EP 22 | From Launch to Exit: How Planning Ahead Protects Your Business

How to build a niche staffing business, scale smart, and sell for millions.

Diane Prince joins Paloma Goggins to share how she turned a side-room startup into a $28M exit. From choosing a defensible niche in title insurance to hiring aligned A-players and building scalable systems, she breaks down the moves that made her business irresistible to buyers.

Diane also shares the messy realities: failed ventures, non-competes, lifestyle creep, and the myths of passive income and perfection. Learn how to document what works, delegate early, and prepare for a sale without losing control or sanity.

Press play to get practical strategies for building, scaling, and exiting a business with confidence.

Transcript

Cold Open And Show Setup

SPEAKER_01 0:01

In the world of business, not all deals are what they see. Fortunes rise, empires crumble, all with the stroke of a pen. Mergers, acquisitions, hostile takeovers. Welcome to Mergers She Wrote, where we examine strategies and stories behind the biggest deals in business. Because in MA, the real risks are the ones you don't take. Welcome back to another episode of Mergers She Wrote. I'm Paloma Goggins, your host and the owner of Nocturnal Legal. Our guest today is going to share her journey on how she started a staffing agency in a side room in a rental home and ultimately sold it for$28 million. I'd like to welcome our guest today, Diane Prince. Hey Paloma. Thank you so much for being on today. Thanks for having me. So I'd like to just dive right in. How did you decide to start a staffing agency? Did you have a background in this arena or did you just decide on a whim to go with this type of industry?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Well, kind of neither. So I had a little bit of background from temping. I my first temp assignment was when I was working in London. I was 19 years old. I got a student work permit and poured beer in a pub one night, and I was terrible at it. I had like beer all over me. And an English man said, How fast do you type? And then I started temping the next day. So I had it somewhat of experience. And then fast forward a few years, I was newly married, and my then husband and I had the idea of starting a business that we could build and exit. So then we started thinking about business models that where we could do that that were scalable. So we worked our way from there and arrived at staffing and we, yeah, had a temp agency for title insurance.

Building With The Exit In Mind

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Building your business with the end in mind, do you think that that helped guide you in a more unique manner than I feel like most people start their businesses and they don't even think about the end until they've grown to a certain size or maybe they've they've reached a certain age. And so knowing that when you started this at such a young age that your goal ultimately was to sell the business, how do you think that really helped guide you in building the vision and just scaling the business? Like what was the impact of that mindset?

SPEAKER_00 2:28

It impacted everything that we did because even from the decision on what kind of business we would start, because we were we spent several months brainstorming and thinking about different business ideas. And some were, you know, we're we would have been okay, but we were like, no, that's not quite, that doesn't fit our vision. And now I business coach, I work with some founders, and some people will come to me several years later who have who after starting their business, and they might have a profitable business, but they don't like it because it's not serving what they want out of life. So a lot of people start businesses with either something they're good at or some solution that they want to solve for the world, but it doesn't solve what they want to get out of it.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Uh well, and I think that's such an important point that you brought up, which is like that disconnect between building a business that fits the lifestyle and the and the end goal that you want versus looking at to solve a problem that perhaps at the end of the day. I mean, I've listened to Diane talk about the her starting a secondary business after selling her first agency with which was a closing clothing line, and and you had said this just wasn't a good fit for you lifestyle-wise. And so, you know, for something that was started and you ultimately were like, I need to close up shop because this isn't working, you know, what was what was the moment that you were like, okay, this is the wrong path?

The Clothing Venture And Hard Lessons

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah, well, I and I had originally started my clothing business with an exit in mind again. However, I I totally leapt into it. I I did it too fast. I had never had inventory before. And there were so many parts of the business that were just overwhelming and that just didn't work. So it was really uh, and I I probably I held on to it probably too long, not probably I held on to it too long, but it was the moment where I just realized it wasn't, it it just wasn't. It was too competitive clothing was too competitive, inventory was too difficult in the business model that we had. So it was, it was a combination of things where the women who were I so I had a direct sales model like Mary Kay or Stella and Dott, and the women who were selling it loved it. So they were having a great time and they were not happy when I closed it, but I just realized for me, I mean, it was really financially devastating and emotionally, and I was single at that point, divorced and raising three kids. So yeah, I had that moment.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

