Strength, Faith, And A 12,000-Mile Vision

What happens when you hate running, but choose obedience anyway? That’s the spark at the heart of this conversation with faith-first performance coach Chris Avery — a man who ran a marathon with zero training, logged a mile a day until it became years, and is now mapping a 12,000-mile mission to run the perimeter of America. The story isn’t about superhuman talent; it’s about ordinary action empowered by faith, forgiveness, and a stubborn loyalty to purpose.

We trace Chris’s path from addiction to sobriety, through marriage and fatherhood, and into a coaching philosophy built on simple, repeatable habits. He breaks down the “loop” that changed everything: fail, return to God, fail less, return faster. That spiritual muscle shows up in practical ways — a one-mile start, a 90-day push-up and pull-up challenge, and a run streak designed to protect family and lifestyle. Along the way we unpack why obedience isn’t control but covenant, how purpose emerges in motion, and why perseverance beats resilience when you want fewer knockdowns and more forward lean.

Leaders will love the call for observation over assumptions and “courageous conversations” that replace passive friction with honest dialogue. Parents will find tools to regulate, slow down, and bring grace into the home. Runners and non-runners alike will recognize a blueprint: think in belief, speak in trust, act in faith. If you’ve been waiting for clarity, this episode argues for a different plan — start small, listen hard, and let obedience align your steps with a God-sized mission.

If this resonated, tap follow, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more people find the show. Your next faithful step could change your map.

https://www.wordsfromthewise.net/

Transcript

Meet Chris Avery And His Feats

Gary Wise 0:28

All right, everyone. Welcome back to Words from the Wise. I'm still Gary Wise, the host of this Words from the Wise podcast, coming to you live and direct from Oakala, Florida, here in my little headquarters, aka my family room. And we are talking tonight with a special guest. Uh, this gentleman had his his team or he reached out to me and they basically had seen the podcast and they were interested in coming on the podcast and telling his story. And when I first got the email, I looked at it and I saw that this gentleman, his name is goes, he goes by the name of Mr. Chris Avery. Mr. Chris is from Utah. And for those of you that know me personally, you know that I was born and raised in Utah. And so that for me was a very special connection. And then as I read more into the email, I got the chance to read this, this, this, this awesome brother story. You know, he's a faith first performance coach. I love that leveraging faith to get out there and help people change their lives, guiding men, guiding families through men. They're there everything about that speaks to me and helping them figure out you know their God-given mission. He has this, he's the architect of this run with Christ blueprint, which, in my opinion, is a phenomenal idea. I hadn't heard a lot about that yet. So I'm hoping to hear some more about that. But it's it's a blend of coaching with a group, then, of course, authenticity, and then working his way into helping people out with resiliency and you know, faith, which I will tell you. Well, this is what I tell my students all the time. Unfortunately, if you struggle with faith, you're probably gonna struggle with everything else in the stress space. And so, faith is it needs to be a starting point. Like he's somebody who's logged over 10,000 hours and and not just I would say digesting audiobooks in general, but rewiring his mind so that he could then move into coaching space, oh, starting a business, impacting thousands, running marathons, did a 50 miler during COVID, something about 60,000 push-ups and pull-ups. We gotta talk about that. And so, you know, without further ado, let me bring this monster to the stage. Uh, Mr. Chris Avery, how you doing, man?

Chris Avery 2:30

Excellent, man. Thanks for having me on. I'm gonna I'm gonna bring you everywhere I go. You make me sound better than I am. You know, I like this.

Gary Wise 2:35

My guy, man. I was reading through your stuff, and I was just like, Wow, this guy has I I've done a lot of things. You you were out there pushing some serious weight, bro. And that's so respect, man. Like, what's this thing about 60,000 push-ups and pull-ups in 90 days? Was that a goal you set out to achieve?

Challenges That Build Grit

Chris Avery 2:54

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, we we did some challenges, we ran that marathon with like our first marathon we ran with no training. Then we came back and did the 50 miler, you know, and I love doing challenges, I love pushing myself to see how to the breaking point. And so we decided, like, hey, let's see if we can hit 60,000 push-ups and pull-ups uh, you know, over 90 days, and uh, we just got after it, man. And uh it was it wasn't necessarily like there wasn't it wasn't even that we had to do it every day, so it's not like the run thing that we set up now, but we don't have to do it every day. But you know, at some point, if you don't do it, those really start to, you know, 300, 400 push-ups and pull-ups every day start to really pile up on you quickly if right if you get uh too far behind. So we really just kicked it out, man. Just had fun, prepped, and learned how to grow our body and grow that strength, and then just went after it and had a good time.

Gary Wise 3:45

So before you before you attacked that goal in particular for me, the push-ups and pull-ups goal. Had you already been consistently doing push-ups and pull-ups, like like in the space of like large numbers?

Chris Avery 3:57

Uh no, not really. I mean, like, so you know, when so we we hit I mean, I've been to the gym plenty of times up until when I started to run, but so we've been to the gym plenty of times. We were already had some strength build up. I'm not gonna say we did it. Uh, and then we did spend a couple of months prepping where we would just figure out how to get that many in in a day with with business and with kids and with what you know, like how do how do I even do that? And so we practiced that a little bit more, and then we would get up to about a hundred pull-ups in a day, and then we kicked in to actually the challenge like it.

Gary Wise 4:30

I mean, I I just think that what that shows is that elephant, he'd take one bite at a time, right? Like, if you want to take on the the oppos the this big opportunistic idea or visionary goal, well, step one is get to eating, bro. Like, start, start, right? Chop chop, and then figure it out on the way there. Because a lot of people are always trying to figure out every every every minute detail, and then unfortunately they get stuck in the in that decision-making space, they don't ever get going. Absolutely. So I think that that's a that is a very good example of somebody who just said, This is what we're gonna do. You figured out the broad strokes and said, All right, let's get to pushing and pulling, baby. Yeah, and away you go.

Action Before Alignment

Chris Avery 5:11

And and and I I think that speaks so true, Gary. And if we get to it more later, if we talk about the run, we can. Uh, but you know, with that being said, whenever I coach men, so many of them are like, I want to know my purpose. And I and I sit there and go, like, okay, cool. Have you ever driven a car that has no power steering? Have you ever done that?

Gary Wise 5:31

I have, yeah, definitely.

Chris Avery 5:33

It's really hard, right? Like, it's and then when you push on the gas though, it gets going and you get a little bit of movement. And so most of us want alignment without obedience. And for me, the at so what I'll do is I'll take the men back if they're having a problem finding their purpose. We take a step back and we go, like, what are we gonna just choose one thing? We're gonna get an action. Whatever you feel is in alignment with your purpose, let's just get an action. Because as soon as that action happens, it really just clears the air and it gets you feedback quick. And once you get feedback, then you can maneuver and shift. And that what you said during the the keen observation that you made about the push-ups and pull-ups is also applied later to the run stuff that we um are doing right now at this moment.

Gary Wise 6:14

Okay, and I definitely we're definitely gonna talk to that, man. I uh I'm you know what's funny about running in particular, in particular running, and I'm a five foot six man, so I'm not very tall. I'm not I'm I didn't know I was short until I met my wife, and then she now she lets me know consistently, right? Before I met her, brother. I thought I was seven feet tall, man. And I'm not I'm like Gimli off Lord of the Rings, right? I'm built for I'm built for long distances, I'm not built for speed. Yeah, I love that. Once upon a time, I was in San Diego with some brothers of mine, and we started trail running, and uh we decided that we were gonna do a half marathon, and then my buddy says, calls me up, says, Hey man, I just signed up for the rock and roll whole marathon, and I was just like, that wasn't the plan, that's not what we said we were gonna do. And long story short, I ran a marathon, and so and it changed my life in multiple ways, right? Because seeing just the diversity of people that were was out there running the marathon was a life changer for me because in my mind it was always some slim dude from like North Africa who was gonna get out there and smoke it, right? The kids from high school they were on track team, right? And it was everybody was you had people in wheelchairs doing it, you had people singing freaking songs as they're running, doing it. It was just it was it was an amazing culture or an amazing community, right? To be in that moment, and so I can definitely relate to to you getting out there and running and leading people through running and and showing them that they're they could probably go a lot farther than they thought they could go, and again, it goes back to that whole starting something, right? You just got it going, build the momentum, and and have a target, right? And I love what you said about having alignment with your purpose. Um, before I get into that one, because I want to talk that one some more too. You mentioned earlier briefly, uh, family, children, all that stuff. So, can you take us back to the early days of you starting down this path? And were you just were you married, having some kids, and like working a day job, and then all of a sudden thought, hey man, this is not what I want to do with my life?

