Ep 22: The Alpha Course

Richard shares his recent experience of an Alpha Course, a great way to meet Jesus or get to know Him better. 

Transcript

Rich: 0:20

hello. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are in the world. My name is Richard Toll and I'm here with my co-host Pat McCall, coming live from a swamp somewhere in South Mississippi. Fresh back from the still distilling his family's, top secret moonshine recipe. And just generally being a great guy. And I am Richard Toll, and I'm an addiction therapist of, uh, according to Pat World, is world renowned. Although I'm not so sure about that, but I'm pretty good at what I do. I'll take, I can take that. Um, pat, how are you? Good to see you.

Pat: 0:57

Fantastic. Uh, doing well. Uh, it's getting a little cold over here, so we're getting, starting to get into the Christmas holiday. Spirit leaves are falling and, uh, so we're having to use a little of the steel firewood to warm the house.

Rich: 1:12

Yeah. No,

Pat: 1:14

we're not in a swamp. We're not in a swamp. We're by a, we're by a lake. We're not far from swamp, but not, actually, I'm a little nervous about swamp, so I'm not, you know, a lot of stuff out in the swamp that can eat you. Just,

Rich: 1:28

yeah, you guys have a lot of that stuff over there. We, we are pretty, we're pretty, uh, we're pretty lucky here. Um, we don't have so much of that. Do you have Christmas decorations up?

Pat: 1:37

Yes. Yes. Would you? My wife has officially put them up. We can't put up a tree because as I told you in the past, uh, every, uh, stray animal that looks, my wife in the eyes ends up sleeping in the bed with me. So we have. Five, six cats now six and a half.'cause we've got one outside that I've just now. Bought a nice warm house and built him a little, a little shrine out on my back deck.'cause he comes to get fed in the morning, fed in the evening. So now I can turn it on. And I got him a warm cat house. The other one she had rescued a pregnant cat. That cat and the kittens now reside in the house and that gave us five cats, which is why we can't have a tree. And then we were walking the dogs a few months ago and I heard something out in the woods. My dog, Molly, stop, wouldn't move. Gwen said, I think I hear a cat. I walked over the woods, cat walked up, curled itself around my ankle, and now we have Cato. So we have a full blown petting zoo going on, and you can't have a. Christmas tree if you have cats. And the reason you'll appreciate this, the reason the cat is named Cato. Do you remember The Pink? The Pink Panther Peter Cellar's movies? Yep. You remember? You remember his assistant Cato?

Rich: 3:03

I do not refresh my memory part.

Pat: 3:05

Alright. Peter Sellers, inspector CSO had a, an assistant named Cato. Cato was like trained ninja martial arts. Asian guy wore all black. You know, Cato was his sidekick. He taught, I would've thought you'd known this since this was I, I think a British movie. He told him that Cato was instructed to attack him at all times. And when he's not looking for it, not expecting it, he should always try to attack Inspector CSO to help keep him, keep his skills going, his fighting skills. So everywhere Inspector CSO would go, Cato would be popping outta closets. Trying to kill him. And then Inspector CSO tried to stop him from doing it, you know, when things got serious. But Cato never would stop. So every time he would, you know, he would walk in a dark room at night to go use the bathroom at one o'clock out would pop Cato, throwing karate chops at him. Well, this cat that show showed up and does the exact same thing. I, I can walk along and all of a sudden the paw comes out and wha. And I'm hooked and bleeding at two o'clock in the morning. So we named him Cato after, uh, you should rewatch through the holidays, uh, pink Panther.

Rich: 4:29

Thank you, pat.

Pat: 4:29

And it'll, it'll immediately dawn you on you.'cause that's one of the funniest things was Cato.

Rich: 4:35

Nice. We are, we don't have our decorations up yet. They're, they, we are scheduled to put'em up in the coming days. Um, we have, uh, after Sharin and I, or while we're moving in together, it, it emerged that she had like a, an enormous pile of Christmas decorations. Um, more decorations than I believe could reasonably be. Put up. And then, uh, a couple of days ago she announced that we needed to go shopping for Christmas decorations, uh, which was, uh, some, it was a surprise, but, uh, but yeah, so we'll be gonna get some more Christmas decorations and we will, we'll have a tree and, um, and we'll, um, we'll do the whole, do the whole nine yards. So you guys say, so

Pat: 5:20

yeah, you pick up something each year. It's your first Christmas together, you will get some Christmas decoration that you will both cherish when we first got married. This is our Christmas decoration. It comes out every year. That's, that's what's so special about Christmas decorations. See we have'em. We have, we have the lights and we have an, we have every, but everything's up high. We don't, we can't have the tree, which I'm a little sad about because the cats would tear everything up, but, but that's where Shireen's going with this.