So, like I'm hearing just generally do what you know best is kind of maybe a guiding force, but also you started with no experience in the staffing agency. So, in my brain, I'm trying to marry the ideas of like, don't strain something that maybe perhaps is so outside your wheelhouse that it becomes this foreign entity that you're just operating and doesn't jive with your life. But at the same time, you started the staffing agency that you ultimately sold with with no prior experience. And so, how do we marry those two? Like, if someone is is thinking about, okay, my business now, I'm I want to scale, I want to sell, what would be something they would say to themselves in this process? Because the two are almost like diametrically opposed when you're thinking about something.

Starting Without Experience And Beating Paralysis

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Yeah, I mean, you have to start somewhere, right? And so for me, I'm I'm I'm a starter. So when we started our staffing agency, and we ran into somebody at our at a high one of our high school reunions, it was our 10-year 10-year high school reunion, and we ran into somebody who was working at Manpower, a global staffing agency, and he was saying, I'm just gonna get a little bit more experience before I start. So for us, we just jumped in. So that's really kind of how I am. And I think that starting something without experience in that industry gives you an edge because it gives you a creative edge and you can approach problems in a different way. Back then, our guide was a dummy's book on how to start a temp agency. Now there's so much information, it's overwhelming. There's so many influencers and coaches and content about how to do something that people, what I find is get paralyzed by all of the information and how should I do something. So I think there is a benefit to that common sense and bringing in your own personality. And yeah, and I mean, I think I think with the clothing business, for me, what was the issue was it was planning. It was planning the inventory and doing it at a bad time in my life as well. I was I did never start a business while you're while going through a divorce. Sound advice. So there were a lot of other things too. Like my kids started coming to me. Like they like they used to be um, I used to sort of share custody, and so I'd work when they were at their dads, and et cetera, et cetera. So there were a lot of other things as well.

From First Client To Million-Dollar Weeks

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Well, and I I think too, um this this idea of busy, busy life transitions, right? Um, and and knowing your own bandwidth and your own your own capability, I think it's so common in today's world for us to want to do everything. And it's been sold to us time and time again, right? Is that you you are capable of doing everything and anything that you want. And the reality is is we only have so much time in the day. And so I think too, if you're out there listening to this as a business owner that is either just starting their business or or perhaps, you know, in the early years of of operating, be honest with yourself, right? In your own capacity, because your ability to scale and grow something that is possibly sold for multiple millions depends on that. True, true. So you sold your first agency for a whopping 28 million, which uh congratulations, by the way. Um you've you've said in, and I I had the the good fortune of watching you present on the topic of how you scaled and sold your business at a co-working space that you belonged to a week before we had this episode. So I have a little bit of insider information. Um, but you had said, you know, with million-dollar weeks, which is amazing, uh, an incredible accomplishment. How does one go from starting a business and getting the first client to million dollar weeks? Because I feel like so many business owners know success, but this idea of success where you go from point A to point B, point A being starting from scratch, um, to point B being like just crazy wild success. Most people look at that and say, the point A to point B, I have no idea what that looks like in the middle. Um, you know, what can you share with us in terms of like how to get from point A to point B in any business really, but mostly from your perspective in your building your agency?

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Well, the first thing is is having the right offer, having the right product market fit or timing. It can be said in different ways, but you have to have you have to have good timing for your product. So for us, for a lot of reasons, we we so we did title insurance staffing, and for a lot of reasons that I won't go into, it was a really good timing in the market and where we started in Southern California. So that was one thing. We had good timing. We also did not stop. We were we were very disciplined and super driven and just kept on going. We also built a stellar team. Some people, well, uh a lot of most people kind of undervalue the importance of having the right people on your team. You cannot build a business like that with having underperformers. So it was it was the right team, relentlessness, just grit and hustle, all that, all that stuff you hear, and having having good timing.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

When it comes to grit and hustle, I feel like there's so much discussion out there about, you know, hustle is good, hustle is bad, hustle is is a nemesis for work-life balance, um, hustle being the the inevitable ingredient to success. You know, what is your perspective about hustle? I think I I'm hearing that you're saying it's a necessary, a necessary evil or ingredient to your success, but like to what degree do you think hustle was part of the success of your exit for this first agency? Do you do you feel like the hustle was consuming, or was it a good level of hustle?

