Perimenopause - When the veil gets ripped away with Janelle Adams

What happens when the woman who built everything, the business, the reputation, the carefully constructed independence starts to feel the veil being ripped away?

This week's guest is Janelle, founder of Dark Cherry and one of Perth's most celebrated wedding cake artists. But this isn't really a story about cake. It's a story about a girl who was adopted, raised by the best mama ever, spent her teenage years in a goth phase she has zero regrets about, and moved to London on a whim (technically a surprise 50th birthday party) — staying for twelve years because she fell in love with the light, the history, and the particular freedom of having no safety net.

Now she's back in Australia, deep in the perimenopause trenches, and doing the kind of soul-reckoning that nobody puts on the brochure. She's named her inner imposter Tiffany. She's questioning whether hyper-independence has been her superpower or her shield. And she's dreaming of writing a cookbook with her mum.

We talk about the creativity that lives inside overwhelm, the tears that arrive uninvited, the moment you stop making Peppa Pig cakes and start making art — and what it means to finally, at this particular age, be coming home to yourself.

This one's for every woman who thought she had it handled.

https://www.darkcherry.com.au/

https://www.instagram.com/thisdarkcherry/ resources

Josh Fraser Young - Psychologist - https://www.instagram.com/joshfraseryoung/
Speech Prof - Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/speechprof/
Dadhugs4yoursoul - Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/dadhugs4yoursoul/
Will Hitchens - Australian Mental Health Advocate - https://www.instagram.com/willhitchens/

The Glow Deeper Retreat — Swan Valley, Perth

One day. 15 women... And your make up bag!

The Glow Deeper Retreat is a one-day women's retreat at Raw Space in the Swan Valley, built around a Confidence Reset Makeup Masterclass — because when you finally unlock the mystery of what's already in your drawer, something shifts. You stop being so mean to the woman in the mirror. You remember what it feels like to take up space.

Whether you're 30 and your makeup bag is a complete mystery, or you're in midlife and barely recognise the face looking back — this day is for you. We'll work through what you already own, make it actually make sense, and send you home with more than a better routine. You'll leave with that feeling — you know the one — where you look good, you feel good, and that energy ripples into everything.

15 spots. One day. Early bird tickets available now.

👉 https://events.humanitix.com/the-glow-deeper-retreat

 Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Unravelling: The Diary of a Midlife Mess.

If something resonated with you today, I’d love to hear your thoughts,  come join the conversation on Facebook and Instagram @theglowupguide_au or visit sharonwilkesburt.com
for more resources and support.

Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review if you’re enjoying the journey so far!

Transcript

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (01:53.948)
Good morning, Janelle. Welcome to Unraveling, the Diary of a Midlife Mess. So chuffed to have you here. You and I often kind of have lots of giggles and things together, which is, it is giggles. One of the first times I met you, I was doing your hair for your wedding, and I think we started at like four o'clock in the morning or something ungodly. And I think that was, I say giggle, I think it was more delirium at that point.

Janelle Adams (02:20.536)
Yes, definitely hysteria, yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (02:25.298)
Anyway, welcome to the podcast. So lovely to have you here. So it's obviously this is called Unraveling, The Diary of a Midlife Mess and this relates to my own unraveling that came around kind of perimenopause-ish time and the diary being my journal, which was the holding space for all of my nuttiness and drama and sadness and joy and all the other things. So this is kind of like the premise behind the...

Janelle Adams (02:37.421)
I'm about the way to this. I'm going the we're going to be this. So, to we're going to be this. So, going to about way to to this. So, going to we're this. So, be about the this. So, So,

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (02:53.458)
the concept behind the podcast. So if I were to go back and find your teenage diary, who or what would I have found in there?

Janelle Adams (03:04.11)
self-absorbed little angsty mess writing about gothic boys that she was in love with at the time. A whole load of dribble. Absolute emotional rubbish. I'm just...

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (03:23.57)
I love this. And I think you've said before that you were a goth, which I just find so funny, you know, sort of meeting you today with your, you've got these beautiful cakes and you do all this beautiful, pretty work. And then obviously you kind of go, yeah, it's a goth. So tell me about your goth years. How deep did we go? I mean, are we talking, was it a phase? Were you fully committed to the whole aesthetic? I mean, what was the, what was the thing? What was the goth thing?

Janelle Adams (03:33.326)
no, I think I was more of what they called a baby goth. I didn't do the full makeup. There were elements, the black eyes, the coloured hair. I had

all sorts, every shade of red that you could imagine in my hair, hair cools, everything. But I liked, I liked the sort of medieval sort of side of things rather than heavy, dark, deathy sort of stuff. Pretty goth, pretty baby goth, yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (04:19.12)
not the dark goth, pretty goth. pretty goth. Yeah, pretty baby goth. Let's do that. I like that. So who were you, who were you aspiring to be or who were you trying to be? I mean, was there, was there, was there anything in your diary that you would, you'd be absolutely, you'd die if anybody saw today?

Janelle Adams (04:44.969)
There was a decent obsession with David Bowie in there from about age 13. It's not, I mean he was lovely.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (04:51.09)
That's not particularly goth. That's pretty good. Obsessions go, that's not a bad one.

Janelle Adams (05:02.446)
and it's purely because we never actually met that he and I didn't end up together. 100 % convinced. I'm only 5'5 but you

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (05:09.368)
it's, it's the only reason. It can be the only reason for sure. A man who whatever, whatever, whatever her name is, it's cause he hadn't met you. Okay. Shouldn't have been a problem.

