Ep 25: You Can Choose Your Attitude

Richard and Pat discuss the physiological, mental and emotional effects that a positive or negative attitude has on us. How making choices on what we focus on can dramatically improve our lives.   

Transcript

Pat: 0:21

Today and welcome to the two Unlikely Christians podcast. I'm comedian Pat McCool, coming from the frigid Piney Woods of South Mississippi and now across the Atlantic Ocean to London, England, where we find esteemed psychotherapist and addiction specialist Richard Turrell. How you doing Rich?

Rich: 0:41

That's me. Um, let me just make sure my self views on. That's me, Patrick? Uh, yes. I feel like I should have like hand applause, you know when you introduced me. Yeah. Um, I'm alright, pat. Yeah, I'm uh, it's kind of frigid here. Yeah, it's been very cold. Um, okay. Yeah. Busy, productive, full of the spirit. Um, I'm alright man. How about you? How's, how's things in Mrs. Up, Pete?

Pat: 1:12

Since you ask, I'll actually tell you the truth. I'm not one that, you know, you go out in public and you ask people how they're doing. Like, I run into people I went to school with and I ask'em how they're doing and they mistakenly think I actually care.

Rich: 1:27

Yes.

Pat: 1:27

And they start, yeah,

1:28

that

Pat: 1:28

happens. And they start telling me, well, my knee's gone out and I gotta go back in for surgery because of my diabetes, and I gotta lose. And, and I'm just, you know, so I 15 minutes of this depression and, uh, I'm like, you know, I really, uh, didn't care, but since you ask, I'm gonna answer. Because it plays imperfectly to our topic of today. So my week, you remember the kitten? We re rescued Cato. So

Rich: 1:56

yeah, you do so many hero with cats, pat, it's hard to keep up sometimes.

Pat: 1:59

Do a lot of hero cats. All right, so we rescue about six months ago, Cato, and we call him Cato because he's like the Cato off of the Peter Sellers movie where he's always attacking people. So we're out about six months ago, walking the dogs. The dog, Molly, which by the way, you have a dog named Molly too, because great minds named their dogs the same thing apparently. And I stop, I, we hear the noise, I walk up the edge of the wood, the cat walks out, looks at me, the scrawny cat's about maybe 6, 7, 8 weeks old, could tell the cat's hungry, been living outside. The cat looks up at me and thinks, you are my only hope. You gotta rescue me. I'm thinking, you know, that would be great. Except I got five more at the house and two rescue dogs. We don't really have a lot of room for somebody else. Uh, and then he gives me, well, you're my only hope, what you're going to do, bro. And I pick the cat up, and then Cato comes in and starts taking over the place. So everything's cool with Cato. Until he hits about six months old. So when they do that, they start hitting puberty. So when they start hitting puberty, they get aggressive. They start cater walling. If you hadn't had'em, uh, neutered and if you don't want a cat cater walling, it sounds like something off Jurassic. Park. I mean, it's just around the clock. So he starts getting aggressive. We're not sleeping. He ends up starting to attack another cat.'cause the cat thinks the cat hits his back. Anyway, chaos happens at the same time. One of the other cats that we had rescued, uh, this one was a female that we hadn't got fixed. She very timely goes into heat. She starts cata walling. Now they're scrapping going on all over the house. None of us are sleeping. Uh,'cause this is going on all night long. I separate a fight and end up. I pinch the sciatica in my lower back. I don't know if you've ever had sciatica, but I have it and I can work it out. It's not a big thing, but then I'm in pain at the same time. Uh, I have a bout of diverticulitis going on. If you don't know what that is, I'm not gonna go into it. But it's a disease of the lower intestine. It's not life threatening. It's just something I've been dealing with for 20 plus years. Our listeners that haven't know what it is, order some antibiotics for that. That's supposed to be here on Monday. But we have a ice storm came through the south, right through Jacksonville, Florida, right where my medicine was coming out of. So it won't be here till tomorrow. We schedule Cato to get him fixed, but we can't get Cato in till tomorrow. So for the last two or three days, I've been on a clear. Liquid diet not slept. I got all kinds of brawling going on and it's freezing cold outside, and we just found out we got a winter storm moving this way so we could have ice coming in by the weekend. And ice in the pine belt doesn't work like ice in London, Richard, because we have all the pine trees. You could have power outages and all of those things. So other than that. I am doing fantastic.

Rich: 4:53

That was crazy, man. Honestly. Like, that was like, that was like a, like an action movie that was like two hours, like, and d you know, be Cliff at the end. Will there be the, well, actually Patrick now you mentioned it. I do, I, I do have something to share animal related, so my dog, as you mentioned, called Casper. Sometimes he sits in this room with me when I'm seeing clients on, on Zoom, right? And, and that's often fine. And very occasionally it's not so fine. And today was one of the, the latter not so fine. So I'm, you know, working with a gentleman and, um. You know, as you know, part of my practice, I work with quite high-end people and um, so, you know, it's like a professional setup, right? And then the dog starts going mad at the door. So I thought ever, so sorry, can give me one second. I'm just gonna let the dog out, right? Thank you're

Pat: 5:48

like me. You don't let people see you on here for, you know, for, for the low rent guy. You know what I mean? Like, I'm, I'm the guy at the house that I'm wearing the holy shirts if I can. I'm not talking about spiritual. You can't get away with that people.