Hustle, Balance, And Changing Seasons

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Everybody's different. Everybody has a different personality. So we thrived on it today. We're sold on the idea of having a business that works without you. That is, I I think that's that's a pipe dream. I there is there's got to be some kind of hustle. Now, and and and I'm saying this from somebody who I now I provide offshore teams, and I actually today in my business, I'm not such a hustler anymore because it's a different stage in my life. I don't know if I'll build an eight-figure business. I'm not sure. I have a very different vision of where I am now. And my team does do most of most everything that I that I don't want to do, or that's not my high value tasks, but I still am obsessed with my business. I still, however, I don't, I, I, I work nowhere near what I did then. That I was doing like 80-hour weeks, now it's more like 30.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Well, and I was gonna say too, the I like that you had said that it's it's so individual specific because I do, to your point, I do think that there are entrepreneurs out there that love the hustle. They love they love to eat, sleep, and breathe work, but there is that dichotomy right now in in the marketplace and in our culture that this four-hour work week, you know, the the idea of taking a vacation and making money while you sleep is is pushed so much online that I think there's I think it's even harder for a lot of business owners to feel like, man, I'm still hustling too much, even when hustle is in fact quite normal for a lot of people working in their business and on their business. Granted, there's ways that they can optimize their business, but generally speaking, you're not going to get away. Like there's like you said, it's a pipe dream. There's there's no way. I just I feel like unfortunately, a lot of the messaging today is is it makes people feel like they haven't quote unquote made it when in reality you you really can't have a business where you're just stepping back and it runs without you wholeheartedly.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

And and people people will ask me, they'll they'll say, Well, can I hire you to help me build I want to exit for$28 million, but you know, but I don't want to have employees, or I don't want to do this, or I don't want to do that. Well, I don't know how to do that because there is it, it's it's not easy. It's difficult work. And I'm not here to say it was easy. It was very complicated and hard. Now, my business today is a lot easier. I've built it in a different way, and I've been obsessed with figuring out how to have an offshore team do all of the heavy lifting. So that's my new obsession and way to way of building.

Who Buys Businesses And For How Much

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Do you think that someone could today with the right the right components, right? Because you've talked about having the right team, the right um determination, the right solution for the current current economy, the current, current needs. Um, do you think it's possible to sell at such a high amount for a business that is less complicated? Or do you think you still for something that's in the the millions of dollars range? I mean, I I think in my opinion, from what I'm seeing, in in my world, working a lot with business owners that are selling their businesses, I would say on average, the deal that is 10 million and above has employees, usually many of them. Yeah. Um, it's usually a fairly complicated business. Um, it can still be run lean um and and not be overburdened by processes and and infrastructure. But for the most part, you're not seeing, or at least I'm not seeing in the marketplace these uh, you know, two two people businesses that are selling for you know$60 million a pop.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

No, I haven't seen that. And and um yeah, and I mean you you know this from from your experience and your work. Every business, so I've sold a few other businesses. That when I sold to a public company, I've sold a business to a family office, to a private business, to a PE firm. And every everyone had a different motivation or reason for buying that specific business. So I learned you don't necessarily know who your buyer's going to be or why they're going to want it. And there's a few elements that are always important, like team building, having your having your financials in place, systems and things like that. But yeah, I think it it is a pipe dream to think that. You know, but but who knows? It could, you know. I mean, look at, you know, some businesses sell on an idea these days. So it just it just depends.

