Ep 12: Spiritual Awakening and Revival in the UK and USA, and the impact of the life of Charlie Kirk

Pat and Richard talk about the spiritual awakening and revival that's happening in England and America, along with important things a follower of Jesus should keep in mind as they grow in their faith. They also discuss the impact Charlie Kirk's passing is having on it, and the lessons we should learn from how he lived his life.  

Transcript

Pat: 0:20

and welcome to the two Unlikely Christians podcast. I am comedian and recovering idiot, pat McCool. And now across the Atlantic Ocean to London, England, to world renowned psychotherapist and addiction specialist and former member of the British Boy Band, Toby and the Towel Boys, Richard Terrell.

Rich: 0:47

Well, that is quite an intro, pat. I not, uh, it does, doesn't happen often, but I'm almost lost for words. Um, hello Pat. Nice to see you.

Pat: 0:55

How, how are things going in London today?

Rich: 0:58

Good. It's kind of like cool. And, but we haven't had any rain, which is nice. Our summer's very much over. But yeah. Good. Just, uh, as you know, assembling flat pack furniture today. Um, or should I say my fiance is currently assembling flat pack furniture. I'm in here talking to you. Um, I feel like I kind of got the better end of that deal, really. Um, that's happy, but yeah.

Pat: 1:21

Good man blessed you. You have to establish traditions as you're, uh, as you're, as you're starting to, as you're getting married, you gotta kinda lay down, let her, you know, act like I'm gonna come help you with this, but I got something to do. And then you kind of kill as much time as you can to try to get the furniture established. That's how you get out of doing stuff. And when you do get, you know, get married, I know as we've said, you had to go at it before, but like the first time you do the dishes. Break something. If you'll just break something one time, she'll never let you do it again. Then when you go do the laundry, get one of her good blouses. It's gonna cost you a few bucks, but get a good blouse and, and maybe a white one, and mix it with some red colors.

Rich: 2:04

Okay,

Pat: 2:04

wash it. It's gonna ruin the blouse, but that's it. There'll be no more laundry for Richard from that point. Lemme want this

Rich: 2:12

down Pat, hang on. I'm just looking for a pen. Any,

Pat: 2:15

any tips I can, any tips that I can get you, but that you just, that right there, you'll have to buy our new blouse. Maybe some flowers and a candle to go with it, but you won't be doing that anymore. It's a

Rich: 2:24

worthwhile investment. Yeah. The truth is Pat, she's actually much better at that stuff than I'm, I'm a therapist so I can talk to her while she's doing it, about how she feels, what might be coming up. Oh, I see. If there's anything from childhood that, that this, you know, like is similar to what kind of patterns of behavior of ot. Tara angry, she feels at me for asking her these questions while she's assembling the furniture. But yeah, that I, I'm, it's not, it's not in my, in my wheelhouse really. That sort of stuff. Stuff. Yeah,

Pat: 2:51

excellent. You're, you're already working the angles and life is all about the angles, so thank you. Okay. Uh, well, today we, we want to cover the spiritual awakening and revival, which we had on tap to do, but then again, um, but then we had the tragic death of Charlie Kirk here in America, and we obviously wanted to, uh, briefly talk about that. What I'm curious about is the reaction in the uk. I saw some things online that there was. A big memorial, for him. I don't know if that's true or not. Can you just give us an idea on, uh, I, you know, I didn't know he was even known in the uk So is, was he known in the UK or what's the reaction there?

Rich: 3:35

Yeah, so obviously he had a big, um, presence on social media. Certainly my, my other half was like very, very aware of him, was very shocked and saddened by, by his death. Um, I think amongst young people, obviously they spend a lot of time on Instagram, so that, you know, and there's, as we'll get into, there's this kind of resurgence or, you know, like revival of faith in happening in our country too. So like people were definitely aware there was a vigil. For him held. Um, in London there was a march as well, but PE the march was actually not about him. People speculate that attendance in that Inc at that increased because of his death. Um, but it was actually organized by like a, a separate kind of political, um, whatever you'd call it, commentator or, you know, figure. Um, so there, there wasn't, you know, it, it circulated on, on social media that there was 3 million people marched in London for Charlie Kirk. That that absolutely wasn't true. There was a march. Numbers have been debated, split between a hundred and 500,000, but that was actually a, a separate thing. But yeah, like some, some impact. Definitely. Like my pastor, pastor, he, he actually wasn't aware of who Charlie Kirk was.'cause he, he, he describes himself as a bit of a kind of social media, like recluse, you know, so he wasn't aware. So, yeah, he was nothing like the figure he is sadly was of course in the States, but yeah, it had it, it had impact over here for sure.

