Episode: Spiritual Warfare

Our hosts speak to the nature of spiritual warfare: what it is, what it means, and how to win the battle.

Transcript

Pat: 0:21

And welcome to two Unlikely Christians podcast. I'm comedian Pat McCool coming to you from the banks of a lake deep in the Piney Woods of South Mississippi. And to my co-host across the pond in Oxford, England, esteemed psychotherapist and addiction specialist Richard ll. Richard, how you doing, man?

Rich: 0:45

Hey, pat. I'm all right, man. I'm doing okay. Doing all right. This side of the pond. Um. Are you? How? How's

Pat: 0:51

Um,

Rich: 0:52

how you been you been humping today?

Pat: 0:54

Not hunting. I haven't, uh, you know, I haven't, uh, I've tried to tell you I'm not a hunter, but I'm glad I got some in my family, just in case something. Matter of fact, I capture roaches and soap boxes and take'em outside. I can't kill anything, so. The, uh, I noticed you're looking at me. Kind of funny there with that, so

Rich: 1:12

thought might, I automatically assumed you were gonna say you tortured them.'cause that, that's, that's never a

Pat: 1:18

No, no,

Rich: 1:18

never a good

Pat: 1:19

I'm just, I'm, I'm just not a killer. I can't kill anything. My wife looks at me like I'm the biggest idiot in the world. I'm like, I can't kill anything struggling. I'm the guy blowing the horn trying to tell Bambi that there's some collar green eating country boy coming across, the hill with his F-150. So, uh, but now I will eat the steak. I will eat it all day long and, and speak.

Rich: 1:43

would you make jerky out of the cockroaches?

Pat: 1:50

I be onto something. Might be on, you know, I did used to eat jerky all of the time. Back when I was lifting weights and taking protein and eating jerky. Uh, and, uh, let's say it, it caused me to develop a severe problem with. With my lower GI systems, I had to give up the jerk there. So haven't done. Oh, and speaking of Collard Green Inc. And Country Boys, I'm starting to get in trouble hanging out with you because I just told a guy that he had a lovely new Ford one F-150. Now, that might not seem odd on the streets of Oxford. But in Mississippi walking around telling somebody they have a lovely truck, can get you, uh, can get you some. The guy just looked at me and just got in the truck and drove away because I've noticed You see? Yeah, you see you. Brits are you made quite an impression. Because Americans, go to England, start hanging out with British people. We start speaking with an accent. You know, I'm out in the heat. Like, oh my, the humidity is killing my respiratory system with Madonna, marries guy Richie, and six months later is talking like she grew up in nodding hill. I, I've noticed you don't get off the plane in New Orleans and go, Hey gw, pat, how y'all doing?

Rich: 3:09

It's'cause it, it's'cause it's our language pattern. See? And then essentially you are our subject. So when you are around us, you automatically, it's like an inbuilt sort of like deference, you know? Like, like you become like us.'cause you realize that essentially we own you. Yeah.

Pat: 3:26

It's in our DNAI see. Well that, that makes sense. Well, it's getting like said, I don't know. I don't know if the guy told he had a lovely truck. It's gonna speak to me again.

Rich: 3:36

I, I'm surprised I didn't get links, man. Do you know what I mean? Uh.

Pat: 3:40

No, we had to give that up quite a while back, so, uh. We wanna thank everybody that's listening to us today'cause we have a fantastic topic. And it is called spiritual warfare. And it's spiritual warfare is something that everybody, every non-believer deals with and every, um. Every believer deals with, if you're a non-believer, you're in a spiritual warfare, you're just losing it because you haven't realized that the truth about Jesus, if you are a believer, Uh. you are battled every day because the warfare is really real because you're being attacked by an enemy. And so today, that's what we're gonna discuss and we'll let, Richard get started

Rich: 4:20

pat. Thanks man. So look, I thought this was a really nice topic. Like as a new Christian coming in, I think I, uh, and I see lots of people that have it, is that like I. idea that you're gonna come, you're gonna kind of come in, you find Jesus, you know, have that experience of like grace, love, forgiveness, mercy, all of that, you know, compassion, salvation, all of those things. And everything's gonna be all right. You know, you're gonna feel good. Like wake up every day, you know, sunshine. Glitter rainbows, everything's gonna be just, just akay. And, and actually it's not the case. I mean, that's not real life anyway, I don't think. But once I started to understand what spiritual warfare was, you know, and that idea and how it manifests and has, has manifested in my life as a Christian and. Quite a lot. I really started to understand what I was up against, the spiritual warfare one. One definition would be ongoing battle between good and evil, particularly between the kingdom of God and the forces of darkness, and that there's a scripture reference here. Which is Ephesians 6 12 4. We're not fighting against flesh and blood enemies, against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world against mighty powers in this dark world. against evil

Pat: 5:39

Yeah.

