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Words from the Wise
Join Words from the Wise with Gary Wise, a retired Navy Command Master Chief, for authentic leadership insights forged in real-world experience. Through engaging discussions and actionable strategies, Gary empowers you to master emotional intelligence, build resilient teams, and unlock your full potential. Tune in for practical advice on delegation, conflict management, and inspiring others, drawn from his over 28 years of service and ongoing leader mentorship headquartered now in Ocala, Florida.
Words from the Wise
Earning Trust Through Ownership
Accountability forms the bedrock of effective leadership, yet many struggle to embrace it fully. In this thought-provoking conversation, Gary and Jeremy explore the complex dynamics of taking ownership in professional environments.
Drawing from their extensive military backgrounds, they dissect why certain individuals resist accountability—whether from fear, incompetence, ethical compromise, or simple avoidance of stress. Rather than simply identifying the problem, they offer practical strategies for cultivating an ownership mindset both in yourself and those you lead.
"You can't lead from the armchair," Jeremy emphasizes, highlighting how the most effective leaders demonstrate accountability through action rather than mere words. This philosophy extends to how organizations should approach mistakes; as Gary shares from his naval experience, creating an environment where people feel safe admitting imperfections ultimately strengthens the entire team.
The discussion takes fascinating turns exploring how opportunity and accountability intertwine. Those willing to take ownership often find themselves presented with increasingly significant challenges that accelerate their growth. As Gary recounts through the story of a sailor who rose through the ranks, sometimes the journey begins with simply expressing a desire for greater responsibility: "The number one thing was do what you just did. Let me know you want more opportunity."
Perhaps most powerfully, they conclude with reflections on resilience and the race of leadership: "It's not always how you start, sometimes it's not even how you finish. Mainly it's about how you ran the race...can you defend the race that you ran?" This perspective reframes accountability not as a burden but as an opportunity to lead with integrity, regardless of outcome.
Subscribe for more insights on leadership, accountability, and personal growth that will transform how you approach challenges in your professional journey.
I know.
Gary Wise :I was born for this. I know I was born for this. Don't care for the critics. My words and life is except for us that they can't stop, they just don't get it.
Gary Wise :I think they forget I'm not done till I'm on top. I know I was born for this. I know I was born for this.
Gary Wise :I believe. I believe we can write a story. Good evening, good morning, half a day and hello world. It's Gary here, wise Leadership Solutions. Word from the Wise podcast. Back from a hiatus, been gone for a couple of weeks, been out doing stuff with the ROTC cadets, but I'm back with Mr Jeremy Moore and we're going to get into some stuff tonight. So, jeremy, how are you doing, brother?
Jeremy Moore:I'm good man. How are you?
Gary Wise :I'm doing good, man. It's good to see your face. It's good to be back in the box, right.
Jeremy Moore:Yeah, man, it's great to be here.
Gary Wise :Yeah, I'm looking forward to some conversation, for sure, all right.
Jeremy Moore:Yeah, your summer's going good it is. It has been busy, a lot of projects and stuff, but hey, that's how it is. We're just doing some innovation here in the house New kitchen, new hallway, new everything. It was a lot.
Gary Wise :When you say new kitchen, I'm like, okay, what's cool is you're the guy that knows how to do all that stuff, so you can do a lot of that yourself. I'd be hiring out for all that work.
Jeremy Moore:I'm thinking I might be looking for a guy to go up in my roof and and add a vent in for my range, Cause it's a little warm right now.
Gary Wise :And, uh, you know you might want to get some ventilation up in there so you can help let that heat evacuate the room. Right, yeah, all right. So hey, tonight, what beings in the last 5, 10 years towards 2025 in general, that struggle with taking accountability?
Jeremy Moore:But there's certain generations that are willing to take more accountability for things than maybe the younger generations now, though I've seen some really immature you know, 50-, 60-, 70-year-old people versus really mature 20-year-olds too. So, yeah, there's definitely a gap there, though.
Gary Wise :Okay, when you think of the word accountability, do you connect that with maturity?
Jeremy Moore:Really it's more yes, but really it has a lot more to do with the kind of people you've been around I think your circle, even like your training growing up, like if you had parents that taught accountability, versus you know parents that maybe didn't teach accountability as well you can definitely see that it's not really a maturity thing, it's more of an environmental thing.
Gary Wise :Yeah, okay, I don't disagree that there is a connection to experience. Experience is going to teach you that just because you're going to be held accountable doesn't mean it's the end of the world. Right, and when you see a lot of times with immature people and I will I will connect it to maturity, because I believe it's a sign of immaturity when you're unwilling or you're afraid to to let it be known that something either happened or you did something or whatever, because you're afraid of the consequence that may follow from that right. Right, and that's unfortunate and to your point. I've seen full-grown adults that struggled with taking accountability, or I've even seen, especially when we were in the service I've seen it in the high school that I teach at now people do not want to take on opportunities because they're afraid they may not get it across the finish line and then be held accountable.
Jeremy Moore:Sure, I mean, you know that whole thing you kind of alluded to about not wanting to face the consequences. You know that's a learned behavior, though that's something that you've, you know haven't learned. It's a learned behavior. Though that's something that you've, you know, haven't learned. It's a sign that you haven't learned over time.
Jeremy Moore:So, yeah, maturity plays a lot into it. The people around you and how well they're willing to take, you know, control of their lives and to take responsibility and accountability for the things they do, kind of rubs off on people. So you foster an environment within your home as a father that teaches a certain level of accountability. And you know it's also a lot to do with the leadership. You know you can have that one guy who comes in and he just like throws a gauntlet at the very first person. He's like I'm going to make an example of this person. And then people you know the reaction to that is people don't want to be as accountable because they're afraid they're going to get, you know, hemmed up where. You know. If you're, if you have an open and honest environment, your command is going to be like hey look, I trust that you just messed up and you took accountability for it. Now you can kind of bounce back. That environment fosters that maturity that you're talking about, I think.
Gary Wise :I'm with you, man, I think we're going to get to that. I'm trying to think off the top of my head what are the reasons that somebody does not want accountability? And for me, if I'm just spitballing off the top of my head, thinking what are the reasons somebody doesn't want to take accountability, I'm thinking either. Number one they're afraid, right, so there's a fear thing. Number two they don't know.
Gary Wise :I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, right, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they don't even know what they did was wrong or was incorrect, and so they're not even understanding what's going on. I would say number three they might be ethically or morally compromised, right, which means I got a problem now, because I can't trust you if you're worried about accountability and possibly you're just lazy, right, you're just. You know what was that term we used to accept? Or the more responsibility you accept that in some organizations all that does is give you more work, right, so right, maybe they're playing that game sure, or maybe they're just not sure about themselves or they don't trust ourselves to get involved in the project.
