The Virtuosity Podcast

Culture Transformation From Within with Jennifer Bitz

• Virtuosity Character • Season 1 • Episode 9

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What does it take to drive real culture transformation in large, complex organizations—especially from the inside? Jennifer Bitz—public sector leader, systems thinker, and long-time practitioner of character-based leadership—joins us to share how she’s been reshaping culture across four major institutions by embedding character at every level.

🧠 What you’ll hear:
🏛️ How character is the foundational piece in culture change—not an add-on
🌐 Why lasting transformation requires both individual and systemic development
📍The surprising importance of intuition in system-level change
🪞 How culture is shaped by what leaders model (even when they’re unaware)
🎖️ Why rewards and recognition can be a powerful leverage point for shifting culture
🔁 What happens when awareness is paired with daily development
⚖️ Why “too much of a good thing” can derail a culture
💬 How character-based diagnostics reveal what values statements can’t
📱 The impact of the Virtuosity app—even for a seasoned character leader

If you're working to align culture, leadership, and performance—this conversation offers practical insight and deep inspiration.

Resources

  •  First Follower: Leadership Lessons from Dancing Guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ)
  •  Diagnosing and strategically implementing a character-based culture (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ltl.20898)
  •  Character Quotient Assessment in Forbes (https://www.forbes.com/sites/marycrossan/2025/03/26/from-good-to-great-10-ways-to-elevate-your-character-quotient/)
  •  Leader Character Framework with Culture, Virtues, and Vices (https://virtuositycharacter.ca/organization/storage_production_6e2934b8-3e20-47a7-aa79-59a612f967be/990340a0-9980-4919-9456-ab5640b405a0.pdf)

About Virtuosity

• Website (https://virtuositycharacter.ca/)
• Monthly Newsletter (https://mailchi.mp/virtuositycharacter/subscribe-to-the-virtuosity-monthly-newsletter)
• LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/virtuosity-character)
• Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/virtuositycharacter/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=)

Host, Dr Corey Crossan (https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreycrossan/), is a research and teaching fellow at The Oxford Character Project where she develops and facilitates character development programs for students, industry, and university partners. Corey’s love for elite performance developed as she competed in top-level athletics for most of her life, highlighted by competing as a NCAA Division 1 athlete. Corey translated her understanding of elite performance into a passion for helping individuals and organizations develop sustained excellence. She is also the co-founder of Virtuosity Character, a mobile software application created to support the daily, deliberate practice of character-based leadership development.

Corey Crossan [00.00.09]
Every choice builds character. On the Virtuosity Podcast, we explore how to make every day a rep toward excellence. I'm Corey, your host and co-founder of Virtuosity.

My journey into character development began in sport, where I discovered that strengthening character didn’t just improve performance—it transformed my life. Since then, I’ve been driven to understand how we can intentionally build character to fuel both personal and professional success.

At Virtuosity, we believe character is like a muscle—it needs consistent training. That’s why we built a research-based system that acts as your character gym, making character development practical, scalable, and accessible, even within large organizations.

On this podcast, we sit down with participants from our flagship Virtuosity program, where individuals commit to a full year of daily character development. Our guests share why character matters to them, how they apply it in their lives, and the insights they’ve gained. We hope these conversations challenge, inspire, and equip you to integrate character into your own journey.

Subscribe to stay updated on our weekly episodes. And if something resonates, share it with your friends and colleagues. Ready to start your own Virtuosity journey? Download the Virtuosity Character app or visit us online. Now, let’s dive into today’s episode.

Hello everyone and welcome to the ninth episode of the Virtuosity podcast! If you're new, I encourage you to check out our launch episode with Mary Crossan for a powerful introduction to the series. Today, we’re thrilled to welcome Jennifer Bitz as our guest.

After completing a science degree in chemistry at Queen’s University, Jenn quickly realized she would not be happy working in a lab with beakers. She needed to work with people. Jenn pursued a career in the public service and found her way into leadership positions early on. She began observing and studying the impact of leaders on their employees, and on their team’s values and culture. This was meaningful to Jenn because she believes our citizens can rightly expect our public institutions to do no harm, and to perform at their best in service of society.