AI Hype, Reality, And Valuations

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Well, and I was gonna say too, maybe um the big bad AI changes some of that too as we as we shift and we morph in technology. Granted, there's always gonna be industries like staffing agencies where you know the human component is is hypercritical because we're I don't think we're anywhere close to having AI truly, even though that is the scare tactic on social media right now, replace human, uh, human workers in so many capacities. I mean, certainly there are some jobs that are um, I think, you know, far easier to replace than others, but when it comes to uh the technical and thinking work of a of a human, it's it's so hard to replace.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

So do you know the builder AI story? Have you heard that story? So builder.ai was a huge was a huge startup, and they got investors like they had soft bank, they raised, they raised$350 million. And their their idea was or what they did was they built apps with AI. So you basically shared your idea and they built the app. Well, it turns out they had hundreds of humans in India building the apps and they went they went bust.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Oh man. Well, I mean that that makes sense because uh from what I've read online, a lot of the like AI coding tools, people are just they're like, it's not quite there to be able to build an app completely without some sort of human touch to it. So that's funny.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Oh man, but it does raise your multiple, right? If you have AI.ai in your yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Well, I was gonna say too, that that seems to be a recurring theme. I have to wonder how many AI businesses actually have more human touch points than you actually realize on the back end when the the query is more complicated or a search has to be done that AI really can't do on its own. Um, I'd be really curious. Obviously, we're never gonna know the answer to that question.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Well, they say 95% of businesses exaggerate their use of AI.

Beating Perfectionism And Imposter Syndrome

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Interesting. Exaggerate in that they say they use it more or less. They use it more. More. That's fascinating. So we've talked separately about how you aren't a perfectionist and have never really experienced imposter syndrome, which I think is amazing. Um, I think for many people, they don't know what it's like to run a business without feeling either of those emotions or mindsets. What's your secret?

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Well, I a part of it is just probably how I am, just uh nature. And the more, the longer that I've been in business though, the more I realize that nobody really knows what they're doing. I mean, and so, or how many people don't know what they're doing. And I think that really that, you know, uh what I realized that kind of early on in business, like, oh, this person who is in this prestigious title or whatever, like, you know, and then becoming a business coach, all these men who have imposter syndrome, all these men, you know, sometimes we think, well, as a woman, we have we have imposter syndrome or this, but people just present it differently. So I think just realizing, and we're all impostors. I mean, no one was born with any of these, you know, things that we're doing and random things in business, and we're we're just making it up as we go. So I guess I've always kind of thought in that in that area, like, why not me? If that person if that person can do it. And the perfectionism thing too, I just I don't know. I just I don't have it in me, which is some ways a weakness because I don't have that attention to detail. And then I need to know that I need to build a team around me that that does. And then I need perfectionists around me.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Well, I I can't tell you how much having you say, why not me? I love that. I love that times a thousand because how many of us operate from the why me instead of why not me? And that mindset shift. For most people in business. And to your point, no one is born operating a business, right? And so we are all out there figuring it out at the same time, having our own trials and tribulations, you know, having hurdles to get over. And I I love this idea because how many of us as business owners need to be told, why not you?

SPEAKER_00 20:24

And it has had it has bitten me before. I've gotten burned by that with my clothing business. So my inspiration was Stella and Dot. And they had just sold it was like 10% of their business to Sequoia for$38 million. And then I had that, well, why not me? I'm like that too. Now I have a lot of reasons, why not me for that, for that particular endeavor.

Systems, A‑Players, And Hiring For Vision

SPEAKER_01 20:48

But to your point, I think one of the things that I appreciate in hearing your story and hearing about the way that you've started your businesses is to just try it. I love that idea. Is like there's so many people who are stymied by their fear of failure or their fear of maybe not achieving what they ultimately set out to achieve. And the only way you're going to find that out is just by doing it. Yeah. And to your point, starting your first agency as this, you know, kind of like almost a side hustle in a way, in this, you know, tiny room and a rented home. And, you know, you've shown me the picture of you, you know, next to this fax machine. And like, I just, I love the the you know, grassroots startup feel of like, I'm just gonna do it because no one is gonna tell me that I can't. And I I think that there's so many entrepreneurs and current business owners that need to be told and and and really take that and absorb it into their their own model. Because at the end of the day, if you're not gonna do it, somebody else will. We have limited days on this planet.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

That's that's why I stopped drinking too. I you're looking at like, you know, I did a life expectancy calculator and I'm looking at like, okay, I am not, you know, maybe I have 30 years, I don't know. And I don't want to waste it. And and none of this is that big of a deal.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Where does one take a life expectancy calculator? Oh, Google. I'm like, I don't, I don't want to know. I don't want to know, but also like that's terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

