Perimenopause stole my personality with Clare Amos

I didn’t want to look back and think, why did I keep doing all that… when I could’ve been walking along the coast with a coffee.”

At 43, Clare’s life didn’t crack, it crumbled. What started as random health issues soon turned into panic attacks, personality changes, and years of feeling like a stranger to herself. She jokes that she could write a book based on her health notes alone… and honestly, she could.

In this raw, funny, and deeply honest episode, Clare opens up about the seven-year stretch where she lost her sense of self, her joy, and her confidence,  only to slowly find a new way forward using pen, paper, and permission (from/to herself)

We talk about:

• Working yourself into the ground and calling it normal
• What no one tells you about perimenopause (especially if you don’t know you’re in it)
• Rage, withdrawal, and wondering where the old you went
• Mr. Worry, Who Moved My Cheese, and other bedtime-book wisdom
• Why sometimes the bravest move is writing it all down and starting again

This is a conversation for anyone feeling blindsided by midlife, still deep in the thick of it, or wondering if they’re the only one who feels this undone.

Spoiler: you’re not.

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Unravelling: The Diary of a Midlife Mess.

If something resonated with you today, I’d love to hear your thoughts, come join the conversation on Facebook and Instagram @themessymiddlelife or visit sharonwilkesburt.com
for more resources and support.

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A self-paced course to help you get clear, feel more like you again, and find solid ground in the messy bits of midlife.

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Let’s Begin | You’re not too late, too much, or too lost. This is just the middle ... and there’s gold in here.

Transcript

 Well, we're back. Welcome to Unraveling the Diary of a Midlife Mess. This podcast is for anyone who's ever looked around their perfectly nice life and thought, yeah, cool. But, uh, who even am I anymore? I am your host, Sharon Wilkes, bur she of the messy, middle life professional life coach, hairstylist educator, serial under thinker, and woman in midlife who has quite literally unraveled in public.

You are welcome. This season we are diving deeper into the messy magical, sometimes watch the fog moments that come with midlife transitions. We're talking identity, reinvention, grief, rage, reinvention again, and that weird in-between space where you're not who you were, but you're not quite sure who you are yet either.

I've got some incredible guests line up women who are wise, hilarious, raw and refreshingly honest about the detours, the breakdowns, and the breakthroughs. We'll dip into the decades, explore the threads that have followed them through their life and ask big questions like, if I'm not that anymore, then who the hell am I?

And of course we'll be talking about coping strategies, brutal life lessons, and how perhaps the Mr. Men were our very first dip into self-help breeding. Midlife isn't just about falling apart, it's about choosing what's worth stitching back together. So whether you are knee deep in your own unraveling or just quietly questioning the script that you've been following, pull up a chair.

Let's unravel together.

Today's guest is someone who knows all too well, what it means to be in the thick of the messy middle. Claire only heard the word perimenopause after she was already on the other side of it, and by then she'd spent seven long years searching for answers to what she describes as a living hell. Like so many of us.

She was blindsided by the changes, the confusion, and the complete lack of support. But instead of pushing through, she gave herself permission to slow down and start carving out a path that actually worked for her. Claire is also the founder of Pen and Paper Girl, a bespoke business support service designed to help female entrepreneurs stay on track with their priorities.

She brings 30 years of experience across corporate banking and hospitality. And let me tell you, she's vibrant, reliable, and ridiculously organized. She's the brains behind PA in a day where she shares all her tools and tips for getting and staying organized. And if that wasn't enough, she's also the creator and host of Coffee at the Coast and networking and coworking space.

Women in Perth, Northern Suburbs, all about inspiring each other to take imperfect action, get out of your comfort zone and chase those at big. Juicy Dreams. Claire is basically a woman on a mission to create more time, more clarity, and more connection. And I am so glad that she's joining me today. So I'm gonna start this.

So obviously, um, we're gonna talk about where you are today and who you are today, but I wanna sort of go back a little bit to, to, who was Claire? Who was the Claire that kind of we're gonna a bit of a time machine thing. So if we opened up. Because of course this is called unraveling the diary of a midlife mess.

But if we were open to open up Claire's teenage diary, what would it say? What would be seeing in there? You'd be seeing lots of events, fun things. Um, I never sat still. I was always going somewhere doing something or I was the party planner, shall we say. Themes that I'm the common denominator in that because, um, I still am.

Um, just let me take my scarf off. I'm hot. Yeah. Um, yeah, we'd see, oh gosh, teenage Claire. I was always on the go. Everything was very fast and everything was, now I need it now. Um, and. Gosh, this is hard, Sharon. Well, it's just the kind of, it's just kind of getting to know you through the decades. We're gonna go through the decades.

