Feel the fear, and do it anyway - Robyn Munro on living a tenacious life

From small-town New Zealand to Asia’s luxury hotel circuit, from surviving toxic relationships to building a thriving bridal hair business, Robyn’s life has been anything but ordinary. 

In this conversation, we talk about the moments that shaped her,  the shock firings, the love stories, the brave leaps, and the heartbreaking losses,  and how she’s rebuilt herself each time. Robyn shares how she’s navigated her 20s, 30s, 40s and now her 50s, why tenacity has been her greatest asset, and why she’ll never settle for being an ‘old hairdresser.’ It’s an honest, funny, and deeply inspiring story about reinvention, self-belief, and living life entirely on your own terms.

You can see more of Robyn’s beautiful bridal and event hair artistry on Instagram at @robynmunrohair.

This episode briefly touches on Robyn’s experience living with a partner who struggled with alcohol. If you or someone you know is impacted by alcohol misuse, you’re not alone — in Australia, you can call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Alcohol and Drug Foundation on 1800 250 015 for free, confidential support

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Unravelling: The Diary of a Midlife Mess.

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Transcript

 I'm so excited for this conversation. We have done a lot of chatting and giggling in our dms for the last few years and I think we have like so many things in common. We have this kind of life that we kind of go, oh, and me, that's happened to me.

So this is really lovely to be able to get this opportunity to have a chat with you. Yeah, no, it's really great. I think when you said chatting and giggling, I think more giggling than chatting. I felt like for, for reference, Robin and I were on this this program, this course some years ago, and I felt like, I mean, we were probably one of the oldest in there, but I felt like we were the naughty girls on the back of the bus for the whole thing.

So it was a lot of silliness. But we did make it to the laugh. So that's all that matters. Okay. So getting into this today, obviously the podcast is unraveling, so we're talking about kind of like, you know you know, how, how we kind of, kind of get to this point in our life and we think we've all got it going on, and then all of a sudden things start to kind of unravel for us.

Mm. But we didn't land here as this woman in our sort of midlife. We, there were, there was. Versions of us before we got to this point. So I'm gonna take you right back and we're gonna start in your teens. Now, if I was to open up your teenage diary, what would it say? Well, it was probably pretty boring actually.

I was a pretty straight up and down nice girl. I wasn't really, I. I wasn't being really naughty. I wasn't being really nice. I was just quite average, you know, like I came from a very normal household and I was. I was pretty good. I mean, I wasn't sort of like sneaking out at night. I was maybe coming home late and pretending that I wasn't, you know, like sneaking in and then my parents would go Robin, are you home now?

You know, it wasn't, it wasn't too straight up and down, but I wasn't Yeah. Causing any issues at all. Yeah. And yeah, I had wanted to be a hairdresser when I was six years old and Oh, wow. Yeah. And then sort of, yeah. Got to 16 and left school and became a hairdresser and it all, you know, life just went sort of quite perfectly through my teens actually.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, so in your, in that period, who would've been on your wall or what books would you have been reading? It's funny you say that actually, because there's this channel, I can't remember what the channel is on tv, but there's, you know those programs that were on TV at the time and do you remember chips?

Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That one with the two cops on the motor. And I just thought, I just thought that that guy, poncho was so great and he was all over my wall. And then I think he turned out to be some horrible person, actually. Oh. And later years to come. It sort of came out that he was actually a really nasty guy and I was.

Oh, kind of a little bit devastated. I thought. What? But yeah, I'm fairly sure there's quite a few characters from the sixties, seventies, and eighties that were kind of going, oh dear, that was a bad choice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. We know better now. So so going into your twenties then, is there, what did success look like to you back in your twenties?

Well, I had done my hairdressing apprenticeship and I absolutely loved it. I was living my dream life. Hmm. And then I kind of had this scenario that happened, which I, it really blindsided me where I, it's, I'm trying to not tell a long story. You go for it. Basically, I stories. In this position where I was in a salon with a whole lot of women, a whole lot of girls.

Mm-hmm. And I had done my apprenticeship. There was a girl that was doing her apprenticeship a year behind me, but I had just had some things sort of come up that I had ended up going on the floor much earlier than what I should have, because I was just proving myself faster. Mm-hmm. I had also won a beauty com competition.

That year. So I was kind of like, everyone knew who I was and you know, there were a lot of young boys coming in to get a haircut 'cause they just wanted to see what I was like. And she was really, really jealous of me. And she actually started causing a lot of trouble within the salon. And long story short, I ended up getting fired, which was really weird because my perfect little life I've always been the good girl.

Suddenly it. What the hell? You know, like I yeah. It was really, really an interesting, it was kind of really blindsided me actually. It was like, wow, that's not good. And so then I was kind of like, oh, what do I do now? So I thought, right, I'm not gonna do hairdressing anymore. I just hate this industry.

It's so bitchy. So I kind of just thought, oh, maybe I'll just go fruit picking, you know, and it was just before Christmas. And I'd sort of, I. Had a sort of heart to heart with my parents and they said, look. And I said, what do I say to people when they say, why aren't you working there anymore? They said, tell 'em the truth.

Tell 'em you got fired and they know who you are. And they know that something went weird. You know? Like they know that you shouldn't be have been fired, you know? Yeah. And it was really good advice, actually. I think it was kind of like, if you are living an honest life, you can be honest, you know? Oh, ly and.

People will see that there was something kind of weird that was going on behind that. Yeah. So I decided I wouldn't be hairdressing and then I was going to the supermarket and buying food and moving around the town as I did, and everyone was like, what's happened? You know, where have you, where are you now?

So I ended up like the first person said, oh, I'll come around to your house and cut you here tonight if you want. Anyway, I ended up by absolute. Kind of like accident. Ended up becoming a home hairdresser, which was something I never wanted to do. But I had this, I actually had so many people that wanted me to still do their hair.