Jeremy Moore:You know, how many times have you given a job to somebody as a what you thought was a benefit hey, this is going to help you make first class, this is going to help you make chief, or this is going to help you get this promotion, or whatever. But they're afraid to take that step because that means now they really have to prove themselves. So that's also that accountability piece that you know. We need people to be the formation, but because not everybody's willing to step out and lead that formation, but you got to have. You got to have people that are also willing to step up and do the right thing and do the work.
Gary Wise :You know, taking it back to our military time, when I used to talk to chief selectees or even first classes because, you know, quite often I'd get the opportunity to sit down with them for mentorship or whatever and they would ask me what was some of the biggest differences between a first class petty officer or what I believed at a chief petty officer? And this is not really a difference, because the ones that were typically ready, they were, they were already operating in this way at first class level. Right, but for me the biggest difference was is once you became a chief petty officer in the navy, you couldn't hide anymore if you had some weak links in your armor, right, because unfortunately it was going to come out. Right, because, yeah, typically as a first class, you got a chief or someone that can cover you. But as a chief, if you're got, if you got to get that top cover all the time from the chief or the senior chief, um, it's going to make you look bad, right, yeah, and there was a difference there, okay, I remember on the ship and the biggest, even what didn't matter if I was a cmc, when I was a dc man, same problem, and this was people did not want to qualify maintenance man.
Gary Wise :They did not want to qualify basic maintenance man. And it wasn't because they were afraid of doing the freaking maintenance, right, they were not afraid of doing the maintenance, they were afraid of the spot checks. They were not afraid of doing the maintenance, they were afraid of the spot checks Right, they were afraid of not doing the maintenance all the way right by the book. Because, I'll be honest with you, a lot of those maintenance cards are like reading a technical manual. Yeah, I mean the watertight door on a ship. You put some chalk around it, you close the door, you open it up. If the chalk line goes all the way around the door, good right, that's all insert cares about. But if you get the watertight door pms card or the plan maintenance system card, I think it's like 13 pages, bro, like.
Gary Wise :So I will tell you that the sailors were afraid because if you failed a spot check, whether it was during a 3M inspection or with a khaki, like a chief or an officer, you might get a penalty for that. And that was the number one fear I remember telling my captain one time was the CMC like sir, nobody's going to want to do 3M? And look, I can hear the people that are listening to the sound of my voice. Now it ain't that complicated. You better do it right. Dottie, dottie, dottie.
Gary Wise :I will tell you, as a guy who did maintenance most of my career, high-level maintenance it is. It is that hard right? It really is. You cannot do the HFF, the AQUIS, film-forming foam, daily on an aircraft carrier the right way. I hand to God. I promise you no one's doing it right. I promise you Right. And so I remember going to the sailors and telling them we need you to do the maintenance to the best of your ability, do it by the book, do it right, and then trust us enough to let us know up front what you couldn't do the right way, so that we can at least know about it ahead of time. And then there's no problem.
Gary Wise :Right, and there's no problem. So we identified some ways. People may not want to take accountability, or there could even be the perception that people don't want to take accountability, because I've had times where I almost assumed people didn't want the opportunity because they didn't want to take accountability. Because I've had times where I almost assumed people didn't want the opportunity because they didn't want to be held accountable, and then they would change their mind on me. But no, no, I want that opportunity.
Jeremy Moore:Um, how right no, no, I was just agreeing with you okay.
Gary Wise :So how do we, as leaders, or how do we as people that are mentoring, hopefully, leaders and management out there in the community, how do we help them to coach up or train up or to hopefully inspire the people on their team to not just be afraid of accountability, because even when we say, oh, you don't want to be accountable, that sounds almost like it's aggressive right. How do we get them to want to take ownership?
Jeremy Moore:Well, the very first thing is you can't be the leader that leaves from your armchair and says, hey, go do this, and then not be willing to do it yourself. So that's you know nine-tenths of it like, oh, jeremy's willing to get out there and and get his hands dirty and and do that. Well, let me go in there and help because you know that's the right thing to do. Or you know whether you've got that sense of why is he doing that when I should be doing it. Let me go help him, kind of thing. Um, so you gotta, you gotta want to do it.
Jeremy Moore:You know the guy who hides from his qualification, or the guy that doesn't really know the job that his people do, those are, you know it's hard to get somebody else involved if you're not willing to get involved. So, one, you got to do it first. You got to do it. Get it done, whether it's a qualification, right in the door. Don't wait. Oh, I've got nine more months to get it, kind of thing.
Jeremy Moore:And once the once you get it, you know and you're learning what everybody else is doing that's how you inspire people is to get in there with them and and you know you don't have to to be somebody's best friend. You don't have to try to. You know, hang out with the people you're trying to inspire. You don't have to do it. You just have to be willing to show them, one, that you're willing to do it and two, that you're competent in the fact that you're able to do it, and then that will help kind of dispel that.
Jeremy Moore:Well, why should I get it? Now, you do have those people that are very much so why should I get it? Kind of people, and you know that's just where you have to hold them accountable to. For you know getting whatever it is that they're trying to accomplish or whatever the end goal is, you know, getting them to do the maintenance, or getting them to be comfortable doing the maintenance, or you know that's to do the maintenance, or getting them to be comfortable doing the maintenance, or you know that's you just got to get in there. You can't lead from the arm chair agreed.
Gary Wise :I think that for me, what I I put all this back to maintenance, because throughout my my experience as an adult, that was probably one of the largest challenges when it came to taking ownership was maintenance, because for sailors on ships that's a big part of what we would do.
Gary Wise :Um, and, by the way, it wasn't as cut and dry as like ethical, legal, moral things, right, because you know if something's illegal or unethical or immoral. But with maintenance there was almost this like I know it works right, I know it can get the job done and I can't do all this card. And so what I would do is I how I learned how complicated it really was what? I would go out with my sailors and try to do it, and I would. I would do that, especially when they would come to get me and ask me how to do something. I would stop what I'm doing and say you know, let's go figure this out together, because I don't really know the answer off top my head either. But let's go trace the system out or let's go look for the valve or whatever it could be, because it's a big ship. Right, it was a big ship, and none of us, I think, are going to memorize everything all the time.
Jeremy Moore:No, even the smallest ship is still a big ship when you think about it.