So who were your early influences? Like who were the women who shaped you?

Janelle Adams (05:39.372)
that's my mama, my lovely mama. Yeah, she's amazing. And I mean, in terms of like starting off the cake business, I mean, there's a photo on my website when I was just a tiny, tiny little girl. I'm stood on a chair at the counter with a big mixing bowl and these big, heavy electric hand beaters.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (05:41.839)
Yeah?

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (06:07.505)
Yeah.

Janelle Adams (06:07.922)
Someone's obviously said smile at the camera and I'm turning around and it's like what? I'm working here!

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (06:15.762)
Love.

Janelle Adams (06:17.644)
So yeah, lots of memories of my grandma and my mum from a very, very early age getting me involved with the baking, licking the bowl, licking the beaters, watching what happens, all the magic that goes into it. Very big influence.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (06:37.906)
Yeah. Yeah, that's lovely. And I think because there's something so, um, connective, isn't there with that kind of, with those kinds of early memories with cooking and it, cause it's not just a kind of, made a cake. There's so much more that goes into that. And when you think, you know, of that memory of kind of holding those beaters and that's such a, that's so vivid in that sense, you know, there's like, it's not just a quick, it's not a selfie or a quick snap or it's a, you know, there's so much, if you think of that photo, there'd be so much within that.

Janelle Adams (07:02.414)
Yeah, yeah, there's a huge amount happening in that photo. mean, there's a pretty china teacup, which I've obviously used as my measuring cup, as well as my spoon rest. And it's a cup that was from the set that my mum and my grandma would use for their cups of tea and things like that. yeah, there's just lots of lovely memories. I can even think.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (07:19.929)
Yeah

Janelle Adams (07:31.374)
of times on my grandparents' farm when we were in the kitchen making lamingtons, stuff like that. Just the light coming in through the kitchen window, it's like it's a whole. It's not just a memory, like a snapshot. It's like you're there, you're immersed. It's like one of those cool memories.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (07:38.64)
Uh-huh.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (07:50.146)
Yeah, that's, that's lovely. And even as you talk about it, does feel like it does feel very immersive, you know, the whole kind of experience. This is just such a, this is such a lovely backdrop to obviously your, you know, for you, what you became. But when we, when we sort of go through that journey, so, so let's go to your twenties then. So what did, what did success look like to you in your twenties?

Janelle Adams (08:16.614)
Oh, 20s. was a fun time. That was a very fun time. 20s and 30s, I was in London.

And that was just the best. Loved London. think a bit of my heart just sort of broke off and stayed in London. I love it that much. yeah, a lot of party days, 20s and 30s. Absolutely.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (08:32.571)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (08:46.162)
Yeah, yeah, as they, in fact, should be, I believe. But when you were in London, was there anything, what were you chasing? Was there a dream? Did it have a clear shape or was it, was you just running towards something that felt bigger or what was the, what was the, what was the London draw? What took you there?

Janelle Adams (08:57.85)
No.

What took me there? went for a partner at the time. His dad was turning 50, I believe, and he was having a surprise party. And part of the surprise was my partner at the time turning up and saying, hey, dad, look, I'm here. So that's what we went over for. I only meant to stay for like six months initially, and then 12 years later, still in London.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (09:31.218)
I think you might have overstayed your welcome there, Janelle. That's what you call an overstaying party guest.

Janelle Adams (09:33.582)
Never been good at picking up on social cues.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (09:45.554)
Okay, so that was what took you there and then what kept you there?

Janelle Adams (09:52.334)
I made some lovely friends there and I just, I love the feel of London. It oozes history, the architecture is gorgeous, the light is amazing. I hadn't really understood, like painters like Monet, until I got to the UK and saw the light that they were seeing. I was like, oh, that's why you paint like that, right? Got it, got it.

It's just so different to the light here. It's very harsh and bright, the light here. But it's just sort of, it's diffused over there and it's all soft and lovely and beautiful and I love the weather there. And I liked being anonymous and disconnected from, I didn't want to be disconnected from my family. That sounds cold. But I enjoyed being on my own and having to...

having no safety net really, just having to work everything out for myself.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (10:55.738)
Yeah, yeah, that's so, that's so interesting. The, mean, I don't, I don't think I've spoken to too many people who've said, I love the weather in London or England. I mean, having, having come from the UK, I think, I think there'd be a kind of big volley of people going, what, what are you saying?

Janelle Adams (11:18.874)
Something wrong with that girl.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (11:20.242)
But having said that on really stinky hot days like today, I'm all over it. I would be all over the cooler weather and the cooler days. And it's interesting what you say about the light as well. And it's interesting because that's come up twice now in terms of like, you you talk about your, photograph where the lights come in the window and then you talk about the light in London and, you know, painters and stuff. is this, I mean, this seems to be quite like,

Janelle Adams (11:27.616)
Yes.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (11:46.266)
an artistic side to you that kind of takes in all of these factors as you as you kind of move through? it would you was that is that true for you? you think?

Janelle Adams (11:55.104)
Yes, yeah, and it can be overwhelming at times when it's just too much information coming in and needing to be processed. yeah, I love natural light. Wherever you can see it, if it's like, if you've got dust motes dancing through the light, I love that.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (12:16.56)
Yeah.

