"I'm the drum major in a different way" feat William Patterson

What stories did Remember the Titans leave out? In part two of a special three-part Smart Girl series, La’Tonya “LT” Rease Miles and Sam Pinto sit down with William “Slinky” Patterson, a longtime family friend, T.C. Williams alum, and the school’s first Black drum major. Patterson takes listeners inside a turbulent era of school integration, reflecting on entering high school at just 12 years old, navigating subtle racism in the classroom, and finding refuge and healing in music. From the band room to the soundtrack of the late 1960s, Patterson offers a powerful firsthand account of an Alexandria history that extends far beyond the football field. This special series is made possible with support from Virginia Humanities.

Here's the court case that Mr. Patterson mentions: https://www.courthousenews.com/dc-circuit-tosses-child-slavery-suit-against-chocolate-giants-for-lack-of-standing/

Go here for the Smart Girl experience:

https://www.smartgirlbook.com/

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Sam 0:42

memoir, Smart Girl. Emergence of a whole group of folks from T C Williams and the Alexandria area. What was T C Williams High School in the Alexandria area coming through? And now talking to us about the mythic season memorialized in Remember the Titans, the 2000 movie with Denzel Washington. And we're getting like the real scoop, the behind-the-scenes scoop. And we have a fantastic guest today. La'Tonya is going to introduce drum major from the era, philanthropist, wonderful person, William Patterson. La'Tonya, can you tell us? Can you introduce our illustrious guest today?

LT 1:40

Absolutely, I can. Thank you, Sam. So, Mr. William "Slinky" Patterson, I've literally known my whole life. Like I don't even remember a time when he wasn't there. So uh Slinky, as I know him, has known me since I was a lowercase T, not a capital T. So I'm super excited to have him here today to talk about his experience. Hey Slinky, thanks for joining us today.

William Patterson 2:05

Hello, hello.

LT 2:06

Oh, and you got the radio voice. This is so perfect. Right? We're gonna bring this back. This is old school style, y'all. Um, Slinky, we are really interested and invested in hearing about your experience at TC Williams and being a drum major. Listen, we're gonna go on record and say, had that storyline been included in the

Starting High School At Twelve

LT 2:35

movie Remember the Titans, it would have probably been 10 times better. But before we get to that part, can you tell us how did you even get to that high school? Because when you my understanding is that at the time there were still there were three high schools still. It wasn't just the one um TC Williams that I ended up attending. How did you get there? And was it your local school?

William Patterson 2:59

Well, as I told you before, it was kind of a turbulent period for me. Um, especially um that I was 12 years old.

LT 3:12

Okay. What do you mean? Like I record scratch. Record scratch. What do you mean you were 12 years old? How how why were you 12 years old going to high school?

William Patterson 3:25

Uh my mom started me out early. So I was 12 turning 13. I graduated at 16. So that's that's the way my matriculation went.

LT 3:37

That's incredible. Shout out to mom for that. Um, it sounds like you would have had to been at least academically advanced or prepared. Do you think that was the case?

William Patterson 3:50

Uh I'm not sure. Uh I never I never really looked back over it. And once you uh contacted me, and I'm saying that was a blurred-out period.

LT 4:01

Uh oh.

William Patterson 4:03

So here I was, uh, my father's a minister, as you know. Um, so we lived at um on King Street, 1417 King Street. And um I um I had gotten here uh from North Carolina.

LT 4:19

Yay, the homeland.

William Patterson 4:21

Yeah, when I was 10 years old, we came here. Uh so in a couple of years I was starting high school, and so it was like uh I just woke up and you know, all right, here's the school you go into. So I had I had gone to uh Jefferson uh for middle school and Prince Street for elementary school. So it it seems though the that period, which was a very turbulent period, um not only was Alexandria going through transition, but America was going through transition as a result of Brown versus the School Board and so on and so forth. And so everybody was trying to figure out with these new rules, uh, how how do you function? And so at 12, that was you know a little strange.

LT 5:17

That's a lot for a 12-year-old.

William Patterson 5:20

Yeah.

LT 5:21

Now, do you know -- was TC your local? Like, how did you actually get to school? Did you take the bus or did you walk? How close were you?

William Patterson 5:31

Yeah, we uh uh I lived on King Street, right? And so you know the the main bus line was King Street, and so I just get up, walk at the bus stop, and get on the bus. It was free. And so I would go what 10, 10, 15 miles up the street because TC is on King Street.

