Raising An Elite Athlete feat Craig Young

We talk with fellow UCLA Bruin Craig Young about the unseen work behind raising an elite athlete and why protecting the parent-child bond matters more than chasing a highlight reel. We also get real about bias against Black quarterbacks, NIL-era pressure, and the surprisingly practical steps it takes to write and launch a book people actually buy.

Go here to order a copy of Growing Up Young by Craig Young.

Go here for the Smart Girl experience:

https://www.smartgirlbook.com/

Transcript

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Welcome And Guest Connection

Sam 0:02

Hello, welcome to Smart Girl the Podcast, where we talk about all things first -gen college, and it all was based off La'Tonya Rease Miles, Dr. La'Tonya Rease Miles's memoir. And the first season, we talked a lot about things directly related to the memoir and folks in it. This season, it's our sports season.

LT 0:34

Yesssss!

Sam 0:36

We're talking a lot about sports. It turns out, because we're English nerds, it's all about stories, about career journeys and paths, which is also incredibly cool, and I would say like serendipitous, but you know, we secretly designed it, so that's how it goes. And today we have an amazing guest, a fellow Bruin.

LT 1:01

Go Bruins!

Sam 1:01

A fellow Bruin, an author. I'm gonna say more. We're gonna say more. And we all have this connection to the to AAP. RIP AAP at UCLA. Craig Young! La'Tonya, tell us about our friend.

LT 1:25

Okay, so Sam, I think we just need to be explicit. One of the reasons why we started this podcast is just to hang out with cool people in our lives.

Sam 1:33

Correct.

LT 1:33

So along those lines, really excited, as you said, to welcome honorary smart girl, Craig Young, consultant, author, which we're gonna get into of his new book. Life partner of Julie Young and father of Bryce Young, as well, too. Craig, thank you so much for being here today. Craig also is my former, it's so weird to say now, a former student. But we were just we were just kicking it in class.

Craig 2:07

You were, I mean, super young, super young.

LT 2:09

Yeah, thank you, thank you. I was a child. I was a child faculty member at UCLA. And Craig and I share so many things in common - - both sports fans, both lovers of New Edition, also so transfer students, and also first gen to college. So again, thanks for being here, Craig.

Craig 2:29

Thank you for having me. And then I don't know if I've ever been called an honorary smart girl.

LT 2:34

You wear that crown with pride!

Craig 2:38

I wasn't blessed to be a girl dad, so . . . because I always wanted a daughter, so I will take this.

LT 2:47

You got it.

Craig 2:48

I can't wait to tell them because maybe being an honorary smart girl will help my wife listen to me more.

LT 2:55

Good luck with that.

Sam 2:57

You know, we just need merch. Obviously, what we need here is merch, and that will solve the problem. Is honorary smart girl needs to be worn like as a crown, literally, right? Shirts, we're gonna get it.

Craig 3:13

Okay, then I need to be the first one because I will rock that.

Sam 3:18

There you go. It's your TM, as my daughter likes to say, being a girl mom myself, girl parent. Trademark. That's trademark. That's what she says. That's trademark. You can't say that. So in case you wanted to know what it's like. My friend, you wear all the hats, all the crowns. You are a therapist.

Craig 3:42

Yeah.

Sam 3:43

A speaker. And when I say speaker, I mean you go to the biggest organizations, teams, etc., that you can imagine related to sports, especially, but also business, a consultant, an author of your new book, which I know we're gonna show and talk about. Just like LT, you do many things, and you have particularly focused on the experience of athletes and their families. Tell us more about how you came into your unique career. What was your path to this part of sports culture besides New Edition?

Craig 4:22

Wow. That's a great segue.

Sam 4:26

I mean, if you want to show us choreography. It's not a visual podcast.

Craig 4:32

No, no, no.

Sam 4:32

But we can. We can make an exception.

Craig 4:35

We have to save that for the next episode. We have to tease that.

Sam 4:38

That's right. That's right.