So a teenage Claire is always on the go. She's kind of got a diary full of things, and that's what you're gonna see in her diary is events and she's the planner. That's it. And I worked a lot of disruptive hours when I was younger as well. Um, so I didn't really sleep much. Um, and I didn't think sleep was important, although my mum used to say to me, it's the hours before midnight that count.

Oh, who knew she was absolutely right. Meaning get to sleep before 12. Who does that? That's such a weird thing. It's funny because in the uk, so Claire wouldn't go to bed till way after midnight. Yeah. Um, and now I'm tucked up by half nine. Yeah, that's sensible. Claire. Yeah. Midlife Claire. Sensible. Claire.

She's some midlife. Claire. Yeah. She sometimes makes it appearance. So if we go to your twenties, what. Song or smell or outfit instantly takes you back to a night in your twenties. Oh my goodness. I went to a nightclub in a suit that you would probably wear, um, to go to work in like a corporate outfit because I needed to Oh, that's the nineties because that's nineties.

That was nineties. Yeah. Cool. Night out. Yeah. I needed to look older than I was to get in this nightclub. He absolutely hadactually 21. Um. I can't even remember how much old there was. But anyway, I, I would be wearing a suit as though I'm going to work, um, in a corporate world, um, with very high heels, but I would always wear heels.

I was so good in heels. I worked in hotels and, um, walked up and down a reception desk for miles every day, Uhhuh. Um, and I, hmm. So, yeah, corporate. I would wear corporate, also corporate. Corporate Claire, also corporate Claire, out the twin. I didn't have very many. Um, I wasn't a trendy kid, so I, um, any, anything that came into fashion, let's say Doc Mars.

So I once wore Doc Martins with a little, um. White skirt. I mean, I was a lot slimmer then, but I don't care for that anymore. No, for sure. Um, I like pie too much. Yeah. So I'd sometimes go out thinking, oh my God, I can't, I can't possibly wear this. And again, I can hear my mum saying, um, if you don't get your legs out now while they're looking, fabulous, do you think you're gonna get them out when you're older?

Um, I do actually get my legs out now because I think they're fabulous. Because your mom told you to and again Exactly. Said she's absolutely right. I think I've had some sessions with you where I've talked about me and my mom. Actually your mom's a wise woman. She should be on this podcast. Oh, there's a thought.

There's a thought. Yeah. So there's an outfit also. Um, yeah, I was quite, I was quite boring. A boring dresser. I was like, my friend used to have all the new sports gear and anything that was in fashion and I was like, um, her poor friend. Poor friend in the corporate suits and the heels. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, you know, not that poor.

Um, so if we go into your thirties, so what, what was driving you in your thirties? Was it, um, was it ambition or was it survival or reinvention, or was it something else in your, so what was driving you in your thirties? In my thirties, I, what was driving me? Um, well, I'd always, since my late twenties, I'd always.

Told myself I was gonna move to a different country to live as in Australia 'cause I'd visited here Uhhuh. Um, so it was always at the back of my mind that that's what I had to do. So that was probably driving me, uh, but it was a case of how do I make that happen? What plans do I need to put in place? Who do I need to be?

And most of all, which is a big thing in my life, is connection and connecting people who do I know. Who can point me in the right direction as a springboard to make this happen. But also what, um, during this time I bought a house, um, with an ex-partner. It wasn't an ex-partner about the time, obviously. No, that would've been weird.

Um, so settling down was also driving me. So I, I had that mixed emotions because it was, I know I wanna move to Australia. It was never on his agenda, so it's like, what do I want most? Oh, interesting. Here I am. What does that tell you? Well, um, yeah, interesting. I mean, I was, I was in thirties. I like my lost decade.

I can remember so little about my thirties because I think, I mean, like, you know, I had my youngest, I had Lily when I was 30. So for 10 years, for that whole entire decade, I'm trying to keep small humans from killing themselves basically, because they're just on a mission to, you know, harm themselves in various interesting ways.

So that's, so for me, my thirties is like a lost decade. I kind of have very little memory of it. Well, my, my twenties are like that because I worked in hotels. The place was open 24 7. It had. Um, so many bars, two nightclubs, a wine bar. Um, so I didn't really sleep much, so Wow. My twenties decade. If you say to me what happened in the nineties, I'm like, I'm not really sure.

Yeah. 'cause it was a big party decade as well. Yes. Um, and Manchester was a big music scene. Sure. There was lots of clubs, there was lots of. Stuff going on who were part I, part I was cool in the corporate. I just, that was just one night out. She,

um, but I, I didn't know I was cool. It's only when I looked back on Yeah. At that age that it's like, God, you know, I feel, yeah. Now I feel like I'm getting into a bit of a flow now, Sharon. So, um, what happened was. I was, I hit my, um, career peak early on. So I ended up being the manager of a, a big department in a hotel, um, in Manchester Uhhuh.

