I Can Do Both - The cost of capable with Tara Clark

This week on Unravelling, I'm joined by Tara Clark — makeup artist, business owner, mother of four, and a woman who has spent most of her life being told she's superwoman. And for a long time, she believed it.

We follow Tara from a dance-loving girl who found high school friendships challenging, through a wild and liberating early twenties, a marriage, a separation, an IVF journey that gave her twins, and somehow — against all odds — four children under four. 

Along the way she built Black Lash Makeup and The Lip Lab Perth, tattooed "I can do both" on her arm, and kept pushing through.

Until last year, when everything caught up with her and life unravelled.

In this conversation we talk about what it really means to be part of the sandwich generation — still raising kids while watching your parents need more of you than you have left to give. We talk about performing strength, the cost of being the one who holds it all together, and what it looks like when that finally starts to crack.

Tara's unravelling isn't a breakdown. It's an awakening. And her honesty about where she is right now — still in it, still figuring it out — is exactly the kind of conversation we need more of.

Funny, warm, and completely real — this one's for every woman who's ever thought "I should be doing more."

The Glow Deeper Retreat — Swan Valley, Perth

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Whether you're 30 and your makeup bag is a complete mystery, or you're in midlife and barely recognise the face looking back — this day is for you. We'll work through what you already own, make it actually make sense, and send you home with more than a better routine. You'll leave with that feeling — you know the one — where you look good, you feel good, and that energy ripples into everything.

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👉 https://events.humanitix.com/the-glow-deeper-retreat

 Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Unravelling: The Diary of a Midlife Mess.

If something resonated with you today, I’d love to hear your thoughts,  come join the conversation on Facebook and Instagram @theglowupguide_au or visit sharonwilkesburt.com
for more resources and support.

Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review if you’re enjoying the journey so far!

Transcript

Good morning, Tara. It is just so brilliant to have you on here with me. You and I have been friends for a good many years. And I think one of my earliest and funniest encounters with you is when we had a job together and it was the middle of winter and we were in this big warehouse and we were working together on this lingerie shoot and the model was absolutely... We were complaining about how cold it was as we were sat there with all our fleeces and blankets and everything wrapped around us.

And this poor model is sat there with goosebumps in her little tiny little bits of lingerie, which, you know, not complaining at all was, I think you and I did quite a lot of complaining about how cold it was. yeah, quite funny. Anyway, welcome to She Was Getting Paid. We would do it purely for the love. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so excited, as I say, to have you here.

Tara (01:02.481)
in her underwear.

Tara (01:10.218)
Yeah, yeah. I think she was getting paid though.

Tara (01:18.85)
Yeah

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (01:27.214)
Now this is the Unraveling, the diary of a midlife mess. And the diary part relates to the fact that my diary or my journal was such a big part of my own unraveling. So I always like to use this diary reference. So if I was to sneak a peek at the diary of teenage Tara, what or who would I have found?

Tara (01:54.402)
that's a skit. That is unraveling. Okay. so do you have like an age range or it doesn't really matter? Like, sort of like high schoolish? Yeah. Cause I've, I've, I've heard what you've said about some of your diary entries and they're like, I loved it. It was so funny. so I think like, I sucked as a teenager, I think like I really

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (02:03.182)
doesn't really matter, teenage you.

Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (02:12.494)
Hilarious.

Tara (02:23.01)
I feel like I had a very sheltered life. Like I was probably quite a young, like I was always a very immature teenager, if that made sense. And one thing that I always think about when I think about like being a teenager, cause I've kind of reconnected to with a couple of people that I went to school with like only in recent years. And like the number one thing that I think of was that I wasn't good at making friends.

And I wasn't a very good friend either, which I mean, the two probably go hand in hand, right? And so I find that so interesting now because I love people and meeting people and I find it so easy to talk to people. So I find that super interesting when I reflect on it.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (02:58.754)
Uh-huh.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (03:08.033)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (03:13.134)
Yeah, I mean, I find that interesting because knowing you as I do now, I would find it hard to think that, to see that you wouldn't be a good friend, you know, when you wouldn't be a good friend and two, that you wouldn't be good at making friends. would, that would be, yeah, that would seem a complete turnaround.

Tara (03:24.352)
Yeah, like I, I had, didn't have, like I didn't have confidence at all as a child, I don't think. Like in some things, like I danced most of my young life. So like that was always like a really safe space for me. That's where probably most of my real friendships were.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (03:34.471)
Mmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (03:48.981)
Yeah.

Tara (03:50.038)
But then like the school side of things, I always found really difficult. So my sister and I went to a primary school that was like a single stream school, which I think is like frigging unheard of now. So it was a very small, so like only one of each year group. yeah, so like one year four, one year five, yeah. So it was like a small school, I guess. And we went to a high school that no one from our primary school went to.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (03:59.6)
okay. What does that mean?

okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (04:17.956)
okay.

Tara (04:18.26)
So yeah, so I went from going, you know, like what seven pre-primary, so like seven years in one tiny little school with the same people, the same teachers taught each year, every year, you know what I mean? To going to a big massive high school where I knew no one.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (04:28.235)
Right.

Okay, yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (04:38.026)
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's so overwhelming for a child anyway. So, so sometimes I think, you know, it's often the case that those kids that are seen as prickly or, you know, they don't make friends easily. It's usually a protection thing. They usually kind of, they're probably overwhelmed. They're probably scared to death in all reality, you know, with that, with that, would you say that was true for you?

Tara (04:56.982)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, definitely. yeah, was so, I think I was, I didn't know what to do in high school. Like, I mean, high school is so different anyway. But also I'd never had to really make any friends. Like I went to school with the same kids, always like dancing. I danced at since I was a little kid. Like I never really had to make new friends. And then I was thrown into an environment with 300 other kids where

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (05:12.951)
Hmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (05:21.558)
Yeah.

Tara (05:31.147)
Like I didn't know anyone. I knew kids in year nine, cause I danced with them. And so I, like, I think for the first, maybe, maybe for the first half of year eight, cause that's when we started back when I went to high school. where is that going? Year seven now. the first half of year eight, I think I went and sat with the year nines that I knew because I didn't know how to make friends. I was like, it was a fear of like putting yourself out there, I guess.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (05:35.69)
Right, okay.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (05:43.959)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (05:50.795)
Rise.

Okay.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (05:59.158)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tara (06:01.378)
and not knowing how to fit in. Like I would do things that everyone else was doing to fit in, whereas now, not so much.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (06:04.041)
No.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (06:14.318)
Well, we do learn that. We do learn to kind of not be quite so.

