking for, because then they're not sure what they're doing.

[00:07:19] Karen Wood: We talk about work-life balance all the time, and I don't know if any of us really understand how to achieve that. Maybe you do, I know I don't sometimes, but is that something that affects your role in the office that can contribute to enough stress where you are going past overwhelm feeling into burnout?

[00:07:36] Lynne Leggett: The majority of the time when we're awake, we're at work. And if that is a stressful area or if that is bringing somebody stress and overwhelm, and then you add to it something happening at home. 'Cause you're right. Work-life balance. Everybody talks about, it's a goal. I like to look at it as it's a season. What season are you in? 'Cause sometimes you're going to give, sometimes you're gonna take, so don't look at it like it's fifty/fifty. It will never be that way. 

[00:07:58] Karen Wood: Yeah. 

[00:07:59] Lynne Leggett: For me, it's different with an aging parent, or the kids being out of the house now. So, it's different if I have a school-aged child versus now I'm working and I don't have that responsibility at home, occupying my time and thoughts. So, it just depends on where they are. But you're absolutely right, the more layers there are. Or the more stress in their personal life is just going to make the work stress worse. 

[00:08:22] Karen Wood: Yeah, I mean, I have no complaints with my work history. I've had some great opportunities. I've worked for some great offices. I always would walk in the door and be like, okay, this is my eight hours away from anything that is at home, that's bothering me. And I always would try to teach that when I was managing a practice. But not everybody can separate those things, so it's just really important to have that conversation. And also, for maybe an office manager to be maybe a little more elevated in looking for signs of burnout. So, we don't have turnover that's unnecessary, because maybe we didn't have those policies and job descriptions laid out to begin with. 'Cause as we know, turnovers very expensive.

[00:08:55] Lynne Leggett: Exactly.

[00:08:55] Karen Wood: And people are not disposable. 

[00:08:57] Lynne Leggett: No, they're not. And that's where that's gonna be your competitive advantage. If everything else is equal, it's how you're being treated, how you feel when you come to the practice, and it's your team that's gonna make that difference. So, they're a huge investment for any owner of any practice. But then at the same time, it's putting your resources into them and making sure that things are running smoothly. Because if you don't have clarity and roles and responsibilities in everybody's, all of this stuff we think about, but we never wanna take the time to actually write down all of those procedures and different things serve a purpose. And if those aren't done and the practice isn't organized, really, 'cause the more organized you can be, the less turnover you're gonna face.

[00:09:34] Karen Wood: Right.

[00:09:35] Lynne Leggett: Which is what everybody wants.

[00:09:36] Karen Wood: Oh, of course. And I met you through a local AADOM meeting a couple years ago, and your course was very eye-opening to me 'cause I didn't realize kind of where I was with that. But your, your course is called " Resilience, RX Healing Burnout." So, tell me, what does resilience mean in the context of burnout? 

[00:09:56] Lynne Leggett: I think things happen to people all the time, but can you pick yourself up, and can you continue going on? To me, that's resilience. Are you learning from what's happening, or are you allowing yourself to sort of stay in the swamp, if you will?

[00:10:11] Karen Wood: So, do you find that offices address this on a regular basis, or do you just come into a practice, as a consultant, and realize, oh, I, I see what's going on here. 

[00:10:20] Lynne Leggett: They don't address it at all because they're busy doing dentistry and supporting their doctors when it comes to doing the work that they're supposed to do. So, most of the time, they don't even have the lens to look at it and see that it's a problem, because once they think it's a problem, it's been a problem for a while. It didn't just start. But everybody's so busy. And then if you don't have enough team members, then that just makes everything worse because now you've got less people doing more work and you're so busy. You're busy, but are you productive, and are you healthy while you're doing it, that’s a different way of looking at it. 

[00:10:55] Karen Wood: Yeah. And I think we talk about mental health, like the stigma's kind of been lowered.

[00:10:59] Lynne Leggett: Yeah.

[00:11:00] Karen Wood: Has it? I mean, we have legislation in place to help dentists be able to go get help without a compromise to their license. Are you finding that, the dentist or, the office manager is able to recognize when there's a mental health issue and be able to have that conversation? Or is that crossing an HR line? 

