Ep: 29 Spiritual Paradoxical Undressing

Richard and Pat discuss the parallels of hypothermia victims and the phenomenon of Paradoxical Undressing, with how Christians react during stressful times. 

Transcript

Pat 0:23

And welcome to the two Unlikely Christians podcast. I'm comedian Pat McCool coming to you from the deep Piney Woods of South Mississippi and now all the way to London, England, where we find former Teen Idol, esteemed Addiction Specialist and Esteem Cycle. The and a Dixon specialist Richard Tull.

Rich 0:47

Hello Patrick. How are you doing? Good. You all hunker down. Ready for the, the Iranians to launch their counter attack?

Pat 0:56

You know, I just, one good thing about living in the middle of nowhere is I, I think, I don't think we're a target.

Rich 1:05

The

Pat 1:06

D Woods. I don't think they're, yeah, I don't think they're thinking, you know, if we take out Olo, Mississippi, uh, then we could, we could teach the Yanks a lesson. I just, I think, um, I think I'm good out here. I mean, yeah,

Rich 1:20

you're pretty safe down there, which is good. I'm glad you, I'm glad you're so, it's nice.

Pat 1:24

Not even, yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.

Rich 1:26

That's all right. I was just saying, I'm glad you're, I'm glad you're safe. You know, it's a

Pat 1:30

nice thing. I appreciate that. I, uh. Speaking of nukes, you know, as I have mentioned before, I am 3.1 miles from a formula nuclear, uh, former nuclear test site called the salmon nuclear test site. If you ever Google it, it's right down the road. That's how rural I am., They blew off, uh, blew up, uh, an atomic bomb and the fifties in an underground salt dome. And this was their thought process was, we're gonna blow this up and then we're gonna come back six months later and blow another one up and see if it has the same effect. And surprisingly it didn't. When the first one blew up all the way into town, 20 miles into town, they felt shock waves. Uh, you know, you could feel the effect, but when they blew the second one up, there was no effect at all. I see your thinking. I have no idea the meaning behind that or what they were trying to accomplish.

Rich 2:28

I just thought there was more, but what I did get from that, Patrick, was that anybody, if you get a stalker, right, as a result of which you could do, you are in the, you know, you are a man that's in the public eye, right? All they need now need to do is go onto Google Maps, look up that test site. Get a compass. Yeah. And draw a circle 3.1 miles around from the center of that test site and somewhere in that circle lives Pat McCall by a lake as well. We've got a lot of clues to work with here, pat.

Pat 3:03

That is true. But I mean they would really, uh. They'd really have it in for me. Right. I mean, I think that if I had a stalker with nukes, I mean with missiles, I've really made somebody mad,

Rich 3:18

you know, but I could track you down. Do you know what I mean? You've gotta be careful, man. Do you know what I mean? Especially with given away a lot of sensitive information on here. You've got a meth lab. Yeah. You've, you've got a still. Yeah, but you're up to some stuff there, man. Do you know what I mean? You need to keep it on the down low.

Pat 3:37

That's true. And I guess I shouldn't tell the only weapon I have access to belongs to my son-in-law. And I don't know if the safety's up or down. I've never shot it. I mean, it's here, you know what I mean? I'm figuring I'm gonna figure it out pretty fast. But I'm not really a, not really a weapons guy, so I guess I shouldn't have told that.

Rich 3:57

I've got a friend in Texas and uh, I've met his father-in-law and his father-in-law always, always carries a weapon. Right,

Pat 4:05

right.

Rich 4:05

Which for it's Texas man, so like, but for an English person, like, that's mind blowing. Do you know what I mean? So like, for your responses, like, yeah, that's Texas. Yeah. My response is like, oh my God, can I have, look at it? But my friend, um, he's really much like yourself. He's, he's got no interest in in weapons and firearms and any of that stuff, right? So, but his father-in-law, like, as a way to somehow get a gun into the house with like his daughter and her new husband bought him like a snake gun. Um, so it's like, yeah, I've got a snake gun upstairs, which I understand is like a small. Weapon you would use, I assume, to sh to shoot snakes?