Pat: 5:09

Yeah, I thought the 3 million, you know, people glob onto those things. I didn't think that was true. That's why I was kind of curious. So that was another rally, but you think since it was, it was maybe faith-based that, that did increase the turnout? Uh, yeah. I didn't think 3 million people, 3 million people is, is a large percentage of. Great. Brilliant.

Rich: 5:30

That would, I mean, we've got about 80 million, but like the population of London itself is 8 million. So 3 million people on the streets of London would, um, it would be difficult not to notice that because the city would grind to a halt. Um, but it was a political rally. Um. Obviously not gonna get into all of that, but it was not, um, it was not Charlie Kirk, it was not around Charlie Kirk, but there was a vigil for it, which was, had a, a, a big attendance. I don't know the number, but there was a vigil.

Pat: 5:59

The fact that there was a big vigil, uh, is Charlie Kirk is kind of surprising. And I, I think it led to, you know, we were talking about spiritual, uh, awakening and revival in America also, you know, the message board. I'm always talking about that. I go on the sports message board. Uh, I was really surprised to see people that were talking about, I'm going to church. This, you know, it, it had a big impact on people and it, it did make a difference. I, I saw something online, uh, and this was true in America, a woman in Massachusetts. Her and her husband are on their way to work and she says, oh my gosh, look at this. And she said, my, my husband just told me to look up and they had turned the corner towards the main road leading to the church and it was packed. And she said, it is never like this.'cause you know, I lived up in New York, I lived in New Jersey, and, and churches just don't get that kind of a attendance. You have a lot of Catholic churches, you have mass, but nothing like that. So it did cause a really big, uh. Spiritual awakening or revival, which we'll discuss in a minute. But, you know, the thing is it, you know, obviously had an impact on me. I was devastated. I didn't really follow him, uh, hugely. I knew who he was. But, you know, one thing I learned is I started watching videos and, and, and, and listening was, he was an example to me because. You know, I'm a person that's, you know, can be quick to get angry. I don't display that to people, but, um, he never met, you know, anger with anger. He never insulted people., He never did. He just didn't do that. If you ever look, he was about open dialogue. He was about, I'm, I'm gonna discuss my faith and I'm not going to insult you. Matter of fact, the only time, only video I've ever seen of him where he, he was displaying any. You know, looked, kind of got his dander up was when a, another professed Christian had come to the microphone and was mad at him because of the respect and platform that he was giving to this LGBT person. And what, what that he was debating, you know, he, he was having a conversation with him and he was giving a platform, being very kind, very understanding. And then this person that was saying he was a Christian was taking him to task for it and he got his dander up a little bit and was like, this is not how Jesus. You know, response.

Rich: 8:23

Absolutely, man. Absolutely. And look, I, I wasn't aware of him not until, until literally like the news came out that he'd been shot. Right. But, um, you know, from what I see, a very clever young man, very passionate about his faith, full of love, like one or two things that. Uh, you know, there was a couple of things that I found like him having said that, like don't necessarily like a hundred percent align with my views, but not very much. Like, not very much. And he was like, you know, he was clearly like a, he was a man of God, you know, and he was, you know, and he brave, you know, and fearless and kind and, um. Sad man. Do you know what I mean? And regardless of any of that stuff we got, like for me it's like regardless of where any of us, where anyone sits, right? And like Jesus tells us to love everyone, love our neighbors, love our enemies. You know, like you, you know, like in fact says actually, if you just love the people that. You like, right. Then what have you act, what are you actually doing for me? You know, that's kinda what he says, right? And, um, but like we, we need to live in a society where people can express themselves and not get shot in the neck. You know, like that's as, it's as simple as that, man, you know, for me that's like, you know, one of the corner, you know, the cornerstones of living in a, in, in a free society, you know, like, yeah.

