Second Drink! The First Gen & Juice episode feat. Martha Enciso (BONUS episode)

In this episode, LT and Sam go behind the scenes of First Gen & Juice, a practitioner-driven anthology that turns pop culture, such as Barbie, Oppenheimer, K-pop, comics, Tupac, even The Godfather, into ready-to-use lessons for classrooms, advising, and staff development. Born from a standing-room-only conference session, the book responds to a simple but urgent request from educators: don’t just tell us why pop culture works, show us how.

We talk with co-editor Martha Enciso about advising offices lined with action figures, writing classes built on cinematic analysis, and why confidence is often the missing ingredient in first-gen student writing. Martha breaks down how cultural touchstones lower defenses in hard conversations, while LT unpacks the editorial blueprint that makes this book so usable: every chapter includes activities, prompts, or week-by-week plans you can copy, remix, and teach tomorrow. 

 The only homework: buy the book:

https://adeii.health/first-gen-and-juice-exploring-first-gen-college-student-narratives-in-pop-culture-and-mass-media

Go here for the Smart Girl experience:

https://www.smartgirlbook.com/

Transcript

Welcome And Season Shift To Culture

Sam 0:03

Hello friends, we're back for the Smart Girl podcast. Uh this well, I'll tell you about this episode in a second, but Smart Girl, the podcast, um started out and still is about the fantastic book, brimming off the fantastic book by Dr. Latanya Reese Miles. Uh and uh now we're really shifting into thinking about culture, and part of that is because LT and I are just two nerds talking about all the things, and that's really how we bonded uh in graduate school. We are both English PhDs. I'm Sam Pinto, Dr. Sam Pinto, if you're nasty, uh and that's what we did, that's what we talked about all the time, all the time, all the time, visiting each other's classes, getting excited when my students could hit the right beat for um Prince's Kiss, right? When they knew they knew when the music was gonna start, you know. Um that's really where we come from, and that's what we're bringing to this new season is really talking about cultural analysis, and we're inviting other nerds of all kinds to come and talk to us too. Come on, nerds, come through. That's right, come through. And today we have an amazing guest. And can I say fellow nerd? Is that cool? All right, excellent, because that's a honorific around here, as we know.

LT 1:50

Everybody don't get to be called that.

Sam 1:52

That's right, that's right. Um, we've got a discussion of because she can't rest ever. Lt's new book co-edited, co-created with her great, brilliant friend, Dr. Martha Nciso, who is joining us today. LT is gonna tell us more about Martha, about this collaboration for the book First Gen and Juice. So exciting. Yeah, I can't wait. Tell us more, LT. Tell us about Martha.

LT 2:30

I will tell you about Martha. So this is such a great story. And Martha and I are gonna tell this story on Jennifer Hudson's show someday.

Meet Martha And The First-Gen Nerd Origin

Speaker 2 2:39

How spirit tunnel, I'm here for it.

LT 2:42

Yeah. We were in the same in a Facebook group that I started, empowering first-gen students, and there was a conference. It was the first ever conference about the that had a focus on first-gen students. It's called student success in higher education, um, often known, referred to as Ashley. And I just put a little note in the Facebook group, which was like, anyone want to do something, uh do a panel on first gen comics, superheroes, right? And Martha responded, and history was made, my people. That was back in what 2018, end of 2018, going into 2019. Um, and then uh lo and behold, Martha at that time I was living in LA. Martha was also in SoCal, although we met for the first time in Florida, and we have been collaborating ever since. So, Martha, welcome to the Smart Girl podcast. Tell us a little bit more about you.

Martha 3:44

Sure. Thank y'all. It's great to be in the space. Uh, so as they mentioned, my name's uh Martha, Dr. Martha Nciso. I'm currently an adjunct faculty in the School of Ed over at the University of Redlands, and I've really liked to do things a little bit different has been a pattern in my career. So taking the knowledge that I've learned, the people um that I've met along the way, and then just helping students learn, but in a different format, taking something that we love uh and really can relate to, but applying it to things that we need to know. So it's great to finally have this book come out to to share with the with folks on how we can do that together.

LT 4:27

Okay, so another common thing is you of course I didn't want to do it initially, right? That's just the theme of my life. Um I was like, no, no, I don't want to do a book because First Gen and Juice was an Instagram actually, First Gen and Juice star started off as a as a blog, then it turned into a t-shirt, then it turned into an Instagram account, and I was really content with that. And so credit to Martha for really um pushing the idea of actually creating a book. So thank you. Thank you, lady.