Gary Wise :I mean yeah, I heard once from a very smart man that you should never memorize anything that you can look up. Very true, yeah, because you might memorize something that could change. Yeah, like, if you you need to be up to date with the references and know, what you really need to know is where to go to find the answer.
Jeremy Moore:Right, right, exactly, that's what you know who to go to, not who to go to where to go yeah, god bless the difference, because if you know the who to go to.
Gary Wise :You're just going to them because they know where to go yeah, and distracting them from what they're supposed to be doing, right right, yeah you know yeah, I was gonna say you know, god bless the people that go find the answers on their own and then come back and tell you that's awesome.
Jeremy Moore:yeah, I mean, that was the very first thing I learned. You know, one of my chiefs, uh, was not the kind of guy to give you an answer. He was. It didn't matter what it was, he made you look it up, it didn't matter what it was. And then you go back and be like, so did you look it up? And you look it up and be like, yeah, it's on page, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and this is what it says. And then you would talk about it. But you knew where, you know now he was teaching me to go and look for it. And I still talk to him today, you know, and and he's still like that now, even now that he's retired and doing his thing.
Gary Wise :Well, I'm the same way with my kids, right, with my sons, if we're playing a video game or something like that. We're playing a video game or something like that. We're stuck on a hard level and we're trying to figure it out. Brother, you can Google it just as much as I can Google it. You've got access to a cell phone.
Jeremy Moore:I think that's a skill that you know when we were growing up. That was a skill that you taught, not because you needed to teach it to, just as a general skill book, because that's how life was like. Hey, I got a book report to do, let me go get the M from the encyclopedia and sit down, you know? And, hey dad, what does this mean? And I don't know. Go look into dictionaries. You'd go look it up, you know. And, and you, it wasn't as easy as pulling out your phone and Googling. So we had to learn like, hey, I want to go call my boyfriend or my girlfriend or whatever, and you'd have to go look up the number in the phone book. And you know, we don't have that skill because it's so easy to just Google something now. And Google is what it is. You know whether it's Dr google or whether it's just. You know the worst thing for somebody. I already looked it up, I already know.
Gary Wise :Yeah, so it's both ends of it I think that, when it comes to trying to find out an answer for something, tenacity is going to be the way to get there, and you've got to want to find the answer. Even. I like even, getting it to the point where they're trying to prove something to me. Right, I'm going to prove to Master Chief, or to dad, or to Gary, or whatever. It is Good bro, take that energy, keep it for life.
Jeremy Moore:As long as it's positive, you know using your powers for good.
Gary Wise :Yeah, I love you dude, but not always am I going to be the one to answer your pain, but not always am I going to be the one to answer your pain. And I think the other part of that is and this is this is kind of do where I waffle a little bit on them coming to get me is if they don't know and they try to find the answer and they're struggling, I do want them to come get me and ask for my help. Just, I don't always want to be the first resource, right? I want them to try, authentically try and tell me what you did, and then we'll get into it, because you know I want you to. That's resilience, right? Yeah, that's resilience.
Jeremy Moore:The resilience is figuring out how to keep getting up and keep going after it until you find the answer or the resolution or whatever it is um I mean even now with my new job, like in the civilian life, like I still, when somebody asked me a question like, hey, how many hours do I accumulate for my pto time, I'm like, hold on, and I just send them the file and let them go through and read so they have that tool that they can save to their desktop or to their phone or whatever. And now they can go back and reference that tool and maybe you know I'm looking at it as I'm giving them the tool. But then there's also a next time they won't have to stop me or ask somebody else. Now they they have it and they can look it up.
Gary Wise :You ever seen the person that always wants to be the fountain of wisdom for everything and not share the information?
Jeremy Moore:yes, I have a friend of mine. Actually he he's not the same now because he now he's command master chief and and but way back in the day, when we were third classes, he told me he was like, hey, look, you know, he was training me to take over his job and he's like, for three years I've held this job and I purposefully made it so hard that nobody else would really be able to do it, when really it's just simply this, and he was one of those people. He liked to hold all that wealth and, you know, would be the guy that everybody would come to the rescue instead of making everybody good around him. But then he, he humbled himself as he grew up and became a father and then a chief, and then a leader and then a CMC, you know it was.
Gary Wise :He did change a lot, but yeah, I knew that guy and those people you got to be careful, because they typically think very highly of themselves. Yeah right, that's number one, that's, that's. That's, that's the number one thing. They're poodles in my experience, right, which means you piss them off and they're going to start barking and scratching and just going crazy. Right, because they think they're so exceptional and so special to the organization and they forget that we're all expendable, right?
Jeremy Moore:yes any.
Gary Wise :Any one of us breaks a leg and guess what you're out, but the next person's up, right, it's just how it goes and you're just making it harder on us when we're not sharing the information because you want to always be the special person that gets called on right and then.
Gary Wise :But then number two, it's like it's an insecurity of theirs that they're afraid they don't. They don't. What I, what I hear when I hear somebody that's trying to save all of the information for themselves, is they don't trust the organization all the way quite yet and they want um, they want everyone to respect them so much that they control their position. Right, and when I see that, when I hear that, I immediately start neutralizing them and putting them in positions to stop being that person, because my concern is behind closed doors. They're possibly not always doing the best job. Advocating for the total command right, they're typically just tooting their own horn about how they're so awesome, possibly not always doing the best job. Advocating for the total command right or for the total team, they're typically just tooting their own horn about how they're so awesome and and that's not, that's probably not the right kind of leadership, right, you know?
Jeremy Moore:those are the guys that are setting up a kingdom and they're like bringing in their hoard of gold and and then, you know, making it so that it's. It's more and more necessary every day to have to approach them to get the information you need.
Gary Wise :Yeah, you know, I learned this from one of the XOs I served with and when he first said it it made so much sense to me. He said, mass Chief, we all win if we don't care who gets the credit. And God, I remember thinking like that's exactly how I felt as a selectee, that's how I wanted it to feel in my chief's mess, and then I lost that during my years as a senior chief because it was so damn cutthroat. Like it was so cutthroat as a senior chief and looking back at my time, so as a master chief, I went after making my mess feel that way again and by neutralizing the freaking pockets of wisdom and sharing the information and blowing people up and being like brother, we all win if we don't care. It's a credit, bro. Like stop, stop. Like share, share the ball. Good to go.
Gary Wise :So when we're talking about ownership and accountability, I believe the things we were talking about would work well for somebody who actually authentically wanted to be successful. Right, what do you do with the person who, let's say, is being lazy, is being that malingerer? What do you do with that person?