Yeah. And I had just finished my apprentice I'D sort of near the end of my apprenticeship. So I was fully qualified and it was kinda like, Hmm, okay, I'll do that. You know? So I started doing sort of home hairdressing and then yeah. Then. Behind all the scenes of the hairdressing side of it. I had met a guy who I completely fell in love with and we had got married.

I'd been married. I got married when I was like 21, which was, it was young, but it didn't felt feel young at the time. No. You know, I think when you're in your early twenties, you think you're. You think you're the shit, you know everything, you know? Yeah. You've lived a life. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. No, you know, and so many people said, you're so young to get married.

It was like, but I've met this amazing man. And like, what do I do? Just put him on hold for 10 years, you know, like, and I had, I had actually met an amazing man and I think it wasn't a mistake to get married to him, but then, you know, track forward to then turning 25 and then all of this other stuff unraveling.

And with the whole kind of, you know, suddenly working for myself going to people's houses and it was a really difficult time because it was quite personal when you go to someone's house and I was going through. All of this stuff in my private life with kind of going, do I wanna be here? Like I'm turning 25, what's going on?

I'm kind of, I was looking at my future as narrowing down going, shit. I guess the next move is I have babies and shit. The next move is I'm gonna stay in this town. And oh God, you know, and so I kind of had this. Kind of moment of like, what the fuck am I doing? You know, like, I've got so much more to do here.

And I'd had had an experience of, I used to play the guitar. I had kind of done a bit of singing in a band. And anyway, I was offered a job to become a singer in Asia. And it was kind of like 'cause they were looking for. Entertainers in Asia, I was kind of this blonde person that was gonna stand out amongst everybody in Asia because a lot of the five star hotels had Filipino bands.

So it was kind of like when foreigners came to this flash hotel, it kind of made the hotel a little bit more exclusive if they had a European more, more of a European person standing on the stage, you know? Yeah. So I got offered this position, you know, it was, it was a pretty nice thing handed on a plate.

You know, like, do you wanna fly to Asia and live in a five star hotel and sing five nights a week? It was like, yeah. But it was kinda like, but I have a husband and you know, what am I gonna do about that? So I really kind of just went down this big slippery slide of just going, ah, midlife crisis at 25, you know?

And I ended up leaving my perfectly good husband and going to Asia to become a singer, which completely shocked my parents, shocked everyone because it was like, yeah. What the fuck are you doing? You know, like, where did this come from? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like why would you let all of that go to do something so risky?

You know, like it wasn't something that people were doing. No one was like going overseas and being a singer when they weren't even really a singer in their real life, you know? Yeah, no, that's but for me it was like, this is me actually living my life, you know? This is. I mean, aside from wanting to be a hairdresser when I was six, I also fantasized about being a singer.

So it was kind of like, it was like, ah, I've gotta do this now. You know? And I, it's really interesting how my own daughter actually has had this very similar kind of thing in these early 20 years of thinking, my life's running out. I've gotta do it all now, you know? Yes. So I can really sympathize with her.

'cause I really had that same feeling. It was like. When you're 20, everyone thinks that 30 years old, so you kinda go, yeah, for sure. I've gotta do this before I get old, you know? Yes. You know? Yeah. So it was kind of like this yeah. So I kind of did the unraveling in my twenties. So you had a quarter century unraveling.

I mean, this is, I mean, I mean, but this, I mean, I, I guess that as you look back on that version of you, I mean that, I mean, to me, this sounds. Amazing. This sounds absolutely fantastic. And I'm quite sure at the time, you know, that people would've been thinking, what are you doing? What's, you know? Yeah. But it is, you know, it's, I suppose it's with the the benefit of hindsight and years and kind of seeing many lives and lived that you kind of go, oh my gosh, this sounds.

Fantastic. Good for you. You know, and I think interestingly, we were talking about the you know, the, the whole being fired from the salon. I think there is something about hairdressers that we don't necessarily get to wallow in our shame because we have to talk about it because people kind of wanna know.

So we don't get the opportunity to kind of go, I don't wanna talk about that, because, you know, we kind of have to talk about it. So, you know, I think that probably, did you, was that helpful to you really through that time? Well to, to be able to leave the country and not have to explain myself to all my clients really helped.

Yes, for sure. So it was kind of like, it, it was not really overnight, but it felt almost overnight and everyone just thought, wow, she's really lost the plot. Like to most of my, the people that knew me then I was just, she's crazy. You know? Like, wow, why would she do that? And. For a part of me, I did feel, I didn't feel like I'm a rebel.

I'm crazy. It was more like, ah, I, I know I'm crazy, but I just have to do this for me. You know? I just, yeah. I just have to feel like I've gotta get more out of, out of my youth, you know? And yes. Now when I look back, I have no regrets. I mean, I have regrets that I actually sacrificed a really good husband.

But, but at, at the same time, I think my life would be very different if I had stayed in that position. And I probably would've been one of those people that had had the midlife crisis. Midlife, you know? Yeah, yeah. As opposed to 25, which obviously Yeah. But get it outta the way nice and quick. That's what we say.

Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, it sort of has kind of created a bit of a theme that I kind of do these big, ah, moves every sort of, I don't know, 15, 20 years. Yeah. I think something about that because this, you know, it's interesting that there's a pattern to these things, you know, that you kind of, but I think almost it.

Do you, do you know that it's coming? Do you, can you feel the buildup to this kind of thing that's about to kind of like explode again and you're gonna burn the whole thing down again? Yeah. It is a little bit like that. And I think probably, I mean, it's like anything, once you've been brave enough to do it the first time you know that it worked and you think.

