Back to School: Smart Girl in the Classroom

In this episode, LT and Sam are joined by two students from the fall Smart Girl roadshow: Liz Hardy (UCSF) and Maliah Siyoum (SMC). Together, they unpack what happens when Smart Girl moves from the page into real college and grad school spaces.

Liz and Maliah share what the book unlocked for them, including recognition, discomfort, joy, ambition, and that unmistakable moment when a class shifts from “discussion” to real talk. They also reveal how the memoir resonates far beyond first-gen students, opening up conversations about why we go to college, what keeps us there, and how stories shape both individual and institutional change.

Go here for the Smart Girl experience:

https://www.smartgirlbook.com/

Chapters

• 0:00 Framing Smart Girl And Today’s Focus
• 1:05 Book Tour Context And Guest Intros
• 2:57 Grad School vs State School: Liz’s Lens
• 5:15 Malia’s First Semester And Sister-to-Sister
• 8:01 Student Connections: Imposter Syndrome And Validation
• 10:20 Reading Smart Girl In Classrooms
• 12:20 SMC Q&A Energy And Open Dialogue
• 13:58 UCSF Fireside Format And Room Shift
• 16:20 Teaching Alchemy And Adapting To The Room
• 18:10 Transfer Paths, First Gen Realities, And FAFSA
• 22:00 Pressure, Purpose, And Choosing Your Major
• 24:10 What Keeps Us Going: Mentors And Making Space
• 27:05 Building Mentorship Beyond Campus
• 29:00 Family, Legacy, And Why It Matters
• 31:30 Walk-In Songs And Playlists As Identity
• 34:20 Closing Gratitude And Future Meetups

Transcript

Sam: 0:04

Hi friends, welcome back to Smart Girl, where we're talking about um first generation college stories, uh what's called alt act stories. So folks who get their PhDs but don't go into necessarily faculty mode, um stories about belonging and not belonging in college, uh as well as DIY author and media stories. Um, which is what you're doing, which is amazing. Uh, and it's been so fun. Um, in this episode, um, we take the focus of smart girl, the journey to and through universities with a critical eye toward how they brand smart girls like LT and our two guests, uh, and move it to today's college and grad school classroom. Um, LT, as you know, has been on a book tour. Uh, and some of us have been lucky enough to have her visit our classes, including me, uh, which I'll talk about. But today we welcome two of the just truly fantastic students um that LT encountered on the tour to talk about the experience of reading Smart Girl for class as well as just the college experience now. Um, Liz Hardy from UCSF and Malia Um Siyum. Am I saying that right? Sium. Uh yeah, Sium. Sium, sorry. I'm Malia Sium from SMC, Santa Monica College. Yay. Woo! Um, LT, introduce our friends.

LT: 1:38

Yeah. So, Sam, like you mentioned, I have been on the road. Thankfully, I my ass is at home here in San Francisco. So I'm not traveling anywhere. Yes, this fall, I was so fortunate and blessed to um travel all across the country and meet some incredible um folks, um, but especially women, particularly black women, in fact. Um, and as you know, I I came back and described my my ventures um to you, but there were some some people in particular that just I had a just a really special connection with. And I'm gonna start with Liz Hardy because Liz um uh and in the universe uh UC San Francisco has the distinction of being the kickoff location for my tour. And so Liz and I um I remember sitting in my backyard, we had a preliminary conversation because um Liz was the moderator for that event, and I remember distinctly getting off Zoom with her and texting our mutual friend and colleague, Tiffany Lamb, and saying, I'm just adopting her, right? Whether she wants it or not. So let's first welcome Liz. And um, Liz, please say hi to the folks and tell people a little bit about you.

Liz: 2:57

Yeah, sure thing. Thank you, um LT. Um, so like you guys said, I'm a second-year um you know student at UCSF. So currently being in the pharmaceutical sciences and pharmacogenomics program there. Um I did have the pleasure of you know doing the event with LT being the moderator and kicking off the book tour was a really I feel like magical yet intense event. Right, I would have said that it was one of those you just had to be there. Yeah, you just had to be there. So yeah, my PI enjoys really, really enjoys the book. Um got him a signature, so he was pretty stoked. But um, yeah, that's pretty much the wrap on me.

LT: 3:39

Well, one more thing before we bring Malia into this conversation. Also want to acknowledge that UC San Francisco is a completely um graduate and professional school institution. Um so Liz, will you tell us a little bit about undergrad? Where were you for undergrad? Represent that.

Liz: 3:57

Yeah, so um, yeah, it's definitely a different experience only being a graduate institution, no football team, no basketball games. Um if you work out, you're kind of weird. I'm like, okay. Um, but um like you don't really see too many like people doing like athletics hardcore, like um, you know what I mean? Like gym rat culture is not really a thing. Um, it's just work work. Go home. Um, I do like that though. Like, I I don't mind the separation. Um coming from the state school New Jersey, Rutgers University. Um, yeah, definitely a different um experience. Yet I will say I definitely am thankful for the intensive focus that you feel on the campus. Like when you're going to work, you're going to work, and we are all like thriving on that feeling. So yeah, I like it. It's definitely different. I think it's helping me mature at this um young age, I guess. So I'm trying to embrace it while I can because it it definitely feels more serious as the years progress in this doctorate program for sure.