Rich: 6:02

So thankfully the guys I kick, I kick Casper out, right? Anyway, I finished the session and I'm going around the house and I'm looking for Casper. Right? And, um, and I can't find him anywhere. And I think, well, that's odd'cause he, he can't operate the front or back door on, on his own. Um, so he must be here somewhere. So, and then I realized that the door to my wife's office is, is slammed shut. So I'm like, has he got himself locked in there somehow? So I went in there and as you know, I'm just opening up this bag. So, as you know, um. My wife, as we've discussed, she likes stuff, you know, a lot of stuff. She has a lot of memories and treasures Yeah. That she's collected over the years. One of them was a, uh, was like a, a kind of Barbie angel that her mother gave her. Right. And this is now the Barbie angel. So the Barbie angel has been, um, reduced really to. To taters, right? So small, small crumbs. So if anyone's watching on YouTube, you'll see the crumbs. If you're not, take it from me. The angel is no more. Right? And um, and then I'm left with a conundrum, Patrick, right? So Shereen has many treasures. She forgets that she's got some of them. Yeah. So I'm like, do I tell her? Right, do I tell her that the dog's eating this or do I do, I kind of bet on if she doesn't sit again, she'll probably, she, she, she may very well not remember that it existed in the first place, right? So I backed it up into this bag and I hid it. I hid it in my office. Yeah, but then the conscience, you know, the Holy Spirit is like, you know, like trying to live the right way. It's like, well you need to tell your wife that the dog destroyed the angel. So that is why I'm a few minutes late getting onto this call.'cause I just broke the news that the angel. Very sadly, there's no more. And thankfully, uh, whilst she was annoyed with the dog, she's, that hasn't extended to me in this instance. So all is well. But yeah, that was, it was a, it was a turbulent day. I mean, granted, it wasn't on the same kind of level as the, you know, what, what you are experiencing. Uh, but, you know, it's, it's not been no, no idea not been playing sailing this endiva pat, you know. It,

Pat: 8:31

it is these heirlooms. Yeah. If I could show you the stuff around my house that animals have destroyed, that my mama gave me. That, that I hear from my wife. My mama gave me this, my grandmother, my granny is the only one I had. You know, this quilt, there's a Ivan over there just chewing it up. So as you were telling me that, you know, I get free therapy outta you and I try to return the favor by using the wisdom of my 35 years of marriage. Uh, in, in return, as you were telling me that I had nothing. I, I just, I had no advice to give him. I'm like, I don't know, man. I'm really attempted to leave that bag in that drawer until the day comes when Reen says, have you seen the angel? Because you're thinking it might got, but you did the right thing and it worked out.

Rich: 9:15

Yeah. Because at that point you've just got, like, you're either all in. If she asked like, you got you all in? Yeah. Like, are you gonna, you just lie,

Pat: 9:25

right?

Rich: 9:26

Am I just gonna, well, at the minute, at the moment, it's a lie, but it's not now. But it was a lie by omission. Right? But then at that point, the point where the ask comes, you've only got two ways to go. You are even gonna lie, or you're gonna have to own it. But if at that point, if you own it. Then it's like, well, why didn't you tell me sooner? And why are this, why is this shredded? Angel bagged up and hidden in a drawer at the back of a drawer in your office? And it's like, so yeah, honesty was the best policy man. So

Pat: 9:56

you've given a great lesson, uh, uh, to us and our listeners, uh, and it kind of leans into what we're saying because now that you think about it, once she did ask about it, you weren't gonna lie. We, we've established if lying does not work out in life, so you would've had to do the full meal culper, you'd have been in trouble for not telling her. Amen. So obviously was the best policy and something else you discovered being newly married. A again, you found out something about your wife. She chose the best attitude because the way she responded to you. So you had to be a little warm in your heart when you looked at her and see I was this gonna go down. She didn't turn it on you.

Rich: 10:35

Yeah. No, it was good. I mean, you're right. It's a valuable lesson. Thanks for tuning in everybody. Let See you next week.