Damn it. I can probably just, I can, I can blow the house down again, you know? Yeah. I mean, it, it, yeah. It's not been maybe so dramatic. I mean, that, that time was quite dramatic. Yeah. Yeah. But I, I understand what you're saying. 'cause obviously, you know, you haven't done a few, a few, a few set fire to things myself and I'm all over that.

So obviously having had this, you know, this big quarter life crisis in your twenties and you had this, you know, this big turnaround, so then what was the thirties for you? Was that quite, was that a calmer decade or was that, what was driving you in your thirties? Well then in my thirties by this stage I had been living in Asia.

So I left New Zealand at 25. And then, so I was. You know, living in five star hotels, having a beautiful life. And yeah, it was, it, it was great. I then met my, what became my second husband and he was a businessman. I was working in five star hotels, so I sort of had a lot to do with people on holiday or on business.

And he was a businessman. He was from Sweden, and he actually thought that I was Swedish. So he started talking to me thinking, oh, great, you know, like. She's someone that looks familiar from home, you know? Okay. Yeah, so we kind of he wasn't, he was there on a business trip and he went back, he was living in America at that stage, so he went back to America.

So we had kind of, we were like pen pals for, for. I dunno, six weeks or something. It was really quite hilariously old fashioned. And then he came back to Asia and we, a romance started and yes, forward to being in my thirties. We'd got married and I'd had, I then had my first child at 30. I've gotta look at my timeline.

Oh, I, oh yes. At 33. Huh. Yep. And then I had my second daughter of 38 and so my thirties was, you would think happily ever after because I had married this gorgeous European man that had a very good job and he was making very good money, and we lived a really nice lifestyle. But what I didn't kind of realize when I'd got into this was he was actually an alcoholic.

So my thirties was tortured with sort of trying to deal with this almost denial that I had sacrificed a very good husband at the beginning to then trade him in for another husband that I thought was. I don't know if I thought it was an upgrade, but I thought I'd done Okay. Yeah. To realize that actually I had, I'd got a dud.

Not really, because he was an amazing person. Yeah. And I, for result of, you know, having that relationship and having two children, I've got amazing children. 'cause he was an incredible man. Yeah. But he lost his way. And I then had to suffer. So my thirties were actually quite sad because I was yeah, I was living this lifestyle of covering for him, for him the whole time.

I would sort of have to you know, make excuses for him or, and also just being actually the victim of, of his, not jokes, but, he kind of humiliated me a, a little bit in, in a way that people would not think it's humiliation, but you know, like. We were often at big dinners because he was a, you know, a corporate sort of a, in a corporate world.

So were often at big dinners and everything. And I would get up to go to the toilet and he would say at the top of his voice, oh my God, you've got such a nice ass, you know? And I would just be like walking to the toilet going, oh my God, you know, this is so embarrassing. Now everyone is looking at my ass, you know, and just sort of.

Stuff like that that he kind of saw it as, and everyone around us didn't actually know how bad of an alcoholic he was, but they thought, oh, it's just amazing. He loves her so much. He's always telling her how beautiful she is in public and. Always saying at the top of his voice across the room, I love you.

You know? Right. But little did they know that actually you know, that was the only time he was actually, not that he was nasty to me behind closed doors, you know, he wasn't beating me up or anything like that, but he was just, it was disappointing because. If you've ever lived with an alcoholic, it's, it's a hard, it's, it's hard.

It's not that easy. Yeah. So my, as I say, my thirties was really hard. Mm-hmm. And then it was kind of like burn the house down again. Okay. I'm leaving, I'm taking the two children. So at 40 I then came home. With my two children who were then seven and two. Wow. So, you know, it was, it was hard times really of kind of like, I've gotta get outta here.

And I had really tried, I had tried everything to help him and in the end it was like, actually, I, I can't help you. I can't actually save this. And I think because I had come from such a lovely, stable home life, I just kind of thought, that I had to stay, you know, that I had to put up and just make it right for my children.

I, I can't leave my children's father, you know, I have to stay and I just have to put up and shut up. But then I think. As time went on, it was like, and, and I think just like my turning point at 25, thinking, oh my gosh, I've gotta make better of my life. Before I hit 30, when I was coming to 40, it was like, oh my God, I'm turning 40.

Do I actually want to continue with this and just actually be miserable for the rest of my life and stay here for the sake of my kids, but actually. Putting my kids through this as well. Yes. So I, I went to counseling. I was really lucky we were living in Singapore at that stage 'cause I was 15 years away from New Zealand.

So we were living in Singapore and I, I managed to actually find a counselor. She was a New Zealander, which was really great because I felt like she, she got me a little bit more. Yeah. So I went to counseling just about what should I do, you know, should I should I leave, should I stay, you know, how do I negotiate, how do I sort of navigate myself through this?

Yeah. And she basically said, look. By staying, you were teaching your children how to become alcoholics. So I think that was, that was the catalyst. It was just like, yeah, okay, I have to suck it up and leave. And when I'd gone through that crisis at 25, I had found, I don't know how this book found me, but the book found me as books do.

And it was called Feel The Fear and Do It Anyway. And I think. That's probably my, that's probably my catchphrase in my life. Feel the fear and do it anyway. Yeah, so it was kind of like turning, turning 40. It was like, okay, I've gotta leave. I've actually just gotta leave. And I'm having my 40th in New Zealand by myself.

So, yeah. And my daughter was, it was August. One daughter had had her birthday at the beginning of August, and then by the end of August when my second daughter turned two. We had left in between the two birthdays. Right. And that was kind of, everything was kind of quite calculated because, you know, you've got these birthday parties organized.

My 2-year-old hadn't had a birthday party organized, but my 7-year-old did. So I had to stay for that birthday party. And then I think the week after we, we left and of course it actually in the end actually destroyed him because he was like. Oh my God, she's gone. I was his second wife, so he, you know, I kind of should have actually read between the lines of why his first marriage broke up.

