Ep 7: Overcoming

Richard gives advice on beginning and following through on the 12 step program to recovery. Then Pat tells the amazing story of Michael Abernathy. Who was institutionalized after a traumatic brain injury left him unable to take care of himself. Everyone gave up on him, but he and God had other plans. 

Transcript

0:23

Good morning, rich. Good afternoon, pat. So where you at today? You in Oxford or London or South End by the sea or London today? Yeah, north London. London. Today. Y'all have such cool names over in England because one of the neat things about. Doing this is, I get to see, it shows all the cities and the countries that we're in and you know, we're in like five different countries and, uh, you know, we're in like five cities in Japan. We've got people listening or, or you got friends in Japan? No, I have no friends in Japan. So that's kind of amazing. Really. It's made its way over there. I thought so, because I don't have any friends. I mean, I got friends around the world, but I don't have friends in Japan. I mean, I've done comedy in other countries, but I've never, you know, I've never done the cheap trick, live at Budokon. I, I don't, I don't think that, I don't, I don't think the young girls would show up for that. I, I think the name of the album would be Pat Mcco, you know, live in an empty theater talking to himself. Yeah.'cause nobody likes you over here. So that was, but they, in England, I'm noticing all these really cool names, like, uh, uh, Newcastle upon Ty. Yep. And you know, it is like y'all name, the, the, you, you name the cities and then you mentioned the river that they're on. Yeah, so that would of often be like such and such upon Thas or you know, a lot often little towns have that kind of name I guess.'cause obviously you stole a lot of our names. Um, but I guess if you, I suppose it was necessary to knock a few syllables off there.'cause obviously you were much, you know, you're different kind of people, you know that many syllables might. You know, it might confuse you, I'm guessing. I see that. Yeah. That's where you got Shakespeare. Stratford upon Avon. I never understood that because I thought it was cool. I was thinking of there, the town that I live by that I'm from has two rivers running by it and I kept saying these cool names. I was thinking of going to talk to the mayor and seeing if we couldn't get a petition, you know, we could be hattiesburg upon leaf. Kind of stand, well, we shouldn't do that. Right. It's just, it's nah, it's just, it's just, I think you stay in your lane. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, isn't it? Stay in your lane. Okay, well, well, speaking of our lane, that's what brings me. We're gonna, uh, we, we were gonna talk about the difference between, uh, church and the USA and church in England. And, and, and when you and I started going to church the first time, which was actually, uh, kind of humorous, but I had a, a little bit of an encounter that, uh, we're gonna change the subject and I appreciate you humoring me there and. Speaking of Lane, it has to do with, uh, like college football. We, uh, are you do, are you familiar with college football in, in the United States? Yes. Yeah, no, it's different how it is here. Here. Like college sports are just not really like a big thing. Whereas I know for you guys it's televised and I think ut uh, I believe the college football stadium is a hundred thousand people. I. Yeah, which is bigger. That's bigger than our national stadium. Wembley. Yes. So, yeah. And it's not just ut, there's two uts actually that have a hundred thousand plus stadiums and Yeah. That's crazy. And Alabama has had had a hundred and I mean, it's in Penn State, there's a lot of stadiums that have a hundred thousand people because, um. It's in, in the US it's a big college is a big deal. Mm-hmm.'cause what we do is it's, it's either where we went to school, it's, uh, or we grew up liking'em. We didn't really have to go to school. It could be something you did as a kid with your, your dad. It's just, it's a big deal to us.'cause we have these 18, 23-year-old kids that. You go out and play the other school's, 18 and 23-year-old kids, and if our 18 to 23-year-old kids be theirs, it shows our superiority to that person just in life in general. Does that, does that make sense? Yeah. But we have the idea of competitive sports, like so that bit makes, makes sense. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. But we, yeah. Yeah, but we take it, we take it personally. You see, it's kind of a defining, it's the self-esteem thing. I know in, like in England you don't, you have football, but it's like F-U-T-B-O-L or you know, soccer. Yeah. So we have football. It's spel the same. Um, I think what you are thinking of is table football, but, uh, we, we, so we spell it the same, but it's like with a, it's it's proper football, you know? As opposed to obviously what you do is, um. Some, a kind of weird hodgepodge of like rugby and some kind of sport where you require a lot of padding so you don't get hurt and Yeah. Different. Well, it's'cause what I've seen of English football with soccer, you know, we call it here. Yeah. Football. And you have huge stadiums over there and it looks like you've got a bunch of guys that. Get out on the field and you call it a pitch for some reason it's a field pitch. Yeah. So they go out on the pitch, they run around for a few hours, the fans get drunk and sing, you know, you know the whole time. And then eventually the object of the game is to put the ball on the net. Eventually the ball will go on the net and the announcer's like, shocking kick Nigel. And that's it. You know, like, man, United beats leads one to nothing riveting. That's, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, there's a bit of that, but, um, I mean, it is different. Like when I was in America a few times ago, like it was Super Bowl weekend and I thought, oh, I'll sit down and watch the Super Bowl. It just seemed to be like a really long ad break with like very short bits of some kind of sport sprinkled in occasionally. It's a little bit about the money, but college football is as big as pro football to