Tara (06:16.934)
not so interested in fitting in. Do you know what? We do learn it and it's so interesting because like, as you know, like my oldest two children are twins and I've got one that's a massive people pleaser, the most beautiful child, loves everyone, everyone loves her, would do, you know, likes things because all my friends are doing it. And the other one is the antithesis of that.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (06:26.766)
Mmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (06:43.5)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (06:46.96)
Why?

Tara (06:47.042)
Sadie would rather be on her own than do something that she doesn't want to do. Which is fascinating to watch at 13 years old.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (06:54.054)
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it must be. It must be fascinating to see two of them go through at the same time. mean, you know, Lily, my daughter, she's very much the same. is, you know, she's the kind of like, no, I don't need to be involved if I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it, you know, and her lack of people pleasing whilst it makes me very proud of her. Sometimes it also makes my toes curl. So, yeah, so I can I can I can see what's what's that is there. But it's interesting because those teenagers, it's so

Tara (07:14.24)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (07:23.86)
important for us at that time, generally, to kind of have to be part of a tribe to fit in, you know, so it's, yeah, so it's interesting, kind of, as you say, like having finding those friendships hard, but you're kind of desperately at the same time, looking for your people and looking for your crew, and then now being able to kind of look back, what will happen for you and obviously now watching your girls as opposites is absolutely must be absolutely fascinated.

Tara (07:41.824)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tara (07:52.407)
Very. It's almost like one of them is my personality from back then, although patience makes friends okay. And then one of them is my personality now. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (07:53.431)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (07:59.255)
Yeah.

Yeah, love that. Wow. Love that for you. So if you so try to get a grasp of who you were. So obviously you were you were a dance kid. You were were sort of, you know, loved all your dance and still do as the sort of fitting in version of you who was on your bedroom walls.

Tara (08:24.162)
Ooh, that's a good question. So like I made in year 10, like this is like probably the most vivid. So in year 10, I made friends with a girl whose favorite band was Peljam. And so my favorite band was Peljam. But having said that, I did actually go to really love Peljam and they are still one of my favorite like bands. Yeah, so I like my bedroom walls were Eddie Vedder.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (08:38.934)
Okay.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (08:48.558)
Excellent. Right.

Tara (08:53.814)
There we go. Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (08:55.16)
Brilliant. So that was quite a good adoption. So you adopted that word because that made you fit in, but actually it turned out to be quite good for you. You see sometimes these things do.

Tara (09:01.986)
It's, it's, yeah, it's definitely started with me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (09:06.432)
Yeah yeah brilliant. So who going into your 20s what was the version of Tara in her 20s and how do you feel about her now?

Tara (09:12.706)
Mm.

Tara (09:24.61)
I hope my children are not her, just because they'll probably die in this day and age. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not safe to behave like that anymore. so I suppose like, so I suppose for context, just to sort of how I got there, is that okay? So I'm, pretty sure you are aware of this, but, I

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (09:28.763)
It's fine, they won't listen.

No.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (09:46.798)
Yeah, for sure.

Tara (09:53.411)
got married quite young and that marriage didn't last very long. So that I got married when I was 20 and then by the time I was 21, we were separated. So I feel like that like really shaped who Tara became in her early twenties because she kinda hadn't done stupid things that like, I never went to uni.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (09:59.118)
Okay.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (10:05.579)
Okay.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (10:16.533)
Okay.

Tara (10:23.458)
Like I hadn't done stupid things that other people were doing. Like I was building a house and getting married. Yeah. And so, like Tara from sort of like 21 to about...

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (10:29.664)
Right, sensible grown-up

Tara (10:40.822)
Let's go with 28.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (10:42.254)
You're trying not to say 30 but carry on.

Tara (10:43.895)
Peace.

was, let's go to 28. She probably like pushed every like party boundary that there was, but also became like very confident and extroverted. Yeah. So like I sort of, I was like that in my, in my personal life, but also I became like that in my work life as well. and I think

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (10:55.404)
Uh-huh.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (11:13.198)
Okay.

Tara (11:15.966)
So I, like I did my makeup artistry qualifications as you know, and never really did anything with them. And then I went to business college and did like some computer stuff and I got a job in a call center for a super fund. And I got that job by being really loud and really outspoken in the group interview.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (11:22.734)
Hmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (11:31.543)
Right.

Tara (11:41.727)
because one of the people, so it was like a big group interview where they made us play games and stuff and they watched us interact. It was like a bit of a Hunger Games thing, right? And the managers of the different teams would stand and watch us, right? And one like, yeah, when you think about it, it is creepy, right? No one died, but yeah, but it was like kind of like a pitting off each other. So like,

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (11:47.695)
yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (11:56.374)
Right, feels a bit creepy but yeah carry on.

Tara (12:07.402)
I think there were maybe six managers of the different, of the varying teams for the super fund. And all of them were like, not her except for one who is, who is still one of my very good friends today, but she was like, one I'm, and they were like, you can have her. Yeah, you can have her. So, and like, she told me that story, right? So I think it was people like confirming

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (12:18.407)
You

That's the one for me. Love that. Yeah.

Tara (12:37.76)
that behavior in me that made it more like that. Yeah, because I was like, somebody liked that. know, like I have, the first time I did it, I might've had to push myself out of the boundary to do it, but I was like, it got a result. So it kinda, and it continued to get a result. Like people liked that, especially in the job that we did, like we...

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (12:40.279)
Mmm.

amplified it more yeah yeah

Yeah

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (13:01.579)
Yeah.

Tara (13:05.964)
We're in a call center dealing with financial advisors who are special people. They're a special, I'm married to one so can say it right. They're a special breed of arrogant. So you had to be a strong, if you showed any weakness, they would eat you for breakfast on the telephone, right? So I think every time I put a financial advisor in their place, like that was applauded. So it just got more and more like that.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (13:12.206)
Absolutely. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (13:24.129)
Okay.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (13:32.512)
Yeah, so you're kind of getting that behavior affirmed in a sense. so when you so obviously that, yeah, well, yeah, here's a treat. There you go. Very good. You know, so did you when you look back on her now, I mean, it's interesting now that you see that, you know, that that didn't become such a part of you that you kind of go, well, that's just who I am. You saw that that kind of was that was behavior that was being almost encouraged and obviously rewarded. So when you look back on

Tara (13:36.578)
I'm Pavlov's dog.

Tara (13:57.729)
Yep. Yep.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (14:01.824)
on her now, if you look back on that version of her now, what do you feel about her?

Tara (14:08.012)
There's definitely, there's not so much in the work. There's a few little work things, but it's more the social aspect that I think, Ooh, that was probably a bit much. And how would I feel if my kids behaved like that? Right?

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (14:24.078)
Never ever tell them.