Craig 4:40

But yeah . . . So if you want me to show choreography, you would have to count me out.

LT 4:46

Ohhhh, heard it!

Craig 4:49

You got it? Yeah, but thank you for that.

From Therapist To Sports Consultant

Craig 4:52

So how I started with sports . . . It was kind of organic. Before I started with sports, I worked as a therapist and a clinician and did a lot of school-based counseling and worked in worked in schools, kids with who were involved in the probation system, the foster care system, and from and then from there I did a lot. I would end up coaching. So I coached a lot. And then when I had my own son, I wanted to coach him. And so just from coaching and more so just really wanting to give back. Bryce wasn't this Frankenstein creation where it's like, hey, you know what? We're gonna genetically engineer and I'm gonna marry someone and we're gonna create it, we're gonna create an athlete. This is gonna be our journey. It wasn't and and, you know, shout out to another Bruin, Lonzo Ball. But it wasn't one of those things where I was thinking about how how to create this athlete. It was more, fell in love with someone, we had kids, and we wanted to be the - - I wanted to be the best parent I could be, and I started with coaching him. And then as our athletic journey began, he showed a lot of talent, and then rather than . . . I felt like it was our job to nourish that talent, so we put him in the most competitive positions as possible, and then he just continued to excel. And so throughout through all that, through that journey, it got us to . . . He was number one ranked quarterback out of high school. He went to Alabama, won the Heisman, number ne o draft pick, and then in the NFL. And so during that process, everyone always asked me, What did you do? How did you do it? They wanted these nuggets, and it was kind of like . . . You guys seen the movie like R emember the Titans? or the Mighty Ducks or any of those movies, right? And so it's almost like they feel like there's some big speech, and you say this speech, or you drop these gems, and all of a sudden a kid or kids who couldn't perform all of a sudden are so motivated and they do these superhuman feats. It doesn't really work like that. It's like anything else, like it's sports and academia. The biggest, the brightest, the smartest, the strongest usually excel. But it's it's how do you cultivate that? And so for me, this book was about sharing my journey, sharing the things that I did well, and I didn't do well, but also level setting and managing expectations. So in the quest of getting your young athlete to be the best that they can be, not ruining their spirit, your spirit, or your relationship, which I almost did, some of the mistakes that I made. So that was . . . and

Why He Wrote The Book

Craig 7:40

also just chronicling our journey. So that was what motivated me to write the book.

LT 7:45

And the name of that book is Growing Up Young and after the colon is Our Family's Faith Journey to the NFL, so make sure you all get it. I just sat on my couch and just read it, and I love your tone. It was very . . . it's so conversational. It was just like listening to you talk, Craig, to be honest. Nevertheless, I do have another bone to pick with you, which is you didn't even tell me you were writing a book. I just got this message like, oh, come buy my book, right? What what made you decide to after coaching and speaking all that to actually put that - - chronicle that journey in a book format in particular? And we will probably have some more follow-up questions, but was there like a particular moment? Did you always want to write a book? Tell us about it.

Craig 8:32

Oh no, no, I never . . .

LT 8:33

You said, "No, no" really quickly.

Craig 8:35

Yeah, because especially, after you get your master's degree, and you do your thesis or you do your doctoral dissertation, like I ain't writing. Again, I never did a doctoral dissertation, but I did do a master's thesis.

LT 8:48

Right.

Craig 8:48

And I was like, after that, I don't ever want to do anything like that again. So I never thought about it, but then when Bryce was being recruited, and one of the agents in the agency that he works with was like, "You know what? You've been through this whole process, maybe you should write a book." And so many . . . And then my wife would say maybe I should write a book. People that I talked to who would I would give individual advice or consultation all said, "You know what? You should write this down and write a book." So finally I was like, you know what? Maybe I should. Maybe I should write a book. And then I just put out some feelers and was able to find some people that were really interested and and did it.