Marathon Culture And Mindset

Sobriety, Marriage, And Calling

Chris Avery 8:19

Yeah, so that man, that's that's a big that's a big question. Uh really the way it worked was I had a lot of mental health issues, drug and alcohol issues when I was younger. And so that set me up in my 20s to have a lot of issues, you know, like obviously just mentally. And so I had to figure out how to handle myself emotionally. And luckily, I met a young lady. I'm originally from Phoenix, Arizona. I live in Utah now, but she we met. I was in my early 30s. I found God finally. Um, I was really, you know, sober, taking good care of myself, and I met her. And she's really the reason I started running. Like, I hated running, literally. And I I I'll say today, even today, I still hate running, right? Like five times I did it, I did it five times in 20 years just to make sure I hated it because I, you know, I need to do it five times just to double check. Yep, still hate it, okay. So, you know, five times in 20 years, and then I met my now wife at that time. She was running marathons, and she just was like said kept saying, like, hey, I'm gonna run this marathon. You want to run me? I'm like, no, never, never, don't ever ask me that. I was like, How far do you have to? I don't even know how far you had how far do you have to run? 26.2 months, and you pay, you pay somebody for that. And she's like, Yeah, it's gonna be fun. I'm like, no, it's not. But going like backing up what you're saying, though, when I got there, there were everybody at the starting line was not the runner body that I thought I was gonna see. It is it's a great community, it's just like the Spartan races, they're a great community, and it's very, you know, diverse. Uh, but anyway, so I so we she runs her first marathon, we get married, I support her, you know, I'm on the sidelines, I'm throwing fruit at her, you know, we're getting her past the finish line, and she finishes, she's a pump. So, long story short, she's gonna run her last marathon. She had friends that were gonna run it with her, but they called her like about a month ahead of time and said, Hey, we're not gonna run. We have not trained enough, we're gonna postpone it. And she was like, Well, this is my last one, so I may drop out. And I said, No, I'm not gonna let you drop out. I was finally a good teammate, you know? I said, No, I'm not gonna let you drop out. I got you, right? I'm gonna step into this. She's like, You will? I was like, Yeah, and she's like, she's shocked, like, you really are you joking? I'm like, No, I'm signing up tonight, I'm gonna get new shoes, I'm gonna walk in them. And she's like, What? Yeah, I was like, the only stipulation I want with you is I'm not gonna train at all with you. You got a month, you're gonna train, I'm not gonna train. So we went and ran that. And that was really uh, you know, like, and and I want to answer your question, I want to make sure I'm answering it. So, you know, at that time I was working with a company and doing a lot of coaching. So it wasn't, it wasn't like they told me what time to show up, it wasn't a nine to five or anything like that. You know, they just what they did was they supplied clients to us and we coached them. And so that was really what I was doing at that time because when throughout my sobriety/slash drug use, I worked for a lot of big companies and I never lost my job. I always kept it. So I always had a good pain, steady nine to five job. And then when I finally got sober, I said, screw it. Like this isn't I I I don't feel fulfilled with the job. I don't love working for these people. What am I doing? I'm just selling my soul for a little bit of change. And so I decided I just wanted to go off and do my own thing, and I wanted to, you know, when I got part of me getting sober was being around these other people that were doing coaching. So I got to go to their events, I got to help them run their events, and that was my first like transformation of getting sober. And so when I did that, I got to see the impact that when because we were supporting like the group of people, the new people coming in, you got to see the impact and the transformation. I went like, man, this is what I want to do. And so we so I moved to Utah, we start the runs, and and that's really where it started, right? I wasn't working a nine to five when I did the 60,000. I wasn't working a nine to five when I did the uh this challenge that we're doing now, the run across the run around the perimeter of America. I wasn't doing it for any of those, so it was very much just me, my wife, and then we had a little girl during the training for this new run, but we didn't even have kids up until that point.

Gary Wise 12:24

Okay, amazing. And so what I love about that part of your story is your wife needing she had this support group and then she did it, and then that caused her to be a little shaky, and you stepped in right. And for me, that hits home because I just hate when we have a goal that we say we're gonna do as a team, whether it's my family or my school at my classroom or when I was in the service, and then all of a sudden people don't want to do it because they don't feel like we've prepared enough, right? Yep, and for me, that's that's a that's a conversation we can have, but it doesn't mean we don't get it not do the thing, right? Yeah, yeah, right. Like the mission's got to go on, right? So, whatever we got to do to prepare in in this red red zone, right? Let's get that done, but we're not gonna just push it off because that's that's bigger that that's a bigger problem than just not doing it, in my opinion. There's a lot of other problems that cascade into that, and then for you stepping up and helping her, I'm a big believer in telling people that my wife is my coach, right? Without without a doubt, and I didn't make that up, bro. I got it from Kat Williams, right? On a comedy special, I love that, bro. Cat Williams is like, your girl, your woman better be your coach, she better be telling you what to do and how to do it. And you and and I remember watching that comedy routine, like, damn, he's spitting bars, man. Like, that makes so much sense. Yeah, she knows me better than I know myself, she does, and in that moment, she needed you to be that person for her, and luckily she accepted you to do that, right? Because you had your boundaries, right? You said, Hey, but I gotta do it this way, right? Yeah, but she accepted she accepted those boundaries, and then away you guys went. So that's that's an amazing story, and of course, it began the journey that you're on now. Uh, I also can connect with the fact of you know, I'm just like you had my challenges with drugs and alcohol. I I'm currently just over a year sober. Congrats, man. And well, I you know, thank you. I I still don't know why I'm sober, I'll be honest with you. Like, I'm an alcoholic, I knew I was an alcoholic, but I've been very regimented for a while, right? But it got to the point where my wife was just like, I think I was getting older, right? In body chemistry, and just she was always worried about having to take care, like she's always worried, you know, is this gonna be the night that he throws it all away? And I get that. And when you're not drinking, I don't have to have to have that worry, right? I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna throw it away because of alcohol, right? Like that's not a worry, right? Like it could be a throw-away because of some other reason, but it's not gonna be booze, right? And that was it's been an interesting journey, and so I think a lot of people out there that struggle with their their their self-medicated ways that they handle things in life, because it's not just always booze and drugs, right? We've got different ways that we unfortunately cover up things that we're struggling with. Um, but I I I think a lot of people can connect with that now. Back to I want to get to your faith uh real quick, if you don't mind. No, I love it. I I I love hearing people's faith stories, you know, because I think that it reminds a lot of us how we built our own, as well as you somebody might hear your story and really resonate with that. So, what was it that caused you to wake up one day or what what what was that experience where you felt God and you felt like, okay, this is real, like I'm gonna do something about this feeling.

Finding God And Forgiveness

Chris Avery 15:44

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, it really started with almost one of the last days of me using. I just remember, you know, like I I met like I knew there was a God, right? My parents said, Hey, there's a God. We went to church on those Christmas Eve, you know, sing along kind of things. But that was all that was all I really knew. And so uh what you know, going back to just when I got sober, I got around these amazing people, and a lot of them were followers of Christ, and a lot of them were just really good people, good family people, and they that they're the ones that helped me understand my my mental struggles. And I remember like going to different churches and just looking and going, like, man, all right, this doesn't feel right, this doesn't feel right. And one of them just said, like, hey, I I think you're searching a lot for God, and it seems like you are like, Do you do you want to have like discussions about him? And I said, Yeah, like I I'm ignorant, I don't know, you know, I know his name, G O D. That's what I got for you, you know. That's what I had to add to this conversation. Uh yeah, yeah. So as long as you're willing to be one-sided conversation where you share a lot with me, I'm open to it. And so we started just talking, and and it really helped fortify from what I had gone through in my past to seeing the forgiveness that you get, and to see the lifting of not only just the forgiveness for you, but like forgiveness now that you can apply to other people, because if we can't do it to ourselves, it's hard for us to do it for other people. And I know we say like it's we forgive that person, but really do we forgive them? Right. And so during that last, like I remember walking down the stairs of my house, and I uh you know, and and I'm sitting on the couch, and uh, I drank the night before and I was, you know, doing drugs the night before. And I just remember waking up and going, like, God, this has gotta be like there's gotta be something because uh there were several times where I thought, like, man, if this is it, I'm gonna take a bullet train. Like, I'm I'm not staying here. I'm not, it's not if this is my rest of my life, this is not life. You know what I'm saying?

Gary Wise 17:55

I understand. I understand. Unfortunately, I get it.

Chris Avery 17:58

Yeah, and you know, like I think most most of us, especially as men, we have that hero's journey in us. We go like, man, there's gotta be something greater. This has gotta be for a reason. Like, if this is my dragon, then like please help me learn how to slay it. Yeah, and I just remember sitting on that couch that day and just going, like, man, there's gotta be something. This has gotta be the last day. Like, last night has to be the last night. And fortunately for me, um, and and you know, if you want more details, I can tell you how many times I relapsed or how many times I knew God, but still went back to the old choices. But this was the time, this was the day where I finally just went, like, this is it. And that was nine years ago, almost you know, nine and a half years ago. And it just it gave such peace and clarity to the past and to where we could go in the future. And I never had that without God. I never had the understanding of even the suffering or the point of it. I never had an understanding of like where my bad choices came from and where they like and where my good choices could take me. And there was so much self-loathing and hate from you know it not and and then that got projected the world, right? Like, if I'm this way, like everybody else is this way, and the world's a horrible place, and it really did. And I'm not like my parents were great parents. It's I'm not blaming my parents. I mean, at times I blame my parents, right? But I was like the victim, and you guys were the perpetrators, and the world was the perpetrating me. So if I'm the victim, but now when you got to God, you became empowered, you became like understanding that any change you wanted to make through God it was possible, right? And there was just this freedom that never came in life and has never come in life from anything worldly, only from the spiritual, and that's really the journey. And and I hope I answered your question, but that was really the journey to coming to God.

