Brandon Held - Life is Crazy

Episode 78: How A Teacher, Airman, And Hooper Rebuilt His Life And Voice with Chaz Douglas

• Brandon Held • Season 3 • Episode 78

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We trace Chaz’s path from a steady Michigan childhood and hard-earned hoops confidence to Eastern Michigan, the Air Force Reserve, and a school leadership career. The heart of the story lands on a painful relationship that challenged his values and became the catalyst for writing, podcasting, and patient growth.

• nuclear family, church roots, and early hoops grind
• camps, coaching, and confidence built through reps
• Eastern Michigan, lifting, and choosing elementary education
• first teaching role in Raleigh and financial strain
• Air Force Reserve enlistment to fund a master’s degree
• deployment to Kuwait and landing a Detroit school job
• workplace romance, red flags, and moral conflict
• confrontation, toxicity, and rebuilding identity after the breakup
• dating with intention and lessons captured in his book
• GOAT debate, all-time starting five, and the value of defense

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SPEAKER_01:

Today I was on his podcast before, and I really enjoyed it. We had a great time talking about my life and sports and all that. And I wanted to turn around and do him the same favor. I wanted to discuss Chad's life and everything he's gone through and what brought him into podcasting. And maybe we'll talk a little sports at the end as well. So, how are you doing today, Chaz?

SPEAKER_00:

I'm doing pretty good, Brandon. Man, thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, of course, man. Had a good time on your podcast. Let's tell everyone just a little bit about who you are, what you're about.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'm um Chaz Douglas from Saginaw, Michigan. Uh went to college uh to become uh an educator, so I was a teacher for a few years, and uh I went on to the Air Force so I can go back to school because I wanted to get my uh educational leadership degree, so I did went to Air Force, went through, uh got my, you know, the Air Force actually paid for my my master's, so that was cool. Um I was I taught north in North Carolina for five and a half years, got deployed to Kuwait um for six months. That was uh January 16, moved back to Michigan, and I've been working as a you know school leader for what nine years now, and uh wrote a coup wrote a few books during that time, and you know, now I'm uh been podcasting for what two uh it's gonna be two years in October now.

SPEAKER_01:

Nice. We'll break all that down. I have so many things I want to ask you, but I don't want to put the cart before the horse. So, like we do here on Life is Crazy, we go through your whole life story, we start from the beginning, from the jump, because childhood is an important part of who we become as men. And so tell everyone about your childhood and what life was like growing up there in Michigan.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, it you know, I I had pretty uh a pretty normal childhood, I would say. Like it was, you know, nuclear family. I had both parents, my um, mom and dad, Ralph and Harriet Douglas. Um, they were married, and I had two si, you know, I have two siblings. I'm the middle, uh middle son, I'm the only son. And so I, you know, I was raised with my my two sisters and um, you know, went to church, went to church every, you know, every Sunday. My mom uh and dad had us in Sunday school, sang in the choir. I ushered. Um, so it was it wasn't any, I wouldn't say it will it wasn't any like uh like struggle or any any type of trauma um you know growing up. I I think the only thing that was like a struggle um for me was like I I was into basketball. I started playing basketball when I was seven years old, and I just wanted to be good. You know, we talked about like Michael Jordan um on my on our pod on my podcast, and like that was one of my favorite players. Michael Jordan, I love Kobe, I love Iverson. Um being in Michigan, Isaiah Thomas was uh was one of one of the guys that I really looked up to, even though I didn't really get to see him play, you know, fit, you know, uh on TV, but you know, I is I'm gonna age myself, date myself. You know, I watched a lot of VHS tapes and watched Isaiah and and um so that was kind of like the struggle with that was you know, when you start playing, like you do have those bumps and bruises because it wasn't, you know, I was a smaller guard, so it wasn't like I just came and was good initially, you know, right off the jump. It took me some time and uh, you know, we be uh I'll be in like different tournaments. I was in this tournament with my with a a few of my best friends called the Gus Macker, and it was like a street, it was like a three-on-three tournament, and we got beat every game. And it was one of those things where like even though I was struggling, I also wanted to get better. It wasn't one of those things where like this happened, you know, I'm getting beat, and I'm gonna quit. Like it kind of made me want to do it more.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so um that was that was kind of like that was, you know, that was my goal was to to get better. And it took, you know, took several years to, you know, like I I was going through um, you know, different trainers, uh, or I should say one trainer. Um my my he he was actually I got introduced to him uh in my church. Um and he was like kind of like a ball handling trainer, but he did, he worked with guards, and so that kind of helped me to get better. Um and so like like I said for years, uh you know, I was just going through the process of trying to get better, and then you just and during that time, like you are getting beat a lot, or you are getting the guys getting the best of you just because it you know, they've been playing for three, four years more than you, and then you just trying to learn a game. So um my dad brought a basketball, you know, rim and and we put it in our driveway, so I was able to, you know, start playing more and more. And um, so it was it wasn't until like I think the seventh grade is when I started and and actually the the the awesome part was um a lot of the guys um that were better than me, they didn't have the grades to play basketball. And so for the schools team, um, because we played recreation, but anybody can play recreation, but you know, as far as you it wasn't any like uh grade, you know, grade point average that you had to have. And so um during that time, like a lot of guys didn't make the team because they weren't eligible. And then it was one of those things where because you're there, then that's when you get the reps. And so it was like the I remember the first game of the season, we were playing against our rivalry. And up until this point, Brandon, like I like I said, I I scored a couple points um in a game, but it was like this particular game, and it it wasn't that much that changed from that year to the next year, but this particular game, I scored like 10 points in a row, which was the most I've ever scored at a, you know, in a game before. Like, and it was and then it was like the crowd was like really round, and um, it was it was just a great feeling. And so after that, it was just one of those things where you know, like I was getting the reps, and that year, I think I caught up to the guy, the guys that were better than me. And then by the by my eighth grade year, where they like they still just weren't eligible to play. And by that time, like I was going to camps, and like a lot of the guys who was better than me, like in my elementary years, like I didn't really have a problem with them, you know, in my in in eighth grade. Like, I was just a lot better than them. And then like I could just and then confidence is big, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, like I got I gained my confidence and and consistency and hard work, which you doing those as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I end up, you know, going to you know, some camps and just learning just fundamentals, getting getting um confidence from them, getting coaching from them. Um and then I'm I'm a hard worker, and I'm uh, you know, I'm coachable. So if somebody sees something that I need to work on, I do it. Uh I actually uh was able to like um in the camp in the center, I went to the Central Michigan camp in 2000, which was I was 13. I ended up meeting a guy, his name is uh Eric Divendorf. He ended up playing at Syracuse. Uh he's from Bay, you know, he was living in Bay City, and you know, he was an all-American, uh, high school, McDonald's all-American. Like he was one of the best players in the country. So that was like after then, it was like everything went uphill from uh with me playing basketball. I actually was a pretty good player at that time.

