Chiefs Don't Sugarcoat—That Gives You Diabetes

From a small town in Mississippi to the pinnacle of Navy leadership, Master Chief Lisa Tisdale's remarkable 30-year journey embodies the true spirit of naval service. In this captivating conversation with Gary Wise, Lisa pulls back the curtain on her evolution from Ship's Serviceman to Command Master Chief.

Lisa's story begins with joining the Navy to help support her siblings, following her brother's footsteps. Her candid recounting of boot camp struggles ("I want to go back to my mama. These people are yelling at me for no reason") resonates with anyone who's experienced military training. As she progressed through her career, she navigated the challenges of being a single parent while serving on submarines and aircraft carriers.

The conversation takes a compelling turn as Lisa describes her lateral move to the Master-at-Arms rate in 1998 – a decision that would profoundly shape her career trajectory. Her experiences as Chief of Police at various installations and her leadership during the post-9/11 security transformation offer fascinating insights into a critical period of Navy history.

Perhaps most powerful are Lisa's reflections on making Chief aboard the USS Nimitz immediately following 9/11, when the normally rigorous initiation process had to adapt to national crisis. "We collectively made the decision to continue," she explains, highlighting how even in unprecedented circumstances, Navy tradition found a way forward.

Lisa doesn't shy away from addressing the political realities of senior leadership positions. Her candid assessment of missed opportunities and the personal costs of career advancement creates a nuanced picture of naval leadership rarely discussed openly. Her perspective is balanced by heartwarming stories of mentorship and support from leaders who recognized her potential.

The conversation culminates with Lisa's experiences during COVID-19 at Naval Base Guam, offering a master class in crisis leadership during unprecedented challenges. Her insights on transition to civilian life provide valuable guidance for anyone approaching this significant life change.

Whether you're a Navy veteran, current servicemember, or simply interested in authentic leadership stories, this episode offers rare insights into the human dimension of military service through the eyes of someone who truly lived it.

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Chapters

• 0:27 Episode Introduction: Behind the Anchor
• 4:21 From Mississippi to the Navy
• 17:03 Early Naval Career and First Duty Stations
• 33:26 Becoming a Master-at-Arms
• 43:07 Making Chief and Post-9/11 Navy
• 1:01:59 Command Master Chief Journey
• 1:20:44 Career Politics and Personal Challenges
• 1:38:25 The COVID Experience in Guam
• 1:46:05 Life After the Navy

Transcript

Gary Wise: 0:00

And I know I was born for this. I know I was born for this. Don't care for the critics. My words are like physics a force that they can't stop. They just don't get it. I think they forget I'm not done till I'm on top. I know I was born for this. I know I was born for this. I believe, I believe we can write a story.

Gary Wise: 0:28

Hello everybody, once again it's me, your friendly neighborhood CMC, aka Gary Wise of Wise Leadership Solutions, and tonight is one of those special episodes that I do. It's the Behind the Anchor edition. This is where I get the chance to catch up with old shipmates, teammates that I worked with throughout my military time. And tonight, tonight, let me tell y'all, we got a legend tonight in the house. This legend tonight we first served together over in Japan, but we didn't really work together. We first worked together over on the beautiful island of Guam and then she went on to do great things and I believe she went to Southwest Region afterwards before she called it a day. For those of you that know this is going to be, you know, the one that lives long and prospers, none other than Lisa Tisdale. Lisa, how are you doing? I'm good. How are you, brother? I'm good, I'm so thankful to get you tonight, man, dr Tisdale.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:31

Yeah.

Gary Wise: 1:34

Bruh, congratulations.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:36

Thank you so much. Thank you, I think I got used to having a title in front of my name, so when I retired I had to make sure I got another title in front of my name.

Gary Wise: 1:44

So when I retired I had to make sure I got another title. That's so big though, right. When I first saw that come across on social media, when you first got it, I was just thinking to myself like dang, because I looked at the schooling required a few times and I was like, do I really want to? Nah, but you did it, yeah.

Lisa Tisdale: 2:04

It took a little bit and you know, and you know a lot of work involved and things like that, but it was very. I really enjoyed it.

Gary Wise: 2:11

I really did yeah, and for you I mean because I want to go into your career and kind of where you're at, where you got to where you're at now. But just so everyone understands, you're retired now and you're living up. Are you in pack northwest?

Lisa Tisdale: 2:24

no, I'm in um texas right outside of dallas.

Gary Wise: 2:28

Yeah okay, so I'm in florida, right. So we all went to the free states. You know, I'm watching callie burn right now and I'm just like that's why I don't live there.

Gary Wise: 2:43

Exactly, bro, it's better and friendly down here and good to go, so yeah you're in education now, right, yeah, yeah um, I'm just doing things online, but, um, thinking about getting back into the corporate world is what I want to actually do, so yeah, okay, all right, well, we'll get into all that, but just, lisa, I want to, I want think let's go way back in the time machine. Refresh my memory. Where were you from originally, before you joined the service?

Lisa Tisdale: 3:13

I was from Grenada, Mississippi.

Gary Wise: 3:17

I thought so. I didn't want to say the wrong state and have you be like oh hell. No, gary, I'm from Mississippi. Yeah, grenada, now is that like a? I'm from Mississippi. Yeah, grenada, now is that like a small town? Is that near a bigger town?

Lisa Tisdale: 3:34

It is a small town and it's actually in between Memphis and Jackson Mississippi, so on that main interstate 55, it's right about an hour and a half between each one.

Gary Wise: 3:40

So, yeah, okay. And so, growing up in Mississippi, growing in grenada is that how you say it? Grenada, yes, grenada. Growing up in grenada, mississippi did you ever think that you would one day like join the military and leave mississippi?

Lisa Tisdale: 3:57

I did it before my brother joined the navy. He was two years ahead of me and he joined the navy, and he was able to because we grew up poor.

Lisa Tisdale: 4:06

And once he joined the Navy, he was able to, you know, help me out with all the things that I needed in school and, you know, give me a little extra pocket change for different things in high school. And so I was like I want to be able to do that too, because I got four siblings under me. So I was like I want to join the Navy too. Navy too, you know. He was telling me about the places that he went and stuff like that. So I was.

Gary Wise: 4:31

As a matter of fact, we had the same recruiter, the guy was there for three years so he was able to put my brother in and he put me in. So oh, wow, so go. So going through high school would you have said that like military was a very common, like commonly thought about option for life after if your brother hadn't joined? Do you think that, like were the other kids in your area talking about like army, navy, air force, or they talking more about like work and college and stuff?

Lisa Tisdale: 4:54

yeah, they were not talking about, um, the military at all. It was a lot of, uh, my best, two of my best friends. All they was talking about was college and I just couldn't afford to go to college. My folks couldn't afford to send me to college.

Lisa Tisdale: 5:07

So but yeah, the athletes and all of them they were talking about going to college and stuff like that, and it was a few of them that knew they were not going to leave that little hometown. So they're still there today, you know, working at the factories and stuff like that.

Gary Wise: 5:20

But yeah, definitely.

Lisa Tisdale: 5:25

If he hadn't joined the Navy. I wouldn't have probably joined the Navy, because it just wasn't something that was talked about all the time.

Gary Wise: 5:29

No, you know, I'm a high school teacher now and I'm with these kids and I hear their conversations and it's like they talking about certain things in like ninth, 10th, 11th grade. Then in the senior year it gets really real and they're like what the heck am I going to do? And then they start having those financial conversations or the academic conversations. But now they want to join the military, but them jokers can't even pass a stinking ASVAB. Exactly, I don't get it. It's heartbreaking, it's so heartbreaking. And it's not because they're not intelligent, it's just because they haven't applied themselves before you. Exactly, they haven't right. And so I just I'm just very thankful that I'm not going to say nothing against this generation versus other generations, but I just feel like we might've came through education a little differently back when we were older and or younger and and maybe had a little bit more retention. I guess we could say right, I think so too. I think so.

Gary Wise: 6:26

So when you joined the military, your brother joins and he joins the Navy. So that was your connection to the Navy, which a lot of us do. That, right, We've got a connection. For me, it was my dad and my grandfather, so I drifted to the Navy? Did you have any idea what you wanted to do for a job when you went to the recruiter?

Lisa Tisdale: 6:45

I. Did you have any idea what you wanted to do for a job when you went to the recruiter? I did not. My recruiter he was. He was a second class at the time and of course you know me joining that was like oh wow, he's got a lot of rank, you know. But he was talking about different jobs and I actually qualified off of my ASVAB to be an electrician's mate.

Lisa Tisdale: 7:03

But I left early for boot camp. They had me going in October and I graduated in June and I was like I got to get up out of this little hometown of mine.

Gary Wise: 7:12

So when, I left early.

Lisa Tisdale: 7:14

All they had was a bosunate and ship servicemen. So my brother told me, he said he said Lisa. He said you will not make it as a boat to Spain. He said, so go the supply route.

Gary Wise: 7:28

So that's what I did.

Lisa Tisdale: 7:29

That's how I ended up as an SH at first when I joined the Navy.

Gary Wise: 7:33

I can see that. I can see you as an SH. I can see you holding down the ship store, the barbershop. That makes a lot of sense for me, actually. Okay, I thought you was going to tell me you went undesignated because you wanted to rush out the road. I've heard that story before. Yes, well, I think the other thing is, once you made your choice, like you knew you was going to do something, then the waiting game gets hard right, because it's like now you just want to go Right. So I can relate to that for sure and to be honest with you, I mean, sh might have been better than going to an electrician.

Lisa Tisdale: 8:09

Yeah, now that I've been in and saw the jobs, I definitely chose the right one.

Gary Wise: 8:16

But we're going to get back to that though, because there is some challenges about being an SH right For sure. I mean I've had a lot of good friends of mine that went to SH, but unfortunately there wasn't an opportunity in the rate right For sure. I mean, I've had a lot of good friends of mine that went to SH, but unfortunately there wasn't an opportunity in the rate right, and so they had to get creative. So where was your first? So you went to boot camp. Where'd you go to boot camp at?

Lisa Tisdale: 8:34

In Orlando.

Gary Wise: 8:35

So you Orlando. Okay, what was that? What year was that? What year was that? 1989. Woo, 1989. Man, I was in the seventh grade.

Lisa Tisdale: 8:47

Never mind, we're not going to do all that I tell people. It is what it is, you know.

Gary Wise: 8:56

Hey, you know what, though? I was talking to a guy the other day and I was like y'all 47 years old. He was like you look good for your age. I was like, well, thank you, what are you going to do with that right? I appreciate that.

Lisa Tisdale: 9:07

You can't do nothing but say well, thank you.

Gary Wise: 9:10

I appreciate that, man. So you went to the United States Navy. You went to boot camp in Orlando. How was going to boot camp after being in Mississippi, Going from high school graduation? Did you go to boot camp quickly after graduation?

Lisa Tisdale: 9:25

I did. I graduated in June, June 2nd or something like that, and I was in boot camp on July 26th.

Gary Wise: 9:33

It was hot.

Lisa Tisdale: 9:34

It was, yes, scorching hot there, because we wore those little black, whatever we called them. I used to have this mark right here. All of this was dark. But, the viewpoint was lighter.

Gary Wise: 9:51

Had you a little tan line going After getting cooked? Look, orlando, ain't nothing to play with man. People go out there to the parks and have heat stress, emergencies, casualties.

Lisa Tisdale: 10:02

And we were out there running in push-ups and all of that stuff.

Gary Wise: 10:05

I can only imagine. And we were out there running in pushups and all of that stuff. I can only imagine. And when you went to Orlando, what was the biggest takeaway for you in basic training? Was there anything significant about that period of time that you was just like? I'm going to remember that for my whole career.

Lisa Tisdale: 10:20

Just trying to acclimate to the Navy life and get to where you, because I was 17 and I was just. I want to go back home to my mama. These people are yelling at me for no reason.

Lisa Tisdale: 10:32

I ain't done nothing wrong, you know, and it was just like it was rule after rule after rule after rule, do this and do that and do that. And it's just like, oh my God, I didn't even have to wash a dish when I was growing up and now I got to do all of this stuff. You know, just getting used to that, it didn't take me but a couple of weeks to be like, oh, I got this. This is easy day, you know. But that initial impact it was like, oh my goodness, but that was it. And after that it was like smooth sailing for me.