[00:11:18] Lynne Leggett: I think it depends on the individual if they're willing to admit that there is a problem. Because if you take a person who is used to being a perfectionist, half the time, they're not even realizing there's a problem until it's too late. And then it really is, a serious situation very quickly. I've had two dentists that just followed me on social media. Didn't work with me at all, and the phone call I got from each of them, they were suicidal at that particular moment. So, we had to work through that and get them the resources that they needed. It's just are they willing to seek help? Do they realize there's a problem? Most of the time, it's one thing about being a business owner and a dentist, but if they're married, how's their home life? It's not just one thing; it's multiple layers. It's there's fear of something. There could be fear of stigma that, you know, everything's perfect. Nothing to see here, don't look behind the curtain. That kind of thing. And that happens more than most might think about.

[00:12:14] Karen Wood: I can see that, especially with women, we tend to be like that.

[00:12:18] Lynne Leggett: I think that's a natural thing for women. Absolutely. But I think male dentists have a lot of that too, that everything is perfect and rosy, and I don't have any problems. I don't have any stress and everything's fine at home when, that's never gonna be true. Everybody's facing a different amount of stress, and things can be different, causing all of that. But I hope that they know that there are resources out there because. I've been speaking on this for three years and writing articles before then. So, a lot of it started during COVID that people had a moment to sit back and almost breathe and say what's important to me. I think a lot of people had some refocusing that they did, certainly during COVID.

[00:12:54] Karen Wood: Now, do you find that there's an intentional way about balancing all the hats that someone wears? And I know we're talking about the dentist, which is of course super important, but there's a lot of hats on office managers too.

[00:13:06] Lynne Leggett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:13:06] Karen Wood: And the whole team. Like you said, you're either down a person one day or maybe you're down a person for a while, and then, you know, it's a team. They all pitch in to help each other. May not be the happiest about it. It's difficult, but, you know, it's how do you be intentional about balancing everything that you've got going on when everything is just so stressful every single day for, you know, I, I don't know how, what period of time you can endure it, whether it's, a week where someone's on vacation or you're trying to fill a position.

[00:13:34] Lynne Leggett: I think that really goes back to the culture that the dentist is trying to create in their practice. I've heard people tell me, Oh, that's the feels. I said, No, it's a whole lot more than the feels.

[00:13:43] Karen Wood: Right.

[00:13:43] Lynne Leggett: You know, it's structural, it's planning, it's preparation. It's all of these things that if you've done the right way or you've created it the right way. Now I think we overcomplicate. You know me very well, Karen. We, we overcomplicate things in life. So, to me, when we talk about culture, we're talking about when it comes to human behavior, what's acceptable and what's unacceptable. Everybody else can have like three-pages definition of culture. It doesn't have to be that hard, but the question is, is it okay for somebody to walk by in the hall and see a piece of trash and not pick it up? Well, of course not. But it depends on what you're building in your practice. If you've got team members, if you're calling them staff and not team, that's a big difference. Words matter, 

[00:14:23] Karen Wood: Right. 

[00:14:23] Lynne Leggett: To me, it's a respect issue. So, the trash is a good example, or literally taking out the trash, are we gonna force the assistants to do that all the time. Or if everybody's pitching in before everybody leaves, is everybody leaving at the same time? Or is somebody saying, I'm done. Everything I'm going to do today; I'm out the door.

[00:14:39] Karen Wood: Right.

[00:14:39] Lynne Leggett: Because whatever's out the door is more important than taking care of the practice and getting ready for the next day. That's a easy thing to do, but is that behavior accepted? So, it goes back to, decide as a team what is acceptable. It will be amazing what falls in each category. 

[00:14:58] Karen Wood: Well, that's interesting. So, do you find that an office that has defined the culture for the office, that the team members stay there longer because of the culture. And you find that there's less burnout, less stress in the office 'cause they've had the conversation and define the culture. 'Cause everything about burnout, it's not just fixing it, it's preventing it.

[00:15:17] Lynne Leggett: Exactly.

[00:15:18] Karen Wood: You know, it's a lot easier to prevent something than to, to go back and fix it. 'Cause I'm sure it gets very tangled or deep. I personally, after you describe what burnout is, where maybe I thought I was burned out in the past, I was not, I was more in that overwhelmed stressed out period. But if someone could prevent that from their team, and themselves. How do they go about doing that with defining the culture? 