a lot, you know, to a lot of us.'cause like I said, a lot of it got, you tend to be a pro fan if you live near the bigger cities, urban areas or that type of thing. College football is ingrained in you. It's like if you're in a state and you got two different teams in that state and your neighbor or your friend goes to that other school and you go to this school, well, it's very important that your 18 to 23-year-old kids beat the 18 to 23-year-old kids from that school because that will pretty much affirm that you've made better life choices. Do you see? Yeah, it's, I mean, it really makes sense now how you guys, you know, especially at the moment, lead the world in like diplomacy. That's it. Well, speaking of diplomas, I didn't get a diploma from the school that I went to, uh, although I do think I hold the record for enrolling the most times and making the least amount of progress. So I think I'm recognized over there some somewhere, but, and my team went one in 11 last year. So my self esteem's lacking a little bit, but we tee it back up in about three weeks. But the reason I'm mentioning college football is there is a, uh, it's such a big deal over here. We have these message boards that, that we go on. And this particular message board, um. That I frequent is it's thousands of guys from all over the country and it's about college sports or college, football. But surprisingly, that's probably one of the least topics that we talk about is actual. Sports. We talk about everything from politics, current events, what's going on in the world, people trying to be funny, really good information. I mean, if I get up and check my phone, if I get up and check my phone at three o'clock in the morning and there's a asteroid heading. Towards Earth. Somebody on that board is going to have posted it. So it's a, it's, you know, it's kind of a cool place to hang out, especially for somebody like me who, when I'm not doing comedy, I don't have much of a life. So I go on there and, there are a lot of people on there. You, we have everything from the average Joe to the millionaire, to the average Joe that acts like a millionaire to the average Joe that makes fun of the guy that acts like a millionaire to. Neurosurgeon, HVAC guy, police officers, special forces, guys in finance, just all kinds of wide variety of people. It's like a big social club that people go on and you got good guys, you've got, uh, you know, idiots just like every club. And people are trying, you know, they're trying to be funny or having discussions and as men do when they get together and some women, they get together. Uh, people always wanna put themselves in the best light. You know, you really don't wanna say things or do things and make yourself look like you're failing at life and there are guys on there that you recognize that post an awful lot. It's not just people like me that occasionally gone,'cause I'm. You know, not giving up immaturity without a fight and trying to be funny when I'm off stage. So you have, guys, you recognize and you know, and you know in your mind you don't know their names, but they have like a handle. And you'll, you, you know who, oh, there's somebody that you've seen a lot and this guy seems like a good guy. This guy's a smart guy, this guy's funny, this guy's all, you know, this type of thing. And again, nobody's gonna post anything on there to try to make themselves look like they're failing at life. But last week a guy came on that I had recognized his, his handle sent him on there before and he would be what you would classify as one of the good guys, one of the guys you think was doing life well. And let me read to you how he started. His post last Friday at 7:34 AM and this is a guy that's been on this board for years. Just seems to be living life, punching life in the face. Uh, seemed like a successful, happy go lucky guy. I think he got married about a year ago. The post starts, I'm an alcoholic. The body of the post I went to my first meeting yesterday evening. This has been a hard process to begin. My body detoxed yesterday, and I'm still going through it today. The final straw was drinking an entire bottle of liquor Wednesday morning before even leaving the house. I went to work and an hour into it, could barely stand. Coworker drove me home. Never been more embarrassed on my life. Remember the word embarrassed here. Um, I am fortunate to not have completely thrown everything. I've worked so hard, far away, and my boss said he isn't ready to give up on me. Even though I told him he should fire me. He offered me grace and the time I deserve none. I will beat this. The withdrawals are rough, but I'm really ready to be done. I'm disgusted with myself, remember that and what I've become. I'm asking for some prayers as I battle through this, and I know I'm not going to let it beat me. I'm too young. I just had my one year wedding anniversary. We were looking at buying a house, I'm just tired of lying to everyone and myself. Mm. And I noticed, uh, let's say the rich and I noticed at the bottom within an hour or two, this post had 327 some odd likes, which is a huge amount of, of people liking a particular post. And the reason I said focus on the embarrassed and the disgusted with myself. Because it sounds like this guy's coming out and admitting he's a failure and that he's losing, but I read this post to my wife, and my wife is one of the wisest, most spirit filled people that I've ever met in my life, and she looked over and said, man. Can you imagine how strong he had to be to post that? Yeah, absolutely. But at a moment, this guy thinks he's admitting that he's a failure and he's a loser. He's actually doing one of the strongest things he's ever done, and he's actually showing how strong he is. And I just wanted to bring it to you. Not only are you an addiction specialist, but you are now 13 years sober. Uh, anyway, comments and advice, tips as he's just beginning this journey. Absolutely. Thanks Pat. Initial thoughts, you know, he's admitted, he's got a problem. He's gone to a meeting. That's huge. Like that's, that's like no small thing, you know, it's the, you know, the first step, and I'll talk about the first step of Alcoholics