LT 5:55

Exactly. Now, did your schoolmates know you were 12 years old? Did they pick on you? What was that like?

William Patterson 6:04

Um I I I don't really recall, um, but there wasn't a lot of discussion around age because some students were older. Um, and so you know, I just kind of it's it's hard to be be um uh invisible when you're 6'6. I was I was I was almost 6'6 at 12 as well.

LT 6:30

What? Okay, you kind of skipped that part. I didn't know when the growth spurt happened.

William Patterson 6:36

Well, I don't know. I I I guess the more appropriate question is is when did the the growth uh spurt stop? Because I was 12 years old, I wore size 12 shoes, and I kind of -- I stopped growing. So I was I was six five and I probably grew another um three-quarters of an inch, so I'm really um you know not quite six six, but I stopped growing.

LT 7:07

That's incredible.

William Patterson 7:08

Well, yeah, um

Growing Up During National Upheaval

LT 7:10

We we want to hear definitely about your how you became a drum major and what your experience was like, but you've described several times that how turbulent this was. What did what was that? Can you give an example of that? What was that like for you? What did that mean to you?

William Patterson 7:27

Well, with all the things that was happening in the community, the assassination of Martin Luther King and so on and so forth, the church played a significant role. Uh, I do recall uh during the Poor People's March, um, that um they marched straight through Alexandria and uh the shades were drawn at people's homes, people were afraid what was getting ready to happen, and so on and so forth. And so I remember just kind of looking out the window, and then my uncle, uh Dancy, Uncle Dancy, that owned Dancy's barbershop on Queen Street, um, I would go up there to work. Um, and and and we had to go over into DC to pick up supplies for the barbershop, and you would see Tent City, what we call Tent City, right? And and all of the poor people, uh black poor people was congregated uh uh to the side when you go across 14th Street Bridge, and it was just a a different period, and that's when he made the the well-known speech. Uh yeah, yeah. So it was it was different, it was different, and so I was just trying to navigate through um this transition of being of growing up because that's that's a transitional period, you know. We weren't even transitioning into adulthood, I was transitioning into uh you know the into a teen. Teens, yeah. Well, moving to 13.

LT 9:06

Oh my gosh, that's incredible. What do you what do you remember, if anything, what do you remember about the school itself or being in class or or anything like that? You know, the the movie in particular, even though we don't need to get all into it, but you know, shows tension between the the the races. What what was that experience like for you in the school itself?

William Patterson 9:33

In the school itself there was a distinct separation. Uh people didn't intermingle, you know. Uh it it was uh lines were very were drawn. It it was subtle, but you knew that there were clicks and you were in a small click, if you will, you know, which was black. Um in the classroom it was very subtle, but you realize that academically uh you were a guest in the classroom, sorta, if you will. It wasn't inclusive when when when you were answering questions or you raised your hands. Um you you could tell.

LT 10:39

I can't imagine what that was like for a 12, 13-year-old boy to experience that, like you said, in the midst of all this national politics as well, too. And that's incredible. Um

Subtle Separation Inside The School

LT 10:55

How is it then that you became the drum major? Did you have experience with this? What was the audition like?

Sam 11:04

And let me just say how bold and amazing that you're you know younger than most of your peers, and you're like, yeah, I'm I'm gonna be the drum major, right?

William Patterson 11:17

Well, but it didn't happen like that.

LT 11:21

Oh, we can't wait.

William Patterson 11:24

I had um I had started playing the clarinet in in elementary school, and so I was already involved with music, and of all the um instructors that I resonated to, I can only remember one instructor. Uh the rest of them were not meaningful, and it was this guy, a white guy named Jack Dahlinger. And Jack Dahlinger was the music instructor at TC Williams, and man was he a wonderful guy, so so inspirational, and so on and so forth. And and I and I resonated uh to him, and he was the one who began to mentor and develop uh me and BB, by the way. Um, but um, but but I remember my interactions with him and the music department. They had this beautiful music department, and it was it was it was away from the school, and it had this really um cutting-edge design, and oh man, I was just so enthused and happy to be involved in the music and what it represented. And so it was it was Jack Dahlinger who came to me um uh at uh at 13 and and and said, I want you to be the drum major. And and uh he said, Would you do it? And I was well you man, I mean, you know, I'm just hanging out with you, and that's how I got to be the drum major.

