The Swim Call Stunt That Ended Up Building A Master Chief

One risky moment can break your body, and a single email can build your future. Jason Brown joins me to trace a Navy journey that starts with a teenager from Southern California who knows he needs a way out and a way up, then turns into a decades-long lesson in resilience, mentorship, and leadership under pressure. If you care about Navy career development, military mentorship, or what it really takes to grow into a senior enlisted leader, this conversation hits home fast.

We talk about the unglamorous but decisive stuff: learning how advancement works when nobody teaches you, asking better questions, and finding mentors who share information instead of gatekeeping it. Jason breaks down how he chose the Navy, how he landed in the damage controlman community, and how boot camp taught him an early lesson about leadership and loneliness when peers turn on you the moment you’re responsible for them.

Then the story turns hard. A swim call accident nearly ends his career, and the recovery tests his discipline, family life, and identity. From there we get into shipyard realities, big deck culture, and why some platforms push DC sailors to the edge. Jason also explains how a “sideways” move into the Chiefs mess as mess caterer became a career accelerant, plus what he learned serving at the Naval Academy in an environment built around constant learning and accountability.

If you want practical takeaways on resilience, owning your decisions, using opportunities wisely, and leading from the deck plates, press play. Subscribe, share this with a sailor who needs it, and leave a review with the leadership lesson that stuck with you most.

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Gary Wise 0:28

All right, everybody, how are you doing? Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, whatever time it is you're listening to us today. It's Gary once again, Words from the Wise. And today I have uh, you know, I have a very special guest on the show with me today. I've been working through my career trying to reconnect with people that really made an impact, you know, and I've had some very special guests on. I've got a few more episodes coming that have already been recorded. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, surprising y'all with them. But today, I have a special guest. This is a gentleman who uh I reached out to him when I was a chief petty officer once upon a time. He was a senior chief damage control man. And I remember just I was looking for mentorship, I was looking for wisdom, just trying to find people that can help me figure this thing out. And we've stayed connected throughout our careers. And so without further ado, let me welcome to the stage uh a man by the ghost by the name of Mr. Jason Brown. Jason, what's up, bro? How you doing? Hey, good morning, good morning from Rhode Island. Oh, yeah, good morning from Rhode Island. You know, I've only been to Rhode Island twice. I went there for SEA and I went there for CMC school. So I always was honored to go there because I felt like as a surface sailor, it's like the SWO Mecca is what I always heard, right? That's like where all the SWOs go. So what's it like being stationed in Rhode Island, bro?

Jason Brown 1:56

Uh well it's it is, I would say it's uh it's a unique opportunity because uh there is a lot of learning concentrated here because you have OCS. So where the the young folks come to become an officer straight from like Rotsi or College, or you have uh the LDL schools up here, uh all the doctors and dentists and chaplains come up here to become an officer, and then you have the war college, so it's just like a it is a a mecca of knowledge here, right? Past, present, future. You know, the you know, the uh what was the ship that was just in the Red Sea last year? Um, did a bunch of great stuff out there. It's not coming to mind right now, but they came up here and they debriefed everything that was going on in the Red Sea with the drones and all that. And the ship was up here, so it's just a constant place of learning. So that's kind of neat. You know, you get to interact with a lot of very smart people in them in the military, in the navy. Um, so yeah, it's it's a privilege to be here.

Mentorship Through Cold Emails

Gary Wise 3:03

I I can only imagine. You know, it was on it was once upon a time. I remember when I went up there, I was super inspired, and I thought, like, man, how much fun would it be to get to always have these conversations about leadership with people and to have to pick to pick apart uh what went right, what went wrong, and and maybe do it in a space where you're not really worried about people judging, but people wanting to all learn how we can do it better, right? Yeah, absolutely. So it's amazing. Okay, so again, once upon a time, and I'm thinking the year was probably around 2009, 2008, right? I was a young chief, damage control chief, and I didn't have a lot of mentors in our community, right? I just I I didn't, I was figuring it out. Like I had my chief on the ship that I made chief on, and he was the guy that was like, Oh, you'll make it when you get older. You don't, you're too young, right? That was his uh feedback to me, and then I made chief, and he had said I wasn't gonna make chief because I was too junior, and I was like, Well, wow, okay. Then I made chief, so I'm thinking maybe he doesn't know what he's talking about all the way, right? Right? I go to a float training group San Diego, and I meet all these DC chiefs that are all telling me, oh, your career's screwed, you're in the graveyard, this is the bone yard, you know. And and and I'm hearing all this feedback from people, and I'm just thinking to myself, like, I got a wife, I got a kid, like I gotta make this work, bro. Like, I'm not happy to just sit around and wait for 14 years to come when I've only got 10 years in right now, right? Like, four years seems to take a long time. Do I go LDO? Do I go warrant? Like, what do I do? And I learned about Naval Personnel Command's website, right? Stumbled into that, right? No one really taught me this stuff, right? I just kind of looked it up, right? I remember when I made chief petty officer, I didn't even know there was a list published that the whole world could see it. I didn't know, no one had ever told me, right? I'm just learning these things kind of through through experience. But I found all the advancements for all like the master chiefs, the senior chiefs, and truth be told, I think it was goat locker that I found him the first time, right? Remember that goat locker website, like goatlocker.org, whatever. I think I was on there and I was pulling down all the lists, and then I'm like doing the math, and I'm literally figuring out like, oh, he made chief here, and then two years later he made senior chief there. Like, I need to learn this guy. Who's this guy? Right. And then I'm on like the I'm on the DOD white pages, like looking for email addresses and such, you know. And I and I I emailed a few of you guys, and your Kaz Bowski was one guy for sure, and you were the other guy. And I remember emailing me, like, hey man, my name is Gary. I know how did you make CHG first time up? Like, oh my god. And the one thing I've told people throughout my career when I tell this story is the common denominator is the guys like you were always willing to share information. You weren't gatekeeping, you weren't trying to hold me out. And I always did the same thing for other people from that point going forward. Anyone would find me and be like, How did you do X, Y, or Z? I would share. I used to keep all my emails on a PDF. And if you asked the right question, I'd give them all to you, right? If you didn't ask the right question, I wouldn't just offer them up freely. But if you ask the right question, I'd give you, I'd give you everything. And so I want to thank you for being a mentor for me when I was I was fishing for mentors, right? I was looking for people to help me learn how to fish, bro. And brother, you gave me you gave me a hook, you gave me some string, you gave me a you gave me a pole, and then I went to work fishing, right? So thank you so much, Jason, and thank you for taking the time to be here today, brother. I appreciate you, man.

Jason Brown 6:58

Yeah, man, I'm glad to be here, man. I remember that. It's so funny you bring that up because I haven't thought about that since uh since we reconnected, but I I I want to I want to disagree with you on one one aspect because I remember how I felt when you reached out to me. I remember I was I was at the Naval Academy, I was a company SCL, and you email me like out of the blue. I just get this random email from you. And I remember seeing the email, and I just remember feeling a sense of just impressed. I was like, wow, like who is this guy that he's just blindly emailing me? I don't know who he is, asking these questions that were very insightful. And I was like, oh wow. So I've always, you know, been the person that is willing to help someone help themselves, right? It's easier to help someone out of the ditch when they're reaching their hand out of the ditch. And I got the sense from reading your email, I I can I can literally see it right now. Like it was a it was a very significant moment. I was so impressed that you just email me just very good questions. And I remember writing gladly writing back, and I I probably wrote too much, but I was like, whatever. Um, I remember that, man. It was very impressive. And and all the things you just mentioned, like is a good idea of of how difficult it was to do that. Because now you can just we can just talk to our phone and say, I can say, hey, give me this, and Siri's gonna tell me stuff. But back in like 2008, 2009, it wasn't that simple. You had to actually do some work. So the fact that you, I mean, uh, you just listed a few things you had to do, like that took a lot of tenacity. And so, man, uh hats off to you, man. I was impressed. I'm still impressed. But uh, yeah, man, what a cool thing. And so the one thing I would disagree with to my to answer my point there is uh you were already fishing, man. You already had your hook, you already you you were just casting lines, man, and uh and you caught me. And so good on you, man. You know, you yeah, you had what it took, man.

Gary Wise 9:06

No, and I appreciate that. You know, I remember uh feeling like people didn't understand me when I was younger, right? As a young chief petty officer. I felt like everybody was always telling me, Gary, you're doing too much, Gary, you're trying too hard. I remember I came in the mess to make him chief, and I went on from second-class petty officer to chief petty officer on one ship. And so I did have some complications, I felt like because a lot of these chiefs raised me, right? I knew them as DC two wise and DC one wise, and now I'm in the mess with them, and we're eating at the table, and they're on me about doing too much. And I'm like, brother, like why would I stop what who I've been just because I made chief? I'm sorry if it makes you uncomfortable, but I'm I've got other things I'm trying to figure out. And I remember feeling like, why am I not understood by people that are supposed to be my my peers, right? And I didn't know if it was because I was younger than they were, than they were, because I was, right? I was much younger. You know, me and my wife would go to events and we'd have a newborn baby, and they all had like 12-year-olds, right? Yeah, and we we always felt like maybe it was because I was younger, maybe it was because I was meant to become an officer. I didn't know. And then what I found was there were other people like me out there in the world. I just had to go out and find them. And then as I found them, I felt validated, like, okay, I'm not crazy. And when I would get you, when I got your email back, when I got Kazas back, and you guys gave me good, solid feedback and information. And the other thing was it wasn't competitive, right? Because other people would be competing with me and they would like try to keep me from doing something because I would make them feel insecure in a way. And at the time I knew that's what it was, and it'd make me angry, but then I would just I would use that energy to get even more tenacity, right? To get even more fired up. But I learned that eventually uh there were other people out there like me that wanted to see all of us win, and we all could win if we didn't care who got the credit, right? And I've I leveraged that throughout my entire career, and that was the beginning of me becoming who I eventually was, you know, on the carrier tour or as a CMC. But you, you and Mike Kasbowski, without a doubt, and then Mark Weathers were probably the top three from the damn struggle. Mark Weathers, Mark Weathers, bro. Mark changed my life, dude. Yeah, Mark retired in Missouri somewhere, probably riding the four-wheeler in the snow, bro.

Jason Brown 11:40

Right guy, man. I could tell you a story about him later, but yeah, yeah.

Gary Wise 11:44

Mark, Mark was my he, he, him, and Brian Nelson changed my life, man. Uh, for sure. All right, Jason. Let's get into you, dude. So when you were growing up, yeah, you're in you're in New England now, but did you grow up? What part of the states did you grow up?

Jason Brown 12:01

I grew up in Southern California, uh place called San Bernardino, Inland Empire, close to Los Angeles. Yeah, man, the IE, bro.

Gary Wise 12:09

So, how amazing is it you're living in New England now, but you're a kid that grew up on the IE, like culturally, so much different, right?

Feeling Misunderstood As Young Chief

Jason Brown 12:18

Uh, you know, yes, climate-wise, too. Uh, I I really like the East Coast because of the the seasons. I really enjoy just the I feel like up here you get the full embodiment of every season. Like fall is just amazing here. Winter, it's cold, bro. It's yeah, it's it's cold here. We got snow last week, you know. So that's that's pretty neat. And growing up in in an empire, you and it was pretty much summer all the time. And but uh yeah, man, it's pretty cool. Culturally, you know, I would say there are some similarities culturally, but there are definitely some differences. There's a lot of history, you know, American history here. You know, just up the road is an old revolutionary fort. Uh that's pretty cool. But uh yeah, man, it's um it's pretty cool. You know, one of the neatest things, it's gonna sound silly, but you know, when you're a kid and you're like in grade school and when Thanksgiving comes around and you have turkeys on the wall, or you have like pilgrims and Indians and corn and all those things, the imagery that it's associated with with uh Thanksgiving. But in when you grow up in a place like Southern California, there are no turkeys around, right? There are no like holly trees. But when you live in the New England area, you see all these things in real time. It's for a California kid, you're like, oh my gosh, now I understand. Yeah, that's why we do that.

Gary Wise 13:46

Right. No, I agree, man. Okay, I grew up in Utah, and I tell I tell people I go to New England, there's a lot of connections to American history that we just don't have out west. Yes, because our our history is a little bit different, right? And so when you're up, and then and then the other thing is looking at the construction, the way the houses are built, the neighborhoods are built. Yeah, uh, it was it's just a really cool part of our country. And that's one of the great things about America is you could just travel the country and see all kinds of nuances to our fabric. Yeah, and I could probably be happy never leaving the USA again and just traveling our country and finding new places to explore. Um, now, Jason, when you were in high school, right? Because a lot of my I'm a teacher now, I have a lot of high school students, they do listen to the podcast, and a lot of them are trying to figure out life, right? They're trying to figure out what are they gonna do when they grow up, essentially. And it feels weird watching them go from freshman in high school to senior because there's so much that changes in just those four years. And it's weird because as a sailor, I'd get these 18-year-olds and they'd be like little babies. But now as a high school teacher, I'm looking at my 18-year-olds and they're like old people almost in that sense, in that space, right? Because they're they've gone through so much in that's in that era. What were you thinking about as a high school person? Do you remember your thought process when you were going through high school? Were you like super into athletics? Were you like, I'm going to college? How was that for you?