Pat: 9:41

That's the example that Jesus taught us. And, and that's what I kind of learned from it. Listen, I'm like, I don't do that. I, I, you know, I can get irritated at somebody or Jesus just didn't. Teach us to, to do that, you know, have your opinions, but treat people civilly, treat people with respect. And he was, uh, he was quite the example and he looks like he may end up having a much bigger impact, unfortunately, in, in his passing. Then, and I, like, I don't really, I don't know why, but the word death, it's always in passing. Especially if someone's a follower of Jesus because he is passing on to a, to a great place. But the legacy that he's leaving is the spiritual awakening and, and revival that's making a difference. And if people pay attention, like myself, I learned, I started realizing. You know, I don't always act that way. I don't always, you know, I mean, I, I don't outwardly do it, but I start thinking and getting, you know, you start getting your dander up, but just'cause somebody disagrees with you. Um. Jesus went out and talked and debated and talked, and he kind of acted the same way that, so Charlie Kirk really did emulate, uh, as much as I've seen a human do, uh, Jesus Christ. And

Rich: 10:54

yeah, and, and we were looking at my, you know, my, my half and I were looking at like scripture and stuff and, you know, there were times where Jesus got angry. You know, there were times he got passionate and there were times he got frustrated with. Like, you know, when he would speak to the, um, to the disciples, right? And he was like, are you so dull? You know, like, it's like he's saying, don't you get it yet? You know? Right. And like when he heal, you know, when he healed in the Sabbath and that like, you know, he was, he pushed back, you know, he had some feelings about it, you know, and, and, and so what we kind of got to in our, in our discussion, right, is, is. Like, it's okay to have feel, you know, it's okay to have feelings and to have passion and to, you know, even to veer into like, you know, sometimes feeling angry or frustrated, right? But love underpins it all, you know, and it's that, you know, that scripture about, you know, if you haven't got, you know, you can know all the scripture, right? You can like all of it, right? You know, you can have the, you know, you can prophecy, you can, you know, speak in tongues, you can do all of those things, right? But like, if you haven't got love. You are just a clanging symbol, you know, it's like, it's, you know, and it like, it's, it's empty, you know? And that, so that's the, you know, you know, Charlie was clearly like, passionate, committed, you know, very brave. Like a, you know, I think to sit in a room, you know, a hall or whatever, a stadium with people kind of, who don't want to come and, you know, many of'em are gonna be kind of angry with you and stuff like that. Right. But he was, but you can see it was all underpinned with love. And that's really something, you know, that's really something. I, I know that Louis CS Lewis and, um, Rick Warren in the Purpose Driven Life book, now they talk about dressing up like Christ, you know, like clothing ourselves, like him, you know, trying to be, trying to em to, as you, the word you used emulate him, you know? And, um, you know, Charlotte, you know. Don't want to put him up as some kind of deity, but he definitely emulated that stuff in a way that was very public and very committed and very passionate.

Pat: 13:06

That's why he had such an impact. And um, back to our main topic, the spiritual awakening. He has certainly. Poured fuel on that fire, but it's actually been going on for a, a while now. And also in the UK and also in in America. It made me start looking at some of these numbers. Mm-hmm. A lot is going on, uh, with Gen Z. I don't know what all the gen, the, I don't know what all the. The, uh, generations are supposed, you know what I mean? I just found out, I always thought I was a baby boomer. They blame everything in America on baby boomers. Uh, but I think I'm, I'm supposed to be part of a Jones generation. We were a little too late for Woodstock, but, you know, which is kind of sad for me'cause I really wanted to be a hippie, but they weren't there. You know,

Rich: 13:52

you've grown, you've got a hair, you've grown your hair, right. Well, I've got the,