Gary Wise: 11:01

So that sounds like they did a good job. Then you know, because that's what they're supposed to do, right? They're supposed to get you and completely get you to be confused with what's going on and then hopefully get you the structure and get you out the door. And where was SHA school?

Lisa Tisdale: 11:18

In Meridian Mississippi.

Gary Wise: 11:20

How far away was that from home?

Lisa Tisdale: 11:22

About two and a half hours from where I grew up. It was about 35 minutes from where my grandmother lived, so I was in heaven, oh okay, so you went to SHA school, but you was almost like being back home. It was, except I was getting a paycheck.

Gary Wise: 11:42

Ah no, you was flossing on people, I was flossing a little bit.

Lisa Tisdale: 11:45

yes, I'm buying a paycheck. Ah no, you was flossing on people. I was flossing a little bit. Yes, I'm buying ice cream. I'm in the Navy.

Gary Wise: 11:50

How y'all doing what y'all up to man, 1989 in the Navy, back home, going to SHA. But how long was SHA school? It was just four weeks, okay, so not too long, not too long. And when you was in SHA school, how long was SHA school? It was just four weeks, okay, so not too long, not too long. And when you was in SHA school, how long was it? Were you in school? Until you got your orders to go to your first duty station.

Lisa Tisdale: 12:13

I was. It took me when I got there, so it took about a week before I classed up and then, once I graduated, it was about a week and a half before I got my orders. Well, we had the orders, we had the orders, we picked the orders, but for them to cut it, it was about a week and a half before I ended up in Norfolk.

Gary Wise: 12:31

Virginia, you went to Norfolk first, too, on a ship.

Lisa Tisdale: 12:37

On a ship Subtender, uss Hundley.

Gary Wise: 12:40

A subtender. What was life like? The only tenders I've seen are the ones we had in guam, right, uh, what was the submarine tender like in norfolk? Did y'all get underway?

Lisa Tisdale: 12:51

we did get underway and we went just, of course, circling or out around the water. Um, we went to canada a couple of times and that was about it, because it was a very old ship and it had a lot of problems. So I remember one time we was going I think, um, we're gonna go down to charleston or something. We couldn't even get out the bay. It was like black smoke came out of everywhere and they had to turn yeah, we're putting the blow up on this old boat for no reason.

Gary Wise: 13:23

Yeah, we're putting a blow up on this old boat for no reason we got to blow up.

Lisa Tisdale: 13:27

We got tucked back in by the pier and they was like we didn't think y'all would get as far as you did. So you know, welcome back.

Gary Wise: 13:34

Yeah, those old steamships are no joke. And so you were on that ship, did you do? What did you do?

Lisa Tisdale: 13:41

two years, three years on that ship. I did two years on that ship. I left that ship um because I got pregnant with my daughter, so I had her and I went back to um a ship that was right across the pier from that, the uss ly spear. I was on that one which one's that one, the ly, spear what kind of subtender subtender another subtender.

Gary Wise: 14:03

yeah, I did not know there was that many subtenders in the Navy back then and remember over in Guam we had the MREs land over there.

Lisa Tisdale: 14:11

When I was on the Hunley, the MREs land was stationed right behind me. It was parked right behind the Hunley so, yeah, I was very familiar with the land.

Gary Wise: 14:20

What a different Navy that would be to have that repair capability in our ship, right, I think we probably missed that. Oh, having that capability right, I mean I don't think we missed the steam platforms, right, and like all the all of the danger that comes with that, but if we could have built some gas turbine tenders, that might have been a smart plan right, I agree with that.

Lisa Tisdale: 14:40

I agree because we definitely provided a valuable service to those submarines out there, so yeah, no, I think that that's something the Navy might want to look at it.

Gary Wise: 14:50

I mean, right now they're looking at all these shipyard problems. They got Well. I mean the good thing about those sub-tenders or the tender you have seamanship responsibilities. But oh, by the way, they give you ship repair and they give you different duty station looks for sailors. They don't always want to be on a DDG or a carrier. There's some different kinds of looks, right.

Lisa Tisdale: 15:10

Exactly.

Gary Wise: 15:11

I totally agree. I mean that's you know what's crazy. That's like I mean that's something that I've never experienced all my career. That's that's when did you see all those those boats start getting decommissioned? Was that early nineties? It was early nineties, yeah, it was. So you, you get to Norfolk and you have your, you have your daughter and you go, you go from the tender to the second tender. Are you living in an apartment now at this?

Lisa Tisdale: 15:38

time I was um on the Humbley I lived on the ship, but once I had my daughter I got an apartment and then, yeah, just being a little dope, I guess, how'd you like living in Norfolk?

Lisa Tisdale: 15:53

I didn't know any better. It was like a big city to me so it was okay, a lot to do up there. Yeah, now I can't say, once I left I didn't want to go back because I'd had enough of the traffic and all of that stuff and the base and stuff was very, very jam packed. So that. But yeah it was, it was fun, I had a good time up there.

Gary Wise: 16:15

Yeah, I only did. I did two and a half years at Virginia Beach Northbrook, but I lived in. Virginia Beach. So you know I could say I touched it for a little bit, but compared to San Diego the weather is just significantly different than San Diego. But the cost of living is better in Norfolk, you know. But you know how it is People get, they pick, they got their, they got their. Like you know, they love Norfolk or they love San Diego. So after the tenders did you go to shore duty after that?

Lisa Tisdale: 16:47

I did Back to Meridian Mississippi, to the SHA school.

Gary Wise: 16:53

I'm not even mad at you for that, though, because you got a daughter. You're like going back to meet your grandma. That's like going home, your daughter gets a chance to touch Mississippi soil and like, don't you feel that what that's like going home, your daughter gets a chance to touch Mississippi soil, and I feel that what that's like is I mean so you did three years as an instructor.

Lisa Tisdale: 17:11

I did three years. I wasn't an instructor, I worked. I was on the staff there and I did. It was about two and a half years before I switched rates and then left.

Gary Wise: 17:20

Yeah, so that was where you converted to the MA right and then left. Yeah, so that was where you converted to the MA right. Yes, when you, when you converted to MA, so did you make? You had to make SH2 first.

Lisa Tisdale: 17:31

I did. Yes, I had to make, I made. I made SH2 on the LY sphere right before I transferred to Meridian and you had to be a second class to cross over to MA at that time.

Gary Wise: 17:44

So so when did you become an MA? Like 97?, 98., 98. Okay, so you convert to being an MA in 98. Why did you choose MA? Well, you had like legal men, you had like career counselor. What was it about the MA rate that drew you to it?

Lisa Tisdale: 18:02

Well, you know, this is a very funny story because you know, back in the day when we joined the Navy, whatever your chief said, it was like yes, chief, got you, I'm on it. I had taken the SH-1 exam like six times, seven times, and my SHC he came over to I work in student control. So he came over and he was like he was like Tizia, I need to talk to you. And I was like okay, chief, so he and I went to talk. He was like here's the cause. At the time we had to do the pars, remember? He?

Lisa Tisdale: 18:32

was like take this packet, do this right here. You got to cross right to MA and I'm looking at him like I said you're kicking me out of the rink. What did I do? I was like cause I knew the SH rate is just that they weren't promoting people. And he was like no, he was like I need you to promote and right now the SH is not where it's at. So he was like he was like don't question me, woman. And then I, I I took that booklet and I started going TAB to the MA shack on the on the base and riding with them and next thing, you know, the master chief signed off on it and he was like don't worry about it, you'll get, you'll get selected. And I'm like okay, if you say so.

Gary Wise: 19:14

And it came back that I got selected, so yeah.

Gary Wise: 19:18

Well, and for the people listening to us, it is not uncommon, or it was not uncommon back then for for sailors that were in ratings that were very congested, if you will, because you could stay in the navy for 20 years as an e5 back then and so if you were trying to like an sh, for example, that was a rate that it was not uncommon for an sh2 to be a 20-year sailor. But there are lateral conversion opportunities like going to the legalman rate or going into back then it was the master at arms rate back where you can only go there as an E5 or senior and there's a few career counselors another one that comes to mind where you've got to be an E5. You have to have a little bit more seniority and a little bit more of, I'd say, seasoning so you have an idea of what's going on and for everyone to understand. The Master at Arms is essentially the law enforcement for the United States Navy and I will tell you, as Lisa knows, as a Master Chief on a ship, the MA is typically one of your right-hand people, right, because on my LSD I had one MAC.

Gary Wise: 20:23

I didn't have an MA2 or MA1. So they were not very large of a rate back then. But then 9-11 is about to come and blow all that up, right, we'll get there in just a minute. So you converted to MA2. And what's? Your first duty station as an MA?

Lisa Tisdale: 20:40

It was the USS Nimitz. After I went to MAA school and then corrections school in San Antonio, I came back to Virginia. The Nimitz was in the shipyards right. It was on the Nimitz for about two and a half years.

Gary Wise: 20:55

Okay, so the Nimitz was going through like a refueling period.

Lisa Tisdale: 20:58

Yes, it was a refueling period, yep.

Gary Wise: 21:02

That's that time that you see on the news right now with them sailors going through it because of the ships or the shipyards. And you know how you I'm sure you've seen have you done other shipyards since the nimitz, the truman, when I was on truman yes, it's the most depressing time, it is right. Yeah, it's just so depressing because you would think when you're out in the middle of the ocean like I can't wait to we're in the shipyards, we're going home every day. But it's not like that, because the workload is tremendous and like everything just feels like it's broken and busted and nothing works right and it's. It's just. That was my least favorite part about being in japan. It was like we were always in some sort of a yard period and it was. It wasn't time to stretch our legs and just be operational, you know, and to feel that. So he got to the Nimitz, did two and a half years of the yard period. Was your daughter with you then?

Lisa Tisdale: 21:55

She was not with me. She was with me for like a year of that, and then she went home. And then I had to deal with the 9-11 tragedy and so she went home, and that's when the Nimitz came out of the yards kind of early and we hit the waters.

Gary Wise: 22:16

I was going to ask you as a single mom how was that? You know I could see managing that in Meridian when you got family close, right, but back in Virginia, virginia, dealing with the ship schedule, I'm sure that's complicated, right.

Lisa Tisdale: 22:30

It was complicated, um, even though we were in the shipyards and, you know, we weren't going out to sea as a young MA too, when I checked on there, they immediately put me on the night shift because I had to learn my job, you know.

Lisa Tisdale: 22:41

So, I had to. I didn't let it stop me. I found a daycare that did nighttime daycare. I got her enrolled in that and you know, I picked her up, got her ready for school. Bam, she went to school. I got sleep. We started all over again every day and it was. It wasn't, I look at it, and it wasn't hard because I had like a lot of support from my friends and, like I said, the daycare and stuff like that.

Gary Wise: 23:07

So, ok, that's good. I mean, I would tell you, child care has always been one of the biggest challenges for what I've seen, especially, unfortunately, the young single mothers, because it just seems like more often than not it's unfortunately them that are the ones managing the day-to-day right, and it's just a fact, right, it's just how it is, and so I can only imagine I've seen it primarily overseas, where it feels like it's a little more simple there, like Norfolk, where you got that traffic and you got all the crazy stuff going on, you know. But you know people are doing it around the world. So you did your two and a half years on Nimitz Y, but you know people are doing it around the world. So you did your two and a half years on Nimitz.

Lisa Tisdale: 23:45

Y'all got underway after 9-11? Right after 9-11. We came out of the shipyards and did a shakedown, as they call it, and the first time I went out to sea on the carrier was right after we had our pinning ceremony to cheat. And then we got underway and we spent 50-something days out to sea, sea, and then we homeport shift to san diego. So I was once. We left norfolk, we were done with norfolk, we homeport to san diego so you went through chief's initiation on that, on the nimitz I did yes, how was initiation back then in 2001?

Gary Wise: 24:19

was it? Was it more focused on like 9-11 and what just happened? Or was it the experience Like? Was it what you expected it to be?

Lisa Tisdale: 24:29

It was. I didn't know what to expect and it wasn't really focused on 9-11 because I had been through most of it by the time the 9-11 tragedy hit.

Gary Wise: 24:40

That's true.