But I didn't, I was just, you know, I. I think I actually should have been born in fairy land because I just see the good in everyone and everything's great and I don't ever, I mean, I've probably learned to dig a bit deeper with things, but Yeah. But I think we're, I think we're often like that, you know, we're often Yeah, come from this this lovely upbringing.

You know, we tend to kind of just see people for what they are as good people, you know? Yeah. I think we learn, we learn through other people the bad behavior. There's that, you know, it's a kind of like, oh, okay. Yeah, this, these people can do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So then that brings me to the forties and the forties was actually not about kind of like, I don't know, a lot of people when they hit 40, it's kind of like they're finding themselves or whatever.

For me it was just sheer survival. You know, I've got two young children, I am now in. It's, it was, it was home, but I hadn't lived there for 15 years, so I didn't have any friends in New Zealand anymore. I had a scattering of friends that had been patient enough to. You know, like when you're living overseas and I lived a very, what looked to be such a beautiful life, you know, like we had six weeks in Sweden in the summer and we'd come back to New Zealand for six weeks and I had all these beautiful clothes and you know, I looked like I was having actually this.

Fabulous life, even though no one knew that I was having a real struggle and the beautiful clothes and the holidays was actually just a, a, a kind of like a facade of what was behind, you know? Yeah. So I came back and a lot of my friends were like, oh, I can't relate to her. You know, she's just, she, she's had a maid and you know, 'cause we did in Asia just like everyone else, you know?

Yes. Yeah. So I kind of had to really be humbled coming back, trying to prove to everyone, look, I'm actually. I am Robin, you know, like I am that person that is a country girl that actually is a genuine person that you know, I'm not a, I'm not stuck up and, you know, so I had to, I had to kind of like put my wardrobe in a bag and just kind of really just get back into Kiwi life and the real, the realness of life.

And I think, I mean, what makes you real is two small children, especially when you're looking after them by yourself. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. So that would've been a real challenge. So like, so for you, for your forties, I mean like I often refer to my thirties as this kind of lost decade because it was so full on and so busy and all the rest of it.

But I guess for you, your forties was that, and as you say, the driver survival at that point, then there's no kind of like, you know, you don't have any moments to kind of go, oh, who's robbing in all this? You are just. Yeah, I guess I'm just, just basically dog paddling my way. Yeah. You know, to the keep to stay on the surface and trying to, you know, and also, you know, I had to make money.

What was I gonna do? I had kind of you know, I had been out of the loop from New Zealand, but also out of hairdressing, you know, I hadn't been hairdressing. I'd been a singer and I'd been an expat wife. So, so with that, it was kind of like, okay, well what am I gonna do now? So I had this early on, sort of in, it was probably like within the first year of being home.

I had this really I am going to get emotional now with talking about some people. But I had this really good friend, she had been a client. You know, all through those twenties. And she had been to the salon when I was like 16. And then when I'd left, she'd, you know, I'd done her hair every week at her home.

And she was just this lovely, same age as my, oh, a little bit younger than my mom, but she was like a motherly figure. But she was a little bit more, not cooler than my mom, but she was just a little bit more open-minded. So when I left New Zealand and left my perfectly good husband, she was not like, oh my God, what are you doing?

She's going. Well, you know, you've got guts and good luck, you know? Yeah. And she came to visit me in Asia a couple of times, and so she was always quite a sick person. She had, she was on dialysis and she's, she had always had health problems and you know, as I say, she had come to see me in Asia and every time I'd come home I would always try and get to visit her and her daughter used to ring me and say.

I just love it when you're home because it brings life back to mom. Sorry. So she got, she said to me, okay, now you're living in New Zealand. I'd really love a decent haircut. 'cause I actually haven't had a decent haircut for 15 years. So can you come around and do my hair? Because I've got my 70th coming up and I really want great hair for my 70th.

So I had kind of like, well, I don't even know if I have scissors anymore. You know, I'd done the odd haircut, my kids or whatever. Yeah. But I wasn't hairdressing at all. So I found my scissors and I went round and cut her hair and we had such a great laugh and it was just, it was actually just great.

And I really enjoyed cutting her hair. And she said to me, oh, you should get back into hairdressing. You know, why don't you, why don't you start a little salon under your house and you know, I can support you if you need money, or you know, I think you should just do it. And I had. In the, with being married, I, I did actually have my own home and it did have a basement that was, had nothing in it.

She goes, why don't you just turn that basement into a salon? And I said to her. I don't wanna be a home hairdresser. I mean, God, that's nf. And she said, you won't be nf. You know, you could do it really nicely. Like I think you should do it because it'll be so much easier to have your children. They can be at home and you can be working.

Yes. And I kind of, I didn't really give it a second thought. I thought, I don't wanna do that. I'm never gonna be a home hairdresser. Yuck. You know? And then two days later she actually died. And it was, it was just life changing. Wow. And I was absolutely heartbroken. I, I was just really sad that I'd missed out on all of those things, you know, all of that time that I could have shared with her, you know, and I think.

I think what had happened was I had come home and because I was so busy with, you know, working, I was doing color consulting for a curtain shop. I was working there. I was dropping my kids off at daycare. I really had no time to be social. It was really. Wow. I was just working and doing children. I was seeing my parents, but I wasn't, I wasn't really socializing at all.

And the only reason why I'd actually spent time with her that week was because she'd asked me to cut her hair and I'd said to her, oh, we've gotta spend more time together, you know, now I'm home. She said, my God, I've actually, I actually feel like I saw you more when you were overseas, and I would always get you.