Martha 4:58

Yeah, it was time. People asked for the book, so it was time.

From Advising To Cultural Critique

Sam 5:03

I can't wait to talk to you all more about that decision making. Uh, and yes, I love that line in in LT's work on life. Like, I'm good. I don't need to do more of that. No, I do, I do, and then it of course blossoms, blooms, brims, whatever B-word you want to use, it goes. Um, okay, so you just told us you two met on the infamous first gen Facebook group and bonded over superhero and comics culture. Tell us more about how you, Martha, came to cultural criticism from your scholarship pedagogy and administrative work in education, right? Because not everyone would see that as a natural flow. And then LT, tell us how you made this cultural criticism English major um jump to the education space. Uh, was one of the most remarkable things about the book is how it merges those two.

Martha 6:06

Yeah, so I'm I think back to my advisor days and then trying to relay information to students. So there's obviously the the jargon that we use in higher ed and all the processes and policies and things, but that can be kind of boring uh when you're talking to a student, right? So if we're trying to help the student out, we have to think of different ways uh that we can get the same information through. And for me, it's always been about relating it to something that could be a little bit more fun, or maybe there's some shared uh experiences that I may have with the student. So even in the way that I decorate my office, it's always been with a bunch of toys from uh from different uh cartoons, movies, etc. But so they get to know a little bit more about myself. So I think in the way to share identities, not just the visible, but some of the invisible and share interests is a way that we can create that bond with the student. Um, so that's pretty much the first way that I started to do this work without truly recognizing that I was doing this work. Uh and having that, creating that space where we can just talk freely and discuss things. Yes, the important things that they needed to know, but let's just chit-chat as people, as humans, about things that we can enjoy to build that great bond so then students can feel a little bit more connected and that create that sense of belonging for folks. So I've carried that through the different roles since I started as an advisor and been an administrator uh and now teaching to continue that, whether it's with undergraduates or uh masters and doc students. And I've also used this too in managing staff. So sometimes it's been love that. Yeah, it's been really helpful to take some tough situations and uh movements and changes happening at the institution and being able to just step away from it a little bit and to relate it to whether it's uh uh the Avengers movie with Thanos and all that, the the snap and all the things, um, or relating it to something else that we read or we watched to ease the tension a little bit. And that's really helped out with staff as well. So we could take it a little bit more beyond the the classroom. So it's been a good like I mentioned, it's it was something I was doing but didn't recognize that this is what it's called. Oh, I love that.

Teaching With Tupac, Godfather, And Voice

LT 8:25

As for me, um because I ended up borrowing some things from Martha later when I moved into student affairs administration, but my life prior to that was on the academic affairs side. I'm gonna declare that I was a little too early for American studies. Um the field of American studies um really came uh not came out, but um really developed while I was already in my grad program in the English department. And so I was I came into graduate school already sort of activated around hip hop and sports and popular culture, and then just and even my dissertation itself probably lent itself more to American studies, um, but it fit it fit into literature. So I was kind of already there. But I think what ended up happening um in Sam and I bond over this was when I was teaching. And in particular, one of my favorite classes to teach was this one called English A, which was for students who um so stupid, they didn't pass this writing exam while they were in high school and probably would stayed up too late and you know whatnot and didn't pass it, but they had to take this kind of small group of students had to take this class before they went on to credit bearing writing classes. And really the point of that class was to just get them, give them some confidence, get them excited about learning however way you want to do it. Now, some people focus on rules and grammar and all that type of stuff. And for me, I really focused on I remember um Tupac lyrics, I remember um teaching the Godfather one class where I made them watch The Godfather and they had to pick the one scene where Michael becomes the godfather, not and you can't they couldn't argue this is the whole movie, right? And this is really about like focus and like building an argument and uh and it could be all and they could see oh someone thought this and someone thought, yeah, and they weren't they were all right, right? But you had to you had to build it up. So for me, that uh Sam to answer a question came very organically. This this it didn't even feel like oh I'm making a shift, but this blending of cultural criticism and um scholarship to higher education.

