Two Unlikely Christians
Following a chance meeting in 2024, Mississippi comedian Pat McCool and UK based psychotherapist Richard Turrell, have built a relationship based on their shared faith in Jesus and the dramatic changes coming to faith has had, and continues to have on their lives. They talk, laugh and share that journey as an expression of their passion to help others have the same experience.
Two Unlikely Christians
Ep 24: Destructive Effects of Anger
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Richard and Pat discuss the impact that the subconscious anger that we all carry has on us mentally, physically and emotionally. How recognizing what's happening can help us take positive steps to overcome it.
And welcome to the two Unlikely Christians podcast. I am comedian Pat McCool, coming to you from the stormy pine woods of South Mississippi and now all the way to the East coast up to Bermuda. And then hundreds and hundreds of miles across the Atlantic Ocean. We find a steam psychotherapist, an addiction specialist in London, England. My man, Richard. Tol, how you doing, rich?
Rich:Yes. Yes, yes. Pat. Pat Mack. Nice to see you, man. I'm doing well. Thank you. Happy New Year.
Pat:Happy New Year to you. It's, it's been a couple of weeks. We took a little time off.
Rich:Yeah, man. A little Christmas break. Um, yeah, been a nice, a nice break this end. Had some nice time off work. Did lots of really nice stuff with the church. Um, over the Christmas break. Um, I probably, that's a relatively new Christian got a, you know, really in touch with what Christmas is really. It is really about, lemme put that on silent, got really in touch with what Christmas is about, probably for the first time. Um, so yeah, it was been a, it was lovely. Yeah. And how, how about you?
Pat:Well, for me it's ironic because, uh, that says a lot about what you're saying about being, being a new Christian because, you know, I love Christmas. I start looking forward to it around September. But then. We get to Christmas and our last episode was the reason for the season, of course, which was celebrating the birth of Jesus, uh, which we, I thought we had a good episode upon that. And then we get to the Christmas holidays, which I look forward to all of the time. And then when the holidays actually get here, Richard, they turned out to me you actually, uh, who didn't have the great greatest Christmas growing up. Had a pretty wonderful Christmas. It sounds like you and Shereen devoted your time in the church and focused on the important things. I who am involved in all these Christmasy things kind of got worn out over the two weeks period and I, and I realize this is what always happens. I look forward to it. I'm thinking I'm gonna relax. My last show was the second week, in December, so I had a couple of weeks I was gonna relax, enjoy, catch up on some things, and then the season gets here and all the, the visiting and the, and the gift givings and the shopping and, and then I'm worn out. Once it's over, I'm like, man, I'm glad this is over because this is actually a kind of a stressful time and you know, you got people coming that you love to see. My wife's a clean freak, so. I have to, even though it's family, you know, my wife treats it like, you know, representatives from better Homes and Gardens are showing up. So I'm, you know, I'm, I'm out there, I'm cleaning stuff up that hadn't been cleaned all year long and by the time it's over, it's all worn out. But it was a great time and got to solve family. It gotta see family and, uh, it looks like, uh, y'all had a great time of it, so that, that's wonderful.
Rich:Yeah, it was nice, man. Did you say something? There's some storms over there, some typhoons. What's, what's happening?
Pat:Hmm. We don't have typhoons, typhoons are going to affect, um, when you're near oceans, that's more Southeast Asia. So look, I would look tornado. Tornadoes. Yes, tornadoes and yeah, tornadoes are probably the most problematic because they just pop up out of nowhere. So, as I mentioned to our listeners, um, just so they can get a point of reference, I am in these deep, well, I'm on this lake out in these, in these deep woods outside of Hattiesburg, Mississippi, about 15 to 20 miles, and we're in this old pine forest. One of the biggest industries here is. Pine, we, we've had these huge pine trees, these lob lolly pine. There's a good chance that the flat you're living in is built from these type pines, from these woods. And I'm looking out at a hundred year old pine trees outta my window. Uh, I love the history, but the problem is I. When the brain picks up in storms and we're out in this rural area and there's so much pine, a lot of this is owned by timber companies. And when the wind blows, we get the, the, the branches will come off, hit the power lines, boom. We're out of power. So that's why I told you when we first, uh, when I first clicked on, if I disappear, we're toast for a couple hours.'cause it takes a minute for the guys do a great job, but there's just so much out here. And we had a, drought about three years ago, and when you have a drought. The bowl. These pine, uh, beetles get into these trees and it kills the trees. And if you don't take the trees down, which people do on their property, but they don't do out on all these rural roads, so those things are just sitting there rotting. You've got this 90 foot tree and a little bit of wind comes in, a branch comes off and hits the power line and knocks it out. That's what I worry about the most is the, uh, lack of power. But we do have to, we already have one this morning where my daughter lives 30 minutes down the road. I woke up warning, I've gotta text her. That's what parents do, Richard, you're the guy. Well, if a torn, if there's storms in the area, you're alerting all the kids and everybody, you know, there's a tornado coming. And the problem with them is they just spin up so fast. A typhoon or a hurricane, you know, it's coming. You've got time to prepare, but a tornado just pops up five miles down the road and the next thing you know, everybody's all gathered up in the storm closet or storm cellar, if you have one, which I don't. But I do actually have a closet. But it's tied down right now. So I think we are pretty much good to go and, uh, ready to get the new year started. Man, like I said, yeah
Rich:man, well, you know, in, in, in, in England we still talk about hurricane we had in 1987.