Always come to see me when you were on holiday, you know? Yeah. So I, it really kind of was this massive big like moment where I thought, Jesus, you know, like I've gotta spend time for the people that I love, you know? So it was actually, she had also always said that I would sing at her funeral, which was so annoying.

Of course, when her daughter rang me, she said, you realize, mom always said that you would sing at her funeral. I said, oh, Jesus, really? Like, why would've she done that to me? And she said, I don't know, but she said, you would. So I, and she said, and I said to her, what am I gonna sing? She said, oh, she wanted you to sing Amazing Grace.

And I said. No way am I singing Amazing Grace. No, no, no, no. And she goes, well, you have a think about it. The funeral is next week. You know? Wow. So that night I packed up the kids. They went to mom and dad's, and I basically just. Spent the whole night writing a song for Earth, sorry, I'm so bad at crying your time.

And that's something that gets worse with age. So I wrote a song and I think probably in that process of writing the song, rehearsing it, and getting ready to perform that at the funeral. I kind of had this another moment where it was kind of like, okay, I have to make a change. I have, I am gonna open this salon and I am going to, you know, spend more time with the people that I love.

And yeah, I'm gonna open a salon. I'm gonna go back to hairdressing. And I kind of thought, yeah, I'm, I'm gonna do that. And then at her funeral, I can remember talking to her sister and she said, oh, what are you doing now? I said. Actually, I'm gonna open a salon. And she said, oh, where's it gonna be? I said, I don't know.

I've actually just the first time said that out loud. And she said, pardon? And I said, yeah, it was your sister that told me that I should, and I'm gonna do it. And so it was kind of like saying it out loud to her. It was like, yeah, okay, I'm gonna make this happen. You know, I've, I've done this thing before.

I've felt the fear and I've done it anyway. So I went into work that next week and I said, I'm resigning. He said, oh, what are you gonna, what are you gonna do? You know? And I said. I'm going back to hairdressing. And he said, I didn't even know you were a hairdresser. And I said, well, now you do. You know? And then that afternoon a client came in and she said she said, oh, I just wanted to come in and thank you so much.

I love my curtains. I can't wait to do the curtains in the bedroom, and I can't wait for you to come back and help me design on the fabric. And I said to her, well, actually, I'm not gonna be here. And she said. What's happening, where are you going? You're so good at this. And I said, I'm leaving. I'm, I'm actually going back to hairdressing.

And she goes, what? And I said, yeah. And she goes, I didn't know your hairdresser. I said, no, apparently no one did. But actually I was. And she said, well, I need a new hairdresser. And I said, what? And she said, when are you opening? And I said I don't know, six weeks. 'cause I thought, shit, you know, I've actually gotta figure out how I'm gonna do this, you know?

Yes. Yeah. So I had complete gutting of the downstairs. Wow. Okay. So so it turned out that that lady was actually my first client, right? It, it was her, she had just had her haircut and she said, right, I'll give you six weeks 'cause I'm gonna be due, I'm gonna be going overseas. I'll need my cut and color done.

So it became this kind of, it was a timeline. I felt like I was on one of those shows on tv, you know, when they've got like the block where they have six weeks to do something. Yes. And then they, yes. And even the night before her her cut in color, you know, the color hadn't arrived and Right. You know, were still hanging wallpaper and Oh, it was just, it was actually quite funny, you know.

So yeah, so my forties was also. Creating that business and having my kids upstairs sometimes, you know, not watching, watching TV if I, if I was running late or whatever, but it meant that I could revolve my diary around them going to dropping them off at kindy and, you know, I basically, my schedule was my free time with them being at kindy school.

Yes. 'cause of course the ankle was only two or three by that stage. Yeah. So yeah, so it was, it was just, yeah, surviving, working, and. Consequently kind of building a reputation. I, I referenced before, I never wanted to be a home hairdresser. Like that for me was just disgusting. And I can remember my mum said to me when I first started hairdressing, oh, you know, Rob hairdressing is great because when you have a family you can do people from home.

And I said, I am never gonna do that. So I think I was determined. Yeah, I was determined I was not gonna be. A home hairdresser, you know? Hmm. And the fact that I was downstairs from my home, they didn't actually have to come into my home. Like it was a standalone thing. Yes. And I really want, I created a very boutique environment.

You know, I, I was very versed in interior design from my past life and had done curtaining and all the rest of it. So, it was a really beautiful space that I, I had created, but I also created actually a safe space for other women because I wasn't really targeting men or children. In fact, I can remember my mum saying to me when I sort of took, told her about.

My kind of dreams for my salon and what sort of client I'd have. And, and she'd say, oh, well, you know, you could have this person. I said, I'm not doing men. And she goes, oh, okay. And I, and then she'd say, oh, well, you know, it'd be great for the kid. And I said, I'm not doing kids. No, not doing kids. And then she'd say something about, oh, well I think, you know, so and so wouldn't mind having her done.

I said, I'm not doing old ladies. And she goes, oh my gosh, who are you actually gonna to do Robin? And I said, I don't know. Just no kids. No men or no old ladies. I love this because obviously today, you know people, there are obviously niche salons in terms of like people do long hair or only do blonde hair.

Yes. But you'd started this many years ago. I'm nicheing down. This is a boutique. Five minutes just as I want. I love this. Yeah. And then I niche down even more, but that's coming. So so, so so I was gonna say like, so through all of this, so obviously through all of these decades and when you, when you looking back at your younger self and all the kind of versions of you that has been, is there, what's, what's the thread that has run through it all?

And I mean, I think, I mean, from listening to you, I can see a thread, but I mean, like, for you, what's the thread? I dunno. I, I just, I just think that I just are constantly, I don't know. I don't know. What's the three, Sharon? You tell me. I mean, real tenacity. Do you know what I mean? There's this kind of like.