Speaker 2 11:04

I love this and just uh same z about teaching English A, uh, which was often first generation students, it was often first generation college, but also first generation American students. Athletes athletes and kids who came from ESL backgrounds were so much the population that got funneled into there and they were brilliant and fantastic. And you know, yeah, were you gonna spend the time teaching grammar rules, right? When that wasn't really it. And so much of it, um, just as a connection, so much of advising and teaching, right, can feel um like that's where you see the stuff all come together and also feel the complexities of whatever it is you think as a theory uh come to its head and like unmake themselves, right? And that's where I really do think, yes, both of you ahead of your time, and I do think uh uh ahead of the curve for American studies, right? But also for a different kind of advising, right? And a different kind of relationship uh to students than necessarily the one that um that we've been talking about. And of course, I'm thinking about LT decorating the uh McNair and AAP advising office as well. Yeah, yeah, so many connections between like what is there to represent the you, but also the group that you're advising, right? That makes connections. And I love Martha that you said easing tensions. Um that's that's uh felt deep even as a manager and administrator. Um so speaking of all of this and the way you both talked about teaching and advising, um, this book is the definition of collaboration, I feel like. Uh, and I like to plug it on my Tribe Media Project, which I love. Shout out. Um tell us more about how your conference gig snowballed into this book. Um, what you looked for when you were putting together contributors and essays, um, and why it was important to both of you to make this into a book project and a project in print. And you can answer all of those, some of those, etc. But basically, like, how did this go from a whole bunch of conference presentations that you beautifully lay out in your intro to then we're gonna make a book? How are we gonna do that? How are we gonna put this together? And why?

LT 13:51

Martha, I'll let you go first. I'll I want to talk about the contributors. So I'll let you if you if you want, how about you start with like the conferences and all that?

Why The Book Exists And For Whom

Martha 14:00

Yeah, I think we were pleasantly surprised the first time uh we did the the session because we didn't know what to expect. We're come up with this idea and we thought, hey, maybe we might get like two people, maybe no, who knows who shows up. But it was a crowded room, and we had folks who are like, hey, I found I feel like I have found my place, I found my people. Uh, we were all geeking out about different uh fandoms and such, and you could see the happiness in the room. So for me, that was really that's so true.

LT 14:31

That's so true. Because people were sitting on the floor, Sam.

Martha 14:35

Yeah, it was incredible. We were very pleased that we're like, whoa, I think we're on to something. Uh, but tapping into a community within a community in higher ed to to bring people together and the folks are doing this. So once we started doing a couple more presentations, people were really interested in the okay, cool, I like it, and I know that some people are doing it, but how do you go about doing this? Um, especially for folks who aren't too comfortable or might not have uh one particular fandom or are starting to get into it a little bit more. So they were really focusing on the how piece. Uh so we wanted to, we did sessions on how to do it, but they said, not thank you, but like what does the syllabi look like? I don't know, I really know for real, like how. Yeah, like how how. Like break it down for me. Like, literally give me the the pieces that I need to do this. Uh so that's what really spiral into hey, we should put a book together because we know some people are out there doing some great work. So let's bring them all together and have a different tone to this book. So it's not uh academic in regard to we're criticizing something from a different, more academic kind of lens, but really taking it and focusing on a practitioner and practitioner being very broad, so it doesn't necessarily have to be higher ed. Um, you could be in a different field. I'm thinking also like folks who do maybe uh camps or high schools and such, you could still use a lot of this um within the different age groups. So I think it's just making learning a little bit more fun, and it's it's honestly just a you could copy paste basically because the contributors have done an excellent job. Uh some folks have done it week by week that they're breaking things down. Some folks uh provided questions, other provided uh even illustrations of some of the work uh and presentation. So it's something that you can review, tweak, make it make sense for your campus and resources, and then implement, but literally a how-to with this book.

