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Words from the Wise
Join Words from the Wise with Gary Wise, a retired Navy Command Master Chief, for authentic leadership insights forged in real-world experience. Through engaging discussions and actionable strategies, Gary empowers you to master emotional intelligence, build resilient teams, and unlock your full potential. Tune in for practical advice on delegation, conflict management, and inspiring others, drawn from his over 28 years of service and ongoing leader mentorship headquartered now in Ocala, Florida.
Words from the Wise
Navigating a Naval Career Through Triumph and Challenge
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From working the frigid loading docks to commanding a warship, Captain Steve Wasson's 26-year naval journey showcases the power of persistence and authentic leadership. In this candid conversation, he opens up about his unconventional path through college, his unexpected entry into naval service, and the defining moments that shaped his leadership philosophy.
Wasson shares the raw reality of his early career, including a ship grounding in the Suez Canal just 60 days into his first assignment. Rather than being derailed by this challenge, he demonstrates how facing adversity head-on became the foundation for his future success. His progression from Division Officer to Commanding Officer reveals valuable lessons about leadership, personal growth, and organizational excellence.
What makes this conversation particularly compelling is Wasson's refreshingly honest perspective on leadership. He explains how his philosophy of "instilling in others a willingness and desire to follow you" transformed ship culture and performance. His approach of "paying it forward" with his sailors created an environment where people were intrinsically motivated rather than merely compliant – a lesson applicable far beyond military contexts.
The discussion also provides fascinating insights into naval operations around the world, from Japan to Bahrain to Guam, including Wasson's role coordinating naval assets during operations against Iran. His consistent desire to serve in challenging overseas assignments reveals a character defined by embracing difficulty rather than avoiding it.
As he prepares for retirement and a second career teaching Navy Junior ROTC, Wasson's story reminds us that leadership is fundamentally about relationships and influence rather than position or authority. If you're interested in leadership, military service, or how to navigate career challenges with grace and determination, this conversation offers wisdom that transcends the naval context.
Outro.
Gary Wise :Music. I know I was born for this. I believe. I believe we can write a story. All right, ladies, I want you to suit up. I have my boy here today, my man. I first met this gentleman on board the USS Ashland LSD-48 in Sasebo, Japan. He was my executive officer at the time when I got there. He then went on to fleet up and become the commanding officer on board Ashland LSD-48. I've got no one other than Mr Steve Wasson. Steve, how you doing, brother?
Steve Wasson :Doing absolutely fantastic out here in Northern Virginia. Great to be with you on this Sunday afternoon, looking forward to it. It Great to be with you on this Sunday afternoon, looking forward to it.
Gary Wise :It's going to be fantastic. It is. I'm so grateful you could be here with us today and take a few hours out of your time to talk to the people that listen to the podcast, and, of course, we get the chance to catch up with one another as well, which is awesome, all right, so, brother, brother, let's start off with steve uh. Refresh my memory, because I know you're a big uh oklahoma fan, like big time oklahoma fan. Are you from oklahoma originally, though?
Steve Wasson :yes, originally from ok, oklahoma. The first six years of my young life in Oklahoma parents are from there, grandparents, all extended family still there. Actually just visited some family there last April. But we moved to Sioux Falls, south Dakota. But we moved to Sioux Falls, south Dakota where I pretty much grew up Usually several feet of snow during the wintertime. I was 10 years old before I realized the rest of the country down in California and Florida didn't have snow at Christmastime.
Steve Wasson :So that was quite surprising to me at age 10 when I realized that after we were going to Disney World for Christmas and Christmas Eve and we're getting ready to go to Disney World and I'm like Dad, there's no snow here, what's going on? So that was quite an awakening that, hey, not every place has snow. But yeah, South Dakota moved to Cincinnati for high school Dad's job there, Graduated in Cincinnati. The big thing about that is that was the graduated high school in 91, but 1988 and 1990, the Cincinnati Bengals were doing great and so were the Reds, and the Bengals go to the Super Bowl, play some guy named Joe Montana and Jerry Rice, lose that one, but two years later the Reds win the world series. So to be in a football and baseball town and have a team go to the Superbowl and go to and win the world series while you're there Pretty cool, Pretty cool.
Gary Wise :In the Tampa Bay area as a recruiter when they won the Super Bowl. And then, of course, tampa is currently going by the moniker of Title Town because they've just been collecting a lot of championships and so a lot of. I think the people in this area can relate to that. And then it brings a pride, I think, in the community when they see their professional sports teams do good. And so for you as a high school kid in Cincinnati, growing up South Dakota, now you're in Cincinnati, did you already have ideas for what you wanted to do after high school? Or were you not sure?
Steve Wasson :I was not sure but what I thought I was going to do at that time in high school I was taking I've forgotten a lot of Spanish, but I was taking Spanish. I thought I would do criminal justice in college and do border patrol, actually to be fluent in Spanish. That's as far as I can see. It has nothing to do with the environment that we are in today. It just raised a big thing today. But 1991, I just wanted to be fluent in Spanish. I thought that was the best way to tackle that. Clearly it didn't happen that way. Tackle that clearly. It didn't. Uh didn't happen that way. Um, the the longest story short of that is it took uh five and a half years for me to uh graduate from college, three different universities and four different majors, but I stuck with it and yeah very interesting. So hold on, I want to hit that real quick. Your first college you went to uh, because again you said multiple colleges, but so the first college you went to was that, due to proximity or did you like, have a select school you wanted to go to as a high school graduating senior. And you got to go to the school you wanted to go to. And then what happened there? So both so living in Cincinnati and we had a great youth group program and several students from there would go to Taylor University, which was just northeast of Indianapolis, so just about a two and a half hour drive. It was a small, private Christian school. I know mom really wanted me to to go there. I was kind of indifferent, looked at, uh, back in that day, liberty, where my two kids go now. Uh, certainly not the same school. It was back in 1991 when I was looking at it. But, um, I think it was more proximity and it was a a good school.
Steve Wasson :For the first freshman year, however, I was not the the the best academic student challenged a little bit. So after that freshman year grades were about the same, not a whole lot of improvement. First digit was a two, and so I remember being at a restaurant with my mom and dad and my mom goes to the bathroom, uh, or no, my dad and I uh get up and have a little quick powwow and he's like you know, steve, you know we're we're happy with, with Taylor university and, um, you know, and and just you know, with the way the grades are, you know, here's my thinking is that you know if this school has the degree you really need and you want. We're, we're here in in cincinnati, ohio, we have in-state tuition. Uh, you know, ohio state could be a possibility. And then we're both kind of looking at each other and we're like, well, if ohio state's a possibility, why in the university of oklahoma a possibility? And so we were both sold right then. So we had to go sell it to mom over lunch and of course, little, little teary-eyed, you know, mom thought she was being ganged up on that. Hey, we had decided and going to uh, switching colleges, and going to ou, um, so we convinced her to that we were going that route.
Steve Wasson :And so second year I went to ou and my grandparents were still alive and they were about an hour away so I could see them. And so it was. It was good on both fronts to be student there in the dorms, um, uh, let me just mention this. So I started off math education, um, pre-optometry, business, and then criminal justice, uh, but I'll get into that more.
Steve Wasson :So a year at OU, arrested fraternity, the second semester, and that just wasn't turning out to be the right choice. And so I remember praying real hard for God to get me out of that situation. And lo and behold, about a week later later, corporate headquarters is moving my dad back to South Dakota. So I decided to. My brother will be a freshman that following year. So I've spent Taylor University of freshman year oh you, my second year and then moved kind of home I lived on campus to University of South Dakota and so with the two transfers, losing credits and changing majors a couple of times that's why it took me.
Steve Wasson :I was a December grad but only had three credits that last semester, but maybe five and a half years, but finally graduated. But the hardest part was I had 11 jobs throughout that five years and the toughest was in Oklahoma, I mean sorry, in South Dakota. Um, with my dad being, uh, you know, vice president of the company, I couldn't be a screw up there on the loading dock. So I worked six nights a week on the loading docks, loading trucks in a 32 degree temperature freezer, uh, all summer long, for three summers to put my way and pay it through school. That's incredible, man, like to work that many jobs that consistently throughout your entire collegiate degree or collegiate program path. I think I recognize with your dad that, hey, the first college wasn't working out the way you thought that it was going to, and while he was open to you staying there options, you guys both kind of concurred to like maybe, oh you, but then you, you getting there and you realizing, well, not really what I was hoping it was going to be. You're turning out and then you uh, get another rallying again, getting another opportunity and then going up to school closer to home, but then also working a consistent job along the side. I'm not surprised it took the five years, but you know, I believe that we give too much credit to time when it comes to accomplishment of goals. Right, we've got this arbitrary timeline in our mind that we've got to get it done a certain amount of time and, truthfully, some people can get a bachelor's degree done in three years, two and a half years. Some people get it done in four or five.
Steve Wasson :You know, for me all my degrees, from from associates to bachelors, was four years at a time. So it takes what it takes, but the journey is what matters and it sounds like your journey was very good because you got a lot of touch points, you got a lot of experience, you got the chance to kind of learn some things along the way and I have a feeling it's setting you up strongly for the next phase of life. Right, I just I have a feel. I have a feeling that those, those nuances, those experiences set you up. So here you are now, ending your fifth year of college, ending the fifth year of this phase of life. What makes you decide to consider possibly commissioning as an officer in the United States Armed Forces, let alone in the United States Navy? Well, that's the next step of this story. So that was December of 96, and I didn't come in until February of 99. So what did I do those two and a half years? Moved up there, lived with one cousin, worked with the other, and I got my black belt in taekwondo in two years up there. So I took class five, six days a week taking karate, and that was just a goal that I wanted to do, and without a family, that was much easier to do by yourself. But I was working at a plumbing supply warehouse making a thousand dollars a month, and so that's really where the rubber reaped the road when I got my black belt in november of 98. Hey, you're 26 now, steve a thousand dollars a month, not going to make it for a family.
Steve Wasson :So, uh, what's what's koa too, before I knew the word koa, um, and the military is something I looked at maybe while still in college. That was something my mom had mentioned is in passing. My dad did four years in 63 to 67. He was a CTT back in the day, but that wasn't the reason to join. I mean, I heard a couple of stories and the one time he said he went aboard a ship, it was on Liberty and he was in Bermuda shorts and had a camera and took pictures. So that was his only time on a ship in the Navy, so not a whole lot of sea stories from that right. So he wasn't the motivating factor.