So it asks you about like your habits and that's how it calculates. I find it very empowering. Yeah, it asks about your habits and your your health and your you know, smoking and drinking history and things like that. Are you married, which I'm not, but you know, I did live by the ocean, which elevated it. I have good friends with which elevates it. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

I wonder in its its algorithm, like being married is like it increases or decreases your like that's a that's it's such a subjective. I was just thinking about all the things it can ask you, and it's like, well, your marriage could be amazing or it could be terrible. That could be like being in a being married, like is not subjectively just the question.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

I probably for men it for men it increases and women it decreases, I'm thinking. I can't see that.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

We're being cynical. Um all right. So you believe in the power of systems and hiring an A-Team. And I know your your current agency is called A Team. Yes. And um what advice would you give a business owner listening to this episode about how those two pillars of your business shaped your ability to sell your agency?

Prep For Sale And Using Bankers

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Yeah, so hustle will take you to a certain point, and then you need to put in systems. So we were totally flying by the seat of their pants and my first business, and which I do a lot of times in my businesses. Like for me, it's you know, people be like, I got my LLC, and I know you're a lawyer, so no offense. But I'm like, I'm just like get your first sale. Like, who cares? You know, taxes aren't due until next year. Like, get like get just get some money in. So that's kind of how I look at things. But then then you do need to put in the systems and the structure to to really build something that's scalable. So that is essential. That was a huge, huge um cliche, but game changer for us when once we started really putting in systems and and hiring the right people. So it's it and it's also about understanding your your weaknesses and bringing in people who have strengths that can um that can counterbalance your weaknesses. And and when when you're going to sell, that's important too. Systems are important, structures important. A reason why I've been able to sell businesses is because of the team that I put together and intentionally building uh teams that wanted to stay on uh with the business when I didn't want to.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

I was gonna say one of the things that I I feel like is a big question for anybody in the process of scaling is is how do you hire thoughtfully? And as someone who has built businesses around the idea of of staffing and staffing appropriately, I mean, we're not just talking about staffing for your clients, we're also talking about staffing for yourself so that you can continue to run and scale. I mean, what what are some things that you learned in the process of being able to hire and place people into title companies and also for your own for your own business?

SPEAKER_00 25:10

So one of my core values is vision. And so, similarly to how I build businesses based on my personal vision and what I want to get out of them, I've learned that hiring key employees based on their personal visions as well. Especially if you have an early stage business and you're bringing on people who are hireable, you need to make sure that their personal vision can be satisfied with the role that they play in your business. For example, one of our first executives that we brought on, his goal was to become CEO of a publicly traded staffing agency. We wanted to leave, like we wanted to get out. So we had no problem putting him, pushing him forefront so that he could then, and he ended up getting what he wanted. He ended up being CEO when we sold the business. He was fired a few months later by that. That wasn't my problem.

Non-Competes, Carve-Outs, And Lawsuits

SPEAKER_01 26:04

No, it wasn't part of your game plan or his, obviously. With an acquisition, everything's kind of off the table. Um but I like I like that idea. When when you're asking about people's vision, is it part of the initial interview questions?

SPEAKER_00 26:19

100%. I ask what are your career goals? That's a first, that's a first interview question. I always do a pre-interview. So I have a very quick, like 10-minute pre-interview, so that then I have a cooling off period. So if it's I'm excited about their personality or whatever, I take time though to really think about it. But I always ask, that's my first question that I always ask is what what are your career goals? So I want to know that what they're going to do in my business, and and this is this is any role. And you know, I have small businesses, so this is any role in the business. I want to know that they're going to, they're going to be able to hit their personal goals at this time in their life. And if they're things that are beyond the business, then if they're a fit now, then how do we help them through this? So it's not some like awkward conversation or, you know, you know what they want and you help them to get it. And then they help in in return help you in your business.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

I like that. So what happens when you're interviewing someone and you ask them their career goals and they don't have any? Is that not is that a B player or a C player? Or do you are you like, I'll help you guide, I'll help guide you to help you. Because I can imagine for some individuals who are potentially on the younger side, they haven't thought too hard about what their long-term goals are, other than to get paid and have a means to an end.