Tara (14:27.7)
Yeah, no, God no. So, you know, like there's definitely people that probably I didn't treat very well. There's definitely things that I did that I'm like, well, you're lucky to be alive. You know, that wasn't a smart decision. So there's things like that, but I don't really think, God, that was really not me. like, I think it was probably always in me and it just,

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (14:42.094)
Mmm.

Tara (14:57.75)
got nurtured to extreme, if that makes sense. Yeah, so it's not that I look back and think, yuck, like I did quite well in my career because I was that person. So, you know, like I'm not disappointed for that. I got a job in Melbourne where I met my husband because I was that person. So,

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (15:01.056)
Yes. Yes.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (15:15.412)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (15:24.686)
Yeah, yeah. So that kind of all worked out in that sense in that in the way that it was. So you didn't so this was more of a kind of like, so you weren't you didn't have this vision in a sense of this picture in your mind of what a successful woman looked like. This was more that this was just behavior that was being kind of affirmed. And obviously, resulted in this growth within your where you were where you were at. But then obviously, you ended up with your husband. So that's, you know, that's didn't turn out too bad.

Tara (15:29.556)
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Tara (15:39.948)
No.

Tara (15:54.029)
And I think, yeah, well, no, that didn't turn out too bad at all. But I also think like at the time, I quite liked that I was strong and that people said, don't cross Tara, like, cause she'll make you pay for it. like, don't do that. Like around the office, it'd be like, well, don't do that. Cause Tara will take your head off. Like, you know, like I was, I was like a force to be reckoned with. And I'm not saying that because like,

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (15:55.662)
you

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (16:04.023)
Yes.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (16:15.768)
Yeah.

Tara (16:22.09)
I was the best at my job or I was in charge or anything like that. People just knew that like I would let you know if you, if you did something that I didn't like. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (16:28.31)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which isn't actually a bad way to be because women generally aren't encouraged to be that version of themselves, you know. Do you think that version of yourself was always within you? I mean, I know that you had that issue where you weren't sort of fitting in or you were trying to fit in it when you were in like high school.

Tara (16:38.912)
No. Yeah. Yeah.

Tara (16:50.006)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (16:53.538)
Do you think that version of you is always there or was she just the version that you wanted to be at that point?

Tara (16:59.23)
I think she probably was always there because I think about dancing and stuff on stage, I was very confident. With my friends at dancing, I was probably not as far as I was in my 20s, but much more confident at saying what I liked and what I didn't like. So I think it was always there. But like you said, I think the praise and recognition for behaving that way.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (17:19.447)
Yeah.

Tara (17:29.318)
definitely, like probably amplified it well more like, cause I would say I'm confident now and like, I do things a bit differently to how other people do them, but not to the extreme where like, people are like, or don't upset Tara or do you know, like, yeah, not to that sort of extreme. I don't think I'm scary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (17:37.697)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (17:49.034)
Yeah, yeah, you're not so scary. You're not scary these days. You're just confident. No. Well, that's, you know, that's a requirement. So if we go into your thirties, now thirties can often be a time when everything, you know, can land at once. That'll be a business, baby's identity. How

Tara (17:58.218)
It's my children.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (18:15.032)
How did that period play out for you? mean, just to say that you are a mum of, you've got your twin girls and then you've got a boy and a girl, or girl and a boy in that order. you've got your boys the youngest. So in this, obviously, was this through your thirties that you had this kind of like business baby's identity, like juggle? Yeah.

Tara (18:24.086)
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Tara (18:35.584)
Yes, yes, yes. I have PCOS. when I was diagnosed with that in my very early 20s, my doctor said to me at that point that I would more than likely need intervention to fall pregnant, but it wasn't even frigging on the radar. didn't, yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (18:49.038)
Mmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (18:59.896)
Yeah.

Tara (19:01.16)
So when Sam and I got together and moved back to Perth from Melbourne, that was the year I turned 30. We got married that year and sort of said, maybe one baby would be okay. And so we kind of went straight back to the doctor from there because we knew that like nothing was likely to happen.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (19:18.83)
you

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (19:28.216)
Yeah.

Tara (19:28.93)
So my early thirties were like, yeah, like IVF and doctors and that sort of stuff, trying to get pregnant. So I had the twins, I was 33 when I had the twins. And then that, and I was working for a financial institution. I was working for the government employee super fund actually, when I had my twins.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (19:38.049)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (19:46.496)
Okay.

Tara (19:58.079)
And so I took maternity leave with them and I had nearly 18 months off with them. Yeah, which was like the best thing ever. And I was just like, this is what I'm meant to do with my life. Like I just loved, like I didn't love pregnancy, but I just loved being at home with the babies. Like, and not really.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (20:05.463)
Alright, okay.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (20:10.017)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (20:15.328)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (20:24.205)
Yeah.

Tara (20:26.112)
doing anything else other than like going to my mum's or going to the shops with my mum or like taking the babies to play with my friends who had babies. we just, yeah. But so we had one egg left in the freezer when I had the twins. So it was a bit like, that's boring story but it was a bit of a traumatic thing getting the twins. And then we had one egg left in the freezer.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (20:35.352)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (20:43.864)
Right?

Tara (20:51.7)
So we went at the end of my maternity leave, we went as a whole family. So with my mum and dad and my sister and her, he was her boyfriend then they're married now, but and the twins. So it was just the two kids. We all went to Italy and had a six week holiday in Italy, which was fantastic. We spent three weeks in the town that my dad comes from. So it was just, yeah, it was just beautiful. And then we came back from there and I pretty much went back to full-time work.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (21:01.666)
Uh-huh.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (21:09.206)
Right.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (21:14.475)
wow, okay. Beautiful. Yeah.

Tara (21:21.182)
at the job that I had before. It was a slightly different role, but it was the job that I had before. The goal was always for me to go back to work and then we were going to try the last egg because it was the last one. And I was like, I kind of, my husband was like, you know, I can't leave that there because that's our baby. Whereas

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (21:25.891)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (21:35.362)
He was there. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (21:46.742)
Yeah.

Tara (21:47.331)
I actually, I really wanted another baby because I'd felt like I'd been ripped off with the twins because I got two at once and I got two for one and because they were really small when they were born, they were in NICU. So I never had that first time mum experience where people come to the hospital and you're like, look at the baby. Like they came to see me and there were no babies. Like they were in the nursery. If we were lucky, we were allowed to wheel them up to the glass.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (21:53.516)
It's got two for one.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (22:01.07)
okay.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (22:07.126)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (22:11.406)
okay. Yeah.

Tara (22:14.242)
So there were lots of like little things that I just kind of felt like, you know, and the fact you've got two babies crying, you've got two babies, like I never had that like, oh, I'm just going to pick my baby up. It's like, oh, I'll just pick the other baby. Like, I know that's stupid things to think, but that's, that was kind of what, that was kind of how I felt. So I was like, I want another baby. Like I love, I just loved being at home with my babies. want another one. So anyway, went back to work.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (22:19.95)
you didn't get to experience.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (22:27.182)
No, for sure. It's a really interesting... yeah. Yeah.