Anonymous a little bit in, in, in a minute. But like, you know, that first kind of teetering step into a recovery program is, you know, it's hard. It's like a scary thing to walk into a room for the people. You, you may know people in there, you probably don't. There's a different language in there, a different culture. You know, it can feel very ashamed. You one can feel very ashamed walking in there, you know? And embarrassed and disgusted. There are two words that really mean shame. For me. So that's a huge thing. And your wife's on the money, you know, it's like that. It takes a huge amount of courage to particularly publicly like that, to come out and say something of that nature. So yeah, lots of really good stuff happening there. It won't feel good right now, but it is good, you know? And you know, like sometimes. Gifts come wrapped in really strange packages. And you know, that felt, you know, that kind of day one, the detox, you know, that rock bottom experience gonna work. Having drunk a bottle of liquor, you know, there potentially, you know, guarantees a lot of, it'll depend on what he does from now on, but like, potentially that'll be one of the best days of his life.'cause it'll be the day that everything changes. So that's kind of first thoughts and then. I mean, there's more to say. I can say more than that, but what, you know, what do you, what do you, what do you make of what I've just said? What, what do you think about that? I totally agree. Um, the guy is, is he's showing how strong he is on that day. And, and then you just mentioned walking into the meetings. Mm-hmm. And you might know, or you might not know this was the thing that was surprising. Uh, as you know, my, my brother and sister were both. Alcoholics and, uh, my wife would take my brother to the, you know, he couldn't drive, so she would take him to the AA meetings and she said, when you walked in, she said, walked in. She said it was packed. And she said, I knew people, there were doctors, there were prominent people in town. There was every walk of life. That was in there. He said, you would just be surprised. So he may feel lonely and like you're the only one doing this. But there are far, far more people that are going through this than you realize. I remember when I was, um, I mentioned it in my book when I was 16 and I got a DUI, I went to a, a May SAP meeting called Mississippi Alcohol Safety Awareness Program to get my driver's license back and. I joke about how me and a friend, we, matter of fact, it was after a college football game. I decided that, you know, that I would try to go through about eight red lights down the main street and I go into this meeting. We look in the back of the room and we see a lot of our friends' parents, and these are prominent people in town. These are doctors, but you know, not just the doctors are prominent, but that's, uh, all walks of life that were in those meetings. So this guy and anybody that's listening and going through this or has family members, it's a much bigger club than you think it is. Oh, 100%. Like, you gotta recognize, right? Like, it's like addiction does not discriminate. You know? Like I've worked with people, you know, professionally and, you know, sponsored people in 12 step programs and stuff like that that have, you know, their trainers have their sneakers, so have been worth more than my car, you know? And I've worked with people that like, literally had like nothing, you know, that were like low bottom, you know, like street level drug addicts, you know? And, but like addiction doesn't discriminate. It might look a bit. Different in some cases, but it doesn't discriminate. So yeah, you'll have the full spectrum of society in there. There's a meeting in, uh, in East London. And, um, it's a really interesting meeting. Where it sits is it sort of sits on the cusp of, um, of the financial district, right? Which, you know, you are Wall Street, right? It sits on the cusp of the financial district, but then a load of, um, you know, much poorer, like infinitely poorer areas. So you are going in that meeting and you might be sat next to a hedge fund manager. On one side and on the other side you'll have like a, a guy who's, who's come out of, we call them mistakes. You would call them housing projects. Yeah. Um, and you, you know, and everyone in between, you know, so it's, yeah, like that point's so important to remember. It's like addiction doesn't discriminate. Um, yeah. That it is, you know, like prominent people, not so prominent people. Everyone in between then, without a doubt. You, you went through the 12.'cause I know people that have gone through the 12 step program, uh, and people, uh, very successfully. It seems to be one of the most, you know, successful paths out there. You went. That's what you started off, you know,'cause we're kind of, we're a faith-based podcast, but you started off in the 12 step program. Yeah, 100%. I mean, that really is what brought me to Faith, right? Because you go in there and there's, there's an emphasis, you know, a significant emphasis on a higher power, right? So what that guy. That's, that's not, that's in the 12 step program. In any 12 step program. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. It's, it's like built in. So the roots of the 12 step program are that, you know, started in 1936 by Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob Smith. They were both like heavyweight Christians, you know, so I've been to Bob's house in Quan, Ohio and like they, you know, they've set it up kind of as it was when he lived there in like the thirties and through until the forties I think their house was in the. Family's possession until the fifties, if I remember the history right. So like you can see where Bob Smith sat reading, you know, like reading his Bible, you know, he was insomniac reading his Bible reading books like the Varieties of Spiritual Experience, right? So it had very Christian roots. Um. How it's been translated over the years is that that has broadened out to accept kind of all faiths and none. And you know, I think that kind of open access is really important. But for me, the journey was through working the 12 