Greed, Lifestyle Drift, And Money Mindsets

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Yeah. Um, I don't know if I've ever had anyone not be able to answer the question. Because even if it's even if it's short term or even if they're they're just starting out, and even if their goal is making money. I mean, when I'm looking for salespeople, that's it, and I also have people rank what's most important to them. And if they're in a commission-based role and they don't say money is the first thing, I dig in and I want to know why. And the only acceptable answer is because I know I'm gonna hit my commission. So it just depends on what role they're going for. And it could be, it could be shorter-term goals. It doesn't always have to be long-term vision. But if they are a key player, if they are going to be have an equity stake, I want to know everything. I meet their families, I want to know that they're because it's gonna be hard. I want to know that their families are are are bought in the whole deal because people go into co-founder. I know you know this, people go into co-founder relationships. So um just without without due diligence. Yes. And I I coach a lot of people through separating from their co-founders.

Step-By-Step Growth And Breaking Plateaus

SPEAKER_01 28:48

It is it is an unfortunate theme. And I actually I see it more frequently with people that are closer before they partner. So you know, long time friends, family, um people that, you know, they're like, I've known this person since kindergarten, they're my best friend. Like those are the worst because people change, and unfortunately, no matter how much you warn individuals, like, okay, we're gonna put together an operating agreement because it's your prenup, right? You gotta have something so that in case things go south, you can separate and break up amicably, and that operating agreement can be the playbook for that. Um, but there's so many times I have conversations where we're adding people as as members or people are joining in as partners, and then as soon as money starts rolling in, the dynamics change because friendships never had money as a dynamic, it's not a husband and wife do or it's you know, and and even in in parent-child relationships or even sibling relationships, the money dynamic has never been, you know, how do I get my fair share from the work I've put in? It's it's either a support role or just equal sharing. And so it's it's interesting how I think ironically, money typically is the the driving force for for a lot of people breaking up in their businesses. But to your point, it it happens so much. Yes, unfortunately. When it came time to sell your business, how did you start preparing?

SPEAKER_00 30:15

We hired for my first business, we hired an investment banker. So, and from the from the beginning, because we knew that was our goal, and in year two, we started meeting with him. So, way before we were ready. So, we'd meet with him every quarter and say, Okay, this is where we're at. What should we do next? So we took it as his advice. He became he became an advisor. And so once it was time that that time we went through their whole process. I mean, they did all the work, really. They were they, you know, wrote wrote a book, you know, they put prepare all the the book and then they put it out to their whole, you know, they find the buyers and all that.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Nice. Um, and was that something that like once you went through it the first time and you learned the process, did you feel emboldened to be able to do it a second time without that sort of guidance because you had received it already? Or was it something that you were like, okay, I want that person back on my team?

SPEAKER_00 31:08

We used them for another deal, and then it it also depended on the size of the deal. So I sold one offshoot, uh a section of one of my businesses to a private equity firm for a million dollars. That one I I I used my lawyer. Like I didn't use an investment banker for that. I mean investment banker, you know, there it's it's expensive, you know, those are six-figure checks that you write to them. Yes. So it just depended really on the on the size and the type of the deal.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Okay, that makes sense. Um, is there something that you wished you would have done differently in the process of selling your business looking back on it now?

SPEAKER_00 31:39

You know, I I um I guess in some ways for a long time I thought, well, maybe we sold it too early. Because we could have could have done more. And another thing I wish I would have done is document it. I wish I would have documented the process more so that yeah, so that I was telling the story as we did it, which I'm trying to do now.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Well, and I was gonna say documentation is is it's so hard to go, it's it's in the moment, you're like, I'll remember this. And then and then once it's done, it just blurs all together and like the the minutiae of it. I always I and I think of it this way we like to travel, and I always want to do a travel journal because I'll never remember the days that we've traveled in such detail if I don't write it down. And of course, when you're packing, you're like, oh, whoops, am I really gonna bring a you know a journal to lug around or whatever? And um, I'll always I always tell myself, I always promise myself I'm gonna get home and I'm gonna journal. And of course I never do. Yes. And so I've got pictures to try and piece together my days, but to your point, it's so hard to to go back and rewrite the story from your past.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

And now we have social media, so it it is easier. But the the picture you saw of me by the fax machine is pretty much the documentation.