Gary Wise 19:48

No, no, and you did in multiple ways, like there were so many layers to the answer. But what I love about it is you said the exact word that I was hoping to hear, which was forgiveness, right? And that for God, I think people get it too conflicted, they they don't they make it too complicated, and it because it's hard, like you said, it's hard to forgive ourselves, yeah. And so, how could a God forgive me so simply of all the things that I cannot forgive myself for? Right, and I think the other part of that is and because we know we're human and we know we're gonna make a mistake again. So, why forgive me today? Because I'm gonna screw up again tomorrow, right? And that's the scary part of the asking for the forgiveness because you're like, dude, I don't believe in myself to not screw it up tomorrow, so I'm not gonna ask for forgiveness today. But God's not saying that, He's saying, brother, let me help you be stronger tomorrow by forgiving you today, filling you with my spirit, and and being your riding shotgun with you through this journey called life. Leverage me, lean on me, follow me, right? And and when you do trip up, unfortunately, we'll all be there to catch you and away we go, right? And yeah, I think that is the that is one of the hardest things, and I will tell you, I that was something I struggled with in my marriage when we were younger, married. I couldn't believe my wife when she would say she forgave me, because I how can you forgive me when I can't forgive myself? Like, I don't believe you, right? And so we'd have that would be an antagonistic conversation that until I finally really got aligned with my faith, could I actually fully believe that she forgave me? Right. And that was a challenge in my life, and so I think a lot of people do find their way to God, like straight up as an adult, like because, like you, I was raised in a faith-based home. I had we had faith. A lot of my cousins and aunts and uncles and everybody had religion. Um, but it wasn't like I was not super religious as an adult, right? Like I left the church as a teenager, went on my merry way, and my wife and I it was when my my oldest son was born that she was like, I kind of want to go to church so that we can have some help teaching him some of the stuff that we're not embodying. As parents, right? Right? Like, not not even lying to you. Like, that was kind of the conversation, right?

Chris Avery 22:08

Like, we're not living it, so let's go take around people that maybe are at least talking about it, you know.

Coaching Origins And Impact

Gary Wise 22:13

Maybe we can get somebody in a Sunday school class can teach him some things because she's like, I I don't have I don't know what how I feel about God. How am I gonna teach him about God? But I want to God, right? I don't want to be a hypocrite though. And and we found different churches that really fit us and and gave us good words that gave us good vision, but ultimately it was my deep roots, right? The roots that my parents had put into my spirit, and then my own making a choice as an adult to believe, right? I to have faith because I believe I had to choose it, um, but then I had to ask for it as well, and then finally feeling that forgiveness, and then and then away the whole thing went, right? But it started with that forgiveness, and then of course, right behind that's hope and and all the other good things that come with it. So thank you so much for sharing your story. Um, when you when you got into the coaching space, um, were you pulled into the space, or did you kind of push your way into the space? Like, what was it about working with people to help them better their situation that that got you into that arena?

Chris Avery 23:19

Yeah, yeah. And I almost tie it back to even the God thing that we just talked about, where so when you get closer to God, just keep in mind if you're not close to God right now, you probably don't have too many attacks. But as soon as you try to get closer to God, Satan's gonna attack you more. And so the truth is, I think it's almost it's almost like this. And if you go look up the word Lucifer, which is Satan, right? Lucifer means light bearer, so it means he brings the light. And he in heaven, we believe he was a trial lawyer. That's one of the thoughts, right? Is that he was a trial before. So he brings, so he brings your like he brings your file of your sins and he brings them to light. So whatever challenges you sin-wise, and he brings it to light, and then he puts you on trial. But the truth of the matter is God's so great because his grace and he wants you to be obedient because he's gonna give you the best life if you're obedient to what he's telling you. So when you fail, all he's asking you to do is he knows you're not you're not gonna not fail, right? He knows you're gonna fail again. So all he's asking you to do is loop, make the loop quicker. Hey, once you fail, like don't turn away from me, turn back to me. Right, and and the whole point is to speed that process up. Like, oh man, I screwed up back to you. Oh, I screwed up back to you, and then oh, before I screw up, back to you, so I screw up less and less and less. Amazing. Do you want to say something on that? Because if not, I'll go to the coaching question.

Gary Wise 24:38

No, keep going. That was just an amazing way to explain that loop thing. I never heard that before, but that's just an amazing way to say it.

Chris Avery 24:45

Thanks. It's the spirit, you know. I'll give it, I'll give all credit to God and the spirit. Um, so you know, with the coaching thing, like I said, I went to those live events, and that's really where I started to uh coach people on a lower level and and be able to like coach them and help them through their problems. And then I realized just like God, I wanted to help people come back. Like, hey, I if I'm here and I want to go here, okay, I'm gonna edge towards this way, but I'm not gonna maybe get to the outcome that I want. So I may come back to my old identity. And how do we close that loop and make it quicker? And so for me, really, I found my way into coaching from the events, and then you know, working with Michael was his name, Michael Burnoff from he's in Scottsdale, Arizona. If anybody wants to look him up, great guy. Uh, but he really, when I was working with him, he just said, like, hey, what do you want to do? And I said, I want to do, I want to help people. Like, I've seen too many people have better lives, including myself, from your event. I want to figure out some level, whatever that looks like for me. And then I just moved up here, and luckily, luck, you know, luck or god, however you want to put it, I moved up here and then I met somebody, and they were just like, Hey, you got to meet this guy. Like, he's working with people. He wants he wants them to like not just have therapy, but he wants them to coach. And so we just got connected to a few good people when we moved up to Utah, and that's really what kicked it off. And then, you know, we went and knocked on business doors and walked, drove around a bunch of buildings, and everybody thought that was crazy. But we did that because we're we're working on getting business, you know?

The Daily Run Begins

Gary Wise 26:17

Mm-hmm. Yeah, very cool, man. Very cool. I think that just uh the people that are in the space of helping other humans, I think are very special people, right? Because there's a lot, I mean and I say that from the perspective of coaches, educators, law enforcement, you know, pick your flavor of person that I I I broke my back one time and I laid on the ground, called 911, and knew they were coming to get me. Right. The people that fill that that that step into that gap that help people out when they're going through something in life, whether it's a I mean, whether it's a ministry person, whether it's whatever that person is, I think are very special people because it takes a lot out of you, I'm sure, to help people go somewhere in their life, right? Personally, there's gotta be a load, right? I I know the load that I've had in my life helping people, whether I was in the military, my I mean, I tell my students, I was like, you know, three days this week that door is opened up with somebody bursting into tears. And I had no understanding as to why. And I was the person they saw it out to come talk to because they needed to get off their chest. And oh, by the way, there's no time for this because you got to go to class, like the bell just rang, right? But thank you for stopping by to drop your load on me. I will carry for the rest of the day. I'm ready for that. I appreciate you, and so for people that step into that arena, it takes us, you've got to, in my opinion, especially to be good at it, you've got to be called to it or you've got to be pulled into it, and you've got to have a higher purpose uh to do it. And so I was very I was interested as to how you got there, but and I and I appreciate you for sharing that because as we get into this next part about your running and the leadership you're doing with that, I'm sure that's all part of the same journey. And I and I also appreciate your story, how you kind of put yourself through physical hill to to then bring them along for to get to get them to to get them hooked into well, what is he talking about, right? And because especially with men, right? Men are impressed by feats of strength or feats of like you did what? Yep, you did that? Wow, like, but you look like me, bro. Like, how did you like I could do that? Yeah, bro. You could you could you too could believe in God, brother? Let's go, all right, and we're having a whole different conversation, right? And away it goes. So the running thing, you are currently working to just so I understand this correctly, to run around the border of our entire country, yeah.