LT 13:07

That -- I -- More people need to know this story, right? Um I'm wondering what was that like for you and what was the response of people seeing you? Were you the first black to your knowledge? Were you was there other was there another black student that had that role, or were you the first one?

William Patterson 13:31

I was the first.

LT 13:33

Come on now!

William Patterson 13:34

But but I didn't recognize it.

LT 13:36

Why not? How not?

William Patterson 13:39

I wasn't the first black drum major in my head. I was accepting hanging out with Jack Dahlinger, and I was learning music. Music represented structure. So uh regardless of what was happening happening in the environment, I just had all surgery, so I'll mess up every now and then.

LT 14:07

Yeah, for example.

William Patterson 14:08

Um uh what was happening in the environment, music, music thrived in all kinds of environments. And so you had your three-quarter time, three, three, two, two, stick to the structure. You had dynamics, penissimo, metalforte, all of that played a part in music, and he was teaching me how to conduct a very large band, you know. So we had over a hundred members of the band, and so my focus was on the music, not on the era.

LT 14:48

Were you uh conducting the band at the time of the 71 championship team that's represented in the movie Remember the Titans? Or is that did that come after you?

William Patterson 15:01

Well, I graduated in 1970, so I'm

Finding Refuge In The Music Department

William Patterson 15:05

I'm I'm before the movie.

LT 15:07

Yeah, before the movie.

William Patterson 15:08

Yeah, yeah. And so um, you know, that was my transition. And so the movie came out after I left. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

LT 15:23

Um oh Sam, did you want to chime in? Well, well, one of the things that we like to talk about on the podcast is transitions to college. What happened after you graduated from from high school? Did you go to college or what was that like?

William Patterson 15:40

Yeah, I um I went I went to to school and uh Jack Dahlinger got us uh got me a music scholarship.

LT 15:51

Shout out to Jack Dahlinger, whoever you are.

William Patterson 15:55

Yeah, I was on music scholarship and basketball. I played four years of basketball too.

LT 16:00

At TC?

William Patterson 16:02

Yeah, yeah, I was I was on the starting, uh, I started at basketball too. So I had basketball scholarship and music scholarships. The the uh you were asking me about the distinction between, you know, did I feel the the racial stuff? Well, uh Coach Campbell was the uh varsity coach of the of the team. He was also my uh social studies instructor, and there was a big separation. I had no connection at all to him, and so from the classroom, there was this aloofness, if you will. He was very aloof, and then he was my basketball coach, too, and so he did not really put a lot of focus on getting us scholarships, athletic scholarships, and it it the scholarships came, but he didn't really play a role in it, and so I remember one of the scholarships I had was to Cornell University in Ithaca, New York. And before those experiences, I didn't want to go to a white school anymore, yeah. And so um uh you can't ever interview Donald, Donald Allen, because he passed, but uh Donald Allen was the water boy on the basketball team, and Jack Dallinger helped get him a scholarship too. And we were both supposed to go to Cornell and I opted out. Uh, Don went on the Cornell, uh became an attorney and became a judge uh before he died. Uh his his his funeral was so big they closed 495. I said, I've never seen that before. Right. But anyway, uh so I I went to uh I had gotten injured in my last year of college, uh basketball. Or I had a back injury. Um and so I didn't play my last year at all. So a lot of the scholarships kind of backed up, you know, to tentative scholarships.

LT 18:27

That was at high school, right?

William Patterson 18:29

Yeah.

LT 18:29

Okay.

William Patterson 18:30

And so I ended up at Livingston College in Salisbury, North Carolina, because they gave me a full scholarship where other schools were saying we want you to come down, you know, you know. So that that that that's kind of how that went.

LT 18:45

Well, kudos to you. And that means you would have gone at age 16 or 17, right?

William Patterson 18:51

I I I entered uh college at 16 years old.

LT 18:55

Boy genius. You need your own book, smart boy.

William Patterson 19:03

Oh boy. Yeah.

Sam 19:06

What what was it like making that transition, right, to living away and being away at 16?

William Patterson 19:18

Well, when I when I got to school, um I was in the athletic dorm, uh going to school, and I didn't really the the college experience for me was was sort of weird. I bet. Yeah, yeah, it it was weird in that I was on my own, so on and so forth. Uh uh it it it it it was different. It was different. You know, the the world was kind of strange at that point because the intensity of the the racial unrest in the communities. I was in Salisbury, North Carolina. Um clans were openly visible, you know, that kind of thing. And so it was time for me to run back home if you

Scholarships Basketball And College At Sixteen

LT 20:16

yeah, I don't blame you.