steps and kind of coming to believe in the presence of the higher part in that higher power's ability to help me grow and change and heal. That was what led me to the church, you know, after some years so. Yeah, there's a heavy emphasis on that stuff. I mean, I worked through the steps really. Step one. You know, it is, we admit, we were powerless over alcohol and our lives have become unmanageable. It's odd. It's a funny paradox, pat, but like in that admission of powerlessness, you know, that admission of defeat, which I hear in your guys' post, and if you are listening, like I really want to just applaud you and affirm you and encourage you and tell you like there is a way out. It can get better. It did for me. Um. But that post is an admission of powerlessness. Yeah. That post is a, like, I can't do this. Yeah. Like, this has got me licked. Yeah. Like, you know, under my own power, you know, left to my own devices, relying on my own thinking, decision making, thinking and decision making. I'm drinking a bottle of liquor before I go to work, getting driven home by a coworker and telling my boss that he needs to fire me. You know, that's where my best thinking gets me. So there's an admission of powerlessness in that. And the paradox that I mentioned is, is when you admit your powerless, you open the door. To the possibility of finding some power, but until you've admitted you haven't got any, it's very difficult to go looking for any, you know, so that's, you know, that's kind of the, the first step. And look, I mean, look, your guy, like, I'd say look, go to a lot of meetings. Yeah. Go to a lot of meetings. Meeting makers. Make it, yeah. Get a sponsor. Work the 12 steps, you know, it's the 12 steps that. You know, it's be, you know, you, I mean that's like, it's not even a podcast. It's like a, several books could, you know, you could write about the people's experiences they have and stuff like that, but it's like, you know, like sum up very simply. It's like trust god, clean house, help others, you I in, you realize you're beaten. Develop a relationship with some kind of higher power and just even like the fledgling, just the little kind of embers of a belief that this thing can help me. And the cleaning house is like, you're going through the, going through a, a process of like, you kind of clear out all of the, the guilt, the shame, the remorse. You acknowledge the hurts that you've perpetrated to people. You look at what you've done to them. You look at what you've allowed people to do to you, you know, you really take responsibility for. SHIT that you, you know, that you've kind, you've done and you know what elder that kind of darkness and muck that you're carrying, you know, in change, you make some restitution, you know, that's cleaning house and then helping others is right. Kind of carrying the message to other people that it's possible to do so. Right. And that it's different ways to do that, but it's like, essentially it's like. It's like what we're charged to do in the great commission. Yeah. Like we get saved right through our faith. Right. We get washed clean, we get forgiven. Somewhere in that maybe we learn to forgive ourselves. Alright. But in a great commission tells us that we go out and we carry that message to other people, you know, that we try and create disciples, you know, so it's very Christian based. If you've got a faith, your guy mentions prayers at the end of his, um, at the end of his post. So that suggests that he has a faith, which is a huge asset. It's not essential when you walk through the doors. It's a huge asset. You might mention that. Yeah. So, yeah, that's, um, yeah, that's, that's, that's, yeah. That's. Yeah, lemme ask you this, that, that I've wondered one, uh, I'm, you know, when you're talking about faith and addiction, you know, it used to be in the church, they would say, you know. Put your faith in Jesus and get over this and stop calling addiction disease, whatever. I, it doesn't matter what you disease, you can't control yourself. It, you know, I've heard a pastor that I respect and I love this guy's past now, but, but you know, he, he, uh, he gave a sermon on the, the. Oh, you know, now they go to therapy. They call it a day. Well, I couldn't, I, I totally disagree with him on that particular point. That was the old school thinking. It's something you can't control. And like you said, this guy and what you did 13 years ago, you admitted you had a problem. And then that's where your strength come, comes from in, in that point. Um. Do you think, because I always wonder, you know, both of us overcame all about the stuff, you know, the drugs and all the crime and all the stuff we did at, at younger ages. I wasn't really physically addicted. I was just a miserable, I, you know, hopeless person. I, I, you know, all the trouble and everything I got into, I was emotionally attached to drugs. And so when I started following God, things started really changing. I didn't have that, that. Desire there. Do you think it traces back to when you're young or is it, it is just like this is just something in your body. You drink alcohol, you can't, do you see what I'm saying? I always try to trace back a lot of the trouble I got into to, to what caused me to feel that way. It doesn't seem like there's really a causal. In alcoholic, it just seems like some people can handle it and some people can't. Do you get what I'm saying? It doesn't necessarily mean this guy has a tough childhood or all the other alcoholic. Matter of fact, one of the most successful guys in the town that I live in, uh, this guy gave up alcohol at 23, 24 years old, is one of the most successful businessmen at times. He still goes to AA meetings, I think. I think once a week. Matter of fact, he posts what he, his what he, his whole story about once a year, six months a year on social media and puts his phone number on there for people, for people to call. So he didn't have some deep seated, you know, type miserable trauma growing up. I mean, he had lost his father at a young age. But I'm just wondering is, is, do, do most people have that or is it something like, alcohol is just like drugs, you just, it's a. You see where