Why The Perimeter Of America

Chris Avery 28:47

So so right now we've run for over four years straight. So we started 2022, uh, and we can go over the details and explain more how that all worked out if you want to hear this the full story. Yeah, I do definitely. Okay, so January 2022, we start, right? And man, that day the day I woke up, it was January 8th. Okay, I just remember waking up and go like, man, the the the pull-ups wasn't enough, the the 50 mile wasn't enough, the running the marathon wasn't enough because it it was it and it because I wanted to do something bigger. Gary, when you said, man, when they look at me and they go like Chris is not impressive, because it's not like people outside looking in you go, like, it's extraordinary that he's run that long. It's not, it's ordinary things extra. And that's what I'm that's what I want. People like you said, that guy that goes like, oh, if Chris can do it, I can do it. That's what I want. Because I want you to realize like I am not exceptional, it's God's power that runs through me. And because I obey and I and I'm serving a bigger purpose and mission, but without that, like you can do it too. And that is the whole purpose. And so, like when we started in January 8th, I woke up and I'm like, man, you know, I'm sitting on my edge of my bed. I'm like, I got we got to do something bigger. And I go, like, all right, you know what? I'm gonna start running a mile. Because I because I looked back at my tracker and even every day of training during the 50, we'd never run more than four days in a row. So I was like, I don't even know if I can run five days in a row. So I was like, let me do a mile. I'm gonna start so small, so stupid, and so easy that if I can't like, if I don't do a mile in 24 hours, I'm gonna laugh at myself, right? I'm literally if I'm going to bed and I haven't finished a mile, I'm just gonna go to bed and go like okay, get back up and go run. Because it's so simple, right? 15-minute walk, 10-minute run. So we make it real simple, we make it real small, we get started, and we start running the mile. And one thing I said to myself when I became a coach, and this is this is a couple important reasons for me to become a coach, was one, I wasn't gonna tell anybody to do something that I hadn't done or that I'm not currently doing. Like I never want to be the used to be, right? Used to bees don't make no honey. I used to be this, I used to be that, used to bees don't make no honey. That's a Les Brown quote. And so I always loved that. And I don't want to be a used to be, right? I want to tell you about my press clippings from 60 years ago and tell you to do something. So I wanted to be active and do it. And I wanted to do something so hard and so demanding that other people could go, like, man, if he can do it, that he's simply not that extraordinary, I can do it too. And so we get into coaching and we get into the running, and really it's about us being our best self because then if we're gonna be our best self and we're gonna ask other people to be the best self, we're gonna show, right? It's the church thing. You took your kids to church to see an example. I just want to be the example. And so we started the January 9th. We got up, we started running the mile, we did a mile every day for 90 days. And really, like I said, it started with, let me see if I can do a week, then we got to a week, then we're like, let's see if we can do a month, and then let's see if we can do 90 days. And originally we were like, Oh, we'll run across America. That'll be cool. I mean, let's do that, right? Like, people have done, and there was somebody doing that right then. That right at the beginning of the year, there was somebody doing that from Britain. He came over here, he was gonna run the most run it across the quickest that it's ever been done. So I'm watching his videos. I'm like, cool, let's do it, let's do the across America thing. My wife quickly Google searches it. Two to 500 people. Well, we're not doing that, not gonna do that at all. That's way too many people because I love doing like my part of my drive and part of my identity, and this is the reason it's important to know what drives you and what your identity is, is doing something unique, doing something so dang hard that people go like that's crazy. So I wanted to do the incorporate those two things. So then we my wife, you know, and I were running, and then a year goes by and we're still trying to figure out like, will we do like a V? So upper west coast, down to the bottom of Texas, back up to East Coast. And then eventually, two and about two and a half years into the running, my wife goes, like, why don't you run the perimeter of America? That that would be really cool. And I'm like, All right, now we're talking. This sounds unique, this sounds something fun. This could be very challenging. Let's look it up, let's see how many miles it is, you know. So a little over, a little less than 12,000 miles we'll run. Uh, we'll run every day of the calendar year, 365 days. And when we were looking at it, we were trying to decide do we do so a 50k is 31.1 miles. So do we do a 50k or do we do a 50 mile every day? And we decided this that we want people, especially men, but people to look and go like, Chris has kids, he has a wife, he's not sitting over there massive wealthy, doesn't have a huge company that's gonna fund him all this stuff while he's doing it. But he's not using those things as reasons to not do it, he's using those things as reasons to do it. And I wanted to, and when we looked at the mileage, we went, because I was very set on like let's do 50 miles. And my wife's like, that's gonna take up a ton of the day. If you want to have any relationship with the kids and me, like that probably isn't the smartest. Like, this is about having a lifestyle because we want to travel in an RV for the around the United States, even after this. So we decided, all right, let's make it about lifestyle, family, God, and running. And really, when I started the run thing, I wanted to show people, like, man, this is like if if we can run this much, like, look at what God made us capable of. And it's really shifted to man, look at how ordinary and weak I am, and look at like what God can do when his power flows through you, when you're very connected to him. And this is the running has been the biggest spiritual growth. It's helped me become the best father I can be yet, and the best husband I can be yet. And I want to get any of that without running, and that's just running every day, right? Um, so really that's that's how the running journey started, and that's really how you know the coaching journey tied into it.

Family, Lifestyle, And Miles

Gary Wise 34:44

I love it, man. I I love the I I love everything. I love knowing yourself well enough to know what you what what inspires you, right? I tell that's one of my favorite things. I tell people motivation is not my favorite because I feel like it wears out. Inspiration is that thing where you what you need to know, your what's your muse, right? What is the thing that fires you up? And then how can you align that or use that to align you with your purpose, like you said earlier, or the things you want to get done in this world and allow it to help keep you going. And I appreciate your wife balancing you out because it's not just about accomplishing the goal as fast as possible, but it's about balance, right? It's about balancing out you know, all good things in in in in in the proper uh amount, right? As you do things in life, trying to figure it all out, even though balance sounds good. I've still never figured it out fully. It's tough when you're a person who's passionate about living a life, right? But we're like you said earlier, it's always a journey that you're taking on, and hopefully tomorrow you'll be better than you were today. And and away you go. Uh, I love the idea though of going around the country and showing your kids not just this great country that we get the opportunity to live in and the wild differences in the areas of the country because it's so different when you go to different parts of it, but then to also get to see you and your your family, your wife doing something that's you know incredible, and that's amazing. And and as you do it, you know, I'm sure you guys are gonna have this just gonna be the experience of without a doubt a lifetime. God only knows what you're gonna do after you run the dang perimeter of the United States, but but let's get through this one first, right? Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Chris Avery 36:24

That's that's that's what my wife keeps telling me, you know. Like, oh, hold on, hold on before let's finish the first thing first, you know. Okay, that's fine.

Gary Wise 36:31

I get it, and then I just I appreciate all the planning that you guys are putting into it, probably looking at maps and figuring out strategically the RV thing answered one of my questions, right? Yeah, what you were gonna help for accommodations. Um, yeah, amazing. Now, one of the areas that I when I when I was researching on you a little bit, you talk a lot about obedience. Um, and then as I listened to you tell me about how the running has just changed your life, right? And I would imagine in your mind the running has been linked to obedience, right? Like you have you must run now because you're obediently doing what has been put in your path to do, right? Um, how important is that is obedience to a person uh as they're trying to work their way through this journey of life and why oh why the word obedience?

Obedience, Purpose, And Faith

Chris Avery 37:21

Yeah, yeah. I I and I even want to go back to one of your podcasts I was listening to, and you talked about resiliency, which by the way was very uh like a ha moment for me. So I really appreciate it. And you said you like perseverance more. I do, yeah, and I and I really like that. I really dig that, you know, because I'm a big I'm a big fan of resiliency. I I I feel like I have a ton of it, but I really liked your perspective of shifting that to perseverance. So I want to say first I appreciate that. So I'm hoping to do the same thing right now with obedience. So oh, most of us look at and go, especially in today's American world, you know, it's like, oh, I don't obedient. That that sounds like somebody has control over me. I don't I don't want to do that, I want to be free and you know, have freedom and do what I want. Uh, I will put it this way. I think obedience gets the the wrong rap because we don't have a clear, we don't have God's perspective on it. And I and I have one percent, so I'm gonna give you the one percent perspective of God that I have from it. If somebody came up to you and was like, hey, have the greatest plan for your life, it's gonna have you have the best life here right now, it's gonna have you have the best life after, it's gonna have you have the most joy, power, and like clarity and peace and comfort in your life, no matter what storm you go through. You into that all day, yeah, all day. But most people think obedient, like, oh, he's just gonna control me. Like, no, thou shalt and thou shalt not. Those are the commandments. But the piece that people miss about the obedience is the covenant, and that is the relationship piece. And Christ didn't die on a cross for religion, he died for a relationship. So, to me, when I look at obedience, it is a relationship. Because guess what? When I marry my wife, I'm obedient to her, she's obedient to me. We are dedicated. So I got I got four D's drive, dedication, determination, and discipline. And everybody wants discipline. But what I'll tell you is just like I told you before, is I know what drives me, right? And I and I'm clear on what I'm dedicated to. But when I'm dedicated to the obedience and I'm dedicated to God, we are building trust with each other, and that's what obedience shows. He he shows me and he tells me through scriptures what I can do, what he'll he promises. And he says, if you do this, so now we're building trust and a relationship together. Okay, I'm gonna obey you, and then you're gonna also obey what you said and do what you said. And so obedience is this amazing trust-building relationship that you have, and if you can do it with Heavenly Father, you will have such a better like base for you to build it with anybody else. And so to me, obedience is this line in the sand that says, Here is your greatest standards, here is the greatest way you can live, here is the hell, here is the person that loves you the most and knows you better than you know yourself. And all he's asking you is, here's a clear plan. Can you follow it? And most of us say no, because it's my will, not thy will. And we know, like, oh okay, I I I want these things, I want the outcome to look like this. And when we realize like that's all worldly stuff, that's not spiritual stuff. And if you go read Romans 8, life after the flesh, we're already dead, but life after the spirit, you'll live forever. And when we realize like all the warfare that's happening right now in this world is spiritual warfare, it is not carnal warfare. And so when we when we understand obedience, now we are spiritually primed to live our best life, to come become the best person. Because one of my greatest fears is I go to I go home to heaven, and God shows and he says, like, what were you doing the whole time down there? And he goes, Like, here's a here's a mirror of you. You could have been this, but you missed the mark and you were this. And that gives me so much like good energy of fear of like, man, I don't want to do that. I want to live up to what he's put in me, and uh and that only comes from obedience because we will never live our best self without being obedient to something. We will never know our true greatness inside and our and our in our pushing our limits and our boundaries without being obedient to something because I'm obedient to the run. Because the run isn't about me. The run is about the men that we're going to show and and to show people through God this is what you could achieve. And it's just like you brought up earlier when you brought up about the girls that jumped out of the marathon with my wife, right? They thought it was about them. I didn't do training enough, I didn't do this. Just listen to your statements. If if your statements are a lot of like eyes, eyes, eyes, I can tell you what the problem is. Right. It's because you're so deeply focused on the things you don't have, and it's about you that like of course, of course, you're gonna jump out because it's not about serving others. It's not the girls didn't say, like, oh, we're with Mel, she wants to run it, it's her last one, let's serve her. They said, like, no, I didn't do it. I'm gonna jump out. And so to me, like, that is what that's the reason obedience is so important because it is it when we go, like, hey, I have a mission, I can't figure Chris, guys cut to me all the time, like, yeah, man, but like I don't know how to figure out my mission, like I don't know what which like thing to do. And I go, like, how many times have you heard a prompting to do something and you haven't done it? Yeah, and they go like, Oh, I do it all the time. I said, Yeah. So, like, if if you're not if I if my son's in the other room and he moves over and I'm looking through the door and I can see him, he's in alignment with me. When he moves, he's out of alignment. So when we are obedient, we are now in alignment, and now we can feel the purpose easier. We can now understand our purpose easier, but most of us are trying to figure out something while standing still, and we got to get into a little active obedience, and then that image, that feeling, that clarity will come.