William Patterson 20:19

Yeah.

LT 20:21

Well, we don't have to go too deep into it, but we do want to ask about your thoughts on the Remember the Titans movie. I know it was right before your time, but have you seen it and what what are your thoughts about it?

William Patterson 20:37

I saw the movie several times.

LT 20:40

Um what did they get right and what didn't what didn't they get right?

William Patterson 20:47

Well, I don't think they captured the real experiences uh that were going on. Um the inside the classroom experiences were were, you know, to me the most tragic part of it. Because it it it in essence you have an American decision to integrate schools to develop their minds. And the the development was not positive, if you will, for me. Um and so it it is it in it in many ways uh emphasized um what was already happening in the in the community uh when during that period uh and you were coming to school. were supposed to be academic maybe you can turn this in into some structure uh for to to help you um uh manage your way through it and and and and for me it was a uh uh re-traumatization if you will i'm so sorry to hear that very subtle though very subtle it was nice you were nice about it but it's fascinating to hear you keep using the word subtle to talk about the way that i i mean you're i i don't think i'll ever forget your characterization now that you've said it that you were a guest in the classroom and that was made clear to you and it's it's such a taunting way to describe the tragedy of a kind of subtle racism like of integration right and of what happened it is crushing to think about what that must have felt like uh when you were 12 let alone beyond that to sort of know something's off here right something's not right but they're not saying why and I am not allowed to say why right this is happening right right it was sort of like um for those of you who are more liberal you know we you know can we at least let him uh sit in the classroom uh over to the side not not not in the back if you will even though we would love for you to sit in the back but you can sit over to the side and me being again my height played a a a lot into this you know and so the music department was my escape from the classroom it was my escape from from what was happening outside you know uh back in my community so that was my escape music let me let me ask you this how did your height how do you think your height impacted the way they saw you as a student in the classroom great question right and and that's what I mean it was almost like in many ways uh I wanted to be short unseen if you will and that was that was the main reason I thought that what that Jack wanted me to be -- Jack, Mr. Dahlinger -- wanted me to be the drum major I thought it was my height you know that I could see yeah

Sam 24:52

When you say the music department was your escape as well was and obviously we've heard about Jack Dahlinger being white but being a champion for various um and and more than being a champion it's on the savior narrative right being connected right that's what I hear you saying, like that he connected with you and with other students did -- was the music program more integrated? Was it . . . What was. . . What was the -- what was the vibe when you say it was an escape? Like was it also an escape from the cliques or was it sort of like your clique migrated over to there, too?

William Patterson 25:30

The clique migrated but it was it was very small.

Sam 25:34

Okay

William Patterson 25:35

Right? It was smaller and I . . . and I was not only in the -- I was not only the drum major I was in stage band and I was in symphonic band as well uh and I do remember that um there during uh uh there was a uh um I guess it was nutcracker they made a a Nutcracker Suite with they made an album and I played Will O'Wheat for me uh on the album right and so um the the music department was was just where I lived it it was my own little world if you will and you could get away from everything and um and and and it just it just kind of

Remember The Titans And What It Missed

William Patterson 26:25

um brought people together if you will uh it was a healing component um during a period of of re-traumatization uh uh daily re-traumatization if you will so you could get involved in music and what it represented and all the structure that was involved in there what you uh Tanya says this gonna be a healing session well music music was a healing session within itself you know you had to go back you had to practice the music you know break down each bar into you know how the notes fit into uh you know and learning your different notes 16th note whole notes quarter notes you know how to slur versus staccato and all that kind of stuff and so it you you got your education to me my education happened in there not in the other classes

LT 27:24

And and just to remind people of the chronology at this time period, there are three high schools still. It's not one TC Williams School and everyone's coming together. There was GW and there was Hammond at the time but Slinky, what I also hear you saying is that according to the movie, integration happened in sports and football, and I as I'm thinking Sam, I don't remember a classroom scene. Is it-- do they show the students going to class in the movie?

William Patterson 27:56

No they don't

LT 27:58

We don't -- We don't get that aspect at all.

Sam 28:01

No we get them in the hallways and the lockers and the social things, but we do not see them yeah in the dining room in class you are right oh that's good that's kind of deep, right?

LT 28:13

Yeah.

William Patterson 28:13

Right. So . . . so you would find a lot of your friends in the bathrooms or in the in the um uh outside you know because that that was during the hippie period, so uh people were leaving the classroom. They were just going to school but not they weren't sitting in the class.