Pat 4:56

Yes. I know people that, that will do that. Will, will. They have guns to shoot snakes, which I don't quite understand. I just, my way of dealing with snakes, leave them alone. Just like there's the snake. If you shoot that one snake, if you see that snake, there's others around. I mean, I'm not, they're not gonna get mad at you and come at you, but I just don't think you're really accomplishing a I I get it. Somebody sees a big eight foot rattlesnake outside their door. Um, they might want to take care of. I don't, I told you I saw a, I mean, where I live, we have'em all rattlesnakes. Cotton mouth copperheads and coral snakes are some of the most, um, poisonous snakes in the world, and they're fairly rare. Of course, I got those too. Wow. I was walking my dog last, my neighbor had told me he had seen that they were here. He'd seen one. I was a little skeptical, and then I'm walking across the driveway and I see one start. I see something slithering and they also kind of look like a different type of snake and, but there's a thing like if the yellow touches black. Yeah, yeah,

Rich 6:06

yeah, yeah. There's

Pat 6:07

an

Rich 6:07

older, yeah,

Pat 6:08

yeah. Yellow touches black smack jack. And if I, you know, whatever, all I did was. Looked at the, the colors and just started, I was like, yellow, black, red, whatever. And I went in and googled it and it was a, it was definitely a coral snake in there. It's scary to be honest with you.'cause when I walk, you walk the dogs, they, the coral snakes get under the pine straw and we're. Just covered in pine straw out here, which is why I'm a little haggard. This is spring cleaning week and I've spent two days raking up massive amounts. I mean, almost a huge truckload of pine straw. And then I have to put it in my trash can'cause I don't wanna buy a wheelbarrow and I take it out to the street from the pick up. But uh, and this is when they're on the move in spring, they come out, I've already walked out on the back porch and saw a little rat snake, which those are good snakes'cause they get rid of. Bad critters and uh, but yeah, the, uh, I guess a lot of people have a snake gun. What kind of, did he say what kind of gun it was that he used to kill snakes or

Rich 7:06

No, no, just a snake gun. Just a snake gun. I dunno what that means. Really just a gun that's used to kill snakes. Um, but you gotta understand over here, like we don't, like I've in, in my former life, like. Came across like one or two people that had guns, but they're very rare. Like, it's like criminals like that have guns. And the police in the army, like not even all our police, just a few of them. Right. A small amount. Yeah. Like our police don't carry, don't carry guns. Right. So like for, like, for me, especially in, you know, spending quite a bit of time in the states, it's like a huge novelty. So like, I'd like. You know, when I was in Mississippi, I was like, I was talking to people, I'd be like, have you got a gun? Like, do you carry a gun? Like, and I did that work at Pine Grove Hospital and, and one of the things they would do when they checked patients in was they would check their gums in. Right. Um,'cause it's psychiatric hospital. Right. And they had some Understandable.

Pat 8:07

Yeah. Yeah. They don't, any place where you're locking the people in, you know, in one of the places, like, you know, you've, you know, you know. The pine grove, you've got the inpatient, outpatient walking out the other side you can't get out of.

Rich 8:22

Yeah. So like understandably, they didn't want people to have gums, you know? But for me that's just wild. Do you know what I mean? Like what? Like, you know, gum, gum, chicks. Like you check your coat, check your bag, check your, check your gum. Do you know what I mean? It's mad anyway, like

Pat 8:37

Yeah,

Rich 8:37

yeah.

Pat 8:38

Well when you're talking about Texas, Mississippi's probably got as many guns. I mean,, we have guns in, um. You know, Mississippi. Matter of fact, I'm probably a bit of an anomaly. I just never was much, I, I'm not a hunter. I'm the guy honking, you know, Hey Bambi, there's a dude in F-150 coming over the hill. Um, but now I appreciate hunters. I've got you. You want a good, you want a hunter in the family in case everything goes to heck, you know? Yeah. You want somebody that actually knows how to go out and hunt for their meals. And matter of fact, my, um. My talking about guns. If, whenever, if you and you ever come to the states, I take you over to my son-in-law's house. The guy who loaned me has so many guns that he's loaned me one that's, that's sitting in my closet. If you look, he has an arsenal, you would think he's gonna overthrow the government. I mean, he could outfit a masad platoon. I mean, it's like machine guns. Ozzy double barreled a, a shotgun that shoots six. Yeah. I wouldn't, I, I would not wanna show up at his house late at night making any bad noises. But a lot of times people just like guns. There's gun ranges. It's not just a hurry, I'm gonna kill, you know, people like to shoot. And then,

Rich 9:51

yeah, I've done, I've done a bit of shooting when I was in Thailand. I shot at a range and I enjoyed it. It was fun. Um, when I was in Arizona, I went to, um, to tombstone. And, you know, like the western front of the air town. Yeah. Okay, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Went there and, um, and they had all these replica guns in the, in this case, and my friend I was with was like, oh, you should buy one of them and take it back to England. And I was like, I would be at customs, like for hours. You know, I, they'd have some very like, big questions to ask while I was doing this. And the guy, like the, in his kind of cowboy outfit that, you know, that was working in the store, the store clerk or whatever. He looked at me and went, that's why I'm leaving in Arizona. Yeah, fair. Fair enough. Yeah.