LT 9:32

Okay, we want to unpack. Sam loves to ask questions. She's gonna have a ton of questions about your process. We want to know more about how you did it because that's one of the reasons why people listen to this podcast, as well. I want to also address the content because I love what you were . . . how you were kind of debunking myths about raising an athlete. One of the things I really, really appreciate it is that you were you're pretty specific about Black male quarterbacks. That story is particularly in Southern California, which I hadn't really thought about before. Can you talk a little bit about the myths

Myths About Black Quarterbacks

LT 10:12

around the Black quarterback and and how your book addresses those things?

Craig 10:17

Absolutely. And first, before we do that, yes, me specifically and how it was addressed in the book, it was specifically about Black male quarterbacks. However, those myths and some of those things are generalizable or can be more general and are myths about Black men, Black people in general. And because of the myths we're - -hey -- - maybe not able to process a large amount of information as quickly. Because this is an athletic . . . This isn't an intellectual position, it's a cerebral position. It's a position that is the CEO of a corporation, of an organization. Sometimes . . . And if you look at CEOs, they're, you know, they don't tend to look like us. And then also there is a a level of affluence that it takes to a quarterback to private coaches, being able to go all the camps, being able to do all those things. So those were some of the things that we were up against, and also Bryce not being ideal height, ideal size, ideal weight. So those were some of the things. And usually for an African-American athlete, specifically quarterback, if you show some athletic prowess, they want you to switch positions.

LT 11:40

That's right. So I'm so glad that you called it out in the book.

Craig 11:44

And so me growing up, especially in my generation, that was really happening, that was really prevalent and happening a lot. It's it's better now, but that was prevalent and it's happening a lot. So in the back of my mind, I always knew that could potentially be an issue. So I wanted to make sure to control for that, that Bryce had the best coaching he could, that he was fundamentally sound, that we did a lot of breathing exercises. We identified leadership - - that he was understood that his decisions off the field could impact how he is viewed and on the field. And that the quarterback in that position is a position of trust and a position of leadership, and that those things aren't just something that you do for two hours on Saturday or Sunday. Those are something that has to, those are something that has to be done and exhibited and being part of your life, and also the concept of having be being able to delay gratification and also to sacrifice something for the short term for for benefits in the long term. So those are things at a young age that we talked about and instilled, and more African-American peoples and brown people than not do this and live that life and understand that, but we don't really get the . . . Sometimes that's not acknowledged. And so for us, I really wanted to address the elephant in the room. And for Bryce, I didn't want him to be surprised at somehow how he could be perceived. And we address that in the book head on.

LT 13:21

Yeah, you do, and again, I'm sure Sam wants to know about your process. But one more thing I'll just add because I really, really enjoyed like this . . . There's something like - - You were just cooking, as a kid say, by that second half, too. But when you started talking about other families and other Black quarterbacks and almost like this community that you all formed, I just thought that was lovely. And I don't think people know about that part. It's usually like competition among players, and you're not thinking about how these people know one another, and the parents and families know one another. I really valued that.

Craig 14:01

Absolutely. The funnel, you know? And end up seeing people. Same camps, right? You travel around the same circles. The same people who want to represent you or trying to represent them. Like it's a lot of commonalities in the circles of elite athletes, and you all go through the same kind of struggles and the same things, and it's also can be very, very lonely because sometimes a lot of the parents don't understand the negative aspects and the pressure of having athletics, your young athlete having athletic success and having all these options and having all these choices, which again is a blessing, but also with that blessing comes some things that can be difficult and probably problematic and can be burdensome. And with the way sports is now with NIL and the ability to make life-changing generational money very early. I'm talking about now 15, 16, 17, 18, which that part isn't bad because it's too many times Black and brown people have not had their fair share of access to systemic wealth and corporate wealth. That part's okay, but the problem is because that money can come so quickly, that puts added pressure on the young athlete and the parents, and also it allows this cottage industry of street agents or agents without . . . opportunistic agents to be able to infiltrate families with promises and all these things to entice them to sign predatory contracts and all these things that just become a lot. The amount of money that is available and that is at stake causes a lot of people to do some sometimes very unscrupulous things. So, another part of me writing the book was to be a resource and to be an outlet and say, "Hey, look, I've gone through some of these things, and here's kind of some of the way that I attacked them."