When Jenn discovered the research behind character leadership at the Ivey School of Business, this was her missing piece. She learned that the character of the leaders shapes the institution’s culture. For just over a decade now, Jenn has explored these concepts by leading character-driven culture transformation within four organizations. She has witnessed the direct link between character, culture and performance.

She is a certified practitioner of Leader Character, Human Systems, and Prosci Change Management, and is currently pursuing accreditation as an Executive Coach at Royal Roads University.

Jen, it's so exciting to have you here and to be talking about expertise that you bring in culture. It seems to be such a hot topic these days. I'm excited to dig in and gain more insights from you. Welcome to the podcast!

Jennifer Bitz [00.03.09]
Thank you very much Corey. So happy to be here.

Corey Crossan [00.03.11]
The question I always start with all our guests is: Why does character matter to you?

Jennifer Bitz [00.03.18]
Character matters to me because it's a language and a theory that helps me make sense of being human. It allows me to understand what makes us tick, why we succeed or fail, why relationships thrive or fizzle, and what's underneath the world's most intractable issues. It is what distinguishes us as humans from machines.

Corey Crossan [00.03.50]
That’s lovely. It could be in a poem. That really resonates with me too. Character can decode what’s going on with us and help us understand others. It’s so powerful that way. How long have you been a character champion?

Jennifer Bitz [00.04.18]
About 11 years now.

Corey Crossan [00.04.20]
Wow, that’s a long time. Over those 11 years, how has focusing on character impacted your life?

Jennifer Bitz [00.04.37]
It has impacted me in a lot of ways. I think of work initially — I know we'll talk more about that later — but I'll just say now that it has transformed my career, but also my own development. Of course, those two are closely connected. Because it's affected, in a transformative way, my own development, that has affected my leadership at work, my studies, and myself.

It has contributed to me as a mother, as a daughter, as a partner, as an ex-wife, as a co-parent with my ex-husband, and as a friend.

I've noticed that in our society, we emphasize, and it's really accepted, that we invest time, effort, and money into our physical development and intellectual development. But the development of self, of our character, of the emotional and spiritual — the soul — who we are, while we're going through all these other things in our lives, is just as worthy of investment.

I'm a fan of Peter Singer's idea of personal mastery and his idea that when we continually expand our ability to create the results in life that we truly seek, when we invest in our own development and growth, that helps.

It's helped me find a sense of purpose in life, a sense of self-worth. It's helped me see where I'm actually incompetent — I know that's a strong word, but I embrace it — where I'm more ignorant, where I really need to grow, where I'm weaker.

It's helped me to be in continual learning mode and to feel capable of facing difficult problems and relationships, like I was mentioning earlier.

Aiming to achieve what I would have thought were unachievable goals — and not just because I've learned about character-based leadership, but because I'm actually developing my character.

Corey Crossan [00.07.21]
Yeah, that like not just learning about it, but developing it does take it to the next level. And I mean, I should have actually asked you, how has character not impacted your life? Because I feel like you just listed off pretty much everything imaginable and beyond, which I think is so true with character. Like wherever you start, whatever purpose it's for, it just has these ripple effects in every other part of your life.

And I really want to build on the last part that you're talking about, where character has really enabled you to do these really challenging things. And I think in particular in the work that you do, a lot of what you've been doing is around culture transformation, which I think people just think is an impossible job—like, how can you really change culture? Is it possible? How do you do that?

And so really keen to dig into your experiences there. You have a very long experience with this, so I'm hoping that you could actually just start by sharing with the listeners your story of all the different experiences you've had, and then I'll follow up with some more kind of specific questions after we hear your story and experiences.

Jennifer Bitz [00.08.26]
Okay. You just reminded me of one of my favorite sayings, which is, if you think something's impossible, don't interrupt the person who's doing it.

Corey Crossan [00.08.35]
Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Bitz [00.08.39]
Absolutely. Like you say, when my career first started shifting into leading culture change, I thought it was impossible. I had many people tell me that it was too hard, and also kind of questioned my own career path, like, I don't need to just pick something simpler, right?

But I was fortunate to have a few really wonderful mentors and a fantastic support system who helped me see that it was possible and that I could do it.