And that wa that was my life of my career, and that really burnt me. Um, because there were long days, the place never closed. So it, you know, you couldn't just wait till the next day to do stuff that people were in front of you. Um. So I said to myself after that, I am never gonna people manage again. I am never gonna work shifts again.

I am never gonna work an extra five minutes unless I'm paid again. Mm-hmm. Um, I mean, sometimes that goes out the window as well, but um, yeah, I feel like there's a lot coming up during this conversation. Oh, and going onto the decades, we're only onto the warmer. Oh my goodness. Someone makes some notes. So as you then moved into your forties, what did midlife mean to you in your forties?

It was all about born. Um, I've always sort of treated life seriously and, uh, moving from different to a different country. I don't know. This country is more laid back in its approach to things. Um. I feel like if you wanna do something, you can make it happen. Um, no one's coming to rescue you. Um, you've gotta make your own destiny.

And so my forties, um, at the start it was, oh my God. 'cause I had more of a meltdown when I was in my thirties. 'cause that was like. Oh my God. But I, I'm no longer young, um, even though now I know it's young. You were a mere child. Yeah. Yeah. So in my forties, it's like I was waiting for something to happen, something spectacular to happen because it was, um, you, you know, life begins at 40, so they say, and I felt like I was in a really good place.

I had a really good circle of friends. Um, and then. 43 happened. Oh. And that was when everything started. We'll come to that going downhill, that 43. Yeah. Yeah. So my forties were, yeah. Loving life, living in Australia, made the big move. I'd built a house. Um, I'd done lots of things that were on my, I. Oh my God, my wildest dream list.

Yeah. That's incredible. That's amazing. So when, I mean like, I mean, I know that if I, when I was in my forties, if I was looking for or towards midlife, midlife for me seemed like it was like a thousand years away because obviously I still, in my forties, I'm still 30 something, you know, I'm 30 15 or 30 12 or whatever it is.

I'm not, you know, I'm not, midlife is some far off age. Yeah. So, so then landing into my fifties was quite. Shock because I kind of thought, oh my God, I'm actually in like midlife age now, which that just, that took me a while. I'm still not okay with it, but it's fine. We're here. We're here. So for you, if you look back at yourself in each decade, what is a thread that runs through it all?

Like is there a belief or a desire or. Strength or a struggle, whatever it is. What is it that keeps showing up? What's something that's kind of gone through each of those decades? Positivity. Oh. And organization, because obviously you're planner. Oh, that diary was full of events goes without saying Sharon.

Yeah. Positivity. Um, always. I don't know. I can't sit still, really. I mean, I do have. Times where I do rest. Because as you get older, you realize you need to slow down a bit because you're not 23 anymore, even though in your head you are. Yes. Just for instance. Um, also another, uh, common denominator of me is, um, part of me moving to this country was to kind of slow down the social side of things, but that's been a common thread.

I am a social butterfly. I am an offline social butterfly. You are, you are. That is a common thread. Um, and yeah, organizing whatever for, um, events or like if we're going out somewhere, but I don't, I outsource booking my holidays though. My friend does that 'cause she likes it. That's very good. That's very good.

Very grown up. Yeah. Yeah. So is there any, are there any threads that have been like a quieter thing through the background? Like that's, I mean, I mean, I'm saying that because I know that like, oh yeah, writing has always been a thread. It's been something that I've done since I was a child. So it's one of those things that's just like, that's kind of woven through all of my decades.

And is there anything that's kind of like that for you? 'cause obviously, you know, the, the, the organization and the pro and the positivity, they're very Yeah, they are. That's almost like your trademark as it were. Mm-hmm. Is there anything else that's kind of followed you or something that you've kind of considered returning to or got curious about?

Nothing that's coming to my head now, but in 10 minutes time when we're talking about something else, I'll have an answer for you. Throw it at me. That's how it works. Throw it at me. It's funny because, um, going back to my childhood, I had a desk in my, um, bedroom and my dad built it me and it was a slide, slide in and out of this, um, side of the wall, so it didn't always have to be there.

I see. Okay. So you could use it for studying and I'm going back to a really. Old childhood memory here. And I used to walk in my bedroom where my desk was with a cup of coffee and say, right children. And I used to pretend I was a teacher. Oh, Claire, I love that for you. And sometimes when I come in my office here in my spare bedroom.

Um, I sometimes feel like I am that little girl walking into that space again. Oh my God, I love that. Was it, was it Mellow Bird's Coffee? And was it in a Tupperware beaker because I had that? No, it was Nest Cafe and I have a thing about cups. Oh, you see now, I mean like, I mean I, because I, I always have coffee as a kid and I was, I, I'm talking like about age six or seven and I remember it being mellow birds and every time I'd make this mellow birds coffee, you'd have to go mellow birds.