Building A Practical How-To Anthology

LT 16:30

And then Martha mentioned that there were people we knew that was doing this work. I'm gonna name one of them in particular, James Winfield. James, who I've known for a long time, uh, he was an original um member of the black first gen collective, had gotten to a point where I I I don't remember how often he had a pretty regular cadence on LinkedIn where he was writing these these like short essays about specific well, he was talking about first gens in pop culture. I pointed out to him that hey, by the way, everyone you're talking about is black. Um, but he was like regularly doing these things. And I and so I reached out to him. I was like, James, why don't you and I don't even I don't even know that I gave him a choice to be honest. I was like, Martha and I put in together this book, you need to contribute to this book. Um and so I think for most people, Martha, I think you would agree, they're like, Me? Are you sure it's me, right? Yeah, um, and we were really blown away. I I will say this, and we may get into it a little bit more. We wanted to be squarely talking about the first gen experience, not just like student transitioning. Great, and we didn't just want people to talk about how much they love Hamilton or whatever, whatever, right? Um, so we were looking for you know some specific things, but we were just in awe of the things that were submitted. And no, we didn't even put this out there, Sam, but we ended up getting um uh an essay about Oppenheimer, the movie, and the person who is first gen, right? People don't think about man, that's a whole other conversation. And that's the lead-off essay. That's the lead essay because that's so so surprising. Fucking good. Shout out to Matt Newland and then Barbie, like, oh my gosh, like we did not plan that, you guys. They were just so good. Um, and um, and we just want to show our appreciation to these writers, most of whom also identify as first gen. We could talk more about that as well, too. But um, so we tapped a few people on the shoulder, we also put out a call, and we're just really just so pleased with what was submitted.

Speaker 2 19:04

And it really is amazing. And I'm gonna tweak this next question as I often do to go with the flow of our conversation. Um, uh, and partially because you're telling me, which I think is great, that the the arc of the book and its practical use was its purpose, right? It wasn't just a it wasn't just happenstance, right? It was a feature. Um so can you tell us how you guided the essays based on that? Because some have a lot, right? Of, you know, week by week, and it's clearly how they were even conceived, right? Some don't, right? Um, some have one lesson plan, etc. So you've clearly allowed a lot of freedom. How did you guide folks who were writing without that necessarily at top of mind, right? When you were fielding submissions, right? How did you talk to them about including those practical aspects? Uh, and how is editing those kinds of materials?

Editing For Clarity, Flexibility, And Joy

Martha 20:10

I think one of the main things we were very blunt about, even in the coffer programs, was it has to have that component of uh an activity, questions, lesson plans, a course, you name it, but it really has to be practical in nature. It's not a critique, like LT was saying, it's not a critique of something, as we may quote unquote traditionally see in other uh books, journals, etc. But we really wanted to focus on the how, making it really flexible for folks uh and in the range too. So some folks might only want it to utilize it for a program or an event, others might be developing courses. So we wanted that flexibility for the authors too to include what made sense for them in their practice, but also realizing that a whole semester or a whole quarter is not what's needed for some of the readers. They might just need something for that one week or that month. So we wanted uh to have some flexibility in there, and also I think for some of the contributors, it was also doing away with the way we're taught to write. So the way that we're uh taught to formally be academics and scholars and to kind of make it a little bit uh different in regard to, hey, anybody should be able to pick it up and really get an understanding. For myself, I was introduced to some new fandoms and characters and such too that after reading their chapter, I'm like, yeah, I want to learn a little bit more. Uh, but not knowing all the things about all the fandoms, I think also helped for as a co-editor because I was also able to probe a little bit more with the authors and ask them to, hey, can you share a little bit about the background of the character? Can you tell me why this character is important or the process or the transformation, etc., of the character? Uh, so why the the why piece also stood out and helping guide the the authors to really delve into a little bit more about like, oh yeah, because I'm so into This one character or so into this one movie or song that I kind of forget that not everybody knows about this. So how do we bring people in while we're trying to do this work?

LT 22:10

Yeah. Oh, that's such a good point, Martha. I was thinking about some on some folks in particular. And I think for me, um, my role, not that we plan it this way, was really about helping people find their voice. And I think you will like you can hear the author's voices. Martha's a good example of this because I remember you were uncertain about how to start your essay on um on Luca. And I was like, no, no, no. Start it like this, right? And it just sounds just like you. What what did it how how does it go again, Martha?

Martha 22:45

Oh yeah, my nephew wanted me to watch the movie Luca, and I was just like, dang it, it's another movie about like another uh person, human, whatever, turning into a fish. It's kind of reluctant about it. And then LT's like, no, put that in the book, put that in there. That was your experience with the movie. And it makes it I and it made a big difference. It made it come alive, but I too like mentioned LT, it was tough to break away of the traditional way of writing.

LT 23:10

Yeah, it did make it, I I think from the because you were, I know you were like in your head a little bit about it, and then once you had that feedback, you kind of ran with it. And then um I love the interplay in the Barbie um uh essay, um, where they they really like they they like introduce themselves in the piece. It's really fun, you know? Yeah, and so it's about 10 essays, but they're all so like distinctive voices, I I would say.