So I have worked now in leading culture change in four organizations, ranging from about a thousand people to 40,000, and then two in between. I'm still learning and still trying to do.

In every organization, I've tried new things, learned new things, had successes and failures. Each one is a new adventure.

Corey Crossan [00.09.51]
And so, yeah. Do you want to share more about maybe what the aims were or the different experiences that you had in each of those organizations? What went well? What was difficult? Yeah, kind of give us the highlights of each of those four.

Jennifer Bitz [00.10.09]
Mhm. Sure. So, it’s easy to talk about what was difficult first.

The bigger the organizations, of course, the harder it is to just kind of figure out on a day-to-day basis how you’re going to change this massive system. It just becomes more and more important that you have a team and that you have a grassroots kind of movement going, in addition to maybe the formal things that you’re able to do yourself or with your immediate team.

And, you know, the complexities of organizations in terms of their geographic dispersal across the country, the kinds of external pressures on the organization, the contexts within which they’re working, the changes that occur externally and internally while you’re undertaking the work—all of those are really big factors.

Of course, myself as an instrument—my ability to stay grounded, to stay in development, to stay open, and to bring as much strength of character as I can to the work—I think of it as bringing my whole person to work, which Mary Crossan taught me and was one of the reasons I first made the decision to pursue the work on organizational culture and to bring character into that because it resonated so strongly with me.

In terms of opportunities and what has nourished me in these experiences, of course, the opportunity to know that I’m making a difference within these organizations, that that affects individuals and their well-being as well as the performance of the organizations, which then affects Canadian society.

I believe that our organizations should not only avoid having negative impacts on society, but they in fact should contribute to solving the most wicked issues that we face.

It goes without saying to me after many years working in this field that how the organization operates on the inside will affect and determine their performance on the outside.

And so that has been a strong motivator for me. It’s been rewarding to see how we really can change things.

The smaller organizations— in one case, it felt like I was working in a high school. There’s something really familiar and kind of fun about that.

But I’ve enjoyed the challenges of figuring out how to reach thousands of people, how to leverage all of the leaders who may not be in formal positions but have the disposition to lead.

There are so many within organizations who are leaders outside of work—whether in volunteer experience, as parents coaching their kids’ teams, in side hustles where they’re leaders, or just people who haven’t had the opportunity but are like water in a desert when you say, “Come with me. Let’s make a difference here.”

That’s been really rewarding—to work with people who want to make a difference and see how it affects them and the organization.

Corey Crossan [00.14.30]
That’s so interesting. And actually, this idea of trying to find these champions or leaders in various parts of the organizations that might not have a formal role—that sounds like a really powerful strategy. I’m curious, are there more specific strategies in finding those people, or is it just kind of shouting from the rooftops and seeing who comes? Or are there other ways to find those people?

Jennifer Bitz [00.14.52]
I would say a combination. I’ve used the formal approach of putting the call out and going through the hierarchy to recruit people. When I’ve used that method, I make sure that anyone showing interest actually talks to me or someone on the team or writes something that shows who they are and why they’re interested, rather than being volunteered without their input. I look for whether they bring their whole person to the work.

One of my favorite stories was when someone applied to be part of a grassroots network with an application that was honestly hilarious and had my whole team laughing. It was a little cheeky and provocative, but I thought, this is the kind of person we want to work with, someone who can influence others. He turned out to be young and energetic and became a fantastic member of our Culture Ambassador network.

Beyond the formal routes, word of mouth is extremely powerful. Often, it’s about finding one connected person and encouraging them to recruit others. I’m a big fan of a YouTube video called “The First Follower.” It shows a big crowd at a festival, something like Woodstock. One lone nut gets up and starts dancing while everyone else sits listening to music. At first, he looks like a nut. After a while, someone else joins him—the first follower. The lone nut responds by copying the first follower’s moves. Very quickly, others start joining in, and within minutes the whole crowd is dancing.

That philosophy of responding to the first follower and building momentum has been very useful in building grassroots networks.