Because that was the advert. That was the advert do. Yeah. I had my brownie badge for brewing up. Did you or, or, or shall I say? My mom and dad used to say, um, if you make us a cup of tea, our coffee, it'll help you towards your, um, brownie badge. Wow. I love that. So train for barista. Yeah, it was just psychological stuff that they used to throw at me.

And now. And now you do coffee at the coast. There's the sled. There's madness. Thank you, mom and dad. Oh god, isn't it crazy? Oh funny. No. So going back to, sorry. So 43, so obviously this podcast is unraveling and so would 43, is that, was that your unraveling and what started to unravel for you? I can't even tell you the amount of things because we would be here all day.

But let me tell you one thing. If someone came to me who was younger than 43 and complained about a pain in their knee or ankle, I would say don't complain until you're 43 because then you'll know about it. I was at the doctor's every week with something going wrong. I was having. Surgery for having parts of me removed.

Um, I, I, when I look at it, I, I mean, I'm a very heavy record keeper, so in my phone I have notes of everything that happened, right, that I could maybe write a book about this experience. Um, and I saw at the start it was bad, but it just kept getting worse. Um, just with all these ailments, I felt like I was at the doctor's every week.

I wanted to go down the natural route of helping myself. Mm-hmm. But I ended up probably taking too many natural things that weren't working. So I got to a point where Claire had disappeared from the building. Right. And I was not me anymore, and I wasn't happy go lucky. Life's great, Claire. I was angry. I was.

Aggressive, um, to family, friends. Um, if someone was making the slightest noise anywhere, they had to watch out that I didn't have a word with them. It was all these things just came at once and there was not one thing that I just didn't have a good time for about seven years. Wow. So I mean, like, you know, I would, I would ask if it was kind of, um, if it was almost like a sudden moment or was it a slow burn?

But seven years is quite a, quite a prolonged period in which this, yeah. So in, in all of this. Obviously the role of, you know, you had this role, you had this kind of, this thing where you were this organized person, you were positive. What happened to that version of Claire in that time? He disappeared completely.

Um, the organization, not so much. I, I think because I've done that all of my life, it wasn't, it wasn't a skill that I lost. Mm-hmm. But the happy go lucky, positive, no, I didn't wanna go out. Uh, I didn't wanna socialize with people, didn't have anything to say. Um, yeah, I just thought, who, who want, who wants me to be there?

It was awful. It was, it was just the opposite of who I'm, yeah. It's very hard to, knowing whose I do today. It's very hard to imagine that version of you. So during that period, if you were, did you, did you have any kind of moment of like, if I'm not. If, if this is who I am, is this who I am now? Yeah, I did think there was a solution.

Um, and it took a panic attack on the 24th of May, getting off the train from work, and I ended up in the emergency department till three or four o'clock in the morning. Didn't know what was going on. Um, uh. Now when I read about perimenopause being shared, yeah, all of this ticks every single box. I'm not saying I had every ailment, but there was nobody around to talk to.

Yeah, there was nobody sharing anything on social media. Perimenopause. I'd never heard of it. No. Growing up I used to say, oh yeah, it's probably menopause. Um, it's, you know, it's coming, ready or not. I was not expecting what happened. No, I, I don't wanna scare people either, because this doesn't happen to everybody.

Everybody's different. Everybody has their different symptoms, different ailments, different solutions, and my biggest thing is if somebody says what to do to help yourself, there are lots of tips I can give that helps me, but it's not a one size fits all. You don't just go and get a patch of Stick it on.

No, you don't just. Like, I was hot a minute ago. I'm freezing now, so I'm just putting my scarf back on. Um, the mental torture of it, I think Sharon was not what I was expecting. And, um, I disappeared for a few years. You, you probably wouldn't know on the outside if you'd just met me either, because I was great at.

If I was out, I was, I did, um, GCSE drama, don't you know. Oh, I do know that actually. Yeah. So I am that I was acting, I'd go out and act. Yeah, yeah. That's interest because I was gonna say to you, you know, what did it, what did it look like versus how it felt? Because obviously, you know, you were going through this, all this.

Just complete meltdown inside or this kind of anxiety or this kind of like, you know, not feeling yourself. But how did that, what did that look like to others? I mean, did other people know that you were going through this? Yeah. To the point of when I ended up finding my solution or something towards my solution, my mom randomly bumped into my doctor and gave her a hug and said thank you.

Oh, wow. Because, um. I was not a nice person. Yeah. And my mum lives with me. For anybody who's listening who doesn't know that. Yeah. Um, and we get on really well and we have a right laugh. Yeah. Um, but I was not very nice. But, but also, you know, the education part that we now read about, um, it needs to be shared with people who you live with, not just yourself.

Yes. You know? Absolutely. Um, yeah, I mean, I'm very, I'm very lucky enough not to be sharing a bed, um, with somebody. So it doesn't matter whether I've got the covers on. Yes. On and off all night, or you know, I don't know. I even got to that part of the story, Sharon, but No, it's true. And it's interesting. I mean, like, I remember kind of getting to, oh, I think I was probably like 50, 51, and feeling like everybody was annoying me.