Pat: 13:56

yeah, that's, that's my, as you diagnosed me, uh, you know, a number of episodes back was my, was my, was my rebelling because my dad was an army colonel and, and my dad would take us to get a haircut. I mean, I, I look like a, and it was this flat top. My hair was so flat that I could carry my books to school on my head. And then I'm, we moved from Army Post when we came to Hattiesburg, Mississippi. We're in this civilian town, and I walk into my fourth grade class wearing a Mickey Mouse t-shirt, and all of the kids in there look like the Beatles and, and I look like a drill sergeant. You know, so I always take Welcome. Yeah,

Rich: 14:39

good. Start off to a good start. Yeah.

Pat: 14:42

Yeah. So you, it just kind of stuck with me. I'm like, I'm, I'm, you know, once I get a chance, I'm growing this stuff out. Even though when I was in the corporate world, I had to get the dash a, but my dad used to actually, uh, not to get off topic when we lived in a place called Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. I mentioned this in my book. My dad would take us, there was a prison, a federal prison, and a military prison. And my dad on, on base. You could get your hair cut for like a dollar, but if you went out to the prison, they had this annex where these shops on the outside of the prison where these prisoners were. We're, you know, learning trades, woodworking, whatever, cutting hair. And he would take us out to get our hair cut'cause he could save 50 cents. And the guy Richard, cutting my hair was shackled to the floor. And there's a, there was a guy over in the corner with an M 16. You know, I don't know if there's a lot, but he's holding this M 16 and the guy shackled the four, this guy's got a, you know, he's sitting back behind me with, I dunno if he's doing life or whatever. I'm like, geez, dad, 50 cents. Really? Just to get this bur cut over here.

Rich: 15:49

Yeah. So, uh, I feel, I feel like we are like, it's each episode past this we shedding more light on like the kind of trauma and, you know, what, like what left, what led you to go off the rails path. Yeah. Yeah. We, we, I'm just gonna put that in my clinical notes.