Lisa Tisdale: 24:41

And we, as a collective, we made the decision to continue. They said we could stop the training or we could continue. And we was like, collective, we made the decision to continue. They said we could stop the training or we could continue. And we was like, no, we don't finish this thing and get pinned and stuff. But it was definitely not, you know something. I was like, oh yeah, I want to do that Because it was definitely different from the seasons, you know, coming on up to now, because I tell you let me just put it like this I had to wrap my knees in cotton and gauze in order to get pinned, so I wouldn't bleed through my cat keys.

Gary Wise: 25:17

Oh, oh, oh, just from all the walk and all that yeah.

Lisa Tisdale: 25:21

Yeah, so it was a lot, but you know, I'm telling you it was, and I talked to a lot of people that I made cheap with. It's like I wouldn't change a thing. I would not change a thing. I enjoyed all of it. Yeah, I got upset about a few things, but I enjoyed all of it.

Gary Wise: 25:36

So yeah, well, I'm the same way. You know, like, as time goes on and you got people with their opinions and you got people that different, they've had different experiences, whatever. No judgment, but I can speak for my initiation and all the initiations I've been a part of. We handled our business, we took care of the job, we understood the assignment right. But I also understand that it's different in different places, that an aircraft carrier is a hell of a place to put on chief yes, it was, and we had to after the 9-11 tragedy.

Lisa Tisdale: 26:14

We had to bring it all on the ship, so the chief had to, like you know, buckle down and whoever's in charge of training had to be like okay, we can't go to these places out in town anymore, so where can we do this? On the ship. So, yeah, yeah it was. It was interesting, but it was fun.

Gary Wise: 26:26

It was fun I bet you that was actually, I mean, probably better and longer. Just because of that unique experience, I've done it on the ship. When I was on george washington we did initiation a few times on the ship. We even did it underway on the ship. Oh yeah, right, and we got it done. Right, we got it done. We got it done, we take care. We got it done, we got it done, we take care of business. All right, so you get underway on that. 55. You said you're underway for how long now?

Lisa Tisdale: 26:53

I was underway for about 50. It was like 52 to 55 days. We were out to sea, we were going to pull into Peru somewhere over that way, into Peru somewhere over that way, but because of the 9-11 tragedy it was like, no, we're not pulling an aircraft carrier, especially one. We pulled out the yards kind of early. We're going to get you where you need to be. So we were out there floating for a while. I was like, oh my goodness, get me some land.

Gary Wise: 27:20

You know my favorite thing about being at sea on the aircraft carrier, though it just felt like it was always so much going on. Yes, you know, it really did Like. It just felt like you could go out of the cheese mess, you could just walk, Like you could just walk and find places to go. I can only imagine what it was like for that carrier that just returned. I think it was the Truman, the Truman. And they was over there dropping balls.

Lisa Tisdale: 27:45

Yeah, they were, as we call it, getting it in over there.

Gary Wise: 27:50

Yeah, yeah, I think, oh my God, they were getting it in. I'm sure that had to have some energy to it. I'm sure being underway after 9-11 had to have some energy to it as well. You know, I was a recruiter at the time and it was a very interesting perspective to be watching everything from that vantage point and all the ships going to sea and knowing that they're going to be turning it up a notch. Then, of course, you get that, oh my God, it's going to be over before I get, before anything happens. Meanwhile, 18 years later, we still gonna be doing stuff. So you did the Nimitz, you got over, you guys got your deployment done or whatever it was. Where'd you go after the Nimitz?

Lisa Tisdale: 28:35

Down to NAS Pensacola.

Gary Wise: 28:38

Okay, that's not a bad duty station.

Lisa Tisdale: 28:40

No, I enjoyed it. I was the chief of police down there brand new chief. So they were like, yep, you're going to be the chief of police. I'm like okay, because working with civilians and military, but I loved it yeah.

Gary Wise: 28:50

Yeah, yeah. So back then were they already under CNIC, or was that not a thing yet?

Lisa Tisdale: 28:58

I see I can't remember, but I don't think so. But you know, I was just all about security at that point. The base was just like a place that housed us at the time, you know.

Gary Wise: 29:12

Right, I always wondered what installation security was like pre-9-11 when there wasn't a million MAs. Right, Because, again, for everyone listening to the sound of my voice, I was a recruiter. I'll tell you what after 9-11, MA became the hottest thing, selling Like we was dumping people into the MA rate, like it was nothing. Like it was nothing. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, everybody.

Lisa Tisdale: 29:38

In Pensacola they were cross-rating a lot of people because I remember that's when they started promoting like 400 chief petty officers at a time. People were making first class cause they needed the leadership because they was going to open the rate up. So it was the promotion picked up big time and so, but it got rough, it got the MA rate got big very quickly, so it got big very quickly.

Gary Wise: 30:05

It got the MA rate got big very quickly, so it got big very quickly. I just I always wonder how they manned the installation security pre 9-11. And was it as complicated as it is today? Cause I will tell you what it almost feels like? It's a fricking. It's impossible as it is today, based on all the and I would tell you from the ship perspective as well right when they raised up all these force protection policies but they didn't give us more bodies to offset all these policies. It was like we had so many topside rovers, we got so many people that need gun quals, and it was just a complication, but that we've never come back off of it. I think somebody needs to look at that again and be like alright, what does Wright look like? Because the Manning you know what I hated when I was in the Navy? They'd be like we got this many billets but they're not funded. Bro, I've heard that so many times.

Lisa Tisdale: 31:01

What does that even mean? Why do you have the ability if you can't fund them?

Gary Wise: 31:05

How you gonna tell me you know we need 300 more people, but you can't give us the 300 more people because you can't pay for them Exactly, we're gonna be held accountable to doing the job. It just drives me up a freaking wall, man. Now maybe one thing. Well, nobody wants to join the military. Okay, check, I got that.

Gary Wise: 31:29

So here they're having a problem with school bus drivers in Florida. Right, and I got my bus driver license because I drive school buses. Right, I love it. I drive the hell out of them too. I'm going to drive a school bus actually next week for the ROTC leadership camp and I drive the bus and the kids are like hey, thank you, bus driver. I'm like you know what, you're very welcome.

Gary Wise: 31:54

I worked my whole life to be your bus driver and my kid had to be like that's our master chief. I'm like no, I'm the bus driver, don't listen to that, I'm just the bus driver. But I was getting my certification done and the lady named Trina was training me and she was like Gary, why don't you drive buses for us in the mornings? And I was like well, why? She's like we're down like 18 bus drivers and nobody wants the job. That's why all the kids are getting to school late because they're waiting on the buses. I was like you know what y'all should do Take those 18 vacant billets you got, take all that money, give it to all the people driving the buses so they all get pay raises, and then hire one or two more bus drivers at the better pay rates, exactly Because you got 18 empty spots people not making no more money and the money?

Lisa Tisdale: 32:43

where's the money going? It ain't your money Exactly. It's sitting there paying people that are already doing the job.

Gary Wise: 32:48

Yeah, you know I just can't. Sometimes the government kills me and it's all kinds of bureaucracies, right. It's not just federal or state or city or whatever. It's. Just you hear it and it doesn't make sense and you know there's better ways to do things. But then the amount of crap you got to go through to fix it ain't worth the time. So you did NAS Pensacola and you was did you leave that as senior chief?

Lisa Tisdale: 33:17

I did.

Gary Wise: 33:17

I left there as a senior chief yes, oh, I bet, I bet, because right now you right at the top, right, right where it's coming. Hey, damage control was the same thing, right? When I struck damage control man, there was a young DC chief on the Bellowood that made senior chief. Everybody was saying, oh, dc is a young rate, they advance a real good. Go strike DC, dc. Because if you get it right, and so I know I remember when MA felt that way and I remember when MM got that way after they ERB'd all those damn MMs and they started promoting everybody because it kicked them all out. I remember that. Anyway, see, that's the thing, people like us. We know where the skeletons are buried. Right, we got the. We know where the bodies are at. Right, we know where the bodies are at. I'm watching the news, I'm reading these things. I'm like man, we knew this was coming. Anyway, so after Pensacola and you're a senior chief, what's next for you?

Lisa Tisdale: 34:15

I went to Bahrain. Did you have to? Well, I initially Did you have to? Well, I initially had orders to Gitmo and I was like whoa, wait a minute. Because it was all throughout the news where all these sailors and you know soldiers getting in trouble for you know retaliating against the prisoners and stuff. And I was like, why does my name on orders to go to Gitmo? Because you know they were pulling MAs left and right going to Gitmo. And I was like, oh my God, I got to talk to somebody. I have to get out of these orders and I already had orders to Bahrain. So I went and talked to my CO on the base and I was like, sir, do you know how I can execute my orders to Bahrain and not have to go to Gitmo? I said, because that'll end my career, because you know that all the things that they said a prisoner was doing, especially to female guard people, I was like that'll be the end of me in the Navy.

Lisa Tisdale: 35:11

And he was like, don't worry about it. And next thing I know somebody else was somebody in Whitefield or somewhere were getting pulled to go to Gitmo and I was able to execute my orders to Bahrain which was great.

Gary Wise: 35:24

I loved it in.

Lisa Tisdale: 35:24

Bahrain.

Gary Wise: 35:25

Well, I remember when they stood Gitmo up and they were just pulling people from all, anybody that had ever been like brig duty was going to Gitmo, exactly Right. I remember I walked off from getting frocked to DC-1. The guy that was supposed to be the lpo just got a message that day he was going to get mo for a 12 month ia, right, and we was like, what does ia stand for? We had no idea, we had no clue. And then and so, and the way it all went you know, so I can.

Gary Wise: 35:55

I remember when that was happening and the reason why I asked is you have to go was because the MA community went through this phase where it was like you had to do a geobatch tour in Bahrain yeah, like you had to, and for you to not do it was like a career killer or it was like looked down upon or whatever it was. That's why I was asking. But a lot of people that make it to the kingdom of Bahrain right, they call it the kingdom, the kingdom. They enjoy themselves over there. You know, even though I did see it in the news a while back, they had some people out there enjoying themselves too much, right, and it's easy to do.

Lisa Tisdale: 36:32

It's easy to do because you're over there, you're making all this tax-free money and family self-pay. I mean it's very easy to get in a lot of trouble because you end up getting drunk and then you really start disrespecting people's culture and stuff like that. So it's very easy for the sailors to get out of hand and, you know, get out of pocket with stuff.

Gary Wise: 36:53

Well, and you know, like anywhere in this world, we're a target and so they're going to want to get, they're going to want to create opportunities for us to be less than our best. Right, and while we have as much, we have a hand in it. I also say that there's people looking to prey on us, and we've got, we've got to be careful with those things.

Lisa Tisdale: 37:11

Oh, absolutely, I 100% agree.

Gary Wise: 37:13

Yeah, but but it's everywhere.

Lisa Tisdale: 37:15

So after Bahrain and you're, you leave Bahrain are you still a senior chief at that time? Are you doing like LE?

Gary Wise: 37:25

Yes, I was law enforcement. Okay, because at that time the Riverines were going and they were not yet part of the MA community. No, not yet. Because now there's a huge Bahrain MA community and a huge Bahrain law enforcement community. Because I had what?

Lisa Tisdale: 37:41

400 MAs over there in Bahrain under community and a huge Bahrain law enforcement community, Because I had what 400 MAs over there in Bahrain under me. They called it the Assistant Security Officer, but I was the Chief of Police, Chief Master of Arms, whatever, and it was a big contingent of Master of Arms over there.

Gary Wise: 37:55

That's a lot of MAs.

Lisa Tisdale: 37:57

It is so when people around the installations can't get their bodies, they chuck them all over to they. At that point they were sending them all over to Bahrain, so yeah, wow, okay.

Gary Wise: 38:09

And so then, after Bahrain, what were you thinking for your career? How many years you have it at that point?

Lisa Tisdale: 38:14

I had 15, almost 16.

Gary Wise: 38:18

Okay, so 15, almost 16. And you went geobatched to Bahrain. Your daughter's probably what like 10 years old now.

Lisa Tisdale: 38:26

Actually, yes, she was like 10 or 12. Yeah, Something like that.

Gary Wise: 38:31

And she's in Mississippi at that time.

Lisa Tisdale: 38:32

She was in Mississippi with my mom, yes, Okay.

Gary Wise: 38:35

What are you looking at at that point in your life? I mean 15 years in the Navy, coming off a GeoBadge tour.