Jason Brown 15:19

You know, so for me, I knew I knew I wasn't gonna go to college. That was pretty evident to me. It just wasn't my path. I wasn't very focused and disciplined in when it came to education at that age. And a lot of that has to do with my home life and upbringing, you know, and and what my parent or parents modeled. You know, in my family, unfortunately, education, higher education just wasn't valued. And there's nothing wrong with that, it just wasn't their path. So for me, the military seemed like the obvious choice. My grandfather was a World War II veteran. He served in Papua New Guinea uh in World War II and was injured and discharged after being injured. And I remember as a young child the stories of his service in in the war and fighting the Japanese during that time. And he still had his bayonet, he had a pistol, he had all kinds of stuff. And he would always talk about it. I remember being as a young, a very young guy, being inspired by his stories and his service. So I just I guess it was in my DNA, you know. My my great-grandfather was a World War I veteran, a decorated World War I veteran in in France. So yeah, definitely it was in my blood. So the military was the obvious route for me. So I enlisted, I actually enlisted the summer before my senior year. Yeah. I walked in, I walked in and said, I sign me up. And uh they uh they actually laughed because I actually went to the recruiting office before I was 16. I think that that time you had to be 16 to enlist in depth. And I walked into the uh, where's this? Maybe it was 17. I can't I can't remember. But I walked in right before the cutoff, and the guy asked me, the recruiter's like, Well, how old are you? And I told him, I think it was 16 actually. I don't know. And I told him, I was like, Well, I'm this age, and he's like, uh, he kind of chuckled and says, Well, when's your birthday? And I said, It's October. He's like, Yeah, come back after your birthday. And I did, I came right back after my birthday, and I was like, sign me up, I'm ready to go. And so I was in the delayed entry program for a very long time. So most, so my my entire senior year, it was clear, it was evident. Like, hey, I'm and I would just tell people, yeah, I'm I'm leaving for the Navy after high school. I'm I'm already signed up, I'm already going. So I had a clear path out of the trajectory I was on, the you know, the life path that I was I was on, and that was my essentially my my my exit out of that.

Southern California Roots And Enlisting

Gary Wise 17:54

Well, you know, well, three things that I took from that right there. Number one, you come from a family of service or veterans, right? And we know, you and I both probably have been access, have give been given this information that we recruit from our own, right? A lot of military personnel come from veteran families, you know, and there and there could be a disconnect between society and those who have never served, and looking at the services being a relative uh option, right? Because when you're a when you're my father was a veteran as well, my grandparents, and so you look at military service as being realistic, right? Because we've got we grew up on those stories and recognizing it. So that's that's one for sure. Two, I hear from a young age, you are a hard charger because there you were before the age of 17, already looking to make a move, right? You're already looking at your options to say, commit, boom, got it. This is where I'm going. I'm gonna go knock on this dude's door and say, How do I get in? Right. And and so there you were as a young person, already had that tenacity or that that idea of making a decision and sticking to it. And then number three, uh, you stuck, you you you saw it all the way through. Okay, how many people commit to something and then awaiting for a year for the late interrog, they'll change their mind like seven different times and try to get out of it or try to change the thing. And you didn't do that. You made the commitment, you stuck it through, and then you, when it was time to go, you rolled. On the reverse, it's such peace of mind because you know this is what I'm doing after high school. I'm not worried about college acceptance letters, I'm not worried about passing the SAT with a certain score, right? All those things were not problems, and I watched these kids get very hard answers during their senior year, right? Because that they they're not as ready for the SATs as they thought they were. Because an A in math does not equal knowledge and in higher level thinking, right? Congratulations, you got an A in a public high school algebra 2 class, but you suck on the SAT because it's a different grading skill, right? And absolutely I tell my students, brother, sister, and if y'all listening to me now, prepare for those SATs and that ASVAB test. Like the test might change your life. And don't just take it like, oh, if I pass, I'm lucky. No, no, you know, take it serious, prepare for it, and try to do good. On the reverse, you were able to pass the ASVAB at a relatively young age and get the score you needed to move forward in your life. Huge. So I'm not surprised to hear your story and to hear the things that you bring to the table because it's pretty common with us, with our community, right? Military personnel. Again, come from a family of veterans, knew what you wanted to do, had the commitment to see it through. Did you know? Were you given the damage control school guarantee and when you enlisted?

Jason Brown 20:51

You know, I had my sights on being, I wanted to be a hospital corpsman. That was what I wanted to do. Actually, let me let me take it back a step. I actually wanted to be a Marine. That's that's what I really wanted to do. And I think a lot of it had to do with uh I saw a movie as a young guy uh by Clenny Swood, Heartbreak Ridge. Oh man, one of my favorite movies as a kid, man. And I think that's what really inspired me. Like, I'm gonna do that. And so the first place I went was the the Marine Recruiter. That's the first place I went. And I at the time I had a stepfather and he went with me. And I remember I went in there and I was like, hey, sign me up. I want to be a Marine. And uh I remember he kind of chuckled, man. I I probably weighed like 150 wet. Right. And he probably looked at me, he's like, that guy's gonna die. He what he made me watch a video about some March and all this, some long March. And I was like, okay, okay. But the truth is at the time, I think I couldn't do more than five push ups. Like, that's no joke, man. I couldn't do more than five push ups. So he probably looked at me, he's like, Yeah, this kid's gonna die in boot camp. So thankfully, my my my stepfather talked me out of it. You know, he kind of said, Hey, we'll we're gonna come back where we can think about it. And he said one thing to me that actually was very wise. He said, Hey, if you serve for four years, what kind of life and work skills are you gonna have from serving in the Marines? And and and I really thought about that. And I was like, Well, you know, I'm probably, you know, probably not a whole lot. He's like, well, let's go talk to all the other services. And then if you still want to be a Marine, then we'll come back and you join the Marines. So I listened. That was very wise because I was like, that's what I'm gonna do. I'm I'm I'm out, I'm doing nothing else. So I listened to him and I went to the different services. I went to the army next. And uh, you know, nothing against the army. Uh, they just had a the recruiter at the time had a bad reputation. So I was already already kind of like, no, I don't want to go in the army based off the reputation, unfortunately. Yeah, and then the Coast Guard, I was just wasn't interested. And then I walked in the Navy office, I didn't even think about the Navy at all. And they had this life-size submarine photo on the wall. It was like, it was so huge. And then they gave me a pamphlet and it talked about traveling and visiting all the different places in the world on deployments. And it, I don't know what it was, man. It was just like, wow, I didn't never even consider that. And then what really hooked me in was just the the rating system and the the job skills that you can earn you can earn and and and uh achieve and the schooling. So that kind of answered the question of my stepfather is what kind of work skills can you can you gain? And so I was like, well, I think the Navy's the viable choice. So I did that. I went with the Navy and never went back to the Marine recruiters. Um, you know, so I wanted to be a Marine. So then the next best thing to be a Marine was be close to the Marines as a corpsman because I knew they would go to they would go in the field with the the Marines. So I was like, that's what I'll do. I'll do, you know, I'll be the corpsman, still get to hang out in the Marines. But when I went to MEPS, you know, they don't tell you, and they don't tell, well, here's for your listeners don't listen, don't always listen to the maps folks because they they tell you what they what you want, what you need to hear, not necessarily what you want to hear. So when I went to go talk to the uh rating assigner, I think. Back then I went to a room, there was a sailor on a computer, and uh he's like, Well, what do you want to do? And I was like, Well, I want to be a hospital corpsman, and he goes, on the computer, and he goes, Well, there's no more, there's there's no more uh billets left for that. And so like my heart sunk, and I was like, What? I can't be a corpsman. What he didn't tell me is like, okay, there's none today. There might be more some tomorrow, but they don't tell you that part, right? So they just kind of let you to believe that, well, you're out of options. So I said, Well, what else what are my other options? And he said, Well, you can be uh uh MM, you can be a damaged control man, and he said, damage control, and I was like, Well, what's that? And he said, Well, it's like a firefighter, and I was like, Oh, and it just so it was firefighter, and my I at the time I didn't know my father, my biological father, and I had never met him at that point, and but I did know that he was a firefighter, so that was kind of like a neat connection, uh, you know. I was like, wow, I can be a firefighter like my biological father that I don't know. Okay, and I was like, that sounds cool, let's do it. And I just pushed the I believe button, and and the rest is history, bro.

Choosing Navy And Becoming A DC

Gary Wise 25:43

Man, I get it. All that, you know, it's funny. My dad was a hospital corpsman, and when he was in the Navy, he told me when I joined the Navy to be anything but an engineer, right? He said, be anything but an engineer. Yeah, and uh I I came in undesignated, but part of why I eventually struck damage control was because I felt like they were closest to emergency medical technicians in the Navy as I could get without going to hospital corps A school and not becoming a hospital corpsman, right? So I could see that connection, uh, wanting to be uh involved with the Marines, wanting to be involved with the corpsmen and seeing how damage control was a was a connection for you because in the civilian sector, firefighters are synonymous with EMTs, medical response personnel, right? And the other thing is the dad piece, right? You know, I've got an 18-year-old son who is now recently committed to go to the Florida State Fire College, and he's been doing the fire rescue mentorship program for about a year now. Okay, and he grew up, his dad was a D seaman, right? He'd come to the ship, go to their repair lockers, put on all the gear. When I was teaching at Surface Warfare Officer School in Norfolk, he'd come to the office and put on, you know, in his mind, I was a firefighter more than I was a master chief or command master chief, right? I don't think when he started seeing my picture on the wall or on the quarter deck of the ship, I don't think that ever mattered more to him than putting on the firefighting gear and being able to see, my dad's a firefighter. Like, I think that was a connection for him. And so when he started making his plans as an adult, firefighting was, you know, he's like, Dad, I don't want to move a lot, so I don't want to join the military because I drug him all over the world.

Jason Brown 27:26

Right. Right.

Gary Wise 27:28

So he's he's happy to stay near the home base, which I'm happy for. But firefighting was a connection for him. So I could see where you, as a young man, um, you know, especially with the biological dad piece. And we may get into this, I don't know if we will or not, but I was adopted at birth and I eventually met my biological parents. And so I could definitely relate to not knowing biological parents and then eventually meeting them and having that process, right? If you um for sure. All right, so you get the damage control school guarantee, you want to become a firefighter, and we're gonna I I chuckle because god, damage control, yeah, it could be firefighting, but it's so much more than that, right? Yes, yes. We don't not everyone they all come in thinking they're gonna be firefighters, and they have no real clue what they signed up for, right? Yeah, but but when you went to boot camp, uh what year was that? Was that 95, 96?

Jason Brown 28:25

94.

Gary Wise 28:27

Woo! 94, you can't do man, yeah, 1994. Okay, so what what did you go during the summer? In the late fall, late fall, okay. So you get on. Was that your first plane? No, it was my second plane ride. Second plane ride, because for a lot of us, it's our like one of our first plane rides. So it's your second plane ride, okay? Because again, now look at your career, look at your life. You've been on a lot of planes, right? But but at that point, at that point, here you are going to the airport as a young man, kind of on your own. What was that day? Do you remember that day going from that to I do?

Jason Brown 29:10

Um, it was uh what the day I left or the day Yeah, the day you went to boot camp. Oh man, I don't know. Uh I don't know if your listeners want to hear there was a bunch of there was because they stuck us in a hotel in San Diego in downtown. God, it's a recipe for disaster, man. They stick a bunch of 18, 19 year olds in a hotel by themselves with no supervision. And so we just get involved in all sorts of mischief that that that day and night. Uh, just uh it's it's almost like anchor man, almost to the T. Like we were roaming the streets, just raising all kinds of heck, man, drinking. We were drinking, you know, underage, doing all that stuff. And I think at one point we were, oh gosh, I'm gonna throwing things off the top of a 10-story building, just being dumb, man. We're being so young, we're young, right? We're so excited, right? So I don't think I slept, but maybe an hour because we're up all night, just raising all kinds of heck. And uh, so to go, I remember going to the airport that morning, I was so tired. And then, and all of us who had gone together that were going together, we fell asleep in the uh gate, like on the floor, and we almost missed our plane because we were so tired. I remember them waking us up, but we're just like laid out. People were probably looking at us like we're bums or something, man. But we were just because we were up all night raising all kinds of heck in downtown San Diego because we're excited, we're going to go starter life and going on an adventure, and uh, so so going and I slept on a plane, and then I get there in uh in uh Chicago, and I was just kind of out of it. I was kind of just I was tired, I was probably hungover if I'm being honest. Yep, and uh so it was kind of all of a blur, and then they they got us, we got in late, and then they put us in some temporary barracks after they marched us around, put us in our our blue PT gear, took away all our clothes. That was that was quite you should you probably spend like two hours talking about that night. Yeah, put us all in a big room and uh make us change our clothes with like a hundred other guys, and uh yeah, so that was kind of a blur. And then, and then of course, you know, I don't know, a couple hours later, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Here comes the trash cans, here comes the strange RECs scaring the crap out of you, waking you up and getting you going. And and I think from that point it was just it's just a blur, man.