Janelle Adams (12:18.146)
like stained glass windows, the way they treat light, anything like that. Very inspiring and beautiful. I love it.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (12:23.12)
Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, obviously, I think this reflects in your work as well, because obviously you are very creative and we will come on to kind of, know, what it is that you do. But I think that kind of, you know, you can almost see that that that artist within your work, you know, with with cakes or things. So, yeah, you do the most stunning, beautiful work. So again, going back to your 20s again, so were you I mean, what were you doing in terms of your career at this point? Were you

were you doing something on the lines of what you were doing now or was it a later life pivot?

Janelle Adams (12:55.521)
No, no. I was working, started working for a property company over there and then moved into law.

I was working for law firms and then in one of the law firms we had an in-house baking competition. Everybody liked what I made and then they started asking me to make stuff and then they started paying me to make stuff. This is a lot more fun. Yeah and then coming back to Australia started up Dark Cherry.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (13:29.326)
Yeah.

Janelle Adams (13:39.698)
and it's just gone from strength to strength. I love it. It's a wonderful creative outlet. Get to make people happy with sugar and cake. It's a loved up industry, the wedding industry. I really enjoy every element of it.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (13:46.971)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (13:52.593)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's, I mean, I remember actually going into your kitchen the one time and it just has that beautiful. Fug that's all I can describe it as that kind of like cakey, just that, and again, it's that whole immersive kind of like you've just walked into cake land, but the smell and everything gets absolutely just divine. mean, you know, I know they try to make candles like it, but it's just not the same. They're not,

Janelle Adams (14:05.998)
Sugar. Yeah.

Janelle Adams (14:20.11)
Yeah, when I have clients pick up cakes, that's one of the first things they always say is like, your house smells so good. It's like chocolate and sugar. Okay.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (14:25.486)
So.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (14:31.986)
Oh, it does smell so good, honestly. Yeah, it's it is so good. Absolutely. So coming back to Australia after 12 years, was that I mean, I'm going to say is that like it was that homecoming was that I mean, I'm to say a reinvention because obviously you've gone from having this kind of more kind of corporate career, I guess, into I mean, did you decide straight away that that you were going to do Dark Cherry at that point?

Janelle Adams (14:53.134)
I, it wasn't a firm plan. No, but it just sort of started as a little thing and then it just sort of built momentum and it's like, well, actually this is, this is a proper company now. I'm doing a very grown up sort of thing.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (15:20.604)
Yeah. And what was the drive at that point? mean, was it just, the still, obviously the love of it was still there because it's always there at the start. But carrying that on, as you say, building that momentum when it becomes something that's kind of almost bigger than Ben Her, you know, and there's that kind of, you know, am I still, I, were you still loving it like into those early days or did you have to quickly flip, what that was becoming?

Janelle Adams (15:33.957)
Yeah.

Janelle Adams (15:43.674)
It was a flip.

I don't ever want to make a pepper pig cake ever again. Why? Why?

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (15:51.602)
I'm really thinking Peppa Pig kind of isn't your style to be honest. I'm not feeling the light with that one.

Janelle Adams (16:08.23)
But you know, when you're starting, you sort of say yes to everything. And then as the years went on, I sort of realised I'm good enough now that I can pick and choose what I want to work on and choose to work on things that thrill me and excite me. And I don't have to say yes to everything anymore.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (16:34.257)
Yeah.

Janelle Adams (16:35.026)
and that's a really nice spot to be in because I can look at my calendar now and go I'm excited about that one, I'm excited about that, I'm excited about that so that that that is winning to me. That's success.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (16:44.431)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (16:50.244)
Yeah, yeah, that's wonderful because you don't, as I say, when you're starting out, you don't ever think you'll get to that point. And I guess because obviously for you, it was something that was like organic in the sense of like, you know, you didn't have this big plan as you left school that you were going to be this, you know, this baker and cake maker. So I guess because it was kind of organic, you have to kind of go through the, you know, cakes for friends.

Janelle Adams (16:59.022)
Hmm.

Janelle Adams (17:07.726)
I haven't done a hungry caterpillar. I don't think I would mind a hungry caterpillar actually.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (17:14.386)
Pepper pigs, wedding cakes. suppose it's like finding your way through all of that. Did you have to do this? Hungry caterpillars? Was it the Tesco hungry caterpillar? Was it those ones?

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (17:32.08)
Wow. See, I think I might've just clicked something for you here. mean, you know, I'm loving it already. dear. So, what did your, were your thirties for you? Were they a decade where, I mean, obviously you've, you've now, cause when you're 30, you obviously then doing your dark cherry at this point. Yeah.

Janelle Adams (17:36.366)
It's abstract, it's abstract in my head though. My version of Pondicham. Okay.

Janelle Adams (18:02.434)
Yes, just starting.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (18:04.402)
So was this, so was that for you a decade where you finally felt like yourself? Was that, you know, was that kind of almost like coming home to yourself with start and something like this?

Janelle Adams (18:15.662)
I don't think we got there yet. No, I'm feeling like myself. I think we're just sort of hitting that point. That's sort of coming now. I don't know if it's a Perry thing, but the filter has been violently ripped away. And so I have no tolerance for...

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (18:29.787)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (18:41.618)
Mm.