Pat 10:43

Not, not only would you be hung up at customs, but you would be going on multiple lists because you've spent time, you've spent time in, in Mississippi and Arizona, and now you're showing back up with a weapon. We're, you know, pretty much you're, you're, you're plotting something.

Rich 11:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd have trouble at both ends. The last time I got to American Immigration, the first question they asked me was, um. Do know what? I'm gonna leave that pat.'cause I realized to make it funny, I have to do an accent and it's not, it's not really appropriate. You know what I mean? No, go

Pat 11:20

ahead.

Rich 11:21

Go ahead. You might have to edit this out, but I can

Pat 11:23

Go ahead.

Rich 11:24

It was a Chinese American woman, right? And so I got to the cat a lot after that hours waited. JFK for hours. Like they don't give a, they don't care. Do you know what I mean? Like you're in the queue for hours, right? Like literally like an hour in this queue. I waited two, like to get to immigration. This with this Chinese American woman. Her first question, she went, why you come here? And it went downhill from there. Do you know what I mean?

Pat 11:56

You were expecting that.

Rich 11:59

Why you come here?

Pat 12:01

You, that's what she said.

Rich 12:03

Yeah. Oh this to God, why you come here? And I realized my friend, who I was gonna visit, um. I didn't,'cause I knew him from recovery circles. Right, right. I didn't know his second name. I only knew his initial, I knew he was called like Tony, like second, you know, Tony S Right. That was all I knew. So I was like, if she asks me, I'm coming to see, I'm not some guy, I don't actually know his name. He's just called Tony SI was like. I'm gonna be here for hour, like I'm getting shit back. Do you know what I mean? Like

Pat 12:40

you're not getting in.

Rich 12:42

Yeah. Before you know it,

Pat 12:44

she's, I'm coming. You're flying into New York and you're coming to see Tony?

Rich 12:48

Yeah, I'm coming to see Tony. What's his name? I dunno. He's just called Tony. Yeah,

Pat 12:52

the mob capital. Yeah, the mob capital of the country with half the guy's named Tony. You're coming to see it, Tony?

Rich 12:58

Yeah, exactly. After, before you know it, like I'm gonna be in kit mode, you know what I mean? Anyway, we digress.

Pat 13:07

Yeah, we digress. Okay. Well good to see you.

Rich 13:10

You too, mate.

Pat 13:11

Missed you last week. I know. I'm looking a little hagger and homeless, but like I said, I've been doing my yard work. The spring is cleaning. Is the weather going good? Is it starting to spring over there yet or still a

Rich 13:20

little? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. The sun's, the sun's been out such a, such a different slow light. You know, you can feel the mood in London that's, it's just lifted, man. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it's nice.

Pat 13:32

Flowers are blooming, putting up all this cold stuff. So, uh, it's feeling really good. Good. Uh, our, uh, topic today, and like I said, we hadn't, discussed it and it's kind of a short topic, but it does have a lot of meaning. It's called, uh, spiritual paradoxical undressing. Uh hmm. And I'm, I'll explain that in just a second, but before we get to it, I just want to tell you, I had, um, in our earlier episodes when we started the year. Um, we did an episode on anger, and then we did an episode on choosing your attitude and anxiety. And I just wanted to give a little report because I, our conversations actually helped me. I actually listened to what you say and, you know, kind of put'em into practice and not just act like, uh, you know, we have some kind of infinite wisdom, but I did start putting those into practice. The, the, the anger. The, you know, where, where I was thinking, you know, I would say, wait, what am I troubled by? And then you were talking about, what, what's the guy's name? The,

Rich 14:31

oh, David Wolfson.

Pat 14:32

Yeah. David David Wolfson. Is this gonna matter in five minutes? And I extrapolated that Is, is this really gonna have an impact on my life? And I just wanted to say that. After that episode, I really kind of started thinking, I made a conscious decision to start thinking about that. That because we, anybody that hadn't heard that episode, we went through all the physiological damaging, it's not just anger, it's bugging you. There's so many things that A, that impact your life spiritually. Physiologically. It does so many things and, and it's actually made a difference. Honestly. I've just, when I start to get a little ill or irritated about something, I would immediately just think of those things. Honestly, I would think, wait, why am I troubled by this? And I could literally see you saying, is this gonna matter in five minutes? And I would just kinda laugh and move on. So it helped make a difference. And then the episode we did on Choose Your Attitude, you'd be amazed by. By getting control of the things that irritate you and anger you, you know, like the small things or big things really impacts your attitude because when you're not letting that affect you and you're not letting that get you, you know, frustrated about things, it actually really improved my attitude. And when you improve your attitude, you definitely lowered your anxiety. And I see the big brain, uh, working. So, go ahead. Were you about to say something?