Steve Wasson :Hey, hey, my dad did it, I'm gonna go do it. It was more of hey, I need to get serious with something. And I did like the order and rank structure of karate, and then the order and rank structure of, uh, what the military provides, and then the left and right boundaries. You keep going, going forward and the only person slowing you down is you. So I didn't know that it was going to end up being a full career, like it is now at 26 and a half years. But I thought, well, let me give it the sign up for the first four years and see how this goes and see how this goes. And since then it was really several hiccups on the first one, but I had to realize that I wasn't an engineer. And when I got into combat this guy sees that house and learned the operations I'm like, oh, this is where all the information. I like this and it just shot off from there after the, after the first demo tour. Okay, so was it? Was it hard for you to get into the Navy as an officer? I mean, was it? Was that like, hey, you just found the Navy officer recruiters, that I got a degree, I've got this package, this information, and they just accepted you quickly? Or was it a hard process for you to actually get the commission? Well, I, well, before that I even knew that there were recruiter games and even my dad said, hey, you have a degree, you should be able to talk to an officer recruiter and go in as an officer. And so, knowing that, I walked into the local one and there was probably a second class and uh, talking it up and said, hey, you know, I had a degree, looking to uh join that kind of thing. And he goes hold on. I went my, uh, my, my chief should be here and wanted to talk to me. And then when he got there, took a quick little aptitude test and did well on that, and so they were looking it up and I could tell the chief was really anxious about something. Something in my spidey sense was going up that hey, they're pushing hard for something here. They had a new recruit walk in and he was requesting the mission to come aboard and leave, and that kind of stuff. They were teaching him the ropes because he hadn't shipped out yet, requesting mission to come aboard and leave, and that kind of stuff. They were teaching him the ropes because he hadn't shipped out yet and the discussion just had found a place to stop and so I said thank you for the time left.
Steve Wasson :I'm like that's, is that really how dad said that was going to go down. Something's not right. They want me to enlist. And then they really weren't sure at the end of boot camp how to turn in an officer package and then do officer boot camp. Something just wasn't right. So I go back mention that to my dad and then I go flip through a phone book, back through the yellow pages or whatever it was. Back then you remember those and call the recruiting office and said it pretended to be my dad and said hey, my son just graduated, has degrees. Uh, need a number to an officer recruiter. So they gave me the number to the one. A little bit more in more downtown minnesota, in st paul, um to that maps one, and it was some lieutenant commander that answered the phone and talked with him and he asked me to come on in.
Steve Wasson :And so I went through the process, filling out all the the paperwork and three references, three people that knew you here, all that on the typed up and all that rigmarole, still getting phone calls from the enlisted recruiters. They say yeah, we talked to Lieutenant Commander Parker. He said he wants you to go ahead and enlist on our side so we can get the number for that and then we'll process you over outside of boot camp. I'm like just, you know, thanks, I'm in over here, I've got the paperwork. I just think I'm going to finish right over here. Yeah, yeah. And so looking back at it now, yeah, the enlisted recruiter, they wanted the number for the recruit to go in and even during OCS I saw a couple people that had shifted over from and listed boot camp. Their paperwork went through and then they joined, you know, three weeks into officer boot camp. So I'm like, well, I did it right. I said no, hold on, let me, let me go verify. Yeah and yeah, so did the paperwork. Ocs yeah, how many people have we met though throughout our careers that was like and yeah, so did the paperwork. Ocs yeah, how many people have we met though throughout our careers that was like undesignated and you're like, but you have a degree. They're like yeah, I got an idea out of the ASVAB. How the heck are you undesignated? Oh well, I fell out of this school or I didn't do this thing the right way and look, I was a recruiter once upon a time.
Steve Wasson :I know you were way and look, I was a recruiter once upon a time. I know you were. I tried not to throw too much dirt on their names, but I will tell you. I agree, I get to the. If it was any of my high school students that were serious about going into the officer programs and they had legitimate opportunities like solid packages, getting them to the right person for the correct information and first, in my opinion, is the priority Right and so good on you for having your spine, trust in your gut, right Trust in your instincts. That's not the right time, it's not the right place. You guys are not the decision makers I'm looking for, and having to leverage the perception of a parent who's not the decision makers I'm looking for and having to leverage, uh, the perception of a parent who's not the applicant, so they're not trying to sell the parent right to get to the right person.
Steve Wasson :I think it's sad, but sometimes that's what you have to do, right? I mean, to this day, I I lend my name to people all the time like feel free to tell them, master chief sent. Like, go ahead, because if that's going to help you get through the drama faster, feel free. Just don't use it in vain. Right, and give me a heads up later that you threw my name down, right, no problem. So you get to knife and fork school, because that's where I would imagine you would go first as a newly commissioned officer. Right, you would go to like to OCS knife and fork school. Is that in Pensacola? Two different things. The LDO's got the knife and fork school kind of out of that one. We had nope, it was 13 weeks of straight boot camp. I'm going to say a notch under a Marine enlisted boot camp. I had a buddy of mine that was an enlisted Marine and then was a SWO officer on the same ship after I got there and who had been through both enlisted Marine and then you know a SWO or a Navy officer and he, yep, marines are still enlisted boot camp, still tough. But the OCS was challenging. It was 13 weeks of just PT, sleep deprivation and a weekly test on something multiple choice, just seeing if you can stay awake by gunning and there's Smokey Bears just running roughshod over you and the biggest thing you can do is stay healthy and graduate in your 13 weeks. And some people either quit right away. I can't tell you how many people dor and original people from my 60 starting class, maybe 15, you know, three months later that's why. That's why that's what, from what I can, that my gut tells me they you got this program that's bringing in college educated americans who have already finished their education piece who now want to join the service. We need to find out quickly do they really want to do it when it's going to be really hard later? or are they going to? stop now, and it sounds like they did a good job of identifying who were going to be the weak links right off the bat and getting them out of there. Where was that school at, do you remember? so it was in pensacola, um, and it was there until katrina happened and then, once that it completely wiped that out and so they moved it to newport, rhode island. So it's right across the street from swass up there and then the senior enlisted academy, uh, is right up there where we're okay, as is now okay, and so you go through this 13 week orientation boot camp, if you will. You see the attrition rate of your, of the people that were theoretically your peers, and you're not dropping, you're, you're not quitting. Do you think that was, uh, was it because? Or you think you're the way your parents raised you? Do you think it was the discipline you would learn through the martial arts? Do you think it was just? You were so resolved like this is what I'm going to do and this is a no-fail mission. Or was it a conglomerate of all of those things? Some of all of it, but I just tried to put it in a bigger context that this was not the first OCS class. I'm not the first person to go through this. Thousands of people have gone through it. So there has to be a light on the end of this.
Steve Wasson :And once I realized that they were on, I knew safety was going to be big. I knew like I really wouldn't worry about like taking to the back room and pummeled for some reason. I didn't have that fear, but I knew we would run and do PT. I just like man, would they? Let us catch our breath, get water, stay hydrated, man, that's all it is is staying hydrated and staying healthy. And once you realize that the basic needs water, food and everything else is okay you're just waking up early PTN and maybe because I was 26, they give you the belt buckle with Brasso to shave off or rub off the quartermaster to stand there, and so you don't have a watch. You don't know what time it is, but somehow we were always late for everything and in a hurry and we're like. Well, in my mind I'm thinking if I knew what time it was and what time I had to be there, I'd be there before you got us. There is what I'm thinking. I mean, the only reason we're late on time that's your fault, is what I'm thinking no, no, I think hearing how you reframed the perspective, recognizing that we're not I say this all the time to people like at work right now like look, no one's getting their birthday taken away today. We're not getting shot at, it's not that big of a deal. Everybody will get through whatever the suck is, but it's not crisis, and I feel like that's what you were doing. So, as you were coming out of that 13-week OCS school, did you get to select your first duty station or did they just volunteer? Did they just tell you where you were? I didn't get told. I didn't get told it I it was the last week I was finishing Um, well, I stayed there. I knew I had to do, um, uh, engineering. I had to go through, uh, steam plant engineering there at, at, at SWAS. So it was getting to the tail end of that, and I didn't have a ship yet. And even the CEO of the, the base, as we were going through getting ready to go through graduation for that because I know there's a few of you still waiting on orders, I know, uh, ensign watson, uh, you're out there, we're, we're working with, with purrs on your set of orders. Great, didn't know what set of orders were at that time, so I really wasn't concerned, didn't know where I was going. Yeah, so we were working on it and where did you get your first set of orders to? LPD12 Shreveport, met them on deployment. There was another person in my class going to the same ship and so we were kind of instant mates there. She was an academy grad and knew more of the lingo than I did. I was, you know, I just went through the class and learning the basic dc, dc stuff, like you know, six inch butt thickness and you know rolling on the floor laughing, and you know I had to get to the ship to figure out what all that that meant.
Steve Wasson :Um, but yeah, flew the day before christmas, they call. I thought I was going to be at home for christmas. I get a call yep, your flight leaves on december 24th. You got to be uh, leave out of, uh, rhoda or get to rhode island. So get in the car. I. So I bought a car afterwards, uh, since I knew I had needed car now drove up to Rhode Island. She lived in Pennsylvania so I picked her up along the way because we were going to be on the same flight, headed the same ship and flew into Malta day after Christmas and spent 1999, partying in the New Year for 2000 in Malta. Right, I mean, hey, that's not a bad deal. Didn't know any of the other JOS, so it was me, chaps and her. That was great. Hey, but you're in Malta, right. I mean, you went from being a guy that finishes up five years of college, get your, get your black belt in martial arts and you're in malta, right, as a commissioned officer in the navy. You know, I was kind of, as I was listening to your story, I was thinking to myself like this team kind of sounds like the undesignated of the officer community, right, like I'm an officer but I got the crash course and like navy lingo and now I'm about to go be whatever division officer and they're going to expect me to know all these Navy things and I'm not going to know none of it. I got to fake it till I make it man Right, and here I am in Malta. And when you say Shreveport, is that an Austin class LPD? Yep, austin Austin class in engineering. So DFT steam cycle, draw me the trace of water. Yeah, I did it. I was on USS Ogden LPD-5, so I decommissioned that ship, so I know the platform pretty well. And so you get there and you're an MP division officer, You're main propulsion divo. Worse A-div Fillory. Divo, worse A-Div. I'm fillery the hydraulics, the B&A crane, the small boats, the stern gate, the emergency diesel generators. Look, a-gang is the unsung hero of the engineering department. Let's be honest, right For sure. I did a podcast the other day with a buddy of mine who's an electrician and we were talking about the amount of real estate an electrician has, like on an lha or an lhd right and and I said closely to follow behind or auxiliaries division.