Corey Crossan [00.17.46]
That’s really cool. I love that. I think about whether you’re the lone nut or the first or the second follower. Going back to your point about the character that it requires of those people, I’m curious to learn more about the character you felt like you’ve really had to activate as you navigate these spaces. And I can imagine you’re even coming from what I do and I’m trying to really push character in education and across different organizations, it takes a tremendous amount of transcendence.

I thought I already had a lot of transcendence, but I realized I need even more to be able to get people to understand what it is, like the vision and aspirations that we have—a lot of temperance, a lot of patience to know that things aren’t going to happen right away. And I think people say that a lot, but you really need so much more of it than I think that we’re prepared to deal with.

Also the humility, because a lot of times when people are questioning like, “Why are you doing this? I don’t necessarily see what you see.” And being able to entertain those types of questions with a lot of humanity and compassion, and trying to see what others see when they don’t see what you see right away. So those are just some of the examples of the things that I’ve experienced. But I’m curious to learn more about your experiences and the character dimensions you really had to draw on to help you navigate this space.

Jennifer Bitz [00.19.06]
Mhm. First of all, all of those things as you described for yourself—absolutely. I’ll just take a quick look at the wheel and share with you what comes up for me in addition to what you’ve talked about.

One that comes up very quickly is resilience—that tenacity and resilience. Going back to that idea of how many people have told me it’s impossible, and needing to connect with my optimism and creativity in order to see something else, something bigger that I believe is possible.

One that I’ve really had to develop is intuition, which is an element of judgment. Because with culture change, we’re talking about, of course, a human system—a system of human beings who are messy. As I was saying, they’re not machines. They don’t behave in necessarily predictable ways.

So if we only bring part of ourselves—meaning the more analytical, critical thinker, sort of pragmatic approach—then we can miss out on so much. And when I started tapping into that intuition more and trusting it—just those little flutters or that gut instinct, maybe an uneasy feeling, maybe an excited feeling, maybe even sometimes a sense that there’s something bigger going on here, like, “I don’t know”—and then not dismissing it, not ignoring it, saying, “Wait a second, all this is the—I need to be really tuning into this and listening to it.”

I’ve had a fantastic team, my culture team, that I’ve worked with for several years. We’ve been lucky enough to be able to work together in more than one organization, in various competitions. And we’ve really learned to hone that intuition as a team so that we share with each other what we’re picking up on in the system and not ignore it when someone else says, “Oh, I got an inkling of that as well.” We know that there’s something going on there.

And that’s of course connecting with people, with their humanity, with their moods and the emotions that are running through the system. There’s a lot of that that we can miss out on if we just operate from our head.

So that idea of connecting our judgment to being informed by so much more of the entire wheel has really helped me be effective in the work—or at least have good days when we make progress.

And then the last one I would say is vulnerability. I thought I had that one nailed years ago but I just keep understanding it more deeply. Honestly, I still struggle with it. I absolutely see it as a strength. I know exactly why it’s on the wheel.

I know that it is an essential ingredient of humility. I see its power in organizations to build connection, to improve decision-making, when that real connection is there. More than connection, trust—it’s the trust that then allows for the best decisions to be made.

So I’ve seen all of that in action, but it’s still hard. It’s still hard. There’s something—I think it goes back to my earlier story about the lone nut. There’s something scary about being the lone nut, about being the one at the senior executive table talking about feelings, for example.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s tough. Still working on it.

Corey Crossan [00.24.01]
Well, I feel like you bring that one out because I feel like you really put yourself in positions to really shine a light on vulnerability. Like you said, you want to lead the charge. Like, you want to be the lone nut. All of these things. So you’re definitely giving yourself the opportunity to strengthen that muscle.

And so going back to the culture transformation piece, we hear often that having buy-in from the top is an essential piece to culture transformation. Would you agree with that? And if, and maybe going from there as well, if people are trying to start a culture transformation in their organizations and they don’t have buy-in, what are some other ways that you might be able to start that culture transformation?

Jennifer Bitz [00.24.43]
Yeah, I would say first of all that buy-in is incredibly helpful to have at the top of the organization. Our top leaders set the tone. They set the example. They model the behaviors that we need. Well, hopefully the ones that we need. And they create ripples.