Rich: 5:49

Okay, cool. That's useful information, man. You

Pat: 5:51

always needs something new, but one of the things about Christmas is the nostalgia of it. You're going to have things that you're going to go out and buy together your first Christmas together and then say like. 35 years from now, if you're married, as long as I've been 35

Rich: 6:12

years. Yep.

Pat: 6:14

You, you'll have a big collection and they'll all, you know, they'll have some meaning and that very first, whatever you bought. That y'all bought together, that that will have a lot of, uh, nostalgic meaning. So remember that's actually

Rich: 6:26

really helpful. Yeah. I'm actually thinking, okay, this isn't like a huge chore and we're fi filling our house up with nonsense. This is actually an opportunity to create meaningful memories. So yes,

Pat: 6:36

that, that's, see, that's what I'm here for.

Rich: 6:38

That's what you're here for, pat. It's a two way street. This isn't it. It's not just That's, that's right. It's not just free psychoanalysis. That's what

Pat: 6:44

it's, that's what you got the brains. I've got the, I've got the wisdom of experience and that's, that's what we try to share.

Rich: 6:51

Beautiful man. Thank you. Alright Pat, so look, I, there's some. Things specific that I really wanted to talk about today. A little bit different to what we normally talk about, but I have recently been going to weekly, um, classes or sessions on something called the Alpha course. Now I mentioned this to you, I believe in one of our like air conversations, an alpha course, and, um. You weren't aware of it. So I did a little reading and discovered, actually they are, they do run in the us. Um, so I thought it'd be a really great thing for us to talk about. So let me talk a little bit about what an alpha course is. So the alpha course is, is basically like a series of 11, um, EI mean, evening or afternoon. Like, uh, sessions where people come together and it can be people that have some kind of interest no matter how small in exploring faith, you know, and getting an understanding of like who Jesus was and, uh, what it's like to become a follower of Jesus and how you do that. You know, it explains, you know, some like things like prayer, things like healing. Um. The Holy Spirit, like living, you know, as a Christian, uh, grace, you know, all that good stuff, right? So, and then you, they get people together and, um, you, you, you are split up into tables. Your table might have 5, 6, 7, 8 people on it. You all come and it'll have leaders on it. So it'll have one or two kind of experienced like. A little way or quite a way down their faith. Walk leaders on each table. So you all come together. There's a little bit of social time at the beginning, then a then a, a meal is served. So you break bread together. So you'll sit there and you'll eat some food together and you're chatting and getting to know each other and, and all that stuff, right? And um, and then there's a video. So each week is accompanied by a video. And these videos, 20 minutes to half an hour long. It starts right at the beginning, like, who is Jesus? It explains like the historical record about who he was explains some of the historical evidence for the resurrection. You know, it covers, you have some really great like minds, you know, like intellectuals, like academic scientists on there. Um, you know, and they're talking about like. Their own experience of coming to faith. There's some really powerful stuff in there. Hopefully talk about that in a little, in a little while. So then, so then you watch these videos and then you all, you all talk about it, you know, you talk about what that meant for you, like questions you've got, doubts you might have, you know. Stu, you know, those kind of stumbling blocks into faith. Well, if there's a God, why does he let wars happen? Why does he let famine happen? Why do people get cancer? You know, like, am I not too damaged? Am I not too broken? Lots of stuff that we've spoken about so far, right? During this podcast. So, and then you have these conversations and there's just something, um, it's really clever the way it works, right? There's something. For lack of a better word, or like magical, right? About how people just, their minds just kind of open, you know, like they just kind of open. And then as you go through it, sort of, you start, like, there'll be some simple prayers that you do together. Um, you, there'll be some, you know, as you get to the halfway mark, there's some worse. You start worshiping together and it's just. Is a great thing. Pat, you've got a question, please?

Pat: 10:29

Yeah, yeah. Several questions. Um, this is for. The beginning, Christian, this is for as somebody that's, that's not sure, this is somebody that comes to you that you think is cu, is curious, is receptive to receiving Christ what, or is it all stages?