Jeremy Moore:what do you do with that person? Well, I guess there's two trains of thought there, and it depends on where your job's at. There are those that will be like we've got to cut the cancer out now, and then there are those that you're like, all right, you can't do this with everybody, but I have seen this work several times where you just give them some responsibility and watch them thrive, like, force them into a leadership position, whether it was, you know, hey, man, you're going to be the lpo, or you know just something a little like, hey, you're going to be in charge of medical records, you know. But you give them just that little bit of power and a little bit of responsibility, and sometimes they're they're like, hey, I got it. And then you see somebody go from, uh, just just being to to you know, leading. You ever heard somebody say like, yeah, um, I've been in the Navy for 20 years, but I've been a sailor for 13.
Gary Wise :Yeah, what does that mean?
Jeremy Moore:You know, I've said that's that time where you wake up, that maturity and you're like all right.
Gary Wise :Yep.
Gary Wise :So yeah, I've said almost identical to that statement, bro, I was. I was an engineer for the majority of my career, right. And then it became a failure when I went through the chief's initiation process, because that was where I really realized that there was so much more to this organization than just being one-sided, focused only on my rate, my job, my little piece of the pie. And then I aggressively went after trying to get people to see both sides of that coin, because in our mission and vision guiding principles in the Navy anyway, I still leverage them to this day. But it was institutional and technical expertise, right. The idea was you had to be a little bit of both. Now, fun fact, that's not just a Navy thing, right.
Gary Wise :I met a guy the other day. He's a master gunnery sergeant, retired in the United States Marine Corps right. Now I know a lot of Marines I serve with the Marine Corps a whole bunch through my time in the Navy and this guy was a master gunnery sergeant who's also doing ROTC. He's an instructor, right. We're at the leadership leadership camp together and so he and I are meeting each other and he doesn't know who I am, I don't know who he is. We're literally just saying hello and I'm like hey, I'm gary, nice to meet you. I forgot what his first name was. And he said I'm a master gunnery sergeant.
Gary Wise :I was like, okay, nice to meet you, master guns, you know. He's like you know what that means? Right, it means I'm not the sergeant majors b, you know, I'm not the sergeant major punk, I get to do it. And I'm just chuckling, right, I'm just chuckling to myself because it's the exact same thing as a sailor, like like a top side, telling me, hey, gary, I don't care what supplies got to deal with this engineering, right? And? And so I know the sergeant major. And I told him, like the guy said, I appreciate you, master guns, just so you know the sergeant major. And I told him I get the guy. I said I appreciate you, master Guns, just so you know I'm a command master chief. Oh, I like nothing against that. I hear where you're coming from.
Gary Wise :I was a master chief for three years before I went to CMC. But at that level we've all got to be executive professional enough to recognize that we all need to be involved. Executive professional enough to recognize that we all need to be involved. But the other thing that reminds me of is not everyone wants to be accountable for certain things in the world. So I was actually watching that video today and there was a retired sergeant major who did a youtube video and he was talking about how he was counseling a master guns. Because the master guns was speaking about legal issues and he was like, like master guns, stay in your lane, you don't do legal, you do technical, I do legal. I'm a Sergeant major and I was just thinking to myself like I I'm. I'm more interested in why we're having the conversation period. What's what's really going on? You know that's my lane, that's your lane, but that's it's in a lot of different organizations, right?
Gary Wise :It is kind of figured out what the lanes are. I like where you came back and you said number one, I'm going to either cut the cancer out, which you know. I would like to think before we get to that point. We've given this person plenty of opportunities.
Gary Wise :I remember one time I had a sailor get brought to me by their chief and the sailor had been on the ship not even six months. The chief brings him to me because the chief was like Mass Chief, I'm just done. I'm done with this young person. I don't know what to do with them. I've been there. I say just bring him, let me talk to him. The chief brings the person up, sailor sits down. All right, look man, I know you did not join the navy, I know you didn't go to boot camp. Fly all the way to freaking japan. Get on this ship just to freaking, just to suck at what you're supposed to be doing here. Yeah, right, he's looking at me like what the hell like can you talk about? This is me. I'm just telling it like I've been there, bro, like, what the hell Like can you talk to me? I'm like, bro, this is me. I'm just telling it Like I've been there, bro, like I hated the Navy so bad my first year in the Navy.
Gary Wise :It took some time for me to figure it out. I was like but if you keep giving chief the hard time, a couple of things are going to tell Chief right now. I'm telling him right now you even look left. I want him to document that in a counseling ship. I want him to put that documentation down and as soon as we get three of those, I'm going to take you to the captain and we're going to get you into some trouble and we're going to take some money. We're going to ground you to the ship and we're going to make your life real painful.
Gary Wise :And he's looking at me. I was like because up until now they've just been talking to you. You know how we do. A lot of times we just talk to people. I said but I'm not talking to you, I'm telling you that this is what I'm going to tell him to do, because it's my intention to get you home as fast as freaking possible if you don't fix this. And the guy's looking like what? The command master chief is telling me this. And I said but here's the thing. I believe that by the time we get through this process of making your life a living hell over the next four to five months, to send you home with no GI Bill or whatever. It could be right. I'm not going to get into the politics of it, but whatever, I'm sending you home much earlier than you thought you anticipated.
Gary Wise :Yeah, I said uh, I got a feeling you're gonna like us by then and you're gonna want to stick around longer because you'll have gotten a little bit more experience, a little bit more maturity. And, oh, by the way, you're gonna get tired of watching all your friends go on liberty and go back to their barracks room and go back to all these other locations and you don't get these perks, these privileges, because you can't act right. Because you're paid to do a job, you're an employee. At the end of the day, you're an employee, we're paying you to do a job, and if you don't do your job, then I've got different levers that I can pull, and that's what I'm going to start doing immediately. And the heck are you here and what can I do to make your life better, bro?
Gary Wise :yeah and and the kid told me he says you know, mass chief, I don't want to always be in trouble. This isn't the job I thought I was gonna do, this wasn't what how I was gonna go. And then we hear all that and I reset the, I reset the bass. I said, you know, brother, I hear you. And the reality is, this is why you, we reframed it all, we got them back on track, and sometimes it would work and sometimes it doesn't.
Jeremy Moore:Yeah.
Gary Wise :Right. But before I cut the before, I know I'm a staunch believer. When it's time to fire somebody, you fire them quick, right, yeah. But. But you know I'm also a believer in the people that you have are the best you're going to ever get to backfill all the fires, right.