Gary Wise 31:50

I you know what I got so much about that story I love though. My favorite kind of resiliency, I'll be honest with you, is those sailors that go out, tear it up the night before, still come in and put in a good day's work the next day. Right. I I I think there's something to that heritage. I and not everybody likes it, not everybody's a fan of that heritage, right? DC three wise, the night I made third-class petty officer striking out of the pit, I was on duty, I snuck off the ship, went to the base club, got drunk as hell, came back to the boat, stood the mid-watch, got a pole iron in the main space, puking in the bilge, right? The third eight came down to relieve me. I'm down there dying. Oh, and I never, you know, I just but I got up the next day and put in my work, right? And yeah, while I I appreciate a lot of the things that have changed in our society with technology and cell phones and all these things, I think there's something to be said to those Americans that could go out and do that, dig deep, and still fight a fire the next day, right? And and not just tap out, not just quit. And I and I when I see people uh struggle with resiliency or struggle with having a hard day or whatever it is, I think back on those moments when you and those kids did that thing and you still made your flight, even though you almost missed. I mean, the the story starts there. And what did you see there? You saw a collective of people that chose to all commit to something. They had a fun day where y'all took risks, and yes, it could have gone violently wrong for you. Yes, right, it could have changed your whole life, yeah, but it didn't. So thank God it worked, right? Worked out.

Jason Brown 33:29

Thank the Lord, yeah.

Boot Camp Lessons On Leadership

Gary Wise 33:31

And then away the journey went, right? And y'all, and you didn't just lay down on the deck at Great Legs and say, I can't do this, start crying as they send me home because you were so tired, right? You stuck it out. And I feel like a lot of people need to hear that it's okay to not be perfect all the time, but it's not okay to just quit, right? And and people, unfortunately, I see it a lot with young people. Um, when it gets hard, they just want to quit, right? Or they want to blame it on a diagnosis, or they want to blame it on what somebody did to them and not take ownership of the decision making that they had to get to that point. And it's what I love about your story, and I share these kinds of stories with my team with my students, because if I would have ever quit at any point in time, the life that I wrote maybe would have never happened.

Jason Brown 34:21

Yeah.

Gary Wise 34:21

Right. And so you can't quit. And so the fact that your Navy journey started off that way for me is priceless, and you never quit, you know, and and you just and it's okay. It's okay. You're not perfect. Look who you are now, but at that point, you were just young and dumb and and and having having a fun moment, right? And so when you do when you look back on boot camp, uh, was it easier than you thought it was going to be, or was it harder than you thought it was gonna be when you look back on it at the end of the whole experience?

Jason Brown 34:52

The e so following all the rules, marching and all that, to me, it came very easy. I had and I did very well, and and I even was even recognized by the I remember I got kind of recognized because every time I got inspected, it was perfect. You know, all the creases and folds I had to do, my bed was always perfect. I remember there was a moment early in boot camp that the that the RDC was like, hmm, you know, like you you're pretty squared away. And they pulled me in the office and they wanted to get and they gave me a leadership assignment. So my hard work, my merit, my discipline, it was evident. And it immediately got me a promotion. What I found hard was my first test was when I made that transition from just being in one of the guys and they put me in a position of leadership, which meant I had to hold people accountable. That was extremely difficult for me because my buddies that were around my bunk that we were always like joking and laughing. They were like, hey man, you're lame now. I remember I remember they were like, I remember there was this one guy, I can see his face, and I it take me while I remember his name, but he I remember him telling me, he's like, Man, you used to be cool, but you're you're you're lame. And and he stopped talking to me, and that and that devastated me. Like I remember it for the first time in my life, I I stepped into a role of responsibility in leadership, and I met my first adversity and disapproval, and that it crushed me inside. And and I looked back at that moment and I didn't, I wasn't mature enough. I was 17. I was still 17 at boot camp. And after about a few times of having a hard time with the leadership experience, I actually went back into the RDC's office sometime later, and and I and I told them I couldn't do it. And and I I because they gave me a little crow, like a third class crow. And I just said I gave it back to them. I I just I wasn't ready. I wasn't mature enough for it. I wasn't ready to accept that uh responsibility of let of leadership that, you know, as we all know, as I found out later, comes. But yeah, that was that's where I really had a hard time.

Gary Wise 37:12

I get it, man. And you know what's so awesome about that is they saw the potential in you, right? And we we learned this in the Navy. I'm sure all branches do it the same way, but I will tell you in the Navy, in particular in the Chiefs mess, uh, we learn to spot talent quickly. At least that's my belief, right? One of the things that I learned throughout my journey was I can almost smell talent on somebody now. I can almost sense it. And I I want to give them opportunities to develop and grow because I know how exciting it's gonna be when they when they recognize those moments. And I've I've seen that play out so many times in the past when I would give somebody an opportunity and they'd want to turn it back in because they wouldn't feel prepared or they wouldn't feel uh they'd feel isolated because it is lonely being a leader, right? And not everybody is always ready for that moment. And how significant is this third-class crow, right? That which we now know is the beginning of your leadership visible signs. But as a boot camp member, it's a huge deal, right? You get this one little silver collar device, and all of a sudden it's a unique identifier that I am different than you are, and I don't even know what that means. And then God, how many people in this world are gonna make fun of somebody for excelling at something, right? Because they're insecure. But what if your buddy had gotten called in and he had got the crow? Right? Would you have called him lame, right? Or would you have made him feel bad or whatever it is? And it is it's so schoolyard, but it is. I brother, I remember one time I'm at a stoplight in Norfolk. I'm a Master Chief Petty Officer, I'm a DC master chief, and this other master chief comes rolling up to the stoplight, and I'm waiting to cross the road. And I see the guy, and I'm like, hey, what's up, bro? How you doing? I'm Gary, nice to meet you, you know, and he's so-and-so. And he was like, Oh, what are you doing here? I was out teaching, but I'm getting ready to go to chip off to go to CMC school. I'm gonna go be a CMC. And he was like, Oh, you're one of those guys. And I was like, I looked at this guy, and I'm five foot six, right? I'm not very tall. I'm a little stocky, dude. I'm not very tall. And this dude's much taller than me. I'm like, are you serious right now, bro? At what time does this stop? Like, I got so annoyed at that moment at this stop. Like, I'm looking at this other mass chief. I'm like, dude, when do we not do this kind of craft to people anymore in our navy? But those kinds of interactions, they unfortunately they never stop, right? I tell this to my students, like, unfortunately, not everyone's always gonna see uh what's going on in your life, and you can't expect them to always understand it, right? But I look back on your experience and I think to myself, like, this is not gonna be Jason's last time dealing with this kind of a challenge. This is only the beginning, right? But it's gonna make a mark. It's gonna make a mark because you're gonna turn that crow in, right? And you're gonna, and you're gonna, but it's also shows uh, I would say, humility and that you're willing to say, I'm willing to go out back out in front of all of them without this crow back on because I wasn't, I'm not ready for it. And you're gonna give it to somebody else, and then they're gonna do the job, and I'm going to watch them either succeed or fail, right? And I'm gonna wonder, could I have done that? Or am I gonna because I mean you have to think that way afterwards, right? Um, so graduating boot camp, when it's all said and done, did you regret turning that crow back in when it was all said and done, or no?

Jason Brown 40:46

I did later. I don't think I fully understood it, but you know, obviously it's impressed on me. I did, I definitely I regretted it later.

Gary Wise 40:56

Yeah, okay. Now, after boot camp, uh, you go to did you go to school in San Francisco?

Jason Brown 41:03

I did, I did.

Gary Wise 41:04

Yeah, Treasure Island, man. Did you? No, I never went to A school. I was unbeatable, man. I but I will tell you, there's there is a swag factor to a DC man that went to Treasure Island, right? My opinion, my opinion, right? I will just tell you coming up as a DC man, the guys that went to Treasure Island were just a little more saltier, in my opinion, than the guys that didn't. Yeah, right. You were just a little more old school, right? You were just a little more sage because you went to this place that was like a haunted base in San Francisco, and you survived the damage-controlled ghosts of the past, right? Like, how was Chasure Island for you? What do you remember about that experience?

Treasure Island And DC Pride

Jason Brown 41:51

You know, it was I think it was uh a good continuation of boot camp because I think we were at the only A school on the island. This the island was a base, it was a functioning base stell, but it was a training hub, similar to like uh fleet training center in Norfolk or something, you know. So it was a training hub. The fleet, the operational fleet was in Oakland, across the Alameda, all that was kind of farther away. So we're an island, so we're we were legitimately isolated on an island in the middle of the Bay of San Francisco. So there was a continuation of being in the military. We didn't have the freedoms that maybe other A schoolers had. We still had to act like the military. So we marched everywhere. We marched to class, we marched to all of our training events, and then I felt like we I was fully immersed in the damage control experience as far as maintenance. We actually did real maintenance, we did uh real training. We had so I felt like when I went to my first ship, because of my experience in San Francisco, I felt like I was I was ready, I was prepared. I knew my rate, I had a good idea how to do maintenance and how to put on gear, and because I fully exercised all that for like it was like six or seven weeks, man. It was a long time. Yeah. And I and I was still a military sailor. We were still very military branding was important to us. We had a we actually had a fleet returney of first class. He was an OS one and he came and he trained and he uh changed rates to damage control. Because I don't know if you recall at the time the damage control rate at that point was still on its on its rebound because the Navy had got rid of the rate for a good amount of time. I don't remember how many years, probably a decade. And around that in the early 90s, they just brought the rate back. So there was still this remnant of other sailors from throughout the fleet flocking the damage control because it was they needed to fill the ranks, and people were making rate very fast. So this OS1 was our class. Leader, and uh he ran us like an RDC man. Yeah. So we yeah, we so we hated him because we're like, we're done with that, you know. But but nonetheless, we were still very much military branding was very important. So I think all that, yeah, I was ready to be a damage controlman.

Gary Wise 44:20

You know, I have so much pride in being a damage control man. I I got there, not not because I struck DC. When I struck DC, it's because I thought they they didn't have a job personally. I was a DCPO, I was undesignated fireman in the pit, and I was like, these dudes have shops, they're watching movies, they're listening to music. Yeah, like I'm doing all their damn maintenance, I'm a damn DCPO, right? That's what I thought. I had no clue about the H F maintenance or the CHT system. I had none of that awareness. I'm in the pit painting hot valve silver, right? That are bubbling as I'm painting them. And so I'm like, I'm gonna come and become a DC man. But as I grow through the ranks and as I learn about the heritage of the carpenter's mates, and as I learn about the heritage of the damage control rate going away and then coming back, I had so much pride in the rate. Um, and then I look at the training that the Navy gives to the people that come out of that community, and I feel like they really miss opportunities. And I would bring this up when I was a swass, because I felt like part of my job at the senior enlisted DC school was to speak on behalf of the community and to help them try to improve it. I'd say, you know, these senior enlisted DC men need leadership training. I'd say almost as much, if not more, than in rate technical training. Because in order for you to succeed on the ship, you've got to inspire everybody to care about damage control.

Jason Brown 45:48

Yeah. Right.

Gary Wise 45:48

And if you if you can't do that, you're gonna fail, right? If you cannot inspire them to want to care about their space readiness to go to sea, right? The the zone inspection program, the safety of the ship and everybody on the ship. Like that level of leadership development training was just not baked into this five-week training that we or eight-week training, we'd give them to run repair locker drills or whatever it was. I don't know if you ever went to DK's or not, but that that training, right? It wasn't it didn't focus enough on leadership for that community. And then when I look at DCA school, not Treasure Island, but what this three and a half, four-week thing was that at Great Lakes, especially when we got away from doing actual maintenance and was doing more of that CBT computer-based training, it just they lost a lot of that, right? Yeah, and the shore duties all went away because the pump shop went away and the water type door shop went away, and they started sending us all to recruiting duty. And I loved recruiting. Thank God, recruiting gave me leadership training, right? Just like you got leadership training from when you went to the Naval Academy, right? Those shore duties were probably significant parts of our career development that helped us be successful on the deck plates as DC Chiefs. Because the guys who didn't get those duty stations struggled because they didn't have those skills that we got from those shore duties, yeah. Right. Um, but I feel like the Navy, if I I still feel like this until they take the damage control rate seriously, and either number one, plus them up like 60% because the amount of PMS they've got to do is incredible, right? Or uh really come up with a smarter strategic way to split the wealth of that maintenance, because maintenance alone will kill you as a damage control man, let alone training and actual preparation for real-world response, right? Because you know, like I know, the majority of our time is spent doing maintenance, right? Even even though theoretically you would think it's about training and and drilling, it's really maintenance. It's so much maintenance, you know. Um, so I'm glad to hear that at your A school experience, you went to the fleet feeling like, hey, I'm prepared to touch equipment. Well, what was your what was your first duty station after after A school? Did you get a picket or did they did they give you orders?

