Discipline, Advocacy & Building a Real Estate Business that Lasts

What separates the agents who succeed long-term… from the ones who don’t make it past a few years?

In this episode of The Realtor Who Wines, Rashelle Newmyer has a conversation with Dr. Tony Kelly, 2026 President of Oregon REALTORS®, Air Force veteran, and seasoned real estate leader. They talk about discipline, burnout, and what it really takes to build a sustainable business.

“Discipline… that’s the bigger word.”

From a 20-year daily running streak to a 24-year real estate career, Tony shares how consistency, not motivation, is the foundation of long-term success.

🔄 From Burnout to Reinvention - Before real estate, Tony built a high-level corporate career leading national and global teams, but success came at a cost.

“I was burned out… burned out of traveling… and being away from my kids.”

That realization led him to pivot into real estate, where he believed he could leverage his background and create a different kind of life and business.

🏡 Real Estate Advice Most Agents Need to Hear - This episode is packed with real, honest insight, especially for newer agents or anyone looking to grow.

Tony breaks down:

•  Why discipline and daily habits matter more than anything else 
•  The biggest mistakes agents make early in their real estate career 
•  Why going into the office (especially when you’re new) is critical 
•  How to learn faster by being in the right environment 

One of the most powerful parts of this conversation is Tony’s perspective on brokerage decisions and why so many agents get it wrong.

“Don’t chase an office based on the fees… chase what’s going to grow your business.”

He shares what agents should be looking for instead:

•  Training and mentorship 
•  Support systems 
•  Accountability and structure 
•  Long-term growth opportunities 

Because at the end of the day…

“The fee is not the problem… no business is the problem.”

🏃‍♂️ The Mindset Behind Consistency

Tony’s running journey, nearly 20 years without missing a day, is a powerful parallel to business.

“I wonder if I can go 30 days… then six months… then a year… and I just never stopped.”

That same mindset applies to:

•  Building a business 
•  Leading others 
•  Staying committed when it’s inconvenient 

🤝 Leadership, Growth & What Most Agents Don’t See

Tony also shares his journey into leadership and how, for most of his career, he had no idea what was happening behind the scenes to support the industry.

“I had no idea what REALTORS® were doing behind the scenes… until I got involved.”

It’s a powerful reminder of:

•  The importance of industry involvement 
•  Advocacy and protecting clients 
•  And the bigger picture of real estate beyond transactions 

🔥 Why You Should Listen

If you’re:

•  A real estate agent (new or experienced) 
•  Building a business and struggling with consistency 
•  Feeling burned out or questioning your next move 
•  Or looking for real, no-fluff advice from someone who’s done it 

This episode will give you clarity and a bit of a reality check.

Grab a glass, settle in, and join us for a conversation about discipline, growth, and building a business that actually lasts.

Thank you for listening! Connect and collaborate with Realtor Rashelle on any of her social media platform pages > https://linktr.ee/RealtorRashelle 