Lisa Tisdale: 38:43

I knew I was going to stay in because I was by myself taking care of her, but I didn't even have a choice. The Navy was telling me exactly everywhere I've always gone. I had no choice in choosing. The Navy was like no, you got orders here, you got orders here. So they did the same thing. Coming out of Bahrain, I just didn't have a choice. I went to the Kitty Hawk in Japan okay, okay.

Gary Wise: 39:09

So you went to the Kitty Hawk in Japan. What year did you get there? Do you think like 2000? Like, did you decom? Did you decom the Kitty Hawk?

Lisa Tisdale: 39:17

I did. I decom the Kitty Hawk. Yes, I think I spent a year in Japan Actually maybe a year and a half in Japan on the Kitty Hawk. Then I took her to Washington State and that's where we decommissioned her at.

Gary Wise: 39:31

Did you make Mast Chief on Kitty Hawk?

Lisa Tisdale: 39:33

I did yep About a year after I got there, I picked up Mast Chief.

Gary Wise: 39:38

That's pretty cool right there. You made Chief on the Nimitz, you made Master Chief on a steam carrier Yep.

Lisa Tisdale: 39:47

The killer is nobody. They couldn't even get anybody to fill the Master Chief role on the Kitty.

Lisa Tisdale: 39:54

Hall when I got there they had an NAC filling the role. They tried to get people, tried to get people, and then they just forced me to go, which was fine. I was like, all right, I'm going to Japan, and as soon as I get there, people are saying, oh, you're going to pick up nine, you're going to pick up nine. I'm like, okay, well, I'm here to be the chief master of arms, but when I get there, that's when all the other senior chiefs was like man.

Lisa Tisdale: 40:18

I was trying to get to the Kitty Hawk. I'm like no, you chose this, you just got to where you're going. I guess it was just meant for me to come to the Kitty Hawk.

Gary Wise: 40:31

I will tell you. I was on George Washington after Kitty Hawk and it was the same problems. We got an MACS there eventually and she made Master Chief. Mcquaid came out there as a chief and she ended up making Senior Chief and she went on to do great things but they never. I don't remember us ever getting an MACM straight up. It was always an MACS that promotes the Master Chief there. What was? How did you feel about the Kitty Hawk crew? Because I've heard nothing but legends about that ship and that crew.

Lisa Tisdale: 41:04

Right, you know I can honestly say, before I crossed over to be a command master chief, the Kitty Hawk was my best tour ever.

Gary Wise: 41:13

Okay.

Lisa Tisdale: 41:14

I absolutely loved that Chief Smith's onboard Kitty Hawk was what we teach others that the Chief Smith is about. It was it didn't fail. I mean because I want to get in there and get a position in the Chief. I was like I want to be the treasurer, I want to do something because I was trying to get my email boosted.

Gary Wise: 41:32

I was going to do my job.

Lisa Tisdale: 41:34

So I want to do something else and I got to be the treasurer and anything I sent out, leave me help with it. I mean, the amount of emails that came in was like Lisa, what you need, what you need. When we went to see on deployment and we pulled in every port, we pulled into that first night if you didn't have duty. The chief's mess had a function. I had to set it up and I'm telling you they showed up in force. We were so tight in that chiefs mess it was just fantastic. Yeah, I enjoyed it. The crew, the CO, cmc, because we had Chuck Clark as the CMC. We had Ashley Gray first, who was phenomenal, and then Chuck Clark took over and it was just a great command. I love the Kitty Hawk.

Gary Wise: 42:21

I used to love Chuck. I met Chuck Clark when he was Fleet Forces actually, and he would always tell me about when he got, when he became CMC Kitty Hawk, for being like an NC and then made him the CMC. He just skipped all the way to the front of the line on everything On everything he did, yes.

Gary Wise: 42:39

Yeah, I was just like, how did that even make sense? But I mean, hey, you're the right guy for the job. And the captain got back in those days being the CMC. It wasn't like what it became, right, it wasn't. It wasn't. There wasn't a command senior chief rating, right. It was just looked at differently. A lot of growing happened. I would say, really from campbell all the way forward, right in my opinion, right in my opinion. That's really where it all kind of heads up and then.

Gary Wise: 43:08

So my cmc when I was on george washington was in your mess on the kitty hawk. That was marty king, the ao master chief. Okay, yeah, yeah, he was. You know, he was cmc for gw and then with the base mass chief. So whenever people get mad at me, I'm like bro, you were raised by marty king, bro, he was CMC for GW and then was the base match chief. So whenever people get mad at me, I'm like bro, you were raised by Marty King. Bro, trust me, he used to get me for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Exactly, it was a sport. Get in here.

Lisa Tisdale: 43:38

That's it.

Gary Wise: 43:39

Marty, he's good people, though, man, he's a good guy.

Lisa Tisdale: 43:42

But do you know, on the carriers, you're not going to succeed as a command master chief if the other master chiefs are not backing you up. And with Chuck I was the scene chief. When I got there and I picked up master chief, he started really leaning on me. So I was able to understand that dynamic more. And I was just looking at all the other master chiefs. They was like Chuck, don't worry about it, you go there, I'll order this meeting. Lisa, can you take this meeting? So you have to have those other master chiefs the chiefs master as a whole, but really the master chiefs to back you up on there to make sure you're not failing at your job.

Gary Wise: 44:17

I will tell you, there's just nothing like being on a ship right, and let alone a ship of that size. And then, of course, there's such a difference being ship's company right, right, I agree with you and I look back on all my years in the Navy my two, I mean. I had three really, really fun ship tours. Two of them was as a Master Chief, as a, a cmc, and those were the highlights of my career, right, and it was like everything everybody I needed was on that, on that ship, you know, for the ad port to starboard, I had it top to bottom, I had it all. And when you were, when it was on the state, when you were a conus or when you were on the installation, it's harder because you got to find people and chase things around and all these competing problems and whatnot. So did you go to the CMC program after you decommed Kitty Hawk?

Lisa Tisdale: 45:11

No, I went to Swift Pack up in Washington State Because when we decommed, before we even left Japan, they had our detailers I mean ship-wide full of detailers on there, and the only thing they had for me was either up in Maine or Silverdale, washington, and I was like Maine.

Gary Wise: 45:35

I was like they would get you to the snow one way or the other.

Lisa Tisdale: 45:39

Right, there's some basin in Maine. And then I was like, okay, I'm just going to go to Washington State, because my MAC he had put on officer. And he went to Washington State I said, at least I'm on Marlin up there, so I'm going up there to Swift Pack where he's at. So that's why I ended up in the pack north west and Swift Pack.

Gary Wise: 45:58

are they submarines? Is that what they're doing? Is that why they're Swift? They are.

Lisa Tisdale: 46:04

We guarded nuclear weapons up there and we had a Marine contingent and a Master Arm contingent up there.

Gary Wise: 46:16

How hard was that? To keep the young MAs motivated with that job.

Lisa Tisdale: 46:18

It was very hard because it seemed because you know, marines are bred differently when it's like you just go do your job and you know, keep them complaints to somebody who wants to hear it, you know whereas the sailors were kind of a little different from that. But when I came in I started, you know, just going out visiting and laughing and joking and taking candy out to see Marines and sailors, both, and it was just I was just trying to heighten their morale and stuff like that.

Lisa Tisdale: 46:46

And they just started telling me their issues and their problems and I would try to. I wrote Mick Pond a couple times. It was Rick West, I think it was at the time and I was, because our MAs there that was counted as one of their shore duties, but they would go into, they would call it.

Lisa Tisdale: 47:05

I can't remember behind the wire is what they were calling when it was their turn up to go in there to guard stuff, um, but they would spend like three weeks in their time away from their families, three weeks. They both got there and did what they had to do. So it was one of them that came up with the idea of like why don't the Navy count this as like a sea duty for rotation purpose? Not give us sea pay or nothing like that? And I was like I got together with the chiefs and we came up with a proposal and McPond came to town and I was like I want to go speak to McPond about it, you know. And I went and he was eating lunch and I said, hey, whenever you get a chance, you're going to come up there. Can I have a few minutes of your time?

Lisa Tisdale: 47:45

And I was holding Levi I had had my son at the time. He was like four months, five months, and McPon was like I'm not talking to you, give me that baby. And he was holding Levi and stuff and then going to slip one of his McPon coins in Levi's little overall pocket right now. Oh, I'm getting mad, you know. And then he was like sure, he was like whenever you have time, you let me know. He gave me his cell phone number and I text him and I was like, hey, you know, whenever you have time I would like to take you to lunch so we can talk about this.

Lisa Tisdale: 48:18

He was like, let me take you to lunch and let's talk about this, and he took it. I sent the proposal to him and his ea I had already gone, but they let me know that they approved it and those people they started getting so when they left there they could actually go to a legit short unit, to where they can kind of relax a little bit.

Gary Wise: 48:35

So yeah, I would say I've heard nothing but horror stories from that duty station. I want to come to the op tempo and to the rotation. But it's such an important job. It's just there's just certain jobs that are in our military that people just know are going to be tough, right, and I think that's that's awesome, lisa, that you got that. Yeah, because I think that's hopefully. Do the Marines get the same thing too, I wonder.

Lisa Tisdale: 48:58

We couldn't get it to pass for them. So thing too, I wonder they didn't. We couldn't get it to um pass for them. Um, so if I, because the sergeant major was like shoot, because I had a sergeant major counterpart there and he was like this would be awesome, if you know, my guys wouldn't have to ship out and go overseas after this. You know, but I don't the last word I had that they wouldn't approve it for them, but then the navy approved it for us. Um, our guys up there.

Gary Wise: 49:22

Okay, well, that's good stuff, and so it's. During that duty station you decided to apply for the CMC program. Nope.

Lisa Tisdale: 49:29

It was after that I went to the Truman up in Virginia again and I was on there with Mark Bather. You know Mark Bather, right, I was up there with him and he was like okay, lisa, you need to look at becoming a CMC. And I was like, nope, ma for life, nope, nope, nope, nope. And then, of course, what's his name? Nick Pond. Mike Stevens, who everybody used to say way back in the day that he was my see-dad, is ever since I met him in Pensacola. He came on board and was talking to the chief smith and he was like is that Lisa Tisdale? And I was like, and he was like he said CMC, package right. And I was like, no, sorry, mcclun, ma for life and all the MAs were like, yeah, ma for life.

Lisa Tisdale: 50:19

And he was like, yeah, we'll see, we'll see. Mike Stevens was so persistent that the CMC Mark Mather came to me and he was like Lisa, I need your CMC package and I need it now.

Gary Wise: 50:26

He said you got the Nick Pond fussing at me, so it was on Truman when I put in my CMC package and got picked up yeah, and so when you apply for the CMC program, besides Stevens being after you and Mark Bathur and all your career, what were your other motivations for wanting to do it? Was it just wanting to meet their expectations and you wanted to play your position, or were there other reasons as well?

Lisa Tisdale: 50:56

There were other reasons. Because, on Truman, when I was a chief master of arms, I had two chief petty officers. Of course I had a second, but I had two chief petty officers and my four fantastic first classes, four MA1s that literally worked me out of a job. All they needed for me to do to be the muscle when somebody came down there messing with them and you know a little, five foot two and a half tens that coming in swinging you know Right, right in swinging but when it came to the job.

Lisa Tisdale: 51:23

The two chiefs were running everything, the MA1s was backing them up and I was literally walking around the ship speaking to sailors doing the CMC thing. I even stood in for Mark when he had to go. The CO loved it. It was Captain Tim Bay, the one that passed away on Truman. He loved it. And so I was like, wow, I had to think everywhere I go now as an MA, I'm going to always have those badass chiefs and those first classes that are just killing it and I literally won't have a job anywhere I go, except being the muscle to protect everybody. I was like. But if I become a CMC, that means I can protect the entire command and be in on what is going to help the sailors, making sure that get pushed through. So it was that that motivated me, mcpun pushing me there, and it was a combination of all of that and I loved it. It was probably the best decision I ever made, best decision I ever made.