SPEAKER_01:

That's cool. It's a great story of it wasn't something that came natural to you. So hard work and commitment and being consistent allowed you to get where you were trying to go. And that's cool that you didn't have a childhood that you would call a struggle or anything traumatic. It those are great stories. Uh and hopefully we can get to a point in life where everyone can say that. But but sadly, a lot of people, myself included, grew up in uh difficult childhoods. Um so all right. So you were balling and things were going pretty good. Uh let's just skip on through to you graduate high school. Where does that take you? Where do you go from there?

SPEAKER_00:

I went to Eastern Michigan uh after high school. Um, it was two places I was thinking about going was Alabama AM and then Eastern Michigan uh University in Ypsilanti. And uh I didn't go to Alabama just because when I went there, like we drove, me and my mom drove. My dad said, Hey, I want you to see how far you are from home. And so we drove down there, you know, it was 12, 13, 14 hours. And then, you know, the the campus was like really small, really slow. And I was like, this is too far from me to be away from home right now. Um, so I ended up going to Eastern Michigan and Ypsilanti, which was uh, it was different because a lot of a lot of people from Detroit that was that were there, and they're kind of like almost like the opposite of me, as far as like into fashion, partying. Like I wasn't any, you know, I was, you know, my what I think is a good time is like I love going to the gym or going playing basketball or doing something like that. I wasn't a party partier or like I wasn't in the fashion. And so I kind of found myself being kind of like an outsider to a certain extent. Uh, you know, I had a I had a couple friends from high school that came on to Eastern uh with me, so that kind of made it feel a little at home and I could be somewhere myself, but it was kind of an adjustment for me going to a school like that just because like I'm not yeah, that was like the total opposite of me. And not that I got picked on or anything like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not that I got picked on or anything, but it was just like you just kind of feel like you kind of know that you're an outsider, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01:

So you wouldn't fit in. You went on a basketball scholarship?

SPEAKER_00:

No, no, I just went because um I just went because you know that was a good school for my my major, which was uh elementary education.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, and so yeah, talk about that. How did you know you wanted to do elementary education?

SPEAKER_00:

I knew that like I I had a teacher my ninth grade year, and he was just really cool. You know, I really liked him. His name was Mr. Pruitt. I really liked him, and he really inspired me, encouraged me. I knew I feel like at that time I was like, well, I probably can't encourage or I can't maybe not inspire someone um this 15, 16, 17, 18, but maybe I can do that with somebody that's you know seven, eight, nine, ten. And so, and then I like kids, you know, I I I like to present, I like teaching. So um I I that's what made me want to go into to education. I feel like I could inspire someone, and that I wanted to inspire like a younger person.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's cool. So, did you play intramural sports?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. I would I play I played a little bit of intramural basketball, and then I when I got to college, that's when I really got into like lifting weights more. Like I, you know, I had weightlifting, you know, we had weightlifting in high school, but when I started, when I was in college, like I was, that's when I really started getting into it. I'm like, man, this power feels good. Like when you like, I mean, it feels good to work out, you know what I mean? So that's what that's what kind of made me, and then I saw that I would get stronger, you know, and I wasn't like lifting 300 pounds or anything like that, but like every, you know, once you do it, like the body is a very complex and very uh it's very unique, you know, entity. Um, because you do after, you know, you get stronger, you get faster, you or you are your endurance builds up. So I was just like pushing that when I, you know, when I got to college, I'm like, man, this is pretty cool that I can lift this and then okay, let me do this many reps now. Let me do this, let me, you know, put this amount of weight on now. So it was just cool to be able to, because I wasn't, like I said, I wasn't going to parties, I didn't have money, like, you know, I didn't have a job or anything like that. Jim was free.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I gotta say that I've always been an athlete, and I did get into a weightlifting when I was about 25, was when I started lifting weights. And I've always felt sorry for people who aren't into some type of sports or weightlifting or athletics because they just really don't understand what they're missing out of a lot of it. Yeah, it does so much for you, not even just as far as confidence and stuff like that, but it's uh biologically and physiologically so great for your brain and your body. It's life changing, it's game-changing for your life. And I really feel bad for people that just don't ever find the desire to even want to try it or to even want to do it because it's it's so incredible.