LT: 5:05

Oh, we can't wait to hear uh more about that, whether it's your undergraduate experience at Rutgers or more at UC San Francisco. Um excited to hear about that. Um not long after I was at UC San Francisco, I went down to um the Los Angeles area at Santa Monica College, um, which by the way, it was my I well, I've been on the campus once before for a football game, but never had spent any quality time there. And it was another magical time. And in this case, it was specifically with all black women. And right in the front row, soaking everything up, was Malia. And we just had an awesome, awesome time. Malia, so grateful for you to be here today, but will you talk tell a little bit about yourself? What what are you and what are you interested in right now, what year in school you are, that type of thing?

Maliah: 5:58

Um, yeah, so my name's Malia. Um, I'm an art major at SMC. It's my first year of college in my first semester, actually. So I was completely in my first semester. Um this current semester, I am an officer on the uh Black Legions Board Club, and we were the ones who hosted uh Dr. Latanya at the uh one of our meetings, our sister-to-sister meetings. Um so it's basically we just like get a lot of us black women together and we talk about different topics. But um on that day we had a guest speaker, of course, and it was just super awesome, super great. Um things I'm interested in right now are really just like learning more and doing different stuff in college. I mean, right now I'm just getting my like general classes out of the way still, so just expanding a lot of my knowledge, but I'm super excited to dive more into like art and things I'm like really interested in as far as my major.

LT: 7:02

So great, so thankful um and grateful to have you both here today.

Sam: 7:11

It's just so incredible. Um, and uh again having witnessed just in small form what it was like to have LT in class, but also to witness again what it's like to start a new place, right? A new place, a new school because everybody was new, uh, was pretty remarkable. Uh, as well as sort of collecting together um black women on college campuses that don't always get a place to be together and show up together uh in classes, right? Uh and I think that that was also a really significant thing that I noted, right? About um my own experience having LT in class. Um, so I've taught Smart Girl to a group of incoming first-year college students. We had one from Virginia, which was Yeah, we did. Uh most folks are from uh Texas uh at UT. Um and I asked them what one word or phrase would you use to describe your key connection to Smart Girl? And I asked this before Latanya showed up on Zoom, right? Uh and of course we created a word cloud, but I'll just sort of read what some of the words are. The biggest word or phrase is imposter syndrome, then change, and then we had a smattering of other ones: first gen, heartwarming, therapeutic, strong mentality, fitting, family relatable challenge ahead of the class, and then defending your learning, which was like my favorite one. I remember you were like, who said that? Tell me about that, right?

LT: 8:58

Yeah, I remember that. That was good.

Sam: 9:00

Yeah, it was really good. We had like such a wild mix of students in that class who were um some who were really attached to their academic achievement that they felt like brought them there and really talked from that place of being like, I'm a smart girl, I'm a smart girl, I'm a smart girl, because that was how, like, I mean that in the most generous way, right? Of like that, that's how I identify, I know, too, right? Um, to people who were really willing right off the bat to be like incredibly vulnerable, and everybody got to the vulnerable spot, which I also thought was awesome, right? Like even our, but I'm a smart girl was incredibly willing to be incredibly honest and vulnerable. But anyway, I digress. Liz and Malia, we've got this question like, what is a word or a key phrase, right, that you would use? Um what were some of your key connections to smart girl, um, to the book? Um, do any of the keywords I just read resonate with you too? It's okay if they don't. Um, and then LT, how does it feel to hear these connections that students are making to your book?

Liz: 10:17

Uh I guess I could start off with that. So one that wasn't there, but I think that definitely made me feel connected with the word trailblazer. I think because LT is so one of a kind in unique is not well if we think back to the prologue in the beginning. I think we talked about that on the section of the book. And like, oh no, this was amazing, this is good. This is all you really need to read if you want to get a grasp of what's about to go down.

LT: 10:55

Yeah, that was funny.

Liz: 10:57

Yeah. Um my boss really loved it too, so when we talked about these things, I'm like, you know what? Like, this just gave me the breath of I wanna say like not only vulnerability, but some type of like warmth feeling in my chest, like, oh this is so relatable. Like I kind of fear change, but change should really fear me because we're gonna bring so much more to our communities and like the vision she has, and I was like, Wow, like for vision for her.

LT: 11:43

How are you, Malia?

Maliah: 11:47

Um I think from what I'm hearing, like um our experience is a little different because I'm pretty sure most of the people in my group we hadn't heard of the book prior to the um event. So I would say one word that I remember like thinking kind of while we were in our like discussion was um how like validating you exp like explaining the um book to like everybody and how everybody could relate to different aspects of the book was, and so I just think like a word, a key like word I would think of is the word validating because I just remember like so many people being like, Oh my god, I feel the same way, or that happened to me, or this was how my experience was too, and that was also like what I felt reading some of the book as well. I was like, you know, I felt that same way, so um, that would definitely be the the word I would use to describe the book and to describe you as well.