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to the Realtor Who Wines podcast. I'm Rashelle Newmeyer, your hostess with the mostest a student of life, a connector, a passionate wine enthusiast and your local favorite guide. Join me as we explore the vibrant Pacific Northwest. Savor the finest wines and champion the spirit of entrepreneurship. Each episode, I'll sit down with inspiring guests, supporting business ownership and uncovering the stories that make this community unique. So grab a glass of wine, settle in, and let's embark on a journey of discovery and connection together. Cheers. Thank you so much for being here with me today, Doctor Tony. I appreciate it. Cheers to you. Cheers. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. All right, so these are plastic. I was expecting a plank of glass. I know one. I did that on purpose. Learning on the podcast. Like setting it down is loud when it's glass. And then the clinking. So. And it is a skill set to learn to drink with the mic right here. So when it was glass I kept hitting the mic and I was like, okay, tricks of the trade. I didn't know. Love it. All the things we learned during season one. Will you please introduce yourself to everybody? Absolutely. So I'm Doctor Tony Kelly, I am the 2026 president of Oregon Realtors. I'm also, a realtor. So I've been going into my 24th year in real estate. I'm the co-founder and co-owner of Keller Williams Realty, Portland Premier. And the immediate past president and the immediate past president for Portland Metropolitan Association of Realtors, where I did a two year stint and doing a two year stint right now, Oregon Realtors. So this is a this is a four year journey. I've been in for president. So I love it. We are going to talk a lot about real estate today, but we are drinking free wine because Tony is training for a race where you talk a little bit about your race. I am so, so well. It's interesting you say my running journey because. So I've been running for a long time. I am, for those who know me, know that I'm a daily runner. I call it what's actually called a streak runner, but I don't run a mile in the news. So. Right. But we have an association called the United States Running streak Association. And currently, as I just looked last week, I'm 119 in the world on that streak. So on March 17th, which is coming up next week, knock on wood, if I don't get hurt, I will hit 20 years without missing a single day of running. That is so impressive. How do you develop that kind of dedication? Well, discipline really discipline. A bigger word. Discipline. I would say a lot of that has to go back to my my past career in the Air Force. So I was active duty air Force went to the Air Force Academy. So discipline is just kind of, you know, par for the course. So discipline has never been an issue for me at all. I think my friends and family would actually say I'm probably a little too disciplined in some regards, like this running streak, which can be really inconvenient for family members and friends. So. Sure. Well, and what was it about wanting to, like, make that commitment to run every day? Like was there something that sparked that in you, or was it like, oh, I've done this ten days in a row, let's see how long I can go. And now you're at 20. Great question. It was actually an article and running I think it was Runner's World magazine. So at that time this is 20 years ago. I was doing like some daily race. I mean, all weekend races, just fun runs. I had done Hood to Coast multiple times. So I was reading this article about these weird people who literally run every single day, and I was like, that is quite easy. And I was like, these guys are just the weirdos of the running world. But then on reflection, I was like, I wonder if I can go 30 days in a row, you know, like that means like, no recovery days, no off days. So I was like, I wonder if I can do that? So I did it. And, you know, again, people who know me, they know I love a challenge as well. So I made it 30 days and then it's like, well, okay, I wonder if I can do six months. And then I made it six months. I was like, what shoes? You know, at this point I gotta I gotta go a year, gotta go a year. So I made it to the year or nine. That was 20 years ago, so I haven't stopped. That's amazing I love that. Is there anything about running that helps you with your business? Like is that give you a time to like, reflect is at a time where you just shut down and it's like a you time. That's what it is. Yeah. I mean, you nailed it. It's literally my, my, my, my, my time might be time. I just completely get to check out mentally and just not think. I mean, a lot of people like, oh, are you pondering this or are you planning on? It's like, no, I'm not thinking about anything when I'm running. Oh, it's just like, I just run, just go. And that's one of the things I love about trail race in the last like 3 or 4 years, I've really gotten into trail running. Partly because, you know, I'm getting old. And so the road is just a lot more taxing for me. Whereas the trail is just a little more forgiving. I'm not so concerned about my pace. Okay. I'm really concerned about like, that tree route. And I wanted I was just going to start falling off the side of the hill, you know, the mountain and just falling down. So you just you're locked in, you're focused, and you just kind of enjoy, you know, we're in Oregon, which is gorgeous to run. There's so many trails here. So yeah, it's it's a little different. So I'm kind of retired from the road I think. Yeah. So that's so funny. I prefer the road because I'm so clumsy. I'm nervous about the trail runs and I'd be like, is that a snake? Was that a snake like you do come across it? I'm sure. Yeah I'm sure. Anybody? Before we dive into real estate stuff, any tips or tricks or advice you would give somebody that's like thinking about getting into running or like a mile. Just seems so far to them. Like some getting started tips, I would say probably do the run walk technique. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Just try to try to one give yourself a lot of grace and understand that it will come pretty quickly. But you know, those first couple times out you're going to feel like absolute crap. Yeah. Don't give up. And if you've got to walk that's fine. Yeah I mean like unless you're a professional runner, nobody cares about your pace. Yeah that being said, stay off of like don't don't judge yourself based on social media because right now there's this whole running culture on social media where everybody's like posting their Strava times and they're like mile one and you know, they're running with their their phone mile two, and they're making it one. A lot of them are fake. You know, it's like you're not running 26 miles this morning before you go to work. That's just B.S. that's like, I'm not lying, right? Yeah. And especially like, they're not sweating or anything like that. That's perfect. Yeah. There's so many like, they're running at, like this five minute pace. It's like, get the hell out. So no one's