Janelle Adams (18:45.162)
anyone else's rubbish or time wasting or anything like that. And I've made a conscious decision to work more on myself this year and do things that enrich me and not worry about is everyone else okay? Is everyone else having a good time or anything like that? It's like sort them, sort them all. I'm look after me. So I think we're just coming into that, that getting to know myself sort of era.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (18:50.064)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (19:09.584)
Yeah.

Janelle Adams (19:15.278)
Thank

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (19:15.73)
I think it's one of the great, one of the big secrets really about the whole kind perimenopause thing. we've said this before that there was never much discussion around it and it was always gonna be, you were gonna be getting hot sweats or you might sleep very well and then your period stops, then ta-da, you're at no longer have periods. And that was as much as we knew or certainly our generation or my generation knew about what

Janelle Adams (19:32.782)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (19:45.564)
perimenopause was, and you might go a bit mad, you my mum definitely went a bit mad or we thought she went a bit mad. Bless her. But we didn't have much of way of understanding. And of course it's only in recent years that it's kind of like, it's actually happening in your brain. So when you say like it's violently rips the, you know, rips the veil off or whatever it is, you know, it does feel like that. It's that kind of like, you know, you're, you're expecting these things to happen in your body, but if they're not necessarily happening in your body,

Janelle Adams (20:02.574)
I'm sure you can me. I'm not sure if can me. You know, I've been in the business for long time. I've a long I've in the business for I've business for a long time. I've been in for time. I've business I've been business long time. I've business business for long time. I've I've

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (20:15.214)
It's your brain that's having this absolute meltdown and, you know, I can totally relate to the whole, you know, I I definitely unraveled, but that was mostly going on in my head, you know, in a way that it hadn't before. So, yeah. So what's, what's your experience of that?

Janelle Adams (20:32.302)
Yeah. I've been doing a lot of research, a lot of talking to myself. I know we had a brief exchange about naming our brains. Mine is called Tiffany and when she's being a bit stupid I have to have a stern stern word with that Tiffany, stop it.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (20:58.13)
I love Tiffany.

Janelle Adams (21:04.261)
I did at one point, towards the end of wedding season, I have also had an imaginary kitchen helper. I find myself at sort of four in the morning explaining how to fix a split ganache to someone who is not there. Oh yeah. Yep.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (21:20.498)
I love this. So people now have like AI bot agents and you have like imaginary little perimenopause brain friends that can assist you. That's so helpful. Wow. I love this for you. Okay. So is Tiffany your inner critic? Does this one have a name? your sous chef, does she have a name? It's a bloke. Brilliant. Okay.

Janelle Adams (21:32.078)
Yeah, it's entertaining. It was a bloke. was a strong teenage bloke. I don't know why. I was apparently giving him work experience. yeah, just having to explain each step. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (21:54.103)
Love this. I love this.

Brilliant. And so, so Tiffany, is she, is she your inner critic? Is she the one that just kind of, or is she somebody else?

Janelle Adams (22:07.35)
Yeah, yeah, she's, yeah, she can be a bit.

bit critical, a bit... She can be... She's not depressing, but she's just a bit negative sometimes. She's almost like the embodiment of the imposter syndrome. It's like, what are you doing that for? Shut up.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (22:24.594)
Mmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (22:33.218)
Yes. Yeah. I love that you have a name for it. And I think it's actually, it's a really good practice to have a name for it, to kind of separate it almost from yourself because no, no, mine was called Susan actually, you know, my, yeah, my one, because she, yeah, I think she just pretended.

Janelle Adams (22:38.286)
yeah, that's nothing to do with me.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (22:55.26)
to be nice and pretended to be my friend for a long time. And then it turned out that she wasn't very nice at all. that was because she was, it was this kind of negative voice in my head. I don't think, or maybe we're just really special, but I don't think we'd be alone in that kind of like naming your, you know, your, let's say your alter ego, but you know, the kind of that negative Nancy part of your brain that, you know, that in a critic mean school, you know, mean school girl, whatever it is, it's, know.

Janelle Adams (23:00.718)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (23:24.88)
And just having that awareness, I guess, that she can be quietened, that she's not, you know, she's not running the show. You know, that's, no, no, that's.

Janelle Adams (23:34.052)
No, no, she's not running this show. Is this how we end up like James McAvoy and Split? With multiple personalities? Is this how it starts?

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (23:46.642)
I think this is how we end up in little special institutions, but anyway, we'll just go with them.

Janelle Adams (23:52.11)
You know when I was younger... It's a terrible thought but when I was younger I thought just for like a week's break a padded cell get my meals delivered. That would be really nice. I could deal with that.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (23:53.968)
We'll go with film rolls.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (24:05.489)
Hahaha

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (24:11.602)
Do you know when I had my kids, I had both of them, I had them in the main city hospital and then I went along to a maternity hospital after it was like a maternity cottage hospital they were called and they were run just by midwives and you could go and stay in there like for the few days following having your baby. And honestly, I used to think I'm actually going to book into here every year, minus babies obviously, because they're a little bit annoying because it was like...

Janelle Adams (24:22.27)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (24:37.842)
two weeks or whatever time, a week, whatever, in this beautiful room with beautiful sunlight coming through, know, they pop in and see if you want to come to a lovely, here's a sandwich for you. So nice. Thanks very much. I just it was just absolutely delightful. I was just a little bit kind of a baby, which is a bit annoying because obviously I was trying to relax here, you know. So I totally get you. think a week in a cell would be lovely, actually.