NIL Pressure And Predatory Gatekeepers

Sam 16:10

That's huge, and again, identifying that there's this large group of people, the parents of athletes, who aren't being communicated to or trained, right? That are expected to already know the hidden curriculum of having this amazing athletic child, and they're being preyed upon because they don't know, right? They don't know what to do. So you're also, I just want to say, exposing that as well as giving guides. So how do you do this and keep your relationship? And I really admire you talking about mistakes too. We here at Smart Girl love a story of vulnerability and thinking about how significant that is. And speaking of that, because I'm sure writing the book was filled with

A Practical Book Writing Workflow

Sam 17:07

ups and downs, tell us about your process for writing. We heard about your motivation, we could hear about why. I can only imagine how many people, after hearing you speak about this or being in your sessions, if it's you know, private therapy, are like you gotta write this down, you gotta tell people. But then how did you sit down and write it after basically swearing this off post-masters? What did you do?

Craig 17:35

So shout out to UCLA and all my English classes at UCLA. So I really went back, yep, I really went back to the basics. I did an outline. What do I really want to talk about in this because it could be so wide if you go all over the place. So really what did I want to talk about and what did I want to address? So I got it to about 20 to 22 topics in that outline that I wanted to do, and then individually addressed each one. Those outlines became the chapters, so the topics. Then wrote kind of like a paragraph or a treatment for each of those topics, and then from there went into a tape recorder and then and then spoke them. That's why when you said it's conversational, it was put there and and spoke it. Then wrote what I had out and then wrote it down, edited over and over and over and over and over and over again, and then that's how it came back. But it started with the outline of the ideas, breaking down each idea, attacking each idea individually. So each outline and each paragraph individually going through there and going down. And the process went quicker than I thought once it was good there, but then the editing down process was the one that took longer.

LT 19:13

I just want to say this is solid gold information, Sam, but go ahead.

Sam 19:18

Oh, I was gonna say, so you need to be a dissertation coach and a book writing coach, obviously. First of all, number one. Number two, part of why I think the number one is because you just made something that's so hard and large and huge. You acknowledged it was, and then you were like, let me break it down. And then number three, you talking about using a tape recorder as your first entree. I think LT and I know from years of teaching, too, like absolute gold in trying to keep your writerly voice, right? And also in just like a get-it done model of being like, how can I approach this thing that's kind of big and scary? It's like, what if I just talk through it, which won't be everyone's jam, but really makes it like you can compose on something else. Like I often say, if you can't stand hearing your voice, do it on a notes app, because at least it'll feel different than sitting down on a Word doc and being like, Oh my god, what should I say? Yeah.

Craig 20:25

Yes, yes, because for me, especially typing, where I type a sentence, then I look at it, change the sentence, type it over again, because I am a perfectionist and I feel like how I could have said that word better? But when I was able to just say it and and get it out, and then see it on the words, and then do my thing, that worked a lot easier. That worked a lot better for me.

Sam 20:50

It's amazing, and again, concrete, approachable but also acknowledges the mountain, right? Which is how do you take this big thing? I know that fellow reluctant author LT, who was never gonna write her memoir and then wrote her memoir. I'm curious whether this process feels similar to you, or whether you felt like some chapters came in a rush and others took a while?

LT 21:24

Good question, Sam. What resonated with me when Craig was talking was that outline. And I think people might miss that point. That people feel like you're sitting down and God is telling everything in your head.

Sam 21:41

That's a different faith book.