LT: 12:45

Oh thank you so much. Um, well, the word that comes to mind for me is I feel very honored. Um, and I I think, you know, I had been in a place, even though I wrote the book pretty quickly for two years, but honestly, it's it's you're in a in not solitary, but you're in your head, right? You're I'm trying I was trying to get this story out and didn't really think about the reception it was gonna have. Um, so I am uh so, so um, like I said, honored to hear you say these things um and to know that you feel you felt seen in in some type of way. I I just knew there was a gap, right? Um, and I know one of the things that had frustrated me, and I know I'm still in a different generation than than you two, but I know that when I was in college, I felt like the the stories were so much more so distant from me. And I felt like, oh my gosh, if I'm not leading a protest, or if I'm not like getting like water hosed or something, then my life didn't mean anything. Um, and I really set out to show that it's some of these just sort of ordinary things that we can make a difference just by some of the music that we listen to and the way that we dress or or things like that. So I really am appreciative to hear that it landed with you all. Um and I just want to flip this around to say how much of a cheerlead cheerleader I am for both of you for all that you've accomplished so far. And Malia, it's just so incredible to hear you say, this is my first semester. And yet you also said in the same breath, I'm the leader of an organization. Like, how did that happen? You know what I mean? So make sure you don't downplay your own accomplishments as well. So kudos to both of you.

Sam: 14:39

And I loved how you all talked about feelings, right, with this, right? Like I like Liz, I wanted to be like, yeah, you talked about like kind of how it felt in your body, right? To be there, to experience it, or what it felt like even before you read it, and the way you align the book, Malia, with LT, which is like thinking of things as um as relatable, as approachable, even as they are trailblazing, right? So, like Liz, you pair that like vulnerability with the strength, right? Which goes with the like magical but intense experience, right? That you talked about the the book event being, right? And and so like that to me um feels so right as a way to both describe LT but also describe um the book, but also what it means. And we've talked a lot about this on the podcast, what it means to actually meet an author and have them sit there and talk about their process um and how you can connect to that in so many ways. Uh, I know we'll talk, probably talk about this in some other episode, right? But like LT's friend's kids are reading it who are about to go to college, right? And they're they're applying, right? And so it's got this whole purchase with like a teen high school set, like that's wild, right? And yet it super makes sense to me that it that it would be. Did you have something to add, LT?

LT: 16:09

No, no, I was just laughing at the at the teen set. The the Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even the teen set the emerging smart kids.

Sam: 16:16

Yes, yes, the folks who feel seen, right? Like to use your your all words about it, like to feel seen, to feel validated, right? To use that same language you all are using, and like what the power of having a story that is a story of high achievement, right? But is also like deeply honest and felt and feels like it. We do this, right? We we do the we're in our first year and we we are the head of one organization, and it feels small to us, but it's actually pretty amazing, right? Like we moved across the country to go to like the most serious grad med school, med research place, like in the country, right? And we're good. Right. That's good, right? So I just wanted to to to put that back on you all, like how you're thinking about it. Um, so um you all have have broached this a little bit, but can you talk a little bit a little bit more about those events, either being at a book event or in the classroom, right? The experience of being in the classroom talking about Smart Girl as a student, right? Like what was the group dynamic like, et cetera. Um, or as the author for LT, uh, what what what has that felt like? And also, you know, if this resonates with you, what stood out or surprised you about the discussion in the room? I always like to think about that, like the thing that popped up that I was like, ooh, I didn't, I didn't think we would talk about that, but there you go.

LT: 17:56

Can I set it up a little bit? I'm gonna start with Malia. Malia, if that's okay, and describe it a little bit more because like Malia mentioned, I that was my my intro to them. They had not read the book yet, right? Um, it was in the middle of the day. It we weren't even sure how many people were going to come, right? Um, so I also want to acknowledge um Sherry Bradford and um from SMC and Dr. Darlene Edgley for even inviting me there in the first place. And it was a classroom setting, and you know, food was provided. And so funny enough, I had visuals um set, like, you know, it was just you know more interesting and engaging. And I let the folks know because this is really different than than the UCSF setup. And but I let folks know at the beginning, hey, at any time, like ask me any question, right? And did they ever ask questions? So let me pass this on to Malia, because I think I I think I spent an hour on two slides. Malia, what was it like for you?

Maliah: 19:01

Um, so you took the words like right out of my mouth. I was exact I'm gonna bring up that exact thing. Um yeah, so the sister-to-sister meeting, um, none of our meetings are like mandatory, so it is like a different count of people that come to each event. And I honestly, I that was my first sister-to-sister meeting. I hadn't been able to make any of the previous ones. So when I got there, I was just ready to see what we're gonna do. Um, some friends had told me kind of what it I was is it was supposed to be like. Um, but I think this was the first guest speaker we had, so I automatically like just didn't know what was gonna happen. But um, as um Dr. LT got here and and all everything got set up, a bunch of students came and as we were sitting down and uh the slides were on there, and you mentioned like if you want to ask any questions, um feel free. Um I don't even think we finished all the slides, I don't think we got through like more than all three of them. Um because it was just nonstop, like, oh, I have a question, I have a question, I have a question. Yes. And I think it was just so fun and awesome to be in a place where so many people are so like curious about um different things and about who's talking, because you don't really like normally see that, I feel like, and just for everybody to be so engaged in in what was happening and the conversations about um going to college and being first gen, because I think um a lot of students in there, especially related to being first generation and to like not knowing what to do in the college space, not really being prepared for it, and just having somebody there to talk to um that wasn't even like faculty or staff, or you didn't have to schedule a meeting to talk to them, just to have an open conversation was just really awesome. I mean, I I was having I was uh I was part of the the hand raising group. I was uh I had questions nonstop, but um, and I think also just to hear um your story and how much like my own experience related to that was just a a great thing to to have going on. So that was how our our meeting went. We didn't see a lot of slides, but we definitely asked a lot of questions.

Sam: 21:11

I love this. I want to call the episode now the doctor is in. Like you were like the advisors and everyone didn't know that they needed and they got it, right?