anyone. Don't judge yourself by any of that stuff. So and I would also say the big thing is invest in a good pair of shoes. Oh for sure. Do not go with the shoes that are cute or that are on sale. Literally invest in a good pair of shoes. Yeah, well, and I think what some non runners don't know is like your feet tend to swell up a little bit. So actually getting like a half a size bigger. So as especially on the longer runs that gives you a little bit more cushion. And yeah and you know I would say the other thing and for those who can afford it, if you if you're really serious about running, try to do a running shoe rotation. And what that means is you want to have various shoes for the type of runs that you're doing. Yeah. So I have, you know, much to my wife's chagrin, I think I've got about seven shoes in my running shoe rotation that I literally like. If I'm doing a temple run, run, if I'm doing a threshold run, if I'm doing an easy run, a recovery run, a VO2 max run, I literally have different shoes for each of those. Well, I would assume you would need different shoes for trail runs too, because you need different graphs. Those are completely different. Yeah, I've got I've got several in that rotation based on what type of running I'm doing. If I'm doing like really technical trail or if I'm doing something that's just going to be like a really soft pack, you know, those are going to be different shoes. But the big thing I find this with the running shoe rotation for the roads on the road side is because, you know, I race on on the trail, but my training is still road. So when I say I retire from the road, I just meant that I retire from racing on the road. Yeah, but it just really has helped me minimize the injuries. All those little like nags and pains and aches that you get when you rotate your shoes. You don't really get those. Yeah. Well, now I will say to you to the run walk situation, I trained for a half marathon in 2012 and my I was a former athlete, college athlete. So my mind if I did not run the whole thing, I was not doing it. Yeah, right. Like I then I didn't even do it. And so I ran my first half marathon. I ran the whole thing. I barely stopped for water because I was like, I have to run. So I only stopped at the water breaks or whatever. But then the next year I ran with my mom and she does run walk. And I never felt better. I was like, when I was running, I was running faster because I was rested. And then at the end of the race, I was like, my joints feel great, I'm not tired. And I did the same mileage like my time was a little bit slower. But I also got to stay with my mom the whole time. So it's just a totally different. And you have fun. Yeah. So it wasn't like focus. I must have a good time again, a good time? No way. Nobody was paying you to do that, right? So no one cared or saw me and was like, oh, she's barely running. Like no one was watching me. It was all in my own head. So there's a couple different ways to do it, but I appreciate you sharing this. Absolutely. Let's talk a little bit about your real estate journey. What got you so from the Air Force? First of all, thank you very much for your service. I appreciate you, what got you to transition into real estate? So I went from active duty air force to. So take it all the back. I'm going to I'm going to bore your audience here. So, we're in Oregon, but I'm originally from Detroit, Michigan, so that's where that whole Detroit line and fandom comes from. I'm a huge diehard Lions fan. The Lions love my Pistons, love my Red wings love my, you know, my Tigers Michigan football go blue. All right. So that's my plug for the home state. Yeah. So anyway graduated from the graduated from high school. Went to the Air Force Academy, graduate from the academy. I was stationed in Grand Forks, North Dakota. I was, nuclear launch officer up for five years in North Dakota. During that time, the Air Force paid for me to go to grad school to get my MBA. And during the 90s, this is. Yeah. So I, I graduated from college in 1990, giving away my age. They paid for me to go to get my MBA during that time, the.com boom was the first.com boom was taking place. And so if you were a service academy grad, because we're engineers, our undergrads are in Bachelor of Science, then combine that with, master's degree. We were hot commodities in the tech world. So all of a sudden headhunters are calling and they're saying, hey, you can make three times your captain salary. You don't have to live in North Dakota. My wife was like, done, easy decision. So now that being said, I love the Air Force. I really did enjoy serving. But three times a captain salary was kind of an easy decision. Yeah. For sure. So then we went, I left, I went to I was working in corporate America, in the tech world. We were in Minneapolis, Saint Paul, okay. And I started, in a new division for this company I was working for there. Did really well in my first couple years, and to the point where one of the competitors recruited me to come and join them. My, my, it's like, hey, I'm only going to come if you can send me to Silicon Valley. It's like, I want to be ground zero for tech. They're like done. So moved to Sam. Want to go work for this company? Moved to San Francisco to the Bay area and did, do really well there, to the point where the company I left came back and made me an offer. I couldn't refuse to come back, moved us down. I took over a division down in San Diego, and we lived down there. And then that company eventually moved me up here to Oregon, which is where they're headquartered, to take over, another division. So that was my people always ask, how did you go from Detroit to Oregon? So that's how we did it. Yeah. So, several stops in between. So I was in corporate America. I managed the couple strategic national sales teams. I managed, marketing organization. And then my last job was, director of worldwide sales operations. So I was managing teams in multiple countries on the plane. This is before zoom and all that stuff. And I call it my early midlife crisis. Where I was, I was just burned out. I was burned out of traveling. I was burned out and planned the whole game. I was burned out. And being away from my kids, who were very young at that time, and they were, you know, just like top barely toddlers or something. So it was, for me, like I said, early midlife crisis. And I was like, you know, I'm I got to do something different. This is killing me. So it each of those stops that we had no reason I'm given all this background because there is a point. All the places that we live, we always bought and sold homes. And so we had this, right. We had this experience with really good realtors. We had the experience of bad realtors, but at that time, when I started in real estate in 2003, I was like, I think I could use leverage, my corporate experience and my tech experience, and I think I can hit the ground running pretty quickly. Yeah. So I talked my wife into joining me. She was a stay at home mom at the time. She came from education. So I mean, you know, she her doctor is