Rich: 5:40

in the heavenly places. So for me, like obviously keen to hear your experience with this pack, but like for me it's like, you know, you, you, you spoke there about, you know, if you're a non-believer, you are in it, you just don't know you're in it. And if you're a believer, hopefully you know you're in it essentially.'cause,'cause you, you're gonna be in it one way or another. So when I was active in,

Pat: 6:03

Yeah.

Rich: 6:03

addictions and, you know, live in a very, um. Like deprived way of life, essentially, you know, taking and selling drugs, doing all the things I was doing, like I'm in it, but it doesn't feel like I'm in it. I dunno, I'm in it.'cause like, I'm just surrounded by darkness, right? It's like the devil's got, you know, the devil's got his hand like, well and firmly on the tiller of my life, like 100% he's calling the shots, right? I'm in it, I'm surrounded by it, I'm doing his work essentially, right? Like, so. The battle is less noticeable. The conflict is less noticeable when I come to Christ and have that personal experience of being in Christ, like having a personal relationship with him. You know, understanding the love, the mercy, you know, well that stuff. Understanding how loved I am, understanding I'm forgiven, know, it's touching that infinite grace and goodness and beauty and love. Then all of a sudden I notice the attacks. Right. And the attacks come in many different ways. Like it, that can be, it's the sudden burst of anger that comes from nowhere. You know, it's the resentment, it's the, you know, in prayer that resentment that all of a sudden just thunders into my head and knocks me out of contact with God. You know, it's the greed, you know, it's the fear, it's the anxiety, it's the, um, a bit of work and then, and getting into this real panic. I'm not gonna have a, you know, forgetting that actually I'm provided for and I'm, you know, I'm looked after well, you know, like, God didn't bring me this far to a abandon me now. You know, all those kind of things. Like it shows up in all these different ways and it shows up in addictions as well. And I don't just mean the obvious ones, like drug addictions and stuff that plagued me for many years, but in all of the lower level addictions that we are all in. You know, like smartphones, social media, buying things, getting the next flat screen tv, getting in the next, you know, truck. I know you were joking about that, but, you know, needing the bigger truck. For me it's like been like, German, pass off. I need, you know. What I need is, I need a better BMW, you know, I need a better watch. You know, like, I like Pat, I had six watches at one point. I've got, I've got two wrists and I can only want to wear a watch on one of them. Do you know what I mean? Like, but it's that need, that need that hunger, you know, all that stuff. That's all, it all falls into kind of the, um, the, the, bracket of spiritual warfare. Right? And then. Because it's an ongoing war. War. It's like the devil. I'll tell, I'll tell you how was explained to me, right? But like how it explained to me is like the, A thief doesn't come to rob an empty house, right? So for me, like actually the closer I've come to God, like the more I've developed the relationship with Jesus and those moments where like I felt so close to him, it's like I could almost feel his hand on my shoulder or feel, know, feel his embrace around me, right? Those will be my, those will be the moments that I often followed by the hardest attacks. You know, well, I will doubt. never really lost my faith, but like sometimes I'll, doubt my own worthiness, I'll doubt my ability to follow through. You know, I'll doubt know, that I, know, I don't lose my faith that he's real, but I, I might, I might, Lose faith in the fact that I'm good enough to be loved by him. You know, whatever it might be. But that's like something coming in to separate me. Some kind of dark message comes in to separate me. And so that's, you know, I guess that in a nutshell, that's me, like on a day-to-day basis, that's what spiritual warfare looks like. You know? What about you, pat?

