Episode: Richard's Story Continued

Richard and Pat complete Richard's story, discussing details of Richard's path from trauma and addiction to a life of joy, peace and strength as a follower of Jesus.

Transcript

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Welcome back to the two Christian podcast. I am Pat McCool coming to you from the Banks of a lake in the deep woods of South Mississippi. And now to my good buddy. Across the ocean Esteem psychotherapist and addiction specialist Richard Turrell. Richard, how you doing buddy? I am All right, uncle Pat. It's nice to see you. Doing all right. Thank you. We've got some sunshine over here, which is, uh, you know, not an everyday occurrence, so, yeah. Doing all right. Thank you. Well, that's what I was wondering. We're entering summer over here, so when does summer begin in England? About the same time. Yeah. We're the, we're the same sort of, same side of, like, above the equator, just like you, same latitude there? Yeah. Well, I think it's slightly different because the, the weather report in South Mississippi starting now to October, last about 30 minutes, 30 seconds. It's like in the weather today. It's either gonna be hot, hot as Hades. Unbearable might be some storms, might be some tornadoes. So watch out for mobile homes flying through the air. Back to you at the news desk, Nigel. I. Yeah, so we don't have to contend with all of that. We don't have the humidity that you guys have. Um, so yeah, it's like ser I think it's nice. We obviously, we have a lot less trailers as well, so Yeah, we don't have to worry about that quite as much. You don't, I understand. I mean, 80% of the housing stock in Mississippi, 80%. There you go. Stereo. Yeah, I live in a castle. I live in a castle, so it's much more, it's much more solid. I got you. Um, I did notice on the, the, what they call holiday in England on the beach, they had these trailers. Do they do that? Like these little campers? Oh, like, yeah, like camper van. And that's, and that's what people do holiday in. Huh? Well, like some, like a minority of people. Like, like not, not many. It's not something you've ever done, huh? No. Yeah, I kind of wondered. So the, uh. Phoebe, the other day, I was exchanging email For those of y'all that don't know, when Richard and I get together, I'm a comedian, so I work about three hours a week and the travel's really the only thing I have to schedule. But when I'm not doing anything, I'm just. Not doing anything. Richard, on the other hand, is a quite in demand individual. So when I schedule with Richard, I have to talk to his, he has people and his people is Phoebe Unwin, which to my British friends, listening's not a big deal, but in the South, Phoebe Unwins a pretty cool name and, um. She's a wonderful person. Seems very lovable, but when we exchanged emails the other day, I wished her a happy weekend and she said the sun has its hat on. So it looks like we're in for a lovely weekend. Just outta curiosity. What would the Sun has its hat on mean? Well, it's a, it's a song for, you know, like a kid song. The Sun has, I'm not gonna sing it Pat, but it's like the son, he's got his Go ahead. I bet you it's a talent you didn't know you had. I dunno, man. I dunno. Um. I'm gonna do it. The sun has got his hat on. The sun has got his hat on, and he's coming out to play. Ah, see it's a kid. It's a kid song. Okay. I didn't know that. I'm thinking the sun has its hat on. It's not gonna shine that much, but it's actually a kid song. Oh no. That means it's like the, the sun's out. The sun, the sun's out has its hat on. Fantastic. Maybe if I like strum on a banjo while I. Would that help at all? Yeah. Well, we have the nursery rhymes without the banjos, but, well, it's good to see you and thanks to you all that are joining us. Again, if you didn't hear us in the first episode, we are the two unlikely Christians. Uh, we both lived a life of, uh, had a very inauspicious start to life. That's a big word, Richard. Just let you, I'm, you know, you're rubbing off on me getting a little sophisticated but we had, uh, we had quite the struggles coming up and, um, it was all changed by our encounter and, uh, and following Jesus Christ. And we have a passion to, share that with other people. So they can have the same experience. And we, thought a good way to start our podcast would be to tell you the back stories, uh, each one of our back stories. So you'd know where we were coming from, and some of you may relate. And we were going to, in the first episode, we were, Richard was gonna tell his story, and then I was gonna tell my story, uh, and then Richard started talking and, uh, uh oh. Oh wow. One. So, so we never got to mine because Richards kept dropping bombs that I did. You know, we've known each other for a while and talked a bit and maybe a lesson for me that I talked too much because I