SPEAKER_00:

And like you said, at least try, you know what I mean? Because it's some it's some type of active physical activity that you can do that you might you'll probably enjoy. You know what I mean? Like I just, you know, I because I know some people will say, I do not like working out. And it's like, well, you gotta try something that you probably would like to do. Like I I love to lift weights, I love to, you know, I don't run like I used to. You know, I used to run a lot, you know, especially being in the Air Force. I used to run a lot. Then I do more like biking and uh what do you, you know, like the stairmaster and things as far as cardio or um junk roping and agility ladder now, but yeah, it's it's you know, I enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01:

Bro, when I was in the gym, I would on my day, I had a schedule. I was a mental cop in Minot, North Dakota, which sucked, by the way. And but my schedule was three days on, completely on, 24-7 stayed at the site for three days, and then four days off. And those four days off, I would play ball for 12 hours at the gym. I would just go to the gym and ball all day. And when you were talking about getting better, I was a late bloomer in sports and athletics. And a lot of that had to do with where I came from, right? So where I came from in my small town in Ohio with 100 students my age, maybe 50 dudes or less my age, right? The competition was still fair. And so in my age group where I was from, I was pretty good. I was probably one of the best, right? And then I joined the Air Force, and uh obviously that's a conglomerate of people from all over. And then I get to the gym and I start playing ball, and I compared to most of these people, right? But that's the only way to get better, right? You gotta go out there and you gotta keep going and you gotta keep at it. And I definitely did that. I was super consistent in playing ball as much as I possibly could to the point to where obviously you can see we're on camera. I'm as white can be on a ball. When I first got there, the brothers didn't want to play with me. They didn't want to run their team. Yeah, they didn't want me on their team. I wasn't good enough. And I get it, I got it. I wasn't comparatively, but I just kept trying and turning and getting better and getting better. And I even did apply a metric on six foot one, so I got myself to where I could dunk. Um I just completely just worked so hard because I wanted to prove that I could ball and I I reached a point where everyone wanted to be on my team. Yeah, so it it was pretty gratifying and satisfying to make those uh adjustments to be better and make my game much. They used to call me Steve Kerr because this was back in the 90s and the early 2000s. Oh, okay. And I took that moniker with pride. Today I'd want to be called Steph Curry, whatever.

SPEAKER_00:

I I mean, Steve Kerr, I mean, like that, he was a great shooter. And like you said, especially during that time in high school, that's what you know, when we did it, when we had our conditions, that's what the varsity coach had us doing was the playometrics. So that you know, that that was that's a good, you know, good workout. Get you get you jumping out the gym, man.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, man. No, it increased my vertical probably eight to ten inches.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I went from someone who probably was fingernail below the rim to getting my wrist over the rim. Yeah, it's it made a big difference in my not only my jumping ability, but my side-to-side quickness and all that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So that's cool. So you get through college, you get your degree, obviously, somewhere along the way you uh join the Air Force. I'm not hearing much about a romantic life either.

SPEAKER_00:

So no, not not as not at not at that time. That comes later. Okay. As far as like, you know, something serious, but not not not at that time. Like I was in college, like it was uh, I actually wrote a book. It's called uh Finding My Wife. And it it it starts, it starts. I started praying and started wanting to be married after I got after I graduated from um college.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Even though, even though like I was young, you know, I I probably I'm glad I didn't get married at that time because I, you know, it was so much that I needed to do as a man.

SPEAKER_01:

But we don't know that at that time, right? Like we feel grown, we feel ready, we want what adults do. And so it doesn't make sense to us at that time to actually say, Oh, I'm not ready for this.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. No, I I was I was interested, you know, I say like in college, just because I didn't have, you know, like I didn't have money, I didn't have the clothes or anything like that. I didn't like I wasn't dating that I didn't date that much in in college. It wasn't until like that last year where it was a a young lady that I was uh I that's where I started the book at.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

I started a book at my last year of college. And you know, we we it just it just didn't, you know, we liked each other, but it was at this, it was at different times. So she initially liked me. I wasn't really interested in her. Then when I was about to leave, then I was you know interested in her and she wasn't interested in me. So um it was it was that was that was interesting. So we we we joke about it now because we're still friends. Okay. You know, we're still friends. So I actually started my the book starts off in college or my that last year in college when I met uh the young lady.