Steve Wasson :That also has a whole bunch of real estate and a whole bunch of stuff to worry about. And then, oh, by the way, whenever their stuff doesn't work, it's like holding up a whole major shipboard evolution. You know the stern? Yeah, what the heck ox. Oh yeah, yeah, the string it's got to go down. You got to go down to aft steering. I mean, I don't know, I can't tell you how many. I mean going to aft steering is one is cool. The first time, doing steering checks every time after that, no, no, that sucks. That sucks, and it's so low down there. And you're a taller person, right? Yeah, no, no, people like me are built for engineering. Right, I'm short, I can turn the wrench. I'm strong enough to turn the wrench and I'm not hitting the hand wheels, right. So you're the Devo, though. So you have an OXO above you, or are you the OXO Me? Guy, that does nothing about engineering. This is the inline spec on the Rota Gritter and got cat-like reflexes over here and you know we're going to turn this and go roundy-roundy and AC and R-Tech here, both there. I just felt like taking a ticket every morning, waiting outside the log room and running to wherever the fire was for the day. That's what it felt like. It just felt like you couldn't get ahead because you're always plugging something that busted, leaked, oh then the hydraulic, all the orange piping somewhere, sometimes that just decided to leak for the day and you're chasing that and then putting more hydraulic fluid in the system. So and I mentioned, like the ballast ballast stations right and the deballasting air compressors yeah, I just sorry, what a whirlwind. Yeah so yeah, I was, I was just, I was just treading water and then, late to the game, getting a swat because we ran aground in February. So I'd been there less than 60 days and we run aground in the Suez Canal, oh no. And so we are towed to Haifa, israel, and we're dry docked for three weeks to get a new shaft and new propeller. The starboard propeller was bent, I mean the shaft was bent, and then three blades on the propeller were curved 90 degrees. So that put a big dark shadow on us for the next six months. We were back, uh, we limped back to norfolk, um, and then in dry dock more there. So so any training for this guy to get pin and qualified, anything just kind of stopped until we got out of that so that ate up half of my devo tour. So then I was in the sprint and trying to get a swope in before I left the ship. Man, what was? I can only imagine what that, what that feeling was like in the wardroom after that casualty, because as a swope, as a ship driver, that's such a big deal to run in and run aground, unfortunately, and I don't know the, I don't know the the behind the scenes as to what happened, but I could imagine For a stupid reason. For a stupid reason. Is that what you said? Yeah, we were making good time through the Suez and the Shreveport had held the record for the shortest time through the Suez. And so the captain, as we were in the great bitter lake waiting for the southbound to go before northbound, weighs, anchor and takes off, um, he wanted to get around two container ships and the egyptian pilot said oh, this is good water. Good water, you can go go around the buoy here. And so we went around the buoy, boom bow of the ship gets up on a sandbars. We're taking in a lot of stuff. The plant stays on.
Steve Wasson :It was about to go down, but they saved the plant. We back up and then that's where we hit ground the second time and that's what bent the shaft and bent the propeller. And so we stay stuck there until tugs take us out and we lock the down-and-out steering to what we think rudders of midships. But we don't. Until we look at it, it's actually seven degrees to port is what they're locked at. But we didn't realize that. So we're getting towed out, we snap lines up with the, the forward tug, and the bow hits the embankment for the third grounding. Um, so it was. We didn't have to do any of that. Wow, what a what so he, so he was relieved. It was ding ding ding ding captain departing, ding ding ding ding captain arriving yeah, damn, and here you are fresh-faced. Ensign was in. Is this normal? Yeah, uh, where's your smoke in? yeah oh man're like yeah, oh man. How long are you? Do you end up on board the Shreveport total time Is that 24 months, 24 months there. So you, you do that first deployment. You come back like you said, you do it. You do a healing yard period. Do you deploy again on board that ship? We do. We go back to the same area through the Suez. So now I'm seeing everything for the second time and getting real familiar with it and leave three months into that deployment because it was on the same two-year calendar uh, lpd 13 as uh. Well, I had orders there as trano, but a month after that the co switched, made me the co and made the guy who was the cic officer the trano. They didn't like him too much so, for whatever reason, the captain saw something there and switched me and him and that's all she wrote. Once I learned messages and operational schedule and took off from there, so same platform. So I got to go to OOD pretty quick Yep. Well, I mean because it was a similar platform, right, like they knew, the exact same platform. So a lot of that translated over, which I think is cool. But you went from engineering to, well, trano, but then to communications as a second tour, divo, right, and then you kind of got into your. How was the leadership of the ship different from the first ship to the second ship? As far as the wardrobe and the officers? Was there a difference significantly, or was it very similar? Significantly different, similar, significantly different. Um. The captain that came in and released was a SWO captain who had previously had Austin LPD-4 as 05 command and Shreveport was an 06 command because it was flag configured. An aviator was in charge of Nashville um and I had two aviator pilots back-to-back on Nashville and just a different climate, different leadership there, but same issues. You know engineering plants and engineering plants, so they just handled it different. But looking back on it with what I know now, yeah, the two wardrooms were distinct and different and a little more fun. Significantly more on Nashville. What do you think people want to get out of that? lab on Ashford Street. Yeah, no, the reason why I asked that question is because that's a great test case analysis of leadership styles. Because that's a great test case analysis of leadership styles when you have two very similar platforms, very similar wardrobe sizes, very similar crew configurations, very similar mission sets, but then you have very different emotions, very different feelings, very different. Just these they're tangible, right, but, like you said, all of the physical problems were very much the same. Engineering is still going to be engineering, ballasting is still going to be right, but the way they would communicate, the way they would listen, the leadership style is significantly different from the aviation community.
Steve Wasson :They're from, like, the surface community, especially in the gator navy, right, because look where we, the Gator fleet and I'm a guy born and raised in that era in that community we are a little bit more roughneck, right we're, we could be a little more direct. And once you get exposure to those different communities, you're like, oh my gosh, it doesn't have to be this way, like people can actually like be nice, like be nice, right? I appreciate that for sure. So there you are, your second shift. You're doing communications officer, you're finishing up what I would imagine is your commission period, do you? Are you still thinking you want to stay navy? Are you thinking about, like you know what, man, this is not what I'm gonna do yeah, the uh. So during the first tour you don't know where that's going. The only thing you can see is I gotta get my swope in um. And when you get to the second one, shore duty starts to come in more focus. But because you've never been on shore duty, it's just a thing yeah, you don't know what that is, you don't know what it's going to be like and what to really expect.
Steve Wasson :And so, um, I knew I was putting on lieutenant and my department, or the fit rep said recommended for department head, so that met the wicket there to be able to go on. And so, uh, a lot of people were doing um, getting their's when they went to shore duty. And so I followed a buddy of mine to ATG and did the 18-12 program, which is 18 months at ATG and then 12 months off just to work on the master's, which is a complete boondoggle. It was about 15 and 15 and didn't wear a uniform for over a year and that was just fantastic. But yeah, that required you to accept orders to department head school and then to fall on wherever that went. So I took it and the school bonus. So you got to take the school bonus that's a good bonus, by the way so you get to go to a flow training group and you're a training liaison officer, atg Norfolk.
Steve Wasson :And I think, having been also an ATG alumni, one of my favorite reasons I loved my time at ATG was I got the chance to go on a bunch of different ships and see a bunch of different ways to get it done Right.
Steve Wasson :Like I got to see what was really happening in the fleet, not just what everyone's always telling me or not. I would always look in the mirror but like I'm just not good enough man, like I feel like we should be doing better, I get to atg and I remember thinking like these ships are not, they suck right. And then you realize no, no, give some grace, it's not easy and there is a realistic perspective that everyone needs to have in order to find success right. And then I think, once the bar was relatively fair, I was a better trainer, I was a better assessor. When I got back to the ship, I was a better leader, because I wasn't striving for this line that was never achieved by anybody right, it was just unrealistic. Does that sound similar to you as you were going through your time as a tlo and getting to see and did you just ride amphibs or were you riding all kinds of ships? we could do it all, except for uh carriers. Okay, that was uh, uh, a different beast, um, but big decks I got to do uh donald cook a couple of uh ddgs and to see how they did everything, um, a little bit higher pucker factor, um, because they're launching missiles. But really, as we were going through and checking off things and hey, dc stuff, combat stuff, they had, um, the same stuff that we did, except the missiles. So cmtq was about really the only extra assessment that they had to do that amphibs didn't, and so it kind of got the hey, it's a little bit more hobnobby here on crude, as in amphibs. So laid back, it's 99 percent the same, except for CMTQ. Yeah, it's the same inspection.
Steve Wasson :We have different amounts of things than others did, but certainly the well, that gave us fits for different things and ballast tanks that crude as doesn't have. But the inspections were the same. And so to be able to see that you can see the process, end result, you had to pass dc and how some people chose to implement that path to get there. Hey, they had, some had a better process than others instead of just, you know, using a square wheel to do things. Hey, some of them, rounded those things off and got going and figured out how to set zebra in the right amount of time throughout the ship. And others, others struggled, and it was just might as well the first time they've been trying to do it, as, yeah, the inspection, so it just, it just did the training and the rehearsal. I mean, you know zebra, know Zebra, here we go, can we set it this time? I mean, you just hit me with a throwback trauma piece Like oh my God, Zebra. And look, I remember when I did ATG and then I went to an aircraft carrier and happened to set Zebra on an aircraft carrier and make that time threshold. Woo, and are there minors, Are there majors? Yeah, what a mess. So, no, no, I can't. I think everybody in the surface Navy can relate, you know cause. We all been there, We've all done that, we all got the cookies that said, we survived, you know for sure. And then where did you go to school for for your master's degree? Were you in Virginia this whole time? Yes, so through the first two tours and then the first shore duty for six years, we're all in in Norfolk and I did it through Troy University, which is, which is Troy State, which is which is, or it was, troy state, now it's troy university. Um and uh, it was in residency at different locations. One I went to fort eustis. I was at, uh like acu2 at little creek, uh, for our class on robin hood road for one of them, so various places throughout the norfolk Tidewater area to do stuff, but it was in residency for those 12 classes. Right, right. Had you at this point? Were you married yet, or had you already met Kim at that point? Yeah, so that's the whole reason. I was slated to go to a frigate out of Everett for a second devo tour, uh, but got engaged and decided I needed to stay in norfolk. So I emailed the detailer and boom voila literally overnight set of orders to lpd 13 after, after, atg, oh no um after um, uh uh, after ATG. No, after Shreveport, nashville. But I had had orders instead of Nashville out to Everett and I canceled those to stay in Norfolk and get married. And here we are, 20 plus years later. It's great, right, and just I'm trying to understand. Okay, so you do your first two ships, you meet Kim. In between all of that, you guys decide you want to spend the rest of your lives together. You want to stay in Virginia, so you get the ATG ride, you get the college ride and now you're going to another LPD after you get your degree. Is that correct? Nope, Frigate then. Then I go to yep out of Mayport as ops. So now we're in the department head section. Okay, so now you're going for your first department head tour to be an operations officer out of the Mayport Florida Mafia Right, that's not a bad gig, right? Yeah, until Sima went away, I had a post-inmate chief that was Mayport Mafia from day one. That was a thing. But yeah, ops, I was certainly nervous being a department head thinking man, can I do this, Can I make it? And again, it was just an extenuation of being the CIC officer. Now I was really in charge of all of it and putting schedules together and I got us Fleet Week in New York. So that was a good feather cap and was happy about that one. And that's the ship where you met a gentleman by the name of Pat. German who was the department head right. Yeah, he came in about halfway through and took over as the chief engineer. We got in trouble the first time we met too. Oh, really what in trouble. The first time we met, too, we were in the CO's cabin. They invited him in to sit on a board and he was sitting next to me on the CO's flip out bed and on he had the little steno pad and I had mine and I saw something that looked like a Sooners 2007,. But you know, the dollar sign, exclamation point, something, something. And I say hey, what is that? And he goes, that's me. I said no, no, that's me. And I write down mine and they're almost identical passwords. They're both some variation of Sooners win 2007. And so we're saying, no, that's me, you're Oklahoma, I'm a Sooner fan, you're a suitor fan and we're just starting.