education or master's in education. So she took time off to raise her kids. And I say, hey, honey, do this with me for five years. It's like, I just want to have a competitive differentiator. We're going to be the husband and wife team, and I really needed her, like on a disc profile. I'm a high D. And she's an s c and I needed that's she needed that balance. So she's like fair enough. I'll give you five years and you can talk to her. She literally to the day it was five years. She was like five years out of here. She already had a job set up. She went right back to teaching. So that's how we we did it. And the reason I did it again, like I said, is at that time I thought this was a profession that I could hit the ground running pretty quickly. So, you know, I hate to say this, and I shouldn't even say this and have it record it, but a lot of people like, oh, I just love homes. And I love, you know, watching HGTV, you know? No, that's not why I picked it. Yeah. So it's like no, same I we have kind of similar backgrounds. And the way that I came from marketing and what corporate world and I lead sales teams and I led marketing teams and kind of the same thing. Rylan was like three. And I was like, I'm so tired of like, paying so much money for somebody else to have her all day, like for daycare and then also running myself ragged to make somebody else money and then having to negotiate. Like Rylan has a dentist appointment. They're like, oh, I don't know. You got to be here on Thursday. And I'm like, but I was here Saturday, Sunday and all the evenings doesn't count, right? It doesn't matter. So I kind of had that same thing. I think the corporate background, well, you're already very disciplined before you were in corporate too. But the corporate background just give you that like you're just used to going to work every day. And so I think a lot of people that transition from a business background to real estate specifically do hit the ground running because they're already disciplined. And you go to work. Thinking about moving to Oregon. Don't just Google it. Talk to someone who loves it. I help people relocate smoothly and confidently. Reach out and let's talk about your next move and make sure it makes sense for you. Yeah, three day and you think you're used to the grind, used to the grind. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the some of the agents that struggle are the ones that didn't have to do self-starting a daily task or show up to an office every day. Those are the ones that are like, yes. And we see that even at our brick, at our brokerages and stuff like the agents that come in do really well and the agents that don't come in all the time don't always do that great. Especially if they're newer and they're. Yeah, if you're new, you know, any any tips I can give here as we're going through this. You are new to the industry. You need to be going in. Yeah, I mean period. It's like you have you're going to learn from other people. Yeah. And you but it's also just getting those habits, like getting into these habits. I want to go in at this time. I'm going to be making my calls. I've got my to do list. I'm checking these off. Like, you have to get in the habit of doing that before it becomes. It's kind of like that 10,000 hour principle. Like you become an expert after 10,000 hours or something. Well, get into that. You know, 10,000 hours of going into the office and grinding, right? Absolutely. And you do learn so much by overhearing conversations even now. I'm not as seasoned as you. I'm on year eight, but I still overhear conversations. I'm like, oh, I have never had that situation happen. That was a really interesting topic. And then I'll always ask the agent, like, so what they decide or how do you decide to fix it? Or which way that they go, but you're always learning. That's what's kind of cool about our business, right? It's constant learning. So after the first five years, how did you and Dwight pair up and decided to was it you enjoy it or you and Peter. So it was actually Peter was the first. So okay. It was so my wife and I and a couple other agents, we started this office and Keller Williams Portland from there. And then I think it was literally probably within like six months, we got Peter to join us. So when you're starting off, especially when we started this off, there was Keller. Nobody knew who Keller Williams was. I mean, they were not the largest company in the world or anything like that at that time, but there was no KW presence out here on the on the West Coast, specifically the Pacific Northwest. So when we started the there's a game, a playbook that KW has especially for like these new territories, you've got to find yourself, an icon agent that people are familiar with. Well, I mean, my wife and I have been in the business for 12 months. Nobody knew who the hell we were, right? So we were not icons or anything. So we recruited Peter to be that icon agent. So Peter, Peter Clark actually joined us pretty much. I think it was about six months after we we started. So he's pretty much. And he's still, you know, he was one of the, you know, he's one of the OG owners essentially. Yeah. Yeah. And then Peter, I mean then Dwight I think was about seven years later, 7 or 8 years later. And then what how did you make decisions together on like where to have that office or how to grow the office and things like that. So when you're starting a new market center, you have to declare to international, this is the market area that we're looking to put our footprint in, because you got to make sure it doesn't overlap with any other market centers that are coming in or any that are established. At that time, we all lived in this area. So I live in Lake Oswego, right. And you know, Peter Dwight, everybody, we all live in this, this neighborhood here. So it was kind of natural for us as far as the location area was like, this is our backyard. This is where we want to make sure that we establish our, our business and our reputation. So that was pretty easy there as far as finding the specific location, right? It was it was, you know, fortunately we had people on the team who had commercial real estate experience. So we're able to leverage that. But we didn't start in this location. Right. You know, we started actually across the drive. I'm pointing here for people who are online listening to the podcast, but they're literally probably about 150 yards from this location. We were in a much smaller office, and that's where we I think we were there for probably about ten years. Yeah, seven, 7 to 10 years. I forget what made you move down here. Just we just grew way too. We we grew way faster than we thought we were going to grow. So we just outgrew the space. So then we this area here or the room that the building that we're in right now was literally just a big, huge blank canvas. I think it was like a kids gymnastics center. Oh, fun. So that's, you know, we're like, this looks really cool. But we literally had to have this vision of like what we wanted. So everything you see, all these