Sam 28:36

Can I -- I just wanted to ask something else as we get into this which will connect to the next things we're gonna ask you but is -- I know that doing good for kids and doing right by kids is part of what you're still invested in in your life. Is music still in your life?

William Patterson 29:03

It is but uh I lost -- It is if music is in a different way. The writing is in a different way. The focus is in a different way and so I don't play. I have . . . I have . . . I have different instruments in my home but I'm but I I really don't sit down and practice and play anymore. My music is basically involving leadership and structure in the world. And I mentioned earlier about working with youth. I have my contracts now with the Department of Youth Rehabilitation Services so I have the most difficult kids in the District of Columbia to deal with. They're in a residential setting and so that's what I do now.

LT 30:09

Well, before Sam asks our close out question, we wanted to ask you a little bit more about music because you said this was a hippie era. You were involved in the band. What songs or music or artists take you back to that era, right? And one of the one of the reasons why we ask, too, is -- again, just using Remember The Titans but maybe just as a contrast-- what we know is that the music from the time period in the movie is off. Like, it's too early. It's like Tammy Terrell and Marvin Gaye and just you know some of the earlier Motown hits. What music reminds you of that time or what were you listening

The Soundtrack Of A Real Era

LT 30:50

to?

William Patterson 30:51

Well, you had your Motown stuff, but what resonated to me was Sly and The Family Stone, Curtis Mayfield, "We're a Winner," you know? And out of Motown to me the most impactful was Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On"? And then came Black Moses, Isaac Hayes, you know. Everything was moving, you know. It was moving really fast, you know but those are the most meaningful. I can hear Curtis Mayfield -- his whole album, right? "We people who are darkened in blue." I t was it was a drug era, if you will. you know? And Sly -- Sly was Sly. Jimi Hendrix. You know, Woodstock. Woodstock was meaningful because it was like a lot of people left everything. They left school. They left all the mainstream stuff. Nobody wanted to be involved with mainstream structure, you know. and they just threw all the rules away you know? And I kind of resonated to that. At 15, I became a I became a hippie.

LT 32:33

What-- what-- Okay, I need to know what did that mean for you? Did you change the way you dressed, the way you look? What was that --

William Patterson 32:38

Everything! And we we broke all rules.

LT 32:42

Did you have an afro?

William Patterson 32:45

I did. I did. Matter of fact, one day -- I'll send it to you -- I found one of my TC pictures.

LT 32:58

Oh, I need it.

William Patterson 32:59

-- with the basketball team. Look . . .

LT 33:01

Come on through.

William Patterson 33:03

This big part , I had this big part on me. I was like, boy, what's wrong with your hair? I'll send it to you

LT 33:12

Please do.

William Patterson 33:12

Yeah.

LT 33:14

We're gonna add these songs to our playlist, as well, too. We've been hearing some amazing artists and songs mentioned that I do think just add more complexity to that time period. Like you said, these amazing songwriters that were out and musicians. And it was just a really deep period that I don't think people are paying attention to.

William Patterson 33:37

Yeah, Jimi died at 26 and so, you know, he came through. And everybody went Jimi Hendrix for a while, you know? And he came through and was gone so fast. Him, Janice Joplin, and all that crew. Buddy Miles. I still have the music. I listen. I have albums that never been on the the turntable right now. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm an audiophile, so I go in for this this really different equipment, and I have albums, and I have turntables and so on and so forth. I have five different stereo systems

LT 34:25

Oh, my goodness.

Sam 34:27

I love this! You say-- I say, "Where is music in your life?" and then --

LT 34:31

"Hmm. . . nowhere."

Sam 34:31

And this one appears, like, "Nowhere, just, like, five different stereo systems." That's amazing! That's amazing!

William Patterson 34:41

I have two bands.

LT 34:46

That's awesome.

William Patterson 34:47

That's really old.

Sam 34:48

That's amazing and also feeling like that -- as you said, that era stays with you partially through the sound , right? And thinking about what hippie culture and music was doing right everyone in really different ways. I love this. So we like to close - - We used to close with like a song but now it's the sports season, and I gotta ask you -- we have to ask -- do you have any favorite sports movies

Leading Youth Through Structure Today

Sam 35:20

or TV shows or books or songs-- if there's a sports song -- to share with our audience that you want to -- We want to know what we should be like reading or listening to or watching

William Patterson 35:33

So you want to know if I have any favorite --

Sam 35:37

Like, do you have a favorite sports movie that you really love or a book, something sports related?