Delegation, Time, And Building SOPs

SPEAKER_01 32:54

And I love that. I hope you have that framed and like hanging. I don't. Yes, you absolutely should. Your origin story. Um, you created a number of agencies after you sold your first one for 28 million. So many people sign non-competes. When they sell their business, they can't go on and continue to do what they used to do. Um, how were you able to continue to create agencies? Was it a carve out? Was there a time frame limitation? Did you sit on the sidelines? I know you had the clothing business for a while, so there was a time period where you weren't potentially building agencies, but what was that like for you?

SPEAKER_00 33:27

So, so we did respect our non-competes. And after, so after the first business, we started a couple of staffing adjacent businesses. So we had we had a job board that was actually part of an offshoot of the first business, so that was a carve out, so we kept that. And then we had a couple of um vendor management businesses in staffing, so that was not included in the non-compete. We started our second business really when the non-competes expired. And we still got sued. We actually, we actually it was Kate Force who sued us, and we actually settled with Lloyd's of London. Lloyds of London then wasn't going to pay out our so anyway. We ended up settling with Lloyds of London. We was favorable to to us. And then when I sold my last staffing agency, I that's when I started my clothing business. So I've always had non-competes and sat out. And then we'll retired for a while. I mean, I had three kids, and yeah, my baby one, right, my youngest one when we sold the first business. So yeah, it just took time off as well.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Yeah. Well, and I was gonna say, I feel like a lot of people, I a question I always have in my mind when I hear people who have exited, especially for multiple millions, like I always wonder why the drive to go back and build more business. Because inevitably, a majority of those people, it's just in their blood to go back and create more businesses or do more work. And I think it's a really it's a driving force for them. Do you feel like it's just in your DNA?

SPEAKER_00 34:48

You know, I'm gonna say I'm there was greed. There was greed. And the people that we were associated with after we sold our first business were like, well, that's not that's not enough money. You don't have, you know, F you money. And I mean, it was really, and we got really wrapped up in that. That's crazy. And we were living in Malibu, we moved here. We then we were in Paradise Valley, and you know, so we thought we'd move to Arizona and have this quiet, you know, cheap life. And we were like, all of a sudden our kids up were in private school here, and we're so it was, I would say we were very young too. We're at 33 and had a lot of money and got really wrapped up in in keeping up with the Joneses, that's crazy.

Final Mindset: Why Not You

SPEAKER_01 35:28

I like I like the FU money term. We I once took an Uber from the airport home in Phoenix, and my driver was a private uh pilot. And we were chit-chatting, and he was saying how the Uber is just a side hustle. He flies for a private family and only one family all the time. And he said they have they have hamburger money. And I was like, what's that? I've never heard that. I'd heard FU money before. And uh he was like, Oh yeah, they'll just fly to California for this burger that they like for dinner and come back. And I call it a hamburger money. I've never heard that. And so, like, as an inside joke now, my husband and I, whenever we're like, you know, see like a Rolls-Royce drive down the road, I'm like, burger money.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

That is great. That is great.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Yes. Rolls off the tongue a little bit easier. Um, for a business owner aspiring to grow their business into the millions, uh-huh. What advice would you give them in terms of the necessary components or determination in order to accomplish this goal? Is there something that besides hustle grit, the A-team, things like that? What could you tell someone who's aspiring to really grow and exit their business?