This sort of solid grounding in a sense that kind of goes, no, I'm more than this. I'm better than this. And this striving constantly it, but it, but it is tenacity through it all because, you know, it's not, it's been a re it's a, it's god, it's a fast, you should write a book. This is a fascinating course. Say that, and I said the long version, you would really want me to write a book.

I mean, like, I'm here, I'm here for not asking the questions. I could literally just kind gone. On Robin and I'm, I'm loving this. So for you, was there, throughout all of this, is there like a belief or is there a strength or a struggle that just keeps showing up through all of this? I think, and I, it's really interesting that I'm now saying this to my own children, don't be a victim.

You know, like, I kind of feel like if something is not right, change it, you know, like, don't be a victim, just do something about it, you know? Yeah. So I think, and I always used to, my father had said to me on a few occasions, you know, you're very brave to, for what you've done. At times, and I, I would just laugh and say, I'm not brave.

Ignorance is bliss. You know, because often I would go into it, I'd never calculated how I was gonna do anything. You know, like I never, God, did I have a business plan when I started that salon? No. You know, did I actually even think twice about. The ramifications of, you know, the 1.0 of leaving your husband?

No. Yeah. You know, it was, well, you know, especially leaving your husband moving countries with two small children. It's, it's actually, it was a, it was a big thing and if I had known how big it was, I probably, it probably would've been much easier for me to stay. Driving my Mercedes and living in a nice house and just turning a blind eye to what was going on, which was what a lot of the other expat's wife were doing.

Wow. You know so yeah, so I guess, I don't know. I, and yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't say that I think I've got grit. I think. I think it all comes down to it. I will go, ah, I'm, I'm gonna claw my way forward, you know? Yeah. So as you, you've obviously, you are now kind of liking your, your girls have grown up now and obviously they're growing off and living their own incredible lives.

Yeah. And so now you see yourself, so what, what do you, what would you call this chapter that you are in now? Well, I have to say, I mean, you and I have had these conversations where it's been like, what? What am I doing? You know? Yeah. That's why you're here. And I feel like my fifties was definite. My, or I'm still in my 50, I'm now 58, so I think my 1550s have has been kind of like.

A reflection of, okay, where have I been? Where am I going? And what am I doing now? You know? And so I think particularly, I think what happens in your fifties is you start realizing that the next thing is your sixties. And you think, what the heck? And I think I've been constantly thinking in my fifties. Oh my God.

I do not wanna be an old hairdresser. I mean, as you know, and we will, we'll tell the rest of them that are listening that now I've become a bridal hairstylist, which was, you know, niching down again from doing private clients to then realizing that there was a need for going to people. And, you know, I'd done the, going to people's houses thing before.

So I started doing my bridal hair styling and that. Through that and then doing some peoples here that are very influential and kind of. You know, in New Zealand, no one's really famous, but people that every, people that everyone knows in New Zealand. Yeah. I mean, I was actually just shouted out in the hair all this morning as being the hairstylist of one of these new new Zealander that everyone knows.

Right. And ironically they put the bloody link to someone else's page. And I thought. Isn't that right? Okay. Rude. Yeah. Okay. So that business has, has actually done me, you know, it's been a very good service to me. I have now in a position where, and it wasn't this si this one wasn't calculated, it was that.

Feel the fear and do it anyway. Type style of not researching how to become a celebrity hairstylist or how to become the IT hairstylist. It wasn't like that at all. It was just me being not even brave enough, but just being in the right place at the right time and actually just being probably, you could say, talented enough.

To for people to go, oh, you're actually really good. I'm gonna, and also just doing things like, I think what made me a much better hairstylist because now I don't consider myself as a hairdresser anymore. I'm only cutting hair. I'm not doing color anymore. I'm only cutting hair one day a week for my regular clients, my best friends that, you know, we talked about that.

How, yeah. You can't get rid of those people, but they're actually your friends anyway. And you just keep cutting your hair. Yeah, but now I'm only doing hair styling. And you know, it has, it has been that season in my forties when I had young children and, you know, helping out at, at school theater. And then my youngest daughter is actually a musical theater performer, so I've been backstage working for free.

Yeah. You know, doing things really fast and it's actually made me a better hairstylist because all of that, that kind of fast work and doing lots of different eras with theater. Yeah. And having to do wigs and things like that. That's actually probably been the training that I needed to be the person that I the, that I am now, you know?

Right. So that's, I mean, first of all, that that work is so much fun and it's just, you know. So so freeing in a sense, because you're not, you know, you're kind of just, it's like you've got the freedom to create with these things, which I love that. Yeah. I'm also gonna address the fact that, you know, you are saying that, I mean, obviously you are incredibly skilled at what you do, incredibly talented, what you do.

And, but it is brave because people weren't doing those things. People would've kind of gone, oh no, that's not for me. You know? A lot of hairstylist, hairdressers that don't do what you've done. But as you say, you do, you do have this, you know, you are, you're incredibly skilled and talented. But you think that kind of came from the, from this going musical theater thing with your daughter as well?

Yeah, and I think it was actually just when I started doing that backstage stuff and having to use wigs, I thought. Far out. I don't know anything about synthetic hair. I actually don't know much about putting a wig on. So I actually realized that I, there was still so much more in the hair world that I didn't know, so that made me hungry to learn more, and I think it was from.

Kind of really realizing that I, I, I had still so much to learn and I still believe I have a lot to learn, you know? Mm. I think that's what makes us good, because we are not, I, I kind of, when I'm now training other people, I'll say to them, you know, if you get to a point that you think, you know, in everything.

Stop, walk away. Absolutely. Yeah. 'cause you'll never know everything because trends change. Products change. Yeah. You know, you are constantly, you're constantly having to reeve. I feel like I'm, I'm kind of transforming into a new hairstylist probably every couple of years, you know? Yes. And I had a training with the school.