Parenting With Pace And Grace

Gary Wise 43:28

Facts, facts, and and I'll tell you so again, so many good things in this, you know. First thing that came to mine as you were telling me uh your perspective, I thought about that Les Brown story about laying in the hospital bed and having the spirits of all the things around you that that God sent your way and that you chose to let go by you, then it haunts him, right? It haunts him a little bit. And so I I resonate with that a whole bunch. And then I tell the story to my students often of the time I'm I met my wife. Because if I had not taken the initiative. On that day to hear that small spirit that said, Hey, that person's special. You need to approach her, you need to be authentic, you need to be yourself, you need to not run any games because there's something about that person that's going to change your life. And I did, if I had not done that, my whole life would have been completely different, right? And then I always wonder, what if today I'm gonna miss another one of those opportunities to to capitalize on something that God's teed up for me, right? Yeah, that is it's it's now it's there for you if you take it, you've got to go get it. It's your free agency to make that choice, but I'm really recommending you go do it, bro. Right? And so I I definitely live with that sense of urgency in my life of feeling like uh make sure you're aligned and that you don't miss the opportunities to receive your blessings. Yeah, because to your other piece about obedience, I believe that if you like you prayed to God for a purpose, you prayed to God for whatever, and then you pray you start running, and then you set a goal to continue running. So now you're probably praying to have the strength to keep running, right? Well, guess what? God's blessing you with that strength to keep running. So now you got to be obedient to it because you're being blessed with the strength to keep running because you asked for it. Yeah, right. So be careful which wish for because you guys might get it. For sure. Yeah, God said you're right, but now that I'm giving it to you, you got to be obedient to it because you asked me for it. Because you're you're you're coming to the altar and you're asking for this strength, this purpose, this thing. But being uh loyal to yourself enough to finish what you start in my mind is directly aligned with obedience because almost anything I start, I pray on it and I ask for the the help and understanding that it's the right thing, that I'm doing it for the good of God, that it's gonna help bring people to Him, that all the things are aligned and not just because I want to do it, right? Help me make sure that it's a good thing. Because sometimes if it's not a good thing, I'll read it later because maybe I went out on that all of branch and wasn't there. And then the final piece of the obedience piece. Um, you know, my son is currently going into college right now, he's he's a high school senior, about to graduate, but he's starting off in in junior college as well. And I'm to the space where I don't want to know about it, right? Bro, you're supposed to be in college. Come tell me when you're failing and I'll help you. But you need to have a little bit of this responsibility. I don't want to be micromanaging your great. My wife, on the other hand, she don't know how to not do that, right? She's she's she's gonna be on him, and and so he told her a thing that wasn't exactly true, and that was where I had a problem, right? I I don't want to be in your weeds on what you're doing, but if you if you tell your mom something that's not exactly true, now you and I got a problem because what we're not gonna do is we're not gonna say one thing and then do another. I mean, I I love your mom, you got to respect her, but what I don't want you to do is have a bad reputation because you're not doing the things you said you were going to do, and then vice versa, right? Because our our our reputation, our names matter, and and I think we've got to be men of our word, right? And that's something that's very important. And then when I come back to obedience, I I was thinking humility, right? A lot of people need to humble themselves to be and to like you said, yes. Unfortunately, our culture coins the term obedience possibly as being a submissive posture, yeah. But no, man, at the end of the day, I'm a loyal husband, not out of submission, out of freaking I chose I choose to be loyal, right? I am way more blessed than a lot of other people. I'm not submitting, I'm I'm a hundred percent obedient to the to the to the vows that we made, to to the to the choices we made, all these things. Um, but I think people they they get so worried about doing one thing, saying one thing, and don't recognize that they're not aligned with God, they're probably not praying on the things that they're doing, and they don't recognize that the obedience is going to directly hopefully correlate to the blessings that they're going to receive and the on the on the other side of that. And because in there somewhere is also faith, right? You got to have faith that the energy you're putting into obedience has a purpose, right? And it's you're not just doing it blindly, you're doing it because you you believe in what you're asking for, and that the faith is in hope that this is all going to go the right direction. And how do you know it's working? Well, you get blessed, the blessings keep rolling in, right? And then you share the blessings with everybody else because hey, everybody, look at all these blessings. You too could be blessed. Absolutely, figure it out, right? Yeah, um, you know, uh as you've gone on your journey, and then you now you've got kids, right? You you still do you have one? Do you have more than one?

Chris Avery 48:51

So I have a little girl, she little girl, she's almost four, and then we have a little boy that's almost one.

Gary Wise 48:56

Okay, so how do you think uh your journey through all of this has affected your parenting?

Chris Avery 49:05

Oh man, um you know it it's I think as men we always look and we go like, man, we want to make sure this counts. We want to make sure like what we're doing is not just serving one thing in our life, but it's serving multiple things. Uh and so when I look at running because of the challenges, it is humbling. Um, overcoming shin splints for almost a full year, herdias, blown out shoulders, financial struggles, kids trying to, you know, all of it. It refines you. Because the the the breaking is for the remaking, right? And and and it's to realign. So to me, when I look at like being a dad with the running, man, I I was I I had gotten better, but I was still, you know, had that anger thing that would just pop up and tonality that would pop up, and when you have a little girl, they're already sensitive to your tonality, and so they're even, you know, my little girl's very soft and I love it, but it for me it's harder to remember that, you know. Um man, but there is a peace that you have when you can go out no matter what's happening, you can go for a run and you can process, you can go for a run and get like out in nature, you can go for a run and connect to God. And going out and doing those type of things gives you this internal peace. It also gives you an understanding when you go through those hard things, like a lot of things we think matter, they don't really matter. And the things that are made of matter don't matter, but the things that aren't made to matter matter the most. And those are the spiritual and the relationships that you have. And so to me, realizing like whatever struggle is happening at the time, I also just from again running, like I realize that if I give it about 48 hours, my my day will at least change, like my attitude, my problem will change at least by one percent. But a lot of times it's it's like 180 or 160 that it changes. But I just have to give it that, I have to have that pace and that grace. And when I have like the the pace is as far as patience and the grace, like it's just it's just easier to manage the kids. You realize like the little kids, they're failing just like you. I'm getting out and running every day, like a run slower one day than another. Man, a run one day is half walk, half run, or one day I'm running in slides because I have a huge blister on the side of my foot. Same thing for those little kids. They're just trying to figure it out one step at a time. They're just trying to figure out like how they just got thrown it, thrust into this world, and they're trying to figure it out.

Gary Wise 51:48

Right.