didn't know a lot of this stuff when my, wife is listening in the other room and, I hear, oh, wow. Oh wow. Oh, wait, hold up. You can't just drop that and then move on. Wait. Father had a family across town. Now this, okay, now we're writing movies here. So, um, anyway, we want to kind of rehash that and go back to the beginning. So if I can, Richard,'cause I do have some questions. Just to recap, you started off, uh, and what you called a middle class family. Yeah. Well, you have a father that's an attorney turned into a judge. Mother. That's a doctor, and the states that's of crust above or so middle class. So I don't know. But you know, if you consider that middle class in England, in other words, you had a pretty prosperous upbringing, would that be safe? Yeah, I look, I think those, both of those professions in England, uh, are less than they do in America. Um, I, I think, you know, because our medical system is not like all private like yours is so. Doctors earn less lawyers, attorneys, as you call'em, like definitely earn less. Um, so, you know, like it is a bit different. We would like probably hovered somewhere between kind of lower and middle, um, lower and upper middle class. Like, you know, if that's the distinction. So like, we lived in a house, it was a nice house that had five bedrooms. It wasn't. Palatial, you know, we had two cars on the drive. They weren't like brand new Mercedes-Benz, you know, like it was, it was, no, it was not. We, we were com we definitely didn't go hungry. We had nice holidays. Mom and dad had pensions and stuff like that, you know, it was, but wa was kind of a, what You weren't just low balling. It was kind of middle, middle class, you know? I mean, and not every judge or doctor over here is a. Extremely wealthy, but it is a, pretty lucrative profession over here, but, mm. Uh, so you, you had that good upbringing, but the bad side. Um, and you mentioned that you loved your father. You have great admiration for him, work ethic, you know, what he provided. Uh, but he was a flawed man, correct? He was very, he had many, many flaws. Yeah, many flaws. Uh, and it was abusive. Abusive towards, towards your mother? Uh, abusive towards you, did you say? Yeah. Violent. Yeah. Violent. So you had a violent upbringing, um, kind of forced your mother into a shell., Is what? I took from that. So it kind of pushed her into drinking and kind of recoiling. Uh, is that safe? Well, I think, look, she had a drink problem. I think she had a drink problem coming into the marriage. You know, from what I've been able to piece together, I don't think that the relationship with my dad helped her in any, in any way. You know, my dad was a lot, definitely quite controlling, domineering, um. You know, as you've kind of alluded to at the start of this episode, you know, had a long-term affair, you know, so, and I think my mom was aware, well, I know actually my mom was aware of that, and for whatever reason, she didn't feel able to leave the marriage. So she was very much, um, I. I think she felt, I don't think she was, I think she felt very trapped in that relationship. And I think my dad did, uh, chisel away her self-esteem. Some, yeah. Yeah, for sure. But, uh, I think, I mean, knowing what I know about how people tick, you don't end up in a relationship like that'cause you are playing with a full deck in the first place, you know? Right. Right. So, so that, it wasn't really that she, that he kind of pushed her into it. She, she was flawed to, to start with. Oh yeah, definitely like that. It is like, it's like that kind of chicken and egg stuff, you know? It's like you attract what you, you know what you are, it's like, we put out, you know, what we put out, we get back, you know, it's like when I was deeply unhealthy and broken, and damaged and, and all that, and hadn't done any work on myself. The, you know, the women I was with. Like that basically, you know, you, you, you kind of attract, uh, you, you kind of attract the same people. So the bottom line was you, it was a very dysfunctional home. And, you just weren't, you weren't feeling love growing up. Yeah, it was, there was an absence of love and an absence of emotional attunement and an absence of, you know, feelings weren't welcome. There was a lot of anger. I. You know, the, a lot of anxiety, a lot of unspoken feelings, un felt disowned anger, or it was like a soup, you know, and dishonesty and addiction was in there, and then me and my brother were just, as a kid. Yeah, as a kid, you just, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you as a kid. You just, you just, were not feeling the love. I see kids today and it just breaks my heart because. You're so impressionable at that time. You're born, you've got this love in you. You're looking for the joy and acceptance. You love your parents. And then, and there's little Richard not feeling it. You were meant to be loved. God designed us this way, but you weren't feeling it at all. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. And so that let, that leads you down a path. Uh, you start withdrawing, as you said, you lived in your head. Uh, which is actually a phrase that I've used before that I can relate to. And so you just kind of formed your own life, which started early. Getting into trouble, you said? I. Yeah. Taking drugs. Selling drugs. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Misbehaving. Yeah. Just, just getting in trouble. Were you skipping school, things like that? Or you just, just e Every, by the time I was about 15 or 16, I was skipping school, um, by the, when I was 13, I started with the drugs. Um, by the time I was 14, I was definitely taking something. To change the way I felt every day. Right. Um, selling very small amount of drugs by the time I was 14. Um, selling more drugs by the time I was 16, selling not insignificant amount of drugs by the time I was 19 or 20. Definitely. So you're feeling, and one thing you said your father had a another family. Yeah. So it came out. After my dad's death in 2020. I mean, we all knew there was an affair. Like that was obvious. Um, my mom knew she'd talk about it when she was drunk, um, about his affair. Yeah. Um, you know, my mom really was Allman who really like lived in the kind of victim position. Uh, and um, so she would sort of lament. Her situation and dad, and there was this other woman, and it was also terrible. And I mean, she would never actually do anything about any of this, but she was, but she was So you kids knew it, it was common knowledge. Yeah, it was known. And, but we didn't know the extent of it. We, you know, and then dad died and, and they, you know, his will was read and, um, and there was another house, you know, there was another, this other woman was named in there, and then clearing the house out. We found pictures and. You know, a little bit of kind of investigation and some kind of disclosures by a family friend, like, yeah, there's a daughter, you know, that I've got a half sister that I found out about like under a year ago, so, yeah, a lot of, A lot of secrets, man. A lot of secrets came out, you know? Have you met the sister? No, I reached out to the mom. That's whatever, mistress, a fair partner, whatever you wanna call her. Um, I, I tried to reach out to her via the solicitors.'cause you know, like the attorneys lot office that had to deal with, obviously this house that he shared with her and shared ownership of with her was part of his estate. So they, the solicitors had to deal with her. I asked them to. Ask if she would talk to me, you know? Um, just wanting to know. I don't know, just wanting to know, like, just wanted to kind of get some kind of understanding of who she was and, you know, that kind of thing. Um, you know, obviously it was a big part of my dad's life, um, and, uh, but yeah, she, she's never responded to those, those efforts to contact her. So there, there's been a couple, so I've never had the opportunity to speak to her or my sister. Was, uh, did, did that give you a feeling of rejection? Did you know that he was, had the affair? I guess you didn't know about the family until you got older. So you had already gone through a lot of life changes. It made grieving through him. Very complicated. You know, he died, he died quite tragically. He was 69. He had a huge stroke. Um, he died like four months later. You know, and he spent four months in the hospital severely, mentally and physically incapacitated. And it was a very, very difficult time for my family. Um, you know, it's shocking, awful, horrifying. And you're finding all of this out while this is happening. We found all of it out about two weeks after it had passed. So all of the grief, um. It just got mixed up with a load of anger, rejection, betrayal, and that was very complicated. And, and the other factor, pat, that made it, made it very tough was that, uh, we buried my father on the Wednesday and on the Friday. This was in March, 2020. So on the Friday, two days after his funeral, the UK went into the first national lockdown. And, uh, and then so, I mean, I could cry even just thinking about that, so, so sort of dealing with all of that grief in lockdown. Very isolated. Yeah, it was tough, man. It was a tough time Backing up in your teen years. While this was going on, as you're growing up, you know, under the violence and the lack of love in the house, you got into gang activities, selling drugs. You mentioned in there getting stabbed. And yeah, it weren't like, it was a lot, it was a lot tamer than that. Like, it, it just like, you know, selling drugs to friends, you know. Um, later on in my twenties I got stabbed. That was, I mean, really pat, I was just, I was, I. You know, I was selling drugs in