SPEAKER_01:

Let's go where let's go where your life took you after college. Where did you go? What did you do?

SPEAKER_00:

I went to North Carolina. I was in Riley, North Carolina. I got a teaching job like at the last hour. Like I was applying for jobs for months. I like that was actually a job to like I was spending like five, six hours in the library, like getting just applying for jobs. And so and I think I got a few interviews and um well yeah, I got a few interviews, and then it wasn't until uh I I got an interview in North Carolina where I actually got the job. I mean where I ended up working. Uh I I interviewed there, I didn't get the job, and then I called back and I said, you know, I think uh the lady that was in that position, she we she would uh ended up having a baby. And so they had a you know open position. And that was a first grade position, which uh that was a lot younger than what I was expecting. Um and I mean working out, you know what I mean? Like it would it, you know, I moved there in August of 2010, and I stayed, you know, and and I uh was there. That was a challenge, that was a challenge because like nobody I didn't know anybody there.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um it was so it was and I'm used to being, you know, I even when I was, you know, I'm an hour and a half away, hour and fifteen minutes away from where my parents from where I was, you know, raised, born and raised. And so going to Riley, I couldn't just go back, you know, anytime I had to, you know, go go back on breaks like Christmas or uh the summer. And um that summer, it like I said, it I I ended up getting better. Like it, you know, I I I I learned about the craft as far as teaching, but I also know that I didn't want to teach for any long periods of time. That's why I went. I was like, I gotta I can't see myself being in the classroom for ye, you know, for a long period for several years. And then like North Carolina was one of the lowest paying states. And so I'm like, I can't, I can't, I can't do this. You know what I mean? Like as far as I just won't be able to make enough money. And so um my cousin uh Talio, he was in the uh Marines and then he went to the army. And I I said, you know, I was just kind of meditating, like, what can I do? Because I need to, I one, I gotta make more money. I don't have enough money. And then like I wanna I don't wanna be in the classroom. I I knew I didn't want to do that. He said, I mean, you should join the Air Force um reserves. He was like, Air Force is good, you know, that would be a good fit for you as far as the quality of life. They, you know, they they help with, you know, is it might be a family. Um it's better than he said it will fit you better than any other branch of what you what you're looking to do. And so um I think that was like the summer of 2011. So uh 2012, I ended up getting all my all my stuff together. Um and then I was able to enlist February of 2012. And that's and then at that time they had what what they call a training flight. So you before you go to basic training, you go to your base, the base that you would you did your reserves, and you know, you would do your once a month uh station, the station you would be at, and they would train you on like what what to expect during basic training. So like Air Force history, you know, PT, you know, just the you know, ranking, you know, just the the you know, the stuff that you would you would need to know before basic training. And so then I was when I started actually making more, you know, because I got paid to do that. And um, because I mean it was rough, branding, for, you know, like as far as for men, like I wasn't, like I said, I wasn't getting paid, you know, I wasn't getting making a lot of money. And like when I moved down there, my parents helped me as far as like, you know, doing a deposit for the apartment, buying furniture, buying beds and stuff like TV, all that. They they set everything up because I didn't I didn't have that much money from my, you know, I had a like a little part-time job in college, um, but it wasn't anything that I could move with. And so it was it was kind of rough for, you know, maybe about five or six months. Not that I couldn't um that I couldn't pay for anything or I was in a hole, but it was just like I it was rough as far as you know, I couldn't do any, like it, nothing could break down. Like my car wouldn't be able to break, you know, I couldn't afford to fix my car, you know, or anything like that. So um I had I was living, I was staying or sleeping on a like a thrift store bed. Um, and it was, I mean, it was rough, you know what I mean? Like my I'm waking up so my back is hurting, and you know what I mean? Like it was just like I this I it so that was kind of motivation, like I gotta do something because I can't live, I can't live like this. You know what I mean? I can't and then I'm thinking about, hey, I gotta I wanna have a family, and I can't have a I can't have a family or a wife and I'm lit, you know, I'm not making enough money. So when I did the Air Force, that was that was one of the best decisions I made. Not because, you know, it gave me an opportunity to go back to college, but it also I got a little money to do it as well. I think it was like maybe like a brotherhood, you know, like I I didn't ra I wasn't raised with brothers or anything. Um so maybe just like that camaraderie with the with the guys. Um like that was that was cool. You know, that was cool that, you know, and even with my my basic training guys and even the guys that you know I was you know stationed with. So just having some, you know, some you know, pretty strong guys that you could uh lean on, and you know, they they can lean on you as well.

SPEAKER_01:

So it also shaped you as a person, like it gave you parts of your personality, right, that you probably didn't have before.