Janelle Adams (24:43.622)
lovely.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (25:06.994)
dear. the, so perimenopause is just kind of like that's happening for you right now. So this has been how, so how has this presented itself to you?

Janelle Adams (25:12.75)
I'm a lot more aware of stress. I don't know if the stress has increased or if it's just my awareness of stress has increased, but I've been doing a lot of research and there's a chat

I've his name down. Josh Fraser Young, he keeps popping up on my Instagram and everything, he's a psychologist and everything that he posts is just like, that resonates, that resonates, that resonates. And so I've got an email recently about resetting your nervous system. And it's like this 30 day thing when he gives you practical exercises.

And I just thought that sounds right up my alley at the moment. I've just downloaded it this morning actually. So I'm looking forward to the next 30 days to see what sort of effect that has. Yeah, trying to lower the stress, lower the cortisol naturally without taking a whole load of things. So yeah, I'm going to the gym quite a lot at the moment. I've got a lovely little trainer guy.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (26:30.044)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Janelle Adams (26:40.972)
I say little, he's about six foot three. But cause he's younger, it's just like, he's little. But yeah, I can take you seriously. But he's, he's lovely and he's really helpful. I mean, he started, we started off in person, but he's since moved to Sydney. So we now do it online.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (26:45.874)
He's little.

You're so cute

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (26:57.979)
you

Janelle Adams (27:10.318)
And it turns out that I respond very well to virtual bullying. He'll send me a message saying, you haven't checked in at the gym. I'm going to out you on your social media if you don't check into this. OK, I'm going, I'm going.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (27:18.574)
Ha ha ha.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (27:25.746)
Bullying slash accountability, let's go with. Yeah.

Janelle Adams (27:30.168)
Yeah, yeah, That's helping as well. So, and I'm gonna just treat myself more gently in general, I think. Put myself first a little bit and, you know, take myself off for the weekend if I need a break, things like that.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (27:48.006)
Yeah, I love this. Again, know, sort of five, 10, you know, not that many years ago, the first thing that would have happened would you'd been put on anti-anxiety or anti-depression or anything like that. And the fact that obviously, you know, I can relate definitely to the anxiety because I remember...

Janelle Adams (28:00.59)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (28:08.106)
suddenly feeling absolutely terrified before I had to go and do a wedding. Now I've been doing weddings for years and I would rock up every morning, cool as a cucumber, never bothered. But then I would start to get kind of quite, I could feel the anxiety rising before I'd arrive somewhere. And that was really, it's quite discombobulating because you've never felt this way before, you know, and you're kind of trying to calm something that makes no sense to you because

Janelle Adams (28:14.05)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (28:36.239)
You've got this, you know, every, you know, if you could, you could do it in your sleep, probably, but all of a sudden this anxiety, you know, comes out of nowhere. And there would have been a time as I say, that you'd have gone to the doctors and something had gone, that's okay. I hear how this anxiety or antidepressant. And I'm not saying for some people, they are absolutely, you know, the thing that's going to make the big difference, but it's brilliant that there's conversations around this and there are other avenues. And I think one of the most important things we can do is just be gentle with ourselves, as you say.

Janelle Adams (28:43.662)
Yeah, absolutely. Be forgiving with yourself. You can't...

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (29:05.884)
think that's so important, you know, that kind of.

Janelle Adams (29:13.048)
This is all new and not everybody around you understands it or supports it. So it can be quite isolating, So yeah, but there's some wonderful guys online. I've written them down as well, but who are at the moment, they're recognizing, you know, that

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (29:15.026)
Mmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (29:25.01)
Mmm.

Janelle Adams (29:42.328)
female mental load that we all carry. And their understanding that they actually need to step up a bit more, but a lot more. So there's guys like Speech Prof, this is lovely American chap. Dadhugs4yoursoul, he's on Instagram, he's fantastic. And Will Hitchens, he's an Aussie guy.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (29:45.735)
Yes.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (29:53.596)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Janelle Adams (30:10.742)
and he's just brutal he tears both guys to shreds I love him

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (30:15.666)
I love this because it's actually making men part of the conversation and it absolutely needs to be the case, you know, because if you live with a man, if you've got, you know, got a husband or a brother or a son or whoever it is that shares your space with you, it's really important that they have an understanding of what you're going through as well and that you're not just kind of like losing it or, know.

Janelle Adams (30:34.51)
Yes. Yes. Yes. 100%. 100%.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (30:41.17)
given the opportunity to gaslight you into kind of going, we've already talked about this, you know. So I think it's a really, it's a really important angle actually to come from with, getting men involved in these conversations because they absolutely need to be.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (30:58.03)
Yeah, yeah, that's so good. So when you, where you know, you're in your 40s now. So yeah, so you're probably right in that, in that sweet spot where it all starts to kind of unravel. And as I say, like, apparently, when I spoke to women, they're 60s, it's all gone by then. And it's absolutely brilliant. It's brilliant when you get through the other side, but obviously that

Janelle Adams (31:06.509)
Yes. Unravel.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (31:24.4)
period, which, you know, we're just going to refer to as the messy middle is messy for a really, you know, it's, it's quite messy for a long time. But as again, I think it's really important to have these conversations because there's so many women that are going through this stuff that don't know what's happening to them or don't know, you know, that may be saying, well, I don't think it's that because I'm not having, I'm not having a hot flushes, you know, I mean, I think in reality, I think mine probably went on for about 10 years.