LT: 21:24

Well, I just love that Malia kept raising her hand. I love that. I think that women in particular um are socialized to not ask questions in class or to feel like, oh no, I'm taking up too much space. They took up all the space. I loved it. I loved everything. I was like, keep it coming, keep it coming. Um, I'm not gonna step on Liz's toes here. Um, but uh all I said was um all I'll say is that the format definitely was different because it was it was like a fi like a typical fireside chat. Okay, go ahead, Liz, take it away.

Liz: 21:58

Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it, honestly. Yeah. So it was it was interesting though. I've never seen anything like it. Like I've never experienced anything like it. Um, but I feel like you hear about these things, it's like, oh man, this is an event I'd want to attend. Um, but to start off, I'd say, you know, we had like you know, chair by chair, like coffee style. Um I had a list of about like 12 questions. Um we've actually like I think eight of them. Um but it turned into like a mini dialogue, um, and then we like moved along accordingly. So it was a really good conversation, but um you know I felt like students felt really empowered to ask questions that they've been like holding cards close to their chest for a while, and they just felt that that was the right time and a space that they felt not only heard but acknowledged in. And you could feel like the weight that that burden, the that type of burden they were carrying, um, just in their room based on the certain conversations. And it was a nice thing to see because I feel like a lot of individuals who are not in like you know, first-gen shoes or had those difficulties or didn't have the encouragement or weren't in the right spaces, didn't have the financial stability rate. Now they had the chance to like be seen and heard. And those individuals who quite didn't understand it really felt that in the room, and I was like, whoa. It was powerful, it was really, really cool. Um Yeah, it was it was so it was a special moment for me because it made me realize that like LT is making this happen like in other places, and that could really change someone's perspective on you know, validating a student, acknowledging this um, you know, what they're coming from and what they're bringing to the table, but also their struggles that they faced along the way. So hopefully that you know, some people at missions were all the room. Like that's what I'm hoping for. Um that could have a ripple effect. I that was really, really awesome. So um yeah.

LT: 24:08

I know I know what you're talking about, Liz. There was this moment, honestly, I don't even remember what was said.

Liz: 24:13

I'm joining the cage.

LT: 24:14

You know what I'm talking about though? You know, yeah, there's this moment where there was Sam and Malia, there was like a shift that happened in the room. I don't even know what was said, but it was like a really powerful moment. It got quiet for a minute. Um, and yeah, it I I I can't even like you said earlier, it was you kind of had to be there um in order to to capture it. And something similar happened at SMC, but it was actually after the event when we were, Malia, when we were in Sherry's office, and I ended up taking a photo because it was just such a powerful women-only space. So um two very important um visits for sure. Like just like I and I hate to use, I don't like to use like the magic thing, but it really was true. It really was true, and but there's alchemy, right?

Sam: 25:09

And so that's like part of it, right? Is that feels like that chemistry feels like magic. And when you when you all talk about the palpable shift in the room, I think for those of us who have taught, but also for those of us who have been students, you know those moments where the class just changes, just opens up, and suddenly folks are being real. They're not worried about sounding smart, which is like epidemic in graduate school and like performance. Um, but also in in undergrad, and I face that I was I'm teaching a first-year course right now. And the first thing I say is like in every class, you have to already be smart and you are learning to not sound like yourself. So my goal here is that you try to gain some writing, communication, and analytical skills while you still have your own voice, right? But I think about this all the time. What's the moment where the class shifts? So I think magic is like a perfect metaphor for it. And also, I, you know, as someone who has witnessed LT teach and advise for so long, something that I've seen follow you right around, which is you you have made magic as an administrator and as a teacher. But what is it? So so going on with that, right? How did it feel to you? How does it feel to you? You're saying magic to LT, yeah.

LT: 26:38

Man, okay, you know, this is uh the practical side of me, the side of me that's like I don't like Harry Potter even though I know a Ravenclaw.

Sam: 26:47

That was the first episode, y'all. It was called Black Ravenclaw, but also was her disavowing Harry Potter. Me disavowing wizardry, wizard wizardry in general, and then I basically started playing wizard rock for her.

LT: 27:04

Um, yeah, it was it was just it was just palpable, right? Um, and like I said, the the first one lit literally happened um with UCSF, and I'm like, is this gonna be replicated? Like this is crazy. And then for it to happen again, but in a really different way, like the context shifted um because it was a different school, different people in the room. Um uh and yet equally, equally impactful. So it was um uh fantastic for me, but it also for me, I really needed to lean in and pay attention to who's in the room and not have the same uh generic type of talk, like really adapted to who I was speaking to. So knowing at UCSF that these folks were graduate students and already had completed at least one degree, right? But still hearing so so I knew that. But I also will say people still were struggling with imposter syndrome, still still struggling to make friends. These are people in master's and doctoral programs, right? But I had to keep my at antenna up and just pay attention to that, and then um, and then SMC, you know, um a two-year institution. Most folks are gonna go on to some other um some other degree, some other uh uh institution. But I also um this is Malia, I remember this now. That was one of the things I talked about is being a transfer student as well, too, and knowing that, hey, we're gonna move on from this, yeah, from this particular space. Um, but that was a little bit broader. Like we we I remember there was someone there who was a teen parent. There was um Malia was really interested in like art and culture. We were talking about parking, we were talking about the differences between the East Coast, the West Coast, North Cal, so Cal. We just leaned into it all, right? But um I will acknowledge that that did require um like a a a higher level of of uh audience assessment. What does this particular audience need? And just and just letting letting it go, right? And not trying to control the conversation. That I think that's my takeaway from it.