Gary Wise :So I always believed, especially when I was in the service, is that before I fired somebody, I had to already know how I was going to give them a path to recover and to be able to pick up another opportunity. Right, I mean, I've even fired chiefs, bro, like I've removed chiefs from their divisional responsibilities with my co and then laterally assigned them to other jobs in the organization and gave them the opportunity to recover, because you have to do some things. You got to do, but you got to figure it. So I think that's that's something I would always give recommendations to people on is, before you just fire them, try to figure out ways to recover them or let them go, and then, on the reverse, try giving them the opportunity and giving them. You ever found people that were afraid to take on the ownership of the responsibility because they really weren't properly trained.
Jeremy Moore:I don't know if it was a training thing, but it was definitely a competence thing and a confidence thing, okay.
Gary Wise :So when I heard you say that, uh, because I I believe there's two sides to training. There's the trainer and the trainee, right? Right, the trainer could be given some quality training and if the trainee is not trying to incorporate it and listen to it and learn it, that's their fault, right?
Gary Wise :right I got a phone call one time I was in norfolk and some of my guys were on the ship and they got this in trouble because they had let some foreign nationals into one of the repair lockers when they're not supposed to let them do that because they're sensitive materials, right. Yeah, so when you're on the aircraft carrier, if you want, and you're overseas, if you wanted to let a foreign national without the appropriate level of security clearance into a certain space, we had to sanitize the space, right, and and there's a process for all that, and every year before the yard periods, they would train the whole crew. The whole crew would get this training and guess what? People are asleep in the training. No one's paying attention, everyone's just acting like it doesn't matter, right?
Gary Wise :So then I transfer off the ship, I go to you, I go to my next duty station and it's literally like a year and a half, two years later I get an email that says they had a significant incident on board the ship I used to be a part of. Several of my former first class petty officers were in trouble for allowing this to happen and they wanted me to write a letter saying as to how this could have gone wrong and why I thought that they should be not in trouble. Right, and they're reaching out to me because I was the former subject matter expert on the ship and I guess they thought that my, my, my name and my messaging was going to matter. And because they remembered that when I was on the ship, I would, I would fight for them and advocate for them and not probably, probably would have stopped all this for it to start, but I also would have never let this happen.
Gary Wise :Right, this would have never happened on my wife and I get the email and I wrote them back. I said look, I have no problem writing a character statement on saying that these guys are are good humans and that they're. I think they're awesome young people and I'm sad to see them in trouble. But there's just no way in god's green earth am I gonna say they never got this training because I gave them this training before I left. But you have a responsibility to keep your ears on and listen to the freaking training dude, sure.
Jeremy Moore:Absolutely.
Gary Wise :And you can be held accountable, and so I agree. I agree there could be a person's afraid to take ownership because they they maybe are not competent or they don't feel competent enough, and part of that could be because of their own lack of really trying. Let's, let's, let's call it a spade a spade, and if you're paid to do something, anything, and that's part of your job description, I think that that you should be held accountable for that Right. That should be a mark.
Jeremy Moore:What about people that are ethically immoral?
Gary Wise :Those are the people that are going to cause problems. How would you find?
Jeremy Moore:that I have seen very few people redeem themselves from something like that. I mean.
Gary Wise :I've never seen somebody in your experience that did not want accountability. They were just denying it all the way, even though you knew they were guilty. And they knew they were guilty, you ever seen that before.
Jeremy Moore:Oh, all the time. Like that is the epitome of everybody going to njp that's trying to just stick with their story. You know that was I, I swear she.
Jeremy Moore:You know I fell on top of her and and you know, all the different stories that come out of it, that seem but and that's just really if somebody has got a missing fuse or they got a hot fuse somewhere, just because their motherboard isn't set quite right and they don't have that good moral compass. There's very few people that redeem themselves and the sooner they show their colors, the sooner you need to learn to react to it. Now, it doesn't mean they're a bad person. They might, you know, just see things different.
Jeremy Moore:I mean, there are lots of people in the world that think that it's okay to have more than one wife. You know there's, you know an environment where what we might see as bad, you know, is not really that bad and whatever it is. But then we have that hard line like we know it's not good to kill somebody, we know it's not good to be mean to somebody. We know it's, you know, not good to steal something. And those are the ones when you see that fundamental issue. It's not going to fix itself easy. It's definitely going to take years and years and years for somebody to fix themselves.
Gary Wise :You know, I think along those lines and I agree with you. We all have different codes of values or things that we really abide by. But for me, if a person, if the person told me I'm just not telling you the truth because I don't trust you, I could deal with that Right, like I get that bro, like as if now, if you are a person that you were supposed to trust me and you're still doing me dirty, now that's a problem, right. And unfortunately, and I think to your point, god know, I see it with kids. I mean, when I was a teenager, I wasn't always honest with my mom and dad and I loved them.
Gary Wise :Yeah, right I loved them but I was, I was, I was immature, I was conflicted, I was trying to get away with something, I was whatever right, but with that were you like, you know, whatever it was that you're being dishonest about, your parents were like hey, don't do that.
Jeremy Moore:And you were like you know, whatever it was that you're being dishonest about, your parents were like hey, don't do that. And you were like you know what I'm never doing? I mean very few. That takes. It takes maturity to, you know, unless you just for some reason didn't know that whatever you were doing was 100 wrong. Then you found out and you're like oh yeah, like it still took some time. You weren't like the next day like completely different gary, like hey, that's never going to happen again, kind of thing man.
Gary Wise :I remember I was 15 years old and my dad told me basically one time he says you cannot live under my house if you're going to do these things. And I was doing things he didn't like me to do, I moved out that day. I was gone because I did not want to keep lying to him, but I also did not want to do what he was saying to do. Now I will tell you, my son would not be able to walk out of anybody's fricking house, right, bro, you'd be, I'd sit on him. Like you, you are not that grown, right, you are not that grown. I'm not going to let that go. But, on the reverse, I think my relationship is so much different with my sons than mine was with my dad that I would be heartbroken if my sons were lying to me, because I try to be so honest with them about everything from my perspective. Right, and let them know that as long as you're straight up with me and honest, we could probably get through anything. Anything, yeah, right. But if you start lying to me, and I can't trust you, bro, we are about to be locked down city. Right, like you're gonna, you're gonna learn. Right, it can get real slick in your bedroom real quick, right there it could be and because I love them so much. And then I think about, um, I've had, unfortunately, I've been around people and whether it was on our chief's mess, whether and because I love them so much. And then I think about, unfortunately, I've been around people, whether it was in our chief's mess, whether it was in the wardroom, whether it was cadets that are in my program. These are people that I have significant amount of respect for, but that just are willing to take the risk. They're willing to take the risk and they're putting themselves're, just they're putting themselves out there and with that, don't do the crime. If you can't do the time, that's my thing, because once you take the risk and you get caught because the sailors always know, the students always know right, everyone it's going to come out right. Then there's going to come out right. Then there's going to be an accountability thing and for people like you and myself that live in the leadership space, we already know we're in the arena right.