more, significant quantities and, up to, you know, various kind of things really to make money. And, um, you know, there was, I was trying to collect some money that was owed to me and the people that owed it, um, weren't very through. It weren't. Happy about the way that I went about it. And, um, I, I love the way you tt about the way you were trying to collect their money. Yeah, so it was like a long story. I mean, ultimately the long, the truth, you know, I could make, I could talk about it and make it all sound very kind of like gangstery, right? But like the truth is like, I was a, basically in a world that I didn't belong in pretending to be something that I wasn't. And I got found out, you know, I was owed some money. I engaged like a debt collector, like quite a nasty but nasty person to go and collect that money. Um, he gave them 24 hours to pay. They didn't want to pay. Um, so, and like a group of men came to my front door and, um, I, you know, opened the front door was grabbed, beaten, put over the, well the bonnet of a car, I dunno what you call it, the hood of a car and stabbed in the, in the stomach area. Um, so yeah, that was in 2005. I was 25 years old. Oh, did you say you almost bled out? I didn't bleed out. Um, I was, I mean, it was a dangerous situation. Oh yeah. I had very serious internal injuries, like my intestines were sliced up and my pancreas and I, I ended up in hospital, um, a few hours later'cause I was high and drunk and I, you know, I didn't, I couldn't feel, I didn't feel any pain and I was full of, you know, booze and coke and bravado and, uh, I, I went. Found my friends in a bar, you know, told'em what happened. They, they were like, you need to go to the hospital. I was like, I'm fine. I'm not gonna hospital. And then a few hours later, um, yeah, just this incredible pain. Um, this kind of, it was very small stab wound. It was obviously a very deep knife wound. And, um, just trying to send a message. They were, they. They had had enough of you, they weren't just trying to send a message. They, they could have easily killed you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I was like, you know, the, the, um, the doctors that operated on me said it was, you know, close, you know, like kind of another half hour. It would've been beyond the point of no return through, through all of that, did you ever have. A feeling because through all the mine, which we'll get to in the next episode, there always seemed to be something there. You didn't grow up going into church, going to church, or have any relationship with God, or you're just out there on your own. You're not breeding by, you're not learning it. You're just out there. Was there ever, uh, anything that you just felt like something might have been looking over me? Not at a time on reflection. You know, I, um. There were times, uh, through my twenties where I would be, I would pray'cause I felt What caused you? What caused you to start praying? I just felt so lost, just felt like, like my life felt so out of control. So like I would kind of turn to something. I always had a belief I never felt, you know, when I look back on it, I think, yeah, I must have been being looked after in some way. I had an experience after I came, not long after I came into the faith where I was at a church in, uh, in West London where, uh, where the, the man who evangelized me, a, a guy called Dan Stanley, who is, it is just been such a huge. Part of my journey. How did you come to that man evangelizing you? Is what I'm getting is kind of what I'm getting at? Yeah, yeah. Like, well, that jumps about a bit Pat, like, let me just say this bit. So I was at this church and like this where there was a preacher from America and um, uh. She was doing, they, you know, I'd done the auto call at the end and, and, you know, everyone kind of queued up to go and see her. And, um, I was a bit more like reserved and self-conscious around my faith then, and I didn't really want to do it, but my friend kind of made me. And uh, and she took me by the hands, man. And she, and she, you know, she shut her eyes and, and, and she, she just said, it's like, I could cry saying this. She just said like, he's always been with you. Like he's always been with you. You just, you just need to like to let him in sort of thing. And um, you know, and that, yeah, I guess that's where I'm at with it now. Like, he was always there. That's what I'm, that's what I'm driving at through all of my struggles. And when I looked back, I started realizing because he was with you the day you were stabbed, he was with you when you were the struggling, struggling, Richard. Uh, but you what I was get, how did you first go to a church? Were you some, something is talking to you that got you to the person that's evangelizing you, that got you to the church? Just briefly, is it an individual or you're