offices, everything was built out. This was just one big, gigantic space, open space. So our goal was esthetically we're like, hey, if we can create something that kind of has that downtown, like Pearl district feel. Yeah. And the suburbs, that was what we did. So that's why we went with the barn doors. And we want the exposed ceilings and the beams and yeah, it worked out really well though. Yeah. It's for I always like to ask, broker owners on people that have been on the industry for a while. So many people make decisions based off of fees, and I just disagree with that wholeheartedly, because I feel like you should choose a brokerage for lots of reasons outside of the fees, what kind of advice do you give people on what kind of questions they should ask a brokerage when they're interviewing, which brokerage they want to go with, or what things should they consider important besides just the fees? I so that's a really good point. Don't just go. Don't chase an office based on the fees. You want to chase an office based on what you think they're going to do to grow your business. The fees are just irrelevant if you're making money, if you're not making money, then all of a sudden that's when people start like oh geez, you know I'm not selling any houses. I gotta cut this expense and that expense. I'm going to go to this other cheap rate brokerage here that doesn't provide services. And then next thing you know, those individuals are like out of the business. I mean, the turnover in our industry is huge. So many people get licensed because the barriers to entry are super low. They're two years and they're gone. They're out. And that's because when things are tough, they're chasing those, chasing those fees so they can start cutting those expenses. So the things you want to look for I think is what office, what type of services do they have? They're going to help me actually hit the ground running quickly. What type of support am I going to receive once I do get a transaction or a deal or client and what type of ongoing training am I going to get? I mean, is it is the training just like, oh, well, you know, go is perfect example when we started in real estate, when my wife and I started in real estate, we started at Remax. So we are a Remax equity group. I started I did you. Yeah. So the location we're at is no longer, you know, no Longer here is over in Tualatin. And our I remember at the time I was like, okay, I want to take I just want to learn as much as I can. I'd like that's just my mentality, right? Yeah. And I remember going to my managing broker, I'm like, okay, what what should I be learning right now? What classes should I be taking? And she was like, well, you know, you should probably get this designation. And this designation is like that was essentially the training they provided at that time. No, this is not not knocking Remax or anything like that. This is 24 years ago and this is one that was how things were done. Yeah, right. It was very normal. Right. And I did so at one point I think I had every designation that any RSU everything. Yeah. And I remember when and this again this is not a plug for KW. But I remember when KW approached us and I said they you know, the question he asked is like, you know, what do you want to do. Like what type of business do you want to have? Do you want to do X amount of business or as far as volume, do you want to do X amount a commission? What how big do you want to be small? Do you want to be? And when I started asking or answering those questions, they came back and like, okay, here's the playbook for this. Here's the training for this, here's the training for this. At that time, that was a revolutionary thing. Like companies just didn't really do that. So that's and I bring that up because when you're looking for an office, no matter where it is, and it's like everybody, most of your major companies have really good training nowadays. Yes. But how often do the are they providing that training? Do they bring experts and do they have people in the office who are providing that type of training, variety of training? Exactly. How often do they have that training? So if you're a new agent, ask to see the training calendar. It's like, I want to see your training calendar for this month and next. For next month, I want to know what type of attrition do. Yeah. What's the turnover? It's like, okay, you recruit, you have this many agents who are coming in. How many are actually sticking. What's the retention rate. Yeah. You know that is a sign of what not to do. A lot tells you a lot. This tells you how effective that office is at really producing and training their agents. Because if you're doing well, you're going to stick around. Yeah. So those are the type of questions I would ask. Yeah. And I couldn't agree more. I really like I just cringe when someone's like, oh, I left because the fee was this. I'm like, that's it. That's the only what? The fee is not the problem. No business is the problem. Exactly. And so and a lot of times and again, we're not trying to diss anybody. But the lower fee brokerages tend not to have as much support training. There's a reason they're the lower fees. So if you're not doing well at a brokerage with a little bit higher fees because they provide all these things, you're not going to do well at the brokerage that doesn't have those things. Absolutely is more about applying what's available to you. That being said, as president of our 18,000 agents, I support all brokerages in the state of Oregon. Absolutely. Let's talk about your leadership journey. That was a good Segway. What? After what was your first, like, major leadership role within, like, Oregon Realtors or PMA? Like, is this a recent journey for you, or did you dabble a little bit along the. Oh, no, not at all. This is all very recent for me. The my I would so what is this? Like I say, this is what 23 years going on, 24 years or so, the I can honestly say the first 1718, it was just about my business and growing. My team and I had a pretty large team. We did, you know, lots of transactions. The that was all my focus. It was just about managing my team and the market center here. So I never knew anything about, like, what realtors were doing behind the scenes so that I could do what I was doing. Yeah. And I would say that's probably like 99% of agents out there. They just have no idea that you get to do what you're doing because you were this cadre of agents behind the scenes who were volunteering their time to protect your industry. Yeah, protect our our profession and to protect our our clients, our buyers and our sellers and the community. I had no idea. Yeah. And so many don't. So many know. And so I don't fault them for not knowing. It's like I didn't know for forever until you do. I was the same. I was definitely an agent. I was like, what are all these fees for? Like, why am I paying these fees? And now when someone says, I'm like, well, did you know? And I like, can say all the reasons why you're paying the fees. So what got you, like what caught your attention? So how did you get involved? So what got me was, is it's the classic tap on the shoulder. Somebody's tapping me on the shoulder. So what? When I really got involved, it was. It was interest me because I was working. You know, I tell this story, too, because it was all about timing as well. And I was working on my doctorate and I was taking this one particular course and I was doing some research. I read this one peer review study, and it talked about how African-American homeownership was at its lowest level since 1968. Oh, gosh. And I sat back and I'm like, Holy smokes, really? 