She had gone come to a workshop of mine about five years ago, and she goes, but I thought you said, you know, when I came to you last time, you said that you were pre-styling everything, but now you're saying you need to do this and that. And I said. That was then things have changed now, you know?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And whether or not it's just because I have learned that, or whether or not things have changed, but I, you know, as you know, I mean, this is not a podcast about hairstyling, but No, but it's, but it's true. But that we constantly evolve and I think it's, and I think that's such an important thing, you know, if you ever think that you have, you know, you are good enough in that sense, or you've kind of like, you don't need to learn anything more than to step away because you are, you know, I think, I think that.

That open mind, that kind of like new beginning start to your mindset is so important and this probably will continue for you to help you evolve and kind of become whatever it is that you are ultimately going to become, whatever that is. Yeah. Yeah. So is there, so for you, I mean, I've, I mean, as you said this, this has been such, a constant state of unraveling in a sense, you know, because there's an unravel, there's a rebuild, there's a kind of like we start again. That's why when you said, you know, is there a moment, it was like, I'm just unraveling the whole time. But I think it's so interesting because obviously for for many people, and I know I'm definitely gonna include myself in this, is that so much of my own identity was wrapped up in my job in what I did.

And when I questioned, you know, if I didn't do this anymore, who would I be? That's kind of when my own unraveling began, because there was that real sense of like, well, who am I without this? You know? Yeah. And so then that's. You know, it's like the you know, little Russian dolls, you know? Yes. It's kind of like having to pull off on which version is you, you know, which, who's the you inside of all that.

So that was a real, a real, or has been a journey of discovery for me and the kind of like, am I that, am I that? Mm. And. And obviously I closed down truly gorgeous. I closed the business, but that was like, I almost had to let the identity go. But I still love doing hair. Yeah. I still love doing hair, you know, so that part, that's not an identity, that's just a, an absolute love, a passion, you know, that I still have for it.

And, and I think that's what we share together. Yeah. I think that's probably why you and I are such good friends, because we are actually hair nerds. Yeah. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And when you say I wanted to be a hairdresser when I was six. That's true. Yeah. And I still have, you know, like, it's really interesting because even, you know, last week I came home and I said to my partner, oh, I had such a great day today.

And I just, I am always thinking there's not a day that I don't think I love my job. You know? I mean, yeah. I love my job a lot now when I'm flowing in helicopters to go places and, you know, to do hairstyling and stuff like that. Yeah. It helps me to love my job even more, but I actually, but you've, you've worked to that, that wasn't a kind of like, do it with that in mind, this was a kind of like, progress to this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, that has been my constant, I think is that, that creativity. But here, creativity has been a constant and it will not alter, I don't think, I think I'll be doing it for. A few more years. Even though I've said I do not wanna be an old hairdresser, but I'm not a hairdresser anymore, I'm a hairstylist.

I remember saying that, oh my God, I can't imagine doing a hair in my forties, my thirties. I gotta go. I'm gonna have to find another career. I can't imagine being an old hairdresser in my forties. I know, it makes me laugh now. Yeah, I know. I, I hear you. I, I do hear you. And I'm always surrounded by young people, you know, like our industry, especially with bridal, it's a really young industry, you know?

Yes. You usually find makeup artists are usually young. Yeah. You know, and of course the bridal party is always young. And I, I guess it is nice because it helps you, it does help you kind of stay young in a sense that you sort of see other people doing stuff and you think, yeah, I can do that, you know?

Yes. Oh, AB God. Absolutely. I mean, apart from the fact that my body's broken from it, you know? Yeah. So I'm there taking salt baths in the morning, kind of going, oh, lot more that No. Still ring young and lovely. Exactly. So I would say, I mean like, so during this whole period, my God, it's been such a, a full and fabulous life and an absolutely amazing story is the, what's the best piece of advice that you've ever ignored?

Oh, ever ignored. Gosh, I don't know. To be honest, I really take, I mean, if someone is giving me advice that I really respect, I will actually take it on board. I, I've always sort of said that I love constructive criticism and, you know, I think. With clients that get to know you so well and they know you.

I mean, my clients know my backstory and there, there are a few wise clients that will give me advice and I will take it. So I don't know if they'll be actually, I don't know if I've ever ignored advice. If, if I have, I've just ignorantly just carried on. Let it go. Yeah. Knowing that I shouldn't, I think actually that's a nice thing that as you, you know, you build this client time, you have these people around you that are.

I mean, I would say that my circle is absolutely jampacked with wise women, which I love. You know, to be like the most, the least wise of all my friends is just an absolute joy for me, because I just feel that my life is so rich because of all the fabulousness. And so I'd be happy. I'd be like, yeah, I'd be happy to take on any of their advice Really.

Yeah. Is there anything, sorry, carry on. Oh, I was gonna say, I, I have really realized in my later years that everything happens for a reason. And I feel like even though you think maybe I should have done that, it all comes round and what the disaster that you thought was, how am I gonna get through this?

Or why did that happen? You know, you then years later go. That's why, because that's come out of it, you know? Yeah. I mean, a really good example of that to where I'm heading into my sixties now, is that my daughter my eldest daughter is now living in Sweden from her Swedish father. She had a passport.

He actually passed away about nine years ago because he was an alcoholic, you know? Yeah. He was, he was that bad. So she went back to Sweden to sort of find her roots, and she's ended up. She loves it. She's not coming home. She's been there for three years and we have recently just bought a house over there.

Oh my God, that's so exciting. Yeah. And I feel like probably if you'd said to me six months ago, you know, how's, what's the future for you? I would've been going, I don't know, you know? But now I feel like, and if we reference back to the little dollies, I feel like I'm go, I've gone back three dollies.