Pat: 16:05

Yeah. Uh, basically I'm, I'm, I get off here and go, yeah. I'm tricking Richard into thinking we're trying to help people experience the fullness and joy of Jesus, but I'm really getting some free therapy out of this. I couldn't afford, I couldn't afford this in my life to I get off, think I'm learning a lot about myself, but, um. But yeah, in the, spiritual awakening and revival, which is taking place, there are actually two different things and people confuse the two. Revival is obviously restoring something. It's bringing something back. It's something that was there. So when you're seeing the church parking lots in many cases fill back up, they are, they're, it's a revival. You know, we've, I've seen it happen in America quite a bit. There was a, the Zuzu street, uh, revival in Los Angeles. If you ever Google that, that was a pretty amazing thing. And I know there was a, a pastor named John Kirkpatrick that was involved in one in Brownsville, Texas. It's a world revival and people are just coming back and coming back to the faith. You're restoring a spiritual awakening. You're not restoring, you're coming to learn it. You're yourself, you're coming to, to Jesus for the first time. You're learning the truth. You're kind, so you end up at the same place. But they are kind of two different things. So, uh, and you and I have both experienced that. And we just want to talk a, you know, a little bit about for people that are coming to faith for the first time.'cause I know a lot of people that are, that listen to this podcast are the first time, whether you're somebody that's in, uh, addiction or, uh, you know, what, you know, whatever's bringing you back to the faith. You know, whatever's bringing you to Jesus for the first time. We want to use all of our experiences and, you know, we get our, uh, not expertise, we get what we have by, we did it all wrong the first time and we've made all the mistakes. So hopefully people can learn from ours. And people need to understand if you're in the revival or spiritual awakening, if you're following Jesus, there's a great scripture of John 1516 that people need to realize. God chose you. Jesus chose you. It says You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask of the father and my name, he may give it to you. So anybody listening. That is filling the spiritual revival. That is having the spiritual awakening. Remember, God chose you like he chose me. And Richard, he chose you. And when you. End up giving your life to Jesus when you end up following Jesus. Because Richard and I, if you've listened to other episodes, we, I think we, we both think I, I think I'm fair to speak for you, that we started following God. We started a belief, but we didn't, you know, completely accept Jesus till time came, you know, till along the line. We started following God, things started changing. At least that was the. That was the case in, um, in my life. Like the example that I gave, in my book where I'm, I had been a believer. You know, I prayed the sinner's prayer and accepted Jesus in my mind. But I hadn't given it all up until that day that I'm sitting in church. Do you, I don't know if you recall, but there was a day that I got up, my wife wasn't going to church. I went on my own. That almost never happens.'cause I, I'm a sli, I love Jesus, but I'm a slacker. You know, if I get a chance to, oh, when we're not going, oh, she's not feeling well this day. I went, ended up sitting next to my mother-in-law. Um. That was a very powerful moment because my mother-in-law was just this huge person in my life, just this huge spiritual leader, and it was just so ironic that I'm sitting next to her that day and the pastor comes in. Now remember, I have been a Christian in my mind and I've been a follower for years. Uh, but on that particular day, the pastor starts giving the, what you would call the altar call. He starts giving what we, you know, we call the invitation in churches in the south, and he, you know, anyone that needs to get it, to give their life or, and I'm sitting there thinking, Hey, you know, go ahead. I'm, look, you know, can we get this over with? You know, I'm certainly not about to stand up. And then he gives the invitation. Nobody does. He does it again. He says, okay, somebody, there's somebody in here that needs to remember I was going through some troubles, even though I had followed, you know, was a follower of Jesus and. I, again, I don't move. I'm starting to get irritated. I'm like, Don, come on. Could we get this over with? And then he get, but something is moving in me. And then he finally does it of the third time he said, there's somebody here and I'm not leaving until this happens. And something came over me and as my mother-in-law recalls, my hand shot straight up in the air. I felt drenched in sweat and I felt something that kind of came over me like no drug that I'd ever had, and that was when I really accepted Jesus and gave it over to the Holy Spirit. Because when you accept Jesus, when you sincerely accept Jesus, you were filled with as much of the Holy Spirit as everybody as the 500 on pen. At Pentecost, people are always like, I'm praying for more of the holy. You have it. He gave it to you, it's up to you how much you surrender to it. And that's kind of, that's what happened to me on that particular day where I surrendered. And really that's where I got the full peace, full joy that really came into my life, even though I've been a believer all those years. And I'd just like to share that with people.'cause I know people that believe God and they pray the sinner's prayer and you know, but they still don't get that, that final piece. Um. But anyway, your your thoughts on that?