[00:15:37] Lynne Leggett: A quick answer is yes; you prevent burnout by creating the culture that you want. But it goes back to the planning. What are you doing together as a practice? What is your philosophy of practicing dentistry? What vision do you have? What are your core values? What is acceptable? What isn't acceptable? So, when you start putting all of these things together, which is what I do with clients all the time, it brings meaning and preparation. Bringing like-mindedness together, which is half the problem because people are switching practices 'cause they're actually looking for the right culture for them. That's why the turnover is there. If you have a reactionary leader that has the old way of doing things, more command-and-control model, which most dentists fall into that category because that's where they're comfortable because nothing else has been mirrored for them or taught them. How do you lead? I wanna teach them how do you coach, how do you coach your team? And that has to do with preparation. And part of that preparation in the practice environment is going to be listening to those things that I said previously and holding people accountable to that.

[00:16:42] Karen Wood: So, you said coaching, and I played sports growing up. Your coach talks to the team as a whole, but then a good coach, from my experience, also addresses the individual people that are on the team. 'Cause you're all collectively together, but you're all very individual, you know, your own backgrounds and goals in life. So, do you work with your clients on that aspect of identifying individual or is it just everything's team? 

[00:17:07] Lynne Leggett: Team and individual because, you're gonna wanna make sure that the individual is contributing to the most that they can and bringing out their potential. A lot of it is seeing the potential within your team members, but again, the dentist as the leader is so busy with so many things, they have to be purposeful and say, I need to start paying attention to this. And the more they can focus on the nonclinical, the easier that leadership and coaching's going to be. But yes, I do work with my clients on coaching the dentist but also coaching them on what they can do within an individual and the team. So, it has to be both. 

[00:17:40] Karen Wood: Do you recommend that the dentist and the office manager work together on that?

[00:17:43] Lynne Leggett: Absolutely.

[00:17:44] Karen Wood: Okay.

[00:17:44] Lynne Leggett: So, the head coach is the doctor, the office manager is the assistant coach. 'Cause there's some things, depending on how big your team is, let's say D one versus D three. If you're going to have multiple coaches, you're gonna need your assistant coach to do certain things. The head coach can't do it all. So when, the doctor's in the operatory, then it's gonna be the office manager to see how things are going. So, you can see how it just flows between the head coach, the assistant coach or doctor, office manager, how all of that flows within the team. And the accountability part is the biggest part. That and implementation. That's why you need to make sure everybody is on the same team.

[00:18:21] Karen Wood: If you see someone's having a problem, what can a dentist do to support them?

[00:18:26] Lynne Leggett: First of all, you need to figure out if there's something they can help 'em with. You gotta ask. And you need to know your people. You need to understand and get to know your team on that kind of level. And some people are scared to do that because that means they're gonna be vulnerable, but vulnerability actually is strength. The more that you can have those conversations, the more that they see that you care. You're not just there clocking in and helping their patients, you're involved, and you want to know. It's all about time. Time and preparation and what you need to spend your time on, on the nonclinical. I've never had a client up to this point of talking to you that hasn't put enough time into their clinical work. What's happening is if they put the same amount of time in the nonclinical part of their practice, they would not be having the problems that they're having if they knew where to spend their time.

[00:19:10] Karen Wood: You've got a lot of dentists that are very dedicated to volunteerism outside of their practice. Whether it's a church, sports for their children or a community association, that they're participating in and being a leader in that role. So, a lot of times at five o'clock they are looking to run out the door.

[00:19:26] Lynne Leggett: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:27] Karen Wood: So, do you recommend a frequency of team meetings or maybe team outings to help foster that culture? 

[00:19:34] Lynne Leggett: You need to change your surroundings and people are gonna act a certain way in the office because that's their professional environment and you like them to, if you will, let their hair down when they're outside of the office and really get to know people because that's going to help build that cohesiveness between individuals. 'Cause that's really what you're doing. You're taking a group of people that are working together and you're trying to create a team from that. So, time is needed, you gotta get to know each other and doing fun stuff outside of the office. And you're right, we all live very, very busy lives. So, it really has to be intentional when you want to get together as a team and focus on these things. But I think one of the things, you mentioned everybody trying to run out the door because there's practice, there's picking kids up.

[00:20:15] Karen Wood: Yeah, sure.

[00:20:15] Lynne Leggett: I totally get all that.

[00:20:16] Karen Wood: Yeah, it's busy.

[00:20:18] Lynne Leggett: And then in the morning, you're sort of stuck between, well, I don't wanna start at a certain time because everybody's having to bring their kids to school or the bus stop or whatever. So, you need to sit down it, and the dentist can talk about this with their team. Have a lunch bring, you know. Not pizza, I think everybody's pizza out, but bring food in, and just have a conversation. Say, this is what I'm thinking about, because the more open you are as the leader. The more your team's gonna go, oh hey, I actually do have a voice. 'Cause some people don't think they have a voice in any of this, and everybody has an opinion. You just gotta ask them in the right way. 