Pat: 10:42

Yeah, right. You see? Alright, tell the truth. Look up. Hope it goes well for you. That's. Yeah, that's where you think we're done here. Kids. I think we've come, we've all learned something today, uh, which I, ironically does come into the today's topic, which is choose your attitude and you can't choose your attitude, which the lovely Shireen did. She chose how she could respond. And what I did this morning when I, I got up. I say I, I didn't wake up because I, to wake up you have to have been to sleep. So I didn't, I just rolled outta the bed and I was not feeling good. I'm just, I'm, and I'm kind of grumping, oh God, this is crazy. January always seems to blow around here and, uh. I walk in and I start drinking my morning, uh, shake while I'm sitting there and I just kind of started laughing. I started thinking to myself like, well, thank God I can get Cato, uh, you know, even though I got a away today. Thank God I got the antibiotics coming. Thank God I got Cato on the way to the vet. Tomorrow and I'm able to handle all this.'cause there were times when I wasn't able to, all of a sudden I developed a grateful attitude. I start, I wasn't going, thank you Lord. Thank you, Jesus. But I started thinking that, and then my wife says something in the background, the next thing you know, we're laughing and joking about all the chaos it goes around and it, my whole attitude completely changed and it turns out. You can choose your attitude, and there's a physiological change that it makes. What I'm starting to discover with some of the stuff we're looking at is scripture and the things that God tell us to do is not just because of the way he wants us to behave and deal with other people, but how it affect affects us. Physiologically. So I have a little article I wanna read, uh, and a quick recap on last week we did the anger. If anybody hasn't listened to that, if you'll go back on the destruct destructive, uh, effects of anger. I'm gonna do a just a real quick, uh, one of the things we discussed without getting back into it is anger actually dulls your thinking. And we're talking about the physiological effects of it, actually, adu. Your thinking makes your brain small and inflexible, pulls blood and glucose outta your thinking, uh, brain dumps it into your survival Circuitry, shrinks prefrontal cortex, prefrontal cortex, hippocampus, which means fewer brain cells, smaller brain, reduced iq, chronic aggression, trains your, um, to, to put your thinking into a constant threat scenario. And it also lowers your sensitivity to dopamine. So the, the point was. Anger. And when you, when you don't deal with it properly, when you let yourself walk around a state of anger, irritation all the times, it makes you, uh, it lowers your iq. It takes away your opportunity for joy. It, there's so many destructive things involved and I actually put that to effect. Last week because we're trying to do some transformational things this year, not just with our listeners, but with ourself. I, I started with a day, I went into town and I had, um, I had some phone appointments and people were gonna call. I'm doing some business on some shows, getting things settled in the travel and arrangements and that type of thing. To me, that's a pretty big, pretty big deal. But I had to go into town, you know, I'm 35 minutes into town and I go in and right about the time I'm supposed to get that call. Verizon has a massive. Uh, service outage in the United States. Did that hit England by any chance?

Rich: 14:03

We don't have Verizon, man, so No, we don't. Oh, interestingly, our mobile network's always been a bit more advanced than yours for, I used to work in that industry, but anyway, that's quite long and boring to almost everyone, so I won't get into that. But we don't have Verizon and our, our mobile network tends to be. Pretty a hundred percent reliable.

Pat: 14:24

I didn't know that. Well, we have Verizon. I think it's the most expensive, but I had to get it when I was up in, uh, when I was up in New York. I had a change to it, but they've always been reliable. I've never ever had this happen, but this was happening nationwide. You couldn't make a phone call. You just couldn't, you couldn't get a phone call. So I start off there. I'm irritated by that. A couple of other things happened that was starting to irritate me in the past. You know, I would start to get a little, you know, angry. Bad move. Things kind of start happening. I come home, I get a bill that, that I've been waiting on a gas bill that just came in and it came in a day after they said that the. If you pay it after this date, you've gotta pay a late fee. The late fee was only$3. Didn't make any difference. You starting to irritate me. I'm like, I don't pay my bills late. I pay'em on time and you've sent it to me. And, uh, so I called the girl. The point was, I told myself all these little things were happening. I kept telling myself, wait, you know, my acronym that I told you, just wait. What am I. Thinking, what am I in trouble about? I kept thinking, this isn't that big a deal. I can work this out. If God wants these shows to work out, he gave'em to'em. It's all going to work out, which they did called The Woman, I had a Speech Ready. I'm not one of these guys that takes things out on the clerk. You know when you're going in the store or you're dealing with somebody on customer service and they're giving you news you don't want, but they're just doing their job. I'm not the guy that tees off on'em. But I did have a speech of, you know, last year you guys did the same thing. I didn't get. The bill, but when I called up, I said, okay, I need to pay my bill thinking she's gonna tell me. The amount and it's gonna be$3 extra and then I'm gonna give her my speech. Well, she gave me the bill without the$3 extra. I paid what I was supposed to pay and went on with my happiness. But my point was I was actually putting it into practice and I didn't let that anger and that stuff that that irritation or whatever. That just builds up. And, and I did do a little more reading on anger. I do.'cause we were talking about the, the causes of the anger and we were talking about, you know, is it, you know, things in our lives. Is it saying you're saying no, you can't put everything on the enemy trying to make you Yeah. I, I think it was a good episode where people listen to one thing. I did notice frustration, uh, builds up and can lead to anger. But that's a whole different. Different, uh, you know, that's back to our last episode point we're getting at is you can choose your attitude, which I did this morning. Uh, Shereen did, when you handed her the bag, you were probably, I could just say the look on your face when you handed to