Pat:I Googled that.
Rich:You told me that. Yeah. True story man. True story. We still talk about that. You know, so our weather's like we just, there were so many things that can kill you out there, you know, that we don't, that we don't have over here. Um, yeah, but look, I'm worried about you, pat. Have you taken preparations? Have you got the meth lab secured? Is that all? That's
Pat:what the metal
Rich:squared away
Pat:is secured. Yeah. You do that underground.
Rich:Okay.
Pat:You do it underground because if it blows up, you don't draw as much. You don't draw as much attention to yourself. You see,
Rich:yeah.
Pat:There's, there's a problem with them, with'em blowing up out here. So yeah, we kind of dig a hole in the ground. Matter of fact, if a tornado comes, we could turn the meth lab into, uh, you know, into the
Rich:show up.
Pat:Yeah.
Rich:Yeah. Yeah, man, that seems good. I mean, you've come to the trouble of digging it, so
you
Pat:might use it. That's why your brain's of the outfit, I never thought I gotta go down. Tell Gwen we've gotta get some, we gotta get some plywood, and we just go down there in the meth shelter, you know?
Rich:Yeah, yeah.
Pat:Which is, that's what we call it. Everybody. Everybody into the meth shelter.
Rich:No ice man, no ice.
Pat:So, but I don't think I'll have to run into that this morning hopefully. But we do have a little bit of it. But like I said, I am excited about the new year. I'm not a guy that makes New Year's resolutions. I don't know if, if you are, but, uh, I am somebody that tries to make plans to, to always dramatically improve and improve life. And, um, and that's I think what we wanna do with this podcast this year. You know, we are the two unlikely Christians podcast. And, and our, our, one of our main themes is Jesus changed our lives and made it, uh, hallelujah, uh, so much better. Gave us peace, gave us salvation, gave us joy. But Jesus also directs us to things that can help improve our lives'cause we are human beings and human beings. Uh, are naturally wired to go the wrong way. And the topic that you have picked today that I think you have, you were telling me something about it, now I've looked into it, I think is a fantastic way to start off 2026 because we want to help transform our listeners and, and help improve people's lives. And one of the biggest things I think we all deal with is the topic that you wanted to talk about today. And that is. Anger. That's powerful. And did you say you had been on a course or you had, if you wanna just take it from there and then just tell me what you've learned, what you've been looking into.
Rich:Absolutely Pat. Thanks man. So, um, I've been doing some work, uh, with a colleague called David Wolfson. Uh, he's a, um, a North London psychotherapist. Worked in the field for, I think coming up on three decades. So he's like a real, uh, a real pedigree. You know, he's, um, he's got some, he's got some years behind him, you know, a real kind of black belt psychotherapist, you know, very, you know, I find him extremely, um, impressive and inspiring. Um, and he's developed a, uh, like a model, um. It's, so, his, his outfit, his company's called Anger Planet. Um, but he and his model, it, it, it, it is basically, it's like making anger your friend, right? So it's like understanding anger, knowing what to do with it in terms of like how to manage it so it doesn't become. Like destructive and problematic, you know?'cause of course it can. Um, you know, when, especially when it tips into rage and anger gets a bad rap, you know, we see anger as a bad thing, but actually it's a quite a natural human emotion, you know? Um, and. Yeah, so I did a, you know, some work with him. I was looking at his model, you know, understanding how he works with people, how he supports people that are experiencing issues with their anger. And, um, yeah, I just thought it's such a great topic to talk about, right?'cause when I think about it then from the, like the Christian lens through the Christian lens, through, you know, you know, from that perspective, I think, um. You know, this is actually something we spoke about not too long ago, pat, but you know, it is easy to like fall into, or it's been easy for me to fall into and I've seen other people fall into it. You know, that idea that if we're saved, right? If we've become followers of Jesus, you know, we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Um, you know, we were a new creation right then. Um, we shouldn't get angry, you know, and, and that's definitely not been my experience, right? So I I, I've kind of, you know, and at times I've rated myself for that, particularly in the early phases of the, the, the Christian journey. You know, if, if I'm, I've had this. Miraculous, uh, restoration, redemption, salvation. Then why am I still getting angry? And, uh, I just thought it was such an important topic to talk about, particularly in that, um, you know, I don't know how it is for you, pat, but like over here, like sometimes in in church on Sunday, everyone looks so happy and perfect and you know, it's hallelujah and praise the Lord and waving your hands around and, you know, everything's great. But actually, you know, the other kind of six days. 22 hours of a of a week, things can look quite different for people. And I think it's hard sometimes for people to talk about that. I think, you know, we can create an environment where actually it's quite difficult for people to talk about. Like there's struggles, there's shortcomings, there, difficulties, you know, and um, so I just thought, yeah, like, well, you know, when we were messaging, um, in the Gap, you know, over Christmas and our last, you know, between our last podcast and this podcast, I just, yeah, it struck me it would be a really. Important thing to talk about.