Like, what is wrong with people? What is, you know, and then having this moment of God thinking. I wonder if I'm going through the menopause because, and the, the worst thing about that is like reaching 50 and not knowing Yeah. What that meant. You know? I mean, it's unthinkable. You can't imagine being, you know, like a 12-year-old going through, starting her periods and not knowing what that's about, or a woman have been pregnant and not knowing what to expect yet.

Yet we get to this kind of pivotal point in life, you know, through our forties and fifties, and we have no idea what that means. We've got no idea what that, you know, I mean, and we, we think it means hot flushes, and if we're not getting hot flushes, then we can't be going through the menopause. We think it means being a bit like angry.

And if we're not angry then we're not going. And actually, it turns out, you know, there's this absolute huge, huge list of which I can probably tick probably about 80% of the things offered on that list that I didn't know that, you know, we didn't know because it was just wasn't, that information wasn't out there.

If I only hot flushes was all you got. Oh well that's right. I've never had a hot flush. So there we go. Oh, I can't be going through the menopause, but I think the biggest, I'm pleased for you. Shock for me. Yeah, I'm fine. So, you know, obviously I do share a bed obviously, but you know, if I'm, if I'm host in, obviously he just gets double covers, but that's fine.

Yes. But um. In terms of like, you know, what's like the physical symptoms, I didn't have so much, but it was like the emotional stuff. It's the identity, it was all of those, just all of that stuff just falling away. That's what I found the most challenging to deal with, was not, was not knowing who I am now.

Yes. And I understand that as well because during all of this, my, um, corporate role or role in the, uh, the city, um. Was made redundant. Right. So I'm like, in fact, my first thought wasn't, oh my God, where's my fortnightly money gonna come to, uh, come from to continue this lifestyle I've become accustomed to?

Yeah. It was, thank God I don't have to get on a train again. Wow. Yeah, because that was your anxiety moment that, that train. Yeah. Well then I couldn't, I couldn't even go on trains again after that because unless I was with somebody, right. I used to get off at Leadville and get the bus. I couldn't go through tunnels.

Okay. But we'd sidetracking from, you know, who am I? Yeah. Um, I went from being employed for 30 plus years to, no one's gonna tell me that I can't do this as my job anymore. Um, yeah, it was scary. It was scary. Um, and then the more people you speak to, like yourself and other women that have connected.

Whereas it's like, you know, one minute you are bringing up the kids next minute they're self-sufficient and doing their own thing or moving out, getting engaged and it's like, oh my god, you know, I don't have children. So I, I didn't have that identity shift with that. So it was probably, um, mine would be you can't keep going at the same speeds you are and it's okay.

So I had to give myself permission to slow down. Oh, and that was quite powerful because I'd always been here, there and everywhere. Slotting everything in my diary. Yeah. Yeah. So I did, I, I gave myself a, you know, time to have commitment, free time, which I'm gonna start talking about more, I think, because it's so easy to, sometimes it's like you on a runaway train, but unless you can pull a break to slow that down.

There's only you that can change something. You, you can't keep going at the same speed you always have. No, things have to change because whether it's mental or, um, physical things that are changing for you, you can't keep carrying on. Like you, you, um. Could go out three nights on the trot. Um, yeah. Go to the gym or two, um, well, yeah.

Even money. Yeah. One a week Sit off now, two in a week. Yeah. But you never, you know, you reinvent yourself to that. 'cause you were always so for me, it, it was at, at the start it was, um, hard to say no to people. To go places and it's like, why You always come everywhere. And I, I felt like I had to explain myself, but as my friends joined me on this journey, we have like an unspoken unwritten disclaimer that if it comes to the day and you're not really feeling like going to the event that you've had planned for the evening, it's okay to say I'm not coming.

Yeah. Because I wanna just, yeah, I love that. Sit and eat ice cream in my pajamas and cuddle me puppy and watch rubbish chili. Yeah. Yeah. Love that. And I mean, so this is obviously as you've kind of moved through your unraveling and you've kind of learned these lessons and now you put these like things in place, which is brilliant because obviously you have these, you know, unspoken rules or whatever with your friends.

So when you think of, what was the turning point for you? So obviously you say that you, you walked out of your, or you got made redundant from your career. Was that the turning point or was, was there something before that or? Um, no, it was after that actually I started doing my own business stuff and I got this big imposter syndrome 'cause I'd always been a people please as well.

And I've gotta get it right for everybody the first time. But then you all also hearing from business people, um, um, progress is better than perfection, so I really struggled with that. I really struggled from letting stuff go. Um, so I, I got myself a job as well as running my own business and it was at that point that was my turning point of I can't do all this anymore.