Tara (22:43.5)
Did the IVF again and lo and behold, she worked. Cause we didn't really have a backup plan if she didn't work. We hadn't really decided if that would be it or she worked. She was a shocking pregnancy. Like shocking. I had no blood pressure to speak of most of the pregnancy. So I just felt like I was going to die the whole time. And then I got offered a redundancy just before I went on maternity leave. And I was like,

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (22:48.887)
Right.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (22:55.246)
Right.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (23:01.902)
okay, beautiful.

Tara (23:13.206)
Yes, thanks. So I'll take that and I'll worry about that after I've had this baby. Luckily, Luca was like a brilliant baby. So that was easy. She was like really easy apart from a bit of breastfeeding trauma at the beginning. And then when she was 10 months old, I thought I had a bladder infection and I went to the doctor. You've heard this story.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (23:14.392)
Thank you very much. We'll take that universe. Beautiful. Yeah.

Tara (23:41.389)
But I went to the doctor with my double pram with my twins in it and my baby strapped to me to this new GP who was doing his thing out from England where they have to come out like young men. Yeah, and I'm like, I've got a bladder infection. I just need some antibiotics. And he's like looked at me and gone, why have you got all these babies? And then.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (23:45.74)
huh.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (23:54.856)
Yeah, okay.

Tara (24:05.922)
He asked me, like, you know, ticking the questions off, like, what contraception do you take? And I was like, none. These are IVF. Yeah, these are IVF. And he was like, do you mind if I do a pregnancy test? And I was like, well, sure. I've got to pee on a stick anyway. So just, you know, double dip. And he's standing there chatting to me and he goes, And he's like, well, you don't have a bladder infection. And I was like, and he goes,

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (24:07.822)
Mmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (24:11.918)
I've got babies.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (24:22.474)
Yeah, fill your boots.

Tara (24:34.668)
But it does appear that you're pregnant.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (24:36.75)
You

Tara (24:42.298)
I'm not a boy!

Sorry, what? So yeah, 18 months later, yeah, we had Finn. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (24:47.278)
So yes.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (24:51.36)
Yeah, beautiful. So, Finn, the bladder infection is now nine. So, yeah, yeah. Wow. Okay. Gosh. Wow. Okay.

Tara (24:55.062)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He'll be 10 in April. Yeah. Yeah. So the early thirties were very much like babies, babies, like, you know, surviving babies. had four under four when he was born. So, yeah. So he was born. was 37. So yeah, it was very much surviving that. And then when he was one is when I started my business because, because I

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (25:03.662)
Mmm.

Yes. Wow. Gosh. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (25:17.975)
Yeah, yeah.

Tara (25:24.32)
wanted to be a mum, but we needed money. I needed to do something.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (25:25.942)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, yeah. And I guess, obviously the business we're in, like hair and makeup and all of those things that would always kind of allow that. I mean, this was, this was one of the reasons why I loved what I did, because I was able to kind of do mum things and have my business and build and grow my business and all those things. But obviously, for you then now, and you've got four kids in the mix.

Did you have any, at that point, any kind of professional ambitions or was this purely just like, I need to just get out of the house and do something for me?

Tara (26:02.56)
Yeah, it was, if I'm honest, like the two things that made me do it or were like, this has made the decision were A, Sam doesn't work on the weekends and I knew makeup would predominantly be weekends. So we didn't have to organize daycare. Cause at that time, both my parents were retired and they traveled regularly. So I never, cause Sam's family are all Victoria.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (26:18.146)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (26:29.335)
Right.

Tara (26:30.056)
I never had a person that I could say every Tuesday and Thursday, my mom has the kids or can pick up the kids or we never had that. And that's, not saying that as in, I never, like, I don't think it's their responsibility to raise my children, but I know a lot of people have that regular pick up option or which I never had. So Sam would be home on the weekends so I could work and we didn't have to worry about care for the children.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (26:36.674)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (26:41.524)
No, no, no. Yeah, that was just the reality.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (26:47.836)
Hmm.

Tara (26:57.504)
I would have the flexibility obviously to do all the school runs because he worked in the city and couldn't do that. And the other reason that I thought it would be good is because I really loved makeup. I loved doing makeup. It's why when I left school, I did some makeup qualifications because as I got older with my dancing, the best part for me was doing everyone's makeup for the dancing, right? So I thought...

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (27:16.482)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (27:23.651)
Yeah.

Tara (27:25.746)
If I have something that I really enjoy doing, I won't resent having to leave my kids so much and do that because I will enjoy what I'm doing. Because the finance... Sorry, you go.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (27:35.318)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting. Well, I'm just thinking it's interesting for me because obviously, knowing you as I do, you know, like, I know you through you being a makeup artist, and I know you through business. And I and as much as you did this, because obviously, was that opportunity to go in and some extra money and, you know, do and have, you know, some brain break and all the rest of it. I also know that there's

Tara (28:00.098)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (28:02.478)
that ambitious side of you was still there because you have continued to kind of grow your business. And it wasn't just a case of like, you weren't doing this as a hobby as much as you might've been at the beginning. You know, this didn't remain Tara's little side hustle. You know, there was, there was clearly an ambition there or, or what was it? What were you, when you started to see growth in that, in your work as a makeup artist, what was it, who was inspiring you at that point? Or was it something?

Tara (28:13.399)
Yeah.

No, no it didn't.

Tara (28:26.22)
Hmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (28:32.012)
because I don't recall seeing too many mums of fours that were out trying to build and grow this makeup artistry business in the way that you were.

Tara (28:40.928)
Yeah, I think like...

I think part of me wanted to prove to myself I could do it.

Like I think probably that is like the biggest thing. Like obviously I am, I am very driven by money. So like I find it a very large motivator and de motivator, like conversely like when like most people don't find it as deep, like if it's hard, like that's, I'm very de motivated by it.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (29:15.276)
Yes.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (29:19.127)
Yeah.

Tara (29:19.976)
I am very driven and I was saying that, look, I'm paying for all the dancing. look, we had a little weekend at Crown and I paid for that. And there was little things like that. So there was like, obviously that little bit of extra money that we had, but also I had done that. Like we were having that because I had done it, right? So that was motivating. And then because the people stuff,

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (29:38.443)
Yeah.

Interesting.