Sam: 29:30

And that is so accurate to teaching all of the time, which is if you have a too much of a plan of what you want people to say, yeah, it falls apart, right? Like you just you can't have attachments to that and get the magic and get the alchemy, right? Um, and and I think that's true. Um, so I was just doing that about the transfer thing, which I don't think we ever have even talked about. That that's one of the things I connected with so much in the book because I transferred from Penn State. To um Rutgers when I was in college after my first year, and like the process of going through that and deciding that and the way that that became like an identity, right? Like a like I don't belong here. And as I joke, you know, LT calls that, uh says, like, I was deciding where to take to take my talents elsewhere. I called it the decision, right? It was like LeBron, she was going, right? But like what it takes to do that. Um so, so this brings me into my next question for y'all, which is one of the things that stands out to me about the book that you all are just talking about is that folks are reading it from really different perspectives and backgrounds and finding deep connections in the material. Students who aren't first chin, right? Students who aren't undergrads are talking about grad, right, et cetera. Um, I feel like the book, NLT as a human, uh opens up discussions. This is what we're talking about, about what it means to go to college or even to want to go to college that we don't usually talk about, right? We don't really have the space to talk about. This is mirrored in everything that you all have said. Um, Liz and Malia, can you tell us something about your journeys to college that differ from Smart Girl? Um, or, you know, and or uh is there an aspect of the college experience that you'd like to write a memoir about? Because, you know, what I want is just or right? Um, so like what's different? Um, and or like what do you think is like, you know, special or not unique, because obviously it's got to be repeated, right, to some degree, but what would you write your college journey memoir about? It's a it's a hard one, right? Um, Malia, I know you're in your first um semester, and so for you it's really the journey, it's not a looking back, right? You're really close to it. Like what what grabbed you, right, um, about this? Like what what about your story did you connect to Smart Girl? But like what do you feel like really defines your journey to college?

Maliah: 32:24

Um, so what I think drew me to college was definitely my mom. And I think this was something that I may have mentioned on the day you came down to SMC, but um, when you were giving your talk about the slides and you kind of explained how you had um your kids on campus, that's how my mom had me with her on campus, uh on UCLA campus too. Um in middle school, I was homeschooled, so and that was when she had decided to go to a university. Um, so I was really with her throughout her entire college experience, her community college experience, then her transferring to UCLA, and then to her getting her masters at Howard. So she was just really like my idol like the whole time, and she's definitely um the main person who kind of influenced me to um go to college and to work towards that. I mean, I know like nowadays it's kind of expected for everybody to go to college, I think, or it's a lot more expected. Um, so that was the definitely also a push for my family just because it was kind of like the next step, even though um on my dad's side of things, uh not a lot of people have actually gone to college. So it was kind of like like oh okay, one parent didn't go to college, one parent did, but I got to see like her entire journey, and I was like, okay, like that's something I can do. And she kind of coached me, kind of gave me pep talk about like what I'm gonna do, what to expect, like how everything is gonna go. Um, honestly, even when I was enrolling, I was like, Can you look at this? Can you make sure this is alright? And then even now I'll talk to her. She picks me up from class, and like I'll literally tell her everything that happened in my day and what we did in class and everything. So it's just like for sure, like having her there was like such an incredible support, and I think that's what like will differ from Smart Girl, but um a lot of themes that I did identify with um were like definitely the imposter's uh imposter syndrome and finding it like quite challenging and difficult. Like even with her, I still find things um a little difficult to manage on my own, and just being there on campus by myself, having to figure things out sometimes is a little tricky, but you know, I always have her one phone call, one drive away. So uh at the end of the day, I'm not super worried. But yeah, she's definitely my like my deciding factor, encouraging factor, whatever yeah you want to call it.

LT: 34:54

But yeah, that's definitely shout out to mom. That's it. I love it. I love it. Um and also, Sam, like the black homeschool experience. When do we ever hear about that? You know what I'm saying? Like, you're yes, your story is your own, but I think it would that's another narrative that is highly underexplored, let me tell you.

Sam: 35:15

Right, and then also the um being raised by black women who work their way through higher degrees, right? Obviously, it was in a different sequence for you, LT, with Lau Reese, right? But like it's there, right? So thinking about that as well, like non-traditional paths through graduate school, right? Um, for that, which I think is really unique. So Liz Ruckers, um, you know, Jersey, etc., but just you know, you now have this lens looking back and being in graduate school, probably with people that went to way different schools, right? Than you. I remember that feeling as well. I remember that feeling real, real well, right? Um what you know, what's your what's your smart girl? What's your journey, right? What's your memoir?