Gary Wise :So I don't whenever I do something, and this is my tier for making my decisions right. Number one, if my wife is going to be okay with it, I'm good, I don't even care really, I'm fine, and if I'm doing something that my wife probably wouldn't support, I'm taking risks. That's a significant risk, right? So is it really worth it? Probably not, right? I probably won't do it.
Gary Wise :If my wife is okay with it and my fellow instructors or my business partners are okay with it, I'll probably take the risk, right, because I'm in alignment with the people, that I respect their opinions and you know what We'll handle the problem when it comes right. If I'm okay with it, my wife's okay with it, my business partners are okay with it and like my cadets are okay with it, okay, I'll probably take the risk because there we go, now it's also it and like my cadets are okay with it, okay, I'll probably take the risk because there we go, now it's also returning. If my cadets are not okay with it but my fellow instructors are good with it or my wife is good with it, we're still gonna do it, bro yeah y'all are gonna figure it out right.
Gary Wise :If, if my wife's okay with it, but my fellow instructors are not, or my business partners are not and my cadets are not, or my my partners are not and my cadets are not, or my my sailors are not, I'm still going to do it. I don't, I really don't care, right, and that's that's kind of my my tier process, because decisions come so fast and so furious. When you're a leader, you've got to be able to know what you're comfortable making decisions on in the moment and what you need to get back to somebody on and need to. You need to research a little bit and kind of figure out where you want to land on this issue. Because, shooting from the hip right which is what we say to people that are just kind of pissing up in signatures or that are just talking about things on the fly that they might have to be accountable for later, that maybe they don't want to stand behind, um, you ever hear people say well, don't quote me on that.
Jeremy Moore:Don't say it.
Gary Wise :Don't say it Right, then don't say it, bro, like, if you're not willing to stand behind your words, then don't say it, because words matter, thoughts matter, especially if you're a leader or somebody that's trying to be a part of an organization that has values, and that's something that I really believe in. And for people that just are choosing to be unethical or immoral, or I'll tell you, like on ship, if you're a thief or a liar, we really did not like you Like once that was done, because now I couldn't trust you in the birthing, I couldn't trust you near my stuff, you know, and your name is mud, right, and that's not where somebody wants to be. Can they atone? Sure, I believe in grace, I believe in redemption, I believe in I love a good comeback story, but you got to own it. You got to admit to where you were jacked up and figure out how you can get right. You know I had a, a.
Jeremy Moore:I had a a chief tell me very early on like it's, it's not what you did really, that put you down, that we're going to judge you on. It's definitely how you get back up. But if you get back up and you do the same thing, then you know yeah you just wasted your opportunity.
Jeremy Moore:But if you mess up but you atone for it, like you fail a PFA, you know, but you drop 50 pounds, become like the fitness leader and you're out there every day like getting people motivated, like, yeah, messed up fixed the problem, and not only did you fix it, but you atone for it and now you're changing that environment, got it. But yeah, you lie to me, especially if you're lying to me to like protect yourself, not like protecting someone else. You're lying to me to protect yourself. We're done.
Gary Wise :Yeah, it's not repentance when you say I'm sorry today that you did the exact same thing wrong tomorrow and then I'm sorry that you do the exact same thing. Yeah, that's not, I'm sorry, I did it. That's I'm sorry today that you did the exact same thing wrong tomorrow, and then I'm sorry that you do the exact same thing.
Jeremy Moore:Yeah, that's not how I'm sorry I did it. That's I'm sorry, I got caught every time yeah. Yeah, okay.
Gary Wise :So we talked about the person that is possibly malingering what we would do for them. We talked about the person that was unethical, immoral. We talked about the people that were, you know, hopefully willing to be receptive and they want to be a part of something. What about the people that are you? Possibly they don't have a good self-confidence, they don't have good self-awareness and they just they're, they're unsure about themselves, and so it's coming across like they don't want to take ownership or they don't want to take accountability, when you know that they could, that they could be ready for that opportunity. Do you think it's just for me? It's a lack of how I take it? Is it's a lack of trust in me as a leader? I'm telling you I need you to do this Trust that I'll have your back as long as I know everything. But how do you reverse that and say somebody that does trust somebody but they don't want to let you down because they're afraid they're going to possibly not meet your expectations? Sure.
Jeremy Moore:I mean one. You got to establish that trust. You got to get that trust. But you know, it's that whole Wayne Gretzky thing you miss every shot, you don't take kind of thing. Like you got to get people to be comfortable with stepping out there, cause I don't know if you I'm sure you've heard somewhere but like you know some like great leaders, you know aren't some, they're not born into it, those are the ones that are. You know it's thrust upon them and they kind of take that mantle and run with it because they're really good at it.
Jeremy Moore:You got to get that muscle memory developed first. So you start with something small like hey, you know, now you've got this responsibility, I need you to just be in charge of making sure everybody clocks in on time this week. I need you to just be in charge of making sure everybody clocks in on time this week. You know something small like that, show them that they can do it and then kind of like that gosh, I don't want to say like that attaboy feeling, but once they get used to like that, go home at the end of the day with that man, I really feel good about what I did today kind of mentality. Then they start to grow and then you see them really excel. But you just got to test them and not proving it to you. Like, hey, I need you to do this so you can show me how good you can do. Like, hey, I need you to do this so you can show you how good you can do.
Gary Wise :Do you think that we, as leaders, or because, look, I will tell you, one of my gifts and this is just something I've, I've sharpened as I got older is I I could smell a leader, like I used to tell people I could smell a chief petty officer from a mile away right, I can just smell it on there, on them? I now I can. I could smell potential right, I can, I can tell very quickly, I believe, if somebody has potential and I want to start giving them opportunities because I want to. Number one, I want to validate, I'm right, but number two, I love when I can help people unlock their potential and they can see that they can do something. So, do you believe that people in our positions that are lining people up with potential and opportunities, that we owe them a pep talk?
Jeremy Moore:I don't think so. No, you don't think so. Mm-hmm.
Gary Wise :For me it's not so much as a pep talk, as it is like a hookup right, Like I'm hooking you up with this opportunity. I'm connecting you with my cousin. I think you'd be a great match for her. I think y'all would get to make beautiful babies. I'm going to give you the secrets behind the scenes.