LT 21:45

Yeah, that's a different moment. But for me, there were some things I had already - - there's some stories I had told, or maybe even written but in other ways. Maybe it was like a Facebook post or something like that, or a blog post. And I ended up expanding it. So some of it. But like you, Craig, you really have to ask yourself, what is this book about? It can't be everything, right? What I really like about the book is that it's so focused, right? But not focused to the point of like narrow, it's focused to the point where you know what you're gonna talk about, and then the stories kind of expand from there. And so I really appreciate those moments where you talk about you and Bryce in the car and you driving from one part of the city. It's just so real and resonant. But it starts from knowing what is this about? So for me, again, I like to tell people my memoir isn't every interesting or bad thing that happened to me. There's so many other stories, right? But I wanted to tell this arc of how I got to college, and so that was my focus. Craig, tell people how did you get a publisher,

Finding A Publisher And Selling Strategy

LT 23:03

though? What was that process like? Did you have the publisher first and then write the book? And you wrote the book and then presented it to someone. What was that process like?

Craig 23:13

So the process for me was a publisher came, a local publisher from the Alabama area came to me and wanted me to - - he's like an Alabama alumni. "Hey, want you to write this book." Do all that stuff. We'll help you, all that. Great. And then it didn't work out with that publisher. So then I was in a thing where I had to find another publisher. And I was blessed that I had put some of . . . I was doing some social media, and I was doing some kind of reactions to posts, and I was doing some of my speaking engagements and putting my content on social media. But so then actually a publisher reached out to me and said, "Hey, you know, I love what you're doing, love your content. What do you have going on?" I said, Hey, by the way, it so happens. . . Yeah, it so happens that I have a book that's pretty much done, having some issues with my publishing company. Can we have a talk? And so we talked, we worked it out, so we have a new . . . so we were able to get it done. However, that couldn't be everyone's story because I have some access and some resources that maybe some other people don't have, but the ability to publish a book now is so much easier. Write the book, and there are so many publishing companies that are willing to do it. You don't have to do it the way that it was before. Write the book and it a thousand percent could get out there. If I would have known then what I've known now, I wouldn't have dealt with that other publishing entity, and I would have written the book on my own, promoted it on my own, and then from there, solicited it and sent it to some publishing companies and got it done. The way I was doing it before made it seem really harder than it was, and then to bring it home, it was simple.

LT 25:22

We're gonna have to just make sure so many people who are just potentially even thinking about maybe writing a book to hear this part. Absolutely it's easier. Smart Girl, I self-published, and then I have a similar story with my new book that's coming out that's about Black first gens, which everyone was like, Oh, you gotta solicit a publisher. That publisher hit me up. So I withdrew my plan. I was like, Oh, okay. They believed in the project. You need to have someone who believes in your project. One more thing, Sam.

Craig 25:57

So shout out to Game Breaker Publishing.

LT 26:01

Shout out to Game Breaker. I was gonna talk about this. So, Sam, I had the opportunity to participate in Craig's recent online virtual book launch and celebration. Craig, it was fascinating, it was eye-opening to me. This process of the the publisher like gathering everyone. We were there to celebrate, but there was a goal in mind, which was to be a bestseller and how to get on the best sellers list for Amazon. People don't know the process. Can you talk a little bit about that? Like, did you know what it was? Did they talk to you about this ahead of time? Okay, talk about it.

Craig 26:40

Yeah, that's the great part of having these publishing agencies right now that are very strategic, and it's about really getting your impressions. It's about getting your community to support and network. It's about them getting to log on and to purchase at the right time in the right windows. And we live in an algorithm world, and it's about knowing how to make that algorithm work, and then once Amazon and those algorithms notice a spike, then things happen. And so they were very, very strategic in doing that, and also being able to get enough impressions to get me on the bestsellers list because then that opens up of different opportunities, different speaking engagements, and all those things. So it is a very, very fascinating kind of process, but it's one that the right publishing company can help you navigate. And everything was very, very targeted and strategic.