Pat:I agree. Because I think it's one of the biggest things that we, all that, that we all deal with. And I do.'cause you know, I've, I've referenced to you before how people that see me on the outside, and this is really, I am pretty laid back. Joyful, happy, jolly person. But for some reason I have, with all the peace, all the joy, all the happiness that I have in my life, I've got this festering thing. Remember how, you know, I always tell you about the woman at the grocery? At the gas station? At the gas station. But that I, that was just one thing that stuck out in my mind. But, you know, I go in and I, and I go shopping and I'm, you know,'cause I gotta make that one pilgrimage to go buy my wife's. Something. And, and I immediately get in there, and I, and uh, and you start getting irritated at things like, I noticed that over the holidays my dog was, was kept waking me up in the, and you just feel this little festering thing. And, and we always, I mean, they're yelling at my dog for something that, you know, if a dog's not behaving, it's'cause I haven't trained the dog to behave.'cause I am a horrible trainer. But the point is. I always have some kind of little festering anger and everybody does. This world is full of it. I just read two days ago, somebody in the target parking lot in Savannah, Georgia shot a guy, uh, a father of three young kids over a parking space. Just they're arguing over a parking space and I don't think this guy shoots this guy over this parking space. I think he shoots the guy over this pent up anger that everybody's got kind of bubbling under the surface if you go on any kind of social media. And it's just amazing that, that people always, there's something inside of us that I don't know that if you have learned. From what you're studying with, uh, with your colleague or not, but there's something inside of us, whether you're a Christian, whether you have Jesus inside of you or not. There's something that, that, there's an anger level inside of all of us that's just waiting to pop. I, I read, um,'cause I did, I did some research on it and this one guy that does a lot of research into it, he said, you know, when you, when you pop at little small things. It means you're already running. He said you already are, are running that level. You already have this level of anger inside of you, and it's subconscious. You know, it's like in your car when you're driving your car and you're going, you know, 50 miles an hour or 70 kilometers or whatever it is in England, you're at a certain speed and when you pop that gas, you know, all of a sudden now you're going at a much higher speed. Whereas when you're just starting from the jump and you press the gas pedal, it takes a minute to get up there. And I think one reason why people can pop into a rage so, so heavily and so quickly is because we have it in us and it's subconscious, our listeners out there, I guarantee you there are people that that may not realize it, but you've got it in you. And I don't know if it comes from childhood, I don't know if it's just comes from Satan himself. I don't know if it's just human nature, but there's something. That's bubbling in all of us, uh, that causes us to be quick to get angered about something.
Rich:Yeah, absolutely. And I think in that, you know, that idea that, like where does it come from? Well, I, I think the, the tricky thing is I if, if we label all anger as coming from the enemy, right? Then actually like, we miss, we miss something, you know?'cause we know, one of the things I've been learning about is how anger's, like, it's motivating, you know? It's what drives assertiveness. It's what drives, it's what tells us when our boundaries have been crossed. Yeah. Um, it, it can be a secondary emotion. Right. So you mentioned
Pat:this before.