Pat: 9:41

Yeah, well that's a perfect illustration because the devil's the great tormentor, the it is the great torment. He wakes up every morning and he starts firing arrows at you. Now remember, most, all of the problems in today's world, almost every problem stemmed from what. One lie he told one lie to one person. He told one lie to eve and that sent everything in motion. So you think he's going to stop lying? No. What he's doing is he's lying to us. He's lying to you every morning. He wants you to be miserable. You know there's a scripture that says what God wants us to do once we start following hims to go out and share where you're not out sharing the gospel. When you're miserable and you're tormented, and you mentioned a couple of words. Um, one was, resentment. He causes you to resent other people that he put into your life. And I have so many examples. Um. Of all the things, you know, we covered in the other episodes and we both know each other's stories. Of all the miracles that I had gone through, uh, bullets flying at me, coming out of wrecked cars, uh, not paying attention to school, and he gave me all of these incredible blessings. And then I would get, I would, I'd get into the business world and forget all of that, of all of those things that would happen. I've had, situation after situation. Where he would perform a co. You know, there's a chapter in my book called, what a Coincidence. You don't remember everything that's in there, but, uh, there was just so many coincidences. I'm being sarcastic because you, it was just like, yeah, these aren't coincidences. This is God in my life. And he does it all the time. But I would have a week go by. Where these miracles happen. And then I, you sit down on Friday and you just celebrate him. You know, God is so good. Look what he did and look how he took care of this. And look at all the blessings.'cause you're counting your blessings on Friday. And then I would wake up on Monday morning, I. And completely forget everything that was in my head 48 hours earlier, because the devil is sitting there waiting to torment you. He's shooting arrows at you all of the time. And you're talking about rage. When I first got married, uh. God had, had, had orchestrated just the, the perfect woman. I've been married 35 years. I didn't know her at the time, but we fought like cats and dogs. I had, I was this rageaholic, I all, you know, just angry, ready to fly off on a handle. Uh, and because you feared losing what you had. Well, God gave it to you. God gave you all of these things. You're sitting there listening to the devil saying, yeah, well you might could lose this. You might could lose that. And he's making you, he's making you resent people around you. My wife for example, he's always was, was trying to convince me she was something that she was not. My wife after, in our first few years of marriage, we fought like cats and dogs. I mean brutal screaming, uh, fights. And I would notice, started noticing,, I would get up and go, this woman gets up every morning and does things and I'm not even asking her to do, to start trying to taking care of me. I started paying attention. It took a while, but the devil was trying to destroy that. It's just like he's trying to destroy you. He's trying to hurt you. And you mentioned, uh, rage and resentment. I know people that are very dear to me that will, that, that are knocking li they are punching life in the face and I'm referring to women here. They have children, husbands, families, they get up and I am just amazed at what they do on a regular basis. But I've also noticed that they're constantly stressed out. About what you just said, not getting approval, not doing the right thing. What if I don't do this? What if I don't do that? Uh, my wife used to stress all of the time, and it took us years to get past this of me getting mad about her not being what she's supposed to be or doing all, all of this. Well, it wasn't me in the beginning. I might have given off those vibes, but that's Sadie. That is literally nothing from the pits of hell. That's attacking us every single day that We get up in the morning. Because the O you know the other scripture, the devil is the great tormentor. That's what he's trying to do. If you are not a Christian, he's trying to keep you from being one. But once you become one, and the more you start following God, the more lessons you have, the more you can make an impact and show other people, and the more difference that you can have in a life, like it could be a mother with children that's doing just a, an incredible job. I see people in my life that I'm just amazed at how well that they handle life. They're tougher than I am. You know, women are tougher than us. Rich, If you don't know that, wait till the woman gets sick. You know, and you don't know it. Because my wife would get up and she would work five days a week, take care of everything, and then, and she'd say, I got a headache. I'm not doing so well. I'm not, you know, and I'm, I'm thinking maybe she's got a little cold and then six days later I get it and I'm not get I, you know, I'm, I'm calling the family around. Let's get everybody, let's get everybody in here because I don't know if I'm gonna make it through this.

Rich: 15:10

Yeah,

Pat: 15:10

know?

Rich: 15:11

the same We got the

Pat: 15:12

Yeah.

Rich: 15:12

over here. Yeah.