Gary Wise: 52:21

I hear that I look back on my career and I tell people I read this somewhere else, so I'm not going to take credit for it. But God, it was applicable. Going CMC was the best career decision I ever made, but maybe it wasn't always the best personal decision I ever made. If I hadn't gone CMC, I would have got out at 20. I was cooked, I was burnt. As a DC mass chief on an aircraft carrier, I had exactly the opposite experience. I had nobody. I built it and we flew it. We made it work. I did a great job, but I told my wife I was like I did a great job, but I told, I told my wife I was like if I got to do that again, it's going to kill me. Yeah and so, and then I always wanted to become a CMC and I loved the job, I loved it all. But, man, it can break your heart sometimes. You know, yeah, it can. It can really break your heart. Okay, so you went CMC. Where did you go to for your first CMC tour?

Lisa Tisdale: 53:27

I went to a helicopter squadron HSM-77. They started out in. I spent two weeks in San Diego with them and then we moved the rest of the command to Japan and I actually deployed on board in George Washington when we deployed.

Gary Wise: 53:39

Okay, and what years were you on that squadron, on board?

Lisa Tisdale: 53:43

George Washington when we deployed Okay, and what years were you on that squadron? I got there in 2013. Okay, the end of 2012, the beginning of 2013, and left in 15.

Gary Wise: 53:52

So, yeah, you must have done that first. I think you might have done that first patrol with me in 13, and then I would have left right around there. Okay, because I left the GW June of 13. Okay, yeah, but actually no, no, no, I bet you that patrol. I didn't go with you because we're always at the yards and they made me stick with them, so you would have got there right after I left. So how did you like? Being deployed or being embarked on board the carrier as an airway?

Lisa Tisdale: 54:22

It was definitely different because, being ship's company and as a senior person, you're kind of involved in a lot of different things. Whereas being embarked on there and your squadron, you just involved with that squadron stuff, that's it. You go, you know, talking to the XO and stuff like that, and you, you know, definitely collaborate with the SHIP CMC, but you're really not involved in anything, it's all about your squadron and taking care of your squadron people.

Gary Wise: 54:50

So yeah, you know I always so my long-term plan, right way back before I met you, my long-term plan was to. I wanted to be somebody someday, you know. So my plan was I was going to go back to the amphibs because I was a gator sailor and I was going to be an LSD CMC and practicing embarking Marines Right, because I had been on the carrier. I'd embarked air wing before, so now I wanted to. I'd done other lal amphib tours but never had I worried so much about the care and feeding of the people I was embarking, right. I just it was just like on my boat getting in my way, right.

Gary Wise: 55:32

And when I was on the gw I really got more involved with like taking care of the air wing and making sure they got their gas mask. So I was like, okay, to get the best package possible to be a cvn cmc someday. I want to do it. I was going to do a uh lsd first to show I can embark people. Then I was going to go to the helo squadron and so I could be embarked and then and then shoot my shot for that, for that big. But you know, other people get other ideas and away we all go.

Lisa Tisdale: 56:05

Absolutely.

Gary Wise: 56:06

But I knew.

Lisa Tisdale: 56:06

I didn't want to be a CBN CMC because when I stood in, ray Kemp took over for Mark Mather on Truman and I stood in a lot for him. I can't remember that. He's an admiral now, I can't remember his name. He was tough. And then I had to go on sea trials with them and then embark the air wing and I was like mm-mm, I don't know.

Gary Wise: 56:31

And I can only imagine going from Mark Bathurst to Ray Kent. Yeah, that's a totally different game right there. Yeah, but you know.

Lisa Tisdale: 56:42

Ray, he held it down on there. You know and you know a great cmc and but you know him and the co when they would go because we were in the shipyard. So when they would go somewhere it was me and the xo and I was like and it was fun, it was a lot of fun, especially in the ship part.

Lisa Tisdale: 57:01

But, when we came out of the yards they had to do those workups and stuff, and Mark, I mean, and Ray would be gone somewhere. I was like, Ooh, this is a lot of work. So my hat's off to those carrier CMCs.

Gary Wise: 57:12

It's arguably, in my opinion, the most challenging job as a CMC in the United States. Right, I think with that? Because, again, right behind us, the LHD CMCs, right, that have a big ship but don't get all that shine, okay, so you did the air wing job, you did the Sugi right At Sugi right.

Lisa Tisdale: 57:34

Is that?

Gary Wise: 57:34

where the air wing was out of. That's where the Sugi is Okay, because I saw them actually all move. A lot of them moved down there to Iwakuni. Yeah, now, after that era of that Hilo Squadron, is that where you went from there to be in the base CMC?

Lisa Tisdale: 57:51

No, I left there and I went to L'Amour, to the FRC over there in L'Amour.

Gary Wise: 57:57

As the CMC Mm-hmm. They hooked you right on up. They was like, hey, she used to be an MA. I wasn't the Bay CMC.

Lisa Tisdale: 58:06

I was the FRC CMC Because the Fleet Readiness Center I'm like. Okay, just because I'm in an aviation squadron, don't mean I know anything about aviation, but you don't have to know anything about that, but I think what kind of got me there was. I was trying to get on the training team out of I think Hawaii, the CPO training team. Yes, and I ran into a. Just let me say this if people don't want you to get a job, you won't get the job.

Gary Wise: 58:43

But anyway, I ran into a Hold on, we can say that we were tired. They some assholes out there yeah.

Lisa Tisdale: 58:49

I had nothing but glowing reviews.

Lisa Tisdale: 58:52

I talked to the CEO and I pretty much had that job because this dude was pretty much, you know, like okay, I got one more person to, and it's the air wing, because we were still attached to the air wing in San Diego even though we were in, and so that air wing CMC said that I didn't communicate with him. I have an air wing CMC in Japan too. They were on the same email when I sent anything significant happening. They were on the same email. But since he didn't see me, he didn't know. And that dude had the nerve.

Lisa Tisdale: 59:27

Now, Jason, he the CMC in Japan, he ranked me as the number one CMC out of all eight squadrons. This dude, don't tell the CEO that was pulling for this job that he would rank me as number eight out of all of his, because he didn't ever see me. I was like my CO was so upset, everybody was red. I was like it's just, I guess I'm just not meant to do that. And so I just went on to FRC because I was like well, this is the only thing I got, so let me just go and get it.

Gary Wise: 1:00:00

So bro, I you know, I'm sorry to hear that and unfortunately it happens way too often to people and I just I got so disenfranchised by some of that behind-the-scenes baseball that was happening that, I'll be honest, it is probably top three reasons why I retired, and number one, what I did, because I mean, I retired at 25 years, right. And top number one was my family, yeah, right. And number two was I was just done. I was just done, I couldn't play the game no more. But then number three was I knew it was people out there making moves, making things happen, and I know that because I had been around it and I knew that it was just, I didn't feel fair, right. And then they could tell you whatever they wanted to tell you, but we all knew it wasn't happening like that, right, okay? So then you're at the FRC in Lemoore. Your job is to make sure all the repairs are happening, I guess throughout the fleet. Is that what it is?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:01:06

Well, yeah, I had over 1,000 sailors at FRC. I was bigger than the base, my sailor capacity was bigger than the actual base. So I used to tell people all the time if you need sailor power and I don't give you sailor power, then you can't function the base. Cmc going back and forth. It was a big command and it was a post-tour 06 command because he was going to get there and then make 06. It was a hard command and they, they had a lot of work.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:01:38

People from all up and down the West Coast would send their jet engines there to be repaired and stuff like that it was a lot of work and those sailors were feeling because it was nothing to do with war and they were feeling the pain and I had it. I had to kind of rub there trying to keep those, keep those sailors. I had four suicides there in two years and if you ask any CMC or ask me, that is a hard, that is the worst part ever, you know. It's like, it's like I couldn't do nothing to stop that, you know. And I was just like, wow, I have my CO got fired and the Vegas master chief got fired and people, the sailors were so upset over that because they thought, because they were like, yep, the admins said we're going to relieve the CO and we're going to relieve the master chief. So they thought it meant the command master chief.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:02:32

And when I tell you, sailors started acting a fool and was like, no, uh-uh, uh-uh. I mean even the chief's mess was like. And then I had to come out and let them know, was like hey, guys, I'm still here, it's the maintenance master chief. And they was like, oh, okay, we're good with that, you know.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:02:49

so but you know I had the backing of my sailors because you know it was tough, because I just it was hard to keep those guys uplifted and hard to keep them motivated to do all of that hard work when you know 1600, no, you're not knocking off. We got this engine to get back up to Washington State, so you're going to be here to eight so we can get this thing done. How do you explain that to them? You know?

Gary Wise: 1:03:14

For a lot of those sailors that were getting those orders. Were they choosing to be in Lemoore because they had done other squadrons that were out of Lemoore so they liked being in Lemoore, or were they getting orders to Lemoore?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:03:28

It was probably 50-50 on that. A lot of them they needed so many maintenance people there, so many ATs, aes and all of that they needed them. So a lot of them were getting forced there and all of that they needed them. So a lot of them were getting forced there and a lot of them would bounce back from the squadron to FRC, from this one squadron to FRC. So it was about 50-50. Yeah.

Gary Wise: 1:03:50

Even in the CMC community, they'd be posting on the weekly like come to Le Mans. And it would just be like in Japan, right, because people don't want to go to Japan. And it would just be like in Japan, right, because people don't want to go to Japan. People don't want to go to Guam, people don't want to go to Lemoore, right? That duty station had one of those labels to it, oh yeah. But then you had those other people that loved it there. Oh yeah, they were super proud of it.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:04:14

They went homestead there and I was like I did two years and could not wait to get up out of there.

Gary Wise: 1:04:20

Yeah, I heard that. So after Lemoore you didn't get your chance to be on the CPO training team. What are you at the years in the Navy at this point? Are you like at 24, 25 years in the Navy? Yeah, I think so.

Gary Wise: 1:04:34

But your plan is to go all the way to third, like you go, I'm going all the way. At that point I was going all the way to third. You go, I'm going all the way. Oh, at that point I was going all the way. Yeah, but you had Levi. You said he was like three, four years old at this point, mm-hmm yep, and the more he was.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:04:46

yeah, he was about four yeah, okay.

Gary Wise: 1:04:49

And you said did you want to go back to Japan? Did you want to go back overseas? I wanted to.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:04:55

I did want to go back overseas, but I wanted to go to naples and yet and again, again, somebody stopped me from getting that job. I, I literally, gary, I literally had that job. The co was sending me stuff saying hey, I need you to get familiar on this because this is what we're going to have to tackle when you get here. So wouldn't you think, think you had that job. But it came out that a certain at the time Fleet Master Chief was like no, I don't think she'll do a good job at this command. And so at that point, because I talked to the guy that was over there and I was like I need to know what happened, because I know that I was coming there, because you had even told me no, bring your son, he's gonna love it.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:05:44

Y'all can take trips and stuff like that. And he was like I'll have to. He said, let me tell you, let's call when I'm off the base one day and we can talk. And he called me and he told me exactly who put they foot on that. And so once that didn't happen, the hot sheep came out and it was like L'Amour N-A-S L'Amour. And I was like, oh my God, no. And Ed Sugi. And I was like, and so I called Joe Farney. Do you know, joe Farney? I called Joe because he was the region that sheep over there. I was like, hey, what do I need to do to get these orders to Ed Sui? I said, because L'Amour is coming up and I'm not trying to stay here.

Gary Wise: 1:06:23

Hey, I knew Joe Farney when he was the CTF70 CMC on board GW and, as a matter of fact, when I was CMC of Ashland, I flew Joe Farney down from Yoko to be our speaker at our khaki ball.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:06:36

Oh, nice yeah.

Gary Wise: 1:06:38

Yeah, joe was good people man. He also had some haters. He had some people that didn't like him too much. He ended up going back to, I think, rhode Island.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:06:46

He was up there. He was up there at the War College because he was one of my favorite admins up there in my chat field, so, yeah, but he yeah, that's another story right, yeah, that's another story right and he was there and so he told me. He said send me your stuff, lisa, and I ended up getting that job there in that city.

Gary Wise: 1:07:09

That's good. I mean, joe was good people and you know what. I just hate to hear that there was somebody in between your business Because, again, you had to submit all your packages up to the CO who was supposed to pick his CMC out of all these people. He emailed you and how some other master chief, some other E9 could have been between you and an opportunity. You don't get more retirement pay, bro, because you got a different badge you wearing or because you got a different Like what you doing, dude.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:07:45

Like. But you know, once that person told me who it was, I knew it because they didn't like me when I was at their command. So I knew it, but they didn't tell me that. But other people would tell me. So I'm like you know what I'm going to keep doing me and what's for me will be for me. It is what it is.