Jason Brown 48:18

So it was based off of merit in the class. So the you know, the the highest the highest GPA in the class got to pick first. I was like somewhere in the middle. Okay, and uh so I picked uh a destroyer out of Charleston, South Carolina. At that time, we still had before before BRAC, which is when they started disassembling, shutting bases down. We still had a bunch of ships in Charleston, South Carolina. There was a naval station there. Yeah. So I picked a destroyer that was there. And uh yeah, I just wanted an adventure. And I joined the military for an adventure, so I didn't want to be in San Diego, I didn't want to be anywhere in California. I wanted to go, and so I chose the furthest place I could that was left available, and Charleston was it. So I went to Charleston, South Carolina, it was a destroyer, and we it was supposed to, it was scheduled to home port shift to Mayport, but then last minute they ended up shifting it to Norfolk. So, but which is which was fine by me. I would I just wanted to be on the East Coast.

Gary Wise 49:19

What was the ship USS Nicholson, DD982? Nicholson, okay, Nicholson. Nicholson, what's the story behind that name of the Nicholson? Do you remember? Was that the I thought the Sullivan's? What was the Nicholson?

Jason Brown 49:31

Man, so which is funny. I I I confused him because I was on the Nicholas and the Nicholson, which is they're very similar in names. Uh Nicholas, I know, is a revolutionary uh type revolutionary war type deal. Oh man, good question, man. I should know that. I'll have to look it up.

Gary Wise 49:51

I'm always curious as to why we name a ship as certain things, right? And then I teach my students about the heritage.

Jason Brown 49:57

Yeah, it it was it was a namesake from a World War II destroyer as well. Okay, man. I now I'm gonna look it up because I don't I don't know, man.

Gary Wise 50:07

I'll look it up too. So do you remember the first day you got to the ship?

First Ship Life In The Yards

Jason Brown 50:11

Absolutely, man. Absolutely, 100%. Uh I got there early, early in the morning. Uh my my LPO picked me up at the airport. I was in my blues, and uh he walked up to me after as I you know got off the uh airplane and he said, Are you DC? I was at E1. Are you DC D S DC Fr Brown? And I'm like, Yes, I am. Um I'm DC one uh Merkel. I'm here to I'm like, cool. So he ended up taking me to his house. He was a great LPO, took me to his house, fed me dinner, had dinner with his wife, and and uh I'm I'm like, how much did I tell you? How much did I not tell you? He ended up taking me to his house, and uh this is a different time, man. Yeah, um, he's like, Hey, do you drink? And I'm like, I'm all like 18. And I'm like, I'm like, is this a test? I'm like, yeah, yeah. So he breaks out Jack Daniels, and we do a couple shots of Jack Daniels. I'm just like, I think back and I'm like, oh my gosh. Yeah, like, oh, it's so crazy. But I was 18 doing uh a shot of Jack Daniels with my LPO at his house before I even checked into the ship. But it was all good, whatever. He we uh I went to bed, he woke me up at 4 a.m. And then we go into uh we go into the ship. I remember I walked into the yard, it was in the yards, and I can see, I can still see right now, it was getting the uh VLS modification. So they used to have these things called ASROCs on the forecastle of the destroyers, and they removed them and they started putting in VLS for Tomahawk missiles. So my ship was undergoing that mod and they were getting the VLS. So when I was walking into the ship for the, well, the barge really, because the ship was under construction, I could see the crane lowering the cage of the VLS launchers literally into the ship as my first day. So that was kind of a cool thing to see. And then I checked into the barge, and there was this guy who was on watch. I still talked to this guy today. His name is Shane. Uh, he was FC3 at the time. He was on the barge watch and he checked me in on the barge watch. And uh yeah, I checked in, and then one of the first things I had to do was check in with a sheriff because we called him sheriff on the destroyer, which is an MA senior chief. That dude was mean, man. I got so mean. He I don't think he ever smiled the entire uh couple years I was there. And the first thing I had to do was provide a urine sample. Yep. And then and of course I couldn't go. And he made me stand outside his office on the barge and drink water until I could go. I probably was I was probably out there for like a couple hours, man. That was my first day, man. It was just uh yeah, I remember clear as day, man.

Gary Wise 53:04

Honestly, it sounds like they were doing it right, you know. The part one of my things as CMC is I would often look to see, are we getting our are your analysis done on time for new report ins, right? Because that's an indicator of of a of a ship program that's either being ran appropriately or not, right? So to hear that that they talk they got you within the first 48, 72 hours is actually a win.

Jason Brown 53:28

Yes, right.

Gary Wise 53:29

Yes, is actually a win. The other thing I when I think back to your LPO story about you, him taking you to his home and actually giving you uh somewhere to sleep at his house before he took you to the ship. Because he took could have took you to the ship and just dropped you off. And and unfortunately, that's what happens a lot nowadays, right? You're just I'm I'm actually being nice to you, giving you a ride, bro. You could have Ubered, and I'm just gonna drop you off at the brow, and I'll see you tomorrow. And here's this young sailor, just now what? Right? And he didn't do that to you. And the other piece of that is, you know, I I wake up every day ready to die, you know, still. I just every day. I don't know when I made the decision that I was gonna be willing to do crazy things at a moment's notice. I don't remember if it was when I was a teenager, but as a DC man, I was always willing to go into whatever danger was happening and do whatever needed to be done to stabilize the situation and we'll figure it out. And I tell my students every day I go to school, if something was to happen, God forbid, I would do whatever I had to do, and I wouldn't even think twice about it because I just how I live my life now. And when I think about the people that I'm willing to die for, right, that kind of a person is somebody I'd probably have a loyalty to, like because we're connected more than just you drop me off with the ship at midnight, right? You actually took the time to get to know me, talk to me, connect with me on a level of being an adult, right? Not just an 18-year-old, but like a shipmate, right? And oh, by the way, we're gonna get up tomorrow on time and we're gonna go to work, bro. You're not gonna sleep in. Um if this three shots of Jack put you under, you're gonna get it's it's not gonna work, right? And away we go. And so I I don't hate that story for a lot of reasons, right? Even though I know as a I'm probably sure you're thinking, like, if I'd heard that story as a CFC, I'm like, you did what? I know I'd be like, get him off right now. You know, but it's just God, I when I look back on my career and I unwind some of the some of the the stuff that I got shoved up my back, you know, as I tried to be the best company man as possible. I I I always want to have grace, right? I always want to have grace. And I I would like to think that if I heard that story, I'd be like, well, there's worse things you could have done, bro. That's not the end of the world, right? Just maybe in the future you don't do that, but at least you didn't just drop off at midnight. And yeah, you know, because God, I always hated those stories that our new reporting person shows up to the base and there wasn't a van to meet them or whatever. Like, we're we suck, right? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So okay, so how long are you on the bar in the barge before you actually get to move aboard the ship?

Jason Brown 56:11

We were probably in the yards for about a good year, man. It was a it was a huge mod. It was a huge mod, man.

Gary Wise 56:17

Yeah, it was so that's tough.

Jason Brown 56:20

Yes, it was tough. It was uh it could have been short of a year, but it was I I in 1995 was a wash, it was just the yards coming out of the yards, all the you know, I don't have to tell you all the efforts and work that goes into getting out of the yards. Um 95 was was yeah, that was a wash, man.

Gary Wise 56:42

So by the time you got to the ship, you were old school already, right? You were you knew what you were doing at that point.

Jason Brown 56:48

Yes. Oh my gosh. Late nights, oh my gosh, two a days. When I say two a days, I mean like drills, yeah, two a days, like it was so much work, man.

Gary Wise 56:59

When you when you think about the drills and the training and everything you had to do for the shipyard, uh, did you have any idea how dangerous did they did they did they really understand how dangerous the shipyard environment was? Did they explain that to you? Like, because you really don't have what you need to find a fire on a ship in a shipyard, right?

Jason Brown 57:20

Not back then.

Gary Wise 57:22

Well, and still, we I mean, I remember uh what was it, the Bonama Shard that caught fire piercide and we watched it burn, right? And I remember uh being in damage control meetings where I would tell them, like the shipyard, the ship piercide environment is the most dangerous environment for us because there's just fire zone boundaries, ha, right? Like you see all the hoses running through those freaking those pea-ways and those doors and fire trees and all this crap. Like we all knew that that's something like that was gonna happen someday, right? Of course, it was an arsonist, which sucks, right? Because the the odds of it happening were pretty slim, right? And damage control, the goal is to fight like Smokey the Bear. We prevent forest fires, baby. We don't let fires start, so we never have to fight the fire. But I I those those days piercing in the shipyard environments used to keep me up at night, yeah, you know, because that was where I just knew we weren't at everyone's sleep on the barge, they're not on the ship, right? If the bells ring, or if a person gets hurt and they're in a shaft alley, and we've got to get them out of that space. We're not, I mean, we're gonna bring the base fire department on, okay. Like that sounds good, but it's not as easy as it sounds, right? And so yeah, I can only imagine uh your first experience being that time space and distance and wondering, you know, did you know how dangerous it really was at that point? Probably not, right? You're just doing the job. Um, on board the Nicholas, did you end up finally deploying?

Jason Brown 59:02

So for the Nicholson, which was the first one.

Gary Wise 59:04

Oh, the Nicholson, the Nicholson, yeah.

Jason Brown 59:05

Did you deploy deploy? I did. I deployed in '96 and '97. Yeah.

Gary Wise 59:11

96 to 97. Was it a med cruise, or did you guys do like south, south? A Gulf, a Gulf cruise.

Jason Brown 59:17

Okay. So we yeah, so we left out of normal at that point. We were in Norfolk. We left from Norfolk into the Med, make your one stop, and went transit the Suez Canal into the Gulf, spent most of her time in the Gulf, and then transit back. One stop on the way out. Yeah.

Gary Wise 59:35

And you're living on this ship now. You've been on the birthing barge in the ship. You didn't have an apartment out in town, right? You were living on board.

Jason Brown 59:42

No, yeah. So back then, yeah, we well, in the shipyard environment, even then, they we we had a barracks room on base because it was you couldn't live on the barge, it was inhabitable. You couldn't live in that environment. Uh, it was in the in in the actual yard period, so yeah, it's just it's impossible. So we had a barracks room for the yard period, but once once the ship was up and running, that went away because we lived on the ship. So I lived on the ship as a single sailor once the ship was up and running.

Gary Wise 1:00:14

How was the home port ship to Norfolk?

Jason Brown 1:00:18

Uh, for a guy like me, who's young and and just it it meant nothing really. Just the sh, you know, the ship was where I lived, so the ship moved. Just the the scenery changed, really. So I didn't have a family then. I wasn't married, I didn't have kids, so it was just another adventure. So I was excited. Nice. No car, nothing like that to worry about shipping up north. I had a motorcycle. So some somehow I had this great idea. I I was that sailor that that nobody wants. I was that I was that just full of great ideas, full of energy. I was reckless, I was risky, I was just adventurous. So, man, I tell you, that's a story. We could probably have a two-hour podcast just about that, but just to give you a quick short on that. I was so impressed with motorcycles. I had never like on my own rode one. I didn't even know how to ride one. And a buddy of mine on the ship had a like a Honda uh crotch rocket. No, no, no. It was like a wannabe Harley Honda. I can't remember what the name is, but Shadow. Yes, yeah. So I said, Hey man, can you teach me how to ride? So in the parking lot of the barracks, he taught me how to ride it. I took a couple uh loops in the parking lot, and I was like, Yeah, I'm good. And then I went out in town, but here's the here's the rub. Maybe Freder wouldn't give me a loan. Like, nobody would give me a loan because I was 18. I had no credit to my name, I had nothing in savings. All I had was a guaranteed paycheck on the first and 15th. So I went to the the dealership and they were like, Come on in, we'll get you. Yeah. And so I I uh I signed up for that loan, but they had they were the Navy was smart. They had they had a uh contract that you had to take to your command, and the command had to sign off on it. Yeah, so I had to take it to my my division, and uh, I took it to my division. I was like, hey, I'm gonna get this motorcycle, they're gonna be alone. I was excited. I'm like, here I am now grown. And the LPO takes me to the to the lieutenant, the division officer, and is and he's like, You need to sign this. And I remember that his name was Lieutenant Dent. I remember this man, it's so funny. He kind of looked, he was older. I don't know if he was an L, I don't think he was an Ldo, he was just older, more sage. And he he looked at me and he goes, Are you sure you want to get this? And I was like, Absolutely. He's like, Well, this is a terrible interest rate. I'm embarrassed to tell you what the interest rate was. Yeah, it was it was 28. Oh, I get it, right? And uh I was like, I don't even know what that means, I don't care, right? All I know is I'm gonna be driving a motorcycle, right? So the lieutenant tries to talk me out of it, but I'm just not hearing it, right? And then he I remember he kind of like sits back and he goes, you know what? I'm gonna sign this and I'm gonna let you do this because I'm gonna teach you a lesson. And then he signed it and gave it to me. I was like, Yes, I went and got my motorcycle, dude. I didn't even know how to ride that thing. And uh, I mean, that should be criminal that he sold it to me. And I I drove that thing out off the off the uh lot and just I figured it out, man. And uh yeah, I rode that thing for like like three years.