Steve Wasson :And then the captain guys, um I hate to interrupt the bromance here, but can we continue with the? board.
Steve Wasson :Yeah, and so that the rest was history after that, with me and pat yeah, I think that that's interesting and that will come back around later on in the conversation for sure. So I just wanted to plant that seed there real quick. Uh, so you're there as the first tour department head, your operations officer fleet week in new york. It's a frigate, it's not a gator. Uh, do you guys don't go on like a seven, eight month deployment during that time period? Are you guys more doing like, uh, unit toss and like south america operations? we did cnt counter, counter-narco-terrorism ops so we went through the Panama and Alone and Unafraid and chased ellipses and drug-running boats and actually we did get one bust, I'm going to say 20-something bales of white powder substance that the law enforcement debt we took over and turned it back in when we got into stateside and got the Coast Guard special operations something or other ribbon for that. So that was it. Yeah, but typically the UNITOS or CNT ops is what you're going to do on and typically the unit ops or CNT ops is what you're going to do on, and ours was dedicated to doing CNT ops and were you standing like TAO and stuff like that as well? three section TAO yeah, so how was that? Being back on the ship, not standing watch on the bridge, but standing watch as an apartment head and TAO? How much of a different experience was that for your first two ships? uh, extremely different, because I was used to looking out the window and making the decision where to go, um, and and really, uh, because it wasn't that busy. You're just, you were an elevated cic watch officer a little bit that had a little bit more authority to say something or could, could vouch for the, for the captain in night orders if he wanted to sleep through the night or something. Right, you could, you know, acknowledge something and go on. But, um, you were kind of the person on watch while you know, at night, while the CO was on, and then, uh, we did have radios so we could go attend meetings during the day and, if we were needed, in combat, but usually you're just out there chasing something with nothing but thousands of miles of water in either direction. Um, and uh, uh, yeah, that. So, no, not, not not too busy as as tao doing that, but certainly different than being officer by deck I just think it's. You know my experience that on the ship that I was, I only did one ship well, two ships that I wasn't in the engineering department, but really only one that I count and that was such a different experience for me, being in a completely different role. And then I think about how officers kind of get that every ship, if you will, because you went from engineering to communications and then you got to go be a department head and be a TAO, and I know why they're doing it. I know why they're getting you all these different experience points. I get it. I know why they're getting you all these different experience points. I get it. But I just think to myself like it would be a little more refreshing, right, of course there's a difference in roles and of course you're getting additional levels of leadership, responsibility and accountability, right, because now you've got like on your frigate, you've got this whole operations department worth of people that you got to take care of administratively, operationally, you got to manage watch bills, training plans, all these things. Uh, were you enjoying that part of the job as well as much? Or would?
Steve Wasson :What was your favorite part of being a naval officer at this point in your career, did you? You know yet what you liked the most? Yet Like? Was it leading people? Was it watch standing? Was it critical thinking? Was it At that level, getting up to senior level, eight years in senior lieutenant, a couple more years and then put on 04.
Steve Wasson :Just being trusted to have not only that many divisions, because on a frigate, you know, you had deck division, so I had to take on the boats and mate role there and folks will and fantail and painting and preservation and all of that, and then everything is a step up in the leadership role.
Steve Wasson :So for me, being ops, being able to plan stuff and knowing where things are, um, and how to get there, I enjoyed that part of it at that point probably the most, that hey, I'm, they're relying on me to do this ship schedule and get us to where we're going. And then with all the fit reps, you're certainly kind of in the more admin role at that point because I had the admin officer who worked for me, so I was in touch with the whole admin and fit rep side and award side and processing stuff, processing stuff. So it was really teaching or the laying the groundwork for hey, as you move up in this uh and you increase responsibility, you're going to have more things under your purview and you have to be able to spin all these plates and you can't let anything fall off. So that's what that one was teaching me at that point, and that first one was one I didn't get comfortable with. Hey, hey, what's my role and responsibility here is ops yeah you know, and that kind of that.
Steve Wasson :First 30, 60, 90 days is you're okay the place. I've seen everything. Now we're starting to repeat and this is my first time at department head meetings I got to bring stuff up to say to the captain things that we're working on, things that we're fixing. So, as I'm learning and growing in that role, well then, when I'm not on that spotlight, well then I'm working on deck, working in admin, shuffling this, shuffling this, and so I had a 60-day dry erase calendar that I just kept updating and moving and shifting things to. That was kind of my what's the nearest thing to the boat that needed to be worked on. So it was a good platform for me to learn how to manage all that and be successful at it good and was this frigate? so what around? Was this around 07 08? Was that when? Exactly january 07 to may of 08 so I remember there were decomm and frigates about that time. Did you decommission this boat? no, uh, there were a few around us. Uh, around that were, but, um, ours was not in that window yet. Okay so you get. You get to the point where you're about to get done with your operations officer tour and have you already had, uh, your oldest child yet, or not quite? No kids yet. We did so. Yep, xander, wait, yeah, we. No, we did, we had both. Yeah, we stayed in Rhode Island at department school one extra month so that Brenna could be born. So when we went there in January of 07, yeah, brenna was a month old. Okay, so Brenna was born in Rhode Island, xander was born in Virginia, it sounds like. And then you went to Mayport with both the kids and a busy couple of years there. Did you get a choice for what you wanted to do after department head tour, or did you get volunteer? Why are you laughing? Well, because the list is out and I can see what's on it. I can see the writing on the wall you can't go do ops on a DDG. Because that's a first tour when the only ops left is ops on a cruiser, and because I didn't have any crew desert experience, I knew that wasn't going to happen.
Steve Wasson :So I listed all those because I knew they weren't going to happen. So I listed all those because I knew they weren't going to put me there. And I could see that, uh, there were two trano billets, and one was in san diego and one was in japan, and I knew that I was going to end up on one of those. And, uh, so I put that as number 10, knowing full well, I kind of played the system against in it. Hey, they're going to put me at the place I pick last, to kind of give me a feather cap of where I want to go next after that one. So that's the way I looked at it. Um, so, yeah, that sent us to sasabo, japan, on essex, as trano, which, being a tlo in norfolk, made perfect sense for and excelled at that. To make a long story short, on that, I I got the number one of five ep in 04 department heads and I owned nothing. I had two people tad to me right, yeah, but the training officer is is a strategic position, right, they could be a force multiplier or they could take a whole ship, right? Yeah, that's a true statement. And so before we get there, right, I want to talk real quick about the transition from mayport to japan. Uh, how excited or how anxious or nervous was your family about going to japan with two little ones and moving? Was kim like here for it, like she's super excited? Or is there like a lot of pressure? Like, oh my god, we gotta take how many suitcases to the airport, because that's a. I've made that move a few times as well and I know it's a freaking, it's a mess. Right, there's bags for bags and you gotta get it all to the airport, then get over there and then, once you walk off the plane, it really sets in, like I remember you're boarding the plane. Where did you board the plane? To Japan? Did you board it in California?
Steve Wasson :No, I think we had to leave out of Jackson, or maybe we had to get our way to Norfolk somehow and flew out of Norfolk on on Patriot Express, somehow, I think I just remember going to the airport and I the first flight was that regular flight, then the flight for Japan my first time I get on it and I start thinking there's a lot of Japanese people playing right, because as an american, I had never been in that situation yet where I did not, where I really, I mean, was in a place that was so not american, right? I mean, yeah, I guess. But when I walked off that airplane dorothy, we are not in kansas anymore like I knew, wow, this place is different than anywhere I've ever been in my life and I'm going to live here. Like that's incredible, right. One hundred percent. Walking off the plane in Fukuoka, the first time, yeah, or just switching planes in Narita to get to Fukuoka. Yeah. Yeah, you're just Well, dorothy, we're not in Kansas anymore, right, yeah, you're tired. There's the time change. When you got to Fugue I mean, here you are coming as a lieutenant commander, second tour department head Did you have sponsors that met you at the airport to help you and your family, or did you have to do it all yourself, get all your gear on the bus and just ride the bus down to the base? we, so the ship was out and, if I remember this right, I'd probably have to double check with kim, but our uh, my sponsor was female, so her husband was at home. He came and picked us up and he rented a the white minivan, uh, or cargo van and drove up there and and he picked us up and brought us back and checked us in yeah.
Steve Wasson :So I had like almost two weeks of living in the navy lodge, walking, doing the walk of shame over to the commissary and the exchange, pushing the cart back with water Like, oh that sucks, they don't have a car yet. Yeah, and the Navy Lodge in Sassville is all the way at the end of the basin. Yeah, was all the way at the end of the basin. Yeah, I mean that's why everybody parks their cars for sale, like right there at the Navy Lodge, so you can just catch the newly arrived people like, hey, you want to buy a car, hey, you want to buy, and of course the steering wheel is on the opposing side of the vehicle, so that's another nuance to it. Okay, so how long were you there before you guys got put into housing? Do you remember? Almost right away Out in Haria. Yeah, we, I'm going to say pretty, and maybe we were even out there, well, or maybe I was on the ship. The ship was only gone for a couple more weeks and then came back, but I had to go out and meet it. Check in. I think back in those days, though, base housing was actually a lot more open, because a lot of people were choosing to live out in town, and I remember that's why they changed the rules that made everybody have to live on base, and, and you had to almost fight for the right to live out in town, because there was a period because oha wasn't a lot of money and you got to, you got to pocket the leftover money over your bills, right, and so I remember, uh, when I was on gw 10 to 13 which is about the timeline you probably would have hit um, your ship, essex. Uh, there was that whole everybody. They made. They made everybody come back to the base, essentially, so there might have been a time when you got there, you might have beat that rush and just got right in.
Steve Wasson :Yeah, of course, officers, you're gonna have a higher opportunity to get in the house. Are you guys in a tower or were you in a uh town? Officers, you're gonna have a higher opportunity to get in the house. Are you guys in a tower or were you in a uh townhouse? Do you remember? You remember we? we were in a townhome and the our backyard directly backed up to uh the hario uh ballpark oh, so yeah not the uh, not the exchange and the school side, but the opposite side, our backyard. We could look out and see kids playing and then we could just walk Xander and Brenna across the street and away we went. So your time on board the Essex, that was a great time for you. It sounds like. Like work was going good. Family was in a solid place. I know Sassville is a great place to live, so that sounds like a sweet spot in your career, right there, right 100 awesome.