SPEAKER_00:

I I was a I was grown when I got into the Air Force. So it was like some of that stuff was already, it just maybe it just enhanced, it just kind of enhanced it as far as like punctuality. I was 25 when I when I um got into the Air Force because it was like, you know, like I not that I was who I am at 25, but it was like a lot, it didn't really teach me that much, you know, because some of the stuff like that was just who I am, like just playing basketball, like I was a cat, I was a captain of my uh um of my team. So coaches on me as far as being, hey, you need to be here before everybody else, you know what I mean? So like I was I'm I was a punctual person before that. I worked hard before I went into the the Air Force, so it was kind of like it just enhanced with it, you know, it just like showed you this is why you needed to do it.

SPEAKER_01:

So different than me. I was 17, lazy as hell. Everything was a joke, nothing was serious. I didn't perform well in school, I didn't try at school, so it was a real wake-up call for me joining the Air Force. It completely changed me, but completely different. I understand your circumstances because I joined the army at 29, and I can't really say I got anything out of being in the army.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think it's an exact thing, and then Brandon, I was going in, but like I gotta do this because I need to, you know, make my life better. Yeah. So it was like I had a I had a different, you know, like outlook or perspective going into the Air Force because I'm like, okay, I gotta get my master's, I gotta prepare for my family, and this is uh one of the ways I'm gonna do this. So I had, you know, it was like a different perspective than some of the guys that were, like you said, 17, 18 years old.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and that's got a different that was why I joined the army. I got my MBA while I was in the army, so that was what I had used the army for as well was to get my master's degree. So I totally understand that part of it. All right. So let's get into you meet someone, you fall in love, you get married. Talk about that.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, so I got deployed in 2016, January 16, and I really didn't, I didn't want to get deployed. Like some people want to get deployed because they know that they're gonna make a lot of money. Yeah. Or they're gonna save a lot of money, which which was good. Like that was a a a pro of being deployed. But it was also the same year as I graduated from to get my master's. So I I was trying to look for jobs. I'm like, oh man, I'm not gonna get anything. So it I feel like my life was being put on hold, and I was like, I'm not about to, I'm not going to find my wife deployed. So it was kind of like, you know, that kind of put me in a position where, you know, like I I I'm just stuck. So I ended up um getting a job. I was in North Carolina, I ended up getting a job in Michigan while I was in co in Kuwait. Like I was on the this is was Skype. Yeah, it was Skype when I I interviewed Skype. So I ended up um getting a job in Detroit, Michigan. It was a school in Detroit. And so I did meet, and you know, like I said, I've been praying and wanting to be married for some years now, like uh yeah, about five or six years. I wanted, you know, wanted to get have a serious relationship. And so I still want this, and I ended up meeting a uh an older, well, she, you know, she wasn't old, but she was older than me. Uh, because I'm 29, she was 36. And real beautiful, beautiful woman. Um, and this is where life's get life gets crazy for me.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

It was like a it was like a three, it was like a two and a half, three year situation where like, you know, like my life was like pretty peaceful and quiet when I met this woman. It just it just and and I put that on me because I I shouldn't have been in a rel in that relationship. And it it really started off as she was real beautiful. I wanted to be her, you know, just be friends with her. I talk about this in my books. I don't want to date anybody I work with, because I work with I work with this woman. And so what ended up happening, what ended up the situation why I shouldn't have, you know, been with her is like she was she was married, you know what I mean? Um so that was a red flag, you know, somebody just married, you shouldn't be with somebody's married. But at the at the same time, but I say this, I didn't jump into it like um, oh man, I want to be with this married woman. It it didn't it it wasn't like that. It kind of started off as we were just friends. You know, we just talk at work and she was funny, beautiful, things like that. But I didn't really I'm like, you know, I I'm raised Christian, so you know, I know that that's she's off limits. So it went from it was like slowly uh went from, hey, we're we're we're just work friends to where we um you know speaking or communicating on Facebook or on you know social media, and then it became where we're texting, and so it was like slowly becoming um, you know, like it was just inappropriate. And so she was like, Well, you know, we I'm not really me and my husband not really having, you know, we're not we don't have the best relationship or you know, we're having issues, whatever like that. And so um it ended up, you know, we were just you know, we ended up talking, and I think I remember she came, she wanted to come by. I'm like, no, I don't want you to come by. You know what I mean? Like this is I don't feel comfortable you coming by. She kept pressing that when she came by, and I'm like, hey, I don't really feel comfortable with us being friends, but we just it just kept being being that way. And um we, you know, I think we we ended up uh she eventually got a divorce, but before that, you know, like it was, you know, it was the issue where um her husband came up to the job, you know, and I didn't know he, you know, he I got this number. I this call kept calling his number kept calling me. I'm like, who, you know, I don't know who this is. And so she was like, it looks like that's my husband's number. Obviously, he probably got my number because they probably on the same plan or something. You know what I mean? Probably checked the phone record. Yeah, yeah. He he checked the the record. So um I didn't answer the phone. And at this point, it wasn't we we weren't in a relationship at this time, or we weren't doing anything that it wasn't anything physical at this time, it was just more mostly us just talking. But is that that's the way we were talking, it was like it wasn't inappropriate because we were talking about sex or anything like that. It was inappropriate because it was like I'm talking to you as if you're single.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so um he ended up coming to the school. He ended up coming, yeah, and and I'm and it's my first year there, so I'm like, oh man. So I remember, I remember this like it was yesterday. And so she comes to my office, and she's outside my, you know, like at the it was one of those uh office, the doors where it has a window, you know, where you can see the person. So she's she does so I see her, and then I open her door. I'm glad I didn't say anything crazy, and then he's on the side right here. And I'm like, and I know who he is, because you know, I I just you know, I I know her, you know, we're on Facebook and things like that. So we end up talking. He wasn't like a violent guy or angry or anything like that. He was just like, I want you to see my face, I want you to know, and I'm I'm so upset with myself too, because I'm like, one, this is not how I was raised, but I'm upset because it's like I'm wrong in this. You know, I mean, this looks bad for me. Yeah, and so he was like, hey, I just wanted to let you know, hey, we having issues, but you need to stay out of this. You know what I mean? You don't know what's going on with her, you know, you're not the first person that I've had to first guy I had to talk to about this. And that kind of stood out to me because I'm like, I didn't, I didn't really think about it, you know, at the time. Like, I'm you know, like, who else, like, is this a pattern of you doing this? So I told him, like, hey, I'll leave, you know, I'm I'm done. Cause I, you know, like I that that could have been bad.