First Deployment And Early Liberty

Gary Wise 1:03:50

Nice, brother. I I've been there, I've been there. I I can relate. I bought a car when I came back from Japan the first time. I go to buy a car, and the guy says, first of all, he said, Do you know you have warrants for your arrest in the state of Utah? And I was like, What? I had no clue. Uh I was a Navy recruiter, bro. I had I was DC three wise navy recruiter, go to buy a car, and of course I find because I bought my first car when I was 18, made one payment, never paid middle payment on it again, right? So they ended up repossessing my car, and I joined the military, leave, come back to the states. I got warrants for my arrest, like all kinds of crap going on. And but I they gave me a car finally, and I had like a 28% interest rate. I had no clue what I was doing. And it wasn't until my girlfriend, who became my wife, looked at the paperwork and was like, um, this is not good. Okay, like I'm uh yeah, and so I can relate, bro. You were not the only one that was just trying to figure it out, bro. Yeah, what do you what are you gonna do? Life, right? Yeah, okay. So do you remember on that on your first deployment, your first Liberty port?

Jason Brown 1:04:59

I do. My first on the actual deployment? Yeah. Um yeah, so the first liberty port in my deployment was I'm kinda mixing them all together now in my mind. That's a good question. We stopped in Bermuda briefly for fuel and stores, I think. We didn't get liberty that day. We only got to sit at the pier side or and and look at Bermuda. And then we shot across the Atlantic, went through the Straits of Gibraltar on Christmas Day. Remember that? So we took photographs with the Straits of Gibraltar with the big rock in our background as we're passing through the We transited. You know, I I you know, actually, now that I think about it, I think we hit we went straight for the Suez Canal. Yeah, we went straight through Suez, went through the Suez, and I think our first port call, unfortunately, was was Bahrain. Oof. Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:06:25

Okay. Did you get to like go off base in Bahrain, or was it only on base liberty?

Jason Brown 1:06:30

Yeah, there was at the time there was some heightened security concerns, and uh it was so heightened. I remember they had the Marines on the pier, they had all kinds of like gun mounts and stuff set up. Something was going on at the time, and I think it was with Iran and all that. So there was a lot of security concerns for us. So we only had base liberty in Bahrain, and Bahrain was not the Bahrain that it is now. Oh, yeah. Like there was like a pizza trailer, that's all they had. And uh there was like a little game room. Yeah, it was not what it is now, so yeah, yeah, but that's all we got, man. I think the second time we went to Bahrain, they loosened the restrictions, and we we did get to go out of town the second time around.

Gary Wise 1:07:17

No, I I I I get it, I can relate. And my first time to the Middle East was 98 for Desert Fox. And yes, I remember we had Jabel Ali and Bahrain, and much were significantly different than they are today. So they they definitely improve the quality of life for the people, especially when it's only on base liberty, right? Which is just just tough. Okay, so you do on the Nicholson, you do, is it five years or do you do less than five years? Because it's your first ship.

Jason Brown 1:07:45

So unfortunately, I only did I only did two years, and that's because I got hurt. And I was a so that was a major pivot in my in my young career. A major pivot. And and I look back today, it was because my trajectory was going this way. And and if I'm being honest, man, I'm a I'm a man of faith, and uh, you know, it was very providential. Uh, I got hurt really, really bad. And I got taken off the ship, metavact. We can spend a whole two hours talking about that experience. But uh yeah, I got taken off the ship at the end of the deployment at the very last month because I yeah, I I was really, really bad hurt and uh made my way back to the states eventually after going through various countries and surgery and recovery and and uh was it a ship accident?

Gary Wise 1:08:44

Like, was it an accident on board the ship or yeah, so more embarrassing stuff, you know.

Jason Brown 1:08:51

So when you're young and risky and adventurous, well, we had a swim call. And uh hold on, my wife just texted me. I gotta look at this. Uh yeah, I'm gonna respond to my wife really quick. Yeah, no worries. Sorry.

Gary Wise 1:09:18

I don't want to embarrass you.

Jason Brown 1:09:19

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Gary Wise 1:09:21

I don't want to embarrass you, brother. But there's a swim call, and something happens on the swim call that you got hurt.

Swim Call Accident And Med Evac

Jason Brown 1:09:26

You're not embarrassed. I'm not gonna embarrass myself. It's out there. I am the people today, they still remember 30 years later, you can't escape your reputation.

Gary Wise 1:09:38

I'm here to tell you. So I'm on a engine right now, waiting to hear what you're gonna tell me, bro. Like my CSE mind is like, oh my god, a swim call, and something happens to the cell.

Jason Brown 1:09:49

So we had a swim call, we locked the screws, and you know, we secured CHT, all that stuff, put the rib in the water for the shark watch, all that stuff, right? Yeah, and it wasn't our first. This was our second swim call on this deployment, so we were already used to it. On the destroyer, on the spruance, the way the ship of the hole was built in the very back, it was very narrow. It's not like the Oli Burke was it had a a a wider breath. So this the screws and the at the very fantail were kind of exposed to tugboats, so they had to construct these guardrails that came out to keep the tugboats from hitting the screws. They're called guardrails. Okay. So when we first started, they taped off that area so that no one would jump by the guardrails because the guardrails protruded out of the sides of the ship about a couple feet. So it was dangerous. So our ship is all male. There's no ladies in the ship. Lots of adrenaline, lots of just watch this, do this, dare, all this stuff, right? Which is all good, right? And so we were doing flips, we were doing back, we were doing all I was doing all kinds of stuff, just having fun, right? And after a while, the the either the watch or the boundaries kind of evaporated. There were no more boundaries. And there was this EM2 who did this really awesome, he ran and jumped over the rails, and it's like a 15-foot drop. He like jumped, cleared the rails, dove head first, and I was like, wow. And so I was like, I gotta top that. So I said, hey, everybody, my last final words before it happened, I said, Hey, watch this. So in my mind, I was gonna run, hand, handstand off the top rail, go off, project myself up into a flip, into a dive, into the water. That that's what I was gonna do. Cool. I worked it out in my mind. So I was like, here we go. I said, watch this, and I ran full speed, full speed, went for the top rail, grabbed it, went up. Well, I didn't calculate, I didn't calculate gravity and inertia. So as I went over, I didn't let go. Oh, because I couldn't let go. As my body went over, I went all the way over, completely around. I hit the side of the ship. Here, here's the rub, man. It was right above the screw guard. So I went straight down after I went completely around, and I my knee hit the screw guard first, shattered my my kneecap, rupture it ruptured my patella. I didn't know at the time, and then my hip and my abdomen caught the rest of the screw guard. I never hit the water, man. And uh, so I was stuck on the screw guard. So I remember at that, I still remember it, man. It was it was like a flash in my brain, it hurt so bad. But it got me off the screw guard, and it got me back on the ship, and I just knew my leg didn't work, like my left leg it didn't work, it was like dead, bro. And uh I had all kinds of just pain, and uh yeah, they got me in the in medical and triaged me, and we were in the Indian Ocean, and we were we were uh I think we were planned to pull into Djibouti the next day for fuel. We were that close. So I they stabilized me and we pulled into Djibouti the next day, and then they they had no choice. They left me so Djibouti was not Djibouti that you know now. There was no American presence there, right? There was a French military field base there, so they left me in Djibouti with the American consulate and the French, and I got dropped off. I kid you not, they gave me a brown envelope with a thousand dollars cash and typed orders and said, good luck, and left me there. And I had to find my way with the help of the consulate back to the states.

Gary Wise 1:14:22

They didn't leave you with like a buddy to help you navigate everything, like a medical attendant, something like that.

Jason Brown 1:14:28

They they talked about it, but for some reason they decided against it. Maybe the the consulate, there was a it was an army colonel that worked in the consulate. Maybe they had a conversation with him, maybe he's like, I got it, don't worry. I don't know. I wasn't privy to that conversation, but they left me with them. I got left into I was actually at a French military field hospital with the with their French army and with the consulate. And they were like, Hey, good luck.

Gary Wise 1:14:57

Talk about a case study for any commanding officer that wants to do a freaking swim call, bro. Just imagine what your CO, after knowing everything you know now, right? Imagine your CO having to make that phone call to his hire and be like, Um, I broke a guy. Bad, thank God he's alive. Like, because I was waiting for you to say you're a man overboard, but no, you were a freaking, you were an extraction off the fan tail. The ship just broke. Hey, oh my god, what a hot brother. I'm so glad you're okay. But yeah, ow, ow, ow. But my my CMC mind is like my saw the first person do half a flip. I'd have been like, Swim calls done, we're done. Y'all doing too much. Like, we can't have nice things. You guys are crazy, but I also get like America, right? Let these young guys live and let them do fun, crazy things.

Jason Brown 1:15:52

Bruh, why getting it? Here's the funny thing. I recovered Lim D for a couple years. I go back to sea on the Nicholas, so fast forward almost to the day, three years later, in the same spot, but on a frigate, is a swim call. Yeah, I remember mustering the courage to jump off that ship. And I did, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gary Wise 1:16:15

So it came full circle for your limdu journey, right? Where did you end up doing the most of your limdew at your medical journey? Uh in Norfolk.

Jason Brown 1:16:22

I did it in Norfolk. Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:16:25

Was there like a lot of rehab and stuff like that to get back up and running?

Jason Brown 1:16:29

Yeah. Was there ever I had a pretty major surgery in my left knee? Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:16:34

Was there ever any conversation about you not going back to active duty and medically processing you out of the service? Was that ever brought up? There were hints of that, but my mind was made up.

Jason Brown 1:16:47

I, you know, I was determined. I was like, no, I'm I'm going back to sea. I so I took my recovery serious and I worked my tail off the PT, and I was just I was determined, man. And at that point, I got married, I had a kid, so there was a higher sense of responsibility to my family. And this is what I always wanted to do. I wanted to serve. And so, yeah, I I was wasn't willing to accept no for an answer. So, yeah, they definitely had warned me and told me the you know the med process. So I had to prove myself. I had to work hard and I did, man. And yeah.

Gary Wise 1:17:27

So when you got injured, were you already a third-class petty officer?

Jason Brown 1:17:32

Uh I was, yes.

Gary Wise 1:17:34

Okay, so and then uh did you already were you already in a relationship with your girl at that point, or did you meet her while you were Limdew?

Jason Brown 1:17:43

No, I met her before deployment. We were dating, and uh we had did the back and forth on you know snail mail. Yeah, yeah, but we were dating and stuff, yeah.

Recovery, Family, And Returning To Sea

Gary Wise 1:17:56

Okay, so there you are in Limdu healing up from this major thing, but you've got a person you want to share your life with. You like you said, you had a baby at some point in that conversation. And did you already know before you were injured that you wanted to stay navy for a long time, or were you still kind of just deliberating back and forth as to what you were gonna do?

Jason Brown 1:18:18

No, I always knew. I always knew that I wanted to serve. Okay, there were there were there were ideas of me doing something else. Um, but uh I think in my heart, I always knew this is what I wanted to do, this is what I was meant to do. And so I yeah, I I was determined to to give back, man. I was determined to because I you know, being in the in the limdu population, as you know, as a command master chief, you know, it can be depressing, right? You you see a lot of folks that are hopeless, they they feel like they're going nowhere in life. And I saw the same thing, and but I was just like, no, man, you know, and I maybe a lot of that, I'll tip my hat to my upbringing, where you know, you know, when you don't come from much and you're you're surrounded by a lot of that in life, you know, you learn to just say, I'm not gonna accept that, and I'm gonna work hard and be determined to, you know, get out of here, essentially. So I already had that mentality of like, no, I'm not gonna accept that. I'm gonna keep working and and get back to full, full uh health.

Gary Wise 1:19:23

Wow. Okay. So you get full fit, fit, full, you go back to the ship, the next ship. Are you a DC two at that point?

Jason Brown 1:19:30

Yeah, I just picked up DC two before going back to a ship to fulfill my first five-year commitment. Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:19:37

Okay, so when you look at that next tour, right? That that it's a three-year tour, I would imagine, on board that second ship. Uh, what do you leave that ship as? You leave that ship as a DC one or as a chief petty officer?