Steve Wasson :So after that tour, after you have that, after that opportunity, you do such a great job. You got it's a great second tour, department head principal department tour, very high ratings. What, what makes you this? I know you go from there to okinawa. Is that correct? Right, and that's where you go down to be the flag secretary at the staff. Did you want to do that? Did you want to go to okinawa next? we did um more so because of the ship in, and we loved the port visit there and I was like Kim, we've got to find a way to get here. And Kim's the reason that we got orders there. At the CB ball. The girls went stag, the ship was out, but Admiral Landell was there and the CO's wife of the Essex, miss canada or kate kennedy, said hey, let me, uh, introduce you.
Steve Wasson :And so part of admiral landolt spiel is always asking hey, what does your husband do? And he was completely caught off guard with kim's response when he asked her that what does your husband do? And kim's like, well, hopefully he's going to come work for you. Kim was like, well, hopefully he's going to come work for you. Wait, what, who's your husband? He's the utrino on Essex, and he had his aide write that down and so he had to go back and look that up.
Steve Wasson :So then, when we dropped the nomination package that hey, the command or Essex thought it would be a good fit. And the detailer said, yeah, you can certainly do that, we'll put in a nomination package which just means it prints out your bio stuff and sends it up. And now, having been through that, I mean that's easy process. So, yeah, essentially, kim put my name in the hat there and nobody volunteers to go do that in Okinawa, at white beach. Yeah, so, by having somebody that wants to do it and with a recommendation from somebody from Sasebo going there and is recommended for command and the fit reps, it was no brainer and worked out to be fantastic. So, yeah, we hop a four hour flight and or four, no, it's not a four hour flight to Okinawa. But 400 miles, it's 400 miles, it's just about an hour trip to Okinawa. Yeah, so flag's back. Okinawa is the one that's responsible for the ships in Sasebo, and you got the minesweepers, you got the amphibious ships, you got the ACU, and so I think I see the benefit not only in him recognizing that there's a spouse that wants to be a part of my team, which helps tremendously. Right, because the wives, they help keep everything copacetic at home. But number two, I got this you know person coming off a very successful department head tour on board an amphib who speaks amphib fluently and now knows the SASPA waterfront. So that guy, he's going to be on my staff and, yes, he's going to be the person that helps manage my administrative things. But also you're a SWO who can see, hear, say things and have a perspective, right, and I think that's value added all the way across the board, right, I mean, for me, I see all the reasons why that's a quick yes, right. Yeah. And so when you get down to Okinawa, what did you think about being the administrative support, the flag secretary to the admiral, working with the chief of staff, working with the CMC to help make sure that everything, because you essentially are the XO of the staff, but also primarily an administrator to the admiral to make sure all of his correspondence and everything is running well schedule, all that other stuff. Did you enjoy that time stuff? Did you enjoy that time that was. That turned out to be one of the biggest uh administrative uh benefits of all is being working the, the XO portion of that, um, it's really the flag aid took care of the, the care and feeding for the Admiral Um I I helped facilitate some of that or or or cause even, but most of that was done by the aid. But we always made sure when he was in the office he had everything he need. We really took care of all the other staff and all the aid. Causes would report directly to cause, but I could certainly tell them what they needed to do. If so directed, I'm wearing that little Agulet and said hey, boss, needs this from you and you know.
Steve Wasson :So I had that, had the PSs, the YNs and so all the ships that would send a flag letter of comms, navy achievement medals or comms that wanted to be signed by the admiral or chief of staff, because, as you know, some folks can be a little late on those and get in and processed and out. So we were such an admin turnaround process I could have 50 NAMs and comms turned around to in 48 hours. Uh, from our side of the house with the way we implemented our process. So, uh, that kind of we kind of put the note out hey, if you want NAMs and comms signed with you know, by cause here at CTF 76, just send them here to, uh, to admin staff, and we'll get them through. And so it took me probably a couple of months to get them the way that COS liked them.
Steve Wasson :And once I said, hey, here's because they would send them, as you know, as a division for passing a cert or whatever. So the write up was 90 percent the same. And so I said, hey, here's the write ups for the NAMs, here's the write up for the comms. If you're good with these write-ups, the rest of them are going to be this with the names changed. And once he did that, that good, we would run through the rest of the process, send them the electronic copies so they could hold the ceremony and then mail out the hard copies. And so we just had a fast turnaround process because we just jumped on it and streamlined the process. So admin-wise I got a lot and then fit reps for all the fleets and the COs of the 05 and 06 commands all came through me. I had to hand jam them and get them ready for cause and admiral signature. So a lot of prep work to be you know. What would take into command, you know later on is that admin of 18 months of just admin work so did you. As you were wrapping up your trano tour, had you already made up your mind? Were you hopeful that you were going to get screened for command? Were you like was that was it? Were you? Were you that guy that was like oh my god, like I might. I want to be a commanding officer. Or were you not sure if you wanted to take on that level of role later? The question. It was really that the possibility was there. I never questioned am I ready for it to do it? It was always about the wickets Did you have the right wickets to be selected for it? It was about being selected and so really that was my only worry. Did I have the fit reps recommended for command? And so, as Trano, leaving there with number one of five and with the recommendation for command because that's kind of when that came out, is that, hey, hrs now wants you to put it in there from the get-go once you check on board, if it's ever removed, that's the message to the board that they don't want you. So now it's always in there. One of X there, uh, it just does flag sec and across all designators and recommended for command by the, by the Admiral there. So I knew the fit reps were in line. Now it was up to the board. Um, so once I got to shore duty after that, um, you know, I'll tell you that one as we, as we get to that. Yeah, let's go there, man. So you're wrapping up flag. Second okinawa what, and that's? That's not shore duty, it sounds like. So what is shore duty then? dc pentagon tour. I'm not sure, danny. Yeah, so you coming off of the Flagstaff tour, you're in 04, probably waiting to screen for 05, and you get directed to take orders to go to the Pentagon to do what? Stand watch on the watch floor. That's where I was headed for about three days. Once I checked in, they moved me. I moved up uh into n51, uh strategy and policy and I took over uh treaties conventional treaties. Didn't even know that was a thing. No, like watching Grass bro. It makes me think of that part of what was that movie with Billy Bob Thornton. They're going out in space, outer space, to blow up the comet. Bruce Willis is like this is the best math you can do. You're supposed to have people in rooms just thinking of stuff. Yeah, armageddon, I think Armageddon that was a great movie and in my mind. I want to hear that. You guys are in a room thinking about ways to make treaties better. I guess. Really just to sign six-month continuation memorandums of agreement. Okay, so I mean I guess for sure Judy, just to sign six-month continuation memorandums of agreement? Okay, so I mean I guess for shore duty. Then it sounds like it's not an unreasonable shore duty. You just get to learn how to be in the Pentagon and work in those halls. Yes, that was the whole reason of that job is as an O4, you're not a critical cog, you're an action officer. So you are putting um, you have some action items and you're typing away, hand jamming some stuff as they come through Um. But it's kind of a non-retribution. Hey, nobody's expecting anything of you. You're not charged of a program money, anything like that, as a as an 04, but you're learning the ropes who's who, who works for what kind of the different pots of money in the other sections and you're just around the buzz and the churn so that when you go back again that's not the first time you're hearing all of that yeah right, and so that's getting this thing going. Got it and did you like. Living near the BC area, the Arlington, Virginia, the DMV area. So we did during that first stint when we moved back from Japan. We lived on the Maryland side in a place called Bowie, maryland, and I took planes, trains and automobiles to get to the Pentagon. I took planes, trains and automobiles to get to the Pentagon. I would take the MARC train from Bowie State into Union Station to catch the red line. So I'd get off an Amtrak train, go down the escalator, get on the Metro and a couple stops over to on the red, over to the yellow, then down to the Pentagon and then reverse it for daytime. So I did that for two years before we bought the house where we're at now, and if I went to the Pentagon from here it'd be one stop on the blue line, but that didn't happen. And that was a three-year tour, for sure, did he? Two different locations. I had one more year of slough and so, because I had also screened for acquisitions professional um I was able to go to the navy yard after my two years in the pentagon and did one year in acquisitions before heading off to uh uh swaths in the XOCO pipeline. Okay, so you, you did you submit to become an acquisitions professional. You're just. You're selected based on your fit reps. When you go through, they select you for everything that you're optional for and so, yeah, when I screened for that but then you find out you get screened for XOCO fleet up as well While I was at the Pentagon. Yep, okay. Did you have any choice or any? Did you have any inputs as to what boat you might get sent to for XOCO? Oh, I told them exactly and they couldn't believe it. Me too. I never forget when I got selected for CMC. So I'm literally up at Senior Enlisted School, dccm. I get selected for CMC, which is I don't leave for like six months. And I get a phone call and actually I'm in class. They come get me out of class. They say, hey, there's this admiral on the phone, he wants to talk to you. I'm like class, they come get me out of class. It is his Admiral on the phone, he wants to talk to you. I'm like what? That doesn't make sense. I go get on the phone and I was like hey, it's mash wise. And he's like hey, mash, this Admiral suckity, suck, whatever. And I was like hey, sir, he's like mash, I understand, you've been selected for the CMC program and you have Japan background and experience and I've got a DDG leaving for Japan out of Norfolk, where you're currently at, in like three months and I need you to be the master chief that takes us to Japan. And I was like no, no, I appreciate the phone call, sir, but that's not the opportunity for me. I want a gator in Sassam, like he was like really, yeah. I was like yes, I appreciate the phone call.
Steve Wasson :I don't know who put my name in your mouth. I don't know who gave you the entire inside scoop, because I had that job come my way and I said no. I got a phone call the night before the match. The CMC results came out. A CMC called said Gary, you're going to make CMC tomorrow. I need you to come to this aviation squadron in Oceania and do this aviation squadron. And I was like no, I'm going to Sassabones, who would have been right. And so I have those two things happen and I tear both of them down. So once the once the results come out, we're supposed to call the detailer.
Steve Wasson :I call a detailer up and I say hey, man, gary, wise, blah, blah, blah. He's like all right, man, where do you think you're going to go? I said I want to go to a Sassabo, any ship starting with an L. He was like oh my God, I love you. He was like oh my god, I love you so much. I got two. I got ashland, that I got I think it was germantown. Which one would you like? And I was like I don't care, ashland, right, I don't know anything. And so he was like done, done, like you're in there.