SPEAKER_01:

Not only that, you don't owe him anything, she's the one that owes him. She's the one that needs to be getting checked. And if yeah, if he can't check her, then he needs to walk away from her. But trying to go track down every dude she's talking to and all that, that's ridiculous. That's dumb, in my opinion. So we but go on.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so we ended up, you know, like I said, it would it wasn't uh it didn't get violent, we weren't yelling or anything like that. I just kind of listened. I wanted him to I was listening so he could just leave, you know what I mean? So we could just, you know, I wasn't trying to engage in too much of it because and so I was like, okay, I won't talk to her and you know, I'll leave that line. I'm like, okay, I got off with that one. And so, you know, she was a little, you know, she had other male friends, and I and I, you know, she I say she had a great personality, she was very charismatic, and it was it was just hard to like I I think we stopped, you know, communicating outside of work for maybe like a week or two, and then it just we just started back doing it again, you know, start communicating again. And then things got physical, you know, where we ended up you know having like a sexual relationship. And then after that, it was just like um it was just hard to, you know, like I I was just in in this in this place where I don't know how to, you know, it was I was just I was just out there, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01:

Like I was no, so let me let me help you because I went through the exact same thing, right? Okay, yeah, hell no, exactly. No, I'm just gonna help you try to explain it. It's basically you have this person that you're connecting with really, really well in a way possibly you never have with anyone else. And and you can't fight that connection, but at the same time, you have a brain, and your brain tells you, well, if I'm gonna do this to him, I could do it to me too. And I can never trust her because that it's already made clear what her character is and who she is. So you got this battle going inside of you of this connection that you feel that you have with this person, and then the side of you that says that is it's smart because it's a trustworthy person that I can build something with. I went through the exact same thing, man. So yeah, so I know what you're going through.

SPEAKER_00:

You you summed it up perfectly. It was because it would she was so cool to be around. Like we had a lot of a lot of things in common, you know, as far as movies and you know, TV shows, and she was funny, like I like to laugh, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

We go to gym and she was beautiful, like you said. And she was beautiful, and we're men, we're visual creatures, and what if someone's beautiful, we're sucked in right away, and then you put all that stuff on top of it that you just added. It's not like she was beautiful and then she was a bitch and you couldn't stop around her, yeah. She is a beautiful woman and you loved being around her, like we're helpless at that point, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And and and then, you know, the the more I it it it became very toxic, and it was an unhealthy relationship because you know, I think you know, what was going on, she would think I'm with other women, she would always be sure, like, you know, she was she's a cheater, so of course she's gonna be insecure and so it was it was it was like that. So I'm I'm always it was like we were always going at it about something. If it was, you know what I mean, like it, you know, she had she had two kids, and she like I said, she eventually got divorced, and then that's when we kind of I you know brought around my my my parents and my family, everything like that. Um, but it was just like an unhealthy relationship, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01:

Like she just you know dude, we couldn't have been through a more identical thing. I'm telling you. I I'm telling you, I saw this girl. The difference might be the location you were teaching. I was in college. I saw this girl at the gym every day in college, and I was so enamored with her. She was so beautiful and so hot. And all my friends uh thought the same thing, but she always kept to herself, didn't talk to anyone, and then one day I finally approached her. She actually rejected me when I initially approached her, but I don't take rejection well. So after I left, and a few minutes later, I went back to her and approached her again. And we ended up talking the whole thing. She was married in a bad place, had two kids, the whole thing. It was a situation that I got myself into that I couldn't pull myself out of because I just loved being with her and loved being around her so much, and I was so attracted to her that physically I couldn't remove myself, but mentally I always felt like there was something wrong because of the way it started, and I could never trust her and all those things. We could not have been in a more identical situation.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'm I'm and and what like I said, it and I'm I'm trying to, you know, I'm dealing with the the morality of the thing, you know, of the relationship just because I'm like, I go to church every, you know, like that's sin, you know, that I go to church every Sunday. I'm active in church, and and so like I had to battle my spirit and my flesh or my spirit and my the natural because I just it was hard for me to stop doing it with her. Um and it, you know, like I said, it was it was it was it was it was a lot. Like I uh, you know, I I feel like I was always trying to please her. Um and it was hard for me to, you know, like I feel like I lost, I I eventually lost started losing myself. You know what I mean? Like a lot of people, um, some of my friends, you know, some of the people um would tell me like when I when things ended, like I can see you being yourself. Like I wasn't myself as far as like uh, you know, I'm pretty positive. Um, you know, I I started getting a lot of hurt traits as far as like being paranoid, being negative, being, you know, um being kind of toxic myself. You know what I mean? Like I I wasn't having good working relationships with my with my colleagues, and some of that it was because of because of being around her, you know, because she had that. You know, she didn't have good relationships with people, so it was like I gotta, you know, I can't be close and close with, you know, I can't, I gotta be, you know, against them as well. You know, that that's that's how I felt, you know, if I wasn't, you know, if I wasn't um I'm on this side.

SPEAKER_01:

Did you end up marrying her? Like what happened?

SPEAKER_00:

No, no, we what ended up happening was which like I had a when we had a pregnancy scare, which that, oh man, I was sick. She said she was about to, you know, I she was like, I'm late. I'm like, oh man, I can't. I can't. Just because exactly what you said, like, I can't be, I can't have a kid with you because I don't trust you. Like, I gotta, I'll be with you forever. I gotta be connected with you forever. But if I got a kid with you, and I'm like, I'm gonna tell my parents, this is I'm embarrassed. And up a week a a week later, she was like, I gotta, you know, I gotta um, you know, have my period or whatever. So um what ended up happening was she ended up like being with, you know, she said, Hey, I met another guy, and which I know that she was talking to him, or at least initially, uh, talking to him while we were together, you know. Um, and so uh I remember it was just we went out and it was just this this day was off. Like she just it was, you know, it was just off for me with her. Like she didn't want me to buy any, you know, buy her food or anything, you know, which I usually buy. She didn't want me to do that, and she just was she just seen off. And so when I'm driving home, she uh texts me like, hey, you know what, I don't think, you know, like you because I knew I didn't want to marry her. She was like, I think, you know, I f I want to, you know, be with this other guy. You know, you don't want to marry me. So I'm like, Yeah, well, you're right. You know what I mean? Like, so we end up um, she ended up kind of, you know, breaking it off through text on that drive, which I was had a lot of emotion because like I felt like, okay, I felt a weight lifted, but I also I'm gonna miss her too, because like since I've been in Michigan, all I knew was her.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, as far as spending a lot of time with her. But I I I got good sleep that night just because I feel like I was like I didn't have to put up with any of the the drama that she that came with her because it was something always it was a lot of drama with her and co-workers and her parents or family or friends and things like that. And I got c I kind of got caught up in that. And so she she broke it off, and um that was like nine, yeah, that was like 2019. And so during the pandemic, I ended up finding out, um, so I you know, I'm dating um this woman that knows that knows us all, you know, knows uh, or not dating, we went out. That knows both of like she knew what was going on because she knew both people. And so she was like, Yeah, did you know that she, you know, he was uh the woman I was with, you know, she's dating, you know, I just say his name Jason. His name Jason in the book. I'm like, no, I didn't know that. I was like, I asked her that. Because, you know, I like I one day I saw her like liking a lot of the guy's pictures and stuff. I'm like, what's up with you and Jason? Like, what's what's going on with y'all? Like, are y'all together? She was like, No, are you reading too much into it? And um, now I'm not with him, or something like that. And so when she when this woman told me, I'm like, why did she lie about it? I mean, I just asked her. We weren't even together at the time, and um, you know, I I felt because I was pretty cool with Jason, you know. I mean, I wouldn't say we were friends, but uh ended up she ended up being with him, which kind of goes back to what you said. You with a person you just really can't trust.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, that's an ugly situation. All right, we're getting close to an hour here. So, where's life at for you right now? How's life going for you?

SPEAKER_00:

Still, still dating, still looking. I end up, like I said, I wrote a book about that's I w it's more detail in the book. It's called Finding My Wife, Lessons Learned and Dating. So it goes into that and what comes uh what came after her and some of the relationships that I was with. But um, this I'll say this, I hadn't some of the women after her, I just didn't have a piece about, and so uh I didn't feel like I could marry them just because I didn't really have one, I didn't have a piece, and I just didn't see myself with them um for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_01:

So um you're a good dude, you gotta find yourself a good woman who has high moral value, doesn't lie, doesn't deceive all those things because that might work for someone who also lies and deceives, right? So you're just treating each other the same way. But when you're a good person and you're with someone like that, it's just poison for you.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I I I'm I'm patient, you know. Like I said, I I go on dating apps or meet, you know, women at church or at the gym or something like that, but there's nothing that has come up, which I'm I'm not gonna force it, you know. I mean, like I've I've tried that before and it doesn't work, so no, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Stay patient, let the right person fall into place and you'll be just fine. You just have to make sure you're not filling that because if that space is filled and it's filled with the wrong person, you're not gonna give the right person a chance. So you gotta keep kicking the wrong people out. All right, so let's talk ball real quick. Yeah, yeah. What you got? I already know the answer, but uh who's the GOAT?