Pat: 15:14

Oh God, this could be it. Let's get everybody in for the final goodbyes. Well, the women in my life and I, and I'm bringing them up specifically. Are some of the most toughest and amazing people. Um, and my wife has a sister. I don't that that's just like that. These people are tough. They're punching life in the face. They spend their every waking moment I. Trying to help take care of, not that that's their job to do it, they just do it. They're literal rock stars, but they get up on Monday morning and walk around, stressed out because they're afraid. They're all those things you just mentioned. I'm not good enough. I'm not getting the approval, you know, the, I'm, no, they're not trying to get approval, but, you know, I wanna be approved of, I don't, you know, you as a psychotherapist may know this, you know something that goes all the way back. To childhood. Uh, I don't know if that's where that comes from, but the devil uses that. The devil is constantly telling them, I'm always amazed. I'm trying to tell them, you're rock stars. God loves you and gave you all this blessing and you're not able to enjoy it because he is beating you up on a daily basis and he's lying to you.'cause that's what he is. He's the great deceiver. Uh, and he's a tormentor and that's what he's trying to do. He's just trying to torment you. I just. Had a conversation with a guy that was getting ready to go on a, a job interview, and he's all stressed out because somebody in his life was telling him, uh, somebody that, that should have been a supportive person in his life and should have been an example to him. It always kind of beaten him down because this guy was a bit of a bit of a failure. Well, since I'm not mentioning who the guy is, it, it was his father. And this guy's all stressed out. So I start talking to him. He tell me a little bit about your life, and then he starts telling me all of the things he's overcome. Now, you and I have overcome bullets and stabbings and the drugs and addiction, but the average person that didn't go through that. They've overcome, amazing and very tough situations. And this guy starts telling me about the tough family situation and all of these things and how he loved God and how God was always there for him and how he was the most important thing for him. And he said, no matter what's happened, I all, you know, and growing up in my family, no matter what happened, I could always depend on God. And then I just looked at him and I said, did you hear what you just said? You've always been able to depend on the Lord, and now you're about to have a panic attack about whether this job interview and this job is the right thing because somebody who hasn't set a good example is tearing you down. Well, the devil's using that person. Sometimes the devil speaks you himself. Sometimes he use, he uses other people, but that's what he's trying to do. He's trying to destroy us. He's trying to tear us down, and he shouts. That's the thing. God gave us this book. He gave us the Bible. So in the Bible, it's not just a book. We think of it as the book, and we think of it as just as this scripture, but it's him talking to us and he talks softly. We have to go to him. But the devil doesn't wait. The devil's screaming in our ears on a regular basis and every morning, but everything you said, that was pretty much a brilliant summation. If people just understood that we are in a spiritual warfare. It's not you. It's not that you are not doing the right. Thing, and it's just, oh, this is just the way I am. Oh, I'm a person that freaks out easy and all this. And I, and I watch these people, I'm like, you don't freak out easy. When the chips are down, you handle everything. You handle it masterfully. You are just convinced in your head by this evil spirit that you're not doing right. And the fear, oh, what if I don't do this? What if this doesn't happen? What if this what? You know, what if this goes wrong? Um, it's all a lie from Satan.