LT 27:43

I learned so much from it, and Sam, just real quick, I wanted to ask this question. What did that allow you to do? You said it opens up this other these other opportunities for you. Can you tell people what that was? Because it was so specific, and it wasn't just like bestseller of everything. It was like a specific category. You were in your lane and you know it paid off. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Craig 28:11

Absolutely, because like anything else, you want to scale your book, so you want to be able to scale it up, scale it down and so when you're on the bestsellers list, or you're able to get that book into the brick and mortars if you want to, you're able to do more speaking engagements, you're able to do local signings. Like I just did a signing at a local coffee house, fit 50-60 people. But what you're doing is you're getting all these all these impressions, and it's really slowly kind of just building up your brand. And I think strategically. You have to decide, what are you writing this book for? So if you're writing this book to become an instant millionaire right away, then you might want to do something else.

LT 29:01

Try something else.

Craig 29:03

Because that's not how this works. However, if you're writing this book to put out something authentic about yourself, to give back and to build it, and to build it within your community, and then to be able to do the work. And that's why it's so important to believe in it, by the way. Don't write in something you don't believe. To build it and believe it and to push it and to market it. Then it will grow, it will grow, it will grow, and will have legs and will have a life of its own. And that's what this publishing company, and that's with being on the bestsellers list, that's with having strategic book launches, that's how we're going to strategically release the hardcover, the paperback, the um . . . What's the one?

Sam 29:55

The audio?

Craig 29:57

Thank you. The audiobook.

LT 29:58

Are you gonna do an audio?

Craig 29:59

Yes, yes.

LT 30:00

Oh, you have to!

Craig 30:01

All of those are separate releases, different release points, different impressions. So it's just being able to be patient with it, and to work it and to believe in it and just keep adding and adding and adding and adding those layers.

LT 30:15

That is incredible, and it's gonna it lends itself so well to you reading it. So I'm excited for that.

Sam 30:21

No, I love that. And you're - = I mean, obviously, you speak for a living, as well, and you already have practice with that. But on another one, I want to be like, tell us your media secrets, post-book tour, full book tour. Well, I wanna pick your brain for all of us about how to talk about your book and what you just said was so beautiful, which is like you want to make it authentic to give it a life because you're gonna keep talking about it what you want it to be as an occasion. I mean, you said to build your brand, and I love how realistic you are about that, right? But also a brand that you can believe so that you want to keep talking about it. Because if not, what are you stuck with, right? Yeah, you've got an empty shell, right? So I have to ask this question, and I have to tell you that part of the podcast this season is occasioned by the fact that LT actually went to TC Williams and talks about Remember the Titans in the book. And what has come out of that is us having lots of interviews with folks around that season and around TC Williams in 71, but not on the football team, so especially cheerleaders, and now we have a whole project on that, which is amazing. So you brought up the myths of sports movies. But the way that you really talked about the book and your experience of raising an athlete in the book as something that's an everyday reality for a whole lot of people but rarely the focus of sports culture

Fame, Media Hot Takes, And Fandom

Sam 32:10

or fandom. I have to know, we have to know, as the parent of an elite athlete, are you still a sports fan? And does your expertise and the psychology around sports parenting change being a fan or watching sports for you?

Craig 32:29

Wow, that was a great question!

LT 32:30

That was such a good question! Dammit!

Sam 32:34

No, we wanna know!

LT 32:35

We do want to know.

Craig 32:38

I feel like I'm in the classroom again. I feel like that was the midterm question.

Sam 32:48

I give a prompt, right? You gotta have a good prompt if you want a good answer. But I'm just like, are you still a fan beyond Bryce? I hope you're a fan of your own child.