I'm going? Yeah. Yeah. There's different schools of thought, right? And I think it is different for different people, right? Definitely. For some people there's that kind of trauma basis. Lying underneath it, you know, the drugs, the alcohol becomes a way to medicate those kind of deeper. Wounds, pains, sadnesses for sure. The other thing that is really important to bear in mind is like essentially drinking alcohol is pleasurable, right? Like people have been kind of getting high or getting drunk or getting stoned in different ways for thousands of years, right? We're as creatures, we are designed to move towards things that are ple. Right. But the problem is with things like alcohol, cocaine, heroin, you know, all sort of substances which can become problematic and misused, right? Like is that they, they radically alter. Over well over time, sometimes not over time, sometimes very quickly, but they radically alter the brain chemistry. So you can come dependent and, you know, end up with a habit forming around that substance that can, that can happen very quickly. Right? So. Look for some people, I think it's, yes, there's like, there's definitely pain in the background, which is being medicated for other people. No, there isn't. There is, you know, our arguments and lots of research and debate about the genetic basis of alcoholism or addiction, right? But more importantly, like for, you know, and kind of bringing it back to your man, right? Like, it's like, actually none of that really matters right now. You know, none of that. None of that really matters, right? What matters is what he does about it. So I liken it like this. Pat Rod, I'm explain this to, to the people I work with quite often. Right. It's like if you are in a house, right? If you are on the top floor of a house and that house is on fire, yeah. What you do not need to do is figure out how the fire started. Yeah. You need to get out. Yeah. Like you need to get out of the house sitting there thinking about how this fire broke. I wonder if it broke out in the kitchen. Maybe it was'cause I left the stove on. It could be. Or actually did so and so like discard a lit cigarette into the bin. They thought it was out, but that's caused the binge. No one cares. Do you know what I mean? You definitely shouldn't care. What you need is to get out. You need, and you, you need some help to get out. Right. And then once you're out and the file's been put out, maybe you know, maybe you go and look in the embers and you do the investigation and you try and figure out what happened. Some people do, some people don't. Some people need to, some people don't. You know, I think there's broadly three, three types of people. Aa, whatever, whatever, a right. There's broadly three types of people. There's people that can come in, they can work through the steps and everything's, they're gonna be okay. Do you know what I mean? Like, fine, they're gonna live a nice happy life. They'll be healed, you know, like the, um, the alcoholism, the active, um, symptoms of alcoholism will be removed, right? They'll live a nice happy life. They'll be fine. Do you know what I mean? Then there's another type of person. They're gonna work through the steps, but because of that underlying kind of wounding trauma, whatever you wanna call that, they're gonna need to do some other stuff. They're gonna need to dig into it. They're gonna need to find out what's underneath that, otherwise they're not gonna stay sober. Right. And then you get people somewhere in the middle. Like they'll probably stay sober if they work the steps, but they might need a bit of help as well if they're really gonna be able to enjoy their lives. Do you know what I mean? Figuring out what, which one of those types of people you are, that comes later. You know? Right now you need to be sober. If I'm working with someone that's new, like brand new through the door in the same scenario that's been outlined in that post, like I'm not looking to find out why. For a while. You know, what I wanna do is help them to figure out what they're gonna do about it. Be that go to meetings, be that going to rehab, whatever it needs to be, do what you need to do to get sober. The rest of it you can figure out. Leo, one other question. Do you do, and I don't know how to phrase this, do you focus, you know, there, there are people that, that think, you know, you have family, you have chil, you know, you do, you focus on. I gotta do this for them, or is it, I gotta do this for me? Does that make sense? Yeah, no, great question, pat. So look, the, the, um, the age old wisdom has been, and you will hear this said many times if you know, particularly if you spend time around AA or whatever group, right? Is that if you're not doing it for yourself, it's not gonna work. Right, right now, that's what I thought I would. I, I have a slightly different take on that, right? So most people. Or a significant proportion of people walking through the doors of a 12 step meeting. They're not, they're probably not in a place where they're like, oh, you know what? Like, I really believe that I'm worth more, you know? I really believe on a deep felt level that I'm better than this. Yeah. And like, because I've. Believe and back myself so much, I wanna make this change for me. You know what I mean? I don't think that's most people when they walk through those doors, what pushes people through those doors of a meeting or a clinic or a rehab center, what, you know, whatever it might be. What pushes people through those doors will often be consequences. You know, loss of something, job, family. Yeah. Like, and the desire to avoid those consequences. Right. It may Well, but this guy's on the verge of it. Yeah. It may well be that family. You know, it's like there's been an ultimatum. You don't, you need to go and get well or else.dot do whatever. Gets people through the doors. Gets people through the doors. Yeah. But like once you were there. So hopefully through the whole and the love that you'll experience there, you will start to shift and think. Actually, you know what, like I, I want this, I heard a story once. Um, I heard it on a, a recorded, um. Yeah, it's what called a