Tara (29:46.403)
like I networked my little bum off in the beginning and I met other people that were doing things and I was like, oh, I could do that though. Like, why couldn't I do that? So I'd say that's probably, does that answer the question? I think that's probably.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (29:48.76)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (30:05.462)
Yeah, I mean, think it's, mean, cause I'm, cause that's it. mean, I think, you know, I know you not just as a makeup artist and a business woman, but a great networker. mean, networking was kind of like, you know, that was almost like how so many people knew you and really how you grew your business as well, you know, and the people that you were mixing with, weren't necessarily right in at the start with all the makeup artists community, but you were definitely in with the business community and kind of growing your business.

in other ways, you know. So was there a moment when you had to choose between who you were building as a business woman and then who you were becoming as a mom? And then how did you navigate that?

Tara (30:52.002)
Um, so I would say that that choice probably only like came to a head last year.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (31:05.678)
lights. Okay.

Tara (31:06.306)
Yeah. So like, yeah. So I'm, so I had Finn when I was 37 started the business a year later. I'm 47 in March. So I would say it's taken 10 years to come that, like we were saying before, come that full circle of, and I think it's because like, well, you know, like I have my little tattoo. Can you see my, where is my tattoo? Yeah. So I have my little, can do both as my little mantra, tattooed on my wrist.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (31:21.57)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (31:29.324)
Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I remember when you got that done. And I remember that because that was a real kind of, I remember that being a thing for you, that kind of like, because you, there weren't, again, there weren't that many examples of people doing that, of doing both doing, you know, as much as you were doing to the degree that you were doing it.

Tara (31:35.743)
Tara (31:51.201)
Yeah, yeah, like, mean, yeah, I don't want to take my own horn, I don't, yeah, I don't feel like there were, I don't feel like I spoke to a lot of other people that had kids that were as close together as mine and as probably like, you know, youngish as mine that were doing what I was trying to do with my business.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (32:06.99)
Mmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (32:12.109)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (32:16.309)
Yeah, absolutely.

Tara (32:17.642)
Yeah, so I think like there was definitely people that I could speak to that were like, yeah, I had four kids, but like, you know, by the time I had the fourth one, the oldest one was old enough to drive them or do you know what I mean? And like, I just didn't feel there was anyone quite in my position. And, and I think I got that reinforced a lot because when I would say it to people, they'd be like, my God, you must be super woman. And like, to start off, why that's a bit like, yes, I am. And then

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (32:28.033)
Yeah, yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (32:33.408)
No.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (32:43.41)
you

Tara (32:47.51)
And then it kind of becomes, yeah, no. And then it kind of becomes a bit like, no, I'm not. And I think there was a big period of me saying to people, you know, I've definitely said this to you before of sometimes I'm a great mom and sometimes I'm an excellent business owner. I'm never both. So yes, I can do both, but not at the same time. And I think like, I just sort of,

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (32:48.047)
Yes you are!

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (33:13.506)
Yeah.

Tara (33:18.048)
was eye on the prize, just thinking about what I was trying to build and that it wasn't forever. It was short-term pain for long-term gain. So, you know, I was just pushing through for a lot of it. But yeah, I think last year we lost Sam's dad in January quite unexpectedly.

Sorry. When you say it out loud, I get upset. Like you think about when you say it up. Yeah, just, he, yeah, unexpectedly lost his dad. And then there was kind of like a flow on effect of shitty things that happened after that. So last year was a really tough year. It was like very tough for our...

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (33:47.4)
okay I'm sorry yeah yeah

Tara (34:14.166)
marriage. It was very tough for the kids. and Luka both started at new schools. Finn's school in particular has put a lot of extra pressure on us logistically and financially. And so I think there was just a lot of things in the pot. And Tara, who likes to be seen as capable, that's like my number one thing is like I know

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (34:42.508)
Hmm.

Tara (34:43.85)
me is like being seen as I can do everything or I can get like compartmentalize and get everything done. I was really struggling to get everything done. Like on my Mondays which are my day off, like my Mondays would be me like

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (34:59.406)
Hmm.

Tara (35:08.77)
just laying on the couch. You know, that weird out. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (35:11.17)
Yeah, yeah. But I, yeah, because I think there's that thing, it's that just because you can doesn't mean you should, you know, just because you can do all the things. And I guess it's that thing again, like you were saying before about having that affirming that you were this, you know, don't mess with Tara and having this other message of that, you're a superwoman and you can do it all. And yeah, you can, but you know, you're, you could, but should you be, you know, you're, we're.

And I think there's a messaging that's gone for women for many years in that kind of like, know, she can do it or she can have it all. know, yeah, yeah, we can, but not not that's not sustainable. You know, that's like really, really hard because obviously there is things happening in your own body. are things that happen in our lives that these things, we cannot sustain this. At some point we have to kind of hand that over.

Tara (36:03.552)
Yeah, yeah. So I think like, towards the end of last year, yeah, where I just started thinking a lot more about what I was doing and what was making me feel happy, like what I was dreading, like I was trying to take more notice of what, when I had to approach it, I was like, like in my body on what was like bringing me.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (36:21.646)
Hmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (36:29.678)
Mmm.

Tara (36:32.834)
motivation and joy. And yeah, and I was just like, yeah, I can do both. But I think I choose not to, do you know, like, yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (36:35.011)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (36:41.678)
Yeah, yeah. And I think that's so important. And, know, I've spoken on this podcast before about kind of like how we feel things in our body and how we don't listen enough to our body. You know, we kind of, try to sort of make sense of it in our head or kind of like, you know, this makes sense or that makes sense. And that's, that's all in your head. What does your body feel? You know, if you're

If your shoulders are up by your ear holes, then you know, your body is kind of giving you answers there. It's telling you, you you need to stop. And same thing with, you know, you get that sense of dread if you've got something coming up. Listen to that. That's probably telling you something, you know.

Tara (37:11.5)
Yeah.

Tara (37:21.056)
Yeah. Yeah, that's not a thing that like your, your life wants you to do. Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (37:27.078)
No, no, absolutely. Yeah. And I know that you have mentioned something that I just think would resonate actually with a lot of people. And it's the idea of this being, you've said this about the being the first generation where we're still raising little ones where our parents are starting to need us too. Can you talk about what that actually looks and feels like for you in your life?

Tara (37:54.517)
Yeah, I think, like, my dad has dementia. He was diagnosed with dementia five years ago. And it's obviously, it's a progressive disease, It's what it's, you can't get rid of it. Like, you can't make it better. My mum is a fit, healthy person. So.

he's home with her. like, look, for the most part, he's okay. But it's, I feel like for me, and my sister probably, it's a mental load, right? It's something because we have, as women, we talk about the mental load all the time, right? Because we constantly have everything turning over in our brains to make sure we haven't missed anything. And we've got all our updates and, know, and it's another one, another thing that we've chucked into that little Ferris wheel.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (38:44.269)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (38:48.974)
Hmm.