Craig 33:01

Yes, I'm gonna answer this super transparently. I am less of a pro-football fan now because you know sometimes when you know how the sausage is made and we know where the bodies are buried, it does take a it does take a little bit of . . . I still love college football and I love the NBA, but after Bryce plays, it's difficult for me to watch games. And I don't do Fantasy Football. I don't follow any teams anymore. It's really just so personal. And then I don't watch it in the same way because I watch it in relation to how this affects the Panthers, how this affects . . . or or maybe I'm scouting or looking at it. . . So I'm not as much of a fan, and also the way sports media is right now has really detracted from my love of sports the hot take and the gotcha and the shaming of the athletes and the and these media personalities almost feeling like they are the show and bigger than the sport. That's really has turned me off. So I am not as big of a professional football fan as I was, but I'm the biggest Carolina Panthers fan and Bryce Young fan, besides Julie Young, in the in the world. So that's kind of where it goes. And then after the Panthers play, I don't really watch professional football. And what was the second part of the question? Because I want to answer the other one.

Sam 34:38

You already answered. How does your expertise at psychology around sports parenting change being a fan and watching sports for you?

Parenting Humility And Repairing Trust

Sam 34:45

Because we're - - Yeah, go on.

Craig 34:47

Intellectually, I know all of the things I should be doing to handle this, especially when he plays. You know, I should stop catastrophizing, I should be doing my deep breathing, I should contextualize all these things. I shouldn't make all these loose connections. This doesn't mean . . . Just because this happens, it doesn't mean that's gonna happen. And I should be in the moment and I should ground myself, and I should do all these things I would tell my clients to do. And I don't do it. It is a work in progress. It's too personal. I'm up and down. I'm still trying to think about all those things. So my goal for myself this year is to be more in the moment, to really enjoy all of these things and to lean into my faith and then to lean into my training. And when I go into the book, one of the things that I was very ashamed of and and disappointed in myself with my parenting is I knew all the things that you need to do to be a parent. I knew how I should have been treating my son. I knew some how I should have been dealing with his anxiety or his frustrations. And I was instead, because I wasn't dealing with my stuff, all the things of that came about in my childhood, the things that I was still carrying, the things that I was still injured about, and I was not using them. And then it took my wife telling me that my son doesn't really want to be around me anymore. Like he doesn't want me to coach him, he doesn't want to be around me anymore. And so hearing that made me change. It was like, yo, you know how to do this, and right now you're being a hypocrite. So that's kind of when I changed, and I'm trying to really do the same this season and be more present and enjoy the season more no matter what happens.

Sam 36:47

Awesome.

LT 36:48

Thanks for your honesty so much. It's just incredibly helpful. Sorry, Sam.

Sam 36:54

No, I was gonna say there's nothing more humbling than parenting, period, let alone having it on this this scale and this stage, and then being a trained psychologist on top of that, and being like, no, but really, like I know this, right? I know it from the science, I know it from that must be so intense. But again, I just wanted to praise your honesty and also just again, shout out to you being an honorary smart girl, right? Like we're cultural critics as a living, which is like we all have these perspectives, and it changes things when you said when you watch how the sausage gets made, right? When you notice the patterns, it changes how you watch things, right? And that's real. And I love that you can talk about that ,as well. It was beautiful. But LT, you close us out.

Creed, Legacy, And First-Gen Weight

LT 37:52

I will close us out, and I'll just add though, Craig. We recently had an opportunity to speak with Noa Dalzell, and she's a beat writer for the Boston Celtics, and she expressed the same kind of frustration you did with the media and takes and wanting to just excoriate the coach and not really understanding the humanity of the athletes.

Craig 38:15

Oh that's such a great word.

LT 38:18

Yeah, she's a great writer. So other than Growing Up Young, we would like to know your favorite sports book, TV show, movie, something that you may find particularly inspiring, maybe it's even a podcast. Let us know, Craig. Let the people know.

Craig 38:40

My favorite sports book besides . . .

Sam 38:46

I was gonna say! But hold it up!

Craig 38:49

I don't know if I have a favorite sports . . . Probably my favorite sports movie is recent, is the Creed series. That's my answer.

LT 38:59

That is my answer. Tell us why.

Sam 39:02

Philly girl! I love that.

LT 39:06

I forgot about that. Tell us why.