Rich: 10:49

All of that. Right. So it is

Pat: 10:51

so somebody's, somebody's just accepted Christ. Uh, because this sounds like incredible information because stuff that's taken me years to. Find out along, along the way, what if you got someone, like, I have someone right now that I, that's receptive. I haven't had a chance to sit down and meet. You say, you know, you ought to take an alpha course. Is that

Rich: 11:13

ex Yeah, that's exactly it. Right? So the reason I'm doing it is because like now as a participant, you know, is even though I've, you know, I came to Christ a couple of years ago, right? But is, there's two reasons. One, it has been explained to me that actually it's a good thing to do at any stage of your faith journey. Right. Um, that you will learn, that you will have an experience, which can only be helpful to you. The other reason I'm doing it is because when I'm kind of talking to friends or people I come across in, you know, in my recovery circles or very occasionally in my professional life, um, a really good thing if people are curious and you do, you know, you talk about, you know, you give your testimony, right? Talk about. What happened, you know, how things were before what happened and what it's like to become a follower of Jesus. Point them to the Bible, maybe pray with them, read a little bit of the Bible with them. Point them towards the gospels. You know, encourage them to stay away from the bit at the front at, at least at first, right? And you, you can do all that. Stay away from what? Stay away from. The, the bit, the, the Old Testament, like, uh, at first, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, no, no. Start, start with Matthew. Yeah. Don't, don't, don't go. Yeah. Remember I told you in

Pat: 12:29

my book the first time I read, I started reading the Bible and I started from the beginning and I was like, I, I all, I was like, all this bega was just wearing me. I call'em the tudes. I was like, this is good. Yeah. I'm three page, you know, I'm way into this and I'm not. Uh, yeah, I think starting with the book of Matthew always is a

Rich: 12:47

really good place. So you can, we do all that stuff right? But then what you can do, and what I've said to many people is do an alpha course. Why don't you do an alpha course? They're running all the time. They're like, you can do them online. You can do them you the afternoons. In the evenings, you know, most local churches to you will run an af will run an alpha course at some point. So one of the reasons I wanted to do it is because I never did one. Right. I came into faith a different way. We spoke about that before, so I won't bore our listeners with that, that story again. But, um, I. I often recommend them to people, but I've never done one. Right. So like recommending something to someone that you've never done yourself, it's a bit like being like a driving instructor. Yeah, like teaching, I dunno what you call'em over there, but like, teaching people how to drive. But I, I don't have my license, you know, my permit, I don't have. Yeah. Oh no, I can't actually drive, but I can just tell you how to do it. So that's, I can,

Pat: 13:40

I can tell you how to do it. Uh, two things. Uh, now, uh, one thing I just wanted to mention when we were talking about starting with Matthew, what was amazing is when you start with the New Testament and read the New Testaments, what is amazing is then when you go back and start reading the old, then the Old Testament starts making sense, 100%. And you start reading it from a, I start reading'cause I love history, but when I started reading the Bible, I was like, I'm, I'm pouring into this to try to get things to my, in my soul. And, but when you've accepted Jesus, you've read the New Testament, you go back and start reading that Old Testament in a historical, then it actually becomes interesting. It is a little bit of a begetting, but now this stuff has starts jumping off the page. You start learning things, you start seeing predictions, prophecy, uh, is what it's referred to. S you know, 700 years ago that came true. The Bible is just an incredibly, it's a miracle. Matter of fact, if, if, if you're ever talking to an atheist, it's, there's one thing you cannot explain. This bible, this thing is an absolute miracle.'cause nobody, uh, could have just done the things that they've, that the prophecy from 700 years ago, everybody all lined up. I wanted to just kind of mention that two ways. No, no, I think it's brilliant.

Rich: 14:53

I think it's a nice tangent, right? I think it's like it, it's a really important thing to cover, actually. Um.

Pat: 15:00

One question though before you go. Were you talking back on the Bible or were you getting back on that alpha course?

Rich: 15:05

No, let's talk about the Bible for a sec. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, like, so I agree completely once you've, one for me, once I'd like accepted Jesus and I, I really, once I'd accepted grace once I, if you start, if I once the talk for me, once I started to read the Old Testament, but I understood and had a, a sense in my heart of Jesus's love and his grace for us. Then the Old Testament makes sense. If you read the Old Testament without understanding how loved we are and how, you know, the, the gift of his grace and the gift of forgiveness, if you read the Old Testament without having that, it sounds quite scary and quite threatening. And you think, like, I've had it, you know, like this. Yeah. Everybody, yeah. A lot of, A lot of'em. But well like, yeah, this, so a hundred percent. And the mad thing is Pat, right? I, I've thought about this a lot since I came to Faith, right? I never knew what the Bible was. Right? Like I'd seen many. Yeah. I grew up in England, predominantly Christian country even now. Right. Um, I'd seen many, I'd flick through them, I'd heard scripture, I'd been to church many times'cause of family obligations or you know, whatever. Right. Christmas, midnight, mass Carol's, services, all that stuff. Right. I never questioned what that book was like. I never knew it was a historical account. I never knew it was a collection of letters. I never knew it was a collection of songs and poems and like metaphor. I never knew, like I never, but I never asked. I never, I just didn't know what it was. I didn't know who'd written it. I didn't, I had no idea and I had no curiosity about that. And when I sat down and it was explained to me that the, you know, these, you know, this bit, these are some letters written by, by Paul. Yeah. This is, you know, four separate accounts of the same life by people that, that were there. You know, this is, you know, these first five books were written by a, by a guy called Moses. Yeah, then it getting, you get into the, you know, then the Psalmists and Solomon, you know, all that sort of stuff. Like, I never, I'd never even asked myself or asked of the world, you know, like, who wrote this book? Like, where'd it come from? Like, what is this book that. All these people get together in these funny old buildings and like talk about and sing about and like every, so like, I never even asked that. And it's the like the level of kind of ignorance that, and I don't use that in a self judgmental sense, but the level of ignorance I had around that, it's kind of mind blowing to me now. You know, and then when you actually sit down, I'm not even reading the Bible. I'm not even talking about sat down reading the Bible, but what I'm talking about is if you sit down and you can Google it, or you can put it into chat GPT or whatever you want to do, and get an understanding of what the Bible is, who wrote it. Yeah, and like how it came to be when you start to understand what canon, like, how the canon was created, you know, the books that were included, right? Like the letters are included when you actually start to understand that it changes everything, you know, like everything. And um, yeah, it's just such an, I think it's such an important point and I'm glad to you, I'm glad you raised that man.