Self-Publishing For Control And Community

Speaker 2 23:44

I I love this. Um when you say sounds just like you, or I think we all often say in the classroom, like write, write the problem, like write not write past the problem, right? But that the thing that they think is keeping them from writing is actually what they need to write. Um that's the biggest thing, right? Like that's the thing they need to write rather than figuring it out. So I loved hearing that. Um, and it made me, of course, completely change the next thing I'm gonna ask you because you've already anticipated all of this. Um so this volume really merges cultural studies and education as academic disciplines, uh, and you're both veterans, scholars, teachers, and administrators. Um, higher ed often silos out its disciplines, also makes us feel like writing needs to sound a certain way or be a certain way or be structured a certain way. I know in my classrooms I often say um the how you sound when you're trying to sound smart. And like that's the it's never the way, like you're actually the smartest, as I often tell them. I was like, I performance I've had to Zoom teach this week, and I joke about Zoom teaching. The thing I loved about it was the group chat, and that's the thing I want to reproduce because the group chat was where people were themselves. They were like, let me tell you my hot take about Solange, and I am like here for it, right? Like that's what I am here for. Um, and that's where like the good stuff was happening, right? Um, and and so anyway, when thinking about that, um, and those kinds of silos where educational articles look or sound like this, cultural studies or analysis article analysis articles look or sound like this, like Hamilton, you know, does X, Y, and Z. Um student-centered admins should look or sound like this, as you were talking about, about your experience of sort of breaking the mold of what student advising should be. So, how did this book, as you made it and how it turned out, change your own view of your field or your jobs or careers? And that's where I'm gonna shift the question because I want to know. Um, I I see the way you put it together. I'm hearing all the really thoughtful ways that you were like, this has to be practical. And yet that anecdote that you just told, that experience, Martha, of you yourself needing LT to sort of like give you that permission to write as yourself, right? About Luca was such an amazing moment where even when you have all the tools and you're asking other people to put them in place, you're you're challenged by the experience. So I'm just really curious, as you see this finished product, um, how would the book change you or change your view of your jobs, your fields, your careers?

What Changed For The Writers And Editors

Martha 26:47

In writing, but also in editing, it reminded me too about how we work with first gen students and how sometimes uh first gen's don't see the the strengths that they have and the assets that they bring with them and that they could actually do this because there's so much pressure to fit in and to find the ways to do it, quote unquote c correctly or right and all the things. Uh but in this book kind of felt the same way that it was disrupting the norm of writing and publishing on our own terms, uh, to be able to really bring folks in rather than uh push people out for whatever prestige or or whatever uh people think is important. But it for us it was more important to really focus on the community and highlight the community and also to make folks aware that you can bring people together. We can bring all these experiences, all these disciplines and all these um backgrounds and institution tie, all the things from folks and really make these highlight these and make these really wonderful things for people to feel comfortable sharing, but also for people to then empower the reader to do the same thing when they start doing the work. I think that's one piece too that sometimes when we read some of the work and things where we don't feel that comfort or that confidence. And I'm hoping that the readers, once they pick up the book and start for whatever point they want to chapter they want to start in, that they see that they too can do this, that they have the tools in their toolbox, that they do have the power, the superpowers to be able to do this work in their own spaces.

LT 28:35

Uh let me focus on the writers and also go back and say there was a moment initially this was gonna be published on a tradition in a traditional press. Yes. And the the publisher that we were speaking with got acquired by someone else, and we were like, we're like, oh, you know, do we want to go with this new one? And Martha again said, Let's do it under my tribe. So one of the one of the things that we talk about on this podcast is self-publishing, right? And how you can do these things. And I was like, Are you sure? You can't and so we did it. And it's just been we we keep saying how much we've learned, but that also is a form of empowerment. We have a designer that we work with so regularly, another woman of color. And I mean being able to for us to say this is how we want this book to look, this is the cover that we want, this is the font that we want, right? Um, but then for me, we we had a we had a um we had like an online launch a couple months ago, and we got to hear from every single one of the contributors. So it was nice to have everyone in the same space because you know, as editors, we get to read everything, but we, you know, they didn't, you know, they weren't communicating with one another. And just to hear them talk about what this process has meant for them and that they feel validated for the things that they are passionate about, that has just really moved me. And two things in particular, one of the writers, uh uh Brenda, wrote this really long post on Facebook that she she co-authored with her best friend, and she just talked about what that felt like. She so Sam, she contrasted the experience of writing this book with another writing experience that they had.