Jason Brown 1:19:50

No, still uh a second class. That just I had made first right after I left the second ship. But uh no, yeah, that that was a pivotal point. I from the point I got hurt, was on Limdew, got married. I I did a lot of growing up in that two to three year period, a lot of maturing. So, so going back to that boot camp story, now I'm on the on the ship and and they recognize that I'm disciplined, I'm focused, I'm hardworking. And I was in a a shop on a frigate. I think on a frigate we had like 12 total people, an MR2, an HT1, another DC2, a DC one, and a and a couple firemen. I was just another DC two, I was a brand new DC2. And I was all I fit the bill, someone sniffed it out, and they said, Hey, we want to give you a position of leadership as a work center soup. And I'm young. The MR2 was like 10 years in.

Gary Wise 1:20:55

Yeah.

Jason Brown 1:20:56

And but they're looking at me and say, Hey, we want to give this to you. Now it almost came full circle. So now we're like what five or six years from boot camp, six or seven, right? Um, and uh, and I was ready. I think I was I was ready and was mature for that leadership because I faced all sorts of uh trials and tribulations on that ship as a young leader as a DC2. Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:21:26

I mean, probably a very pivotal ship for you in your journey. And I think to not pick up rank the entire time you were there for three years had to be tough, right? Because you you said you didn't make DC once after you left the ship, but I'm sure you were operating at a level of a first-class petty officer. You just didn't wear the rank, right? But you I mean, works in a suit for the general workshops huge, right? And and plus probably managing all the other programs, plus the damage control training team, plus all the other different things you were probably a part of. Was that ship Mayport?

Jason Brown 1:22:01

That ship was actually in Portsmouth, Virginia. So back then they had a couple destroyer squadrons stationed in Portsmouth.

Gary Wise 1:22:09

So you're still in Virginia at that time, so still Hampton Roads. Yep. So you were pretty well laid out in Hampton Roads at that point. You had done your limdu time, you had done the first ship a little bit, and the second ship. So, where do you end up going after that ship? Is that when you went to the scene to the Naval Academy?

Jason Brown 1:22:27

So, yeah. So after I did that tour, I went to the firefighting school. So I went to Ferrier. You went to Ferrier, okay. I went to Ferrier after my second ship. I was that's where I made first class. And uh, and that's I served with uh, so this was the second time I served with Play-Doh, Matt Play-Doh. Uh-huh. So Matt and I were on our first ship together, and then Matt was already at the fire school, and then I joined him there, and I made first. So we were we were uh instructors at the Ferry Fighter, but there was no there was no buttercup there at the time.

Gary Wise 1:23:01

Yeah.

Jason Brown 1:23:02

So I did that for three years, and then I didn't make Chief, and I left there and went to the George Washington, which was in Norfolk at the time. And within six months of being on board the GW, I made I picked up Chief there on the GW.

Gary Wise 1:23:18

Wow. Okay, so Ferrier is a great duty station for short duty. Yeah, right. I love I loved when I was at Swas and going out there hanging out. How was it like for you going to an aircraft carrier after your previous ship was a frigate, right? And picking up Chief relatively quickly, it sounds like after you got there. How was that? Who was Terry Wiley there with you on the journey?

Jason Brown 1:23:45

Uh there was uh there was a guy named uh OV. Uh I don't know if you know O V. Or the Bower. Yeah, yeah. He was my he was my DCC on there. Uh yeah, he I really looked up to that guy, man. He was that guy was so squared away, man. Uh, you know, it's interesting. When I when I was at the fire school, it was a good place to be centrally located, and the navy came to you every day, right? So I was exposed to so many leaders in our community. And there was a guy that came through. I'll I'll I'll never forget it. A guy you might know him, Danny Burke. So Danny Burke came through. He was a young Danny Burke, and uh he was a little thinner back then. Yeah, and he was a chief, and he came to me and he was talking to me, and he and he was asking me like what my aspirations were, and and he said, Hey, and he he told me, he's like, You need to go to an aircraft carrier. And his and his wisdom was was simple. He was like, I know you've been on small ships, and I think we were just talking on the grinder, right? We were just having the conversation on the grinder. He was mentoring me right there, and he said, uh, he said, Yeah, he's like, you need to go where you're gonna be competitive against a bunch of people to get the numbers for the evals so you can break out with a large group. That's what's gonna make you the most money. Made sense to me. I was like, okay, that makes sense. So that stuck with me. So once I got that advice, when it came time for picking orders, I uh it was clear I'm going to a big deck. So uh so I knew what I was getting into, and man, I just embraced it, man. And at that point, I felt like I was I was equipped, you know. I had the small boy experiences under my belt. So I felt like I really, really knew my rate. Because, you know, as you know, on the small boys, you you wear many hats, right? Yep. So going to a big deck, you know, it's not the case on a big deck, man. They're so like compartmentalized and unionized, and you know, they're very like tunnel vision. And so I was, I felt like I was I was ready, man. And I was ready to beat down doors, and and and yeah, I just I did very well on the big deck. I did very well. Awesome.

From Fire School To Big Deck Chief

Gary Wise 1:25:55

You know what's funny is when I was at Norfolk doing DKs, Danny Burke was the master chief over at Farrier, and so him and I got to work together during those couple of years, and so I that was his retirement tour. So I was at Danny at the tail end, and I was again here, he was at the end of his 30 years, and I'm a 16-year DC master chief, and he's like, You're not it all, Gary. I don't want you won't you're gonna see him see, you can do all this crap, all the chiefs' initiations and all that stuff, right? Danny just wanted to be in the back of the room and throw paper airplanes at me and give me lob softballs, you know, and then OV. Yeah, I I've got stories of both those guys, man, as well. It's a small world for sure. Yeah, um, so when you're on GW, uh I so we have that in common as well. Because I also I went to the George Washington as a chief petty officer as well, or or that's where I did my chief time. Like I did ATG and I did the G dub, then I left GW as a master chief. Uh, when you were on G Dub, how many chiefs did you have there? Do you remember?

Jason Brown 1:26:58

So, so just to make it clear, I I went to the G Dub, made chief, and I got distroed, redistroed. Oh I was only on the I was only on the G Dub for maybe nine months. Oh wow, yeah. We had too many chiefs. So it was it was me, it was OV, there was another guy that made chief, there was another chief there. It was like four chiefs. Wow, and then we got a master chief, and his guy, this guy, master chief was master chief berry, uh older, uh, older guy. I don't think he stayed in very long. He's yeah, but mass chief berry was there. So we had like in the R div, we had like five, five khakis, five chiefs. So they're like, You got you gotta go. So I I they picked me, I'm out of there. So I got sent across the pier to the Enterprise. The Big E. The Big E, man. And and the Big E was in trouble. There was at the time, there was two chiefs on there, and one, and they were both fired. One got fired. And he was retiring. Oh, and the other guy was not allowed to touch anything. That was the exact words, right? So they sent me over to the in on the big E, and it was a man, it was a big division on there, man. We had, gosh, I remember the first time I stood in front of the division. Man, we had we were like a big giant column in the in the hangar bay. There must have been 50 to 60 guys, man. Yeah. I'm saying, guy, it was mostly guys. And I'm like a 10-year chief, still at behind the ears, and I got it all. It's all mine. Because the one chief that got fired was not allowed to touch anything. And the other chief that got fired was running the ERNI and not allowed to touch anything. And they were like, You got it all. Yeah. So I had to do that for like a year, man, with no help, man. That was that was that was tough, man.

Gary Wise 1:28:51

What uh but looking back on your career, right? That's a huge opportunity, man. And you made it work, I'm sure.

Jason Brown 1:28:58

Yes, I did.

Gary Wise 1:28:59

Yeah, that's it. So Biggie, you go there, you're alone on the freight. And look, I get it, bro. When I went to GW, I retired, I really the master senior chief, two chiefs. I was the only chief petty officer on that ship, no master, no senior chief for like damn near two and a half years, right? I had it all by myself, and so I can relate, right? But you know what? You the those moments you either rise to the occasion, you leverage your people to find success, right? Because you maybe you didn't have a lot of other chiefs, but you had a whole army of people, right? That and the sailors, they can figure it out. All they need is leadership, right? All they need is leadership, and they'll figure it out. I used to tell my division it's like the Lord of the Flies, right? We're doing we're out there just trying to learn together and figure it out. Um, so when you look back on your big E time, uh was that one of your favorite tours throughout your career?

Jason Brown 1:29:55

Yeah, that was definitely a memorable one. I cherish that because just the you know, history, the heritage, you know, that man, the Enterprise was a cold war staple, man, for the Navy. They commissioned in like '61. It had done combat operations in Vietnam many times over. Um, one of the coolest memories I had on the Big E, there was a MM2 reactor, a Vietnamese-American young guy. I got to know his name. I got his, I got to know him. And I remember he told me a story one day on duty about how his parents were evacuated from Vietnam in 1975 on the Enterprise. And he took me to the spot where his parents took him when they visited him on the ship and showed him where they slept for like a week in the hangar bay, in hangar bait two. So when I did when this MM2 was showing me the spot where his parents slept for like a week, like it just made it real. Like, man, I can't believe I'm serving on the ship, man. So I would say for that reason, it was just the big E. I mean, you said it. As soon as I said it, you're like, the big E. It was so famous. Everywhere we went in the world, it was just like people would line up to come on the ship. It was like a famous ship. So that was cool, man. That was memorable for that reason. But it was, man, it was a hard, hard three years, man. But up to I grew up, man. I grew up a lot there.

Gary Wise 1:31:21

Well, look, the GW almost killed me, right? Almost killed me. But when I look back on my career, well, I look back at the whole totality of my career, those three years for me were just I felt like I had a blank checkbook, right? Like they needed me to be so successful, they would almost support me in any way, right? And that felt amazing, even though it felt like every day my career was gonna end because every day I was gonna make a bad choice. We were gonna do, you know. So I could totally relate, man. So after the big E, right? You're do you make senior chief while you're on the big E?

Jason Brown 1:31:56

I did. So so here's the thing, man. Yeah, it's not it's not what you think, though. Maybe this is a good lesson for your listeners about um about seeing opportunity. Because I didn't make I didn't make senior chief off the merits of being a damage controlman. Well, I had nothing to do with DC. Okay. Because after that year, we find I finally the Calvary finally arrived, and I had two chiefs showed up, two DC chiefs, a guy named Bo Cox, uh, which I'm still friends with, and another guy, uh, I can't remember his name, Filipino guy. Gosh. Anyway, and then we got a master chief from MDiv because MDiv had too many master chiefs. So we had a mass chief, and so we had too many chiefs. And engineering had to provide uh a chief to go down to the chief's mess to be the mess caterer. And on and as you know, on on aircraft carriers, a mess caterer is a TAD job, it's full-time. You go TAD to supply. Yeah, and I remember they came to us because we had too many chiefs, and they were like, someone's gotta go, and everybody's like, not it, not it. And uh and our mess on the big E was it was terrible, man. It was it was in disarray. And we had just the Navy as a whole had just transitioned from the open to closed mess, I think. I might have that backwards, yeah, right? Because there was a there was a lot of issues with money. So they they the navy had just torn all that down, and I only had like two years of the good Chiefs mess, man. I had two years of the good chiefs mess, it was awesome, and then they took it away. So I kind of saw the opportunity, and and when they came to us, I was like, I'll do it, right? And I remember they were like, really? And I was like, Yeah, send me down there, I'll do it. Because I saw it as an opportunity, I was like, wow, as a D seaman in engineering on an aircraft carrier, you're just so far down the lairs, it's almost like no one sees you. Yeah. And when I went to supply to work in the Chiefs mess, you work for the CMC and you work for the supply officer, and then you're just everybody sees what you do. Man, I didn't change a thing about my work ethic. I didn't change who I was. I just everything that I was accustomed to doing, I just did it now in this one new place. And I flourished. Yeah. And and the sailors that I the supply sailors, they loved working for me. And I think it's because I brought a different mentality. I brought an engineering mentality down there. And I was able to fix a lot of the issues down there and just apply the damage control, really the damage control mindset and ethics that you bring, you know. And and and I just and I just skyrocketed, man. And my second eval as a chief on there, I was breakout EP, man. I was a ranked, ranked EP. Yeah, and that and that's why I made senior chief.

Enterprise Challenges And Heritage

Gary Wise 1:35:06

Timing plus preparation equals destiny, brother. And you know, I I one of my strategies for success throughout my Navy career, and I would tell this to all the DC men, listen, and your path to success will never be through the engineering department, it will always be through command leadership and development and safety programs, right? Because I remember when I was in DC one, engineering ranked me like number three first classes in the department. And and when I made chief, I find this story out. They said that the the top snipe went to the ranking board and all the other DLCPOs laughed him out of the room. They're like, no, bro, we all ranked wise number one. You guys are so jerks. Like they basically told me you guys are so because he's not your E out or whatever it was. Yeah, we all see the value this guy brings to the ship, but because they have their bias, right? Yeah, and so I I could a hundred percent see that opportunity and see why it makes sense and see why you valued that chance. And then you look, and you didn't just do it, you you you did it well, right? Yeah, you did it well. Okay, so you you go there, you're the mess caterer, you pick up senior chief off that ship. Uh, is this where you now go to the naval academy?