We know that the higher you are in the organization, the more of an impact you will have on the patterns of behavior, on the written and the unwritten rules of the organization. Leaders operate as though they’re in a fishbowl. Everyone watches them very attentively, listens to them, and receives signals as to what is, what’s expected, what’s appropriate, what’s not allowed, what you can get away with, what you can’t.

So that’s just the day to day how a leader shows up. But then there’s also, if you’re wanting to change the culture, then having their buy-in to make the investments that are necessary, to dedicate the time, effort, money into that, is extremely helpful.

Their belief that the culture does determine the performance of the organization is, yeah, I would say critical. Otherwise it becomes the nice-to-do-when-I-have-time-for-it. Which for senior executives, of course, when is their time? When’s that rainy day when I’ll get to the things that are on my non-priority list?

So it needs to be up there. They need to see it as a fundamental to their success in the organization.

So what do you do if you don’t have it? That’s a good question. And what I have lived through is having it and then losing it, and then having it again. It’s hard. I’m not going to sugarcoat that one.

I already talked about the power of the grassroots network. So I would point to that as being important. And that’s why in the work that I’ve done, I’ve worked at both of those levels. So at the leadership level as well as at the grassroots level.

There’s also, if working at the leadership level, of course, the potential to reach a critical mass of people in management roles who can influence those coming in, let’s say, when there’s a leadership change.

And the wonderful thing about character is that I think, as you know well, most people when they come across it discover that it’s a no-brainer. They discover it’s the missing piece.

They want to put that piece in the puzzle. Of course.

So that has certainly been an important aspect of why I have used character as part of the culture change work that I’ve done consistently.

Corey Crossan [00.28.41]
That’s such an important piece. And so when you’ve brought character into the culture transformation piece there, there are, of course, different ways to do it. We just had the culture article published with Marianne Bell where we talk about three steps: the awareness of what character is; then the development of character, thinking about that more from the bottom up, or maybe you’re doing development at the leadership level so it then kind of goes top down; and then also thinking about as you’re developing your character, you start to see the systems in the organization that might not be working for you anymore, so you’re able to adapt those systems to better support the development of character and the culture you’re trying to aspire towards.

What are some of the steps you’ve taken? Do any of those sound like steps you’ve taken, or are there different or more nuanced steps you’ve taken to drive culture change?

Jennifer Bitz [00.29.36]
Definitely. Those all sound like excellent steps to take. I would say they haven’t necessarily been sequential. One of the ways I’ve had some success is by being really adaptive. Ensuring the organization I’m in is treated as its own living, breathing system that has unique characteristics, mindsets, patterns of behavior, context, history, and leaders. So where you jump in isn’t going to be the same in every organization.

A wonderful thing with character is that there isn’t a wrong way to jump in. The only tiny exception is that you don’t want to start imposing or using character as a way to hire or promote when there’s no awareness in the organization of what that is. That’s just not fair to the people within the organization.

Beyond that, there are so many ways to approach it. One aspect I’ve used in all four organizations is a diagnostic of the culture. I’ve been able to incorporate character more and more into that process as you and your team have been developing and deepening the research. I still have more to learn and do, but that’s an important step in culture change—really understanding your starting point.

The language of character is incredibly powerful to use for that. I’ve found it can be tempting to remove character from the situation. Organizations typically craft some kind of vision statement for their culture, something aspirational, and then identify capabilities or values they want to embody.

But sometimes those goals are incredibly hard to achieve because there isn’t acknowledgment of where they are now and what they need to do to get there. Who do they have? How are they transacting day to day? What are the unwritten rules governing how they work? What serves them? What doesn’t? What do they need to let go of? What do they need to reinforce? What habits do they need to develop to generate the culture they aspire to?

Now enter character. You have this whole language around that. You can talk about the existing culture in a way that, for example, if judgment is at the center, what does judgment look like now at the organizational level? Do you have analysis paralysis? Are you spinning around the same issues? If you look at the agendas of committee meetings over the last several months or years, do you see the same issues, problems, and risks? Or are you making rash decisions with unintended consequences from decisions that haven’t been well thought out or informed by a full spectrum of perspectives and voices at the table?