Rich: 19:07

Yeah, let me come in with some scripture, pat. So, uh, one Peter there's, there's a couple of, there's some verses, but I'm actually gonna read them in reverse, so like. Verse one Peter five, eight says, staler, watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He plowed around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. And so for me, what that looks like is like. Know, like, so I've, you know, I'm in a relationship with a, you know, an amazing Christian woman and um, you know, sometimes she's just does the most amazing, kind, thoughtful things. Yeah. And in those moments, like I feel so close to her, I feel so blessed. I feel so grateful to God for putting this woman in my life. And that mean that's the whole story in that, right. But like, how we ended up together. But, um. And I'll just have that moment where I can just, you know, and I just know, I just know Pat, you know, that we're gonna do great things together for the kingdom. Yeah. then his voice in my head coast. Yeah. But what about the other night when she said that thing? You know? Or like, like. And, and it goes on from there. But where it can get to is like, it can get quite dark, right? Like it can get to, you know, to a point where I'm just kind of building a case against her almost, it's almost like a voice. That is not my own right. Or it's certainly the, the original thought, you know, there's little kind of nuggets that just dropped in, like, are not my own, right. And that, and I've had those experiences where, and it might sound to the uninitiated, it might sound like schizophrenic or something, but it's, it's like, it's really not right. But like, well, like these, these thoughts are running and organizing themselves around facts which are real, right? But like. I don't believe this, and yet this tape continues to play, you know, and it's like you, like, you know, sort of the, the devil p prs around, like looking for a way in it. And he said something some minutes ago, pat. You know where those, you know, those women in your family, you know, they're like rockstar, you know, they're crushing life and all the rest of it, but they, they have all these insecurities and stuff. Like, then you refer to obviously my kind of background and knowledge and training as a psychotherapist, right? So where I've, I've come to how I've come to think of that, you know, through the process of being a psychotherapist, but also being a Christian, is that that the, the wounding, the trauma. You know, the, the, the difficult adverse stuff that happens to us when we're, when we're little, right? Um, it's like it, those things, like they leave the craps in us, in our psyche that the devil gets in through, you know what I mean? And they put, they've given the material that he works with, you know, and if you look at the most. Horrifically tortured souls, you know, psychotic, schizophrenic, you know, you can see in their madness, right? How the, the things that happened to them are like twisted and distorted and projected and. Like they, they're worst fears like used against them, you know? So I was doing some reading about intrusive thoughts the other day. Right. uh, read a description, it wasn't a super clinical textbook, but I was reading this description of an intrusive thought and it said intrusive thoughts were often play on your darkest fears about yourself. Yeah. They'll speak to you in a voice that sounds like they're your own. Right. They will say things to you that are terrifying. Yeah, and it will make you question like your own, you know, whether you are an evil person, you know, stuff like that. You know, really intrusive thoughts. Right? And I've worked professionally with people that have had intrusive, you know, very severe, intrusive thoughts, right? And you think about that description, you know, it uses your worst fears against you. You know, like speaks to in a voice that sounds like your own, but it isn't, you know, and it's like, and part of work with people that suffer in that way is to help them to kind of dis-identify with that, to realize it isn't them. I dunno about you, mate, but to me that sounds like the devil. You know, like, oh yeah, that's what, you know, that's what we're kind of up against. But the other bit of scripture that I wanted to read is actually just above that one, Peter five, six, and seven. It says So, so humble yourselves under the mighty power of God. at the right time, he will lift you up in honor, give all your worries and cares to God for he cares about you. You know? And sometimes for me, you know, like I can be an anxious guy, pat, right? Sometimes it's like I need to get, I need to give them to God and then I'll take them back and I need to give them back to him. And then I'll take them back and then I need to give them back to him and then I'll take them back. But like, if I can, if I can keep him front and center. Then I can survive. You know, I can kind of get through and I don't have to full praise to the attacks, to the worries, to the fears, the anxieties, right? Um, and there's a bit, just as we talk, like, um, this just occurs to me. So it says in, in verse six, there, humble yourselves under the mighty power of God. At the right time, he will lift you up in honor. So at the end of Romans, Paul talks about, I'm just finding it in my Bible. It's not on the scripture, but there's the bit of the end of Romans where, um, Paul talks about like having a thorn in his side. Yeah. That he asked God to remove. He asked God to remove three times. Yeah. And then what the Lord turned around and said to me is like, grace should be sufficient for you. sometimes I think that has, for me, there's, there has to be, sometimes that's suffering and able to suffer through an attack, with, but know, like, know that I'm protected, that I'm cared for, that no weapon formed against me can prosper. And being able to withstand that attack actually is a, that is a, that is something that builds my faith, you know? That's like flexing my spiritual muscles, you know, because his grace is sufficient for me,

Pat: 25:18

Yeah, it's the struggle. I've learned to trust God by all of the struggles that I've been through. All of those things, uh, that you've been through, that I've been through, and the people that are listening have been through incredible things that themselves that have built their faith to know. That they should be following God, that they should be listening, that they should have a way of getting up. They have a way of pay of every morning. Paying attention to God has blessed me, I have his grace everywhere, and this is what I'm living with. Look at my children, look at my family, look at my, everything that, that I've done. But the devil is constantly the one that's trying to tear you down. But what you just said. Is perfect. It's learning to lean on God and he will, you mentioned something earlier. He uses everything in our lives all the way back to our childhood. I, for some reason, I have this memory of everything going back to through my childhood. And he uses that to bring that up to wound you. You know? I think, Um. When you and I first met in our conversation, I was asking you, I was like, you know, I run into people that have, you know, with addictions and things. I think I said, I think it, a lot of it stems from not feeling loved and they don't realize that they have a heavenly father. That it's not just, these aren't just phrases. We have a heavenly father, creator of the earth that we're gonna spend eternity with. That's watching us, loves us, is protecting us just like we protect our own children. But the devil wants us to forget about that, and he constantly reminds us, just like when I met my wife, uh, I think I told you when I got married within a hundred days in a double wide trailer. That should make you, you should be proud of this. We,