Jason Brown 1:36:17

Yes, this is I left there and go to the naval academy, yeah.

Gary Wise 1:36:20

And you go to Naval Academy as a red roper? Was that what you are up there?

Jason Brown 1:36:23

Yeah, yeah. So you have to go to RDC school, yep.

Gary Wise 1:36:27

What was it about going to RDC at that point for you? Were you looking for the professional development? Were you looking for the experience? Because I also wanted to go Red Roper, they wouldn't let me go because of my tattoos, right? I had been a Navy recruiter, I was DC one, I had orders to go to Great Lakes, Sailor of the Year, but they wouldn't let me go because I had tattoos on my forearms at the time. Um why did you want to go be a red roper?

Jason Brown 1:36:52

You know, the only reason I wanted to, I didn't want to go when you say red rope, it's not like boot camp, Navy boot camp. I had very little interest in doing that. But it was a guy named Jason Ingle. He was a senior chief uh from the Big E. He was a reactor guy, and he went ahead. And I ran into him just by chance in a YMCA in Norfolk, and I and he had already left and he always he was already up there, but he came back because his wife was still in Norfolk. And I bumped into him at the gym and I struck up a conversation just to catch up, and he told me where he was at, and I think I knew he was going there, but then he had just shared his first six months experience, and he's just telling me all these stories about what he does. And I remember thinking to myself, what? Like you're doing all those things? So it's but it's kind of like Rotzi on steroids, basically. And it was just so inspiring to me. I was like, wow, man, that is the coolest thing I've ever heard. And but I'd never heard anybody talk about this before. Like it's it's not well known.

Gary Wise 1:37:58

And I was like, well, how does that living at the naval? This is living at the naval academy and essentially being a senior enlisted leader for a naval academy class.

Jason Brown 1:38:09

A company.

Gary Wise 1:38:10

A company. So yeah. So you're a send so like a CMC for them.

Jason Brown 1:38:15

Yes, because uh because the the brigade of midshipmen, so it's it's constructed like the Marine Corps. So the brigade of midshipmen is broken into companies. So at that time it was 30 companies, I think it's 36 now, and each company has about 150 people. And yeah, and that company transitions through the the uh Naval Academy experience together as a military company. So they get the academic piece, but they also get the military piece. And I bring the military piece there, right? I bring it to Bancroft Hall, which is their dormitory, right? And I institute that through them. So I I was inspired through him, and I called my I called the special programs detailer. I was like, this is what I want to do. And it just it all I made it all worked out, and I got to go. Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:39:02

At that point in your career, so now you're a senior chief, you've been the mess caterer for a year and a half, two years on an aircraft carrier. Had you already decided at that point you wanted to go climb master chief? Like, did you already kind of know you wanted to be a CMC?

Jason Brown 1:39:16

Uh no, if I'm being honest, man, like a big piece we're missing out of all this is you know, I went through a really hard time in my life personally. Okay. Um, I went through a divorce, unfortunately. My my first wife, uh, we were married for about five, five or six years, and I went through a really, really hard time personally. So what's interesting is on my professional side, I managed to hold it all together. But personally, I was man, I was broken, man. So I was holding it all together uh in my personal life, trying to be a single dad, all that. And when I was in Annapolis, I was I was a single dad, part-time, going back to Norfolk to spend time with my kids, trying to get my life back together. And uh I just wanted to go back to being a D seaman. I wanted to go back to where I could get close to my kids, and that's all I was focused on. And then I met my current wife kind of the same time, and and just it just didn't work out, man. It didn't work out to go back to Norfolk and be uh so I ended up going to San Diego after that to be a D seaman. I wasn't um what's interesting at the time, I really wasn't that interested in being a D seaman anymore, but I didn't know anything else, and I was maturity-wise spiritually and also you know, domestically and like family, I was still trying to figure all that out, man. I was I was still sorting through all that stuff. So I I just went back to what I knew to be a D seaman in San Diego on another big deck, and and yeah, it took me a while.

Gary Wise 1:40:59

What ship did you go to after Naval Academy? The Bonhammer shard. The Bonhammer shard. Okay, so you went to the BHR and was that when she just came back from Japan?

Jason Brown 1:41:12

No. We took we took the BHR to Japan. So I I she had been in San Diego for a long time at that point. So she was she was actually the best ship in San Diego for years, man. She was everybody wanted to go to the BHR, man.

Gary Wise 1:41:28

So did you cross that from the BHR to the Essex?

Jason Brown 1:41:30

So yeah, we took the BHR to Japan in 2012 and we we whole swapped. Okay. So we whole swapped with the Essex, brought the Essex back and made the Essex what she is today. Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:41:42

So were you on BHR with Ian O'Mira?

Jason Brown 1:41:46

I I was, yes, very much so.

Gary Wise 1:41:49

Ian is one of my mentors as well. He's the guy that made me a chief petty officer. He was my sexual leader as a BMC.

Jason Brown 1:41:56

So Ian is is a mentor of mine too.

Gary Wise 1:41:59

Yeah, yeah. I'm trying, dude. I had him scheduled and then we had to reschedule, but I'm trying to get Ian on here, brother. So Ian changed my life, man.

Jason Brown 1:42:09

Ian changed my life. So in the in the hangar baby, the BHR, right? So I went through a divorce and all that stuff. And when I got to the BHR, I was getting my life back together. Uh, I was I just got freshly married, and but I was still, I still, I was still making a lot of bad decisions. And uh Ian was on the BHR, and I remember Ian in the hangar bay of Chiefs and Chief's initiation night, and Ian just starts telling me his story, man, his own personal like life story. And I'm not gonna take his story away from it's his story. Yeah, yeah. But I remember him sharing his story with me, and I'm just like, who in the heck is this guy? Yeah, but everything he's saying to me is exactly what I need to hear because you know, not uh I don't want to change the the vibe of this podcast. Um I more morally, you know, I was making a lot of bad decisions in my moral life that you know involve like the internet, looking at things I shouldn't look at. Uh so as a as a man, as a a husband, as a man of God, I was doing a lot of bad stuff, you know, in in in the background that's easy to hide, basically. And uh Ian just pops in my life, which I don't believe is by chance, and and for the next year to two years, Ian just took me under his wing, man. And Ian's yeah, Ian's awesome. Amazing.

Career Pivot Through Mess Caterer

Gary Wise 1:43:41

Again, I was DC2 wise, he was BMC Omira, he made senior chief on board USS Ogden. And he was my section leader when I when that chief told me I wasn't gonna make chief, right? Here I am, DC1 Sailor of the Year, partially because Ian was one of those guys that ranked me number one, right? And I was like, bro, like how do I write an eval, man? I don't know how to do this. And Ian BMCS like, well, bring me your stuff, why? I sent to the deck department office, and he sat down with me and helped me write the paperwork that made me a chief petty officer, and then uh we we decombed the Ogden together. We both went to a float training group San Diego together, yeah, right? We were all at ATG San Diego together, and then he went to the BHR and I went to the GW, right? And then he retired off the BHR and went on to his walk, yeah. But we've we've stayed connected. Um and I yeah, so no, Ian is an amazing human being, bro. And I'm not surprised to hear we have McComa, amazing human being. Um, so it's safe to say, it sounds like that during your time on the BHR and cross-teching into the Essex, you kind of got a lot more aligned with faith, it sounds like, and you kind of you you kind of recognize that you wanted to adjust things in your world. And look, we've all been there, right? The internet crashed a lot of people, and access to things that you don't need access to all the time, and the deep dive of immediate satisfaction and gratification, which look, we all know that unfortunately people are struggling with this across the world. There's no there's a reason why OnlyFans is making so many millionaires right now, right? Absolutely, but but it's toxic, right? It's toxic, and it can cause people to deviate from what they're supposed to be doing with their day-to-day and to to struggle with the challenges of the real world when you're always obsessing about the fake. And as a dad, I've got, you know, I don't know how old your kids are now, but I've got an 18-year-old and I've got an 11-year-old boys, and then of course I work with all these young people, and I want to I want to teach them to be grounded in reality and not always obsess about um what's not real, which is us, you don't always see the real on social media, you don't always see the real in a YouTube clip or a video clip, right? But it sounds like during your time at this point in your life, you're really getting a lot of depth when it comes to your own walk, right? Uh brother, how are you on time? It's about we're about two hours in right now. I'm good, man. I'm good. Yeah, good to go. So want to make sure you're you're solid because we're getting into some interesting stuff here. Um, so when you're getting ready to leave the Essex, are you already at 20 years in the Navy at this point?

Jason Brown 1:46:23

Yeah, when I get ready to leave the Essex, I was right about 19, 19, 18, 19, somewhere around there. Yeah.

Gary Wise 1:46:33

Are you deliberating possible retirement or are you still like, I'm all are you considering it?

Jason Brown 1:46:39

Yeah, yeah, because the BHR in Essex was another tough, tough, tough tour, man. It was gators, bro. I I tell you, man, I I will stand by my reasoning. Like the gator, the the LHD is the toughest, hardest platform for a DC man. Uh it's so hard, man. So hard. And so after three years of doing those two ships, man, I was I was done. Now, professionally, I did well. I was I was like number one, like two years in a row, man. I I excelled on those ships, like I did very well, yeah, but I was like done, man. And my new marriage, the man that my wife, Candace, who I'm married to today, you know, we we had gone through the first couple years of marriage on there, and I here I am like almost burning the house down again, making the same stupid, you know, mistakes professionally and personally. And uh, but yeah, so when I left there, I was like, man, I just want to be done with the Navy. This is ruining my life. Not realizing I'm like most people, you try to blame everything else, but never really looking inside. Yeah. And uh I I go back to Providence, man. I tried, I went to tap class, I was like, I'm just gonna retire. I'm gonna retire out of ATG Mayport. And I I wasn't, I kind of wasn't able to by uh I'm I misjudged the the Montgomery GI Bill, post 9-11 GI Bill transition. And my oldest son is uh my oldest son was about ready to graduate college, so I had two kids for my first marriage, and he was gonna go to college, and I'd always told him since he was young, I'd always like beat into his head, hey, you when you finish high school, you are not allowed to do nothing, you can't just take a break. That's not real life. You can either go in the military or you can either uh go to college. I'll support either one. And I always beat that into him since he was like eight. I mean, seriously, when he got to like 15, he was like, Dad, I know, I know, I know, right? So um, when he got to that point, just like your son, he's like, Dad, I don't want the military life, I don't want to move all over the place. Family's important, and I'm like, okay, cool. So I was I wanted to hold to my word and I wanted him to go to college on the GI Bill that I had. So I did all that part and I transitioned it, but I forgot what I forgot to do. I forgot to put um like the months in his name. That was a key point that I didn't do. Yeah, and nobody told me, or maybe I didn't, I don't know. I don't know. I just missed it. So when it came time to like retire, and he's graduating high school at the same time. They were like, uh, sorry, Mr. Brown, but you can't do that. You have to reenlist. I'm like, what are you talking about? I already had the post-9-11. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's almost like, haha, I gotcha. Right? They're like, uh, you have to do this one little step, but in order to do that step, you have to re-enlist. And I'm like, You kidding me? So I had to make a hard decision, and I was like, I can't look at my my son for the rest of his life and say, you know what? And I I didn't, I wasn't in a financial position to just pay for his college at that point. Right. So I I re enlisted, man. I and uh the other part was I was still a senior chief at that point. I had not made master chief. So this is the same time I'm reaching out to you. And I didn't want to go back to sea as a senior chief, man. I didn't. I just finished two tours on ships as cat as a chief and a senior chief. And I'm like, I don't want to go back and do that, man. I'm I'm I'm done with that. But I made a hard decision. I wanted to follow through on my word to my son, and and so I re-enlisted, man. And yeah. And here I am.

Naval Academy Red Roper Experience

Gary Wise 1:50:21

Well, so you're at a float training group A port, you're a senior chief. And the full circle moment for those of you are listening. Uh so Jason reaches out to me at that time. I'm a master chief of a Norfolk, and we're comparing notes. All right, Gary, this is reverse a little bit. How did you pick up nine? And I and I didn't know that you were thinking about retiring, but secretly so was I, right? I was also, I did not want to go back to sea again as a DC, man. I was cooked, right? The GW almost killed me. And I was unhappy being an alcoholic that was just raging, right? Because it was working your butt off, stressed out all the time, and go home and binge drink and then go do it again, right? And so that's when I went to the command the CMC program is because I wanted to do the things I knew I was good at doing, but I did not want to continue to be a damage control man, right? I wanted I wanted to go out and lead chiefs, lead sailors, and and do my best at that space, but I did not want to go. If I had to stay as a DC man, I would have gotten out, right? I knew it, I would have retired. Um, I hear your point about the college place, and you're at ATG. So, where did you go as a senior chief then when you re-enlisted?