Steve Wasson :And then I remember I get off the phone, look it up and the cmc at the time, bronder and I, the CMC on Ashland and I had literally walked off the George Washington together. Right, we walked off the ship together. We had been senior chiefs on GW, we made mass chief on GW together. He walked off the ship and he left and went to ashland. I went to swaths, norfolk to teach damage control, assistant senior list damage, right, but he was the cmc.
Steve Wasson :So I was like, oh done, message him, like hey, steve, dude, I'm coming to be your relief on board ashland. And he's like awesome, that's great, you're gonna love it. And then five minutes later he's like co, awesome, that's great, you're going to love it. And then five minutes later he's like CO knows you too. And I was like he was. He was a department head when I was at ATG and he had been a chief engineer. So I was like, all right, god, this is a good idea. So I guess I share that with you, because when you got your opportunity I bet when you asked them you wanted to go to an amphibious hospital is probably what you were communicating. You know, were to go to an amphibious ass pose. Probably, what you were communicating, you know, were they just like done, like super easy. He was. So the uh. I I kind of saved that because the detailers were coming through, uh, the national capital region were stopping there, and so my detailer was actually coming through, yeah, and so I was able to tell him hey, can you put me down for, uh, an amphib out of sasebo and he was, he was writing something. He stopped, he put it, he looked up because steve, nobody asks for that yeah, um, and then he looks in his little laptop and he goes well, I, I just slated a couple weeks ago this one guy, I'll put you right behind him. He's at pers now. Uh, I know him, he's a good guy, his name's dan, doing uh, but I'll pencil you in for right behind that. And so I knew, two and a half years ahead of time, okay, going to ashland, nice, in in 2012, and didn't get there until, you know, april of uh 15. That's see, I didn't have that until April of 15. See, I didn't have that. I was going to be there like in five months or whatever it was, but I get it. So, when you got to Ashland, because you're leaving the Pentagon, because that's where you go, well, you go from the Pentagon to Swas, norfolk, or Swas, rhode Island, right. For school, from the Pentagon to SWAS Norfolk or SWAS Rhode Island, right the one year at the Navy Yard for acquisitions, and then up to SWAS to the XOCO pipeline. And how long is? that that was September of 14 through April of 15. Okay. Did you enjoy that pipeline? Yeah, um, I no. I mean. Well, yes, there was good information and I knew what it was was for. There was some rigor and rose, but having done it through six months of devo school, obviously the training's different, and then six months for department head school and now six months for xoco.
Steve Wasson :I, I get it, there's some, some redo, but it's it's new stuff, new material and things that have changed and stuff, um, but you're still going to do rules of the road, do the simulators, and I guess the only part that that's frustrating is hey, while you're here, get out, see Newport, it's a fantastic place and I just, no man, I'm the one in there studying for everything, for the exams, and you don't want to have to fail and do a retake, so that doesn't look good. So I was always one of the ones back studying just to make sure I didn't fail anything. So it is good for information. And you're meeting the other guys. I met one other good amphib dude that was going to the Oak Hill guy named Nikia Cooper, at a little creek. So we became good friends, but it was was good, good camaraderie. You need to go, you have to do it, it's just. I get it. I get it. I remember I went to senior enlisted academy. I had to go back up there for CMC school, which was three weeks long, right, and it's just. I felt like they're just making me go to Rhode Island, just to say that. I went there and it wasn't really anything that for me, the networking piece was the most there and it wasn't really anything that for me, the networking piece was the most valuable piece. There wasn't really anything super enlightening out of out of all of it, right, but it just felt like we were having they were they were driving us up there to help make sure that. Go see Rhode Island, right, go see Rhode. Island. Yeah, yeah, okay. So when you get done with all of your officer COXO pipeline stuff and you guys are flying to Japan, how excited are you and the family to be going back to Sassbo. Oh, just excited beyond belief to go back to some place that you really thoroughly enjoyed and loved. Piece of cake to go. We couldn't wait to get on the plane. Get over there okay, and so I. Of course you get there before I get there. So when you first get there and you get off the plane again, do they have people waiting there to pick you up? You're the pxo for a ship. You got a bunch of people supporting, or was it a little bit more austere when you had to kind of figure out how to get to the? no, would you believe? Uh, could have been the same white. Van dan picked us up, okay, awesome. Yeah, he came in, dropped us right off at the, at the navy lodge, okay so he was the. So you're the person you were leaving as exo, who was going to be your ceo, picked you up as your sponsor essentially same white van because, yeah, because you rent the vans, or we rent the vans to drive, they pay for the tolls and all that stuff. We get you down there and I remember you guys lived out in hario at that point, so you guys got back into hario again and it literally the same street, but just on the opposite side. We could open one front door and look across the street to the other front door that we were, you know, years before okay. So what was it like going into turnover of the role of xo on board ashland? How was that? I was nervous yeah, for sure you. Just because you want to do a good job, right, you don't want to jack something up. I wasn't worried about oh yeah, I was just really worried about I didn't want to screw something up, great. So it took a good 30, 60 days before, because everything's new Now. You're not just an apartment, you've got the whole ship stuff coming to you and so, yeah, it probably took 60 days for the new stuff to start flowing down and be repetitive, so that you feel like you can tackle it on it and always try to find a better process of well, why does this have to go through seven different people? Can we get away with doing it with three people signing this and moving on? I mean great thanks. Why am I signing it? Not that I can't or don't want to, but certainly ops should be able to sign for this and then just let me know that it's going on or something like that.
Steve Wasson :So you're just trying to find process improvements of why do we do things the way we do? And some of it is written in stone, written in blood. Somebody potentially lost their life back in the day and that's the way we do things and that's just the way it's going to be. But I always look to try and find efficiencies and I would always go through. I was the guy that would go through the drawers or the file cabinets and you know, just quickly through all of it, how old was that stuff? Was it relevant? And I, I would tell you, almost everywhere I go, 90 of that's gone. Just it's a it's. It's overcome by events, it's past its shelf life. Move on yeah, no, no. I just think what an interesting role to come into right and I say this with respect to the guy that's kind of watching it happen. You're coming in, this super. I mean. I remember when I took over as a CMC for the first time and I was like, oh my God, I'm actually in the seat now, like this is crazy. And then there's you're turning over from the guy who's going to come back in like three months and be your CO, right? So there's that nuance to it. And then there's and you want to do a good job and are you happy with what you're seeing right away, because fresh set of eyes on everything, and someday you might be in command too, and so where is your end goal? All of that's got to be going through your mind as you're trying to catch up to the fire hydrant of things coming your way, because it really is a ship and it really is working every day and there's just a lot happening every day. Right, yeah, how long was your turnover as XO Do? you remember, not more than a week, and then he was up there doing his turnover and boom, we were at it. Oh, so he didn't go on hiatus or whatever it was in between his XO show. He may have gone away for two weeks, I think there was, think he did they went on vacation. Um, because I'm going to say turnover was like I, I got there say april 15th and a month later, may 15th, was change of command. So maybe a a week turnover with with dan, and then he went on two weeks leave, came back and then had a week with uh doug and then um, change of command okay, and so when you look back on your role as your time as xo on board ashland, how was that for you? did you enjoy that tour? Was that something? I mean looking back on your career, I mean, was it as much fun as being the train? Oh, on board the essex, was it? Because next we're going to talk about when you're actually in command right, but it's got to be an interesting part of your career. It is, and I've heard some people say, hey, they they had had that role or hated it. But I, looking back, I loved it. It was a stepping stone. You need to have that to go to CEO. You need to understand that portion of it.
Steve Wasson :I guess the only thing, looking back, realizing how much power and influence you have right from the beginning, right, I just I guess I wasn't sure how much power you wielded as XO to just come in and pew, pew, pew and start shooting and firing right away, right, um, I, just before I fired at something I wanted to, well, am I doing it right first? I guess the most. The one area I think I was most nervous at was NJPs and having people come up through XOI with a full because you get a three day crash course in it and you're just like, well, I do this right, yeah, um, there's no prep work for that, and so that was learning on the fly and then the three years of doing it, um to to get comfortable with it. So I I think that's where I was nervous most with I didn't want to jack something up legally, uh, with somebody's record, their whatever, whatever that that was. I think that's where I didn't want to.
Steve Wasson :The rest of it was process, a little bit of trial and error. You knew where you needed to go and, um, certainly, being DC and 3M that was too big. Wasn't we both learned on that 3M? It was a process and we came through Fantastic. So I wouldn't trade how we came through that to make that better and nobody had to come back and do any rework on us. Yeah Right, because BHR, their operations department, almost failed. I think they gave it to them just so they didn't have to come back. But that was a stain on those guys well like not to tip my own horn or anything, but you had you. You had before gary and after, yeah. Yeah, I mean, because if you took over xo, co or xo in april of uh, what'd you say? 15 yeah I got there in January of 16. Right, so I mean I know that when I got there, how much things changed from just my period of time from when I walked aboard to when I left the ship two years later, like we freaking grew so much. Oh yeah. I mean, we were literally one of the best ships in the Pacific Fleet. I would fight anybody for that. When I walked off Ashland January of 18, I was willing to put us up against anybody pound for pound right, Because we were that good. If there was only an award that said that, the Margie Starrett Award. Yeah, we did, we got that one Right. So, and it was a great time, man I look back on my career and that first 12 months with you as the XO and me as the CMC, that was a lot of freaking fun, man, freaking just running and gunning dude. I was riding high man. It was a blast every day all right yeah, no, it was a good time.
Steve Wasson :so when you were in dc and 3m, I mean, for me those were like my bread and butter, so I was happy to be of service, right like, and it was a big bragging point for the chief's mess, right Like, if we do good on DC and 3M, the chief's mess would be able to say we're doing our jobs really, really well, right.
Steve Wasson :Because, that's all our things right, like DC and 3M as much as I appreciate officers roles in those things I took it to the mess Like this is our job, like we're not going to fail this, like period Right, and they rallied, they rallied, they rallied right. Yeah, you know it's. I got jeff brooks coming up here pretty soon on this and I've been talking to senior, to master chief, now harman, and talk to a few of those guys. Right, get them on here because I will tell you what. I think that we put a clinic on on how to, how to, how to run a good ship.
Steve Wasson :Yeah, I run a good ship and it wasn't that it was a bad ship. It was just in need of a fresh, a fresh energy spike, right, a fresh, fresh set of energy to move up forward. And then, of course, the strategy and, like you said, the strategy for us was uh, no redos, baby, no, no reduce, we're passing everything first time and we're moving forward. And that was it and that worked. So, when you got to the end of your exo tour and you were getting ready to come into your ceo role, did you have any significant like, uh, like priorities or concerns or anything that you wanted to do differently when you got your opportunity to be the commanding officer. Yeah, I did. I knew our personalities were were different. Um, you know, I always did my best to support him, as, as XO, your job is to make the CO look good at the end of every day. Um, and I just knew I was going to do things different than he did. Um, I tend to um pay it forward ahead of time, because when you need something, uh, we are in the military and your people follow orders. But there's a difference when being uh told to do something and asked to do something. And so when you've paid it forward and you got a little equity and buy-in man, people want to jump up and do it with a smile on their face instead of putting their hands in their pockets. Fine, captain told me I got to go do this, I'll just go over here and I'll sleep this room over here. So I wanted to get the most out of everybody. So I just my approach to it was was different.