Rich:Okay. Or sec, secondary emotion. Yeah. So like, it's like actually like actually if, if, if I, if I start feeling angry and I want to kind of attack, um, actually what I might feel, I might be feeling shame, you know, I might be feeling scared, you know, um, you know, there's other emotions that sit behind it, right? So, you know, angers a messenger, like it's telling us things, right? Like it's, it might be telling us that something's not okay, you know, so. There's a lot to it if we allow it to be there. Obviously, like we know, you know, for those that struggle with anger, which you know, has been part of my story, for those that struggle with anger and, you know, can tip into rage and attacking others, you know, verbally or indeed physically or like, as you've just mentioned, you know, it needs to be like controlled, right? But like, actually, like there's so much involved in it that if we are just like. Fall into that trap of being like, that's the enemy. You know, that's the, that's the enemy then actually like this, it's like a, a part of our, like human nature that gets missed. Right. Um, and then I was thinking about, so I did a little reading myself Pat, about like, if we look at anger in the Bible right then I'm just putting my notes up. Then actually we can, we can see times when. Like, we can see times when Jesus got angry. You know, there were times when he, when he was clearly frustrated, you know, he was angry with the Pharisees, you know, he was angry outside the temple when he flipped the tables. Yeah. With the money, uh, uh, the, the merchants. Outside the temple, you know, he was angry with them. Right. Um, you could see, you can see when he gets frustrated with the disciples, you know, when he's kind of like, you know, there's a bit that, that always, there's a line that always stands out to me.'cause I sometimes I kind of imagine him say, saying it to me. You know, but their repeated lack of faith. He's like, are you still so dull? Yeah. You know, there's a bit in it where he, he, you know, in the gospel story where he is, he's kind of like, he's basically saying like, don't you get it yet? You know, don't, like, don't you get it yet? You know, so we see that actually, like, you know, he is angry, right? He gets angry, right. But what he does is he expresses it. You know, and it's not, you know, expresses it in ways that are like productive, you know? And like
Pat:to your point in, in the Bible, because I did a little, uh, research, the, the total mentions in the Bible are, are between 300 and 500 times. They discuss anger, but there's divine anger and then there's human anger. Now that divine anger, uh, that refers to God's anger, God's wrath, and that's usually against sin injustice. Uh, unrighteousness. But then human, uh, anger is discussed is that's between the destructive, sinful anger and righteous anger, uh, which is a passion against evil or injustice. So there's two entirely different things. And you had mentioned something way back in one of the episodes, you would say, you know, anger's actually good anger can all of a sudden make you realize, whoa, wait a minute. There is danger here. There's something here. Someone's, you know, actually really trying to do something wrong that could cause me harm or cause me problems. You want to get angry if someone's, you know, trying to get hurt you, but, it's how it's how you handle it, I think is the key. And there's, um. You know, the anger, actually I, like I said, I researched it a little bit. Anger actually dulls your thinking, and it makes your brain small and inflexible. And this little article said it pulls blood and glucose outta your thinking and it dumps it into your survival circuitry. And then it shrinks your prefrontal cortex and hippocampus, which means you have fewer brain cells, smaller brain, and reduced iq. Uh, that means when you get anger into a rage. You're actually not as smart. You're actually not thinking as a level head. So the whole thing is to be able to control it and differentiate. Differentiate between what is the righteous anger and what is not. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because we as human beings, I know we get angry about so much stuff that's just non, you know, it's nonsensical has no impact on us. But what happens when all those things that happen that the, if you have chronic anger, this little article said it, it kind of puts your nervous system into thinking that you're in a constant threat scenario. So what you're talking about where the anger is good, because if you really get a threat. But if you're angry all the time, your, your nervous system thinks that you're constantly under threat. Yeah, exactly. That's what you know gets you, and also it says it lowers your sense sensitivity to dopamine. So it actually takes away your, you know, your opportunity to enjoy life and and to have pleasure. So, you know, so much of the key is getting a handle on it. And differentiating between righteous anger. Is this something that I really have? To be angry about? Or am I just angry about somebody took my parking space? Am I angry because the woman cut in front of me at the TJ Maxx? Am I angry because somebody has a different political opinion about me? Am I angry about something silly like they dissed my football team? You know, I mean, you know, don't always talk about that, but it's a big deal over here. But it's just these little things that people get angry about. Um. That once we learned to get control of it, and I started doing a thing where I, I just used the word wait, like, what am I troubled by? Like, why is this bothering me?