Martha 30:31

And and uh yeah, yeah.

LT 30:34

And how um how they were expecting like they they were pleasantly surprised at the feedback that they were like we were like coaching them up and affirming them, and so that there was that. Um, and then I just want to acknowledge Ariella's chapter on K-pop. It's so good, it is so good. Um and I think when you I bring that as an example because you might think, K-pop, you a grown woman, you are a doctor. Why are you talking about K-pop? And she does it so brilliantly. And one of the things you one might ask is where else was she going to put this work? And so I feel I feel very honored. Martha, I don't know if you want to say anything else, but I feel honored to have had that space where she could really be herself, and she talked about that.

What’s Next: New First-Gen Stories And Recs

Martha 31:31

Yeah. And she was working on her dissertation at the time, too. So which is not on K-pop. No, definitely not on K pop. Uh but I asked her, she was one of the authors uh we tapped, and I asked her because I know she's been presenting on this work too. She's done several presentations and folks are really excited about it. And I asked, Hey, you know, in your spare time, which I know you don't have much of while you're writing your dissertation, let's work on a chapter. And you could tell that it in a way, I think it for her, it was also very much uh a good break from the other kind of writing that she had to do because she was writing about something that she enjoys, um, the joy that she shares with her team and students. Uh, so it came a little bit more naturally, which I think helped her to balance uh the other type of writing that she was doing at the time.

LT 32:23

Well put, well put.

Speaker 2 32:25

I love this, right? Uh creating different spaces and especially uh reflecting back on your first comment, first answer part of the answer to this question, um, Martha, which is thinking about first gen students, uh thinking about all the code switching that um many people have to do in academia. Um and and that we do when we wear our different hats. This is my administrative, you know, I call it my dean drag, right? That I put on, right? This is, you know, etc. And thinking about places to give that kind of energy of like you don't, you don't have to, you don't have to, you know, put put that on here, right? Uh, and what that gave to the authors, but also how what that gave to you all um to reflect back as a whole project on what that did for everyone included, which I loved. Um so Martha, we have a tradition here, partially based on uh the fact that LT had not one, not one but two soundtracks for Smart Girl. Not one but two. I just want to be clear. Even though she made her students choose the one scene for Michael Corleone, calling you out.

LT 33:43

That's right. Um it was a dare. That's why I created the second one. It was a dare from a mutual friend, a mutual friend of me and Martha, Justin. Justin dared me to create the second one.

Speaker 2 33:54

She had to accept what choice, yeah. Um uh and as an Italian American, I just want to like applaud the godfather part as well, and really think about that with you at some point. Um, when I would have watched far too young, far too young. Uh anyway, uh we have a tradition, Martha, of asking about a something pop culture at the end, and it was music, and now we're broadening. And in the spirit of first gen and juice, um, I want to say any published work takes a long time from concept to finish line. So this book was a long time in the making. You might not want to talk about Luca anymore, for instance, right? You you kind of never do. He was mad, but then she went to in the first place, right? Uh, we we here at Smart Girl always appreciate a what to watch or listen to or read next tip. So here's my question for both of you on the way out. What's lighting each of you up now in terms of pop culture, media, and first gen stories?

LT 35:11

I'll let you go first and let me. Okay, okay. So uh not immediately, okay. It's just imagine a pot that's on the back of the stove, just simmering, just simmering, okay. I am really attuned to representations of first gen in Silicon Valley. So that that first gen professional experience, there are a number of memoirs, a couple of TV shows, a couple of novels even of folks. Because how do you you know such a such a niche industry, right? Um, how do you talk to your parents and families about this work, about venture capital? Oh, about startup culture. Um, that kind of that started for me actually when I read um uh the the the small fry. It's written by Steve Jobs' daughter. And Steve Jobs, people don't know about this, but Steve himself was first gen, but he dropped out of school, right? So he started and then finished. His daughter ended up going to Stanford, but she talked about how she had to figure that out by herself because as as wealthy as Steve was, he had not he didn't understand college. And so she was literally figuring this out by herself. I just started for me a while ago, but now so people please send me send me the TV shows and you know fiction novels and uh yeah, and things like that about folks who are first in their families that go on to work in tech in Silicon Valley. It's a thing.