Steve Wasson :There was a professor at when I was getting my master's. It was a leadership class and there were different quotes from different leaders, but he put his personal one on there said you know, his definition of leadership is getting or instilling a willingness and instilling a. Instilling a willingness and a desire to follow you. Right, I mean to give them a reason. Everybody wants a leader or somebody to look up to that. They want to get behind. And hey, I would go, you know, walk through a wall for that, like head coaches for football programs, right, ooh, yeah, coaches, I'm going to get out there. And so I kind of, with those that I would routinely see, have a little bit of a personal, personal relationship with meaning, know a little bit more about them, um, with that many sailors, and couldn't know everybody's um background.
Steve Wasson :But those that I got to know and you know were some front runners and could pay it forward with, and you know, you could get something out of them when the time came. You know whether that was some bosom mates, first classes, some second classes, somewhere, that, hey, you saw something, you needed something. Oh, hey, sir, right away. And the one there was a.
Steve Wasson :There was a D seaman and about halfway through the CO ride he was so thankful that I had signed his paperwork to get eye surgery done, to get LASIK done, Because I'd had it done, and he was so appreciative of the fact that I let him go do that. He doubled his efforts to just do his job 10 times better and made sure he came by and let me know what he was doing and again he appreciated me signing the paperwork for letting him go get his eye surgery done, work for letting him go get his eye surgery done, and so that was kind of my behind the scenes is paying it forward with everybody by being a motivator and just showing a genuine interest and a care factor. And when the time came and you needed to do something, the motivation and the raw factor was there and they would get after it and do it with with a smile on their face instead of with their hands in their pocket. Going well f this no, no, I agree, man, and I think that, uh, a couple things. So I I do have dan doing lined up to be on the show, right. So he's gonna be on here in the next week or two, which I'm looking forward to that, because he was my first ceo, an actual CMC, right. And then Pat I'm talking to Pat German, who was your XO when you were CEO and I'm trying to line up all you guys because, again, you're always gonna hold a special place in your master's heart, right, and you're not just you're more than that, you guys. It's a brotherhood that people don't understand when you're in the triad trying to survive the day and and and there were some stressful times. I mean, you guys forgot me so good on my 20th navy anniversary, because I thought we were gonna get yelled at for something right yeah that's the level of stress we were under back then.
Steve Wasson :I easily thought we were about to get yelled at as senior leaders in our Navy. I was fully prepared to go to war with somebody and it was a surprise birthday for me and for my Navy birthday. You don't understand the level of pressure you can be under in those moments, right, and so I think it's important to recognize all those things.
Steve Wasson :But then, back when you were in command, I remember we did that six month deployment where we went down to australia and all that, yeah, and uh, that was a great time, right, and we you supported me and making sure that every sailor that was having a baby on that deployment made it home to be home for their birth of their baby. Right, and we did that, like I remember making a plan for every sailor who was having a baby that they could go on, leave or they could pull into a port visit. And the only one who wouldn't do it was freaking castro, because he was like I gotta get my calls because I want to make cheap, and I was just like, bro, go home for your baby to get born. And he did it, but you was the commanding officer. So, yeah, and that's that's not common right now.
Steve Wasson :Of course, also, we were off. We operate in the theater, where it's not out of the norm for you. It's not that hard for you to fly back To Japan when you're hitting some of these Countries that are in the same region. It's not like you're flying from Bahrain To Norfolk or Bahrain. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can meet us in the next port or whatever it is, and we worked all those things out right. But I think our crew, I do agree. I agree they really appreciated us, given those levels of support and recognition and trust. Um, and that was on my, when I look back on my career, that that deployment, in particular, that liberty I got to go on with you in australia was probably some of the most fondest liberty I've ever had in my Navy career.
Steve Wasson :Right, because when I was on George Washington I wasn't going on Liberty, I was doing schoolwork on the ship. Right, when I wasn't hanging out with you, I wasn't going on Liberty. Remember that time you and Pat made me leave the chief's mask to go to go on, because I can't leave the ship, I would be on the chief's mask watching Sons of Anarchy, happy Because I just that was how I locked in. But having the CEO, sudan, having the driver, having the freedom, those were some of the perks. And when you were the XL, you were the liberty buddy for the CEO, right that was part of your role, master Chief I was okay not having to have that responsibility.
Steve Wasson :I would be in the Chief's mess, happy minding my own business. Nobody wanted to be my Liberty buddy. I didn't blame them. It's fine. When you were the CEO, I was oftentimes your Liberty buddy because you know Pat would have Michelle coming out or whatever it was. We had some good damn time. Yeah, pick a whistle and 50 lashes buddy, buddy, follow us. Yeah, we had a good time. So, as you're wrapping up your time as ceo on board ashland, did it almost feel surreal that it had happened yeah, it always goes a lot faster than you think, but it was time that was. It was three years in Sasebo, so it was it was time to move on from Sasebo. But yeah, you're, you're not quite ready to give up command Once you, once you've had it, and then you're like this is fantastic yeah, no, no, I agree like it goes by so fast and with you guys doing those 18 month jaunts of xo and then co, because they're such different roles and they're both very, very, like you said, very important but different and I could imagine. I could imagine being the commanding officer and you got me between you and pat. You guys really reap a lot of the awards of all of the hard work, right? Because people listen to the sound of my voice, let me tell you, just because you plant something today doesn't mean it grows and blooms tomorrow. It takes time to develop, right. So that was things you started working on at the beginning of your xo tour with me and you together, that really didn't start blooming until the end of your co tour and into pat's co tour yeah, man, that was a plentiful harvest.
Steve Wasson :Ashland made a lot of freaking good fruit. I mean a lot of good sailors made a lot of freaking good fruit. I mean a lot of good sailors made a lot of good officers. Do you know who contacted me not too long ago? He's a CEO now himself. Dvish Dvish. Dvish, yeah, al Dvish, yeah, yeah, I see pictures of him yeah. He contacted me, yeah yeah, and I remember I used to think he hated me because I was always in their weenies, right, but I think as he went on through his career he recognized the value of what we were bringing to the conversation of the table and I hope he's blessed with good people to help him down. Yeah, man tour, and he's a guy that came in the Navy, as he came from Europe as an immigrant Right yeah, the military is an enlisted man rose up through the ranks and now he's a freaking commanding officer of a Navy warship Right Like, yeah, mr Dervish, he's a freaking boss and I appreciate him for reaching back and saying thank you for things, right. Yeah, no, he's good. I couldn't be more proud of him that you know, as as my first lieutenant um he was, I had to stop him, gary, on the last you know 10 minutes to go, and I have to stop and tell him hey, you stop, you can't start ballasting and I'm not on the bridge. And so I mean he just wanted to get ahead of it and get everything going. So we finally compromised All right, if I'm not up there yet, you can get three feet of water in the well. Just, the craft cannot come alive until I get up there. So I let him get all the prep work down.
Steve Wasson :So we're on course in tracking and I've let him take some ownership to getting to starting ballasting and getting three feet in the well before the craft came alive. And then I would come up there and we would finish ballast on down. You know, get the craft out and then de-ballast and then line up for the uh, aavs. But he was just so motivated by the process of that and how efficient could we do it? Yeah, uh, he's gonna be great at this.
Steve Wasson :So I'm happy for him no, it's awesome. Um, so there you are, into your tour. Uh, looking at the end of command and what are you thinking you're going to do next? Do you have any? Do you have an option? As opposed to her commanding officer post tour 05? How does that work? Um, so now you're a maid guy, right, you? You, when the band plays, you're in a little bit different category, um, so they need to do a couple of different, bit different category. Um, so they need to do a couple different things with you. Um, and I remember telling Kim I just had a gut feeling out of things that were on the on the list to choose from. Uh, I said, what if? What if they send us to Rhode Island as an instructor? And she goes, you think they would do that. And I'm like I'm kind of feeling like that's what they're going to say. And I got an email that they didn't have an amphib instructor up there and badly need one. And so we said, sure, we'll go do that.
Steve Wasson :So, finally, go to Rhode Island and I'm not the one taking the dang exams, I'm giving them so you can actually enjoy Rhode Island, so I can enjoy Rhode Island and have daily life. So, yeah, we leave there with one extra kid. As you know, our youngest was born in Sassavo. So we leave there with a five-month-old to go to Rhode Island. So we leave there with a five-month-old to go to Rhode Island. And so, essentially, for those that are not sure what an instructor at SWOS does think of a top gun instructor like Tom Cruise going back to train aviators. Okay, well, I'm going back to train SWOs that are going on to command and do what I just did. So certainly a big. They call it a high-visibility job for a community job to give back to your community in a post-2017 world, right? yeah, and I say that because that summer we were on our six-month deployment was one of the most tragic summers in navy history in recent years, and we were underway too the whole damn time, right. And so when we had the collisions at sea, when we had the Osprey go off the back of the green Bay, when we have the, the, the cod go down off of the Reagan, like that period of time, that whole summer period, we are operational too. We're out out there and every day we're taking, we're feeling those hits and we're communicating that to our crew like not gonna, not gonna. We, we cannot let that be us. We've got to stay frosty, we've got to stay not complacent. I remember having that edge.
Steve Wasson :And so then I remember when I heard you got the orders to go up to swas, I was thinking I'm sure there's a lot of energy up there to reinforce with these ship drivers, to reinforce with these officers Like, take it freaking seriously, because when you don't, those big ships can have bad days at sea, and we already know that.
Steve Wasson :But God, 2017 was a big reminder for everybody and how, especially in seventh fleet, right, how fast you know. And then I'm defensive for seventh fleet as well a little bit, because you know we drive our cars a lot more than anybody else drives there, right, so I'm defensive of that. But then I'm also like, but that means we have to be that much better than the average bear, right, because we got to take care of ourselves and our people. So when you got to rhode island as an instructor for swaths, was a lot of that a part of the program, then reinforcing like, like skills and bridge navigation and all that stuff it got reworked and uh, I don't want to say refurbished, but there were some more criteria laid down from big Navy and where we as the schoolhouse implemented Um. so rules of the road still same, but uh, then in the pipeline to go to be XOCO and on up, we added more milestones that uh, from incident level you had to start passing stuff, simulator wise, at the ensign level, and then the whole um, uh, continuation or um, when you came back between your department head rides and you had to take the command assessment. You had to take five different exams the uh tactical assessment and the um, the ship handling assessment. So those are seven things. They had to take five different exams the tactical assessment and the ship handling assessment. So those are seven things they had to come back and do if they wanted to go on to command.