Gary Wise: 1:08:03

Man, good for you, because I'd be calling people up like I'm coming over, I'm on my way. When I was on the George Washington, I used to tell people, if you have a problem with the damage control, you could expect a short ball hand to do it or a red head to come walk through that door and it's fitting young. Yeah, it's about to be over. I give you God, I give you so much props for having the grace and having the poise and having the maturity to not lose your damn mind. Exactly, oh golly. Especially when it feels personal, right, because that for me is the hardest pill for me to swallow is when it feels personal.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:08:43

It ain't even professional, right, it's personal like you can't attack me on a professional level because you know it's not warranted, but you come at me on a personal level when it's like you don't like me because people like me better than you. What is that?

Gary Wise: 1:08:57

you know so, and the reality of it is, all of us, at a certain level, are equalized on the professional. It is about personal, because the nuance of what makes some people better than others is that personal touch, because we're all freaking the same damn near professional.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:09:18

You're just working for a higher ranking admiral than I am. We all do the same thing.

Gary Wise: 1:09:24

I'm going to tell you that's how you lose good people. You let these people start making moves and what they're doing is just pull up. Exactly, you go to AXA. You get the base job there. That's after the Iwakuni move, right?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:09:43

No, the Jets are still there at this point. It was during my time there that the air wing, the Jets not the helicopter squad from State, but the Jets moved to Iwakuni.

Gary Wise: 1:09:57

How'd you like Atsugi as the base master? How did I like Atsugi?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:10:01

How'd you like Atsugi as the base match team? How did?

Gary Wise: 1:10:02

I like Atsugi. How'd you like being a base CMC? How'd you like being Atsugi's, a little bit different than Yakuska?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:10:09

It is. It's smaller and less, you know, but I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it because I got involved with the schools and different things like that and going to you know, and just I loved it. Got involved with the schools and different things like that and going to you know, and just I loved it. Got involved with the JMSDF and you know, went and did training with them and hung out with their master chiefs and stuff like that. I really had a good time. I really did.

Gary Wise: 1:10:34

I enjoyed it Nice, and then from there you got your opportunity to go work with Admiral Chatfield and. Mariana right, yes, yes. How was that? Did you have any idea that Guam was going to possibly be on that? I mean, you wanted to go to Naples, right, you wanted to have a European adventure.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:10:54

Right.

Gary Wise: 1:10:56

Hey look, I love Guam for a lot of things, but there's something Guam is not. Guam is not Naples, exactly. It's not going to put you in the middle of Europe where you can bounce all around Europe and see all these things, exactly. But on the reverse side, I mean, we got to Guam and they shut everything down anyway. So we weren't going nowhere, wasn't going anywhere, yeah, anyway. So we weren't going nowhere, wasn't going anywhere, yeah. So when you got the job for Guam and to go Marianas, were you excited about that opportunity?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:11:29

I was excited because I had never, you know, thought I would, you know, be a region CMC. And then there, you know, they had the Coast Guard there and stuff like that, and then the Air Force we dealt with them, and then the Marines and stuff. I was excited. That was like the first time I had done an interview with the Admiral. It was nerve-wracking, but we hit it off and stuff. She had three or four more people that she wanted to interview. She called back the next day and asked me did I want the job? I'm like, absolutely I love working with her. She's uh, she's, she's amazing, she's amazing yeah, yeah, no, I'm not.

Gary Wise: 1:12:09

I'm not gonna disparage anything on her. I just think that it's always interesting when we see people in the later on in years and as things go right. You saw that one Admiral just got popped from out of service. He was yes, anyway, right, hey, you know what? Any day in the Navy, yeah, you know. So I, whatever, whatever happened to her, but I know when I first got to Guam, she was still the Admiral there as well, and I remember she would get dressed up and go do story reading for the kids. She was very involved. Looking at your time on Guam, and that's where we got the chance to start together, actually work together. Did you do the full three years on Guam or did you go off there a little bit?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:12:58

early. No, I did the full three years. No, I did a full three years. No, I was there from 2018 to 2020.

Gary Wise: 1:13:05

I did about two and a half years, something like that.

Gary Wise: 1:13:09

Two and a half years. How did you like your time on Guam with Marianas? I mean, like you said, you had the diversity of the two of the Coast Guard. You had the Air Force involved but you had the Army involvement. An I have an admiral who also was like five bosses. Right, he's like he or she's got like five, like literally five different bosses and they even I heard they actually changed it up recently even to being even a little more dynamic of a role and, like you have a one star up up there, an Anderson Air Force base. You've got a two-star now, I think, running there. You had Admiral Minoni, who he went on to do he's doing great things.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:13:48

He is still in the Navy from what I heard. Yeah, he's still in the Navy.

Gary Wise: 1:13:51

Last I saw him he was like see and I see, and I was like what he was saying man for seeing, I see, yeah he was like oh wait, this is a tough job.

Gary Wise: 1:13:57

He was like wow, yeah, no, did you see the press that came out the other day about those barracks rooms up there on Anderson Air Force Base? Yes, bro, I was just like you know what. You're not going to find that on Naval Baseball. No, we might have some soldiers with some moldy boots in their damn closet because they can't clean their crap. Right, we ain't gonna have no crap like that. Ain't nobody gonna do none of our barracks looking like that. So, uh, looking back at guam, because we were there for covid, right, right, what do you take away from the covid experience there in guam? Because I will tell you me, it was arguably one of my favorite operations I've ever been a part of in the military. Right, because it was so unique, it was so innovative. We had to really be creative. It was frustrating, it was emotional, it was exciting, it was all that Right. How was it for you up there on the hill in that conversation?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:15:02

it was for me in the conversations um with the admiral. It was um looking at the, the bigger picture, and talking about where we're going to get the money, especially when the g um, the yeah, the who pulled in there, the g no, what's your tr? When the tr pulled in, we were talking aboutDub. No, what's your TR? When the TR pulled in, we were talking about how we're going to house these people and stuff. So I was in those meetings at that level.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:15:27

But at the same time, I was able to give updates on what you were doing down at Naval Base 1, which let me tell you that you were absolutely phenomenal If it hadn't been for you. I know you and Captain Grimes work well together, but I'm telling you, if it hadn't been for you and the things that you did for those sailors you know on the TR and you know, of course, the base sailors and stuff like that, you were absolutely phenomenal and I put that out at every meeting. I was like well, cmc Wise is doing this.

Gary Wise: 1:16:08

He's going to do that. I was like he's not in his office right now and the airman was like well, where is he at?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:16:10

I said he's down at the TR handling business and he was like I knew it. I knew it. I was like he was like so you're going to go down there with us? I was like no, I was like I'm not going to go down there and step on his toes because he's the one that's running the show. And I'm telling you, my hat was off to you because you were phenomenal with that. You took care of that entire aircraft. They had their own CMC that didn't have a say in the world about what was going on with the COVID stuff, covid relief on the island. It was all you and you were their savior down there.

Gary Wise: 1:16:41

I'm telling you, Dude, you did it. I appreciate that, sis. I'll tell you it was a hell of an experience. I appreciate you answering the phone. I'll call you up freaking out. What are we doing? It was so chaotic, but I look back on it and that whole island, you know, because we, I remember, right before all that happened, we were trying to do lunches to get people together, trying to figure out ways to build connections, and that was all we needed it for, because when it all went sideways on us, we had to figure out how, as a team, we were going to best support these shipmates, these, these sailors who had no control, right, they were afraid too. They thought they was everyone thought everyone was going to die.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:17:28

We did. It's like, if I look at you, I'm going to get COVID and die.

Gary Wise: 1:17:35

It was chaos, but you know it was great. The worst part of my time on guam, honestly, was after the covid thing was done, right, like after changing command. After captain grimes left, that new admiral went up there. Oh, that was yeah. Yeah, I heard that was another reason I'm gonna go. A lot of job papers.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:17:57

I'm like I ain't playing with y'all man, y'all not I mean because you come in and you change something that's already working. You and Kevin Grimes know what to do in those situations. Just like Adam Manoni was saying, let them do it. I mean they'll let us know if they need any help. Don't step on people's toes that are doing the job.

Gary Wise: 1:18:23

And y'all had it a lot. You and cap grimes and you specifically, in my eyes, did it. Yeah, you know, what's funny about that is and me and cap grimes we became. We're really good friends now, but when I first got there people were so afraid of that man, it was a fight. We would walk down the hall and I remember the first thing he yelled at me. I never went back and after a while he came looking for me and I was like, hey, sir, I'm not gonna go back there. He yelled at me. I never went back. After a while he came looking for me. I was like, hey, sir, I'm not going to go back there and get yelled at too many times. We're going to be back there yelling at each other. I'm like, I'm not like that. The other thing you see before me was very calm.

Gary Wise: 1:18:50

He was taller. You're taller, you can afford to be calm when you're that tall. Bro, I'm not that tall, I'm not I'll break something, right and so. But we had to build a relationship and it really went through fire for COVID, right, like it really did. And then I felt like, truth be told, after he had left, there were so many people that had an axe to grind that they couldn't do nothing to him, that they just came for me.

Gary Wise: 1:19:15

That's how it felt, oh, my god, that's how it felt. I mean, my last year in the Navy, lisa, I was under investigation like the whole damn year, right, yes, because them freaking dudes up on the hill, anyway, when people, when it feel like people want to try to do something to you, right, you know? And they just kept, they just kept it going and going and going. I was already retired anyway, I already dropped papers, but I would call up the guy that relieved you. Be like, how long does investigations go bro? Like, let me know, right, let me know. And then it's that's why Dan Field contacted me not too long ago. Dan Field's over at 7th Fleet. Right now I'm about to retire. He was like Gary, you need to do a podcast about how it is when they turn their back on you and try to grind you up and chew you out. And I'm like, you know, I'm sure I'll do my talk. I won't, it's my turn to talk. But ultimately I'm blessed, my family's good right, and I'm for you, lisa, where you was my angel. And this is why I always threw down for you, because people, everyone got opinions right.

Gary Wise: 1:20:24

But when me and Erica were in Hawaii once upon a time and we were going through a cancer scare and not everybody knows this about me right, I was Seventh Fleet staff. I got pulled off a ship early. Who's Whitman? You go into Seventh Fleet? All this crap, fitzgerald McCain? You go into 7th Fleet all this crap, fitzgerald McCain. Blah, blah, blah. I'm there doing great things, loving the job, learning how to do it all. I'm not loving the politics of it, I'm not going to lie, but I was enjoying being in the middle of it.

Gary Wise: 1:20:53

But my wife was going through something and I didn't know what it was. And so then Erica gets a bad blood work. Her why? Her blood was all messed up. The hospital wasn't helping her. They had sent her home, right, they didn't even. They didn't even catch it. One of our friends caught the blood problem as they checked their blood work. So I went to my boss and they said I could fly home from Korea to Japan and make sure my wife could get some medical care. So we get all that going and I'm dealing with Navy medicine, trying to get all that figured out.

Gary Wise: 1:21:24

The day they find the mass on my body's wife, my mom, dies. Oh, it was like bam bam. So I fly back to the States, bury my mom four days, fly back to Japan, medevac my wife to Hawaii to get this mass out of her body, because we don't know if it's cancer or not cancer. We just know she got a mass in her body and they can't get to it except through surgery. Right, and the day I'm telling you, they get the mass out and I get notified by my job. They're like hey, mass chief, you've been gone already for a couple of months. I'm working my cell phone, I'm working, I'm working.

Gary Wise: 1:22:05

But they picked a new fleet Mass Chief who didn't want me to be his staff CMC. That's the real right, let's be honest. The chief in the mess was letting me know what was up, right, he didn't want me, he wanted somebody else because he didn't like my energy or whatever. Ok and so. But I'm like look, if my wife ain't got cancer, I need to bring her home so she can heal from this surgery. And you're telling me I got to get orders. What, how does that work, bro? Like, if she's got cancer, ok, I got to get orders I already worked it out with Izzy for us to go to Florida to fight cancer. That's what we're going to do. But if she don't got cancer, I need to take her home so she can heal up. Well, master Chief, we would still like you to go and get orders and go somewhere else.