Speaker 2 37:00

I have a podcast I taught last semester for uh uh Latinos in tech podcast was the was the podcast. I think it was called that, but I'll make sure. But there was a particular podcast on being first gen. And I have to tell you that I that's the one I taught that episode. I'll find it and send it to you. It was the thing bar none that my students connected to the most.

LT 37:25

I can't wait.

Speaker 2 37:26

The most like that was the most comments I got, and we were doing like Oprah movies of Henrietta Laps and stuff like that. Like and and we did Alita, like we did sci-fi movies, we did whatever. That they were like that podcast was it. So I just wanted to tell you that.

LT 37:43

I don't know. Sorry, I don't know what that's gonna turn into. I'm all I'm at the stage, I'm just acquiring.

Speaker 2 37:48

You're just thinking, acquiring, you're building your archive.

LT 37:51

I'm building my archive just on the stove, it's on the stove.

Speaker 2 37:55

Martha, Martha is laughing. Oh, sorry, sorry, as as we simmer, Martha, tell us what you're thinking.

Closing And How To Get The Book

Martha 38:02

For I don't have a specific uh but idea or niche and stuff. I just like to watch, listen, and read things. I think uh I've trained the brain to look for these things where I'm just watching something and I'm like, oh my gosh, and I'll text all to you right away. I'm watching something or listening to something. That's a true story right there. So it's more of bringing in uh even just going to the movie. I did this with uh when we I watched Leland Stitch with my sister Megan. I'm like, oh my gosh, uh noting is a transverse, she's like, oh my gosh, Martha, can't you just watch the movie? Like just let it just go, just go watch the movie. So I I think it's for me, it's just first taking it all in and starting to notice things, then just making sure I uh make it either texting LT, making a note about it, uh in my little notebook and things, but just being more aware of it and just collecting that way first. Um, but just taking it all in. But yeah, the brains uh told my sister, I'm like, sorry, but the brain's wired this way now. So yeah. I love this.

Speaker 2 39:11

As you can tell from our English majoriness, uh, I will I will end with a just a story that was like that, where I was sitting next to my sister, like home on winter break from I think grad school, and um we're watching the Shawshank Redemption, and my sister is like six and a half years younger than me. And when they introduce the um the redheaded like villain character within the prison, um, when you find out that he also is enacting like queer sexual relations, I don't say a word. And my sister's sitting next to me, and she goes, shut up, just shut up. You're thinking. Yeah, so Alex, if you're listening, this is a shout out to you. She could hear my thinking, and she was like, Don't ruin the Shaw Shank for me. And I often deliver that to my class as like, I would like you to ruin things. Thank you.

unknown 40:15

Right?

LT 40:16

Shout out to Alex. What up, girl?

Speaker 2 40:18

Yeah, I like that. Alex, yeah. So there you go. Shut up. Just shut up for thank you. I love it. Um, this was just glorious. I am so excited to use this book in teaching to recommend it to folks. Um, the how to part of it, as well as the breadth of examples and cases, is just phenomenal. Um, it's it's a gift to anyone working in an educational space at all. Uh, truly thank you so much for being with us, Martha. Um, and we're smart girl. We're talking about first gen and culture for this season and the foreseeable future. Yeah. Uh, and we can't wait to hear from you about suggestions. And we can't wait to see you next time. That's just a different word than see.

LT 41:19

Before we go, before we go, just want to let people know that the book is first gen in juice. Uh um, I forget the I forget what comes after the colon. Something about first gen. Exploring first gen narrative. Exploring. I know the e-word. Exploring. Um, and it is available uh as an ebook and as a print book. Martha and I are available to speak on your college campuses, to zoom in, to be there in person. Look for us at Comic-Con in San Diego and other places. So just a shout out. Just wanted to let people know. And let us know what you think about the book. Oh, that too.

Speaker 2 42:02

Yeah. Deeply. I love it. Yeah, I love it. We'll have all the links for you up as well. And so we'll make sure that you can get it. And I'm uh we'll make sure you have your Latinos who tech uh link uh that I talked about too. But anything that we've been talking about, we'll we'll try to link up too. And I just threw that in the chat. Um, thank you all. We will see you next time on Smart Girls out the podcast.