Rich: 22:03

Yeah, I mean, look, as, you know, just a minute or two, like on that, like, yeah, same experience really, like was in it, you know, believed in my mind, you know, like it made sense to me. It felt a heart shift. Like I, yeah, like I knew that this is true, you know, is the son of God. Um, and then after some troubles, like, but the first inkling was this deep sense of forgiveness that I had. I really felt it in my heart. It's like I'm forgiven. Do you know what I mean? Like I am forgiven, right? And, and then I realized how little I've forgiven myself. And then, you know, that was extremely powerful and healing in its own right. And then there was just this, this moment in church where the pastor was the pastor always get picked up and saying, pastor,'cause I has spaghetti. Pastor was say, was, was talking about adversity in Matthew. You know, come to meet. All of you are weary and burdened. You know,'cause you know, my, my yoke is easy and my burden is, is light. Right? And, and then he was, he was amazing. He's called Steven Foster. He's um. He's an amazing speaker. Right? Very passionate. And, um, it took me a while to work out what it was about. How when he spoke it spoke to me so much and I, I laterally realized it was how much he believed it. You know, when he talks, you can see his face is red. You can see the tears in his eyes like he believes what he's in, what he's saying.'cause he's, he's preaching the word of God. Right. Simple as that, you know, he is a vessel. But the way that that particular vessel believes in what he's saying. Anyway, he was talking about this and, um. And I just got walloped, man. Just got hit with the, that, just that sense of love, man. That deep abiding love. And, and it's interesting that that verse you chose from, you know, John 1516 actually, you know, John 1517. Very simple. Yeah. It's like, what, seven words, this is my command. Love each other. And, um, yeah. But yeah, the revival, like, you know, on that, so I, I, I looked up some. Some numbers. So we've had a huge revival in Gen Z, so more of our Gen Z population in this country are attending church than ever have, right? Church attendance in this country is up for the first time in a long time. You know, in the wake of Charlie Kirk's death, we saw numbers certainly in, I do two churches on a Sunday. I an addict, right? One wouldn't be enough, right? So there you go. Um, yeah. And um. You know, like the, the numbers were up in numbers were clearly up in both one's very small and intimate, which I really like. There's more, and I get a good sense of community there. One's very big and bold and vibrant and, you know, amazing worship, you know, very well produced, all that stuff. But, um, yeah, numbers were up, man. Do you know what I mean? Numbers were up and actually at my former church up in Oxford, um. They were talking about, they've been talking about this for months, actually, way, way before Charlie's death. And, um, they were saying something's happening. You know, like, and Oxford's always been a very spiritual place. CS Lewis experience had his conversion experience there. Right. Um, there's a lot of theological, uh, theological, uh, college colleges there and, you know, there's a, there's a lot that happens in that city where it's kind of a crossroads for like. You know, some of the most amazing intellects in, in our, in this world, right? Like, and, um, anyway, so in Oxford it's an aldates church. Um, they were talking what, sorry? It's a, what? It's called St. Aldates, St. St. Al Date's, the church is called. And, um, he, like they were saying that they, they were having people just turn up, like saying stuff like, I don't really know what I'm doing here. But like some, something like I just feel like I've got lead here today. And that was, no, it wasn't a one off like that was happening like regularly. And they had one service where they do four services on a Sunday. It's a very, you know, big church and, um. They in one service, they had 39 people respond to that invitation to the oracle. You know, 39 people gave their lives to Jesus in whitelock in one service. You know, so like something is a footman for sure. And um, and I think that the sad, um, sad death and sad murder of Charlie Kirk, his, um. Has accelerated that, you know, and as tragic as it is, and you know, obviously he's, you know, left behind a wife and kids and stuff and it's awful. But, you know, like it, it seems to have added to something that was already gaining place. Um, and that can only be a good thing. Ultimately,

Pat: 26:45

definitely seemed to pour fuel on the fire and. It's how God works. I, I don't, you know, I'm not one of those, Hey, it's God's plan. When some to somebody who's passed or who's died, I don't really know, but it's made a difference in a lot of people's lives. And Yeah. And, and add,

Rich: 27:04

sorry, pat, but it's like, you know, like, like he works all things for good. Right? All things were good. Uh, the scripture tells us that, you know, so, but yeah. Sorry. Go on, man.