Gary Wise: 1:22:55

Now Izzy was like the detail was like they can't do that, gary, they can't do that. I was like the detail was like they can't do that, gary, they can't do that. I was like, bro, I don't want to go back, I'm going to choke that man. My wife never cried until you told her we got to move, bro, this woman was an ombudsman, she was everything FRG. Now she needs the Navy to hold her down. And because some people play in CMC politics, all of a, all my family got to move and so I've been. I've been working with jim honey because he was my essay and he's packed fleet at the time.

Gary Wise: 1:23:27

Yeah, he's knowing everything on my end plus now he's getting from their end as well, but they don't. It doesn't line up right. And so I remember, um, I'm dealing with all this. We're in the waiting room to go back to get the cancer prognosis right. They're going to tell us did it have cancer or was it benign? My wife has been healing after surgery and I'm trying to figure it out.

Gary Wise: 1:23:55

And right then I checked the weekly and Naval Base Guam was the number one on the weekly for a hot field. And my wife is Puerto Rican, grew up in New York and she always wanted to go to Guam, right, because she felt like it would be a similar experience to living in Puerto Rico, which it is like the Spanish, and all that Very similar experience. And so I told her I was like you're not gonna believe this. Um, naval base guam just popped up as like a hot bill for like july august. She was like, hey, if we could make that work, if that could come through, like maybe all this would be for something. So I hit up jim like jim, bro, what about naval base guam? He's like, well, let me, let me, let me, I can do. But you know, lisa and you and I were connected already on social media. I messaged you and I told you what was going on and you was like Gary, I would love to have you and Erica here. And that was If it hadn't have been for you and Jim, because Izzy wasn't playing that Izzy wanted me to go to IG.

Gary Wise: 1:25:03

Right, he wanted me to go to IG, like truth be told, because I should have probably right, because they shouldn't have been doing that to my wife, right? But I don't want to be that guy, right? Same thing as I probably should have gone to IG for them having me on an investigation for a year. Bro, who does that to somebody right? Investigation for a year, bro, who does that to somebody? Right? I would have been furious if they'd done that to any of my sailors. Yeah, absolutely. You don't put someone under that level of emotional stress for a year. If you want to do something, do something, bro, do something. Do it now. When they ain't got nothing, that's all they're going to feel. Keep drawing it out until they try to find something that they want, they'd stop. Anyway, it don't matter here or there, but you and Jim got us to Guam, literally.

Gary Wise: 1:25:52

We flew back from Hawaii to Yokosuka. I packed my household goods up, and two weeks later I was on Guam. My wife was still recovering from surgery, can barely walk, and I'm in the damn G jet. I'm in the van. I'm in that van Driving around. They'll be like what the hell are we doing? Right, right, yeah. What's so funny is when we're doing the whole COVID thing. I'm now in the meetings on Naval Baseball. I'm looking to all of them through the camera, looking to all of them through the camera. All my teams are hitting me up. Gary man, oh my God, you're the best person to be there right now. They got the best God has amen. I thank you so much, though, for taking care of my family. When the Navy was not doing right by us, you took care of us.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:26:41

Yeah, all Jim did. You know Gary, I was like I do. I said I've been talking to Gary. He was like, so what do you think about Navy Baseball? I said I want it. I said can he get those orders? He was like, say less. I guess he contacted Izzy and you had those on.

Gary Wise: 1:27:00

I did. He contacted me and said, hey, make sure you pack a tool belt. Well, you know what? Next time I saw Jim it was the worst, showing him an Aquilino around Guam. And Jim, he was like it looks like Theodore Roosevelt got the next CMC. Huh, and I was like no, they don't. I mean the old me. The old me would have been like hell yeah. But I was already learning after everything that I saw at Seven Fleet how that whole thing went. I was like, all right, so what you really looking for is someone that's going to do what you ever need. You need them to do that moment. But I got a wife and I got kids and that ain't going to make me work. Then, yeah, and then you know, just, it just worked out. So I remember when you got the southwest region job, that felt like it came out of nowhere well, you know, it's a story behind that too.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:27:54

I interviewed for the um, the norfolk region job. Well, I interviewed for three of them Japan first, then the Norfolk job and then the Hawaii job. I didn't get either one of those. I didn't get the Japan job because that Admiral I can't remember his name he said that it was me and I can't remember Names are slipping my head. But Mick Pond even said that if Lisa or this guy didn't get the job, then who the heck else? Because we spent the most time in Japan. That animal said he didn't like the new system of them sending him packages to anybody.

Gary Wise: 1:28:29

I remember that yeah. So he came and pushed me back. It was you and Kaz Bowski, and he didn't pick either one of y'all.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:28:34

Exactly Me and Mike. And so he pushed back to the point where they was like no, we're going to send you some more packages if you got to choose. So then I interviewed for the Norfolk job and I can't remember the force master's name, but he was wanting to, you know, get another job and retire. So the armor was like he's here, he's coming down from the force, so I'm going to go with him. He was like but it was not an easy decision, master Chief, and I was cool with that.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:29:02

At least he said you know what it was Then I interviewed for the Hawaii job I had the Hawaii job.

Gary Wise: 1:29:10

Come to find out the.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:29:11

Master Chief that got the job told me this when he was in DC. He said, yeah, the Admiral was ready to hire you for the job. Then that CMC that I would have been relieving told him to hire him because if he didn't hire him he was going to have to get out of Naples. Lisa will find another job.

Gary Wise: 1:29:31

I was like what? Why is that Lisa's problem? Why is that Lisa's problem? Can't get Naples, can't get Pearl Harbor.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:29:38

Yeah, because I'm telling you, I rocked that interview Me and that guy was laughing. He was like wait a minute, have you heard this one? We had that chemistry right.

Gary Wise: 1:29:47

Yeah.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:29:47

Then Southwest comes up and I'm like the one person that I've- been trying to avoid my entire career. I was like, well, yeah, Because I wanted to get out of Guam and then retire in the States.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:29:59

So I was like okay, I'll come to Southwest. But she retired about seven months later. You know her and I. We got along. You know I like her style of thinking and stuff. A lot of people didn't like her. And then we got Realmer Barnett in and it just skyrocketed from there. That dude is a nut. He's out in Hawaii now.

Gary Wise: 1:30:19

He's the best. That's good. I'm glad to hear you got a good one. You know the boss is so important when you're the CMC.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:30:25

It is yes, yes, yes and right behind.

Gary Wise: 1:30:27

That's the XO. You know, I had some really good ones and I had some tough ones, you know.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:30:34

Yeah yeah who you working for. You got to mesh with them because now your life will be a living nightmare. And then I decided to retire because in the CNIC realm, with the region job, there was only one more step for me and that would have been CNIC.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:30:53

And I kind of got shot in the back of the head with that too, because that particular person said there was only one person that was qualified out of all of the CMCs of the region CMCs. He said that only one person met the qualifications and this guy had had a region. I was on my second region and this guy had had a region for a year. He did an installation for a year and had a region for a year but he was more qualified than an installation CMC and second tour region CMC.

Gary Wise: 1:31:26

That's why I don't like that new system they got. At the end of the day, it should be between the person hiring you and you Ain't one of them, other people signing your eval or the ones that are going to defend you when you need to be defended.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:31:42

Let me sit my stuff in and let that animal say okay, let me interview her so I can see if I can work with her or no. You know, she don't have what I'm looking for. Let them decide that. But no, my fate was decided by somebody else and I was just like I said I can't. It disturbed me. Just like I said I can't, it disturbed me. It disturbed my soul, because I'm like it seemed like all people have been keeping me down, like let me keep myself down, don't you do it. Because people were actually like oh, listen you, let him beat you out for that job. I said dude, I didn't even get an interview.

Gary Wise: 1:32:15

You know what I tell people now that I'm retired. I said I got so tired of people talking about me in rooms that I wasn't in, decided what was good for me and my family that I just went ahead and made the move. Because I don't? I've been there. I've seen it Like. I remember they flew me to Hawaii one time when I was a 7th Fleet to represent at this meeting with all the mass chiefs getting all this information briefed by PAC Fleet right.

Gary Wise: 1:32:40

And Gary Wise asked a question because I'm like we here, we here to talk about some stuff. I'm going to ask a question and my question was about the whole new Navy eval system and certain things, right. And oh, the other question I asked which got everybody pissed off was Admiral Aquilino was talking about how it's warfighter, warfighter, warfighter. I was like, well, that sounds good, sir, but why don't it feel like that on the deck plates? Why does on the deck plates it feel like a whole bunch of other stuff's important and not warfighter readiness, which you now see nowadays they talking about how we lost track of that.

Gary Wise: 1:33:17

And he got mad at me for asking that question and started yelling at me and so then they all pulled me aside afterwards. Like Gary, you got to remember. We don't come here to ask questions, we come here to talk to each other. In between the briefings I was like, bro, this is some stupid stuff, bro, what you talking about? Like y'all got your wives here. Y'all over here, acting like y'all got your wives here. Y'all are reacting like y'all are them Lord of the Rings.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:33:43

I'm a deck player leader, bro, I'm a chief which makes me think about, like I know, the CMC job. I think the CMC job is more important to those junior sailors than it is the big Navy picture Because we're here.

Gary Wise: 1:33:58

They're so worried about giving an admiral a CMC that he don't even talk to. Thank you. They said, what about getting a CMC in the position and you over there doing not a lot? And you got a staff of people that might be five junior enlisted, right, and ultimately the admiral don't want to hear what you got to say because you two chicken shits tell them what you got to say. Right, because you try to say, because you do chicken shit to tell them what you got to say. Right, because you try to go through the jag or you try to go through the flag sack. You try to go, bro. No, I'll tell you what.

Gary Wise: 1:34:28

The other people I don't like, no more, I don't like jags, I don't care for doctors, like I don't care for none of them, no, because they all seem so. And against the sailors right in my opinion. Or empowering sailors to be less than their best in supporting the mission. Everyone's like coddling everybody. Well, not anymore. But now the United States Navy's in deep crap because, unfortunately, we're the worst. Yeah, without a doubt. You see that picture that's making its way around the website right now, that mask sheet. She got pinned. I saw it today.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:35:02

Somebody sent it to me today. I saw it today. I'm like how are you going to leave anybody? You can't. So you're saying I failed the PRT. What are you going to say?

Gary Wise: 1:35:15

How are you going to be able to be frothed if you're out of regulations? Or even you going to be able to be frocked if you're out of regulations, or even you have to get with the way they're doing this new thing. You got to get a job, to go somewhere to get the rate. Come on, bro, what are we doing? I don't care what community you're from, right the optic alone. Right the Navy, the United States Navy, it's just. I do feel like they got it wrong, though, when they fired the CNO, though I don't think that was fair, I think that was some bullshit. I think that was some bullshit because she was a war fighter man, one of my favorite stories from the Navy.

Gary Wise: 1:35:54

I was CMC, I'm born in Ashland and we were struggling to get our man overboard done for our certification Right, and the CO had been taking the deck and driving the ship and cause it was like it's a big deal. So the CO is driving and everyone's like, oh my God, the CO is driving, but we just kept missing the mark Right, cause you got to gun the engines, you got to do a figure eight, you got to land in a certain amount of feet from the dummy and hit the clock right and me and the co and the x or in there talking and we talking. We're like what do you think we should do? And xo is like why don't you let gators try to do it? Like take to drive the ship? And co was like you think. So he's like I think she can do it A day. I'll tell you what that next morning. It's like the ATG was like look, y'all got one more time to do this in the morning or we're leaving. And we had called Gator in the night before.

Gary Wise: 1:36:50

She's a little short thing, got on some big old coveralls. She had JV and Cap was like Gator, you know we really need to get this done. And you could tell she was like stressed. She was like yes, sir, I know. And he was like we would like you to try to drive the ship tomorrow to do it. He was like you think you could do it. And she was like I don't know I could try. And he was like yeah, I think we'll have you try. That used to love being on the bridge. She took the deck. I've never seen anyone take the watch like that before or again. That level of just formality, professionalism. She could barely see over the damn windows. She's so short, she like leaning up man. She drove that damn big-ass boat like she stole that joker and we almost got the first time. Akg was like run that back, run that back. And we got it a second time.