Rich: 17:00

Yeah. Yeah. Like a little boy mean about nine years

Pat: 17:05

old. Yeah. Lemme see how this, how this is gonna happen. But, so I did some research on choosing your attitude because it plays into anger. You can choose whether you're gonna let anger built up, There are things you can do that we talked about that you can help, lower all that. Because if you see all those destructive effects of anger, well choosing your attitude is the same thing. So I'm gonna read again. If you'll just bear with me. Um, it says a feel good, attitude generates. Generates from neurons in our brain, surprisingly, just like there's physiological differences, I mean, uh, uh, effects inside of us that are causing these. It's not just, oh, let, just don't worry. Be happy. To understand the effect positive and negative feelings have on our mindset. We need to know how our brain functions. Our brain controls our emotions and the amygdala. Did I get that right?

Rich: 18:01

Amygdala? Yep.

Pat: 18:02

It's a big word there. See, rich, I'm growing by listening to you that would've been Amy g. That would've been Amy G dollar before. Yeah. Right, right. Well, people in the south have a bad way of, of, uh, of just butchering words, thinking we're sounding sophisticated. So I make, I try to make an effort at it, uh, anyway, in the, um, amygdala. The amygdala regulates and responds to positive emotions like joy or negative emotions like anxiety or depression. Positive thinking changes the chemistry of the brain affecting genetic markers and can change brain cells. Similar to our episode on anger, the change of genetic traits as a catalyst for our wellbeing and future generations positive thinking also is associated with an increase in sales that boost. Your immune system, essentially, positive energy is a soldier that protects your mind and body from harmful influences. Healthy emotions create a buffer and can suppress negative emotions such as depression or post-traumatic stress disorder. And let me keep re reading, uh, our Brain's chemistry affects how we feel. We noticed that when we were, you were researching in the course or what you were talking about with your, uh, with David. I can't remember the, the fellow's name. Cortisol decreases when we think happy thoughts or feel joy, and the brain creates serotonin in response to our positive emotions. When serotonin levels are normal, one feels happy, calm, less anxious, more focused, and emotionally stable. Positive emotions impact the brain's prefrontal cortex. Again, impacted by anger located in the front of the brain. When the prefrontal cortex is activated, there is an increase in activity in zeal. The increase in positivity establishes heightened mental reactions, such as creative thinking, intellectual adaptability, and increase in the brain's capacity. The process information, our attention span has increased and we think in terms of we, instead of me. Prefrontal cortex is essential in mind, body connection. All of our brain functions come together in the prefrontal cortex, and then are spread out to the body. Think of the, okay, well, we've read enough there. You see. Where we're going with that. Yeah. All of these positive emotions have this, it have a physical effect on our, not just our outlook, but on our brain, and the whole physio, even on our immune system. So, go ahead, what you were about to say.

Rich: 20:38

Yeah, no, that's great Pat. Thanks for bringing that and, um, it's so, I mean, it's interesting, isn't it?'cause I was thinking. Because it works both ways, right? It's like the serotonin, the dopamine, the oxytocin, the cortisol, all of those things also impact our mood. Yeah. So important to say. I think if, you know, if you're listening and you are like clinically depressed, right? Then you. You know, like it's not just an attitude shift that is gonna change that, you know, you're probably gonna need to see a doctor and, and you know, maybe try some medication and you know, so on and so forth. Right. Like, um, and, and I think that's important to say. Yeah.'cause Yes. You know, and lots of people, I mean, you know, sometimes there can be a resistance to doing that, you know, be that. Whatever it might be. You know, some, sometimes people have a resistance to doing that, but I believe sometimes that's what needs to happen. But yes, in the normal run of things, I think that we can choose our attitudes and it may not. Feel like we can, you know, like it may not feel like we can, you know, we might tell ourselves that we can't and, and sometimes it might be much harder for some than others to do that. Yeah. Again, important to make that that point. But yeah, I mean, there's definitely things we can do to foster those kind of positive attitudes. One of the things. Um, so in 12 step recovery, one of the things that I've, you know, I've done for periods of time, particularly when my attitude has drifted towards the negative, which can happen, pat hard to believe, I know, um, is a gratitude list. So that is where you, you know, you would spend some time each day writing down the things that you have to be grateful for and not foster that sense, you know, a sense of gratitude and contentment in one's own life, you know? And I think that's a really good example of how you can, you can choose, you know, you can put some actions in to choose your mood, you know, um, and to like, to mod using that sort of technical term, modulate one's own effective state. So change one's own emotional state, basically change your mood, you know, and there's lots of different ways we can do that. So, yeah, and that, you know, like the way that we can then affect. I guess just sort of picking up on different points that you've made there, right? It's like, you know, like dopamine, serotonin, cortisol, all those neurotransmitters, right? Like there are things we can do to, to stimulate those, you know, to stimulate ones that we, that will be helpful for us. You know, there are definitely things that we can do, you know? Um, so yeah, absolutely, man. Absolutely.