share, someone telling their story. But, uh, many years ago it was on a cd, you know, back when, you know, so there would be share CDs that would be kind of handed round and, you know, copied and stuff like that. And it was a lady from LA and she was a, she was a crack addict, right? And she got sentenced to do 90 meetings in 90 days, which you guys do over there, which hasn't, sadly, hasn't really caught on over here. But you find it some places, but it hasn't really caught on over here. Anyway, her story was until day 89. Yeah. Until day 89. She sat in these meetings and she hated being there, man. She was like, I just can't wait to get out. Yeah. Get my thing, you know, get my final meeting shit signed. Yeah. Like court slip, right. Get out from under this kind of stipulation, and then I'm going back out and then I'm gonna hit that pipe. Right? And, and she said on day 90 she sat in that meeting and she looked around and she thought, you know what? Really emotional. So you said, you know what, what these people in here have got going on looks a lot better than what I've got going on out there, and I think I'm gonna stick around. So I think it's whatever gets you through the door. Pat, your advice to this guy and anybody listening and anybody starting going through this. Is to get up, get to those meetings., It seems like when I've had trouble way back in my life, it was like, WW win today. You know, just win today, do it right. Today, go one and oh two and oh three and oh four, and oh, if you have a fall, jump back up and get a streak of winning again. Is it your, so your focus is get into the meetings, reach out, get as much help. What would your final thing to say to this guy? That is Right. It's like levels of care. It's like if you go to the emergency room, you know what we call a accident and emergency. Right. They're gonna triage you. Yeah. They're gonna work out whether you need some bandages. Yeah. Whether you need a doctor to look at you and, and kind of do some medication or whether you need to be admitted. Yeah. And go up to the fourth floor and get some treatment. Right. Go to meetings, reach out, make friends, build a support network. Get a sponsor. Work the steps. Do all of those things. Yeah. If that doesn't work, get a, get some professionals involved. You know, if you've got insurance, use that, whatever you need to do. Yeah. But like, you might wanna get a counselor, you might need to go to rehab. But the starting point is like, just get to those meetings. Do all the things they tell you to do. If that doesn't work, reevaluate, you might need more help. But right now it's getting to those meetings. Well that's good advice. Uh. This guy can overcome anybody listening, anybody that has family, friends that are going through this, uh, they can all overcome. And the seriousness of this, I certainly know because my older brother and my younger sister both drank themselves to death. Oh, pop. They literally drank themselves to death. I'm sorry, ma'am. I don't, uh, that that's, you know, that's okay. It's down, you know, it's, it's, it, you know, watered down. They, um, the thing is the consequences are high. I don't, I don't know any 75-year-old alcoholics, you, you, you win it or, or it beats you. So I think, uh, what you're saying is whatever you have to do. Get up there and win that day and do it. And then the joy to bring it back to the overcoming. I You were one of that. I was just commenting when we started the day, the house, the big smile on your face. You're getting married, uh, in the few, I hope I'm not letting the cat out of the bag, but you 13 years sober, right? Yeah. Yeah, man. No, I mean. And it's not been, you know, it's not been easy, but it's been great, you know? Right. It's, you know, I, I'm one of those people, I needed extra help. You know, I, I carried a lot of pain into recovery, you know, into my sobriety, um, right. That caused me, uh, some difficulties as you know, but, but, um, but ultimately it led me to Jesus. Right. That's a huge thing. You know, all of that stuff led me to, led me to Jesus. Yeah. And, and, and that was where. The magic, probably not the best choice of words, but that's where it really. Really started to happen, but like in the meantime, before that, even in the midst of, you know, some difficulties and stuff, like for me to not use drugs, right? This is, I use drugs every day from the age of 14 onwards, maybe 13. Definitely by the time I was 14 I was using something. I was getting high on something every single day. Alcohol was a huge part of my story. But then everything else as well, cocaine, crack, cocaine, heroin, cannabis, you know, marijuana, whatever you wanna call it. For me to have that obsession. Murder of succession to use and drink removed was nothing short of a miracle. I traveled the world. I built a great career. I made lots of friends. You know, I, I've, you know, I had no one, you know, I had no one left in my life. No one cared. Well, people cared, but they were so hurt, you know, that they'd retreated. I, you know, angered people, stolen from people, robbed my parents' peace of mind, you know? So then to be able to build a life, you know, where she's, you know, I have. Safety, security, a roof over my head. Love, you know, friendships, you know, like choices. You know, I'm not, look, I'm not waiting for the door to come through with like the police or drug dealers. I owe money to, you know, I'm not waiting, you know, like, it's not how I live today. Yeah. So, yeah, the joy, you know, the, the transformation is remarkable, you know, and yeah. I'm praying for your guy, man. I'm praying for him. Yeah. I'm praying for him too. My wife is praying for him, and I know people hear, oh, thoughts and prayers. I promise you. Praying for people even that you don't know make a difference. There was a thing in my book I mentioned the day I walked down that street when it was raining and I ran into this guy. I'm coming back, actually, I'm coming back from college football game and I've run outta gas. There's a guy standing on the side of the road and asked me how I'm doing and who I am. We talked for a second. He says, well, I know who you are. He says, we've been