just thinking, I, this is something's pulling me to, to go to the church? Something's pulling me to look. I was like from a place of like brokenness, like, you know, like it says in the AA book, you know, beaten into a state of reasonableness, right? So like, I, um, was clean, but I was in the grip of, uh, quite a nasty sex addiction and I again, just reached a point of brokenness and, um. My friend Dan had been a Christian for a few years, was very much on that path, but he'd never, when I say evangelized me, in a way, pat did it without saying a word. Yeah. It was just the power of his example, you know? And, um. Then my sponsor at that time is still my sponsor now, actually. Um, he was also a Christian. Him and Dan were friends and they just saw that those, they just had something that I didn't have, you know, and, and, and it was very attractive to me. And, um, and then when I, you know, I was just really hit a rock bottom. With my sex addiction. And I phone down and said, you know, there was a Christian recovery group, um, we have a Christian recovery group over there called Believers in Recovery. And he was going to a believers meeting that night. And I called him and was like, where's the meeting? You know? And uh, and he told me and I went and I crawled in. That was, that was what brought me into faith ultimately, was that. That's what put you in a lot. And to back up to one thing, you kind of skipped past the, it was the dysfunctional, you know, quite a horrible childhood and then you quickly transitioned and you said, I. And then I got into my profession, started making a lot of money. I mean, you, you made a quick jump from almost dying on the street, uh, to becoming a very successful psychotherapist. How did you go from all of that to, uh. Ending up at Bath University? I've heard of that. Well, yeah. I mean, I did, there was a bit in the middle that I did mention it. It's like I walked through the doors of a 12 step meeting. That's the truth. At, at what age? 29. Yeah. 29. You went to university at 29. No, I went to university at 32. Uh uh, no, I went to university at 34. I went, I walked through the doors of my first 12 step meeting when I was 29. I got clean and stayed clean when I was 32, and then, so when I was two years clean, I took myself off to university and educated myself. As you were getting step, were you starting a relationship with God along the way that led you to university or you did that on your own? I've been through the steps, so obviously there's, you know, like I know the 12 steps are much more widely known in the US than they are here, uh, where it can still feel like a bit of a niche thing, but, um, it. Like I was open to spiritual matters. Yeah. I didn't have a Christian faith. I've heard the aa, the God that's described in the AA book, uh, called uh, like a pseudo Christian God because of the language they use in that book. That's probably where I was kind of at at the time. Yeah. So it wasn't the belief in Jesus actually quite resistant to the idea of Jesus, but open to the idea of God, you know? Um, I mean, I think that's an interesting point that'll, you know, that resistance to the idea of Jesus would be something for us to talk about later, but I, yeah. Well, yeah, we will. Because I have noticed you start talking to somebody about God and, and they're quick to, oh yes, I believe in God. Oh yeah. God's, when you say Jesus, the things kind of get quiet. They recoil. There's lot. Ooh. And it's like, what? Like, you know, like, okay, now I think what? Like, what is that all about? It's God. Oh, the man upstairs. Oh yes, I believe in God. Oh yes, I got, you know, but when you say Jesus, there's something about that, all of a sudden the room thickens up. So, yeah. And it's, I I think it's, um, just a word on that. I think it's remarkable when I look at it, right? It's like say in London, like say in, in, in Oxford Street or one, you know our big central shopping street, right? You have all different religions. Yeah. Right. You have people, you know, Harry Krishnas, like Islam, Buddhists, Hindus, giving out literature, at different times, giving out literature and so on and so forth. Now, like when I walked past them, this is before I came to Faith, when I walked past them. I knew they were different to me, but I didn't really, I didn't recoil from them when I saw a man on the corner with a sign saying Jesus saves, right? Like preaching. I recoiled from it right now. Like that, that really interests me and like, you know, the conclusion I come to is like, it's the enemy man. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like. Well, you're being controlled by the enemy and the enemy.'cause both of us up till that point, we're being controlled by, influenced by Satan. He's real. And so we're being influenced. And so when we hear that, you hear that, it's like, no, no, no. Back, back, back. You know, you can say the word God.'cause that can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. When you say Jesus, you've now gotten. Specific and what's ruling our lives. All of a sudden, you've just mentioned the enemy, so that's probably what it is. Uh, we're getting a little short on time because, uh, the lovely Phoebe young one said, you, you have a meeting to run to. Uh, but I want, so you end up. It, it's very remarkable that you did all this on your own. You kept fighting, you kept working to overcome. I, you should be incredibly proud. You're 29 something years old. You're not throwing your hands in the air. You keep going back, keep fighting, you keep you getting in the ditch and coming back and keep pursuing a life. Personally, I think. God's in your life. Jesus in your life. He was watching you all of your life, but you make this determination, you go to school. Bath I've heard of Bath University and I Googled it, that only 10% of the applicants get admitted to Bath. And you're one of those, so you had a lot on the ball and there was a lot of hard work that went, all that went into all of that. So you were always striving to, overcome and so as you go through this, you become a successful professional. You get married, the void is still there because we're all meant to be loved. It's there, the void is there. You're not feeling the love, the things keep manifesting themselves in your life. Correct. So you keep the destruction. You're upwardly mobile in your life. You are pursuing it, but that void is still there. You haven't really accepted Jesus. Then you end up in the desert in Arizona where you meet the man who introduces you. To the guy that changes your life? Is that what happened? Yeah. Like, so there was, I'd come to faith, like I'd been baptized. Yeah. Like, but it, it was like, you know, an old FM radio and you tune it in and you just can't get the frequency, you know, so it's. And you can hear the voice, but it's just not quite there. Right? So it was like, it was a bit like that, right? Like things had changed for me. Like I knew that, that I knew that, you know, I just knew that Jesus was the son of God, that he died on the cross Christ sins, that he rose again three days later and ascended to sit with a father, right? I knew that to be true and I got baptized on that basis, but I was still riddled with, um, with compulsive sexual behavior is the truth, you know? And, um, and then so that caused a huge. Explosion in my life and it was very painful and you know, very painful for the people around me, you know, including my, my ex-wife, and, um. Then I went to Arizona and that was where things really started to change, you know, that's where things really started to change. And that, that's, that's really where the story, that's really where it, it picks up some pace. Not that, I mean obviously I think you got, you think it's got quite a bit of pace anyway, but, um, it, it's pace there. Richard, you dropped a few bombs along the way. Uh, as I said, yeah, go ahead. Change again when we get to Arizona for sure, man. Well, it changed when you had that moment that we talked about, like in my book where you just gave it all up. Let Jesus come into your life. And that's led us to this moment and it's led you to the peace and the happiness, and that's what we're trying to share with everyone else. Uh, you've had a moment that you realized all your life, young Richards sitting in that house in his tears and all of his stress and all of his pain. He was there, he was watching, he was there when you were bleeding. He was making sure that blade didn't touch the right, uh, the right organ, and he was with you the entire time and just waiting. And that's the way I. God works. That's the way Jesus works. He's waiting for you. But, but he was, whoever told you that he was with you all your life and we'll illustrate how he was with me in the next episode. So, he was there and I, there's probably some people out there that can relate to your story a little bit. They might have missed out on the almost bleeding out and the father with the second family. But the same struggles. So. Alright, appreciate you sharing that, rich. I will, talk to you next week and, hopefully the sun has its hat on and you can have a lovely weekend in the UK and, uh, love you man. Talk to you next time. I. Nice one. Watch out for those tornadoes, pat. See you next time. I, we have shelters. We hide when they come. Right. Excellent. Yeah, we have trailers and we have trailers underground to help us not get hit by the trailers flying through the air when the tornadoes come. So all the essentials in there. You've got the moonshine, still got merch ban, spare banjo strings. Yeah, exactly. Keep us up. Not a jerky. That's it. Alright brother. Alright, see you next time. See you next time. Bye mate. Take care. Bye.