Jason Brown 1:51:32

So it's interesting. So I I came up for orders as a DC senior chief, but I knew I knew I was gonna make mass chief that year. I was like, this is my year, I know it. Yeah, because there was a guy, Paul Davis. You remember Paul Davis?

Gary Wise 1:51:48

Uh-oh.

Jason Brown 1:51:49

He was in master chief, he made mass chief the year before I did. And uh, so I was I was at that point where when you're at the top of the DC world, you know where everybody's at, right? You know, and I was like, this is my year. I just knew it in my heart, man. I was like, this is my year. But the problem that was the same year that the the the master chief board got uh compromised. Yeah, that they got compromised, and they that was that year. So, but nothing happens. I'm just convinced nothing happens for it's not chance, everything's for a reason. So that's the year that I'm trying to get orders, and I'm not and and I should be a master chief, but they got compromised, but I'm still a senior chief. So I'm up for orders as a senior chief still, because I don't have the orders from I don't have the the the results from master chief. And I'm calling the detailer and I'm like, hey man, can you just hold off? Can you just not give me orders yet? Let's wait for the results. And the guy's sticking to his guns, and good on him. He's like, sorry, man, can't help you. So I had to pick orders, and I got my last month, my last window. I'm in Mayport at ATG, and and there's only one ship, and I'm the only roller, and they have all these business rules they have to follow. And the guy's like, sorry, man, you're the only roller, you're the only person. I have to put you in this spot. There's nothing I can do about it. And it was the USS Fort McHenry, the LSD out of Mayport. So it was in the same place, yeah, but it was an LSD, and at the time it was the worst ship on the East Coast, yeah. And I and I would already been on there a few times, you know, and I so I knew what I was walking, I knew what I was walking into, and I was like, oh my gosh, right? So here I'm a DCC, DCCS about to go to the Fort McHenry. I get orders there, and and I'm so sick of not making master chief because I've been a senior chief for 10 years. 10 years. I was like, and the worst part was every year I would face my wife when the results came out, and I would just tell her, I'm so I hated it, man. I hate facing my wife, and I felt like a failure. Like, I can't make master chief. I'm sorry, you know?

Gary Wise 1:54:00

Yeah, and uh but people don't know how competitive the damage control community can be. Look, you're either there's no in between for DC, man. I'm convinced. You're either the number one EP on the ship, or you're like, right? Because when I went to Norfolk, when I went to Norfolk, guys would bring me their packages, they'd be like, they want me to look at their stuff, right? And I would look at their packages and be like, oh my God, I'm so glad I'm not competing against you. Because like you're incredible. Like they had OD underway letters on aircraft carriers, all kinds of stuff, bro. And I'm like, how did you manage to do all this? I thought I did a lot. Like, holy crap, right? And so it was very competitive at in that community. Because again, if you're a good DC man, that whole command values you, and they will they they will throw you to the top of the pile because you make the whole command a better place. You're making a better the captain loves you because you're making it safer, right? The CMC loves you because you're probably bringing the mess together via your training teams or your DCPO program or your you know, whatever. The mess typically loves you because you're making their life easier, because you're probably helping them out with 3M and maintenance or whatever it is. So you have all these things on the reverse. If you're failing, everybody hates you because you're breaking them all down, right? Yeah, and so I can see uh where you're where that's a where and I'm surprised the BHR and the S didn't do it for you personally, just hearing your story, right? That doesn't make sense to me.

Faith, Marriage, And BHR To Essex

Jason Brown 1:55:34

I I I had uh well I know exactly why I didn't make it. Um I had a I had an eval in 2010. It just flew, it was a flat eval, and it was my first regular senior sheet eval. And that that and that just stuck around too long. It wasn't a bad eval, but if you read between the lines, it was not good, right? Yeah, it just I I butted heads with the CMC at the time, but but if I'm really honest with myself, that year, that was a time of my life where I was trying to figure things out, and and I I was just uh I needed to grow up a lot. I think it so I got held in place for the right reasons. But I want to go back to what I was I want to finish this one part. So I'm getting rated to transfer to the BHR, not BHR, I'm sorry, to the Fort McHenry. I'm still a senior chief, I'm doing all the things to figure it out, and I'm just at my wits' end, and I'm like, because the massief results aren't out, like I'm like, I'm just over it, man. I'm like, I can't retire because I I gotta fulfill my word to my son. You know, and uh, and I literally remember I just I you know, I'm a I'm a man of faith, and I just got on my knees and I I said a prayer and I and I made a vow. And I someone once told me a long time ago, if you make a vow to God, you better fulfill it. So I made a vow to God. I I'm not making this up. I even said it out loud. I said, God, I want to be a master chief. If you make me a master chief, I will be a command master chief. Because, and the reason I said that was because for the prior two to three years, they've been begging me to go command standard chief. And because I was always big in my command at ETGMA port. I was living leading at the command level, I was leading ships, and that everybody's like, this is for you. This is that you're a cut for this. Everybody's trying to point me in that direction, but I was always like, Nope, I don't want nothing to do with that. I don't want anything to do with a command mastery program. To me, it was like, I don't know what it was. I was dead, I think I was probably hard-headed. I wanted to make, I wanted to be a DC master chief because I felt like I could, it was something I couldn't obtain. And I and I I think I was a little intimidated by being a command master chief, like I wasn't ready for that. I don't know. But so I made that vow. And then would you know, like a month later, other things had happened, which we'll talk, we can talk or not talk about it. The results come out. I make master chief. Now I'm a DC master chief, and then here I am like, well, I made a vow. So I immediately put in my CMC package like I said I would, and would you know, I make my master chief right away. But I had still they still forced me to go to the Fort Mac. I had to go to the Fort Mac as a DC Master Chief, and I went there for a year before I could transfer and go to the CMC program. And I tell you, man, that was probably the toughest year as a DC master. That was so hard, man. Yeah, LSDs. So hard, man.

Gary Wise 1:58:46

I'm a gator guy. So I did the USS Bellowwood, I did the USS Ogden, and I did the Ashland as a CMC. Um look, LHD, LSD, LPD. If it starts with an L and you're a damned controlman, bring a tool belt, bro, because it's about to be as as hard as the carrier was, it has nothing on an amphibian because you don't have the bodies that you have on an aircraft carrier. Or the money. Or the money, you're the four truck of the navy, bro. And you were just you are just doing your best to keep it all going. And Surf Surface Navy does not have the money exactly right of Air Forces, right? Period. Yeah, no, and so I could a hundred percent and plus I can imagine here you are for a year as a DCCM, knowing you've been selected for the Command Master Chief program and just true doing your best. And hopefully the mess isn't looking at you like, oh, you're a short timer or whatever it is because you're leaving. So did you have a good mess on that format?

Jason Brown 1:59:47

We had a good mess, but I I it was uh it was a hard, it was hard because the ship was failing, so there was a lot of pressure on the CMC and the mess. Yeah, and uh, and I didn't see eye to eye with a lot of the the leadership on the mess. So I I felt like I I was speaking truth, and which which meant that there was a lot of tension and conflict with the leadership because I would just uh you know I would hear things inside the mess on the 1MC that were just wrong. Yeah, and I already knew going there as ATG, I knew like the the dirt. Yeah, and so I would speak out against these things, and uh, and it did unfortunately didn't buy me a lot of friends at the top, but it bought me a lot of friends at the at the at my level, and they I think they agreed with me. Um, but uh yeah.

Gary Wise 2:00:41

I can only imagine, you know, coming coming from ATG, because I went from ATG San Diego to GW and it was hand-picked, right? They called me by name after the fire. I did because I did the fire investigation with Mark Weathers, which is that's how I met Mark, and I was the carrier team leader guy, and they were like, We want you, Gary Wise, to come to Japan and be our guy. And they were a soup sandwich, right? Like it was not a good. I remember telling my wife, I went home from the GW one time, and I was like, Man, if I could get that ship, I'd make my whole career. And my wife was like, I don't want to go to Japan, I don't want to do all these things, and I was like, I get it, but I put it in the universe, right? I said it out loud, and then one day I got my wife called me, literally, she my wife called me crying on the phone, and she was like, This guy just called me from Millington, and he said that he wants you to call him because they want you to go to the George Washington in Japan. I hate you, I hate you and I was like, Well, if you want to go to Norfolk, we gotta go to Japan and do an overseas tour to get choice of coasts, right? And inside, I'm just like, oh my god, like this might and I called up the detailer and he was like, Yeah, bro, they want you to go to GW like tomorrow.

Jason Brown 2:01:54

Hey, hey, one quick, one quick, hold on one second. I just got a uh phone call. I probably should wrap this up. Um, maybe if you want to pick it up, we could talk more. Um, I'd love to. If you if you need more content, I'm your guy. Yeah, man, I'd love to catch up with you again.

Gary Wise 2:02:16

Real quick, can we do a rapid fire? Yep. All right, here we go. Rapid fire. Let me see if we pull up my other paperwork here. Let me get my glasses off. I don't know about you, but I'm going blind to my old age.

Jason Brown 2:02:30

Oh, yeah, go ahead. I was supposed to call to talk to another guy.

Gary Wise 2:02:39

Go ahead. Okay, so we're in the we're in the ship. It's on the weekend. Are you looking forward to the pizza or the wings?

Jason Brown 2:02:47

Pizza.

Gary Wise 2:02:48

All right. Hey, I I need somebody in the birthing. I need somebody in the or I need somebody in the working party. Which one do you want? You want the birthing or the working party?

Jason Brown 2:02:56

Birthing.

Gary Wise 2:02:57

Okay. All right. We're gonna watch a movie in the mess. Would you rather watch a De Niro movie or a Pacino movie?

Jason Brown 2:03:05

De Niro.

GI Bill Twist And Reenlistment

Gary Wise 2:03:06

Okay. What was your favorite duty station look back on your career? The Naval Academy. Oh, that's a good one. You know what? Okay. Favorite Liberty Port.

Jason Brown 2:03:22

Wow, that's a that's a good question. Wow. Uh favorite. I I would have favorites for lots of reasons, but if I had to say the first one that comes to mind would be oh, there's so many, man. St. Thomas.

Gary Wise 2:03:44

St. Thomas. I've never been to the Caribbean. Sounds good. All right, looking back on your career. What was the most challenging qualification you ever achieved?

Jason Brown 2:03:53

Uh Steam Meow.

Gary Wise 2:03:55

You did that on the Essex?

Jason Brown 2:03:57

I did that on the Essex, yeah.

Gary Wise 2:03:59

Oh, keep that's a good one. That's a that's a really outlet, brother. That was tough, yeah. That's oh yeah. All right. Uh you never served overseas, correct?

Jason Brown 2:04:09

I have.

Gary Wise 2:04:10

Did you?

Jason Brown 2:04:12

Yes. Italy.

Gary Wise 2:04:13

All right. So so if somebody ever asked you, would you rather rec would you recommend them to do overseas or ticket science?

Jason Brown 2:04:18

I recommend overseas.

Gary Wise 2:04:20

Okay. We I'll let talk about that later. All right. Um, would you rather be independent or on a team?

Jason Brown 2:04:28

Oh, good question. Uh my nature would be independent, but my but my mind would say you can get more accomplished on a team. So I would go with the team.

Gary Wise 2:04:42

All right. Jason, do you have a personal leadership philosophy?

Jason Brown 2:04:46

Never ask anyone to do that you're not willing to do yourself.

Gary Wise 2:04:50

Check. Got it. All right. So in the Chiefs mess, we've got deck plate leadership, institutional technical expertise, professionalism, character, loyalty, active communication, and a sense of heritage, right? Um, those are our guiding principles. I still leverage them to this day. Uh, out of those principles, which one's your favorite?

Jason Brown 2:05:10

Deck plate leadership.

Gary Wise 2:05:11

Yeah, baby. I love it. All right. Would you rather lead or follow?

Jason Brown 2:05:16

Lead. Yeah.

Gary Wise 2:05:20

All right, brother. That's gonna wrap it up for this session. If you ever got time to come back around and talk about going to CMC and all that, I'd love to. But if not, thank you so much for the opportunity. Share your time, man.

Jason Brown 2:05:31

Yeah, man. Let's pick this up again after the new year. I'd love to, I'd love to talk more, man. Catch up.

Gary Wise 2:05:36

All right, definitely, man. Well, thank you very much for listening. And you know what? I appreciate you.

Jason Brown 2:05:41

All right, man. God bless you, man. Thanks.

Gary Wise 2:05:43

Bye, bro. See you later.