Gary Wise: 1:37:47

And I tell people, you gotta remember, I teach these kids, almost all my leaders are feet, are women. Yeah, almost all of them. Right, because it was the same thing when I was on George Washington, I got there, half my division was women and my first ever did I have a mixed gender division and at first I was a little worried about it. A year later they was running things. They had to step up and let's roll, let's go right.

Gary Wise: 1:38:17

And I tell people I'm like, look, one of my favorite things about the United States Navy is that there is opportunity for everybody, regardless of how tall you are. Right, but. But you got to be qualified and stand on that business and you got to really be good at what you're supposed to be doing and not relying upon those little categories that make you feel special. Right, that ain't going to be it. But if you are great at what you're doing and oh, by the way, then that's better, that's better they fired her.

Gary Wise: 1:38:50

Man. I really felt like they did a disservice because she was a swole, she was a strong admiral. Now the other admiral that got fired she was just doing too much. At the end of the day. I appreciate if you got a feeling, but that's when you got to drop the papers, right. I was to the point in my career where I knew my tongue was about to get me in trouble, so I better just go ahead and retire, right? I better go ahead and go on and do something else and retire and just do whatever else I got to do. So how was your transition to life after the Navy?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:39:22

It was. It was okay. Because I think it was okay because I wasn't trying to look for a job right away. I wanted to figure out where I wanted to be and settle down and build a home and, you know, get my son situated Like now I am absolutely bored out of my mind of not working. So I got a mentor from ACP American Corporate Partners that help military and stuff and building on some things. But it hasn't been bad at all.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:39:50

I kind of enjoyed it, but I've been busy, you know, with getting my house built and different things like that.

Gary Wise: 1:39:55

So yeah, I will tell you I do the high school ROTC thing. It is so much fun. Yeah, everything I loved about being a chief without all the drama yeah, we got drama, don't we got drama. We got you girl. Walk in, just crime. All right, you got drama.

Gary Wise: 1:40:17

Yeah, it's not like it's so authentic because I tell I tell people as I talk to that are in the military like you know, the sailors that I used to deal with they would annoy me because they got paychecks, you got benefits, you got a barracks. These kids are going home to some tough circumstances, right, yep, right, they're really and they're hungry for opportunity and to do good and I just, yeah, but if you ever think about looking for a job, I'll tell you, look into this program. If you, if you're looking for something to think about, because people ask me, why do I do it ain't for the money? Yeah, right, it's more like it's my ministry. More than anything, I get the chance to feed into all these kids. Then they pull my cup up and now I'm doing all this stuff. I got so much energy and so much optimism that I can't help but be innovative. Then we get all the same holidays out, that they get off or whatever.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:41:14

Which is the same thing that you probably got into the CMC job for is to take care of people, make sure they advance in rank, do what they need to do, and stuff like that. Is this some of the same?

Gary Wise: 1:41:28

It was. It was that. But for me it was also a change of pace, right, because I've been a DC man at that point for about 17 years. But I had already done the carrier. I didn't want to keep doing the same thing over and over again. I wanted to be able to go back to Japan as a DC Master Chief. I made DC Master Chief in 2013. I went to the CMC program in 2018. To go back to Japan as a Master Chief DC was hard. There was only a few billets.

Gary Wise: 1:41:59

The CM Chiefs were trying to get the jobs because they want to make mass chiefs. I did not want to be a 3MC. I hated 3M, that damn programmer. They need to doze 3M. That's what they need to do. Hey, I'm not. Hey, fucking, doze some projects, bro. It was all those things. Hey, I'm not. Hey, fucking dose with hot checks, bro. That thing sucks. So I just it was all those things. And I wanted to get in the room with the people that were actually making decisions and say the words that I know they needed to hear, and I'll tell you every cheese mess I ever had. They may not like me, but they knew damn well Gary was going to go up there and say what had to get said, exactly Right, and some people just don't want to hear that directly. But you know what? We're supposed to be chiefs.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:42:46

Exactly. I mean, come on, I tell people all the time I don't sugarcoat stuff. They give you diabetes, so no yeah.

Gary Wise: 1:42:55

Walk the words, bro. That's cool, it ain't personal man. But the other thing is, though, like you man, I dealt with some things that sure felt personal, and I just chose for my own personal mental health and well-being that there's a lot of other opportunities in the world. But I got back. I mean, I live in Central Florida and it is beautiful. Yeah, it's just great, right, the people are great, the community is great, the church is great, the school, it's just great. And I so, when I look at all my friends that are still in the service, I just I want them, I want them to know that there is a lot of opportunity after you retire, right? Don't be so, don't be so afraid. But I'll tell you something else If they were changing it now, like how it is now back, then I might have stayed in a little bit longer, because I was just beyond frustrated with trying to deal, with trying to organize all those damn events every month. That was a lot.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:43:54

It was so much and now I realize what my older retired friends were saying. It's like it's so much better on this side. It's good on this side. You know, in a way you're kind of nervous about getting out, because this is all I'm used to, but I can honestly say it is good on this side.

Gary Wise: 1:44:17

It really is, it really is, and it just it comes. I don't even feel like I'm out, though, to be honest, because I mean I still wear a uniform every week. The kids all call me mass chief. I got a whole. It feels very similar. Okay, lisa, as we wrap this thing up, I do a little thing where it's kind of like rapid fire, okay. Okay. All right, here we go. I got to put my glasses on here, okay. Okay, lisa, you're on the ship. Are you eating the pizza or the wings? The wings Okay. Would you rather have birthing cleaners or the worker party? The working party? When it comes to movies, you like De Niro or Pacino? Better, de Niro.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:45:03

Really yeah, okay.

Gary Wise: 1:45:06

All right Throughout your whole career. What was your favorite duty station?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:45:12

Yeah, it says Kitty Hawk.

Gary Wise: 1:45:14

That's right, you said that earlier. Okay, hey, shitty kitty, there you go. All right, you said that earlier. Okay, hey, shitty kitty, there you go. Hey, I'll tell you. So on the GW, I got there right after the Kitty Hawk and GW whole swap thing and the fire and all that. And that's how I got the GW, because I was part of the investigation on the fire. They saw me. And then Red Rover Red Rover, we want DCCYs to come on over. And I went to the George Washington right and you had. It was such a divided ship. Our, my mess fixed that divide. You know, the Kitty Hawk guys left and the Jimmy guys, but all there was was stories about the H left. Stations were so shiny it looked like a museum right on the water. Okay, in your career, what was the best place you ever went on? A Liberty? It looked like a museum right on the water. Okay, in your career, what?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:46:05

was the best place you ever went on a liberty.

Gary Wise: 1:46:09

I would say Australia, where at? In Australia, sydney. Okay, oh yeah, that's hard to beat Australia. I would go live in Australia for a little while, I would Like for a couple months, oh yeah, okay. What was your hardest qualification that you had to earn throughout your career? Was it a watch station? Was it a warfare qual?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:46:33

I would say it was the OOD underway.

Gary Wise: 1:46:35

Where'd you?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:46:35

get that Onboard the Kitty Hawk.

Gary Wise: 1:46:37

No, you did not.

Gary Wise: 1:46:39

Yeah, I did you got an OOD underway like that on the damn Kitty Hawk? No, you did not. Yeah, I did. You got an OD on the damn Kitty Hawk. Mm-hmm, good for you. That's incredible. Now you're just showing off. No, you're doing it. Try hard, that's a do good, that's incredible. You got a leather driving, a steam aircraft carrier Conventional yes, good for you. That's incredible. Okay, oh, I did not know that about you. That's awesome. That would have been a. I would have known that that would have been the chief's initiation Name. One chief on this island that got an OD underwear oh my God, that would have 100% been in there. Island that got an OD under way oh my God, that would have 100% been in there. Okay, would you rather serve? If you had to serve again, would you rather serve overseas or stateside Overseas? Me too. Most of us say that they've been overseas. It's just close to it, right, it just feels like it's simpler Looking at movies.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:47:43

Do you have like a favorite movie series? Favorite movie series? Probably anything Star Trek.

Gary Wise: 1:47:46

I was about to say you better say Star Trek. I was going to say, okay, but is it Next Generation or is it the OG? Star Trek Next Generation For real? That's what I love too. I like that. I used to think Deanna Troi was beautiful. I'm not going to lie, counselor Troi. Hey, my dad used to watch Star Trek. I was a kid. That was my age, right. Yeah, okay, do you?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:48:21

have a top three favorite music groups? Probably not music groups. Okay, no, no, not music groups. Music groups are not the thing I like. New Edition Project Jackson 5, and listen to the Temptations all the time with my mom.

Gary Wise: 1:48:38

I like that Yep, all right. Would you rather be independent or on a team?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:48:44

On a team probably. I like working with people.

Gary Wise: 1:48:48

You know I can count when I look at my jobs. I love the best. I was a part of teams that I felt like everyone was trying to pull their weight Yep, absolutely. One of my biggest frustrations as a CMC was I felt like I was always trying to encourage people to pull their weight. Yep, absolutely One of my biggest frustrations as a CMC was I felt like I was always trying to encourage people to pull their weight. But I got there on multiple occasions. But it never stays. You get there, you do a good job, then somebody will leave and someone else will come in and you got to start all over again. Did you have a personal leadership philosophy or Did you have a personal leadership philosophy or do you have a personal leadership philosophy?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:49:26

I always tell people all the time just lead by example. Don't tell people to do as I say, not as I do.

Gary Wise: 1:49:34

I hear that we got deck plan leadership, institutional technical expertise, professionalism, character, loyalty, active communication, sense of heritage that's still my religion. Right, that's still my thing. If you had to pick one of those to be your favorite, which one would it be?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:49:53

Loyalty.

Gary Wise: 1:49:54

Okay, I like that. I like that. All right. So we talked about independent or as a team. Would you rather lead or follow Lead? But you know what? This is what I tell my cadets. I tell them I've told the sailors this too. My favorite thing about being a leader is when I grow future leaders, when I grow leaders that choose to follow me. That's my favorite, Because you can do it on your own I know you could you choosing to follow me? That's an honor.

Gary Wise: 1:50:26

That's an honor, right? Okay, Lisa, we got any saved rounds or anything you'd like to talk about before we wrap it up today.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:50:34

No, I just think your platform that you do here because I've watched a couple on LinkedIn it's just phenomenal. I love the questions that you do here, because I've watched a couple on LinkedIn it's just phenomenal. I love the questions that you ask and you know how you keep it down to earth and real talk. So that's what it's all about, you don't? You know nobody's trying to be fake or anything and try to. You know, oh, don't be politically correct. You keep it real and I think that's what needs more of these days in you, days in the online community.

Gary Wise: 1:51:03

You know everyone that knows me. Could you imagine if I did anything less than that, though? They'd be like, oh hell, no, Gary.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:51:07

I would have already emailed you like what are you doing?

Gary Wise: 1:51:13

You know who watches this the most is my students, right, and I like for them to see that I'm pretty much the same way with them as I am with my contemporaries, my peers, my shipmates. You know it's funny. When I retired, so many things changed about me. I almost don't even curse, like at all. I didn't. I got tough, I didn't make a conscious decision, I didn't purpose, I just stopped Right. I just I almost. I gave myself permission to no longer be so wound up all the time on certain things and to just relax. But then it's like I like for them to hear the same things that I talk about with you. They'd be like, oh, he says that to us in the class all the time. Yeah, you are correct, you are correct, and those skills that work for a 45, 46, 47-year-old person to be successful will work for an 18, 19, 20, 21-year-old. It's just understanding. Can you maintain the consistency to keep it going Right?

Lisa Tisdale: 1:52:11

Yes, All right.

Gary Wise: 1:52:14

Well, hey, I'm looking forward to seeing whatever you do next. Right, I'm hoping you keep us posted. Yeah, yeah, keep us posted. Hopefully you're getting to something real good. If you need anything, let me know. If you ever need a letter, let me know Me. I'm real good at typing up letters. I got you.

Lisa Tisdale: 1:52:29

Awesome. I appreciate that. If you ever need me for anything, brother, you know how to reach me.

Gary Wise: 1:52:34

Thank you very much because I appreciate you All right, everybody. Thank you for listening to us. We are signing off and I know I was born for this. I know I was born for this. Don't care for the critics my words and my physics are for us and they can't stop. They just don't get it. I think they forget I'm not done till I'm on top. I know I was born for this. I know I was born for this. I know I was born for this. I believe. I believe we can write our story.