Pat: 18:15

There's no way to explain how between 30 and 40,'cause I keep hearing different, but that many authors. Wrote a book that completely lined up over all of these years and, and it, it's infallible. I mean, that's absolutely infallible. You have people that, that prophesy Read. Micah five two talks about what will happen to, talks about Jesus 700 years earlier. And it, it's not Nostradamus stuff, it's just real historical, uh, information and it is just a miracle how that book got together. There's nothing else out there. There's nothing else out there that we had dozens of authors and didn't know each other that lived in hundreds of years in different parts, didn't read what they did. That all wrote something that all corresponded and all came together to make one point. And the whole point is. Faith through, uh, salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. Yeah. Is the path. Uh, but yeah, it, I didn't want to, but it's a miracle. We also, actually, I was doing an episode on it'cause I have a lot of information. When you just really start looking at the things, the Bible, I was just like you, it was a book on the table. It was a book in a hotel room. It was a book that for some reason when I started becoming a Christian, I, I went and. Spent my last$20 to go buy one at a bookstore and just to carry it around with me. Didn't even read it, but just had it. And when I first started reading it, I was, uh, to be honest, I was reading it in the way of, you know, I'm gonna read through this whole Bible and God will bless me, type thing. I was at that stage of the game not realizing that this book, it's not there. You don't read it, to impress God. You read it because it is his instruction manual. For life. Yeah. Basic comfort, basic

Rich: 20:09

instructions before leaving Earth. Yeah.

Pat: 20:12

Yes. That, that's it. I have put it all here. And it's so common that we don't realize what a marvel, what a incredible thing that it actually is.

Rich: 20:24

100% man. And um. I was just thinking when you were talking, it's not a book we read to impress God. It's a book we read. It's a book we read to allow God to impress himself on us. Yeah, brilliant

Pat: 20:37

way to put it. That, that is a brilliant way to put it.

Rich: 20:40

That brings us neatly a lovely little segue there, pat. Back into alpha, right? So the alpha started. I'm just, I'm reading, I dunno this off my heart, right? But, so it started in 19 se 1977 at a church called Holy Trinity Brompton known as HTB, local to me, fantastic church. I know one of the elders there pretty well. Lovely, lovely man. And, um, HTB do loads of really, really cool stuff. It's got three different sites. Um, uh, it was one of their, their smallest site was my home church for a while. Beautiful. Uh, just located on the edge of a housing project, what we would call a housing estate council estate. Do loads of fantastic work in the community. Great church. So they started it. But then a gentleman, and this guy's fantastic, I'd encourage anyone to look him up. He's called Nick Gumbel, GUM, excuse me, G-U-M-B-E-L. In 1990, he was a cure, so like a trainee vicar or trainee pastor, he overtook running it Now. He is a very. He's just got this way about him, pat, he's just, this got this warmth, you know, he's like, when I look at him, I just think, I wish you were my grandfather. Like, he's just so lovely. Like, and my, my wife is sort of, we nicknamed him like granddad gumball'cause we just really wish he was our granddad. Right. But Nicky is fantastic and um, his story is so interesting. He was a secular Jew, so a non observant Jew. Right. And he was, um, a what we call a barrister, an attorney. You know, so very, very bright, very, very cognitive, very intellectual man, right? And he, he talks about this openly. Um, and the videos in the course, he, um. He really dismissed religion to the point where he was proudly an atheist and he describes himself actually as quite an aggressive atheist. You know, he would, with that brilliant mind of his, he would kind of dissect anyone's, you know, any argument about Jesus Christ being who he was. Yeah. He would dissect it and, you know, just, you know, zero interest in faith. Right. And then he sat down and he read the New Testament and he said he read it looking to like almost, you know, uh, confirm his belief that it wasn't real. And he said, I read the, I sat down, I read the New Testament from start to finish. And when I, it gives me goosebumps saying this, when I finished it, I knew it was true. Like I knew it was true. You know, that knowing you just getting your heart all of a sudden where you just know like. Yeah, this is real. It happened