Pat: 23:19

And there is people when you're dealing with depression and things like that. That's a, that is a different deal. I personally think, and I was talking to a doctor not long ago and he was talking about, he said, yeah, I believe in God healing. Said, but a lot of times what they do, he said, in my case, I had a situation where it was a crazy thing that led me, I'm a physician, led me to another physician that ended up getting this treatment that I needed for a very severe problem that I had. So the, um. The medical community and certainly what you do because you can't just sit there and like I said, you can't just say, don't worry, be happy. Mm-hmm. But in the cases that you can, as I did this morning, that all may not have sounded all that drastic to people that are out there maybe dealing with real problems. But to me it was kind of running me over a little bit. Uh. But you can start choosing your attitude on a day-to-day basis. My attitude last week when the Verizon went down and I couldn't, ma there's little ways of going out. And you said gratitude, which is, I've got a little list here, uh, spiritually that we'll get to in a minute. That makes a huge, well,'cause what did I, what did I do this morning? When I started thinking of all this, I first started thinking, well, thank God. And I wasn't even trying, I was like, well, thank God I can get her in there and pay the, you know, animals don't, aren't cheap. I'm like, well, thank God I can get her in there and get this taken care of. And thank God I got this guy and the, and the gas guy just came and put gas in my heater for when this storm comes up. And I started thinking back to times I wasn't able, that I was in a bit of a struggle and then I just started thinking. Uh, with gratitude. Yeah. And that did kind, kind of change my mood. Um, the thing on the negative feelings that's decreases the spr, the speed of our brain processes, it decreases the solutions. Finding solutions become difficult, creative thinkings, impaired activity, and the, uh. Cerebellum. Got it. Is decreased. Positive feelings are impaired and mood, memory, impulse controls are affected. So you see all of these physiological things that are happening and, well, one thing, lemme just page down here. The power of positivity, transforming your mind and wellbeing so you can, so we're, we're certainly not saying, that's why what Richard has to say is so important.'cause Richard deals with this on a therapeutic basis. It's not just get up and hey, just have a positive mental attitude. You deal with people with severe depression and I've talked with people in depression and I can't say I know how you feel'cause I've never, all of my. Depression was, was induced by my activities and my circumstances. But there are people that just that kind of deal with it. And, and you, and a lot of times people can't just put all this in their head. They need, you know, they, they've got to have, you know, it's like you and my friend, uh, Dr. Beverly Smallwood. Uh, or just incredibly vital of constant, you know, of being there to remind people and show them how to negotiate, you know, show them how to negotiate these things. But there are things that you can do, and I'm going to just finish the article by the power of positivity. There was an article called The Power, power of Positive Thinking by a guy named Norman Vincent Peele years ago. You don't remember that, right? Norman Vincent Peele. Anyway, it was about, it was called Think and Go Rich. So you know you're supposed to, you think all these positive things and help you. You know, and everything in life, like finance, well some of it's a little bit of a reach, but, there was so much in there about having a positive mindset and about how you react.'cause the benefits of positive thinking are numerous. We find happiness in our lives, those around us. When we engage in positivity, positive or negative emotions can affect our brain chemistry and action, which we just talked about. It can lead to enhanced creativity, staying focused, overall mental productivity. Um, actually we've already covered all this, but people who inherit ways of thinking can struggle with depression and anxiety. Do you notice in your practice that, that they said people can inherit this, it, it can actually be genetic depression. What is