Rich: 27:02

Oh, oh, don't you worry, pat. I, I, I've noted that down. I was gonna come back to that point, but please, you go on.

Pat: 27:10

Yeah, 100 days. I got married in a double wide trailer and the guy went out and showed us his goats and uh, he had the goats and the donkeys and we picked up a box of, uh, I think Kentucky Fried Chicken and, That was, uh, that was 35 years ago. But I moved in because when I met my wife, this was the best looking woman that had ever, most beautiful woman that had ever given me the time of day. Now, you know, I. I didn't know. I just, I, I probably moved for superficial reasons, but I'm like, I, you know, I, before she finds out that I don't have a fortune stashed in the Caymans and I haven't saved children from burning buildings and whatever other nonsense I'm telling her I've gotta go make the deal. So what do you think the devil does once we get married? He starts reminding me of childhood and, and teenage years, and he's reminded me a couple of times when I almost got married. And I got dumped, and it was the end of the world. When I got dumped, it was, oh, I have no reason to live. I was like, I can't believe this. I'm destroyed. I, I thought I loved this woman. Well, it turned out to be the, some of the biggest bullet dodging in my life. It was like, do you see what would've happened had you found, I had this, I knew when you were born. That this was going to work out and you were gonna meet this woman, but the devil comes in and says What you were referring to a minute ago, the devil starts coming in and going, oh, that's it. This is too good to be true. Oh, you know, she doesn't, uh, you know, something you'd said earlier, oh, well she said this, or she does that, or what? The devil was constantly trying to ruin this relationship. Constantly, and he does it with other people that have been married for a long time that don't even think that's happening. You mentioned the word resentment. A woman or a man or somebody that's constantly trying to make sure everybody in their family's taken care of and their spouse, oh my gosh. I hear, oh my gosh, if this happens, so and so will be so upset. You've just put that in your head. The devil's just telling you because what he's doing is he's making you resent that person. Because you're all stressed out trying to make, trying to make them happy and things like that. And yeah, he literally almost destroyed a marriage that's 35 years going with. Three children, eight grandchildren and Joy. Oh, and my wife was a Church of God, pastor's daughter who really led me on the straight and narrow. If I hear one more time, you need to talk to Jesus about that. That's her thing. When I got into comedy and I would get ready to ride, Hey, what do you think about this bit? You think this is a little too, uh, why don't you talk to Jesus about your little urologist joke. But the point is all this joy and peace and happiness and all that you have, I mean, when I met you. It was, uh, just to tell the quick story. You and I met and we had this conversation. We had this bond over something. We just started talking and we hit it off, and we both had this desire to help other people. Well, we did not know we were Christians. We,

Rich: 30:20

Yeah,

Pat: 30:21

we did not know that we were Christians. I'm talking to this guy from London. I know England is not, it's not the Bible belt. And so you and I are talking and we just, we, there was something in common. So we started talking back and forth and kind of continued our conversation and you knew I do, I'm a comedian, but I also do some speaking. I give my testimony and I was saying, I, you know, I do. Also do speaking. I wrote a book and I try to help people. I do my comedy act and things like that, but I never said it was testimony you said. Yeah, I had a desire to help. So we were gonna get together and we were gonna have, uh, a convers, you know, just continuing our conversation. I'm think I'm kind of putting it off'cause I'm like, I gotta tell this guy that I'm a Christian and my ultimate solution to all my peace and all my problems, it all comes from my relationship with Jesus. So we go a couple of months, maybe it was six months before we finally talked, and I immediately was like, well, I this And I, you looked up and went, are you a Christian? Are you a Christian? Oh, I'm too. And then we lit up. But see, the devil's telling me, yeah, this guy not going to, yeah, he's not going to accept the faith and this, that you're what you're saying. But it was the genesis of our whole conversation. But you see, it's the spiritual warfare. Is the devil saying, no, you're not good enough. No, don't go talking to somebody about Jesus. Don't go talking to somebody about God. And my relationship with you is a great blessing in my life. And the devil tried to prevent that and he does it. And everything we are doing in life, go ahead.