Rich:That's
Pat:nice. Cut. And, and I've just started telling myself is the second something starts to give me that feeling of, of anger because, and it also kind of ties in. You remember the laughter. Uh, do with good like a medicine episode we did about the microphages. And when you laugh, the microphages attack the bacteria. And when you don't, the bacteria when you're angry or what the bacteria's, uh, I don't think it was just laughter. I think it's just the mood and, and kind of what you're focusing on. So when, when you have this anger that's, that that's inside of you, it's drawing everything down and it's also, uh, making you, for lack of a better word, dumber. I can remember get getting in arguments or debates back in my corporate career, whatever. And the matter I got, uh, the less effective I was. But whenever I'm just calm and I'm just sitting there thinking things through, I can think of rebuttals points, counterpoints, uh, I'm a lot more effective in everything I'm doing in life. And that goes with your family, that goes with everything that everybody that you're dealing with. So when I just started telling myself, just wait. Just that word would pop up. And the acronym was, what am I troubled by? Why is this bothering me? Well, if this is real, if this is something that could cause harm or, or, uh, detriment to me or my family, why I need to deal with this. But if this is just something silly, then I'm being emotional about move on.
Rich:One of the questions, the great questions, uh, that was posed, uh, by David Wolf, which is one of the tools he uses, is like, is this gonna matter in five minutes? You know?
Pat:There you go. Okay, well
Rich:good. Is this gonna matter in five minutes? You know, and it's such a great leveler, but let, let me just let look at some of my notes, pat. Just to, I think, bounce, bounce, bounce off a little bit of what you were saying.
Pat:Yeah, please do while you are, but, but he's right what he said. That's what I, that's what I found. Is this gonna matter In five minutes I'm sitting here upset about something that means absolutely nothing to my way of life. So anyway, go ahead.
Rich:Yeah, I mean, this is a really nice. Way to think about it. Righteous anger is anchored in love and justice. Destructive anger is anchored in ego, fear or injury, you know, and then from a psychological perspective, so healthy anger's proportionate. It's time limited and it leads to clarity or action. Unhealthy anger becomes chronic fuels, rumination and grievance and justifies aggression or withdrawal. Um, so I think those are really nice distinctions to have. Um, and then it, I made a note of some, some scriptures, right? So mark three, five, Jesus looked at them in anger, deeply distressed. Um, Proverbs 29 11, A fool gives a full vent to his anger, and I think it's the, the, the, the really important word in that is full. You know, that doesn't say like a fool. It gives vent to his anger. It says a full, gives full vent to his anger. So it's sort of like talking about that ability to have some level of like, kind of discernment and, um, regulation and be able to judge like what's appropriate and, and what isn't. Um, so I think those are like, they're just really important points to consider rather than just throwing it all out over here. We have an expression like, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. You know, so it's. You know, like there, there's a lot of good, like purpose and information and important, it, you know, anger actually serves an important function in our lives. You know, it's not all bad far from it. Yeah. But. It can be destructive if it goes too far, if it's not kind of handled correctly, you know, but without it then where do we get to? I mean, if you suppress your anger, like, and you know, one way of doing that can be, if you think it by default, all anger is a bad thing, so you suppress it and you keep it down. And maybe Connor. Like, just sort of tell yourself that it's okay. It's it's all right. It doesn't matter. Everything's fine. You know, I'm, and then that's probably when you end up shooting a guy in the parking lot, you know, over something so small, you know, but not wanting to make light of what happened. Obviously that sounds terrible, but yeah, that's what I think.
Pat:I can't find right now that, that, um, that. I think you had mentioned too, on your notes when you started saying that, do you remember the very first thing you just, you, you said that David had said,
Rich:uh uh oh, like they give it five minutes.
Pat:Yeah. Then, then the next thing you, the next thing you
Rich:say, oh, this is from my notes. Actually, it makes the distinction like righteous anger, so this is more from a Christian perspective. Righteous anger is anchored in love and justice. Destructive anger is anchored in ego, fear, or injury.
Pat:That's it. That's it right there. That, and I gu and I guarantee you that's what causes me, the person who thinks that he's evolved so, so well in all of my. I'll give myself credit.
Rich:Uh,
Pat:Richard, like I was like, I was doing the day that I blew up at the lady in the,, in, in the parking lot. But it's anchored in, what did you say? Fear, ego.
Rich:Ego, fear or injury.