1968? That is crazy. Now this is when the market was on fire. I was like, this is this is insane. And so then I really just some self-reflection. It's like, okay, this industry has been really good to me. I've done very well. It's time for me to give back and start, you know, and pay it forward so that, you know, I could do something about that particular disparity. So around that same time, all of a sudden I get this call from from Drew Coleman and I, you know, drew started in the business probably about a year before I did. So, you know, always been tracking him in New Drew. I didn't know him well, but I saw him pivot into the governance space. And then I just get this call. He's like, hey, Tony, we need you. It's time for you to like, you know, step up. I was like, drew, your timing could not be more perfect. I literally just read this article and I was just thinking to myself, like, what can I do to like, help? And that was really the tap that I needed to really kind of start my journey. So I started off at what used to be the master Circle, which is now the Circle of Excellence at PMA, and then I transitioned from that to PMA and got on the board at PMA. For those of you that aren't familiar with PMA, just because not everybody that's listening to industry, correct? It's our local association within the Portland Metro. Yeah. So the Portland Metropolitan Association of Realtors, so I got in, got involved on the board of directors there and then eventually became president of PMA. Yeah. And then once I was I was doing that simultaneously with getting involved at the state level. So I served on the Diversity Key committee and then moved over to the Government Affairs Key Committee, which is our advocacy arm for Oregon Realtors, which is the state association, just above, local association. And then through that, I started I mean, I was able to get on a national committee for Nar, and I've served on a couple of different national committees. So that kind of started the journey. And then once you once you get in with all of it, you're getting your doctorate. I was yeah. Just to add an extra level. Yeah. And also trying to sell homes every now and then. So yeah. What has been some things that have surprised you along the way with your leadership journey within the association or with Oregon Realtors in general? I would say the the more involvement I had at the state and national level, the more I saw how much we did for our industry and our profession and for the community. Yeah. As you start volunteering and you start meeting all these other individuals across the nation and you realize like, holy smokes, we they're, you know, they're doing this, they're doing this, are meeting with their Congress, you know, Congress, you know, representatives or senators, they're meeting with their, you know, the governors of their states. And then all of a sudden, you get those opportunities to do so as well. And you just realize we do a ton. Yeah, that people don't know about. Can you Oregon real estate is hyperlocal neighborhood to neighborhood. It matters if you want insider knowledge, not just guesswork. Please call me. And let's make your next smooth, smooth. give just a few examples of things that we've done in the last couple of years? Yeah, I would say the every year there's an ongoing battle and people don't realize this is for like, say the mortgage interest deduction. Yeah. Like there's always some type of effort. In fact, we have it going on right now at the state House where there there's legislation to get rid of. Mid on second homes. Right. And it's going to say right now that is that effort started off. They want to get rid of it on primary residences which will literally take thousands of dollars out of people's pockets. Yeah. At a time when the affordability is a major issue in the first place, right? Yeah. So anyway, I won't go too deep into that, but that will be an example of something that affects buyers or sell. I mean, owners on a national level. The other thing, perfect example. During Covid we were not we take it for granted that our state were as far as realtors, we were deemed as essential. And so that was not the case across the country. Right. Like there were lots of states where realtors you know, transactions stopped and realtors were just out of work. Yeah. During that whole Covid time. That is an example of the advocacy that we had on the state level to make sure that we were deemed essential workers. So and I don't know if your business was like, but during that time people were buying and selling homes. Yeah. Well, nothing is, a rude awakening like being stuck somewhere with your whole family. So before and not. I'm not saying that people don't like their families, but it's totally different when everyone's trying to do meetings and school work all in one space, that they've never had to do that before. And when everyone was stuck at home, they were like, we actually, we need a bigger house or we need a house that's set up differently. And so people are like, we can't do this. And also they were nervous about like, how long are we going to be working from home? Like, this can't be. We can't all be at the kitchen table, right? Trying to be on our laptops at the same time. This isn't working. So yeah, it was really busy. So busy that a lot of people got into the industry a ton. Just. Well, that's a perfect. Yeah. Well, you look at our numbers at that point, state wise, we were like over 20,000 agents. We're now we're back down to about 16, 17,000. So yeah, it was a lot of people jumped in during that time, but that never would have me literally like, yeah, states were shut down. Yeah, they were states that were completely shut down during that time. So that's just one example. As far as like legislation behind the scene. There's constant legislation on the permitting side when it comes down to, easing some of the restrictions that are unnecessary or adding restrictions that we think need to be in place. You know, those are the things that we work on as a trade organization at Nar. Yeah. When we advocate, I think, a lot of people don't realize we advocate for so much homeownership opportunities and things that will impact homeownership. But also just like kind of what we've talked about with covet, the ability to do our jobs or the impact like health care, we have gone to the legislation multiple times about being to 99 employees and how to provide better health care. So we don't have all these realtors running around with no health care or minimal health care. So when they fall down trying to reach a lockbox, like how are they being right and things like that. So we're advocating on like the industry as a whole to absolutely AB so important. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, you know, the one of the things that people don't understand and I think they're starting are especially are politicians are starting to understand on a national level, is that the number one generator of generational wealth or created creation of generational wealth is homeownership here in the United States. And that's what we do at NAS. We're protecting that particular aspect that, you know, the American dream of being an own, a home, but being to own a home so that we can create generational wealth. Yeah. And this is something, again, this is when I read that study in 19 about 1968. And black owned homeowner homeownership being at its lowest point, it hit me because that all of a sudden is this huge generational wealth ability that my people just were not really participating in. Yeah. And that was huge. Yeah. So what are some other things that have stuck out to you and in just the most recent years that you wish Realtors knew more about or would educate themselves on a little bit more? It really just goes back to advocacy. I just wish they understood the importance of constantly advocating for our profession, for our industry, and for our community. That, I mean, yeah, that is the biggest takeaway. Yeah. So same. Well, and you don't have to get involved as far as like run for president or be on the board, but just even coming to the annual meetings and like learning what PMI was doing and learning what Oregon Realtors doing or even nah, it's amazing to me and the Facebook groups on social media when people are like, well, when Nar screwed us in the lawsuit and I'm like, they protected you, they saved you. I don't think you understand the lawsuit and things like that. They really don't. And this is so here's the thing. I will say this. So, you know, I was talking about social media as far as on the running side. And don't falling don't fall prey to what you read. Yeah. And social media for those in our profession. So from our members of Oregon Realtors listen up doctor Tony is about to tell you. So please, please be careful when you're engaging in all these these Facebook groups for real estate. Yeah. Don't get sucked into a there's so much misinformation that is being shared. And then people just get spun up and they just get all excitable about something that they don't really know what the hell they're talking about. I was just to be honest. Yeah. Don't share someone else's opinion, as it's a matter of fact, because that's what's happening. People are stating their opinions, and some of these groups and then other agents are repeating it like, well, did you know, blah, blah blah. And it's like, that wasn't facts. That was so-and-so's opinion. Most of it. It's not facts. Yeah. So when you talked about the the settlement, like why didn't. Nah like, you know, fight for we lost. Yeah. This isn't a matter of hey we just like we came up with this. Oh we're going to do this. We lost the lawsuit. They deliberated for less than two hours. In other words, we got our asses handed to us. Yes. Yeah. So it's a no brainer to them. Yes. So there's no like. Oh well we subtle like. No we didn't subtle we lost. Yeah. So after we lost now we had to regroup and figure out what we're going to do. So I just want to make sure that people understand there's a lot of misinformation. They're like, well, why didn't they fight harder? Like, no, we lost. Yeah. So there's only so much you can do once a verdict is made. There's only so much. Exactly. And so then it became okay, the settlement was in the billions, not with the M, but with a B, right. We got that knocked down to the millions. Right. Otherwise, you know, as you know it, today probably is not here. Right. Well, and part of what they included in the suit was protecting individuals. So then there couldn't be all these like sub suits, all the copycats. So that was the other thing that we were able to negotiate is like for, for people. And again they just don't understand. This is like if we did not settle when it came down to the amount and actually being able to figure out like how to get that be removed and get it down to an m, the other thing was the following protections for all the, you know, the offices, including the mom and pop offices across the nation. So the settlement literally protected our industry as it is today, like you are functioning today and doing your job today because NRW made the tough decisions of settling on what the punishment essentially would be, not the verdict. The verdict was we got our asses kicked. Yeah, well, and if we're being really transparent and honest for anybody that's listening, like what lawsuit? What are they talking about? The lawsuit was really around transparency and agents not communicating properly and and are protected you after making the mistake. And I didn't necessarily make that mistake. Agents out in the field are the ones that like sparked the lawsuit because of their practices and things. So now we have a much more transparent form and process so that hopefully this won't be an issue going forward. You know, I would say, and that's a really important point, because as painful as that was to go through and it was it's like, okay, you know, I was president, I think I was president for the first time. Or, you know, during that time all of a sudden, trust me, my life would be upside down. So like, I'm dealing with things that previous presidents had not had to deal with. Yeah, they got to go on like all the, you know, I call it the, you know, the beauty pageant show for a year. It's like, no, I'm doing like, how do we save this industry? How do we how do we save our profession? How do we save the association? What are we going to do type of thing. So at the end of the day, though, as painful as that was what resulted, we came out of that. This is a better industry with better practices and more professionalism than it was beforehand. So talking to the realtors out there, especially if you were a buyer's agent, how many times did you get stood up for a showing because you got some internet? Lee. They call you up and you're like, oh, I want to go see this house. And then you like show up at the house and they're not there. Or you show up at the house, you show them this house and then they ghost you. And like a week later, you finally touch base with like, oh, yeah, we wrote an offer with like, you know, my, my mom's sisters, you know, hairdresser who just got her real estate license. Yeah. And so you're like, wait, what? Those days are gone. Yeah. Because of the practices that we put in place after the settlement. So now buyers agents, you have to have a contract with your buyers. Just like you do on the selling side. Yeah. Those are all good things. They are at the time when we're putting those in place, there's lots of gnashing of teeth and people are like, oh