Pat: 27:14

No, he has a, he has a plan and he. You know, he uses something like this. If he probably knew Charlie Kirk's date of passing on the day. Charlie Kirk was, uh, Charlie Kirk was born. And it has, it touched so many people and is probably gonna end up with a lot of people are going to end up in heaven. A lot of people following Jesus because of the life that he lived and. Um, we're having same numbers in the United States that you are in the UK and people coming back to church, people that are becoming Christians on that message board. When there was a thread about, you know, after the Charlie Kirk, people going to church, there were people that were saying, well, you know, a few months ago I just, I was feeling empty in my life and, I did follow Jesus, or I did go to church, or I grew up. Catholic, I grew up this, now I'm following Jesus and I gave my life. And, and everything has changed and they're getting that full peace and joy that you and I are trying to help others find. And so, you know, you just want to help people along. Give them any advice and tips you can. And, and one thing I'd like to say to, to any new converts, any people that are. Going through revival, you're going to have doubts also. You're going to, it's just natural that you'll have things that doubt along the way. And I just wanted to mention that one of the, um, one of the things, if you remember the story of John the Baptist, you know, John the Baptist, lept in the womb when Jesus came near, he baptized, Jesus himself told his followers to stop following him and to follow Jesus. And he actually heard God's voice, thunder from heaven saying, this is my son. Who am I? Well pleased. But then he had a moment of doubt where he found himself sitting in a prison. He's sitting in jail, and I'm just saying this because people will start following, Jesus. They'll make the commitment. It doesn't mean you're not gonna have struggles in this, uh, in this world, and you just need to know that. But John the Baptist is sitting in jail, and if you recall in, uh, Luke seven 19, he's sitting in jail and he summons two of his disciples and he sends them to ask Jesus, Luke seven 19, are you the one to come or should we look for another, you know, in my words, it's more like, you know, I mean. I know who you are, Jesus. And it's not that I don't believe you, but I could use a little reassurance right now because things aren't going. That well for me, and Jesus wasn't bothered by the doubt. So what I'm saying to anybody out there, if, if you have doubt, it's it, it's natural. We're all going to have it. But Jesus replied, uh, so he replied to the messengers. Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard the blind see the lame walk. The leopards are cleansed. The deaf here, the dead are raised and the good news is proclaimed to the poor. The point is, if you've started following Jesus for the first time, if you're having this revival, things like doubt, that will, that will creep in. Everybody's had it, but Jesus tells us, trust in the Lord with all your heart. And Proverbs, 3, 5, 6, the Bible tells us, trust in the Lord with all your heart. Do not lean on your own understanding and in all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your path straight. So even if you have doubt, it's natural. Stay in the faith. Keep reading the Bible. Keep reading the word of God and you're on your way to, to peace and joy.

Rich: 30:57

Absolutely, man. Well said Pat.

Pat: 31:00

Well, I tell you what, let's leave it there and, uh, it's good to see it. Now you've got to go back down and put, uh, some furniture together, rich. I tried to help. See, I'm trying, you're analyzing me, but I'm trying to help you. You, you know, you, you know you're gonna walk down and tell Shireen, pat went a little long winded.'cause my wife tells me I talk too much. I know. You go down. Yeah. You know these Southern Americans can't ever shut up. So Yeah, man. I'll make you. That, that's now, that's another part of being married. You always make it your friend's fault. Use your friends to collect money. You use your friends to get out of things. People call me up, Hey, do you want to, do you want to go hunting? I, I wanna go sit in a deer stand at four o'clock in the morning, freezing my behind off. I'm like, no, I got my wife. If you, you know, if any, if a friend ever bought loaned, did you ever loan money to a friend? And you want to get it back, but you don't wanna ask. You say, uh, hey Bobby, uh, that couple of hundred, couple of hundred pounds you owe me. I'm not really worried about it, but Reen has been on me. I'm just, anyway, you, anyway, you could get this back my way.'cause I'm just, I'm taking a lot of heat at home. So you, you good, you,

Rich: 32:18

you use the why Richard? Yeah, I will. Don't worry. Uh, that bit, that bit. Actually, I'm good with, you know, I, I, I run, I run my own business, pat, so that's a skill that I learned a little while ago. That one know what I read. Yeah. So,

Pat: 32:30

well, when you were younger, you ended up getting stabbed because you, as we discussed in an earlier episode, you didn't. That what you didn't choose the right way to collect the money back then. Anything that doesn't end up with you bleeding, Richard, that's what I'm trying

Rich: 32:43

to help you with. Yeah, definitely. Well, I think sometimes if I had this skill set now and went back and tried to live that life, would I do better at it? But that's a, that's a, that's a different kind of podcast Pat,

Pat: 32:54

uh, you know, that, that's just how the mind works. There are occasionally, I look back when I was 19, I was like, you know, I could have been a better drug dealer. Now that I know how to manage my money better, thank God, uh, Jesus has delivered us from all of that. So, anyway, good to talk to you. Uh, and I hope, our growing family out there that's listening of believers, I got something from this today. So Rich, I will see you next time. We are going to talk about, actually, since we were talking about doubt, we're going to talk about the blessings of struggle and struggle is some of the biggest blessings you can have and we'll discuss it in our next episode. So, uh, we will see you rich. See you next time and see everybody out there. God bless you.

Rich: 33:38

Thanks Pat. Take care. Bye.