Craig 39:07

I was born in Harrisburg, and I've lived with all my family in Philly.

Sam 39:10

There you go. My father is a dead ringer for Sly Stallone in the first one, in the first Creed, so older Sly Stallone in Creed. Yeah, sorry. I mean, in the way that you know, 70-something year old Italian men are, right?

LT 39:34

So tell us why, Craig.

Sam 39:36

Tell us, sorry.

Craig 39:37

Well, it is so nuanced and it has so many layers to it. Because you have this young man who kind of comes from affluence, and is in this arena that's boxing he has to . . . And it's kind of like some of the things that Bryce had to go through because how do you find your edge and how do you find that when you maybe you don't need this sport to eat? But for that person, he needed that to breathe, to live because that's what's in his heart and his soul. Then you have this father-son dynamic where you have this kind of unrequited relationship with your father, and you have all these things that were left unsaid that could have been said, and you don't have this relationship, and then Rocky knew his father more than Adonis knew him. So then you have this father-son relationship. Then he has to discover more about himself, why he loses the fight, and then they're just so well shot. So I can go on and on and on. But for me, those are a lot of the things that I can relate to, as well, kind of trying how to figure out things by myself, navigating a complex relationship with my father, and then from there , overcoming obstacles. I don't think I'm as handsome as Michael B. Jordan, but you know, I was pretty good in my day.

Sam 41:12

Should you show the picture again, too? I mean, I think we're gonna need to post that picture on our Instagram?

Craig 41:24

I was off because but it wasn't - - No, that wasn't me.

LT 41:30

This just means we're gonna have to do a trilogy and have a conversation specifically about Creed because 1) I agree with everything you say with the added layer of it's both about - - this is what we talked about before, it's about legacy, but he's a first -gen of a kind because his dad was an athlete, but when he starts off, Adonis is like a first -gen professional, right? You know, and he's got his little button up and stuff, but there's this part of him, like you said, it's kind of visceral, where he has to get this other part out, and then when we get to the third movie, and then you got that friend from the hood who says you got the life that I should have had.

Craig 42:12

And that you owe me something. Because that's . . completely. I f we want to do another podcast about all the people and families that think that we owe them something for our journey, but anyway, that's a whole . . .

LT 42:25

Okay, all right!

Sam 42:28

I feel like that's part two, that's the next book, right? How do not just parents but also the athletes manage that weight? I keep bringing up AI here, Allen Iverson, right? But so much critique around his relationship with friendships, and this happens all over sports media now. I'm just of a generation from Philadelphia, right? But then also feeling like what is owed, right? And all this conversation about influence, from a top-down perspective, but then also thinking about what's owed, right? When you get there. This is deep.

LT 43:05

And, oh, you writing books now? And you writing books, too?

Sam 43:09

Yeah.

Craig 43:10

And that's a lot. And I know we're wrapping up, but I do want to bring it back to first -gen. That's a lot for first gen. And then if you are the first gen who's "made it," there's such an expectation of who you . . . "You made it for us, and you're pulling us with you." And then there's a lot of guilt and expectations with that. And there's a lot of things that Julie and I - - Julie's not a first -gen -- from how our lives changed and some of the expectations, a lot of things for us to that we had to navigate and are still navigating.

Links, Gratitude, And Goodbye

LT 43:52

Part three, you guys. Look out for it. We will we will put a link to that earlier conversation that Craig and I had a few years ago, obviously a link to where you can find Growing Up Young, as well, too, and if there's anything else you want us to link to Craig, your website, we'd be happy to do that.

Craig 44:10

Absolutely, I'll send that to you.

LT 44:12

Yeah, know that you have an open invitation. We appreciate you.

Craig 44:15

LT, it's always good to see you, and you were a mentor and inspiration. You still are one of the smartest people I know. And thank you so much. I wouldn't have gotten through UCLA and all that stuff without without you and that support system. So thank you, thank you, thank you.