Janelle Adams (31:24.468)
my God. Yeah.

Janelle Adams (31:42.114)
Hmm.

Okay. Okay.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (31:54.162)
I mean, I remember losing it. I put this down to the fact that at some point in 2015, I had eyebrows and then I didn't have eyebrows. And I've done this because I've found my photos. gone, see, I had eyebrows there. A months later, no, eyebrows has disappeared. Don't know, just kind of they weren't there, whatever happened to them. So now, could this be perimenopause? Yes, quite likely. Could it be stress at work also?

quite likely, you know? So it's these things, it's that kind of like, it this or is it that? You know, because it's also that time in our lives when we tend to get really, really busy. And before we do what you do, which is kind of inquire, self-inquiry, we'll just kind of go, God, I'll just work harder because I'm just obviously losing it right now. So a lot of women, and I will definitely include myself, just immerse ourselves fully into busyness.

Janelle Adams (32:22.982)
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (32:45.862)
to try and, you know, out busy the crazy that's going on in your head, but actually it comes and finds you in the end anyway. hence the meltdown, hence the unraveling. But yeah, but it's really important that we're having these conversations. And I think it's brilliant for you that you've already identified that you just need to be more gentle with yourself because that's 100 % what needs to happen and to get many involved in the conversation.

Janelle Adams (32:46.072)
Yes. Yeah.

Janelle Adams (33:09.344)
Yes. Yeah. It's hard.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (33:13.382)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (33:18.128)
Yeah, no, it's, yeah, it is. It's not, it's not an easy process. And it's like, you know, you do feel like you're absolutely losing your marbles a few times, you know, and there's lots of tears and you don't quite, you know.

Janelle Adams (33:28.247)
I don't know why, where did the bloody tears come from? my god, my god, look I was watching something this morning on Instagram and I saved it because I wanted to send it to you because I knew we were going to be talking about this sort of stuff. I've got to find it now. What was it? It was something ridiculous and it just had me bawling.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (33:36.155)
I know.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (33:57.54)
It's not the monkey thing, is it?

Janelle Adams (33:57.678)
Yes. Oh no, that also had me. I can't. I couldn't watch it. I saw one little snippet and I was like, no, I can't. I can't. I can't. No, there's some guy walking along the beach and it just says, good fucking morning Glitter Gremlin. And it goes on as like today's goal is to be as fucking awesome as you, you know, you always are. And it just, it got me.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (34:00.946)
can't watch it. I can't watch it. No, no.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (34:28.432)
Yeah.

Janelle Adams (34:29.13)
I can be awesome! You're You're too! Yeah. Hold on. Unnecessary. You could do without that.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (34:32.722)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, but it's like, I do remember going to the, cause I was on a, well, I am on a HRT patch, which was, which really worked for me, but I started off on a really, really low dose, which was great to start with. And then soon it wasn't so great in so much as kind of like, you know,

Janelle Adams (34:49.295)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (34:56.806)
why am I crying because the postman's not here yet? Why am I crying because my tea's gone cold? Just because I'd forgotten it'd been there for an hour. I remember going in and saying to the pharmacist, I gave her a new prescription for an update when the dose was increased.

She said, it wasn't that long ago since she came for your lessons. I went, I know I had to go and get a dose increase and said, because I just need to stop crying at everything. And she's like, God bless you. feel your pain because she's about my age. So like, and it's that kind of moment where a woman sees the woman and kind of goes, I know, right.

Janelle Adams (35:25.518)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (35:37.71)
I know, because it's, it's, yeah, it's brutal. But we, but also we need to, we need to talk about it. We need to hear, we need to normalise it. We need to kind of go, you know, no, you're not going mad. No, you don't.

Janelle Adams (35:47.491)
Yeah, all of this stuff is happening in here. Nobody talks about it. Nobody warns you that it's coming. It's just this big scary dark cloud with menopause written upon it. But nobody explains the actual ins and outs, the details, what is going to happen to your emotions, to your brain, your, to you physically. It's just, yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (35:51.238)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (35:56.293)
No.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (36:01.136)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (36:12.797)
Yeah, yeah. And because I guess it's so vast and we can all have such different, it can impact us all so differently. That's the thing, you know, because some people will kind of go, oh yeah, my period's just stopped. didn't know anything about it. You know, I mean, those are rare freak people. can't even possibly be friends with those people, but when you think about it, there's like, you know, when a child or, you know, goes from kind of,

Janelle Adams (36:31.082)
Get out. Okay.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (36:40.338)
child to teen, go through that period of adolescence, which obviously that's the whole, what's going on in the brain at that point, and there's all sorts of lights going off and lights, clothes are shutting down. And, know, there's so much activity as that brain basically reshapes and reforms itself to then move on to become the adult brain. The same thing happens through menopause, because it's happening in the brain. There's all sorts of light lights going on, lights turning off big areas where, you know, we give less of a shit about things and, you know, other things light up. So

Janelle Adams (36:57.165)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (37:10.198)
but the name given to that is menopause, which basically means your blood stops flowing. That there needs to be, there needs to be a better name than menopause because it's more, because that indicates that's the only thing that happens. I'm not quite sure supercalifragilisticexpialidocious is the one, but maybe something along those lines because there's an awful lot going on at that point. Yeah. Yeah.