Pat:Yeah. That's a perfect way. And I think that's that. Like you said, they're on those two extremes. One where you shoot a guy in a parking lot and the other that I think that our listeners can relate to, hopefully nobody's, on the verge of shooting anybody in a parking lot. I just think most people have a little bit of, my wife is one of the nicest people, most kindest people you could ever meet. And during the holidays when we're having all this joy and all this fun, you know, preparing the house and everything, I hear her in there, get a little, you know, she's starting to get a little, if something happened and, uh, just something kind of, but she didn't get angry and out, you know, I just heard her in another room. I was like, oh, hey look, mother Teresa, just, uh. Just, just kind of got a little hotheaded in there about, about something. And I think so many of us have that. And I think it really, really hurts us and hurts our lives when they're talking about it. Lowers your dopamine actually, keeps you in a state, a bad state that prevents you from having joy, having peace and having happiness in life. And. On scripture. Um, you know, one of my favorite of all time is Galatians 5 22 23. But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
Rich:Yeah,
Pat:and I think that's the key is self-control. And, and you explained it because if you just go. I just shouldn't be angry. I said, suppress my anger. I don't think that's the case. If there's somebody out there that has a reason to be angry at something, it could be something in a marriage, it could be something in business, it could be something. If you have address it. But don't let it build up. But that fear and that ego, I think that's a subconscious thing that we may carry all the way. You know, I'm always talking about going back to childhood, that we may carry all the way back to child. There's something inside of us that can just cause us to get angry very quickly, and most people aren't gonna act on it. But if the person pulls into your parking space and you get mad about it and you're still stewing about it, you're lowering the quality of your life. You're diminishing the fruit of the Holy Spirit that God has given us, that happiness, that peace and that joy that, that we should be able to go through life with because we carry it. I've always had a thing that you go out and. You know, if you encounter 10 people, you know, in the south, you know how people are very nice and hospitable. In the South you'll encounter 10 people. Nine will be very nice to you. One person, one person will be a, you know what? And that's the person that you think about. When you get, it's like as a comedian, I can go in and have 300 people in a room and they can all be blowing up, uh, in laughter. And that one woman on the front row that somebody drugged there that didn't want just staring at me and I'm. I'm blocking out all the joy, all the good, all the happiness, and I'm thinking about what is going on with this, with this lady here that's just staring at me, uh, and doesn't think that I, I'm the least bit amusing. My point is, it's kind of what we're focusing on. So we, if we focus on the things that make us angrier or let'em get to us, when I started doing that, as I said, just telling myself, wait. Wait, if I look at something online or just wait, is that Richard said a, he actually said it best. Is this gonna matter?
Rich:Mm,
Pat:in five minutes. That's the best way. I use it as an acronym of why am I troubled? In other words, like, is this really gonna affect my life in any way? When he's saying, is this gonna matter in five minutes? Because if it's not gonna matter in five minutes, it's not gonna matter in 15 minutes. Then it doesn't matter five hours or five days, it doesn't matter. You're just sitting there stewing about nothing. And I think that that also causes those microphage macrophages that we talked about. It just puts you in different states and learning how to control your anger, and as you said. Uh, differentiate between the two. Yeah. Are we dealing with righteous anger? Do you have a reason to be angry? Angry? Because you mentioned it way back in, in one of the episodes, you said, well, some anger is good because anger can stop you from letting somebody take advantage of you and harming you. But most of what bothers us is not that. If you got some issue like that, deal with it, but if not, uh, learn to let it go. Did David in his courses give any. Kind of lessons, anything to learn to help people.
Rich:Yeah, absolutely, man. It was like, so like noting the what happens in the body? Yeah. Like without, sort of, without judgment. Right. So just like recognizing like what's going on. So is it like the chest is like tight? Is it that the, you know, the guts are churning, you know, what is it that's actually happening in the body? And then also looking at like what we make things mean. So, you know, we, we all assign meanings to different things, right? So it's like if someone, like say you've just given a good example, right? It's like you've got 300 people in a room. 299 of'em are laughing. Yeah. They think you are like the best comedian that ever walked the earth white. And one of them is sat there. That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Just one of them. Right. But what you make that mean in that moment potentially? Is that like that he doesn't think you are funny. Yeah, right. Actually, like who knows? He might have come with his wife, his wife's dragged him to this comedy show'cause she thinks it would be good for him to get out and actually he's just lost someone. You know? Like, but like what the, what what we make things mean, you know? So it's like if I get criticized, um, you know, for something I've done. Home. You know, like I, you know, I, I, I, I can make that mean something completely different to what it means, you know, I can blow things right up out of proportion, you know, like I get, you know, I dunno, like, I haven't performed some household chore in the way that like, it could have been done. You know? And what I can make that mean is that I'm not good enough, right? And that, like, I, I, I'm, I'm, I've failed in some way. And then I might get quite angry about that. You know, but, um, but actually it means, it's like I just didn't do it in the way that it could have been done or I missed a bit, you know? But