praying for you. There were people in this house that had heard my name, and I have no doubt that that had a lot to do with the miracle that happened in my life. So, uh, to our guy that we're talking about. Uh, we are praying for him. My wife's praying for him. Other people do, he can do this and he can overcome. So I appreciate you sharing that. And, uh, before we go Rich, um, speaking of overcoming, I want to tell you an amazing story. Um. About overcoming on the intro. You listen to the intro and the outro music to our podcast. Yeah. You hear the cool funk, jazz fusion that comes in there. Well, there's an amazing story behind that. The guy playing that is a guy named Michael Abernathy and he has a band called Abernathy and you can find his music anywhere. Uh, that's out there. He is got several other songs. Really talented guy. And let me share his story with you. February 23rd, 2004. He's 34 years old. He has, he's married for, I don't know how long he'd been married, but he just, he was, had a two week old son. He is an accomplished musician by night. He's worked with some big name guys, big name folks, and he is working construction during the day, and he's up in the roofs about a three story house in one of the more prestigious neighborhoods in my hometown of Hattiesburg, Mississippi. He falls through that roof 30 feet onto his head. They don't think he's going to make it, but they rush him to the emergency room. They do an emergency craniotomy on him. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. His head was like twice the size of normal, but the doctor's thinking he, he shouldn't live. He's got a vein gushing blood, so they can't work on it. You can't work when there's blood gushing in, his vein. And he died. During the surgery, but when he died, the blood stopped gushing, so the doctor was able to sew the vein back up, but he was dead. He flatlined. So they brought him back to life and they, they, you know, whatever the shock, somehow they shocked him back to life. And the doctor said no one had ever flatlined, no one had ever died and come back to life, um, with him like that. But he has this and the severe brain injury. And he can't function. He's good chance. He's going to be an invalid for the rest of his life. And, uh, he comes out of the hospital, he does have a wife, but he's needing round the clock care. Probably gonna need that round the clock care for the rest of his life. But he's having trouble. He needs help. He has a walker or wheelchair. He's having episodes where he has to go to the emergency room and one day his wife takes him. To the emergency room, and he's sitting in a wheelchair and he had gone through like nine months of his life just disappeared From the time he had that accident. He didn't remember anything for nine months. It just all of a sudden picks back up. Remember 2-year-old kid, uh, that he was not able to, to, you know, play with or, or enjoy or, or be with, but he, his wife takes him to the ho to the emergency room. And he sees his wife down the hallway gesturing wildly with the doctors or, or the nurses. And that's all he remembers. He sees that and then he sees his wife turn and walk away, and that's the last he saw her. She just walked out and left. He's in the hospital and he's sitting there. He has no phone. Uh. He has no money. He has nowhere to go, nobody to take care of him. And so they stabilize him and take him to the local, um, salvation Army. And so he's at the Salvation Army. And, you know, that's a homeless shelter. Mm-hmm. We have that. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, it's basically basically a homeless shelter and they, um. They flew him, you know, from, from the homeless shelter. They, uh, his brother, I think found out and came and got him and then flew him out to California's brother, I think, lived in Seattle, Washington, flew him out to California and he's staying with his stepfather, so he takes him to stay with his stepfather. His mother died at the age of 21. He's already had. A bit of a tough go of it. Oh, and he had already overcome drug addiction himself. He had had a bad cocaine problem. He had already overcome a lot in life, but he's doing well at this point when he has this, when he has this brain with this massive traumatic brain injury. But he's left in this homeless, basically homeless shelter. His brother flies him, flies him out to stay with his stepfather. Well, his stepfather has this evil stepmother who's a meth head when the stepfather's not around. She's giving him a hard time. She doesn't like him. She doesn't want him in the house. He caught her doing meth. He saw her doing meth and she knew it, and she wanted him out of the house, so they put him into a care home in California. Well, some of these care homes. They, they can call'em a care home all they want, but what they are is they're there to suck money outta people and they're there there to suck workman's comp and government money out of them. Because he said he spent 14 years in this care home in California, and he said it was 14 years of living hell. He said they were pumping him full of drugs. They had no intention of. You know, of trying to, to rehab him or trying to help him out. He's stuck in this, in this home. Uh, he's using a walker. He can't hardly walk. They pump him full of drugs. He's fighting the drugs. Remember, this guy's a drug addict from the past. You know, he overcame that. He doesn't need to be pumped full of drugs, but he's fighting. And he's still fighting the drugs and he's still thinking, you know, I can beat this. He, he knows he has this two week old son and he keeps thinking, I've gotta somehow get out of this. I've gotta somehow get through this so I can see my son again. He said that was the, to be a father that he could be proud of. But 14 years in an institutionalized home, when on the inside of your mind, you're still functioning. You know, you just know that you need some help, but they're not helping him. He starts taking classes. Um, he gets a bass, so he's playing bass. But you know, 14 years is a long time. Lot of Christmases, lot of summers, lot of falls that are passing. So he starts taking, you know, classes and he is