Tara (38:49.526)
that goes around that you're thinking about and you're like, you know, it's not only can I do more to help, but it's also I should be there spending time because one day he's not gonna know who I am or who my children are. And so yeah, to just have like last year, especially felt like it was children's

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (39:05.132)
Yeah.

Tara (39:19.41)
extra-curric- like school and extracurricular and work. And when we weren't doing that we were dealing with the fallout of you know like a death in the family and all the stuff going on with the flood in the store right. So it was just I think that was one of the things that made me stop was thinking about you know like there's not there's not a lot of time when they're little we always think about that right there's not a lot of time

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (39:32.844)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (39:45.358)
Mmm.

Tara (39:47.029)
Sometimes we don't act on it, but we always think, they're only little for you only have to flick through Instagram to see how many posts are about your kids being little for a little while, you we don't think about as our parents get older. Well, I mean, yeah, like Sam didn't think that he was going to wake up to a phone call one morning and say that his dad was gone. I'd just spoken to him a week before at Christmas, you know,

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (39:56.607)
Yeah, yeah, it's so true.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (40:09.646)
No.

Tara (40:16.47)
That's the thing. The time at that end is precious as well. And I think, yeah, look, there's obviously the thought of how can I help mum? How can we do more for mum? But there's also the, need to be spending time there. Sometimes it's just about going for a cup of tea. And like last year, I didn't even have a cup of tea in me.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (40:21.804)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (40:40.43)
Yeah, I mean, this is, and it's massive, isn't it? Because as you say, our lives are so busy anyway, you know, where we have, where we're working or building businesses. And, you know, for you, obviously, as well as being a make-up artist, you obviously got your store, you know, you've got the lip lab in Perth, which is incredibly busy, incredibly successful store, but that requires a lot of energy in itself. Just that on its own would require a lot of energy.

And then you've got four kids and then you've got the stuff going on with Sam's family. And then you've got the stuff going on with your mum and dad. And it's like, where do you put yourself in that when, when you're needed on every side?

Tara (41:26.228)
so I will say that is not something that I have like been particularly good at. I'm definitely, and I think this is my, I get this from my mom, think, because like we say, like I'm a bit of a martyr, but it's like that I think has a negative connotation, but like I grew up in a family. My dad had small business my whole life. He worked very long hours. He wasn't.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (41:54.094)
Mmm.

Tara (41:54.561)
really around a lot. My mum did everything for us. And that's the role model I have as mum. yeah, is like the person who did everything for you, drove you everywhere, took you everywhere, did all the things for dancing, made all the dinners for all the other dancing kids. Like that was my mum, like, and still is really, but like that's the role model of a mum.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (42:06.167)
Okay.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (42:18.507)
Right okay.

Tara (42:23.752)
which is probably why that was important to me when they were little kids that I was home because that's the example that was set for me. But I would say that my mum is notoriously bad at factoring herself and still is like factoring herself into anything. And it would take her you know becoming quite ill before she would stop and be like I can't do anything for you today.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (42:28.878)
Hmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (42:41.836)
Yeah, yeah.

Tara (42:52.468)
I think this year though, like, you know, Sam and I sort of sat down and said, we can't have another year like we had last year. And these are the things that we need to factor in. Like he's gone on a bit of a health journey himself, which has been fantastic. Cause I don't think he's ever really prioritized that for him either. and I, you know, like, so I've committed, we've, we've made our, you know, we've committed to our nutrition a little bit more. We've heavily, heavily cut down on what we drink.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (43:22.563)
Yeah.

Tara (43:22.78)
because that was a big thing, like that was a big thing for us. Like it was the drinking, has been like our whole relationship. Not that like, you know, I feel like we have a problem, but like that was our, that was our escapism, right? and that's, also that was our generation. Like they don't drink anymore, apparently Sharon, did you hear that? Like they're not drinking. Your kids drink?

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (43:27.342)
you

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (43:34.734)
No, but yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (43:42.766)
No, no, I didn't hear that. Yeah, Louis, yeah, Louis does. Lily, not so much, but Louis, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. But they'll do red wine because they're all sophisticated. I don't remember being sophisticated in my 20s, but anyway.

Tara (43:48.267)
Yes.

Okay. Yeah, that's apparently it's a thing that alcohol is going out of business because they're not drinking enough. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Goon bag. so yeah, so, like we've definitely prioritized that and I've committed to one Pilates a week and I've like paid for a membership that's one a week because if there's anything that annoys me more than not being able to take time out for myself, it's paying for things that I don't use.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (44:04.066)
Yeah.

Tara (44:20.354)
It's like throwing money against the So I thought, no, because if I do that, I can pick the time that I go and I can say, sorry guys, that's what I'm doing at that point. And so if you have something else on, you will have to make other arrangements. So that.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (44:20.492)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (44:35.328)
Yeah, I love that. I love that for you because that wasn't necessarily modeled to you, but now you can model this to your girls because I think that's the thing when you have a strong parent or a strong mother, you either become dependent or you become like them. So you've got to think that you have this awareness about your own mum that she is this martyr, she is this kind of do everything and she'll be dead or her deathbed before she gives in.

Tara (44:41.196)
Yeah. That's for me. Yeah.

Tara (44:50.516)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (45:04.66)
you know yourself that that has an impact, that has an impact on your physical health, your mental health, all of these things. And again, it's that kind of what are you then modeling to your own girls about what hard work or what parenting looks like, I guess.

Tara (45:18.656)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (45:20.896)
Yeah. So when you look back across all of it, you know, you look back across like the businesses and the babies and all of the family stuff and the teenage Tara, can you see a thread that has run through all versions of you?

Tara (45:48.45)
think the thread would be...

like my passion for family, I think. If I look at the thread, like, as I mentioned, my dad's like Italian. We come from like a very large Italian family. So because it is so big, not necessarily a very tight knit family in this day and age. But when I was growing up, like when we were kids, every Sunday night we went to Nonna's house for dinner.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (45:56.814)
Mmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (46:14.285)
Yep.

Tara (46:21.922)
And we probably did that until I was maybe 15 or 16. So all my patterning, all my impressionable years, that was, that's what you did on a Sunday night. Um, and Christmas was always at Norner's and everyone would come and people might only come through for like 20 minutes on their way to somewhere else. But Christmas at Norner's house and Russell street and Morley, her house isn't there anymore. They've knocked it down and built units.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (46:28.235)
Okay.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (46:36.012)
Yeah.