it's, it's what we make. It's what we make things mean. You know, I know earlier in my journey, like I would, you know, I would make, you know, like professionally, if I got something wrong or didn't do it perfectly, I would make it mean all sorts of things about me.'cause I had still had so many negative core beliefs about myself, you know? Um. And, and a good way to kind of hide from those kind of internal narratives is to, is to get angry, you know? Um, so yeah, it is understanding those kind of narratives. Using like some breath, you know, like just breathing. You know, when you start to feel angry, when you notice the guts are churning. When you notice that the narratives start playing, I'm not good enough. They don't think I'm good enough, you know, they're all against me, whatever it might be. You know, let's just breathe. Just breathe. And then actually, and you referenced some like brain stuff earlier. You know, it's like when we're angry like that, our limbic system, so our midbrain, that emotional part of our brain is really taking over. And that prefrontal cortex, the logical part of our brain is going off. Yeah. Um,
Pat:this article that I read said to what's happening is it, it's dumping it into your survival. It's pulling the
Rich:blood out. So you on, so you are on that instinct. You are running on that kind of instinct, right? And actually breathing is a really good way you. To actually, just to bring that kind of thinking back online, you know, just to, you know, just to fire up the thinking, the logic again, you know? Um,'cause what will often happen is someone will get angry, they'll do something, say something, break something hurt, something hurt themselves, hurt someone else. Be that verbally or physically, right? When all of that threat system stuff is, is happening, you know, like the, the red lights flashing and the sirens are going, you know, but then of course the anger passes. The thinking comes back online and the thinking says, why did you do that? Like, and then that's the rich breeding ground to then fall into the shame. And then you end up in a cycle, you know, of like, you know, shame, feeling terrible about it, you know, lowering, you know, you lower your opinion of yourself a bit further. Yeah. Reinforce some negative core beliefs about yourself. Yeah. And then the next time something comes that triggers them. They're even more powerful. Blow up, do something you regret thinking comes back online. See, I really am a piece of SHIT, you know, and so it goes round, man. Do you know what I mean? So it's finding ways out of that cycle. So yeah, like analyzing the narratives, remembering to breathe, being with what is going on physically, and also like, um, starting to try and recognize what's going on behind the anger. You know, a lot of the time for me it's shame. You know, like, I feel angry. What I'm really feeling is shame, you know? And, um, yeah, so various bits and pieces like that. Another thing David spoke about, which was brilliant actually, was, um, he, he says he gives his clients, he gives him a magic wand, right? And with this, with this magic wand, right? They can tell the future. And it's like, you know what you talking about David? Right? And he said like, basically most things that are gonna happen in life, you can actually predict, you know, like you can actually predict that if you go to, you know, to the gas station. Sooner or later someone's gonna like. You know, be annoyed, sat behind you. Like you can actually, you can, you pretty much like know how people are gonna respond to things. You know, a lot. Like if we really think about it, a lot of things that make us angry often, we kind of know that they're gonna happen. We can predict 90% of what's gonna happen in our lives, like week to week, you know? So it's like what you get, you know, it's entirely possible to get angry about things actually. You kind of know like they're inevitable anyway, is his point. You know, it's inevitable that some of this stuff's gonna happen. In life, right? So like how much do you wanna invest in that? How much do you wanna invest in things that actually aren't gonna manage five minutes later? So those that are just some of examples of his, um, his tools, which I thought were just excellent.
Pat:Sounds like it. Um, one thing you said earlier that caught my attention,'cause that is what happens when I get angry and I kind of lose it a little bit. Outwardly to other people, I do that. But you exactly what you said, you start thinking less of yourself. You start thinking, maybe I'm not as far as far along as I thought I was. You start actually thinking bad. I'm somebody that got you. It's like you almost disrespect yourself. How could I get mad over something like this? What's wrong with me? And that's kind of what I think what he was, he was pointing out. But I think the, the whole theme of what we're discussing here is that. You can control this. And that's what he is saying. That's what his whole courses, I guess is talking about. Yeah. What he is trying to teach people that you can control. In the article that I read, that is one thing they said, take a deep breath and glance around and just change your focus and then you'll move on. And that will help you realize that whatever you're driving down the road, irrit irritated about. Or the person in front of you that you think disrespected you? I think in our discussion it's, it's coming out that we're, A lot of that is when you're talking about ego, you're feeling disrespected by something that's day to day anger that you're being disrespected or being rejected. I was laughing when you were talking about the audience.'cause it dawned on me that I'm looking at that woman like that woman's rejecting me instead of going the rest of the room, rest of the room. Loves me at one time after a show, I came out and the guy that was dead staring me the whole time and his wife walked up and told me how much they enjoyed the show. And I'm looking at this guy, I'm like, do are, do you have facial paralysis? What? You, you had a great way of, uh, but he was like, oh no, it's great. And we ended up talking to the guy for like 15, 20 minutes. The guy just, that's just how he, he reacted. I personally, in Pat McCool's head looked at this guy, made a deduction, made a decision, and decided what was going on. This dude don't like me and it's buggy.