Everything in between is possible, but applying a character assessment to the culture diagnostic brings richness to work from. If culture reflects the character of individuals within the system, you can then look at what character development is needed and what that looks like for individuals.

Corey Crossan [00.34.38]
Yeah. I really like this idea of not just starting with the vision statement but actually starting where we are with that diagnostic. It’s funny—I think a lot of organizations probably miss that step when they’re doing culture transformation. Yet, there are a lot of people doing diagnostics, I think. But what happens next? I think organizations love a good diagnostic. The idea that you’ve been able to bring character into it as the action piece—this is what we can actually work on next to close the gap between where we are and the aspirational culture—I think that’s been the missing piece for so many organizations. It’s such an exciting part when organizations start to see, “Oh, we can actually change behavior and this is how we do it.”

Jennifer Bitz [00.35.25]
Yeah, exactly. And like when you think of it in terms of the virtue-vice model, that’s where I got really excited. We’re used to thinking of competencies as “the more the better.” The more strategic you are, the more results-oriented you are, the more ethical you are.

But when you layer on the character model, you see that it can’t be too much of a good thing when it comes to character. For example, the ethical dimension, which is part of integrity—integrity on overdrive in excess can actually be quite unhealthy in an organization if that’s the system level. It can look like rigidity and a lack of ability to consider consequences and close off possibilities.

So I’ve found that recognizing and describing what’s going on in the culture in terms of needing to find that virtuous state for the character dimensions is really helpful.

And an important element is that it’s not that we want less integrity. That’s not the strategy. Instead, it’s what other dimensions of character do we need to activate to underpin our strength so that it manifests in a productive, healthy way—like social responsibility, compassion, or accountability.

Corey Crossan [00.37.34]
Yeah. And I think that’s been the downfall of so many large organizations where they really have overrated—without knowing it—some dimensions like drive, the really classic one courage that they don’t have, the humility, the humanity, the justice. You look at cases like Enron, for example, where some people end up in jail because they didn’t even realize that what they thought they were doing was a good thing ended up being a bad thing. The whole character wheel really helps us keep everything in balance. And, as you’ve been saying, the culture really does support the performance piece.

I know you’ve also done a lot of work in executive leadership development, but before we go there, is there anything on the culture piece that we haven’t covered that you’d like to share?

Jennifer Bitz [00.38.18]
Well, those two are so closely connected that you won’t be cutting me off from talking about culture anymore. Maybe I would just say that I’ve found that applying character to organizational practices in a deliberate way has been extremely helpful.

For example, in equity, diversity, and inclusion approaches; planning programs; change management; awards and recognition; hiring and promotion; informal conflict management—which I’ve found is a really interesting place to incorporate character—and in formal ways like codes of conduct and stated values and ethics.

Looking to character in these ways has been very helpful.

Also, using character to track progress—thinking of each person having their own character profile and then zooming out to see what that looks like at the system level, assessing the character there and seeing how it changes over time—is really helpful. That’s an area I’m exploring more and more.

Corey Crossan [00.39.42]
And when you talk about embedding character into all these different practices, how do you do that? Do you kind of just tap the heads of the people leading hiring or recruitment or whatever and see if you can make the case for character and if they’re willing to embed it? How does that work?

Jennifer Bitz [00.39.57]
Good question. I would say that’s where the culture diagnostic is really helpful. If done well, it helps as a guide for what’s needed.

One thing I didn’t mention is that the process I’ve used is to look for root cause. Often the language will be in character language, but understanding the causes of cultural issues in the organization is important to know and articulate. Design thinking really helps get to that root cause level.

From there, it often doesn’t require a massive action plan. There are often really meaningful actions that can be taken that will have sustainable impact when working at that root cause level.

Recognizing it’s about the human beings operating within the system, not just policies. Policies can flow from there, but starting at that human level is so important.

If the diagnostic is an honest reflection of where the organization is, and with critical top leadership support to do something about it, that’s where I start to connect with enabling functions in the organization and develop partnerships.

Of course, trying to do that very early on so nobody feels left out—that they’ve had a say in the whole process and have been part of the diagnostic process. Then they can help come up with solutions alongside us, so it’s a team effort.