William Patterson 35:47

You know, I look at everything sort of through one telescope, and so the way I look at sports and stuff now -- I don't look at it the same way as everybody else. I look at who the sponsors are, who the advertisements are . When when I see Emirates all involved in the sports and stuff, I know who they are, and so I'm saying, hmm . . . What what is their role? Hmm . . . I wrote them; they did not respond. Because it was about structure, and I'm interested in the structure, of sports as opposed to the presentation of sports. I don't have time to look at who ran the ball down the field and crossed the goal line. That doesn't make sense to me. That has nothing to do with children and women and trauma. I know they have experienced it, and they're getting this this money but the tickets, the seats, the stadium, the advertisements. I took on the chocolate industry, for instance, right? Hershey, Mars and Nestle. And I know their involvement in child slave labor to right now. If you want to look at something, look at child slave labor. And three years ago, former child slaves came to Washington, D.C. and bought a case against Hershey, Mars, and Nestle in the Supreme Court. Look it up! And the Supreme Court ruled against the children. Okay, we're looking at this TV that's presenting sports but did you present

Sports Money And Hidden Child Labor

William Patterson 37:55

on these children? No! So when I look at sports, I don't applaud. I don't jump up. I don't do anything because I'm looking at the story that's not told. Does that answer?

Sam 38:08

Th at's an amazing answer to that and we're gonna link to the court case so folks can read the decision. There's just no question.

William Patterson 38:19

Wait-- and I have the letters on my phone that we wrote to Hershey, Mars, and Nestle. I have a committee that's the global transcendence, and I have Republicans, I have Jews, I have this, I have Blacks, I have Africans. We're all on the committee, so we wrote these letters to Hershey, Mars, and Nestle but here I am sitting -- and I remember on King Street I've eaten all of the chocolate in the world right, and so here I am with these letters on my phone which I can send to you. And then the headquarters . . . I didn't know the headquarters to Mars and Nestle was in Tyson's Corner. I didn't know that until about pre-COVID type stuff. But I didn't send the letters because I ran into the court case, and I was like, "William, nobody--" Dude asked me -- He said, "William." Okay, so then Tyson's Corner. He says, "Have you ever seen them on the news?" I said no. He said, "Have the Congress or or the Senate ever said anything about it?" " No." "Has law enforcement ever said anything about it?" "No." But here I am having this experience and you're having the same experience but this is why I see stuff differently. When you go in Safe ways and Giants and in the drugstores, here all their products right in front of your face. When I look at -- you asking me about the new, the sports. They got commercials on the sports. Little black kids, you know? Are you hungry? Get yourself a Kit Kat bar. Well, I don't see the sports. I see children and -- by the way, go to YouTube and put in child slaves and chocolate and look at the CNN report on child slaves that are happening right now starting at four years old. Cobalt industry is worse. That's right now. If you want to report on something. Now, look at women and children from that perspective. Your child has disappeared or a mother is so poor that she gave her child to slaves. That's what's happening now, and we are the recipients. We have the the fact that we can do a podcast. You need cobalt lithium. That's part of the ecosystem of global transcendence, and so I have relationships with Democratic Republic of the Congo, South Africa, Mandela families. This, that. You know, so I can't-- My experience from TC -- and I'm looking at the connection between right now -- that's why I don't play music. I write it in a different way. I play it in a different way. I'm the drum major in a different way and I don't want to be. I don't want to be that, but not being that means you learn to just walk over it, step over it, ignore it.

LT 42:15

We ll, I know this is illuminating for me. I had no idea and like Sam

Closing Thanks And Takeaways

LT 42:20

said, we'll be sure to provide links to the things you mentioned in the show notes so other people can follow and and have their awareness increased, as well. too.

William Patterson 42:31

The name of your show . . .

LT 42:35

Smart Girl?

William Patterson 42:36

Yeah, I love it. I love it.

LT 42:40

Thank you so much. Well, once again, we appreciate you being here today and going back in time. I know you said a few times this was not necessarily a joyous period for you, although when you start talking about music you lit up, so I just want to point that out to you, as well. So thank you so much. We appreciate you.

William Patterson 43:04

All right. You guys have a wonderful day.

LT 43:06

Thank you.

Sam 43:07

Thank you.

William Patterson 43:08

All right.