Chris Avery 51:48

And so for me, it just is giving me more grace, it's giving me more understanding, it's giving me patience and the ability to slow down. And I will say this like when I go run, I'm not out there to run the wrecker pace. Like, I'll stop by a river and I'll pray and meditate. Like my little ones will come out and I'll go run down by the river, and there's a playground, like they'll come down and they'll play, and I'll I'll play with them. Right. And so the other pieces give me as a father is just this unbelievable time and this unbelievable way to connect with my kids. That if I was at a nine to five, or if I was just working hard and grinding and out, and I wasn't doing something like this, I would see my kids way less, and our connection would just be way less. And and and I'll be honest, one of my favorite parts is my little girl. I've been running, so I she was born in April. I would I started in January of the same year. So I've been running her whole life. So when she see like she'll sit there and see me and she'll go like, Daddy, go running. Like, she just knows, she just knows I'm going running, and she knows that's part of her life, and she'll come over and help me tie my shoes, and she just goes, like, she sees dad go run every day, and it's just it's been a continued progression in her life, and it's fun to see that because she sees something that is different than what most people are doing, and I want her to see that.

Gary Wise 53:05

Thank you for that. And and I asked because you know, parenting is such a complicated leadership role, right? I mean, there's husband, there's wife, there's son, there's husband. You know, always think about parent, dad is just it's it's all it's complicated, right? And you you don't really know what you're doing. I mean, at the end of it all, like you you've got a four-year-old, brother. You don't know how many times I've asked people, like, what is it like to have an adult kid? Like, what does that feel like? Yeah, you know, because uh my kids went uh going up. I mean, he's 18 now, and I'm still not sure what this is, how this is supposed to be, or what not gonna be. And you're the dad forever, right? I'm never not gonna be your dad, and so but it's such an interesting journey. Uh, I was just curious because a lot of parents are out there. I have a lot of parents that listen to this podcast from like the kids that I teach in my school, and I parenting teenagers or young, young children are is hard, you know, and they have different complexities, right? When when when they're you're little and they can't move a whole lot, it seems like it's an easy time, but ultimately there was a lot of stress because it was new. Then they get older, now they can maneuver and oh my god, now I got the terrible twos or the threes, the school's coming and the checklist. And are you keeping up with all the other kids developmentally and all this stress and all these things, right? And so I I was just definitely curious, and and I like where you said that it was giving you grace. And I also like the piece where you said that well, at least what I heard was you you had you were letting time digest a little bit more before you made something be a crisis, right? And yeah, I learned that in the military. Um we only move fast when somebody's life is on the line. If there's nobody at risk of dying, we're gonna take the time that we need methodically, we're gonna make the maneuver, right? We're gonna do the thing we're going to do at the appropriate at our time and place, right? That's what we're gonna do, unless somebody's not at risk of dying, and then we're going to go and we're gonna follow our PPRs, we're gonna follow the things that we already gamed out, and then oh, by the way, we might take some risk because it's you know, the enemy always gets a vote and it's not always safe, right? But at that time it's acceptable and away we go. And living life, there's always going to be some risk out there, there's always going to be some challenges, but one of the blessings of parenting kids is hopefully you can keep them as safe as possible for as long as possible so they have the preparation to live their own life. So amazing stuff there.

Chris Avery 55:27

Do you I just want to say just two things real quick if it's okay? I want to say, like, I think you said something again in your the podcast that I was listening to that was really great, and everybody should go listen to that podcast if you haven't listened to it. Do you remember what the title of it was? I'm trying to remember off the top of my head.

Gary Wise 55:40

Perseverance as a blueprint or something like that. But but my intent for that podcast was perseverance over resilience, because I just I feel like I I don't mind getting up off the deck, but I would sure rather not always get knocked on my on my butt, right? Yeah, I'd rather lean into life and persevere. Yeah.

Perseverance Over Resilience

Chris Avery 55:59

So, you know, one thing I really learned, and this is it was it's such a challenge for me. Like my, you know, in my past, I would handle everything by like yelling and arguing, and I was just an aggressive young man and aggressive kid. I don't think that's different from too many men, you know, uh, especially young men. But as I've gotten older, and really just since I've had my kids, I mean, I I've had to learn how to calm my central nervous system. And I've learned how I've had to learn how to regulate myself so much better than I ever did. Because the truth of the matter, when we get mad with our kids, like it's only because whatever they're doing, we want to push against and they want to push against us, and so we get unregulated and we then go to war. Yeah, when I can look at my little girl and go like, okay, what's the problem? How do we now look at the problem together? So it's a me and it's instead of me versus her, it's a we thing, and we're working on the problem. That's helpful. And then I all like I will say though, I'm far from perfect, and I screw this up all the time, and I just have to keep remembering that I like one of my favorite things, and this wasn't for a long time, this has been the last 10 years, just but I I love saying sorry, like I love saying sorry to somebody because it doesn't necessarily mean I was wrong, but it means like I love our peace, I love our relationship, and I love like kindness together more than I love being right or trying to like tell somebody that they were wrong and I was right or vice versa. And so to me, like just having that built-in ability to go, like, man, hey, baby girl, I'm because I call my little girl, baby girl, baby girl, I'm sorry. You know, I'm sorry, dad screwed up here. He could have like you were having fun, I didn't even understand the situation that you were doing. I got, you know, I was trying to tell you what to do. I apologize, I got upset and I shouldn't have done it. And and I want her to see that side of it too. Because when she goes out in the real world, she's not gonna have two parents that are like, Oh, hey, we're so nice, and we treat it, like you're gonna go to the real world where people get pissed and they yell at you and they curse at you and they treat you like crap. And if you can't, as you said in that video, like if you're not prepared to handle that, like I gotta let you fall. And that's one thing that's running's given me too is I've fallen so many times and I finished every day, but I've still fallen, you know, not like physically, but just mentally, spiritually, like just in every way I've fallen because the weakness shows up because it's so hard, right? And so, just like parenting, so hard. So, I think if you're a parent out there, man, grace is one of my favorite words. I never knew it. I had high expectations, no grace, and that destroyed me. But if we're if we're men of excellence, which we are, we have to have high expectations and high grace for ourselves and those around us.

Gary Wise 58:36

Definitely, and and I will tell you, it is watching my like my younger son plays flag football, and it's so for hard for me to sit on the sidelines and watch someone else coach my kid, right? Because I have my opinions, my wife has her opinions, but I didn't want to be the coach. I don't got time, I don't got the bandwidth, I don't got the whatever it is, right? And I've I've coached them in the past, I didn't coach this season. But raising children that can be coached by another person is very important as so because they have got to learn do they appreciate the coach's style? Do they like what the coach is teaching? Not every coach is gonna be for them, right? Not everyone's gonna teach them the things they want to learn, but there are places you got to go in this world that there are people you got to get through, those gatekeepers, if you will, that have opportunities that you want to get access to, but you've got to persevere through them.

Chris Avery 59:30

Absolutely.

Rapid Fire: Leadership And Tech

Gary Wise 59:31

And then the other piece of that is you know, throughout my career, I would people would they would be amazed at my ability to there, they I've had young sailors draw pictures of me that was like me angry and me smiling because they never knew which version they were gonna get, right? And they were like, How can you go from yelling at us to laughing with us? And I was like, Because it's never personal for me, man. Like, you don't understand. Like, this is I'm not using your first name, we're not taking away birthdays. And oh, by the way, if you're not in a position of attention, you got a chance to get a word and edgewise, I need you to speak, like get in the conversation, but you've got to be as enthusiastic about the conversation as I am. If you let me steamroll you, I will win. And I because again, it's when you're in a world, especially like the military, there's not always a lot of time, there's not always a lot of uh there's not always a lot of choice, right? We're either going left or we're going right. So if you got an if you got information, I need to know, yeah, say the word, bro. Say it now. And if I need to ask you to speak, I don't need you on my team. I need people that want to raise their hand and get their perspective out there. And then I think as parents, because again, I've got two boys. Um it's hard watching my sons. I don't have any daughter, I've got a bunch of bonus daughters at work, right? That's what they all say. I got a whole bunch of bonus daughters, and they're little pistols, bro. My my my I've been leading females since of 2010. Okay, and I will tell you what, they are pistols, they freaking get it done. It is amazing. Uh, that being, I mean, and so I'm very proud of them. But that being said, it's when I see the cad either the the sailors I've raised, the cadets that I'm led, or even my own sons, when I see them get put under stress, God, it breaks my heart. But I'm just I'm staying out of the way because I'm just like, come on, man, you can do it, rally. Don't don't just cry, don't just quit, don't just choke. Because what that they, if they can make it, they will hopefully become an adult that will not falter. And for me, it's especially like you said earlier, where the devil's the lawyer that's gonna bring up all the things that's gonna say you don't deserve forgiveness or whatever it is. I don't want these young ones to grow up one day and be at college or be in some place where they're being put to their first real challenge and them not have that strength to persevere through that, yeah. Right, and make the right choice, or at a minimum, if they make the wrong choice, don't be afraid to come have that conversation with your mom, your dad, or God and get right, right? Get right, get back on track, recognize none of us are perfect. Uh, you don't have to always tell the world, you can just tell God and figure it out, right? And then and then and get back on track, right? You don't have to always go broadcast it on social media and make a mistake. Happy the worst thing ever. Oh my goodness, somebody, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've all seen those. Yeah, just get with God, figure it out, don't keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result, bro. Don't be freaking crazy, and and maybe we'll be okay. And that's those are the things that I think about, and it's it's scary, you know. It is scary, and and you know, like I know, there are people out there that are mean, they're just mean, right? And they're and they're not nice, they're they're even possible probably evil, right? In in their sense, and you've got to be able to get through them, right? I'm not gonna say the word defeat them because I'm not always into all that. I just I'm gonna work through you, bro. I'm gonna work through you, win you over, or at a minimum, not let you harm me and my team as I gotta keep on moving in life. I'm not even gonna take the time to cut your head off and worry about it because that's just too much negative energy, yeah. Um, bro, hey man, I really appreciate the time. You know what I do the end of my podcast, I do like some rapid question stuff, and I would like to do it with you because I think you would throw some good answers out there. So, um, when you look back on your life, what do you think was the biggest what do you think is the biggest, or let's not even say your life, let's just say right now in general. What do you see as one of the biggest leadership challenges for for organizations today? Right in the world of technology. What do you what do you see as like the biggest leadership challenge?