Often, it doesn’t need to be big, elaborate solutions. Something very simple can be effective.

For example, with awards and recognition, in every organization I’ve worked with, the formal awards from the top leader often reward behaviors that aren’t really desired, that don’t reflect how we want to show up.

We tend to overweight drive and encourage some form of accountability, but that can look like lone rangers, people burning out to be high achievers, or even people being jerks in the process of doing something incredible. Is that really what we want to reward?

Those top awards send important signals to the organization about what’s valued and set the example.

So incorporating character into the criteria for awards isn’t complicated. Once you do, you reward people not necessarily with full strength of character, but with the idea of being in development, drawing on character dimensions often underrated in organizations like humanity, humility, collaboration, and temperance. Those really need to be emphasized in what we reward.

Corey Crossan [00.44.01]
Well, I’m really glad I asked that because it’s a really nice, tangible example. Even just going back to the idea that if you use a diagnostic, it could point out some pain points in the organization. That just makes the case for why you would want to bring character into awards and recognition, for example. So that makes a lot of sense.

So executive leadership development—you’ve been doing some work there. What have you been doing, and how have you brought character into that?

Jennifer Bitz [00.44.31]
I’ll quickly mention a couple of things. One is introducing character to the development of managers throughout the organization, reaching a broad group of managers at different levels. I see that as an important step.

But an important complement to that is development at the very top level of the organization. I was fortunate to work with the top leadership team over the course of close to four years. We would come together about monthly, and I would facilitate conversations with the senior executive team aimed at setting the example and modeling the desired culture through developing their character.

It was an adaptive process. From one month to the next, I assessed where we were in the organization in terms of culture and what might be needed. I also had direct conversations with the top leader about what they were noticing and what they wanted.

We would then go in and have some teaching, lots of dialogue, sometimes tough conversations, and a lot of discomfort. It was hard stuff, but rewarding. One of the most interesting, challenging, and exciting things I’ve done in my career.

Some leaders told me afterward that they were skeptical at first—wondering who I was, what I was talking about, and why they had to spend time on this. But they all came around.

Even simply spending time reflecting on the team and how they showed up for each other paid dividends. When they went to committee meetings or their busy days, making decisions or handling crises together, they saw the positive impact.

It took a time commitment from all those leaders, signaled by the top leader. Getting the ball rolling was the initial challenge. Once it was rolling, it wasn’t hard to keep it going.

We did assessments along the way to track progress, which helped motivate them by showing they were making progress and should keep going.

Corey Crossan [00.47.55]
Yeah, that time commitment is always a challenge, no matter who’s doing development programs. Especially the more senior you get in organizations, those leaders feel like they have no time. That’s a nice transition into the Virtuosity app that we’ve created. It really tries to embed development more seamlessly into the time we already have.

I’d like to ask you two questions on the Virtuosity front—first about your personal development, then the opportunity you see for it in organizations.

You’ve been using Virtuosity, I think, for just the last few months. How have you found it? What impact has it had in terms of how you see character development showing up in practice and the different impact it’s had?

I think it’s an especially interesting question for you because you’ve been in the character space for 11 years. So is it really making a difference? What difference is it making? What impact is it having?

Jennifer Bitz [00.48.54]
It’s having a huge difference—more than I expected, honestly. I just love the habit formation part of it—the morning check-in and the evening check-in.

At first, these things can feel like a bit of a pain to incorporate into your routine, but once you get going, it becomes comforting, an anchor in a good way. Like, this is going to anchor my day. I don’t want to start my day without setting this intention and reflecting for one or two minutes—it’s all it takes. I also don’t want to end my day without having reflected.

One part I really love is the reflection on my performance, interactions, and mood today. I’ve found it so useful as a way of reflecting on how I’m working on these different elements of my character and how that actually affects those aspects of my life.

Another thing I’ve learned from it is what I don’t know. There’s a lot more than I expected. For example, I finally understand what magnanimous really means. I spent three weeks on it, just on being magnanimous—being generous of spirit, even with rivals and competitors. That’s finally really clicking for me, and I’m having fun with it. It’s humbling but fun to play with.

There have been a few others I realized I didn’t understand before. The dimensions aren’t just synonyms of each other; there’s something unique and important about each of them. I’ve enjoyed digging into each one.