my God, the sky is falling. It's like, it's all good. It is. And it really goes back to can you speak to your value if you can, the buyer broker agreement should not be like troubling to you because you're just explaining the home buying process and how it works and what you're providing them, and why they should sign it with you. It's no different than a listing appointment. And I think you, myself, and those of us who came from maybe the corporate world, we were like, well, yeah, this is easy. Just I'm just going to this is my value. If I'm not selling my value, then I don't deserve to get this particular buyer right. So it was kind of easy for us. Well, and I, I don't know about you, but I had talked about it. I had always talked about with my clients how I get paid because that's always a question. Even on the buy side, I it was just not a form I was presenting. But I would explain that like sometimes the seller offer at that time do not call me. This is not the current practice. Don't talk about don't talk about commission, right? Yes. Yeah. I was like at that time, I would say in the listing, it may or not be listed of what the seller is offering right to pay on your behalf. And if in the event you find a property that doesn't offer that, then we would have a different conversation at that time. So it's just a totally different conversation. Now you just have a piece of paper that's like very crystal clear going for it, very crystal clear, and are like, hey, and everything's negotiable. And that's my job. My job is to negotiate. Right? So I mean, that's like I always say to like, interview a couple of agents for the non real estate professionals listening that are home buyers and sellers. I always recommend interview a couple agents and ask them if they'll cut their commission and if they negotiate with you like that, don't hire that. Don't think, don't hire that girl. Don't hire that guy. Because if they're not going to advocate for their own paycheck their own way, that they're providing for their family, they sure as heck aren't going to advocate for you. Absolutely not. They're looking for easy money. Yeah. Or they don't believe in their skill set enough to back up like this is why I charge x, y, z. Because I provide this and this and this and I run these ads or whatever if they're like, oh sure. Yeah. That percent. Yeah, whatever you want. They're not going to really do the job that you want done. So just something to think about. So you're looking to buy or sell. That is an excellent point. What about anybody that's like a little bit nervous about getting into leadership or not really. Sure. I know for me, I kind of like you. Someone tapped me on the shoulder for women's counsel. And being a part of Women's Council of Realtors is what really opened my eyes to like, oh, that's what's going on at work in Realtors. Oh, that's that's going on a part. And then you and I are both huge fans of the Oregon leadership Academy. Go class 24, class of 23, best of all time. We'll see. But there are other ways to get involved. But what are some, pieces of advice you would give an agent that's like, I want to know more, but I'm not ready to sign up. Absolutely. Well, you touched on one of them, and that is my my advice is, before you say you're not quite ready to volunteer at the local association level, I would say find an affinity group that you feel like, okay, I identify with them. I have a passion for what they're trying to do. I want to roll up my sleeves and get involved with one of my affinity groups. And so an affinity group would be like the Women's Council, the, NRA or the National Association of Real Estate Brokers. For African or for blacks. Now rep National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals, area for the, Asian-American real estate professionals. And then there's the LGBTQ plus Alliance. And so you have these different real estate affinity groups get involved with them, volunteer, you know, they have fun, they do community service. And then maybe you're like, okay, I feel like I have a passion on the advocacy side now. So then I would say probably get involved with your local association. So here in the Portland metro area, that would be p ma. And they have a very robust, advocacy engine over there because they're dealing with, you know, Portland politics. Yeah. And so some of the, the well, the challenges that we face on the state level are same. I mean, completely echoed on the Portland metropolitan side. Absolutely. Probably even more so as far as some of the challenging politics there. So that's a great space to actually get involved. If you are passionate about that. And then I would say, you know, don't be shy about getting involved at the state level. It's not like because you can join each of these associations has different committees, and you can serve on these committees without saying, oh, I want to be president of this organization. Just get involved. Just roll up your sleeves and get get involved. Yeah. And sometimes getting involved is just being a person at the table that helps represent your area. So that's what I love about the fall and spring. Governance is, agents from all over the state come to these meetings and we talk about things that are going on across the state, because things that are happening in Redmond might not be happening in Portland, but it's good for us to know about it, too. And like cross talk about it, because a lot of our decisions that we make impact everybody. Absolutely. But if you are in the Portland metro, the five affinity groups are a great way to start. We don't have them all across the state. Yeah, it is a goal for most of our affinity groups to continue to grow. So if you're interested and you're in a different area and you want one of these groups in your area, let me know and I'll connect you with leaders within them. And then also, why p n is always a good one to always forget about why p n yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So because I'm just so old. They were the young professionals, which, by the way, is 30 and under. I got asked to speak. They were like, why aren't you more involved in my piano? And I was like, I'm 43. And they're like, what are you? The podcast? And I was like, are you guys saying I'm cool? Does that mean I'm cool? Awesome. So I appreciate you so much. I know you're super busy. So I really appreciate you taking the time to, you know, this is this has been fun. I would love to have you back. He has quite the Scotch palate, and so I'd love to explore that next time that you're on. So what I want to do if, if the likes or whatever they're called for this podcast, subscribe you and follow me if they go in the positive arena and, please have me back, I'll take you down to my, to the Oregon wine reserve in Lake Oswego, and I'll, we'll do this interview, but we'll do the scotch. I'll give you a quick tour of Scotland, and, you'll have a good time. Thank you. I appreciate that. Cheers. All right. Cheers. Thank you, everyone, for listening and for watching. I'll see you next week. Cheers. Cheers.