Liz: 36:12

Sure, yeah. So um, I think like starting out at Rucker's like differences, I really was first inspired. Also, I feel like my mom was kind of my superhero too in terms of like seeing her be a single mom, um, like you know, divorced, so you're kind of depressed, you're heartbroken, but you're still trying to push through, like understanding that experience. And I was a young adult, I'm like, wow, like I am so I don't know how she does it. So talking to her and just like kikiing about whatever is like really enjoyable now. But um watching that, she wanted to graduate from nursing school, but she had myself and my twin sister, so that experience motivated me to try to um enroll in nursing school. So I think that keen difference was like I did the FAFSA application and put my sister's college admission or my admission in by myself. My sister was I think a bit too overwhelmed. And I think we're just also like built differently mentally, so I was always like that. I'm just gonna do it, like I'll figure it out. Um, so that was a wild experience. I kind of like lost her on the way of college in terms of like, you know, she dismissed and whatnot, but um, I think another difference is like doing STEM is like wild, like you would just have to pick the right plan. If you don't do bio, get you like it's just like it's really scary. Um, so yeah, I ended up picking up two degrees and then I picked up a minor and turned it into another major. Um, so I got it with three degrees. So I think I may have like went like fuck wild in undergrad for doing that many credits, but like it was worth it along the way because I'm like, you know, I have to make this so worth it for my mom, like somehow. Like the struggle had to be worth it. So I think that's like a relatable, like LT was just not giving up for nothing.

LT: 38:20

Like there was no success was the only option. Yeah, failure's not.

Liz: 38:25

Yes, there's just no time. Um, so it's just really inspiring. And I there is no time, you don't have time for it because we know the consequences of those actions, right? Like, if you want to build a legacy, so we we don't want anyone else um that we you know no longer can support the way that we really like should be and want to, um, and is are deserving of. So it's just easier for us to get it done now. Like, just get it done, just get it done.

LT: 38:53

But but Liz, Liz Amberly, I like the casual way in which you all are talking about your accomplishments, like oh, I just I just picked up this and this, and I had three degrees. Like, people are not doing that. I just need you to know. I just I need great mentors though, like that was really it. Yeah, those people mentored other people, and all their mentees did not do what you did. I'm gonna tell you right now.

Sam: 39:17

Yeah, but even just like the FAFSA form detail, like like I want I want an edited collection about like collective trauma of the FAFA form.

Liz: 39:29

Yeah, FASFA is a first gen is no joke, it's just not even funny. Like, I'm putting my family in a debt that I just can't understand at the moment, and my mom is like low-key having a heart attack about it. Like, I caused her stress. Like, I can admit that now. That is a lot of money. We still we just talked about it last week, you know. Like, I have loans to pay now, and I'm like ready to pick it up because she has a mortgage she's trying to pay, you know, for the school system we were brought up in, and like she took those sacrifices. It's time, it's time to pay up, buddy. You will, you will, you will, I will, but I want to start now. It makes me it almost puts another weight on my shoulders, but like it will like this too, shall pass. Like, well, I'll get there, it'll be worth it. I know how much of less a burden I can, you know, just I just want to support my family. Like, that's really it.

Sam: 40:24

Yeah, so anyway, I'll cut the yapping out, but I just want to also say, like, shout out to Malia too, for I mean, both to your mom for doing all the stuff, right? Um, but also to you for um it can be really hard, I think, to go to school and say in this world, like, I want to major in art, right? We talked about it. Speaking of the pressures that are on folks, right? Um, and and what you want to give, right, to the next generation. Like there should be a whole book about the the oldest first gen siblings, right? Because you had to, you know, do it even though obviously your sister was the same age, right? Like you had to do it at the same time, right? Um, it's it's really intense to like follow who you are when you have all of this generational, not pressure that your parents put on you necessarily, but that you feel that responsibility for. Look what my mom did to get to where she's at or to get me where I'm at. Like I can't, right? And it's it's it's heavy, and we have to talk about that all the time, especially as humanities people, of just like, you know, we have to think about what students we we can bring in, right? And who we're bringing in when we're not talking about skills and careers and doing internships and doing things that are gonna help them. And as I say, like, and the Thanksgiving fam, be like, what are you gonna do with that? And you're like, let me show you the handout, right? Of like the top 10 things I could do. That's what I would say all the time when I ran the humanities center. I'm like, I want a handout, right? That you can give to like Uncle John, right? To be like, this is what you do with this degree, right? But just that it takes such internal fortitude, not just to make it and get it done because failure is not an option, right? But to then try to follow an internal compass about what it is you love, right? And want to do um for that and to take that risk, right? Um, when you you could do something else, right? So I just wanted to honor that.

LT: 42:46

Yes, kudos to you both.

Sam: 42:48

Yeah, it was great. Um, and I'm I'm cut this question down to just ask you all um, what keeps you going with higher ed? Keeps you going in college to grad school, keeping that teaching and connection alive to higher ed. Um, and I I super selfishly asking this because like I'm in a crisis of faith about it. Like, what keeps me going, right? So I'm like, tell me, I need to hear stories about it.