Chris Avery 1:03:46

Yeah, I think it is two things. One, listening. So I think people are not good observers, and I mean listening to themselves first. They just tend to kind of just flow through their natural habits and flow through their natural stream of life, and there's no like putting a rock in it to see how the flow goes differently. So I think observing ourselves and observing others uh with an open perspective is one of the biggest challenges to leadership because we already have our prejudgments and we're not coming in as an open loop, we're coming in as a closed loop and trying to solve something. And if you like one of my favorite sayings is when you know, you don't grow, but when you don't know, you grow. And most of us want to present, especially as a leader, like I know. But the truth is, most of us know far less than we know. So if we just act like we don't know and we sit back, we'll actually learn something and actually come up with a new perspective of the of our world of our map.

Gary Wise 1:04:45

Yep, humble that's money. Always approach it like it's a new day, right? New opportunity, try to have a learning mentality and leverage your people, right? Because you may not know, but they possibly probably do. Just verify that it's the right thing and not tribal knowledge, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well, that's how we've always done it. Ah, yeah, yeah. All right, here we go. Yep, okay. So, what's a piece of advice you would give to somebody struggling uh with organizational challenges, right? They don't feel like they're being valued in their family or in their workplace or in their in their social structure. What would you offer to that person as advice?

Chris Avery 1:05:22

Yeah, you're a victim. So stop it. Because you are a victim, like you're already putting yourself in the victim mode. Somebody's a perpetrator on you. So I go with this because I learned this years ago, and it's one of them one of the things I consider money, like in the bank. If I think about something, a discussion, something that happened between me and another person, if I think about it more than two times, I have a conversation. So you got to have courageous conversations, a lot more of them. Because the challenges with marriages, not enough courageous conversations. The reason money makes people divorce, not enough courageous conversations. The reason we cheat on each other, not enough courageous conversations. The reason we, you know, talk trash about each other behind our backs, not enough courageous conversations. That's all you got to do is start stabbing people in the front. Let's have a courageous conversation. I'm here to learn, I'm here to be an open book, right? I'm here to stab you from the front. Here's what I think, but really I want to know what you think. So you tell me what happened first, right? I'll first receive, then I'll then I'll return the serve. But I want to know, and it's courageous conversations.

Gary Wise 1:06:18

Oh my god, I love everything about that. First of all, if you've not yet coined the term courageous conversation, do so immediately. You got it. That needs to be like a coke symbol, but courageous conversations on a t-shirt, right? You got it. That's that's amazing. And I uh I used to tell people on the ship, you know, I'm like a ninja turtle. People are trying to stab me in the back, but they can't get through my turtle shell. But every once in a while I turn around and let them stab me in the front because I like to look them in their eyes, you know. I love that, you know, but to that point, right? I would much rather have a direct conversation vice, have a bunch of passive crap going around around me behind me. That's that's all just mucking up the energy in the world, right? Um, and it is scary to have sensitive conversations, and it but you know it's it's part of life, and learning how to communicate matters. And I love the other piece that you talked about earlier about knowing how you're being perceived or what your weak areas possibly probably are, and how you can continue to grow, right? I think those go just together big time, and also the whole victim thing, right? The end of the day, you probably asked to be there, right? I I don't want you on my team if you don't want to be a team player, but part of being a team player is having courageous conversations. Let's go, bro. Let's go, you can suit up, yeah. Young guns, let's go. All right, um, love it. Um, how do you see uh the future evolving when it comes to people and technology? Do you think that plays a role in the future, or do you think that technology it's it's it's a it's a leverage tool, but it's never going to really take away the the black and white of what it takes to help people?

Chris Avery 1:08:02

Yeah, I'll say it like this is money good or bad? I'll say it depends on who holds it. So will will AI, will technology, of course it will. It'll always influence us, it'll always be a useful tool, but it can also use us as a tool. And I think that's the challenge right now with technology, is most people are getting used by it. It's mastering them. And the question is, how do we learn how to master ourselves so things don't master us? And part of that is God. So to me, I I think certainly will play, yeah. And it will play the people that get played because they're be because they're wanting to be played, right? It's like scripture says in there with the part where it's like, why is so in the scripture says this group is the mockers. Why are they the mockers? Because they mock. This group's the disbelievers. Why are they the disbelievers? Because they disbelieve, right? What these people are the believers. Why? Because they believe. Like people are gonna be people. The technology doesn't change the people, it just gives them a new tool or new outlet to be that person. So we're gonna keep carrying those traits until we change as human beings.

Values, Heritage, And Teamwork

Gary Wise 1:09:02

I think it's I think everything you said is true, and I to I concur with you. I think technology is gonna become the next scapegoat as to why you can't do something. And when I was on the ship, I we I was a firefighter for a lot of years, and I would teach the sailors like, look, once the power's out, it's 1945, bro. It's not there's no that fire doesn't care how cool your iPad is or whatever. We're in the middle of the ocean, the ship's on fire, there's no power, and we got to put the wet stuff on the red stuff, so we're not gonna go home. And it might as well be 1945, except for our personal protective equipment is a lot better in 2026. So I have been, but guess what? They were still putting the fire out way back then when they were making it home. So you can get it done, just quit coming up with excuses as to why it's more complicated. Because realistically, there's a lot of ways it's a lot more simple. On the reverse, I do think we carry around a lot of stress. A lot of us, especially the ones that are involved in social media spaces or whatever it is, because there's a lot of communications that are happening that aren't always real, but it feels like it, right? And your brain believes it needed to be real because your brain will lie to you. Your brain will lie to you. Yeah, okay. Here come some of the fun ones. Uh, on the weekends on the ship, we would always have a chance to eat either with pizza and chicken wings. If I was to offer you one of those, which one would you pick? Pizza or the wings?

Chris Avery 1:10:29

Oh man, that's a tough one. Jeez, this is not rapid fire.

Gary Wise 1:10:32

Hold on, I gotta think about this for a second. Uh, I'm going with pizza. Pizza, got it. Okay, so on the ship we have at birthing, which is where we all live, right? It's where we all sleep. And people traditionally like the birthing because once you get the birthing clean, you can take a nap, right? No one's looking for you in the birthing, it's air conditioned, the lights are usually off. All the work is happening somewhere else. So you're never gonna tell anybody you're done cleaning the birthing right away. On the reverse, a working party is where you send people like tributes, like on freaking the you know, that movie about catness and all the other tributes. You got to send tributes to the working party, and they're gonna hump all the food on board, they're gonna be in the freezer putting all the food away. And but but what's fun about the working party is it's simple labor, right? There's not a lot of stress, yeah, there's not a lot of extra thinking, you're just doing the work for that period of time. And you typically get it's pretty fun, right? There's a lot of there's a lot of coking and joke, because usually the guys that are paid tribute are usually rambunctious, right? They're not always the best people. If I gave you a choice, would you rather go to the birthing or would you rather go to the working party? Which one working party?

Chris Avery 1:11:46

Working party, handy. No doubt. It'd be more fun, it'd be more work, and it would it would just make the digo, everything would be better. Screw them out, man.

Gary Wise 1:11:54

I'm telling you, as people answer this question, I get it, I get a chance to see into their soul, right? Because I bet you for me as a leader. I know okay, I know I could be either or depending upon the day, right? Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah, all right. We're gonna watch a movie. Would you rather watch a De Niro movie or a Pacino movie?

Chris Avery 1:12:10

Ooh, man, that really depends on which one. Dang, that's a good one. I'm gonna go al Pacino. Okay, I would think I would go De Niro, but I'm gonna go al Pacino.

Gary Wise 1:12:21

I love it. Looking back on your life so far. Do you have a favorite place that you've ever traveled to?

Chris Avery 1:12:28

Oh man, yeah, Bermuda. Hands down, like incredible. I mean, you know, obviously they have a ton of tourists coming through there, but incredible people. Um, incredible, very, very small island, very isolated. Just the water was beautiful, the people were beautiful, the land was beautiful, the food was great, just everything about it was exceptional. You can there's one road that goes around the whole island, you feel very connected and grounded there. I think that's definitely the best place I've ever traveled to.