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Go step by step. Always look at what is the next step. So you have your vision, you know, if you're gonna want to go into the millions or whatever it is, and then instead of getting overwhelmed, because there are so many steps, just look at what is the next step and identify what are the questions that I need to ask next, what are the questions that need to be answered next. You don't have to know everything, it's just take it brick by brick.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Well, and I think that is such stage advice because the mountain is steep and it's really big and you can only get to the top one step at a time. So true. So I we you we use that all the time when we're hiking and we're we're gassed, you know, and it's like, okay, you you can just the next 20 steps get you a little bit further.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

So true. I did a hike with my I did um the the Tour du Mont Blanc, which is 110 miles with my my daughter in Europe two years ago. And you're right, because I would look up and I'd say, I'd say, are we gonna go up there? And of course we were. That was the only trail. It seems so far. And then I started saying, okay, just one step, one step, just the next step.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Well, and I was gonna say too, once you get to certain levels, like I'm I'm hearing in your story, right? You started from nothing, you wanted to get that first sale in the door, like systems, great, you need them, but just get it going first, right? And then once you started things getting rolling, you're implementing the systems, the processes, like the team. At some point you you hit a threshold and convert over into arguably a a very uh complicated and successful business. And I think for some people, getting to that stage, um it it's it's almost like they continually hit their own glass ceiling. I can't tell, I talk to people in the trades. And people in the trades, especially in Arizona, they are drowning in work. And it's the best type of success, right? But they're so drowning in it that they can't ever find the time to start doing the work that's necessary to get to the next stage. And so a lot of times we have those conversations when they come to me and they're like, hey, I would like to exit in the next five years. And I'm like, great, we gotta really carve out some time so that you can get these things in place. For someone who is struggling with time, whether key man or key woman syndrome, like, and I'm sure every business owner kind of hits that plateau at some point. What is like the very next thing that you would recommend? Like when you get to that point where you're like, I have no time, is it the team or is it the systems?

SPEAKER_00 39:13

It's well, first it's it's it's delicate, well, it's delegation. So, and you can delegate putting the systems together. So what I do, and I have I have a delegation identifier free tool. Look at, I would start with that. What is one thing? You know, if you list out everything that you do in a week, write it down. Write down everything that you do in a week, and then you can put it in a you put it in a um like a grid, okay? And then you identify the things that you're really good at and you love to do, things that you're good at don't like to do. And then, you know, the bad things, you know, is that and so the things that you're you're not good at don't like to do, or even not good at and like to do, those are things to delegate. So start. You can start small. I work with one of my clients is a lawyer, and he started out and he was so he was terrified to delegate. He even had a paralegal who was phenomenal and he was afraid to delegate to him. And one of the reasons was he'd say, Well, he's only 25. And then he also felt guilty for delegating. Once he understood, and I kept asking, Well, I was 27 when I started my first business. Like, just you know, it's okay. So once he started delegating, he really started getting used to it and embracing it and loving it. But just start with even one thing. What is one thing that you can take off your plate?

SPEAKER_01 40:33

I like that. Well, I feel like you kind of married the two answers, which is like it should, you should, you should hire someone that you could delegate to so you could put the system in place. Is that is that the accurate statement? I would say so.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

And also what if you're just starting out and you're at the point, because it's realistically a lot of people do start out and do everything that's a normal, that's kind of a normal beginning of a business. Treat everything like you're going to systematize it. Treat everything. So if I'm starting a business just by myself, I'll treat everything like okay, what is the process? And envision myself training somebody to do the work just right from the beginning so that things are as documented as possible.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Well, I was gonna say that resonates so much on my end too, because I always try and advise my clients, let's build the business with the end in mind, which it's so hard to do when you're just getting going or you're in your infancy. But it's so much easier to do that than it is to go back and implement the systems, put together the SOPs, fix the lack of contracts that you have in your business, and all of that. So 100%. Well, this has been a fantastic conversation. Um, I would love to continue this conversation another time. I think there's so much that you have to share. Is there anything else that you would like to talk about before we close our episode today?

SPEAKER_00 41:52

I just say go for it. If you have, if if you want to start a business or anything in life, just it's not that serious. It's just just go for it. I just I don't want to waste any precious day in life. And and if that's something that you're that you're driven to do, I'd say do it.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

I love that. And if you're lacking the motivation, go on Google and check out your life expectancy. Exactly. Well, thank you so much, Diane. It's Paloma. Thanks for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, please like, share, and tune in next week. In the world of business, not all deals are what they seem. Fortunes rise, empires crumble, all with the stroke of a pen. Mergers, acquisitions, hostile takeovers. Welcome to Mergers She Wrote, where we examine strategies and stories behind the biggest deals in business. Because in MA, the real risks are the ones you don't take.