Janelle Adams (37:15.086)
There's so much going on.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (37:38.492)
But I do think it's important to have those conversations because, you know, I think it's just to kind of normalize all the things that are going on for many women. you know, yeah, let's talk about it. So when we look back through all of the versions of Janelle, so obviously we've got the kind of, you know, we've got the teenage goth Janelle, we've got the one that went off to London and then worked in corporate and then went into cake baking and, you know, and all the things.

Janelle Adams (37:41.998)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (38:06.138)
So for you, are there any threads that have run through all of it? And that can be anything that can be a strength, it can be a passion, can be a struggle, anything.

Janelle Adams (38:10.958)
I don't know if it's a strength or... because all this stuff pops up on your Instagram and it resonates but then you think so that possibly wasn't a strength me being hyper independent

for my entire life. Maybe that was just me not trusting people. Oh, right, okay. So I think that's the first thing that popped into my head, is that I've been, you know, independent for the vast majority of my life. Not really relying on other people for much, if anything. And yeah, I do wonder sometimes, it's like,

Is that a strength or is that me putting up barriers? Is that me creating distance? I don't know. I don't know. This is all just popping into my head recently. But I had always thought the independence was a strength.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (39:20.164)
It's

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (39:25.42)
I think it's got everything as a shadow side though, doesn't it? And recently was talking to Jenny Cole, who was on the podcast and she was talking about how your strengths can become your weaknesses. And there's very often a reason that you've developed this strength in the first place and it may have been to kind of protect yourself from something if you kind of think of the, how that becomes a shadow, but also it's like your independence is great and brilliant. And it really is a strength in allowing you to kind of

Janelle Adams (39:28.268)
Hmm.

Janelle Adams (39:42.964)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (39:54.436)
you know, not be unafraid to do things on your own, but also does that mean that you're, you don't ask for help, which then can become a weakness for you, you know, so, so no, no, but it's good to recognise. Yeah, it's important to recognise these things. And of course, I think it's, you know,

Janelle Adams (40:04.654)
Oh yeah, no. We don't ask for help. I don't need you if I can do all of the things. Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (40:19.058)
Well, it's the same with anything, whatever your strengths are, there's always going to be a shadow side to that. So it's kind of, it's always good to find that strength within that. So how has that independence played out for you in your life?

Janelle Adams (40:33.614)
I'm quite good at cutting people out if they are no longer bringing anything enriching to the experience of knowing them.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (40:56.102)
That can only be a good thing, surely. We don't learn that. We mostly don't learn that until our sort of late forties. We don't learn that until perimenopause mostly. So that the fact that you've been able to do that earlier is really good. Yeah, you did get it. like, so good. Okay.

Janelle Adams (40:58.374)
I've got a head start on that one. But yeah, situations, if something's not, if something's not working, then just don't waste any more time on it.

move to the next bit whatever the next bit is going to be which can be quite exciting.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (41:31.45)
Yeah. Yeah. No, it's always exciting. I think when you take something out of your life that's consuming time and energy that isn't necessarily bringing you joy, then I think the idea of kind of removing that from your life then just brings, it just creates space for more things that you want to bring in. You know, so that's, yeah. So that's a good thing. That's a good thing about the independence.

Janelle Adams (41:44.11)
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (41:59.986)
So are there any others? Are there any other strengths or any other threads for you?

Janelle Adams (42:10.976)
I don't really know. My mama ties everything together. Came back to Australia because I miss my mom too much. She's the one that started the baking. I guess it all sort of threads back to having the best mama in the world.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (42:21.667)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (42:33.132)
Yeah, which is so beautiful. think Steve Jobs had said that you can't ever connect the dots going forward. You can only ever sort of look back and see where all those connections are made and all the threads that have kind of run through your life that kind of make sense as you get older. But to have your mum as such a thread that's been so important in your life. And she's still around, yeah, your mum? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Janelle Adams (42:44.654)
yeah, yeah, she lives just five minutes down the road.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (43:03.43)
Yeah, brilliant. And is she still, is she still helping you with baking? Is she still coming in with the, does she bring the heavy beaters?

Janelle Adams (43:11.15)
Not so much these days, but she was helping out at expos and all of that sort of thing. yeah, she's been there from the very beginning.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (43:23.972)
Yeah and I know that you said before about perhaps doing a cookbook with your mum, that still something that's kind of on there?

Janelle Adams (43:30.318)
I would love that. It's not, it's not an idea, it's sort of something that we've both said almost in passing, but like the idea is building in the back of my head. it's like, how do we sit down and actually get this done? Because her memory is fantastic. She's got a much better memory than I do. And so she's got all, and she's a fantastic storyteller as well. So she'll be able to put

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (43:56.658)
Yeah.

Janelle Adams (43:59.104)
a story together and I'm just, you know, hanging on the skirt tails. just, I love this idea. Let's get a book done. I think it would be lovely. think we've got some great stories to put in there and not just a cookbook, but it'll be a story as well. I don't know, her journey, our journey, it'd be lovely.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (44:09.957)
Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (44:24.53)
particularly when you you go back to that photograph of you, you know, that core memory of yours, you know, and it is such a part of your story. And again, this is such a part of like what has kind of threaded through your whole life. So I think that would be, I mean, I'm already looking forward to this, this cookbook storybook. I think it would just be, you know,

Janelle Adams (44:32.192)
Hmm.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (44:46.194)
But even in the way that you describe it and how there's so much creativity and there's so much immersion in the art and the stories, I think this would be such a beautiful creation for you and your mum. What has stopped it from happening so far?