Rich: 27:23

this idea now of something called epigenetics, which are, it's not something I know. You know, a huge amount of bowel, but what I, as I understand it, is that actually on the edges of our genetic coding, we have these, these tiny hairs, which impact the way that we develop, you know, like the way that we, we grow, like the way our, our brain is, is wired up, right? And other things as well when we're talking about the brain predominantly. And those hairs can actually change generation to generation. So, you know, a significant kind of trauma or you know, some kind of adversity. And one generation can, can literally be like handed down to the next and that will of course affect like someone's mental health. Then there's also the more psychological, uh, psychodynamic. Take on that, which is like, say, you know, my mother was very, my mother was very depressed, right? Um, she had a lot of problems. She did her best. You know, we spoke about some of that stuff. But, um, you know, early on, back in the episodes, um, you know, right at the beginning when we told our stories, pat, but so she was very depressed. She wasn't. Particularly able to be present. And she wasn't particularly able to be consistent as a caregiver when I was like, you know, an inf an infant, a baby in arms, right? And the way that, um, a baby's brain grows, um, which is by far the fastest growing organ in a baby. Like the brain actually still has a lot of growing to do, but it has to stop growing quite early.'cause otherwise the baby literally wouldn't be able to make its way out of the mother. Yeah.'cause it's the head is what makes the birthing process so difficult. So there's a whole bit of evolutionary history to that. Which, um, again, I won't get into, there's a very good book called Sapiens. I can't remember who it's by, but it talks about some of that stuff. It's fascinating. But anyway, so the brain has a lot of growing to do. And then if the, if the caregiver can't be present for lots of different reasons, you know, like isn't really able to kind of mirror. The babies like emotions, like take care of them, respond to them, give them that kind of positive, nurturing, warm experience, or at least not be able to do that, like consistently. Um, then the baby's brain will organize itself in such a way that will it potentially have some really like difficult, um. Set up some really difficult patterns, you know, so that, and you see that a lot in addiction when you trace addiction back and you look at like parent, the, you know, what was going on for the parents. Like, quite often you'll find out there might be something like, you know, it happens more often than you might think. There might be something like, uh, the mother lost her parent, like on, you know. You know, say like, not long before or not long after the child was born. And so because there, there's that grief like in the field. Like in the relational field, then that impacts the child. And that child might well be like prone to like depression or anxiety or you know, so on and so forth. So anyway, that's quite a long answer Pat. But like, yes, that stuff definitely can get handed down through the generations and you can slice that up lots of different ways as to why that happens. But yeah, it can really get handed down through the generations for sure. Um, yeah.

Pat: 30:47

Into clinical depression or just the habit? Just the habit of being, of adopting a bad attitude on a regular basis.

Rich: 30:54

Yeah. Like for, for short. And like sometimes, you know, like, uh, often depression is linked to a real, uh, shortfall in potentially serotonin, potentially dopamine. And that's why the, the, the, the pharmaceutical drugs that you get for that, like you've got. Some that target serotonin levels, some that target dopamine levels. They have particular mechanisms for how they do that, but like it's designed to correct that chemical imbalance. But there are definitely behavioral ways, you know, so behaviors, you know, and um. Like nutrition's a big thing now as well, you know, looking at, are you giving the brain enough to help it generate enough of those neurotransmitters? You know, obviously we live in an age of like ultra processed foods and you know, all that stuff, and that stuff really doesn't give the brain what it needs. So there's, there's lots that can be done to help foster a good. We

Pat: 31:52

discussed that in an episode, on the episode on, uh, the effects of nutrition on addiction. Yeah. And again, what I'm trying, what I try to do is what we talk about is learn from it. Myself and I did start change'cause you were saying, well, what you're doing, what you're eating. And I told you whatever it was I was eating by 11 or 12 o'clock, you said, that turns into this and you're gonna hit this cra. And I was, and it was affecting the way I felt. And, nutrition does have a big, and your attitude, if you're not getting enough protein, you're not getting enough nutri, you know, nutrition in your body, you're gonna kind of get into a bad mood. But what we're discovering, like we did in the thing you were looking at on anger in our last episode. And things like having a, a, an a attitude of gratitude is it has all these physiological damage that it does and then it also has all these positive things if you learn.'cause there are things, those that have the clinical de. Depression and have the depression, they are needing help. But a lot of us, like me, I can just, I always look at back at myself and, you know, why did I have a bad attitude about that? But the average person can dramatically improve their lives by doing the things we're talking about, like we talked about on anger, not letting it get to you, like I didn't last week. Getting a, just trying to keep, a good attitude and we'll wrap it up by the fact that you can tie it, everything gets tied back into spirituality. Yeah. We're not saying, Hey, just open your Bible and just pray to Jesus and everything is gonna be fine. Because what I'm starting to see here, Richard is. You what? When God's telling us, like in back,, in the episode we did on anger. When he is telling us how he wants us to comport ourselves and how he wants us, we are thinking that this is what he wants us to do because that's how he wants us to treat each other and in our relationships. Well, isn't it surprising that the actions that he's, that he's constantly telling us in scripture actually has all of these physiological effects on us?

Rich: 33:53

Yeah, I'm

Pat: 33:54

just, and actually can hurt our health. In other words, he's trying to help it's helping us in every aspect of life, not just how so? It, it also has a physical impact. What, so he's telling us how to live and we ought to get ourselves more in line with the word of God and listen. So I've got a few scriptures I'm gonna run through before, before we get outta here. Go ahead. Go, go right ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. I thought you, I thought you were getting an important, I was trying to interrupt.