trying to help, but he's still on a walker. He's still being left. He, they're just give, they've given up on him, they've institutionalized him, and it happens all over the place. I don't know if it happens in England, but it happens in America. If there's money coming in, they benefit from you being in that bed and in that room graduate. And putting you back on your life. But there is one woman in there, one nurse that sees the progress, that sees the light inside of his eyes, that sees the hope, and she helps him come back closer to Mississippi where his son is. So they move him to Covington, um, Louisiana. So in Covington, Louisiana, they do start helping him. They do start trying to rehab him. They thought, that they could help. They said this was, uh, you know, it was a place where they were really trying to. Trying to get him better and he starts getting better and he starts helping. He starts teaching classes in the place. So he's now starting to come out. He's still in, in a wheelchair, and he's there for about four years. But remember, he has no control. He can't leave. He's still ward. I mean, he's wherever. People are gonna put him, and he has nowhere to go. Wife just left him in the emergency room. So he starts teaching classes and he starts making a difference in people's lives. He starts telling the guy in the wheelchair where your arms work, you know, where he, but he's an encourager. So he starts doing this, and then he gets to the point where the place in Covington says. We think you can maybe go to a graduate out to another facility because you're making progress. Well, that actually turned out to be a dark moment because they sent him to a place in Poncho where they kind of put you up in an apartment, but you can't leave it. You're, they've got cameras on you and you know, your workman's comp still paying the money. And there was a woman there running the place that, uh. Zero, rehab zero or anything, not trying to help this guy at all. And she's fighting to keep him there and he's wanting to get out and she's just, she, matter of fact, she's taunting him talking about you can't, you know, you're not gonna believe you. Oh, you did this and you did that, but you're still here. And, and so now he's back going through hell and he can't. Get out of this place, and he's at this place for several more years, but he's still fighting and he's still believing that he can get out of this. So one day he he contacts an attorney and he finds out he doesn't really have a guardian. He doesn't really have anybody that's put him there. They've just, these facilities have just made decisions and the healthcare professionals have just moved him to each facility and then on to the next facility. So he hires an attorney and the attorney comes back and says, you know, you have no guardian. And the attorney starts working, starts filing papers, and the attorney picks up the phone, calls him one day and says, it's over. Pack your stuff. He said, I'm coming for you. And the guy said, there's. Two of the greatest days in his life was the one when his child was born. The second one, when the guy called and said, it's over. I'm coming to get you. That was a year and a half ago. The guy's in a walker, he can barely, you know, he can still take him 10 minutes to get across the parking lot. That guy goes and gets him, brings him up to Hattiesburg, my hometown, where I met him about a year and a half ago when I met him. He walked with a walker, he couldn't walk. You could tell his speech was impaired. Six months later, this dude is out walking the golf course, playing nine holes of golf, dragging his bag. He's playing the bass again. He's functioning on his own. He's put together a band and he's playing this music, and I start hearing this music. I don't know who it is. I'm like, well, who is that? That That's me. That's you with this cool jazz funk fusion. That we're listening to. Yeah, that's me. It's six months later, he's improving more and more Now he's got his band, he's got his life back. He's back talking to his kid. They left him for dead and they left him as an invalid, and this guy is functioning so well that I was gonna mention his story because he was kind enough to give us this. This music for free to listen to. I call the dude up just to make sure that I get the story straight, but he has to call me back an hour LA and a half later because he's outside in a hundred degree Mississippi Heat doing, mowing his yard and weeding his yard amazing. Is amazing and overcoming. So that's, uh. Yeah, that's great. It's amazing, amazing story, you know, and sad, you know, a lot of loss in their damning indictment of the care system. And yeah, we have the same, the same kind of stuff happens in, in our care homes. Same kind of stuff happens in addiction treatment sometimes. You know, I think there's bad actors in every industry, and when people are vulnerable, sometimes they can get exploited. So, um, if you're not getting the care you need, um, remember you've always got. You've always got options. Thankfully, in the end, he found someone that could help him understand what he's were. So that's amazing. Thanks Pat for sharing that. Well, and the key is, as he said to me, never give up, never quit. He said, I knew the day I gave up is the day I lost. That's the same message that we have for our friend from the sports message board that I'm talking about, and the same message that we have for everybody else. Absolutely. Never give up. Never quit. And, uh, when you're, when we end this today, if whoever's listening, if you take about 20 seconds and listen to the outro music. It's called 15 minutes tonight. There's about a 22nd clip. And just remember, you're not just listening to some really cool jazz funk fusion. You're listening to the sound of victory and the sound of not giving up and the sound of overcoming, and that's. Michael Abernathy and you can find him, uh, the band Abernathy on any of the music. And congratulations, Michael. Way to go, dude. Uh, rich. Good to see you, man. We'll talk again next week. Thank you. Next week, pat. God bless you man, and God bless to everyone's listening. Alright. Alright, take care buddy. Take care. Bye.