Corey Crossan [00.51.08]
That’s so amazing. Even as someone writing a lot of the content in there, I find when you just sit with something for three or four weeks, it brings whole new meaning because of the things you’re doing, your context, your relationships, and experiences. It takes on a very specific meaning. The words come alive so much more.

This idea of focusing on one element and the micro-moments of everything you do—just one element—of course, you think about the interconnectedness of the others, but that deep dive is fun. I’ve heard other participants say they want to get through all 11 elements in the Virtuosity program quickly. There’s so much more to explore, but that’s the great thing because character development is a lifetime process. You’ve got all the time in the world to explore all those elements.

When you think about your experience in culture transformation or just being in organizations, do you see any opportunity to leverage Virtuosity to make a difference, especially in bigger organizations?

Jennifer Bitz [00.52.15]
Yes, I certainly do. It’s a great tool that immediately makes me think about the impact it could have. For example, if all members of Parliament used it or other leaders internationally.

Regarding organizations, I see a real return on investment. As members develop their character, that contributes to increased productivity for the organization. That’s an obvious metric.

Also, reducing risk is key. There’s time and cost associated with grievances, complaints, ethical breaches, misconduct, and legal cases. Those things are time-consuming, resource-consuming, and dispiriting for the people working on them and the organizations.

So the potential for an app to contribute to reducing those risks and costs is enormous. It’s pretty neat.

Corey Crossan [00.53.51]
Okay, so I’m looking at the time, and for listeners who don’t see our time, we’ve gone way over. We knew it was going to happen because there’s so much to talk about in culture. But trying to wrap things up here—the last question I typically ask our guests is about the Character Quotient assessment.

For those who don’t know, the Character Quotient assessment looks at your ability to make a difference in the world through character. There are ten questions: the first four about your awareness of character, the next four about your development of character, and the last two about your application of character into organizations.

Would you be willing to share what you scored on the assessment or different areas you’re proud of or perhaps a particular question you want to work on?

Jennifer Bitz [00.54.46]
My quotient this time was 83, so pretty good. Because I am using character in lots of facets of my life and participating in the Virtuosity program and using the app, I was able to score pretty highly.

I use a science-based approach. I’d say what I’m most proud of is the daily practice that I have now. I had been playing with it for many years—for example, when I brush my teeth or make coffee, I’d reflect on character. But it’s a lot more consistent and deliberate now. I’m proud of that.

I’d say my challenge areas are things like when I think about, ironically, within the system or my context, what happens to my character. Being conscious of how the culture I’m in influences me, how pressure affects me.

I find that time crunches can be stressful for me. I tend to withdraw sometimes from people when I’m feeling stressed. So that’s an area of growth for me, but I’m going to keep working on it.

Corey Crossan [00.56.12]
I think that’s one of the toughest ones for a lot of people. A few other guests on the podcast have talked about that one in particular. I think it’s the one I’ve heard as the lowest area by far. It shows the incredible strength of character we need to move through challenging contexts. It has to be very strong. So it’s a lifelong journey. We’ll keep chipping away at that one.

Jennifer Bitz [00.56.35]
Right.

Corey Crossan [00.56.36]
Okay. Thank you so much, Jenn, for coming on. I honestly feel like I could pick your brain forever about culture transformation because it does feel elusive. It feels like an impossible task. But honestly, the ways you’ve walked us through, like different steps and strategies, start to break it down and make it feel more manageable.

I hope a lot of listeners have started to see that it’s not impossible, that there are steps people can take, and the central role that character can have—not only embedding it into change but also who we need to be in terms of character to make that change happen. You illustrated that so well. Thank you so much for sharing all your insights and coming onto the podcast today.

Jennifer Bitz [00.57.23]
You’re welcome, Corey. It’s been a pleasure.

Corey Crossan [00.57.26]
You’ve just finished another episode of the Virtuosity Podcast. If you have questions or want to connect, you can reach me at corey@virtuositycharacter.ca. I’m also on LinkedIn—let’s connect there.

As always, thank you so much for listening. Bye for now.

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Jennifer Bitz

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