Yeah. And sort of gone back to life. In my thirties where I was, you know, living in different, two different countries. I feel like I've got, I've gone back there, but in a happy environment of having a great Yeah. Now. Yeah. And having, you know, healthy, beautiful children and being able to go back to Sweden in a different, in a different context.

You know, we are now gonna enjoy Sweden for our Sweden of what it was and not. His Sweden, you know, where it's actually a different, different part of will be. And I kind of think I am actually really excited that that's come background and you know, that I'm bringing that part of my life back into who, who I am now with a new partner and my grown up children and yeah.

Yeah, and looking forward to, you know, now doing some European weddings and having time over there. Not living there full time, but certainly I just, this is just such a lovely story because there's, as you say, like, you know, we go back to that Russian doll thing. It's just that whole kind of like, what were the bits I loved?

What were the bits that I really want to you know, make more of or just kind of like. Step back into, but in, but with who I am now. And of course there's such a journey for you, you know, but but so, so rich, such a rich fighting journey. So if you were to offer some advice to somebody that is currently in their messy middle, what would that be?

Feel the fear and do it anyway.

I think, I actually think that in that messy midlife, I think we lose our confidence. You know, I think it's just so easy to to just talk yourself out of things so easily, and your inside voice is. Suddenly becoming very loud. Mm. And you overthink everything. You know, I leading up to kind of my forties, I was a very confident person.

But then, I don't know, something clicks in and suddenly you go, should I do that? You know, like, you know, oh God, you know? Yeah. So I think turn the inside voice off. Follow your heart and do do stuff for you. I think as, as women too, we, we spend all of those years bringing up children, just being the second citizen because the children are the first citizen.

Yeah. You know, and you, you kind of just put yourself into the backseat for so long, but I think it's like, okay, you're in the front seat, you're in the driver's seat, and you're driving towards your future. You're not, yeah. Don't be a victim, you know? No, this is, oh, that's absolute solid gold advice because I think you're absolutely right.

There is something about, I think it's something about perimenopause particularly that nobody talks about. You know, we talk about the whole kind of, the very physical effects of it, you know, that the hot flushes and the, you know, the rage and all of those things. But actually what people don't talk about so much is the, is that sudden loss of confidence and that self worth and all of those things.

And I think that that message of kind of like, no, take control of that, you are the number one citizen, or just putting yourself in that. You know, in that role, kind of putting yourself first, and I think this is a thing that women. Haven't done for, for so many decades. You know, we, we've always been kind of, you know, the one behind pushing everybody else and making sure everybody else is okay.

And then we kind of get to this point in life and we look at this woman in the mirror, we're not very kind to her because she's not the, you know, the 30-year-old that you probably wants looked at. Mm. And then that, that negative voice creeps in. So I think it's I think that's such a, a fantastic message there for, for any current messy middles.

Yeah. And I think you know, you spend your youth worrying about what you look like. Yeah. But then when you get into your older years, it's like, don't worry about like, don't try and keep up anymore. My God. You just, you just who you are. Yeah. Actually give your wisdom. To everyone, you know, you can, you can share what you've learned.

Yeah. And prove that you actually can, you know that you are that amazing person that you are and don't be a victim of, oh, but I look old, or, oh, I've got fat. Or, you know, I mean, I had a really interesting example I did a wedding years ago where the auntie was. Lorraine Downs. Now, I dunno if you remember her, but she was Miss New Zealand that became Miss Universe.

Oh, okay. So back in the eighties and she was like so famous in New Zealand and she's beautiful. She's such a beautiful lady. And I was doing the, the niece's hair and she came into the room and I was just like, you know, I had that, I had that moment of you know, in Mary Poppins that, you know, close your mouth, Michael.

We are not confident. I was like that. Whoa. That's Lorraine Downs, you know? Right. Okay. Oh my God. She's actually, I can see why she was Miss Universe. She is beautiful. Beautiful. You know? Yeah. So a week later I was talking to someone that was actually working for the wedding at the venue, and I said to them, oh my God, did you see Lorraine Downs?

Isn't she just stunning? And she goes. Lorraine Downs. Oh yeah, I did see her. Honestly, Robin, there were so many Stu stunning 20 year olds at that wedding that I, she actually kind of blended in and it was this light bulb moment that I thought actual natural beauty doesn't count over youth. Yeah. So. You know why compete with it?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You can pull your face full of Botox. You can go on all the diets. You can try and make yourself look young. I mean, we'll talk about the elephant in the room. You can get a spray tan when you've got something coming up. You haven't got that much brain. I have to. Say, yeah, for the listeners I had it.

I, I'm processing my spray tan because I've got a bit of a big weekend socially and a spray tan is when I'm living my best life. I didn't lose the weight that I thought I was going to, so I thought I'll just get a spray tan, go to spray tan every time. Absolutely.

Yeah. You know, you're who you are and be proud of it and just go, you know, I've got. These things. I might have a limp or I might be flushing at some time, or I might look a little bit lined or whatever, but it's all telling a story, you know? Yeah. It's, it's telling a really lovely story. And don't judge me for how I look, listen to me and learn, you know?

Oh my God. That's just like such a, so many wisdom bombs through this. Oh, it, this has been just one of my favorite conversations. It's just been such a joy to talk to you. You're such a natural storyteller. And yeah, it's, and as I say, just so much, so much beauty and wisdom to share and I, you know, I know that a lot of people are gonna, are gonna get a lot out of this.

Great. Thank you so much Sharon. It was nice to be here. Yes, so lovely to speak to you and yeah, I can't wait to get and share this with everyone. Thank you. And I'll rinse my tan off now. Okay. Right. I'll speak to you again soon. Thanks Robin. See you.