Jeremy Moore:Right, you know how you do it, like your brother comes back and the duty station, you know.
Gary Wise :so one of my favorite leadership sayings is timing plus preparation equals destiny, right? And it's because I look throughout my life and so many things that have happened that almost were just the timing was just right on certain things. But it wasn't just that the timing was right. It's that when the timing was right I recognized the opportunity was coming into shape and I was able to capitalize on it because I was prepared for the opportunity. And I tell the kids, I tell anybody that I talked to about this topic, it's essentially it wouldn't have.
Gary Wise :I've seen people have good timing but they're not ready for the opportunity, right, and then you might not get that chance again in any near time. So you never know. You got to be working to get ready all the time because you never know when that shot's going to come. And so when I'm lining somebody up with a shot because again, I love to be that guy, I love to line people up with a shot and I'm like, all right, man, this is a good opportunity. Here's how it's a win for the organization. Here's how it's a win for the organization. Here's how it's a win for you, how?
Gary Wise :Here's how it's a win for me, right, like because typically I've got a dog in the fight, right, I've got a dog in the fight somewhere somehow, and I will give them some coaching, some mentorship, some whatever it is, and I'm going to reinforce with them why I think they're the good person for that opportunity and how to do things if they feel like they're getting overwhelmed or they're getting, because I think I owe you number one, why I picked you. I think I owe you number two, how I want you to communicate to me, because typically I'm doing this because you work for me in some way, shape or form, and so I'm going to tell you how I want to be communicated with and or form, and so I'm going to tell you how I want to be communicated with. And then, number three, I'm going to tell you here's my right, left parameters, right and outside of that or inside of those parameters, I don't really care. Like you got it outside of that.
Jeremy Moore:I need to know, right well, I mean there's, yeah, there's. I started this probably 15 years or so ago. But when I get somebody new into my work environment, even now as a civilian, I'm like hey, look, I have that first initial sit down with them. I'm like there's going to be times where I'm going to come to you with an opportunity, you know, because I feel like it might be something you can do. If you don't jump on it, you might not get another chance. I tell them that all the time, like yeah, we always joke, like Navy means never again volunteer yourself, you know, don't jump on. But those opportunities always they're good, they're outside the normal realm, which is why you're coming to them anyway. Because if it was just, I need a supply petty officer, okay, that person doesn't do right, then the next person that can count to 10 can do it.
Gary Wise :Yeah, I had a guy one time ET2. He was an electronics technician, second class petty officer, right, and he promotes to ET1. And he comes to me when he's an ET2, we become friendly and I'm the CMC. He's a second class petty officer and we got him involved in the DCPO program I think it was on the ship or whatever it was, and he was. He was working this program and so he came to me after he made first class petty officer and he was like master chief. There's like four other ET ones on board this ship. I just made ET one.
Gary Wise :I want to be competitive but I don't know how to do it. And without doing the doing the wrong things, what do I do? I said, brother, the number one thing was do what you just did. Let me know you want more opportunity. That's number one. Number two don't fumble the ball when I start throwing them your way. Way, because now you let me know. And and he did not.
Gary Wise :So I remember we lined him up to be the departmental maintenance administrator for his department. He crushed that we were getting ready for zone inspect or for for insurfs. We put him in charge of managing all the zones and getting all the spaces ready for his insert. He crushed that. Our 3mc, our maintenance chief, was struggling so I got him taken out of his department to work just for that guy. He crushed that.
Gary Wise :I saw him go from being, uh, the number four et1 on the ship to making chief petty officer on that ship and I was. He made chief. I got Him to take the test early With a higher with, with their Time and rate waiver, right, he makes chief early. Now he's a senior chief Petty officer, rotating back To shore to shore duty and if he ever watches this I know he's Going to know who I'm talking about. And the thing was it all changed the day he walked into my office and said he wanted an opportunity Right now. If I could tell you how many people in this world have done something, they started the conversation off good, but then when I would give them opportunities, they would either look down their nose at it or they would act like they were too good for it, or they didn't do it.
Jeremy Moore:And, like you just said, when those opportunities come, yeah, you know, you've got to capitalize on them, that's that that whole like hey, you know we want to have a family, but now it's just not a good time. Well, no, there's. Very rarely is there a good time to have a kid. I mean very rarely. But when the time comes, you know it's coming, you're not going to stop it. So you gotta, that's what I tell people Like. You can't plan your life out perfectly. You're not going to have your 2.3 kids and your six deployments and you're going to make chief in 14 years and you're going to make chief in 14 years and you're going to. You know it's not going to line up like that. You got to take an opportunity when it comes. And you see the guys that you know. I've got a friend that he was a senior chief at 11 years, 11 and some change, and I'm like as a corpsman that is like Superman just walked in the room like you don't see that you know and, uh, it's just right place, right time, right opportunity.
Gary Wise :Didn't say no and right, right, mentorship and right recognition of that mentorship, right. And and then you know, I think it's another thing is having faith in those mentors or having faith in the opportunity, because it will get. You know, like I know, the higher you go in any organization, the more the stress will build. The more which is another thing I've seen people that don't always want to either A, take ownership or B take accountability. They don't want that extra amount of stress. They don't want that extra amount of stress.
Gary Wise :And I think culturally, I think generationally, I think the younger generation in particular they have this theory. Hence why that guy is about to become the mayor of freaking New York. Because all these kids just think well, I'll take whatever you give me for free so I can live the life I want to live. And I'm not going to try to push any of the boundaries because I'm not expecting more than the basic. But I just want to have no pressure. I don't want to have to make a bunch of money every year, pay a bunch of bills, right, right, and that sounds good in theory, but it's not realistic. Right, at some point you're going to wake up and you're going to.
Gary Wise :Now I've told this, I've told this people before. I've seen people out there holding the sign on the side of the road and I've just cause I've been, I've been without a place to sleep at night, I've been there. I've climbed into recycling bins cause they were just, they were full of paper and cardboard and warmer than being outside, and not trash bins. Right, so I. But I was just too stubborn to call my mom and dad and eat some crow and go home, but I was just too stubborn to call my mom and dad and eat some crow and go home.