Pat: 23:20

numerous times with people that were atheists with, uh, uh, with, with people that were in, in academia that, that they were the biggest proponents of atheism and they went into, the more they dug in the, to prove, the more they discovered that it was real, that Jesus was real.

Rich: 23:40

Hundred percent the first video and all of the videos, all 11 videos are available on YouTube, right? So it's very open access. But I would encourage anyone

Pat: 23:48

to do, lemme ask you this. You talking about this guy? Or you talking about alpha? The alpha. Alpha.

Rich: 23:52

Sorry Pat. Thank you. Okay.

Pat: 23:54

This is what I want to ask, uh, access here. In the United States and maybe even other, you know, we actually have a number of listeners in other countries like Japan. I don't know if you know if anything's over is going on over there as far as Alpha, but how would you access it? You said there's videos or does someone have, does somebody have to physically attend these meetings? Is it, there's, there's

Rich: 24:14

video. The videos are on YouTube, right? Um, alpha itself runs. As a face-to-face co course in 130 different countries, including in the USA. Right. Um, and

Pat: 24:27

about Japan. And Japan, do you, do you see anything on that?

Rich: 24:31

Let me have a quick look. Let's have a look. So you've got Alpha US, a, and we, you can, you could put, um, links up for this right. In our, when we post, um, or not.

Pat: 24:42

Uh, I can, I can try, but just tell them what the, what the link is.

Rich: 24:47

Yeah, no worries. So it's, it's alpha alpha A-L-P-H-A-U-S a.org. So alpha usa.org. And then you go on there and then you would put in, so find an alpha, and I'm assuming you put a zip code in, or whatever you people call it. Um. Let's have a look, find house. So it drills,

Pat: 25:11

it drills down to where it's local. But let's say we,'cause we have people in Germany, we have people in, uh, in Japan. I would assume it would be Alpha.

Rich: 25:20

Yeah, let's have a look. Is it alpha

Pat: 25:22

dot USA or Alpha? Alpha. USA,

Rich: 25:27

uh, just alpha. SA And then you put in, like, I've just put in New York and it's brought up. I dunno. 20 that are running something, something in the next month or so. Mm-hmm. Something like that. And then let's have a look. Alpha Japan Alpha Course in Japan. japan.alpha.org Alpha. And then there's Alpha online.

Pat: 25:57

Wait, say that again about Japan.

Rich: 25:59

Japan dot. alpha.org. Gotcha. But let me just share this bit with you, pat, right. So there's a, there's a video that I, it's the first video, right? And there's a guy, and I can't remember his name, but he was the, do you remember when they mapped the human genome? Do you remember that? Yeah. Like, so they did this huge experiment. They mapped, they cracked the code, the DNA code of humanity, right? So like bi, like billions of bits of data and this, you know, super computers and this huge like, you know, like earth shatteringly. Um, influential Change the face of science. Change the face of medical science. Right. Like biology, all of that. They cracked the code, the DNA code. Right. So you would assume, or I would assume Pat, right? Like the, the gentleman that ran that project Right. Would be quite clever. He would be quite a clever man. Yeah. And he, it's just like what you're talking about, you know, that example of like, um. You know, so many academics. CS Lewis was one, Nicky Gumball we've just spoke about. So this guy, I can't remember his name, he sat down to prove it wrong. You know, like to prove Christianity wrong. To prove it to be a fallacy. Yeah. And. At the end of his efforts to prove it wrong, he converted and became a Christian, and he just said it's like I couldn't argue with it. You know, there's more, and you really learn about that stuff. It's like there's more historical evidence that Jesus Christ walked on the earth. Right, right. There's more historical evidence that the events outlined in the gospels happened than there is for like lots of other things that we wouldn't question in a second.

Pat: 27:48

Socrates Julius Caesar, if you look at the amount of things that were written about Jesus compared to these other historical figures, which we all accept. We, we all accept as facts, but you know, because they were historical, all that probably got changed along the way. There's far more on Jesus Christ. Far more.

Rich: 28:06

Yeah, man. Really?