Gary Wise 1:12:58

I get it. I lived on Guam for three years, and it was an amazing island, and so I get that, right? And that vibe is just it's calm.

Chris Avery 1:13:06

Yeah, it's just it's island vibe, bro. It's literally island vibe, you know.

Gary Wise 1:13:10

It's it, it is, it is an amazing place. Yes, Puerto Rico is also pretty good. I've never been to Bermuda, but I gotta get that on my list. Um I I definitely I'm gonna do it for sure. Uh looking back so far and everything you've done. Have do you have one special particular achievement that you're just like that's the one right now that I'm just so proud I did this?

Chris Avery 1:13:33

Uh the marathon with no training. Correct. Just because it it like it it I wouldn't be spiritually where I am, I wouldn't be doing, I don't think any of the things I would have done. And that came from you know simply somebody dropping out, so that was a huge blessing for me. But definitely the marathon with no training is the catalyst for so much of this.

Gary Wise 1:13:53

I love it. Yeah, uh, do you have a favorite movie or television series?

Chris Avery 1:13:59

I do, I do. I'll give you my favorite movie, and probably people are gonna go, What the heck is that movie? It's so old, it's a wonderful life. Absolutely. I love that movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. My favorite.

Gary Wise 1:14:10

I love that movie. That's an amazing. I want I watch it alone though. Nobody else in my family will watch it with me. Oh, I I watch it every holiday season, you know. It's like my reset. It's like my reset. I because as a kid, right? It was always on regular TV. There was no cable, no, it's not it, but it was a family event. Everyone's watching it's a wonderful life. Yeah. Um, and would you rather be independent or on a team?

Chris Avery 1:14:32

On a team. I've done the independent thing, it's not that it's it's not as exciting as it sounds. Um, definitely a team.

Gary Wise 1:14:39

Okay. Do you have a personal leadership philosophy? Is it your four your D's?

Chris Avery 1:14:45

Yeah, yeah. I think the four D's are a great one. I mean, I I will say this. I think it's this think, speak, act. TSA, think, speak act. Like not the TSA you get uh frisked up by and you get the free fill up, you know, on the you know, every Saturday when you travel. Right. Uh but TSA, yeah, think, speak, act. Think, think, so think in sorry, think in belief, speak in trust, act in faith. So if you think with belief, if you speak with trust and then you act in faith, life will change forever. Amazing, hands down.

Gary Wise 1:15:18

I love it. Uh so in the United States Navy, our senior enlisted leadership community is known as the Chiefs Mess, right? We're the chief petty officers community. It's a fraternity, you get initiated into it. Uh, it's a big deal for us, right? And I mean, it's a game changer in your life. And we've got some leadership principles. Uh, the principles are number one is deck plate leadership, which is essentially leadership by example. Number two is institutional or and technical expertise, which means understand the organization you are a part of and understand how to do the job you're supposed to do and and and manage both, right? You don't get to just be a mechanic and be a car salesman, do both parts of the car thing, right?

Chris Avery 1:16:01

Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:16:02

Um, professionalism, which is not just have shiny shoes, but it's also carry yourself appropriately and manage yourself appropriately and be profession. It's a profession of arms, right? We're militants, we're gonna be professionals, but some people think it's just about having you know creases in your uniform. No, you look good when you're supposed to, but also be a professional. Uh, there's character, which you know that one loyalty, uh, there's active communication or be an active communicator, both up and down the chain of command. And then there's a sense of heritage, which is never forget where we come from, right? If I was to ask you which one of those resonates with you the most, which one do you think you would pick?

Chris Avery 1:16:42

Never forget where you came from. It was the last one, man. But yeah, if you if I just think if I forget where I came from, I learned I I went through all that for no reason and I lost all the lessons. And good or bad, there's always lessons to be learned. And so I I think you always remember where you came from because you always have a clearer picture of where you're headed.

Gary Wise 1:17:04

Definitely. And you know, the world, the life that we live is cyclical for some reason. And if you talk to like your mom, your grandparents, somebody else, they may have connected, they may have an understanding as something you're going through because they may have had a similar experience.

Chris Avery 1:17:19

Great point, right?

Gary Wise 1:17:20

And that's another thing for us is never forgetting, you know, to share the our stories with our young ones so they can connect that hey, they used to be teenagers too, or they used to be, you know, here's how we fought fires back in the 90s, or what, or whatever, right?

Chris Avery 1:17:35

Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:17:35

Um, that that for us is very important just because we want to build trust with our people, and part of that trust is again how we do it as believers, we share our our journeys so people can relate. All right, would you rather lead or would you rather follow?

How To Support The Mission

Chris Avery 1:17:50

Ooh, uh, I I personally rather follow. I I I I realize this and I don't know why I do it. I think it's probably for my dad to be honest. But whenever I we're walking in a group, I'm always behind. And it's like I've always like my dad always said he traveled behind to make sure everybody was safe and taken care of. And so, like, I just naturally no matter if you're older or younger, I don't care. I just I sit behind everybody, I travel behind. It's like the wolf, right? Like the I'm not saying I'm an alpha by any means, that's not my point, but like the alpha sits in the back because he wants he needs to keep his view of the field, and if he's in the front, he can't see behind. That's the worst place to be if you're gonna protect. So I say behind so I can make sure everybody gets where we're going safe.

Gary Wise 1:18:30

I'm with you, man. I I I love that, and I agree because sometimes when you're you're the person in the front, you're the first one to get taken out, right? Of course, right? And uh one thing we we go with the chiefs initiation. I would always tell our chief selectees, like, yes, we want to leave from the front, but never forget the rudder's on the back of the ship, right? We steer from the rear. Yeah, so if you you might see the iceberg coming, but you better make sure they get the word back there in the rear to start changing a rudder angle, yeah. Otherwise, we're all about to be swimming in the in the drink, right? And it's gonna suck. Uh and I think depending upon your team, depending upon your abilities, you know, you've got to be able to the best can go both fore, aft, port, starboard, sure, do all the things, right? But I concur, like especially, you know, the old wolf, or what was that? What was that thing? Uh uh the old bull and the young bull, right? And the old bulls always walk on down to take our time, and when we get down there, we'll do whatever we gotta do, right? You have to learn how to let it marinate a little bit, brother. Don't rush and see the danger coming. Okay, Chris, man, how can people best support you as you're on your journey? Like, do you have a way that people, if they hear this story and it resonates, that they can either reach reach out to you, look you up, donate to support you on your journey? What can I best do to help you with that? Can you hear me?

Chris Avery 1:20:30

Can I hear can you hear me now? I can hear you now, yeah. It's so much better when I don't mute you. I don't know how I muted you, but somehow my button got pushed. I apologize. It's all good, man.

Gary Wise 1:20:37

It's all good. That's that's how this happens. So yeah, I'd asked you how can people best support you in any way?

Chris Avery 1:20:43

Yeah. So uh somebody we we've been doing podcasts, and somebody brought up like, man, maybe people want to give money. And so we have set up a GoFundMe account that we'll have go live here in the next few days. If you want to support, like, hey, here's some new runny shoes, or here's towards some sunglasses, and you know, we'll show you where we're using the money so you can be part of it, right? It's not it's not a you thing, it's not a me thing, it's a we thing. Um, you can go to Chris Runs America. We have a newsletter there. You can get in contact with us through email there if you want as well. Um, or if you want to follow us on social media, that's an option as well. Chris Runs America or Chris Avery coaching.

Gary Wise 1:21:18

Okay, love it. I will make sure that I get all that put into my packaging as well. Get that word out. I hope that you get I have no doubt you're gonna get everything you need to make this thing happen, man. I just got it. You're I have no doubt your God's not gonna let you down.

Chris Avery 1:21:33

I appreciate it.

Gary Wise 1:21:34

Be careful what you wish for because you might just like get it, right?

Chris Avery 1:21:37

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Gary Wise 1:21:38

Are you gonna live stream while you're running?

Streaming The Run And Closing

Chris Avery 1:21:40

Uh, yeah. So we'll do some live streaming through the social media, you know, like Instagram, TikTok, uh, Facebook, stuff like that. And then so that'll be like day in, day out, and then we'll have a weekly wrap-up uh QA, you know, also put together from the whole week of the struggles and the successes, and we'll edit it down for about like an hour episode, like a weekly episode for people on YouTube as well.

Gary Wise 1:22:04

Amazing, awesome. Well, Chris man, I really appreciate you taking the time to share your story and to just drop all these pearls of wisdom on us, bro. It's been a great conversation.

Chris Avery 1:22:14

Yeah, heck yeah.

Gary Wise 1:22:15

If there's ever anything that can do more for you and help you out, uh let me know. And don't go far. I'm gonna wrap this up here, though, so we can get this to be done, okay?

Chris Avery 1:22:24

Sound good.

Gary Wise 1:22:25

I appreciate you, man. Thank you, Gary. Yes, sir. All right, everybody. If you like the words coming out of our mouth and you like the energy, please like, follow, subscribe us. Words from the wise. Thank you.