Gary Wise :I could have just called up and got out of that situation. I could have done something about it. Sometimes I think people at some point I mean mental health might be a thing, but I also think they just enjoy the freedom. They enjoy the freedom of that life and I can't fault them for it. If that's what they like, at least they, hey, if that's what you want to do, just don't come complaining to me about your lot, because we've all had opportunities in life and sometimes we don't all make the best choices, right. But I will say that I think the younger generation there isn't a perception that I have anyway that they don't want to have the stress in their day-to-day life. They would much rather have fire, right, fire, financial independence, retire early Right. And so they're going to live on very small houses right, they're gonna. They're gonna make a house out of a connex box and they're gonna. They're gonna live in a trailer and only spend 20 000 a year on housing.
Jeremy Moore:Yeah, right, where our generation it's like I'm gonna get a big house, right right because it will hold all my things, yeah, um man, if I could have gone back when I was 18 and had a tiny I mean, I did have a tiny home, I had a barracks room. But you know, if I had the opportunity, like there's a place not far from here, I chuckle every time I pass it. It's like tiny house living but it's all trailers and it's just like I'm thinking in my mind like I grew up in a trailer park. I know what that is, yeah, but I mean mean now people are aspiring to go back and live in a trailer park.
Gary Wise :So so when my mom moved out here to florida, I we got her set up in a one of the retirement communities, right, and she got out of there before a year was done because she said, honey, I worked my ass off to get out of the trailer park. I'm not going to die, yeah, I mean. But yeah, we get it To a lot of other retirees. They're load shedding, they're getting rid of their stuff and they're going out to the villages, they're getting a little two bedroom condos down there and they're just, they're not worried about it, you know.
Jeremy Moore:Yeah, no, I mean I get it, yeah it, you know. Yeah, no, I mean I get it yeah, that's a stage in life.
Gary Wise :You ever gone to an estate sale? Oh, I love estate sales, my wife does too, bro, she loves yeah I love like.
Jeremy Moore:We have antique furniture all over the house and coins, and you know just different things that you can't just go to Ashley now and buy. You know, the desk I'm sitting at right now is probably like 80 years old, so you can't just go and find stuff like that, you know. So I love estate sales, sorry, go ahead. Go ahead with your story.
Gary Wise :I tell my wife sometimes I'm like I'm walking around through an estate sale waiting to happen. You know I look at all of our stuff. You know I got all this Navy stuff on the walls and all that in my room here and I just I hope when I die my kids or somebody has value with it. But ultimately I enjoyed it for my lifetime, right? Because I mean when it's over.
Jeremy Moore:It's over, right, that's a lot like. Oh, that's a lot, man. You know, I don't expect my kids to like one. Ok, look, so sell my guitars. So you know, I've got a sea chest that I had made for my shadow box. You know like, yep, I got one. What? What is my grandson going to do with that? You know, oh, look at grandpa's old war medals and you know, yeah, but, it's just going to sit in somebody's attic somewhere, if you know and they're not going to have anything to do with it I remember you know again generationally, right?
Gary Wise :uh, I watched my great grandmother pass away and so then my grandmother brings all of her stuff to her house and puts it all in her old garage and nobody can walk in the garage because it's full of boxes of stuff. But again, if you're coming from the Depression era, you feel like you don't want to let anything go, right?
Jeremy Moore:Because you didn't have anything for so long, right, and then, it's hard to come by.
Gary Wise :When my parents passed away, all I wanted, wanted all my family, was like take whatever you want. And I was like I just want pictures, like I just want memories, because I'm getting on an airplane and leaving and flying back to an island in the south pacific. I can't really take a bunch of things and, truth be told, like you, um, I want my, I hope my kids see value in some of these things, but ultimately it's in the state. So wait to happen, right?
Jeremy Moore:Someone's going to walk through and they're going to judge me.
Gary Wise :They're going to go. What the hell are they doing to this house? Yeah, all my Christmas decor. You know I'm going to be pissed. That's what I go looking for is Christmas decor. I'm not even going to lie to you, bro, I love Christmas that's what I go looking for is christmas decor.
Jeremy Moore:I'm not even gonna lie to you, bro. I love I've been known to to get a good christmas village going and you know christmas song I got it I love, I love christmas.
Gary Wise :I do christmas village. Yeah, I just gotta find a place to put it, man. I appreciate the conversation tonight, bro. I think that brother what did you have if you had any saved rounds for anybody who's out there listening, any of the students, anybody that's out there that thinks that they're struggling with taking ownership of their life or of their future, or of their own work, or whatever it is. Do you have any pieces of advice to give to them? As we close this out?
Jeremy Moore:Yeah, you've heard that old adage what's the best way to eat? An elephant one bite at a time, and and you gotta pick which foot you're going to start on and and eat it. Get it over with, get through it, and then you'll develop that muscle memory that first time, and then things start falling into place yep, you gotta to just get going.
Gary Wise :It just takes. It takes one step to start. You know, I ran a marathon once, once. I probably never run another one, but I ran one one time.
Jeremy Moore:Okay.
Gary Wise :And I didn't train for it. Right, me and my buddy were running a little bit here and there and he was a D, he was my DC one. I was a young chief and he tells me that he signed himself up for the rock and roll. Do I want to do it or not? And I was like, bro, what the hell? But I signed up for it, right, and we finished the 26.2 miles together and it was one step at a time, right, like four and a half hours, and we got it done. And what I thought was so inspiring about it was the amount of people that were taking on this marathon. It wasn't just a bunch of Ethiopian dudes that were running it in sub two hours, right, or?
Jeremy Moore:one hour.
Gary Wise :It was all kinds of people and what that showed me was anybody can do anything. The hardest part is the starting and and then I would say the other hard part. Well, there's three parts, and I tell this to my cadets it's not always how you start, sometimes it's not even how you finish. Mainly it's about how you ran the race right and you won that race with integrity and with. Can you defend the race that you ran? And if you could be proud of the race that you ran and you finish what you started. Don't worry about what place you're in, right, don't worry about it, it'll all work itself out in the long run. Right, it will all sort of self out, all right.
Gary Wise :Well, hey, thank you to everybody out there that's listening to us, that's watching us on Words from the Wise or the Behind the anchor stuff, or you know. If you like this kind of content, please subscribe, please hit the like button, share us with your friends. We appreciate it. Uh, we're just looking forward to hopefully helping people out there and hopefully y'all enjoy this content. Thank you very much, mr jeremy moore. I appreciate your time thanks, jerry, appreciate it talk to y'all later.
Gary Wise :Bye, I was born for this, I know I was born for this, don't care for the critics. My words and my physics are for us that they can't stop. They just don't get it, I think they forget.
Jeremy Moore:I'm not done till I'm on top. I know I was born for this. I know I was born for this. I believe know I was born for this.
Gary Wise :I believe, I believe we can write a story.