Pat: 28:07

If you really stopped and looked at it.

Rich: 28:09

Yeah. But,

Pat: 28:09

but you're talking about the back to this alpha course. This is what's interesting. So it plays videos, it plays a lot of these people speaking. It plays, uh, because so many people that. You know, as we did in an earlier episode of spiritual warfare, you know, the, the devil's just constantly barraging people and the more that you're equipped with and in your mind, and, and when you have this information that there is an awful lot of information, there's so much historical data that Jesus was real and that he is who he said he is, and he's not a, um. He wasn't a great talker or a great philosopher or anything like that. He was either the son of God or he was a complete nut job. Yes. He said he was the son of man. You don't walk around and go, well, he was a great philosopher and his teachings, you know about how to treat people. I love all that. And he was just a great, no, he, he said he was the son of man, so I mean, he was the son of God. He's either that or you know, or he is making, he's making stuff up so it's,

Rich: 29:06

yeah. And that's that CS Lewis thing, right? And they talk about that on the, on the video. I don't want to do spoilers for the alpha course, right? But like it's CS Lewis' idea. And again, it's like, it's such a, like, it's like a proper mic drop moment. You know? Like if he was alive, now it's, it's say this, you know, it'd say some of the things he said and just like put the mic down and walk off. He was such, you know, he made these incredibly powerful points so brilliantly. And he said like. Because of that, you know, because like, you know, like you've got a man walking around who's telling you he's the son of God. He either is or he's clinically sane. It's said like what that means is, is like Christianity is either completely relevant or completely irrelevant. There's nothing in between, like nothing. You know, and it's like, it's like, oh yeah. You know? So that kind of cotton, it's, you know, it's such an easy. It's just such an a way, easy way of dismissing the faith, isn't it? It's like, well, yeah, no, like I'm sure he was around and he said some good things, but of course, you know, he wasn't the son of God. Like that would be, that would be crazy. And it's like, well, no, I actually like to. I mean, you just have to look at it. Just, you just have to scratch the surface of this thing. Not from like a faith based, I'm gonna wait, I'm gonna go to church and wait to have those moments that you and I have spoke about so much. Yeah. Like it's like, put all that aside for a second. Have a little look at the evidence. Do you know what I mean? Like, weigh this up. Yeah. Like there is something here that at the very least. Deserves further inspection and investigation in your life, you know? But I guess the thing is, I've mentioned

Pat: 30:48

the disciples that all went out and died horrible deaths. And when all they had to say was, you know, I made all this up. Yeah. I didn't see, I didn't see, I didn't see'em crucified and come back to life. I just made it all up. You know, if someone's standing, if I've been lying about something or if I've just made something up in my head. And somebody's about to stone me, hang me, kill me, throw me off of a cliff. I, at that time, I'm fussing up. I'm like, yeah, you know, God made all this up. But they didn't, not one of them, every single one of them died. Uh, the ones that that died died a, uh, horrific death because they knew the truth about, about Jesus. But that's a great point that you're making. He's not. You, you can't just say he was a great philosopher or he just spoke, uh, great words. He was who he said he was or he wasn't.

Rich: 31:34

Yeah. It's as simple as that, you know? Yeah. Man.

Pat: 31:38

One, one question in on the alpha. So someone in, in, in America, in these countries, can they, do they have to attend in person? What if somebody can't do that? What if it's just some, somebody that's listening to us, new to Christ, uh, struggle with faith? Been a Christian, but. You know, life's been tough or whatever and wants this, this information,'cause this really sounds like some, sounds like something I would like to, to take to, uh, to listen to. Do they have to attend a meeting or can they go online and watch the video? You know, are there videos or there things they can go on and do? Is it, how do they access that?

Rich: 32:16

Well, you can go, you can find your local alpha course. Yeah. Of which they're certainly. Um, in this country there's many, just me just having a quick look at New York. There's many, just a second ago. But there's online ones, so you can join online or you can go onto YouTube and watch the videos. You know, I think it would always be better to do it in a group. I think if it's entirely, if it's possible at all, go and join people in in the room. I think that's the best thing to do. If you can't do that, do an online one. And if for some reason you can't do that, watch the videos. You know, I don't think there's a bad way to do it.

Pat: 32:50

That's what I mean, there, there is an online. America's a really spread out country. We can have someone in a city that's not having one that, you know, doesn't have something that, that's physical. Uh, although I'm, I am ignorant to this. You're, I mean, you're, you've mentioned this to me before, but I'm just now looking into it and I'm gonna look into it to more especially to, to share with people because I run into people and I start talking to'em about Jesus and. You know, then you leave them. And where do and where do they go? Do they go to a good church? Do they walk into the wrong church? There are those, I'm just saying, uh, is there something that can help them, not just with your spirituality, but like you said, it sounds like this actually teaches things, from historical data. It actually teaches things. If it's got CS Lewis in, in involved in it, it's got to have some great information.