I can't do both, I can't, something's got to give. And I went for a massive walk, actually, um, along the coast and just thought, you need to change something, Claire, because. If you don't, no one's coming along to save you. What are you gonna do about your situation? You can't work, you can't run your own business, you can't go to all these events 'cause you're working.

And it was like a big scary time, but I thought, no, as my ward, I'm going to, um, choose me. Love, love that. And I suppose that's quite a revelation, isn't it? Because it's, yeah. It's that kind of like choosing, making the decision to choose you. Isn't something that women tend to do very often. No. No. It's like, how can I be busier?

I know that, you know, I, I, when that kind of happened to me, that was very much a kinda like, well, I'm just gonna have to get busy myself through this. I'm gonna have to work harder. I'm gonna do more. I'll, I'll put out more courses, I'll, you know, I'll just keep working. And none of that was choosing me.

None of that was choosing to slow down. And I think that's, so many women would say the same thing. So I think that's. Actually, you know, so, so you're saying a big walk. A big walk is the answer. Yeah. Come with me. Let's put it in the diary. What say, do you go see, ask the organizer? No, it wasn't a big walk.

It was a big buildup of, um, I would wake up in the morning, my alarm would go off at five 40. I'd go to my day job, which was 40 minutes drive away. Um, albeit part-time. Well, it was eight till two 30, so I'd come home, make a herbal tea, come to my desk, start my day job, behave till eight o'clock at night.

And I was doing that every day and I'm like, how do I get off this hamster wheel? Yeah, yeah. And it, yeah. And then the new journey began, but it was only at that point, Sharon, so how, when was that? 20, 21. So I was just coming up to 50. Yeah. Yeah. And um. Well, I feel like I'm in a good place. What do you feel that you are?

I mean, like, obviously you're in a very different space now and one where you've got more control. Um, you know, I think it's brilliant that obviously you're able to say to your friends, I don't want, I'm, I'm stroking the dog. I think that's a brilliant thing and that choosing you. But what are you, what are you still unlearning or still letting go of?

Um. The feeling of always being busy and packing my diary with things and not, um, I am, I don't do spontaneous very well. Never have, so there's a thread through life. Mm. I don't know where that comes from because if, if I look back on the times I've been spontaneous, I've had a brilliant time. Yeah. And then I say, I need to do more of this, so I plan it.

But that's not the spontaneous, that's, that's not how it works, Claire. No, exactly. So I'm still learning to unravel that Sharon, um, because I've always been like that. So, um, I wonder where that comes from. Even perhaps I need to work that out. Or, I mean, would it be, would it be wrong if I had a day planned where I was gonna be spontaneous?

I mean, is that I've planned day spontaneity? Well, I mean, most days for me, a planned spontaneity because I kind of have a loose plan of the day and then I'm spontaneous is what's gonna happen on the day. But yeah, uh, that makes me twitch. My life is planned, spontaneity. Any, anything too structured and I can't, I mean, as I said before, you know I am messy, middle for a very good reason, Claire.

So, you know. Yeah, I know. But you always show up when you need to. Well, that's what I figure. You'll always get done, you know, it'll always get done. I think putting little, um, strateg strategies in place. So when you said about being organized and then all of a sudden you are hit with this, you know, you don't know what's going on.

And I said, I don't lose the organization. Um. I did a little bit, so I have some new in, in a way of organizing myself. So let's say today, for instance, I have four time commitments. So I have to be somewhere four times to um, be with other people, just like this podcast 2:00 PM Uhhuh. So you are my third appointment of the day.

I. The night before, I look at my phone for my commitments and I set alarms to make sure that I've, if I'm coming on a video call, I have, I brush my hair. Have I, um, yeah. Have I got a glass of water? Um, have I got enough time to log on and take a couple of deep breaths before, you know? Yes. Just new ways of doing things.

Yes. Um, and sometimes it got so busy at the start of this year, January, February, March was crazy that I took. Commitment free April. Yes. I'm gonna trademark that, I think. Yeah. Yeah. That's great for you. And because I was at the point where I physically had to write things down the night before. I mean, I do anyway.

I plan for the week ahead, but the night before, I had to check in with myself and feel the safety of knowing that I was gonna turn up to the things that I needed to turn up to. Yeah. Um, and I think that comes with. All this new identity, um, thing as well. 'cause I was never like that. It was all in my head.

Think whenever I forced to remember it. Yeah, I mean I think that, I think the important thing with there is just checking in on you first. You know, does it feel safe? It's that kind of nervous system check in, isn't it? That that, yeah. Does this feel safe? Does this feel good for me? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And just going back as well, Sharon, to, um, when.

What, you know, what changed and how did you become, and I, I wasn't, I wasn't bothered about what I looked like. I used to get up every morning, have a shower, do my hair, put my face on. I don't wear lots of makeup, but anyway, um, and tottle out the house, whereas it got to the point of I'll just tie my hair back.