Rich: 31:56

And the thing is, if you don't know that that's what's going on, then it just becomes the truth. Like your wife is a whatever, you know, whatever you wanna, you know. She does need to go actually, yeah, she needs to go. You know what I mean? Like she just hits Henry to go and talk to Jeez. Like, what? You need to go, you do. Yeah. Or like, you know, you do need, you know, like your ass isn't good enough or big enough and you do need that car and that person is a, you know what, you know, and you do need to go and punch that guy in the face. You know, like, because you dunno. That's what you're, you're dealing with. Yeah. Like, you don't know that's what you are dealing with. And some of that's, you know, some, the world gives us some of those ideas anyway. Right. But yeah, that's that spiritual warfare aspect to it. And it's like if you don't know, if you don't know you're under attack, it's like if you're a general in a war and you don't even know that you're under attack, you ain't gonna do too well, right. So I think, you know, recognizing. in the spiritual walk. No, the nature of spiritual warfare and what it is, is, I mean, there's a, there's an opportunity for freedom, growth, and healing and understanding that's what's happening to you, as you grow. The further I've got into my faith walk and like as I've come, you know, I mean, you sort of hit on this earlier, but it's like as my, when my faith is really bubbling up, and I'm really close to. Doing things that are really gonna kind of grow the kingdom is often when I experience the worst attacks, you know? yeah.

Pat: 33:24

because

Rich: 33:24

just, I guess

Pat: 33:25

You alluded to it earlier, you're a high value target. So the closer you get to living life and peace, joy, and happiness, the more attacks that you're going to have, the more arrows. I mean it literally, you can see the evil spirit shooting an arrow at you, just every negative thought that's coming in your head. It is an arrow and the more you, the closer you come to living the way God has intended you to live, to have joy, peace, and happiness, and you're sharing that doesn't have to be verbally, but it's the way that you're living, that he's trying to make you miserable. You are always on the cusp of being attacked and Satan's always there and he does it to everybody. And people just need to understand, uh, you hit the nail on the head. And I think we can wrap it with this, that everyone is in a spiritual warfare. I think it's brilliant what you said. We just don't realize we're in a spiritual warfare. Once I started realizing, I'm like, I just, I can laugh it off. I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. When I start hearing these voices. When these attacks come, and when Satan says these things, I just laugh it off. Once you realize you're in a spiritual war, I. The wars won. Jesus won the war. All you gotta do is just get on the right side. And if it's scripture, if it's something you need to. read, it's just reminding yourself, it's walking with Jesus. They talk about this, walking with Jesus, or you're gonna walk over here. And that's what we do. We get up on Monday morning and we just start walking around without the shield, without the full armor of God, which you mentioned a minute ago. And we could be living joyful. Peaceful, far more productive lives if we were not listening to the devil. And one last thing I wanna say, do you know there's one phrase repeated in the Bible, 365 times.

Rich: 35:22

Oh, you're gonna embarrass me now, pat.

Pat: 35:25

No, No, I'm not trying to, I'm not Richard. Listen.

Rich: 35:28

no, it's No, no, no. I know you're not trying it. Go on.

Pat: 35:31

Uh, no, I'm not. Your ability to remember scripture is phenomenal. Nobody would, you know, nobody would really pick up on this i'm amazed at how you remember scripture. My, here's my. When we talk, I jot. Yeah. I gotta jot down and write down, and then I can't write, so I can't read what I wrote. So, you're perfect with the scripture, but there's one phrase in the Bible that's repeated 365 times. Do not be afraid. It's not a verse, it's in the Bible. He repeats it 365 times. Is it a coincidence that it's 365 times that he repeats it? I think not. He repeats it 365 times because we need it 365 times because fear, it is the root of everything. Fear is the root of our anxiety. Fear of not doing the right thing for my family, fear of not coming through, fear of not being enough. This is what I see in these women in my life that could turn around and tell us, man, just go shut up and go do it yourself. And we would go on and do it. But they think they've gotta come living up to somebody. It's just like you do it and just like everybody does it. But he says 365 times in the Bible, and that's what the Bible is. It's God talking to us. Do not be afraid. We shouldn't be afraid. And we, Jesus won the spiritual war and we need to walk in the grace and the peace that he's given us. So if you have any final thoughts there, rich.