SPEAKER_00:

I gotta it gotta be Jordan, man. Jordan six for six, ten scoring titles. Uh was it you he got all these. I I think it's like 11 or 12 uh first team all NBA defensive player year. He he's the GOAT, man. He got a great, I mean, one on all levels. He's a goat for me.

SPEAKER_01:

I couldn't agree with you more and forget statistics, right? Because people, yeah, people will argue you to death into the ground based on statistics. Uh let's just talk about uh watching someone on a basketball court and how much they just uh controlled the game and dominated both offensively and defensively, like you said. There's never been anyone like him, and I don't think in my lifetime there will ever be anyone like him again who just dominated the basketball court like that. So he's totally a goal. Who's the second best player of all time, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_00:

I gotta go with I'm gonna go with LeBron after after Joy.

SPEAKER_01:

Really? So you think LeBron is better than Kobe?

SPEAKER_00:

I think LeBron is better than Kobe. And I love Kobe. I I love Kobe too, but I think LeBron is better than Kobe just because um I think he did more with less.

SPEAKER_01:

As far as LeBron, he's got everything, dude. He's big, he's strong, he's got everything.

SPEAKER_00:

He's but that's what that's why that's why that's why I go with LeBron. And I think some of that is is it is his physical, his physicality.

SPEAKER_01:

Um man, I just can't stand his personality. And I'm from Ohio, and you from Ohio, yeah. I want to love LeBron. Like when he was young and they were talking about him being the next great thing, I was all about it. But his personality, I just can't stand him, dude. I cannot stand him.

SPEAKER_00:

I say this, I don't like, and I never, you know, I never condone the passive aggressive. I don't, I don't like that attitude at all. All right. I feel I feel like, hey, if you if you if say it or don't say it, don't throw stuff out there. Like I don't like when LeBron does that. Like, if you if you want somebody, you know, like just be 10 toes down on whatever it stands, you know, do it with your chest.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So if you if you like something or if you don't like something, either say it or don't say it.

SPEAKER_01:

Because if you're not doing that, you're not real. That means you're fake, and I don't like fake people. All right, last question before we get out of here. You get all players ever in NBA history, from current to whenever, who's your starting five?

SPEAKER_00:

Can I just put them in different positions? Like the best five I get I give you.

SPEAKER_01:

No, yeah, you gotta give me a you gotta give me a point guard, a shooting guard. You gotta go, you gotta give me a five.

SPEAKER_00:

I go with Magic Johnson, point guard, Jordan uh my shooting guard, LeBron small forward, um, Tim Duncan is my power forward, and I'm gonna go with Kareem Abdul Jabbar, my center.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh man, I think I could beat your team. Who did you got? I'm gonna put Steph Curry at point guard, and he's gonna outscore tragic Johnson all day long. Okay, and then you we gotta clone Mike, so Mike's gonna have to play and D up Mike because that is you know who he is. And then I'm gonna put Larry Bird at the three, and then I'm gonna put Kevin Garnett at the four, and then I'm gonna go with the Shaq Diesel at the five.

SPEAKER_00:

You you you know what? I can't be mad at that because I I was I was conflicted about KG and and Tim Duncan, and then I was conflicted about Kareem and Shaq too.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I I was just looking at with with Kareem as far as he got six MVP.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. That's hard to defend. I don't know if Shaq could stop it or not, but if anyone Shaq's gonna get a lot of fouls, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, Shaq's gonna give him a lot of fouls just because how physical there's no way Kareem could guard Shaq for sure.

SPEAKER_01:

All right, bro. That was uh that was uh great uh life story. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00:

I appreciate thank you, thank you for um having me on.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no problem. And good lesson for anyone that may go through what we both went through. Don't get caught up in just the charm of someone or the beauty, because both of those things fade. And if the situation isn't right, don't get caught in that, don't get stuck in that, get out of it. We both made that mistake. So learn from us. All right, Chaz. If anyone wants to hear your podcast, tell them all about it, man, how they get to it.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, it's called uh, in my humble opinion with Chaz Douglas is on Apple Podcasts, is on Spotify, Amazon Music. Um I'm on Instagram. I you know, you can search Chaz Douglas, Facebook Chaz Douglas, and they can uh they can hear me and and um and follow me.

SPEAKER_01:

There you go. In my humble opinion, I know he has one great episode out there because I was on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That sounded totally I don't even know what the right word is because I don't know how arrogant, I guess, would be the word.

SPEAKER_00:

Um being real.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, all right. Thanks for coming on, Chad, and thank you everyone for listening to my show. As always, I don't take for granted that you give me your time because time is your most valuable resource, and I appreciate you giving that to us and this show. And go to my website, brandedhell.com, and subscribe to the podcast and help me keep this uh chill going. It's called I could use the support, and I first get to support the control.

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Brandon Held

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