Janelle Adams (45:02.783)
Yeah. we're just so busy. Too busy. We need to actually plot some time to actually talk about it. The starters rather than just having a one-liner idea spouted, but actually sit down, talk about it. How do you do it? Do we write it? Does someone interview us and then we all write it together? I have no idea.

of the process. It's just a nice sort thought out there at the moment.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (45:35.708)
Yeah, shine some light on that now, it's a brilliant idea. So, is there anything in life that you absolutely weren't prepared for and something that you wish that more was talked about more or more openly?

Janelle Adams (45:40.566)
Yeah, we'll

not gonna bang on about how useless blokes are and how someone really could have warned me about that one. I mean come on, someone could have given me a heads up. Would have been nice. there's a... yeah, no I can't say that, no.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (46:17.586)
You

Okay.

It's a bit pick and mix to be honest, you know, it's a bit pick and mix.

Janelle Adams (46:38.967)
I was going to say, there's a thread for you, the useless bloody boyfriends I've had in the past.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (46:47.858)
We could go that long to just edit this bit.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (46:55.026)
fine. So if we bring it on more to a positive. if we look, obviously I know that you have your nieces who you absolutely adore.

Janelle Adams (47:07.562)
Yes, I do adore my nieces. I've got my dragon brooch on today. This was given to me by Abby, which is my littlest niece. And she gave me this because she'd been suffering with a tooth, a little baby tooth was coming out, was coming out, was hanging by a thread. It was causing her a lot of grief, a lot of pain. And we were on our annual family holiday down south. And I said to her,

I promise you I can get it out and it won't cause you any pain and that'll it'll be done. didn't believe me, didn't believe me, didn't believe me and this went on for a couple of days and it's like do you want to get it sorted? Go and lie down on the bed. I'm gonna come in with a bit of handy towel. We're gonna sort it right now. Mum lay down on the other side of the bed and held her hand. I was like three, two, done. She was like is that it? No pain, no fuss, nothing. And so yeah she gave me.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (47:58.642)
Ta-da!

Janelle Adams (48:06.956)
That is a thank you. No, no, no remote control car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (48:07.282)
that's so nice. So there was no string. There was no door handles. There was none of the none of the drama. Yes, I've seen that one. Yes, God, the horrors. It's almost like we're going to set up your torture chamber for you and watch us set up this torture chamber. Or you can just lie down in bed, a grandma holding your hand, a little bit of towel. How lovely. So if your nieces then are watching you.

Janelle Adams (48:35.406)
strong. Hello tears. What the fuck?

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (48:36.754)
What kind of woman do you hope that they see?

Janelle Adams (48:54.75)
Ugh. From nowhere. Again. Wow.

Give me a sec.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (49:03.834)
I'm here.

Janelle Adams (49:06.438)
ridiculous. The things that they tell me when they write me little notes and stuff like that, because they call me Auntie Yay because they couldn't, my older niece Carrie, when she was little she couldn't say Jay but Janelle so she called me Auntie Yay.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (49:08.581)
you

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (49:32.356)
Okay.

Perfect. Love it. Yay.

Janelle Adams (49:36.014)
and now everyone just calls me Auntie Yeh, which I love. I absolutely love it. They're coming for a sleepover next weekend actually and I'm taking them out shopping, which is my birthday present for my older niece Carrie. She's just turned 13. So yeah, it's a really, really nice time to actually have them.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (49:58.028)
why?

Janelle Adams (50:05.506)
want to hang out with their auntie still. I don't know how more years I've got left with that left. There's some, yeah, it's really, yeah. Yeah, that comes later.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (50:07.41)
Yeah... Yeah...

you've probably got a few because I think the auntie's always like a step removed. So that auntie's not mum, which, you know, mum is not your best friend at those times. mean, you know, it's mum's going through her own stuff. That does come later. Yeah. But for mums, kind of, we're shut up right outside the circle of that point going, I'm still here. I know you're vile to me, but I still love you.

Janelle Adams (50:32.226)
Yeah. Yeah, so that's really nice because they listen and so you can just put little snippets of knowledge and wisdom in there, which is lovely. And we also have a really girly time with like skin care and they're very into makeup at the moment. So we go to Sephora and they buy whatever they want.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (50:48.559)
Yeah.

Janelle Adams (51:00.162)
Yeah, it's really lovely. I can't be dealing with that amount of makeup. Why, why, why with the dark brown? I don't understand. I don't understand contouring. I'm never going to. I think it looks amazing on the people that can do it. I am not one of them.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (51:00.176)
Yeah, you're watching all the TikTok videos on how to do stripes all over your face and...

48 different products just for your eyes.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (51:27.57)
I know a gal, do you know? I know a gal.

Janelle Adams (51:28.334)
I love it when you do my makeup. It looks so glam, I love it.

Sharon Wilkes-Burt (51:37.458)
when you if I were to put you in a time machine and you were good to go back to that pretty baby goth Janelle, what would you go back and say to her?

Janelle Adams (51:48.142)
don't listen to other people.

Get more introspective. Figure out what you want and just fucking chase that.