Rich:Yeah. Yeah. He
Pat:don't like.
Rich:Yeah. What, what difference
Pat:does, didn't make.
Rich:What a meaning to a sign to something. And it's not even true. You know, I remember being, I was speaking at an event, like a recovery event, and a friend of mine came to join the meeting and, um, I, I just, I just remember this as we sat here, right. And what he did, just as I was about to start talking, he tapped his watch. From the audience. Right. And I remember I was furious, right? Like, I was like, what? You know what, like, don't talk for too long. Like things that you are running late. Like what, what the, what on earth are you saying? He put a
Pat:time
Rich:limit
Pat:on you.
Rich:Yeah. Like what? And um, and actually when I spoke to him, what he, what he was trying to communicate was me, was like, I'm gonna have to go in a minute. I'm sorry if I won't be able to stay for the whole thing. You know?
Pat:He was trying to tell you he had run out of time.
Rich:Yeah, he, he was trying. Yeah, he didn't want me just to see him leave, you know, like, and then, you know, of course wonder what, you know what like why that was. He was trying what? He was trying to let me know something really different. But yeah, funny what we make things mean Pat, isn't it? But look, great, great conversation man. Really nice to talk through this stuff.
Pat:Certainly is, and I think one of the things that I, I, I think one of the conclusions, couple of conclusions that we hope our listeners can take from this is one, so much of this anger and everything that we have in our mind, it's something we can control. It's not important. Uh, we, we di differentiated between the righteous anger, the real anger. The fear flight, that type of thing. Something you need to deal with. But the most do. I think what drags joy out of our lives, is anger. That's just what you just said. You're sitting there getting angry because you assume that person just looked up at Richard and said, Hey bud, certain amount of time because we don't have, you know, whatever you've gotta say is probably not that important.
Rich:Yeah.
Pat:So the, the point is we completely assume, uh, as a matter of fact, we can do a whole episode on assuming and how that. You know how that blows our life up. But I think, um. That's, that there's so much that's just in our heads that causes us to be angry. And a lot of it comes from way back with me being rejected, that person, that's all I'm thinking about. I'm being rejected by somebody. It means nothing whatsoever., And you are having the same experience and you think somebody's putting a timeframe on you. Uh, speaking of the timeframe, we're gonna, we're gonna go ahead and and wrap things up, but, um. Our listeners would just realize that this is something that you can control. It's something that you can start making a habit of.'cause when I started doing that, when I started saying to myself, wait, just, I am not going to, I just did it for my own happiness and what he said, is this gonna matter in five minutes? I think that's a good way to ask yourself that. And this guy also said, take a deep breath. Just like David said. Take a deep breath, change your focus, look at something else, picture something else in your mind that's positive, and then it will just go away. And you'd be amazed at how, how you can transform your day-to-day life and the way you react and you treat other people because you don't get angry. And a lot of times when you react angrily to somebody, they're gonna act reang angrily back to you. We discuss that, you know, when it comes to when it. Comes to relationships and, um. Just one, one Bible verse here that I saw James one. 19, 20 know this, my beloved brothers let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger. For the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God. And when you focus on the righteousness of God and the love of Jesus and the fruit of the spirit, you can live a lot more positive. Happy, joy filled life, and that's what we're trying to accomplish here. So you have any final thoughts there? Rich?
Rich:You said it all, pat, man, you said it all. Yeah, I'm, uh, it's just really nice to be able to talk this through and I really, you know, like you said, I really hope that, um, I really hope that this helps some people. You know, I really hope this helps some people to not, you know, label, um, all anger as like problematic or you know, of the enemy. Um, so I think that's, um. Differentiate. Yeah. Sad. You know, it hurts people. Yeah. It can lead to people like, like just stuffing more stuff inside and that's not what I'm pretty confident Jesus. That's not what Jesus would've wanted, you know? That is not,
Pat:like you said, the, the fruit. Spirit, so well, great to see you rich. We will see you next week. Hope you're off to a great 2026 and all of our listeners are, and we are going to try to have more, topics that can help transform you, help you have a more joyful 2026. And I will see you next week and we will see all of you else, uh, out there in a week. And God bless everybody out there. And you too rich.
Rich:You too Pat. Bye everybody.