Rich: 37:11

Chuck, you know, you mentioned about like scripture or reading, whatever, but just prayer man. Do you know what I mean? Like that's the, that's the weapon, you know? It's like it's our way of getting. Arm it up, you know, so the essential part of the armor, you know what I mean? So we, you know, we use the word of God is the sword, in the spiritual armor. So that's our weapon. But prayer as well, man. You know, like, so like just taking it to, just leaving it the foot of the cross, if you dunno what that means, if you're listening, we dunno what that means. It's just like, like Pat said about, you know, the battles won. He won the battle. Jesus won the battle. Like the lie is dead, right. So, you know, that was done on the cross know, if you dunno what that means, it stick around, it will become clear. So we leave our worries and we leave our fears and you know, we, our struggles, we leave it at the foot of the cross. And for me, and I had a very, I was praying this week and I just, I just kind of imagine myself really like, just lie like kind of on my like hands and knees, like just at the foot of the cross, fucking his shadow Yeah, just the awesome power that's there. It's like the, you know, the, the being that like blown the stars into the sky is hanging a few feet above me, and like that, the awesome power that's there, you know? And so that's where, that's where the battles won was one is one continues to be one. We just gotta get up, just gotta get near it, you know? And somewhere in that submission. Prayer is a great way of submitting. Somewhere in that submission, we,

Pat: 38:50

Well, that's ultimately

Rich: 38:51

we

Pat: 38:51

prayer

Rich: 38:52

Yeah.

Pat: 38:53

if you're talking to God. You can't hear Satan, you can't hear those voices. One thing you reminded me of was I noticed years ago that I would pray a lot when I was, uh, like laying in the bed and I would start praying and I would be stressed, you know, order where I'm praying about and I would fall asleep in the middle of my prayer. And I started thinking, boy, that's, you know, I'm, I'm trying to pray to God how disrespectful I'm praying, but I'm falling asleep while I'm praying. And then it dawned on me. When I say dawned on me, I feel this came from God. I'm not one of those that say God told me, but I feel like that's what this explanation, what was happening. It's when you start praying to God. Then the peace comes in, the Holy Spirit takes over. You have Holy Spirit in you. we all, we're all filled with the Holy Spirit. We have as much Holy Spirit as the people on the day of Pentecost. It's just as much that we use. So you start talking to God, you're praying, and then the peace comes over me. So when that peace comes over me. I fall asleep because I'm not listening to Satan telling me What happens if this doesn't work out and you've gotta do this and you've gotta get ready for this. Oh, and you remember this? Oh, and you remember back in the sixth grade, you should have punched that kid in the face. All that crazy stuff leaves when you're talking to God. So prayer. Is the answer. but I know people that get up on a daily basis that don't, if just keep God, you don't have to sit down and go in the CLO at that you need. That's very beneficial. But if you just wake up in the morning and going, I'm walking with Jesus today, walking with God, and I'm just thinking, and those scriptures, remember that's how that scripture that impacted me, What you said about that day in South Africa when you were really kind of coming through some things and you pulled that scripture out and it changed everything right there. But just put the word of God in your hands. Keep it with you. Walk with you and think about it. God's won the battle. Stop living a miserable life and a tormented life because the same. Person that lied to Eve all those years ago that caused all these problems, has now turned his focus to you, and all the negative stuff that's going in your head is all coming from him. All the positive that you can look around and actually see the reality, that's God, and that's what you should focus on. So Rich, it was a great talk. Uh, I know we're late in the evening over there and you've got plans, so I hope you have a good time and uh, we will, uh, talk to you next week.

Rich: 41:41

Yeah. God bless you, pat. Good being with you,

Pat: 41:43

Alright,

Rich: 41:43

Take care. Bye.

Pat: 41:45

you too. God bless everyone else out there. Take care.