Rich: 34:19

No, no, no, no. Just looking at subscription man. Um,

Pat: 34:21

people dunno, when Richard starts looking at his phone, he might have somebody that needs to talk to him because he does talk to people that are going through some struggles. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Rich: 34:30

That's quite all right, man. Um. So we destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach'em to obey Christ. And that's two Corinthians 10. And, um, you know, that idea of like capturing thoughts and making'em obedient to God, you know, like there's a great pastor friend of mine, Raymond Ramos from Brooklyn, New York, and, um, you know, he, I heard him preach on this man, and, and he was saying, it's like you recognize the thought, but then you, you know, you, you, you spot it and then you. Change it. You know, you recognize that. Is this thought obedient to God? Is it, you know, obedient to like Christian principles, essentially making a decision. It's quite a like spiritual, cognitive, behavioral therapy. Am I gonna allow this thought to be what it is? Is it obedient to God? Is it spiritually principled? If not, I'm gonna reframe it and I'm gonna use that as the way that I approach this person, place thing. Situation. So like, and that I think is a really nice example actually of what you're talking about. Like, we can choose our attitudes. We, you know, outlined some exceptions. If you're struggling greatly with, you know, mental health and, you know, we, we, you know, as Pat has has said beautifully, we're definitely not saying don't worry, just be happy. But we do have choice about how we respond to our thoughts. A lot of the time and probably more than what we recognize. You know, I, I, I got a little story actually, pat, just to kind of, um, keep on it for another minute or two, but this, this popped into my mind while we were talking and, um, I. It, it, this to me, really always really highlights the amount of choice that we have, even though we may not think that we have choice in how we think about things. So I, I met a guy once and he, he was a gambling addict for many years, right. And he, you know, he's gambling horrible addiction, right? Um, and he'd lost kind of everything. Know that the wife, the house has gone, you know, everything's gone. Right. Mad gambler. And then someone that knew his situation bumped into him. Yeah. In a casino at two o'clock in the morning and he said to this guy, what are you doing here? And the guy realized he didn't have an answer. Yeah. What am I doing here? He never, he never put, he never put another bet on, never gambled again in his life because it just changed that thought. You know? It just challenged the way he was thinking and he realized he didn't have an answer and he was able to make a choice, and he had what he refers to as a spontaneous recovery. And that for me is a great example of how we may actually have much more choice about how we think and respond and behave than we ever actually realized. So I just thought I'd share that.

Pat: 37:21

That's excellent. That's it. He just turned around and asked himself because when the guy asked him, he had to ask himself that question.

Rich: 37:30

Yeah,

Pat: 37:30

kinda like I, yeah, kinda like I started doing with weight. I, you know, like I was just using an acronym. I was just saying, why, what am I thinking? And then I had to start and ask myself, what am I thinking? Uh, you're thinking that you're all upset about something That's silly. It's not gonna make any difference. Whatsoever. And that sounds like that's kind of what happened to that guy. So you can make a difference. And with us, as followers of Jesus, there's always, uh, I had compiled, you mentioned gratitude was the first thing you said, which was ironic because that's kind of what I had, was kind of a GHT, gratitude, hope, and trust. If you live listening to the word of God. It makes a lot of difference. Now, so much happens in our lives. You're not just walking around with a Bible and going, oh, God's just, gonna take care of everything. But you can actively stop and look. He's given us these instructions. He's given us the Bible, and it's starting to appear to me that a lot of scripture, as I said a minute ago. It isn't just about where we're supposed to deal with other people, it affects us and affects our health. And just a few to wrap up on, with gratitude. If you just think about these things, God is telling us, Thessalonians five 18, give thanks in all circumstances for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. And that's just, uh. In every situation, you just stop and think. That's kind of what I started doing this morning. Psalm 104, enter his gates with Thanksgiving and his courts with praise. Give thanks to him and praise his name. Ephesians five 20. Always giving thanks to God the father, for everything in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. What's happened is he's telling us in the Bible, it's telling us to do this. Not just, it doesn't just have an effect we're'cause. We're always thinking, how do I gain favor with God? How do I keep my relationship going? But these things actually affect us physiologically. And determine how we live and even determine our health. Uh, the second is hope.'cause if you think about it, if, if you live a life of gratitude, you're thankful for what you have, but you also need hope. If you're struggling, you need hope that'cause a lot of people go through tough situations. I think most of us. There are more scripture on hope through the Bible that you know, we, we'd be here all day. But Jeremiah 29 11 for I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil. To give you a future and a hope. Romans 1513.

Rich: 39:58

I'm just smiling. I'm smiling as you read that one, pat. I've got that pinned to my notice board. My wife and I. My wife and I bought these. I'm sure you can get similar things in the states. Uh,

Pat: 40:08

alright,

Rich: 40:09

this biblical affirmation deck. Is, yeah, I

Pat: 40:12

don't have that.

Rich: 40:13

This is, have you got something like that? I

Pat: 40:16

don't,

Rich: 40:16

oh, I, I, I'd say I'd send it to you, but I'm still waiting for, um, all the things you promised to send me. But

Pat: 40:22

you still waiting for the, for the marriage and the, and the Christmas gift? We're wrapping

Rich: 40:26

it. Yeah. But you pull, you pull a card out each day and it, it, it gives you, you know, like a bit of scripture and. I, I was having, I think I was struggling a little bit and there was some anxiety and a little bit of uncertainty around some, you know, some of the, you know, my kind of business stuff. And, um, and all of the cards in here were white. Then, and we've had a few of these decks. We've done some kind of evangelism stuff with them, uh, without going into all of that. And, um, they're all white. And then we were going through this one deck and it had a gray card in it, and we'd never come across one of these in order decks that we'd open. And it's that verse for, and in the translation that they use. It is for, I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord. Plans to prosper you and not to harm you. Plans to give you hope and a future during I 29 11. So just make me smile when you're reading that one, pat.