Rich: 33:43

It really has. I just, so I've just looked up your part of the world and there, and this is probably why you haven't heard of it, pat. There aren't any, right, so that's what I'm getting at. I'm, I'm trying to tell

Pat: 33:57

if somebody out there that says, this sounds something that, something like something, because you mentioned New York new. It's 3 million people in Manhattan right now. There's not 3 million people in the state of Mississippi. My point is, if somebody can go, Hey, how can they look at that? Uh, we might even do something where we touch, where we discuss it, you know, ongoing in here. I might start viewing some of the videos and then we touch on'em, and then some of our listeners can follow, can maybe follow along a little bit.

Rich: 34:26

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I'm just saying

Pat: 34:29

We're so spread out here. There's so many people that there's an opportunity that they're not going to be able to get to a group meeting, but you're saying it's something that they can go online and start following the Alpha course. Um, and like I said, we might even do that. I might even view one and come on and talk about it and direct people towards it.'cause it sounds like a really good thing. I never had anything like that. I had the bible. I had the pastor what I could see on tv, which was great and has obviously worked for me, but this sounds like something that would really be beneficial to people.

Rich: 35:05

I think it's a great tool and it's a great thing to be able to point people towards. Um, and it's certainly been hugely beneficial for me and my wife did an alpha course after she had her initial, uh, kind of quite supernatural experience actually for her. You know, she was one of those. Kind of came, came in in a place of brokenness and had a, you know, that kind of at the all supernatural experience as you know, that wasn't my, that wasn't my story, but, um, she did. Now for course. Um, I know lots and lots of Christians who like their way in, you know, in the uk uh, their way in was they did Now for course. Um, I have a friend who's a pastor up in Austin. Um, he, his church runs it. Um, so yeah, they're around. Yeah. Texas. Yeah. After asked him to, oh, what is it? To the left, to the right, I. Is it cross Austin? No.

Pat: 36:04

Al Austin for me would be West. It is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. When people say we're going up to the coast. Well, you're going down to the coast. I'm nitpicking here. I guess people

Rich: 36:17

think up to Austin. Yeah. Any, the only way out of Mississippi is up. See, that's what's

Pat: 36:25

so, so unnecessary.

Rich: 36:27

Yeah. And do you know what actually I'm gonna take, I'm gonna, I take that back part like the, you know, obviously, you know, the listeners by now know, like you and I met in Mississippi and, um, you very, you, you were like an, uh, an angel in an hour of need. And you, um, you got me and my friend to, to the airport so we could get a flight in some difficult circumstances. And, um. Do you know what? I loved Mississippi. I liked the people, I liked the food. I thought it was beautiful in lots of ways. Um, it it, it wasn't without its problems. Where is, I don't think anywhere is without, but actually, you know what? I really liked Mississippi and I've been all around the states and I liked Mississippi a lot, so I take it back.

Pat: 37:10

It's, well, I, I know it's all in good fun. Uh, it is a wonderful place. My, my time living in New York, living in New Jersey, traveling the country, made me gain, have a great appreciation for the, the state of Mississippi. Yeah, there are, there's, there's rural, there's property and there's some of the rural, actually I live rural because I love it. It's, uh, I love the, uh. The, the piece, and you know, they say it's in the Bible belt, so you know when you walk through Mississippi and you, the person opens the door for you, or you pull up at the stop sign and can't understand why the person's sitting there looking at you. They were letting you go. I, it took me seven years to remember. That's how we drove down here in Mississippi. Um, now people still don't know how to drive. They'll get in that left lane, although the left lane is the right lane for you guys. But over here, if you get, the person will get in the passing lane, like they have nothing to do in their life. And they'll sit there going 45 and, uh, and they'll test your Holy Spirit. When that's happening. But it is a, it is a wonderful place. And you know, we don't have the alpha courses, but there's a, as you mentioned in an earlier episode before, we have churches on every corner. So, uh, you know, I'll, I'll pass more churches that I pass dear. And by the way, I almost, you always ask if I take out a, if I bag bagged a deer, well, you know, I don't hunt, but I, I almost one took me out on my way. Back into town because one of the biggest things you do at this time of year is you Dodge Deer. Years ago I had one that I couldn't dodge did$3,000 worth of damage to the front of my Jaguar. So I'm, I'm white knuckling the steering wheel every time I'm driving at this time of year.'cause the deers are happening. But, uh, but yes, Mississippi is a wonderful place. But this alpha course does sound like a great idea and we might do some. Some follow up on that. I wanna start looking into it because it sounds like something that it educates people. Is that what, that's what you're saying. You're saying it tells videos as people like CS Lewis. It's not just, it's just, it, it, it's like