Liz: 43:22

What anyone want to start? Yeah, I can swoop in really quick. Yeah. I honestly I touched on it earlier, but mentorship, no joke. I think that like at a point in my college career, like towards the end, I just realized how much of a professional working relationship you can build with higher ed if you do many favors but ask for the favor, ask to help them. I got so many amazing opportunities by like just kind of like hey, how you doing? Showing up in the class, doing putting that extra work in. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness, like I'm gonna be a s on a psychology publication, like I know how to use SPSS, like why? I natural papers, like it's just super kind of random, but it does match with m one of the other degrees I have. But besides that, like there's so many more handouts for you. Like, I think that's a secret handbook. Like, don't be a teacher's pet, but just be cool, like just be there, show them like you know what exactly is your goal. If you can demonstrate that, I think it'll go a long way. But with that being said, um, I think really what keeps me going is seeing that relationship I had, understanding what was out there for me, knowing that I had this relationship, building those connections, and then understanding how beautiful mentorship really was. I took a step back from it, and then I'm like, oh man, I kinda miss sending them an email or popping up at their office door telling them how I got a good grade on this. So I ended up talking to another colleague of mine um in another program at UCSF, and we came up with the idea to start our own nonprofit to offer mentorship to not only students in STEM, but students in any professional major. Um so if you're getting a J D all the way to MD, you want to be a PA, we have mentors for you. Um so we built that website overnight because I was like, I this cannot wait. Like we need it now. And um just last year we had two students um get post back programs at the NIH. So like it's been a dream come true. So yeah, when I get those emails in my inbox, I'm just like, okay, it's time to lock in. Like, remember why you're here because what are you gonna tell them that like you're no longer, you know, you know, just in the program, you want to step out of it, no matter how stressful it can really, really be, I'm gonna have to get Botox in my forehead. But I will say that like it's so worth it. It's it's so worth it. There's nothing like inspiring someone and seeing their eyes light up when I tell them about a class I gotta see in or a class I thought I was gonna fail, and I still made it, and I'm in this position, so so can you. Like, if someone has like gave me the message that my mentors gave, like there's no wonder what I can only imagine what other people can do. They just really need that motivation.

Speaker 5: 46:19

So it's the dream. That's the dream. I'll defer to Malia.

Maliah: 46:27

Malia, if you have any thoughts, happy to go last. Um, well, you know, I've only been in college for so long. Like, I think we're on week 13, 14 right now, so um, I think it's a little too early for me to lose motivation.

Sam: 46:44

But it could just be diet coke could be the answer, right? Right?

Maliah: 46:50

It doesn't have to be heartfelt. It can be nothing no nothing crazy, but I will say, like, I've definitely similar to what Liz said, like I've met such amazing people at SMC, like Miss Bradford, for example, is like literally one of the most amazing people I've met um so far. Definitely would consider her a mentor. And a lot of my professors actually, I tell a lot of my friends this since I like enrolled so late, but I won the professor lottery with my classes because they're just like the most amazing people ever. And you just heard me talk about my mom for like 10 minutes. So my mom too, she's definitely what keeps you going. Like those little debriefs in the car after each like full day at school, college, you know. I'm just like, yeah, you know, this is what happened, this is what happened. She's like, Oh, that's good, that's great. Like, oh, can you show me this assignment you were working on? Like, oh, can you show me that thing you did for art? And I'm like, Yeah, of course. Like, and then I'll I'll just hold it in front of my whole family and be like, you know, this is what I did. And they'll be like, Well, it's uh okay, thank you. So, you know, stuff like little things like that definitely motivate me a lot more. Um, but yeah, just the the people you meet and the people who help you throughout college, I think definitely keep me going.

LT: 48:07

Oh my goodness. Um, so I there was probably a time where I I thought I would always work on a college campus, right, Sam? Um and and then, you know, then I I'm um I switched careers. I evolved. I evolved. It's evolved.

Sam: 48:24

Yeah, it's not a switch career, you evolved.

LT: 48:26

I evolved into uh working in other spaces. I can also be a goober about some things too, right? Um and so it was so funny. Right before the the the tour, the fall tour roadshow began, I was talking to my I was talking to my um my coach. I have a professional coach, and she said, LT, don't forget about the like the the personal moments you're gonna have with people, right? And I I just wasn't even thinking about that. And and look at where it has brought us. It it brought me to meet both of you and then other um people as well. And so Liz, I'll never forget how you framed it tonight, just in terms of wow, students having access to someone who's not their faculty member, who's not a staff member, like another source of support. So that's definitely a big part of it because I was definitely touched by at least one person at every single place that I visited. And then I also mentioned my own kids, right? And about legacy and just this past uh a couple weeks ago was um uh at my daughter's um exhib, art exhibit. Um she's a student at California College of the Arts and seeing her um her artist statement, I was like, oh my gosh, it was incredible like what she wrote about black feminism and ecology and photography and all of that. Um and I I I I love that for her, for them, for you all to like have that kind of like confidence, or even if you're not fully feeling fully confident all the time, but knowing that there's just another way that the world can be, especially because things are pretty shitty right now, but know we're gonna get past this. Um, and that as always, black women are gonna be leading the way, right? So we just have to just like ride this out, you know. Um, but just knowing there's something else that's possible. That's definitely why I'm in the game, so to speak.

Sam: 50:33

Oh I muted, I re-muted myself. I love this because for for all of you, it's I mean, it's about human connection, right? And it's also about, you know, if we want to call it universal design, like the that you're making things that make things better for everybody, right? You're just like, oh, I see a hole where mentorship is, oh, I see a hole in leadership for this student group, right? Oh, you know, like LT, this is what you've done your whole life. I see this vacuum. Let's make it. You are the person that would make the website overnight as well. That would be like, I am now the leader of this group from the like fourth week I was on campus, right? Um I was making the MySpace page. Exactly, exactly. You're you were you and Tom at MySpace where we're hanging out. But um the kids here are gonna start saying, Okay, boomer to us. It's gonna get um, but you know, like that that that's something that endures and it's something that we find on college campuses, right? A lot, and that that they sometimes aren't built for that, but that they are to some degree like a place where it feels like there are some spaces to have open discussions, right? And not just perform, right? The I've got it together. Um it in the best case scenario, right? You can you can have a chat and be like, I don't have it all together. I once got a C, right? Like it happened to me and I'm still okay, right? Um, I love this. So finally, we like to end with musical shout-outs because I don't know if you know that LT has not one but two soundtracks for Smart Girl. Not one but two, um, not two songs, two full soundtracks. Just want to be clear. Um, playlist. Um, so um give me your classroom walkout song, which is I think of as like you're coming out of the tunnel and into the arena for the game. So what's your what's your it should be your walk-in song? You're coming into class. What song is playing?