Tara (46:51.61)
was like a like we were out in the road like yeah yeah so it was like it was kind of ingrained to me this and and yeah mum's english but like her family were a bit more less a bit more hands off so you know we were i identify as being italian i think i have more of my italian family's characteristics like with the loud and you know

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (46:55.628)
Right, okay, wow.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (47:09.868)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (47:18.638)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (47:20.256)
and the hands as you can see have been going the whole world class. So I identify as being Italian. I feel like we raise our, Sam's fully into it. Like Sam loves Source Day, like, you know, all the things. I think we've taken a lot of the traditions that we have because we are Italian. So like, you know, I was raised as Catholic, my kids are being raised as Catholic. Like our feast, like Easter and Christmas are big things for us.

And not necessarily because they get chocolate and presents, you know? It's like a big family day with lots of food and all those things. Like when we went to Italy, like Sam and I say, it's so ridiculous. Like when we go there, we feel like we're at home. And we go there and our Italian family can't do enough for you. Like they're so happy to see you. So I would say, even though there was probably a little portion in my early twenties where like

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (47:51.128)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (48:02.403)
Yeah.

Tara (48:17.388)
things weren't right with me and my family. It was such a small portion of my life and I found my way back from the silly things that I'd done if there's a better way, right? And that is like the constant thread. And it's like the thread of what I'm trying to impart into my kids as well is like, this is, you know,

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (48:27.074)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (48:32.032)
Mm-hmm.

Tara (48:45.088)
This is where you'll get true joy in your life. Like you can achieve lots of things and it's all nice to have success, but at the end of the day, your family doesn't really care how many figures your business is.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (48:49.206)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (49:01.228)
No, this is so true. And I would say this is, I would have said that was a thread for you as well, because I think since I've known you, your family has been such a big part of your story. know, there isn't kind of like, you wouldn't ever meet you and kind of go, think she's got kids, I'm not sure. You know, I mean, we know. hear the stories, they're hilarious. You know, we hear the stories about you and your kids and your family, and it's such.

it's such a big part of your heart as well. It's just a big part of your expression. you know, so I would absolutely agree with that, that thread that's run through. And that's just in the time that I've known you that, you know, that's such a, that's such a big thing for you. Um, I mean, we do call this like the unraveling and I know that, you know, we've kind of touched a little bit on what the unraveling has been in the last, you know, the last 20, 25. So, but what does

And what does unraveling mean to you? And is it a loss or has it become something else? Or is it becoming something else?

Tara (50:03.102)
That's a good question. That's a great question. Yeah, I don't think it's a loss because like you said, there's a natural progression with life, right? We don't do the same thing in our 80s that we were doing in our 20s. Although I think my husband wants to go to Tomorrowland for his 50th, so maybe we will be, I don't know.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (50:20.919)
Hmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (50:29.208)
Do it.

Tara (50:32.674)
So yeah, I definitely don't think it's a loss. I think it's more like an acceptance, if that makes sense. Like of...

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (50:42.84)
Yeah.

Tara (50:46.324)
When you're, as much as I don't think I do things to impress other people, like, there is always a small part of you that does stuff because somebody's watching, right? And like, I heard, I was listening to a podcast yesterday and the person said, and again, it's probably one that you've heard, but it really hit yesterday, was,

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (51:01.454)
Hmm.

Tara (51:11.69)
When I set my goals, look at the, I set the goal and I look at it and I say, would this still be a goal for me if nobody was clapping? And I was like, Ooh, that's my time of life. Like that's where I'm at because I actually don't care if anybody's clapping anymore. And, and like, whilst none of the things that I would say I've done over the last decade have been predominantly about what other people thought.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (51:19.886)
Mmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (51:25.122)
Yeah. Yes.

Yeah.

Tara (51:40.831)
It definitely motivates you when people are like, wow, look, you've just bought that business. my God. Look, my God. Look at the store that you've just, you know, like it definitely makes you. Yeah. I'm going to keep going. Cause I'm doing a good job here. Like people are impressed by this. so whilst it might not be the decision maker, it definitely hits home. Right. And I think just hearing that, like, yeah, the goals.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (51:45.09)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (51:49.418)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (51:53.806)
Mmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (51:57.6)
Yeah, absolutely.

Tara (52:08.706)
I'm not interested if anyone's clapping. I'm interested if when I come home at the end of the day, I feel like...

I've had a bit of happiness in my life. Because there were plenty of days last year where at the end of the day, there was definitely not any happiness at the end of it. I couldn't think of anything that had made me feel happy during the day.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (52:21.218)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (52:33.303)
Yeah.

I think it goes back again to that whole kind of like that thing in your body, isn't it? And it's like, you know, people can't clap for what they can't feel in your body. You know, if you, the whole thing, the whole thing is, know, someone's clapping for you. They might be clapping for you, but they don't know that your stomach's in a big knot at the end of the day, you know? And it's that thing. If you're doing something because nobody's clapping, that's because to you, it feels light and it feels good. And it's kind of, and I think we start to tune into that a little bit more as we get a bit older, but that does.

Tara (52:34.594)
which is not.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (53:03.862)
of course require some loss and it definitely requires some acceptance over things. it's, but it's as we start to kind of release things and accept things and all of those things that we start to feel the difference in our body as to what feels good and what doesn't feel so good. So yeah, yeah. No, that's yeah.

Tara (53:17.153)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think like, I was just gonna say one of the things like, that one of the quotes that I, you know, like, you know, I love my sex in the city. And one of the quotes from the movie, like when Samantha comes back from staying in LA and she's like, you've just likened your relationship to cancer. And she was like, oh, are you happy every day? And Charlotte said,

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (53:33.035)
Uh-huh.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (53:41.452)
Yep.

Tara (53:49.867)
Not all day, every day, but every day. Like every day, something should make you happy. It might not carry on for the whole 24 hours, but like every day, not all day, every day, but every day. Like otherwise, why are we here? What's the purpose in our life?

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (53:53.165)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (53:57.933)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (54:05.826)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (54:09.333)
Yeah, it's so true.

Yeah. And I guess sometimes we just have to have those, you know, if you're not aware, or if you're not taking time every day to find those small moments, then you know, you are kind of, it's, I think it's that whole gratitude piece in a sense, isn't it? That whole kind of finding those moments for gratitude in your day. And if every day, or you're starting to feel numb due to the lack of joy or wherever it is in your day, then I think you have to sort of stop and

Tara (54:38.73)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (54:44.182)
and look at what that is and possibly remove it. Yeah, make a change. Yeah, absolutely. So, because obviously there's been so much in all of this. If you were to go back to like teenage Tara, what would you go back and tell her now?

Tara (54:46.018)
and make a change.