Rich: 39:08

it's education, but it's also community, you know, like coming together. It's like spiritual learning. It's quite challenging. It is gentle, but it doesn't mess about, it's just, it's clever. Like, it's really, really clever. The way they've done it is, it's, it's just, it really hits the spot. Let me just read, um, so I'm reading from chat GPT, but just, I just wanted to kinda summarize it so to order, help us order our thoughts, Patrick.'cause I know that's something that we can both struggle with sometimes. Um, so Alpha. It gives an accessible route into Christian belief. For the unchurched, it's highly relational. The meal, then the talk, the video, and then discussion builds trust. It sits comfortably in a postmodern, exploratory culture, and it encourages genuine encounter with Christian spirituality through the Holy Spirit. And that's it, man. You know what I mean? Right.

Pat: 40:17

But again, people can without, uh, or they could start one themselves.

Rich: 40:24

Well, that's, yes, exactly. Exactly. So yeah, man, it's a great thing. Um, I'm getting a lot out of it. We're just getting to the end of ours. Shereen has been leading, um. On this course, whereas I have been a participant, which is, um, interesting and has, you know, I'm not used to being the, I'm not used to being the one, I'm, it, I'm used to things being the other way around Pat, you know, so that's been like, it's

Pat: 40:51

like me. It's, it's tough. Yeah. It's,

Rich: 40:54

yeah. Yeah.

Pat: 40:55

Everything I do, I'm used to having to walk in the room and direct start directing traffic, so.

Rich: 41:01

Yeah. So that's been,

Pat: 41:03

yeah, I feel for you, man. But it's good. It's a good thing. So you let her, do you know what, it's,

Rich: 41:06

it's actually been really, that's been really quite good for me. Yeah.'cause, um, I'm a, a man that can struggle with a bit of, uh, a bit of pride and a bit of, bit of hubris. So, um, yeah, it's been good for me.

Pat: 41:19

Been there and done that. Nothing, nothing better to cure you with that than marriage. So, yeah,

Rich: 41:25

man, I just feel really moved Pat, I feel really prompted to, um, just as we end, right, just to, you know, we've been talking about the Bible, but just to read one of the bits of scripture that really when I came in, this just soap spoke to me and, um, it's just, it's John one, you know, um, you know,'cause we're talking about like, who, well, who is Jesus? Do you know what I mean? Like, in the beginning was the word. The word was with God, and the word was God. That's Jesus. He was with God in the beginning. Through him, all things were made. Without him, nothing was made. That has been made in him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. And that's it, man, who's Jesus. That's, that's the answer to the question. Who is Jesus? That's

Pat: 42:20

Jesus. That's, that's who he is.

Rich: 42:21

Yeah. Amen.

Pat: 42:22

That is who he is. And, and now we are in the season, uh, where we do celebrate his birth. We don't know exactly when he was born, but this is the time when we do that. And our next episode we will discuss that.

Rich: 42:33

We'll,

Pat: 42:36

well thank you for bringing that, that information. alpha.org. Or Alpha Germany, alpha Japan. Just Google what you have and Yeah. And people Canal,

Rich: 42:47

alpha usa do org. Yeah. But yeah. Lovely. Alright, Patrick. Good, good seeing you, man. Always a pleasure. Um, is it pleasure, catfish for dinner, I assume?

Pat: 42:58

No, no Catfish for dinner. You know how I, you know how I roll during the week? I watch what I eat. I'm kind of mild mannered. I'm, I'm still got a little Thanksgiving stuff left over, so I'll eat that, but I'll watch. And then on the weekend is when I can break out the cat. But you know, that's a good idea. I might have to fry some catfish coming up, uh, coming up this weekend. I will not be catching it though. I'm an asphalt cowboy. I go down to the grocery store and I buy it frozen. So, uh. So it's good talking to you and everyone out there. Uh, we hope you all are well and also, uh, um, uh, wanna remember that we do have a mess, a text message, emails. If anybody has something that, a question about what we're talking about or about the Alpha course or, uh, anything they would like to discuss, or if they'd like us to pray for them about something, uh, feel free to hit the text link. Just send us a text. You don't have to tell us your name, just. Tell us what's going on or you can email me at pat mccool.com from my website and we would be glad to in involve you and see if we can't help and encourage you along the way. So great seeing you Rich. If you're gonna close us out there.

Rich: 44:07

Lovely Patrick, thank you very much and um, God bless everyone. See you next time. Bye.