[00:20:50] Karen Wood: Oh, I have lots. 

[00:20:50] Lynne Leggett: Me too. 

[00:20:52] Karen Wood: That's, you know, that's all the prevention, there is a, point in time where unfortunately you mentioned that sad situation with those dentists that were, contemplating their lives.

[00:21:01] Lynne Leggett: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:01] Karen Wood: So, Virginia recently added dentists and dental hygienists to its SafeHaven legislation. Because too often healthcare providers, including dentists, they're suffering in silence and they're faced with very real concerns about the team members that rely on them, the patients that depend on them, their family and concern for anything that could threaten the status of their license and allows them to practice. How do you help dentists seek the care they need and addresses very real concerns? 

[00:21:26] Lynne Leggett: First of all, I'm really glad that the SafeHaven is around, and I think people need to think about it as support there for them. I would not want somebody who needs help not to get help because they were afraid of, like you said, losing their license or different things. That's the whole reason why the legislation was put together. Being able to admit that they need help is, I hate to say the first step, but it really is because if you don't think you have a problem, then you're not gonna seek help. So far, 98% of the dentists that have done burnout coaching with me have not been burned out. They've been very stressed and overwhelmed and the one that needed help, we got him help and everything has worked out very well for him. So, understanding the stigma isn't there like it used to be, if it was 10 years ago, this, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[00:22:15] Karen Wood: Right.

[00:22:16] Lynne Leggett: 'Cause there's like, there's nothing to see here. We're just gonna suffer in silence, like you said before. But now it's realizing there's so many different avenues to be able to get help. I mean, I have a custom burnout program that I can help dentist with. But at the same time, I think a lot of them have a mentor or, really close friends because dentistry is a tight-knit group. Everybody knows everybody in their locality. And a lot of times dentists like to talk to other dentists because no one else understands what it's like.

[00:22:42] Karen Wood: Yeah. Especially if you're a private practice owner.

[00:22:44] Lynne Leggett: Sure.

[00:22:44] Karen Wood: You're the only one in there with that level of stress and anxiety that you really can't share with your staff because that's not a healthy thing to put on their shoulders. So, it's a tough spot to be in and we always encourage dentists, especially the younger dentists, to build your network.

[00:22:59] Lynne Leggett: Absolutely

[00:22:59] Karen Wood: Find, find your people that can support you when you have an issue. 'Cause they've probably been through it before. 

[00:23:04] Lynne Leggett: And that's something that, I think it's okay to reach out to other people and if they don't feel like they can or they really want that, anonymity with all of that, then reach out. I'm always here to help them. And there are other people within the state that can help as well. 

[00:23:16] Karen Wood: Yeah. Like I said, when I met you was at your burnout course and through an AADOM meeting. And there were so many, not just office managers, but office team members.

[00:23:23] Lynne Leggett: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:24] Karen Wood: And everyone kind of grouped together and had these conversations. So, it's just a very healthy way to deal with this. It's been so great to speak with you and have you share these pointers to help our VDA members recognize and do something about burnout that they themselves, as dentists or one of their team members, may be experiencing. Mental health is such an important topic. We are also fortunate to have Lynne speaking at our annual Showcase in Norfolk on September 26th and 27th. For anyone interested in attending her session at the meeting, it is titled "Resilience RX Healing Burnout," and details and registration will be available very soon, so stay tuned. We'll be on the VDA website at vadental.org, and this might be a good team outing to go to Norfolk.

[00:24:04] Lynne Leggett: Absolutely. Um, I'm really looking forward and thank you so much for the invitation to be able to speak in September because it's all about helping those that need help. 

[00:24:11] Karen Wood: Yeah. And we'll have your contact information for, you and Victory Dental Management it'll all be in the show notes, and we really appreciate our, listeners taking the time to be here. Hope that you found this information helpful and look forward to you joining us again for the next episode of The Fulcrum.

[00:24:25] Paul Logan: Thank you for joining us for this episode of The Fulcrum Podcast. If you found it valuable, please leave a review and help others discover it. The Fulcrum is a podcast of the Virginia Dental Association., Please send your comments and ideas for future topics to thefulcrumpodcast@vadental.org