What does it look all right? Yeah. I'm going out. What? Yeah, that's not me. No. Um, interesting. Mm. So when you reflect back on that whole experience and that whole kind of journey that you've been through, what, what did it reveal about you? Oh, God wasn't prepared for this. Oh. It revealed that you are the person who can.

Help yourself. Yeah. Um, it revealed that, oh my God, I speak to people and they can help me. People have got the same stories. You can speak to someone who can help you unravel the things that are going on. And it surprised me that I'm not plugging you here, Sharon, but we did have some coaching sessions, didn't we?

We did. And the stuff that came up was not what. I would've predicted to have come up. And it really helped because I was able to then make plans for the way I changed some of my behaviors. Yeah. Um, with things that I was doing. I mean, I don't mind sharing. I wanted when I was working. I used to think, oh, it'd be lovely having a year.

I've to spend some time with my mom, you know, go and do this, this and that. And then when I was given that opportunity, I filled it with work. Yeah. And so I wanted, I mean, it sounds like the simplest thing, but I needed someone to help me work out how I made that happen. Yeah. Yeah. And you did. Yeah, I did.

Thank you. You did, you did make one message. I would like to, um, share with people. I forgot.

Do you know what I was gonna say to you? What is it you'd want to share with someone that's in the fog of the messy middle? And there you won because? Absolute of a moment. There's something I'd love to share while I've forgotten what It's

perfect. Absolutely perfect. Oh God, it was, um. Don't be afraid of sharing your story with somebody. Yeah. Because, um, we've all got something going on. Yeah. And it's so true. Do you know, and this, this as much as anything else is why I want, why I do these things. It's why I wanna do this, because I think we just need to have.

Stories from normal everyday women that are just kind of going, this was my experience. Yeah. And it was shocking. Yeah. This was my experience and I was fine. Yes. This was my experience and I absolutely melted down. You know, it's important that we hear all the stories. All the versions. Absolutely. Oh, Sharon, I could talk for days if, you know, I could get me record keeping notes out from my doctor's appointments.

I've got every blood pressure. Bloody from whatever date going back to 1990. Whatever. I will say. I will say, um, as well, I mean, I'm not a menopause expert, but ladies, keep up to date with your female appointments. Don't. Put everything down to menopause because, um, and just brush it off. Just make sure that you, um, keep on top of your regular checks of things that we've always had to have done.

You know what I'm talking about? Yes. That's very good, very good advice, Claire. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So if I was to just sort of close up on this, so if I was to. Pop you into a little time machine and you get 20 minutes to spend with your younger self, what nugget of wisdom are you gonna share with her? And that can be teen 20, 30, 40, whatever, whatever version of you.

You get 20 minutes with her. What piece of wisdom do you gonna share with her? I'm gonna say,

oh my God, I just, I like, I'm just processing this thought for a minute. Yeah. Um. I'm gonna say I used to read the Mr. Worry books. Uh, I used to read the Mr Member books. Right, Mr. Men? Yes. And Mr. Worry, it said at the back, um, Mr. Worry had, um, worried when he had nothing to worry about. And I would say worry less.

Um, I would say you're gonna have an amazing life. Um. Be believe in yourself. Believe in yourself. Yeah. Um, I would also say. Oh God, there's so much I can say. I just can't get out, Sharon. Well, you've got 20 minutes. I mean, you, you're gonna have to talk fast. I mean, I'd say to her, what book do you wanna tell her to read?

But obviously the Mr. Men, Mr. Worry, you can, you said it already. Oh, really? Was she gonna ask that? Like, is there a book that you'd tell her to read or a book that you'd tell her to ignore or some advice that you'd tell her to ignore? What was something she was given that you'd say to her? Just ignore that.

Oh my God.

I dunno, but I just thought of another book. Go for it. Who has Moved My Cheese? Who has Moved? My Cheese? Who has Moved My Cheese? If you're dealing with change, it's a great book to read and it's only a short book, but I was, um, splitting it with a partner at the time and I was devastated. Lots of things had gone on and I was reading this book as part of a training course that I was on.

Right. Um. And it helped me navigate that time in my life. Um, because it showed you that, ah, this is what I would tell myself and this is what this book taught me as well, that you have a choice. Mm. That's what I would say. Yeah. Um, you don't, you know, you'll meet people along your journey that might sway you to do things that you don't wanna do.

Um, you have a choice. I think that's it. Yeah. I've not planned any of this, Sharon, so No, that's 'cause I didn't want it to, up in my head here is I didn't want it to be planned. Yeah. I wanted it to be a conversation. It's a real, because it's so helpful, I think to other people there's no, you know, there's no script as we know, we can't do scripts, but it's just kind of helps to kind of like, you know, draw this stuff out because it's, because people go through this stuff and it's like, you know, that sort of thing.