Tara (55:09.602)
Well, that's a good question. And you know what? I did actually think about this the other day. I don't know why, but maybe I was thinking about my kids, because I try and look for the things in their lives that I feel like I didn't get right to try and coach them in a different direction. And I think the thing that I would like try and maybe say to her or coach her in is,

try to learn to be a good friend and you will make friends. Like without trying, do you know what I mean? Like I feel like I spent so much of my like early teens either trying to fit in and you know just like what everyone else is liking or moving from one friend to the other because

that person was hanging around with someone more interesting. like I ditched that one and went, do you Yeah, or like that girl's friends with that boy that I like. So I'm gonna go be friends with her now. Do you know what I mean? Like I didn't, like I said, I think I was like emotionally immature from like a lot of my teenage years. But, like I lived quite a sheltered, naive life, which is lucky.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (56:11.094)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (56:17.814)
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tara (56:32.726)
for me, I guess, like there wasn't any hardship in my life, but maybe I needed a bit of hardship. But yeah, I think those friendship choices were poor choices and I didn't know how to be a good friend. So it was hard to make them.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (56:34.188)
Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (56:50.7)
Yeah, I think there's something key what you said there, that's the start when you said, know, about coaching your girls through this. And I think the coaching aspect is really important because if we tell them, know, so coaches, coaches aren't supposed to, and you know, good ones wouldn't ever give advice as such, you know, because, because that's just based on your opinion and your experience and all these things. But when you coach them, you're encouraging to ask better questions of themselves. So I think that's that's a key thing. Because

Tara (57:01.515)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (57:20.288)
you know, we have all sorts of opinions about our kids friends and who we, what we think and actually all sorts of opinions and expectations, whether we like it or not of what, who our kids are and who they become and what they do. But ultimately it's kind of their journey. And if we protect them from all these lessons, then what, you know, does, does that help or hinder them long-term? You know, and it's a, I think that's one of the toughest things as a parent to know when we kind of like stand back and kind of go.

Tara (57:43.008)
Yep. Yep.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (57:50.252)
This is your journey. can, you can learn from this, you know, because we don't want them to see them go through stuff.

Tara (57:51.66)
Yeah.

No, but it's hard, isn't it? Especially girls and like the twins are in year nine this year and I feel like year nine is a particularly icky year, particularly icky group. And like, you know, they just have so many more shit things to deal with than I felt like I had to deal with. My life was so much simpler. I didn't think so at the time, but yeah, like it's it's harder.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (58:05.644)
Yes. Yes.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (58:13.646)
Mm.

Yeah. No, no, I agree. I agree. There's so much outside influence and so much, you know, I mean, like when you, when we were dealing with stuff at school, we were dealing with stuff from other girls, the people in our vicinity, the people in our community. That was it. It was that, it was tiny really. But when you kind of think of the influence that girls and the, the, you know, the messaging and all the rest of it that is coming through from so many different, you know, ways and forms and all the rest of our kids today, so much harder.

Tara (58:31.584)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (58:46.676)
So much tougher. Yeah, I wouldn't think for that. So for the woman that is listening today, who is right in the thick of it, she might be building something or she's raising kids or she's watching her parents age or even losing herself a little bit. What would you want her to hear?

Tara (58:47.04)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tara (59:10.85)
Hmm.

Tara (59:14.754)
I think, like just remembering that everything in life is a stage. you know, the age old adage of this too shall pass. It really does. And like a lot quicker than you think it will. Like my favorite is when like I get clients that have little babies and they're like.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (59:40.576)
Yes.

Tara (59:43.075)
They're like, oh, they don't sleep and this or they're, you know, like schools. Like, yeah. And I'm like, yeah, I know, but little children, little problems, big children, big problems. Like, and they just, you know, it was just such an enjoyable part of my life. Like just trying to remind people to just really don't wish it away. So yeah, so I think like not just focusing that things do pass.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (59:54.444)
Yeah.

Tara (01:00:09.526)
But also like a big thing for me has been to remind myself that I always have a choice. Like, like I can always choose, like I live in Australia. We might feel like we don't have choices, but we have so many choices available to us.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (01:00:19.022)
Hmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (01:00:32.76)
we do.

Tara (01:00:33.694)
Even like with a business that you feel like, my God, you know, what have I got myself into? Like you, or you have choices, right? They might not be the most attractive of choices on one hand, but you have the choice to go down one path or the other. and knowing that you do have that control, you have to choose the hard, which hard thing you want.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (01:00:39.79)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (01:00:56.63)
Yeah, pick your heart.

Tara (01:00:58.358)
Pick your heart, right? So yeah, I think that is an important focus for me is always like, this feels shit and I'm not enjoying that and like, but I let me know what I have to choose. yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (01:01:13.644)
Yeah, yeah good message. So what do you think that life has been trying to teach you up to this point?

you

Tara (01:01:26.198)
You

That's really funny. A lot of things, Sharon.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (01:01:33.919)
of things.

Tara (01:01:36.322)
thing.

Tara (01:01:39.927)
think life has been trying to teach me that I'm far more capable than like 13 year old Tara ever thought she was. But that just because I am capable doesn't mean that those are the things that I need to choose. But I also think that like all the things that have happened to me in my life have made me the human that I am.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (01:01:48.588)
Yeah.

Tara (01:02:09.29)
And I actually don't think I'm that bad a human. I'm sure there's people out there that would disagree, but I actually think, I think I'm a pretty good human, as in, you like that I'm not a nasty, like I'm not always good at being kind, but I do try. And I think that my most important job in this world is to raise good humans. There's nothing that I will do that's more important than that.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (01:02:13.952)
I don't think there'd be many.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (01:02:38.71)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tara (01:02:40.306)
So that's what I think life has taught me so that I can teach them.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (01:02:49.166)
Yeah. And you are a bloody good human. One of the best. Oh, Tara, it's been such a joy. I just, I mean, look, your life is so, has been literally all over the place, you know, particularly in the last years or particularly in the time that I've known you, really has. And I've seen so many versions of you just in the last few years, you know, and it is, you know, God, I've seen this so many times before. We never...

Tara (01:02:52.332)
Thanks. Thanks, Shazam.

Tara (01:02:57.356)
Have my mark.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (01:03:17.218)
while we're going through shitty times, we're never sitting there kind of going, I am so grateful for this shitty time right now. never, you know, it's only, it's only when that has passed and that this too shall pass is such an important message because it will, it absolutely will. And there'll be something so valuable that will have come from it. And, know, whether we deem that at the end and kind of go, well, that's how I earned my wisdom. was harder. you know, wisdom, we, you know, we were talking before, we were saying, you know, you don't get wisdom from listen to a podcast. You don't get wisdom from reading a book.

you get wisdom because it's lived experience. So, you know, and I think you're going to be one very wise woman, well, you are a very wise woman. But this was an absolute joy for me to speak to you. So thank you for your time.

Tara (01:03:58.69)
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's been a lot. I've had a lot of discussions there that I haven't had for a while. So thanks for my therapy session, Shaza.