Pat: 41:25

He tells us all throughout the Bible, have hope. He has us in, in his hands. So when you live with gratitude and hope, it's easy. And the, the very third one, uh, before we wrap up is see if I can find this trust. Think about it. If you're living in gratitude, you're living in hope and trusting because a lot of times we get a bad attitude, uh, because we're thinking of bad outcomes. But if we're trusting in the Lord, Proverbs 35, uh, three, five, is trusting the Lord with all thine heart and lean not under thine own understanding, and all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths. So. If we bring ourselves in line with the word of God, it will really help us with our attitude, with our anger. And it turns out I, I'm, it's starting to, I, I know I'm repeating myself, but. If you start looking at the scripture in the Bible that tells us how to act, I always thought of it as two ways. How he wants us to treat and deal with other people and how he wants us, you know? In other words, you know, we, we subconsciously we do things to, to gain favor with God. I'm doing the right thing. I'm acting the right way. All of these things and these scriptures, if you're following them and paying attention to the way God wants us to live, and you're bringing your mind, your mouth, and your thinking into God's word. It has all of these other effects on our attitude, on our success in life, on our relationships, on how we feel on a day-to-day basis. And as you said earlier, it begets itself. The more you learn to control your anger. The more you learn to choose your attitude, the easier it becomes to keep choosing your attitude. Uh, any final thoughts there, rich?

Rich: 43:21

Um. Just to echo something I said really, I think we all have more choice over this than what we realize. Um, I mean, cognitive, cognitive behavioral therapy was kind of, is a whole therapy in many ways based around reshaping one's thoughts, you know, and the fact that if you

Pat: 43:39

cognitive behavioral therapy and that's, that's what you're doing a lot in your practice.

Rich: 43:43

I use bits and pieces of it. Yeah. I use bits and pieces of it. Um, but like, it, it really, it's about challenging thoughts and re re reframing them, you know, reshaping them. Yeah. Um, but through various ways that you would do that. But yeah, like we, we have more choice over this stuff than we might think. And of course, we've, God's help. You know, like, how many times have you been in, you know, a funk? And like you say, the prayer, the prayer doesn't necessarily make it. Better in, in the, in that moment. Yeah. But then you, you know, that voice of like the Holy Spirit's just a little bit louder. You know, you just got that little bit of room where you can. Kind of come up with the alternative thought. You know? Oh, the other thing I wanted to say was, um, and you sort of touched on to this a little bit, but it's like, you know, classic 12 step, you know, aa, whatever fellowship you might be in or, or might hopefully be thinking of joining. Um. It's like, just for today, man. You know? And that's not just about like, I'm just, I'm not gonna take a drink today, but it's like, all I gotta live in is today. That's it. You know what I mean? Nevermind, who knows what's gonna happen tomorrow? Could be better than me think, could be worse than me. Think, who knows? You know what I mean? But if I can stay in today, if I can make that choice to focus on today, and not to let my thoughts run away with what could happen tomorrow, next week, next year, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. It makes life a whole lot easier. That's an important choice to be able to make. You know, am I just gonna live for today?'cause the truth is none of us promised tomorrow, pat. We know that than me. So, yeah.

Pat: 45:22

That's, that's an excellent way to end it. Start today. You know, I'm big on sports analogies. Go one and, oh, just win today because I, I'm, I, I have a bad habit of looking into, alright, tomorrow I gotta do this or I gotta do that. Just get up, win today. Choose your attitude today and you can, like you said, we have a lot more control over it and God gives us a lot of ammunition. To do it because he knew Yeah, man.

Rich: 45:49

Yeah,

Pat: 45:49

he knew. He, he, he made us, he knows how we are. So he's great seeing you, rich. Uh, go back downstairs and I hope, uh, Reen is still, I hope she hasn't had a little chance to leave the bag. In the drawer. Don't bring it back downstairs and bring it, but don't go downstairs and goes, I really appreciate your attitude when I brought it down. I just kind of,

Rich: 46:10

yeah, I'll probably just leave it in now, pat. Do you what I mean? Hopefully

Pat: 46:14

move on. That's another way, choosing your attitude. Don't, don't bring a lot of grief on you. So all well, thanks for everybody listening out there. Um, and God bless you all this week. If you're in America, Canada, north America, I guess in England, it's a little cold right here. And, uh, so hopefully we just, uh, this winter we'll get over with pretty quickly. So God bless everybody. And Rich, we will talk to you next week.

Rich: 46:38

God bless everyone. Bye.