Steve Wasson :So not everybody passed all seven the first time up. But if you missed, you only had to come back and do whatever the part you missed. You didn't have to redo all seven. To come back and do whatever the part you missed, you didn't have to redo all seven. So if you missed the tactical assessment and one exam, well then that's all you came back and did is took those two assessments and then got qualified and went on your way and the success rate of those that did it the second time was very high, almost 90%. Those that came back and wanted to do it passed and moved on. So it really wasn't a hindrance. It was just another hurdle for people to jump through to see kind of how bad you wanted it and just a metric and a measure Good. Good. I think that yeah, definitely it's what we do. Right, it's what we do as an organization. We have something unfortunate happen and we start to implement layers of ways to verify so hopefully we can never let that happen again. But then it always almost always comes back down to combating complacency and recognizing that the brilliance on the basics is more than just a catchphrase right like right, it's what keeps people alive. So you find out while you're up in newport that you're going to make 06 right or you're going to select for cap, and that's where you start getting the opportunity to talk about maybe going back again to be in command right yeah to. So if the band plays uh, then your name's in the hat to go again one more time. But having a SWAS instructor on you, then you're kind of in limbo a little bit. You need a little bit of flexibility, because you took a hard one right out of the gate after 05 command and not let down, so to speak. But we wanted to go back overseas and we kind of had to lobby hard to go to the Bahrain one, because typically that's a get well tour for folks because it's hard. But we wanted to go overseas and for whatever reason they said, okay, we'll pencil you in. So I was senior going there more. So right after O5 command, if you needed help, you went there. Like I said, I went to SWAS and, hey, we want to go overseas, can we go to Bahrain? And again, nobody asked to go to Bahrain.
Steve Wasson :So certainly the toughest two years of my career thus far. The job was brutal but the there were fantastic um to work with both in. So my two years one was uh, is current ops anywhere from currently happening up to 48 hours, and then future ops takes it from 48 out to 45 days, and so that was my two wheelhouses. So kind of like going from CIC officer to ops, cops to fops and just brutal heat. I had to badge in three different doors just to get to my office, so phones were left out in the phone bank if you needed something, and so my only comms with Ken would be through an email if she needed me to go down and get a phone. But just everything that we were there with.
Steve Wasson :I was in charge of all fifth-lead assets, so air surface, subsurface, coordinating with ARSENT, marsent and AFSENT, with all the things we do going on in that theater. That was. This guy's job is to track all that and present options to the admiral for any COAs that we needed to execute on. So when I saw the graph and they finally did the unclassed version of the iran and what they did in the bunkers and show where our assets were, with having, uh, nine plus ships over here in the indian ocean, the red sea and the eastern, uh, med, like man, okay, we're going in, we're going in, we're going in. So that was just a cool. Hey, that was my job, that's what I did. Now these guys are getting to execute, finally, one of the plans we've rehearsed for two years. That's exactly what they said. Those pilots have been training for that mission theoretically for years and to your point. We make a habit of reworking missions over and over and over again because things change on the ground and the mission has got to stay as repetitively frosty as possible for when it's go time, right, yeah, and I'm glad that you were able to feel some validation and some sharing some of that love, because what a freaking well laid out mission, right, oh, by the way, almost no, no bad blowback either. Right, it was. Yeah, the conditions on the ground and it couldn't. What a phenomenal thing, right, and I, I, I could. I'm happy for you, bro, that you were able to look at it, be like, because I know that was took a toll on you in that aor.
Steve Wasson :I know that it was a hard time and it's just a hard area. A lot of people go there geo-batched, so they're not afraid to freaking put the work in. And for the people that go there as accompanied tours, they've got to manage keeping up with the unaccompanied guys, plus managing work-life balance, which we all know we're not very good at. Plus managing work-life balance, which we all know we're not very good at, yeah, and then of course it's work-life balance, work-life balance with a caveat right, because you're in Bahrain, it's not, it's great, but then there are nuance to it, right? That's what I've heard. I've never got the chance to do it, but I know it was a. I think COVID comes as you're at the tail end of that tour, right, or? yeah, they were they. Yeah, when I got there, I was, you know, the 14-day ROM. I was in there for 17 days but yeah, they were locked down. They were the ones that had you had to have a green thing on your phone to be able to get in somewhere. But they gave us some index cards to be able to flash to get in somewhere. But, yeah, they were uptight about everything and they were the ones that did the nasal swab that felt like it went to the back of your brain and so but, but they, they got through that as we were leaving, and you know. And then the tail end and Guam, as you know. So when you got the opportunity to go be a Commodore for the for the pre-post, how exciting was that opportunity I was awesome. The first thought I honestly was like how much time do I get to overlap with gary?
Steve Wasson :yeah, right that was yeah, um and yeah. Having been there made it a lot easier to say yes to, because the ship had pulled in there, we'd had some liberty, kind of knew my way around and like, hey, two years on an island, I mean this is granted, we're just now leaving Bahrain, which is hot and kind of insufferable, but hey, this has some green vegetation and wildlife. So, hey, let's go out to Guam and check this out. So easy decision to make to go do. And, man, probably one of the best other than Ashland, second best job I've ever had. Yeah, and did you? do three years on Guam Two, two years on Guam. It was a two-year tour and did you do three years on Guam? Two, two years? on Guam, it was a two-year tour, yeah. So two years on, guam, now you're back in Virginia, up at the Pentagon, the Navy Yard, navy Yard Looking down the pipe at possibly moving on to greener pastures here in the next year, right? Yes, sir. Yes, sir, all right, I think we're about to land this one, brother. I think we're about to. I didn't know. I don't know if you want to talk too much about what your plans are for life after the service, yet or not. I'll leave that up to you. I'll say this um, in about two weeks I am going to drop a retirement papers for August 1st next year. Okay, going to drop uh retirement papers for august 1st next year. Okay, august, so two weeks you're going to drop the time of paper for august 1st next year. What do you want to do for life after uh working in the service? you know yet yes, gary, I do know yet. So, uh, for those watching, if he does post this, I am okay, um, very looking forward. Somebody's always kept me in their, their back pocket and uh, twisted my arm, but I'm happy to to do this. I'll caveat it with working with the sea cadets while I'm in Guam. So I got exposure to a high school type ROTC program, but this one was called Sea Cadets to go on the MSC ships. So I will be headed to Ocala, florida, to meet up with the esteemed CMC Wise and take over the NJRT program there in Ocala at Vanguard High School and have two fellow Ashland crew members uh back to back in uh, some cubicles, cubicles uh outside the, uh, the high school there. So we'll have our own trailers and away we go. So, for everyone listening to the sound of our voice, let me just sell it to you straight you come with, hang out with me at, you know, cala, at vanguard. We're gonna be working together vanguard high school navy junior rotc for a long time. It's not just 18 months, it's not 24 months, it's freaking amazing. It's awesome. I'm bro, we actually. I did a color guard today with the cadets. We did a color. Yeah, yeah, we go back to school this week. So we're actually we're spinning up right now. Right, I can, I can already smell the fuel in the air. Right, we're getting ready to light off everything and deploy. So, before you know it, you're going to be down here doing the same thing and it's going to be exciting stuff. So I'm super excited for you to come down, have the opportunity. You're going to love it, dude, right. We are looking forward to it. Oh for sure the kids are going to watch this episode. By the way, I told them I was doing an episode with you today. They were like, oh, I'm watching that now. I'm not going to post this for a little while, but they're waiting for it. I know they're waiting for it. All right, here we go. I got some rapid-fire questions for you as we wrap this up, okay. Yeah. All right, here we go On the ship. It's Friday night. Are you looking forward to pizza or the wings? Yes, both. No, the pizza we had on Ashland was not that good, so the wings, the wings were much. Yeah, yeah, the wings, the wings were better. Yeah, okay, would you rather have a birthing cleaner job or be at the worker party Like, would you rather do XO's messing and birthing inspections or would you rather be at the worker party doing that? Working party. Worker party. I'm with you, Alright. Would you rather watch De Niro or Pacino in a movie? De Niro. De Niro. Okay, de Niro, how about your favorite duty station over your career? Is it going to be White Beach to be White Beach, or is it going to be Essex, or is it going to be man? I'll say it was Sassaboe, and so whether you say that was Essex or Ashland, so Sassaboe got it. Okay. What was your favorite Liberty Port? Oh, australia. So Sassbo got it. Okay. What was your favorite Liberty Port? Oh, australia, australia, okay, oh yeah. What was the most challenging qualification you ever achieved during your career? Oh yeah, engineering Okay. How about if you could go again? Would you do overseas tour or stateside tour? I'd go overseas again, okay. I appreciate that. Would you rather be independent or on a team? It depends on what I'm doing, but independent if I can get away with it. But if I need a team, then I'll take the team and work with what I got, okay. Steve, do you have a personal leadership philosophy? Yeah, a little bit of what I mentioned earlier, but just instilling in others a willingness and desire to follow you Earlier, but just instilling in others their willingness and desire to follow you. That's how I've done it from once. I learned that I had that after a department head ride and then XOCO. That's just the way I tend to lead is by trying to instill that. So that's my philosophy. Okay, In the Chief's Mess we have some guiding principles. It's deck plate leadership, institutional technical expertise, professionalism, character, loyalty, active communication and a sense of heritage. Out of those principles, which one of those most appeals to you? Um, honestly, it is, and I'm looking at it through my lens as a ceo. When I look at the chief's mess, it's a one-stop shop. When you say go ask a chief, that means something. It's not that that chief has to have the answer, but he goes back to the collective chief's mess as a whole and able to figure it out and come up with a solution yep, and and that's a fact, right, we've, we've seen that actually work. Yep, yeah, yep, we've. Not everyone's had that, that experience, unfortunately, but I will tell you we have, we've seen that and that's an amazing, amazing network. And the new chiefs when they get initiated to be able to trust that and become part of that. It is, I mean that's, you guys lean on each other and it's really make or break. I mean, as a ship goes, is the cohesiveness of the chiefs mess? That's it. Uh, would you rather lead or follow Lead? Okay, all right, man, that's it. You have any save rounds or alibis? No, I appreciate the time, man, I love doing this. Can't wait to be there with you. I can't wait to be down here too. You're going to have we're going to have so much fun, brother, I appreciate your time. Everybody listen to the sound of our voice. If you like this content, please do me a favor. Check out the YouTube channel like, subscribe, follow, you know, send us Christmas cards, all those things. We love you all, Steve. It was good seeing you, brother. I appreciate you. Yeah, man, I'll see you soon, okay. Sounds good, Gary, Later man. Yes, sir, I was born for this. Don't care for the critics. My words are like physics A force that they can't stop. They just don't get it. I think they forget. I'm not done till I'm on top. I know I was born for this. I know I was born for this. I believe, I believe we can write a story.
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