What would you tell your younger self? Would she listen to you? That's the other thing. I mean, would you and yourself have listened to you? No, and I don't think I could picture myself at this age, no. Because I, I've never been some, I mean, yes, born planner, but I've never been somebody who understands the question.

What she five year plan? No. God. Geez. No. No, we've got a five minute one.

Sorry. I'm about a deafened people then if you've got the earphones on loud. Um, no, I don't understand that. I've always, um, made, I've always, everything will work out is another one. Like, whatever you wanna do, dream big girl and go for it. Yeah. And everything happens at the right time. I'm a great believer in that.

She write a book of, um, what's it like? Oh God, my brain's just gone now. Aw, positive affirmations. You know that thing. Yeah. Yeah. So finally then, if you could give one sentence to someone who is still deep in their own unraveling, what would it be? Stop and get a massive piece of paper. A pen and give yourself some time to brain dump everything that is in your head and then maybe look at that.

Um, and as you're writing things, you'll get a feeling and the things that are the nice things or the good feelings that you get when you are writing things down, that's what you need to focus on. And maybe do more of, like when I was. Deciding whether to leave my job or keep my business the job that I got for a year when I didn't believe in myself.

Mm-hmm. I got my pen and paper out and I wrote the pros and cons. And the pros outweighed the cons. Um, no. Oh, the cons of the job outweighed the pros. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And one of the things was, um, having. Starting the day as I wanted to start it because for 30 odd years I'd started it at a time somebody told me to.

Yeah. And that is not how I wanted to live my life. I didn't wanna look back and say, oh God, I feel a bit emotional, Sharon. I didn't wanna look back and think, God, why did I carry on doing all that when really I could have been. Having a walk along the coast and a coffee and starting on my terms. Like I never look at my phone in the morning until I'm ready to because it sends you in a different direction Yeah.

For the day. Um, that's a really important tip. Um, so yeah, I would that, yeah, if you've, if you're stuck and. You don't know that you need to unravel something, you just know that something isn't right or you've got a gut feeling that I think it's, you wanna change something because you know, often when you write things, it's like when, when they say, when you toss a coin and you already know.

What you want the response to be as to whether you feel happy or disappointed that that's the of that way. And I think, you know, I think that writing it down, writing down all the things, getting it outta your head. I mean, obviously as you know, I'm a big journaling fan. Yeah. So that's, for me, getting all that stuff out of your head onto a piece of paper is just gold.

Because it'll, because your body will respond to it in a way that kind of like, whether it's a positive or negative. And while I was talking about that, I was imagining myself doing it to, to remember that you get that trigger. Yeah. But also. I've journaled all my life without even knowing. It was called journaling.

Mm I, if I've ever needed to make a decision or been feeling uneasy or so about something, or feel like my head was full and I couldn't move forward, I would get a big piece of paper or a small piece of paper. But really it doesn't matter. Um. Just start scribbling away with everything that's in your head and honestly, just getting it out of your head.

Yeah. Makes you feel like a weight off your shoulders. Yeah. Yeah. That's why it'll forever remain my favorite talk in terms of Yeah, absolutely. I think it's, um, underrated, Sharon. Yeah. But again, I think you are talking at a time where this is all brand new to people, not journaling, but you sharing. How to journal what journaling is, um, and talking with people about the messy middle and unraveling.

I'm sure a lot of members of my family would've appreciated, um, somebody to talk to during any times in their life, not just necessarily, um, at a certain age. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's so important. Well, thank you so much, Claire. That's been absolute gold. I have loved our conversation. Thanks for having Michelle, my first podcast guest, obviously.

So I'm just gonna wrap that up for now and, um. Thank you very much, Claire. Thank you. Just to let you know that Claire and I were both impressed that we managed to keep that chat under two hours as talking is something we're both very good at. Um, it was so great to have that conversation with her and there's, there's something so powerful about hearing someone speak.

So honestly about the unravel bits, the stuff, there's no handbook for, you know, like navigating perimenopause 10 years ago or carving out a new path. Without a map or, or even letting go of who we thought we had to be. What really stuck with me was Claire's reminder that it's okay to slow down. That's sometimes the most productive thing we can do is to stop trying to push through and start asking, you know, what actually works for me?

I particularly love the part where Claire says, the one message I'd like to share with women. I forgot. I mean, is there anything more perfect on a midlife podcast and a moment of brain fog making an appearance. She did manage to recover her line of thought, but the timing was gold. If today's chat brought up anything for you, a light bulb moment, a laugh, or even just a sigh of relief, I'd love to hear from you.

You can pop into my dms, drop me an email. Or leave a review. It helps the show and me to keep going. And if you are EPP in Perth's, Northern burbs, go find coffee at the coast and tell Claire I sent you. Until next time, take care of you.