Liz: 52:53

This probably isn't as oh sorry, do you want me to?

Speaker 1: 52:56

Oh you're good if you if you have one. Sorry, I was yeah, be quick.

Liz: 53:01

Oh um this is not like super MVP esque vibes, but um it's Mac Ayers.

Sam: 53:08

Not a test whole points, no. Sorry guys, I'm not cool.

Liz: 53:12

Um it's Mac Ayers, Sunny and 62.

LT: 53:16

What? Okay, tell us. I don't know this one.

Liz: 53:22

Yeah, M-A-C-A-Y-R-E-S.

Sam: 53:26

Alright, we gotta put this on as the like thing for the for the Insta post now.

Liz: 53:33

Okay, okay.

Sam: 53:34

I love it. Okay. We're gonna we're gonna play it. Do we have it? Oh no, no, no. We have that kind of money, so we can't I wish I did have that money.

Maliah: 53:44

Alright, all right, all right, sorry, Malia. Oh, it's okay. I had to think about mine too, because I really don't listen to music that hypes me up a lot of the time. I listen to like really sad, melancholy stuff. So I had to think about this one for a minute, but and it might be a little bit more. Um, but no, I I went with something that was you know near and dear to the city I uh grew up in that I live in, LA. So I had to go with um uh Not Like Us by Kendrick. Um I thought I feel like that's the SoCal anthem right now, and you know, I I hyped me up. I don't know about you guys, but I love it. Um yeah.

LT: 54:27

I want to hear your melancholy something. What else is on your playlist?

Sam: 54:30

It doesn't have to be the hype, it don't have to be the hype of I know now. I'm like, I want to reformulate my thing for that's because ear pods when you're walking in because that's me.

LT: 54:41

That's I'm the dummy that's coming in hyped up, right?

Maliah: 54:45

Um I don't know. I listen to like a lot of like Loive, Faye Webster, like that type of stuff. Um I really like this is not as melancholy, but I like Mr. Eclectic from uh Loive, her new album right now. That's what I listen to sometimes. I love it. I'm I'm I'm I'm adding stuff.

Sam: 55:04

That's what I'm gonna have to do because I'm old and I'm tired. So I'm like, you all listen to shit that I've never heard of. I've got a 10-year-old who like identifies as goth, but she's like pop goth. So it's like she hates Taylor, as we've talked about, right? Like, like that's her version of it. And but we listen to a lot of like Sabrina Carpenter is still okay because she's funny and dirty, right? And then um, the 10-year-old loves that, and then like a lot of Chapel Rone, you know. So I'm like, my walkout song now is different than my walkout song in grad school, right? Because like right now, my walkout song is like my kink is karma, it's like middle fingers to the world. That's my version of it, but that wouldn't have been my version in graduate school. But again, I live with a 10-year-old.

LT: 55:55

Yeah. And Liz, did you want to add another one? Because it didn't have to be a walkout song. Are you good at that? What what else are you listening to?

Liz: 56:05

Hmm. I listen to everything, so this is kind of hard.

Sam: 56:10

Okay, you don't have to, yeah, yeah. We just wanted to get yeah, we just didn't want you to feel like we were making you be something, right? No, no, no.

Liz: 56:18

That is the true mean.

Sam: 56:19

All right, then we just didn't like didn't want to. I'm sorry I put you in a box, Malia. No, you're a makeup question. I also really want this. Do you guys saw the Steph Carey? Someone asked him about a play, and he was like, Oh, I was like Heli in Paramour, was like Steph Carey's answer to a question about how he thought about himself in that game. And I just was like, We love that. Right? Like, I just want it to be like, you know what my walkout song is? It's like, it's like when the people do the sad, not good for karaoke songs at group karaoke, but they're really banging and they like need to do it. That's it's okay, right? Like I want it to be unexpected. I love that it's unexpected, that it's like I want something moody. Good times. All right. Um, this was a fantastic episode. Um, folks who have been at LT's events and classes talking about Smart Girl. Thank you so much, Liz and Malia, for joining us. Um, and just thanks for being awesome.

LT: 57:25

Yeah, I I just want to say to Liz, we owe each other a Nintendo store date and to get some tea. That's right. We do. So we will make it.

Liz: 57:36

I'm always done for the Nintendo store. I'm you see, I'm really excited about it.

LT: 57:39

Yeah, two nerds getting tea. That's another whole other episode. I love it. And then Malia, I will be in LA in February. And so I will be celebrating the one-year anniversary somewhere in West LA. Um, I'll be sure to let you know. Please bring your mom if she's available to come as well, too. So I'll reach out to you about that.

Sam: 58:00

Go do a LACMA visit.

Maliah: 58:02

Like, go be art people. My mom loves museums, so if that's what you want to do, she's definitely gonna be down. Let me event plan.

Sam: 58:12

Right from a I really love it. Thank y'all. Thank you.