Rich 15:53

Um, I was just thinking about the app. You know how when we put this stuff into practice, you know, how, how much difference it can actually make. Um, and, you know, hoping it, I was thinking about, I hope it's helped some, some of our listeners, um, but yeah, that choose your attitude. It, it is interesting. I, I think I've been walking this line recently with, and I've been doing it in my work a bit, so like there's, there's two. Uh, sometimes what I've found really helpful recently is like, I've been working with someone personally, like my own therapy, who has just really challenged me, like to choose a different attitude, you know what I mean? Like really, you know, like, stop it, you know what I mean? Stop doing that. You know what I mean? Like, so some of my anxieties and stuff, right? It's just like, why, you know, stop, you know, very direct, right? Quite different to what I've experienced before. And it, it's been, you know, it's been great. It's been like hugely changeable. And then, but then I, I noticed with other people. They sometimes they just need that bit of extra help. You know what I mean? That bit of extra help. And I think in the context of this conversation, a big source of where that extra help can come from is Jesus, right? Like so I know that, um, you know, someone very close to me has been praying a lot around some kind of like insecurities and fears and stuff, you know, like long running stuff, you know, and really, um, going through a process of like. Lamenting, you know, so like Lamentations, do you know what I mean? Like really allowing the fear, you know, whatever it might be. Right. The fear like to be there. Yeah. But then bringing it to God. Do you know what I mean? So it's not like trying to like ride rough shot over it with a line of scripture. Yeah. Like so I've got, okay, this is a good one. I've got my board at the moment. My heart and mind have peace.

Pat 17:55

Yeah.

Rich 17:57

So it's like instead, but instead of going like, oh God, I'm anxious. Oh it's okay. My heart and mind have peace and almost starts squashing it down. It's like really allowing whatever, you know, the fear, whatever's driving the anxiety to be there, but bringing that to God, you know? And um, I, you know, I've seen that be hugely helpful to people like changing. Giving them the ability to choose that attitude. Anyway, so that was some of what went on through my, as you say, enormous brain. Um, just in, just in a few milliseconds there, Patrick.

Pat 18:32

I'm glad you brought that up'cause that's actually a good segue, uh, to what we're gonna talk about because it's kinda the same thing. See, we have, we telepathic all the way across that the ocean. And I'm glad you mentioned what you did because to anybody that's listening that didn't hear those other episodes, there is a time when you need, uh, help. There are people that, that have problems, have troubles that, uh, I, I know you, I know you know my buddy Dr. Beverly Smallwood, that literally are lifesavers to people because people can't just sit back and just do that. There's a lot of harm, a lot of in, in, uh, grain things in people's lives that, as we said in earlier episode, a lot goes back to childhood. We don't have time to cover all of that, so, but what we were talking about, there's where you need clinical help. That's where you need the psychology and you really need somebody to walk through. But you and I are past that. So we're to the, not totally, but we're to the point where, um. You know, you're talking about the things that, just the minor anxieties that we had TA had talked about. There's so much you can do that as you said, that can just change your attitude. And it's funny that you pull that card up. I took one of my business cards and I wrote three scriptures on the back of'em. Um, and one of'em has to do with doubt, hope, and who I'm supposed to be. And it's just amazing that I've just pulled those up every day and I just kinda look at it and it's just, you just look at the scripture. It just, I, it just tells me right off the page, it quickly recenters me. Nope, this is where I am and this is who I am. So obviously our podcast is about two people that were miserable people and, uh, leading lives of destruction and unhappiness and our path, to following Jesus is what changed everything with us. But people do still need, still do need it, you know, when they have these, these, um. There's things that you need help, and it's always talking, uh, you know, talking to, to, to other people that, that can help you out. But you are right that changing your attitude, the thing that you just showed, makes a big difference. I've done similar things, so once again, we're kind of running the same paths, but I just wanted to mention that the things that we talked about. Do matter if you put them into practice. A little bit of practice with me, it always is coming back to Jesus and being a follower of Jesus and what he taught and what he taught us. But, uh, our discussions, like I said, have benefited and I just wanted to point that out. But you had me, you have another thought on that.

Rich 20:58

No, no, no. I was just thanking you, Patrick, for your wisdom and um, yeah,

Pat 21:05

well, it,

21:05

well

Rich 21:05

just gen generally being you, pat. That's what I was saying. Thank you for

Pat 21:09

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. But, but I, listen, like I said, you know, so I, I'm, I'm, we're privately doing this, so I'm getting free. Therapy free educated therapy from Richard, for those that don't know, so you should pay attention when he's talking. So Richard actually has degrees. I'm going on experience, to, for whatever, wisdom I have, but I, but it's amazing that if you do discuss it, it just dawned on me if you discuss the things that we discuss and then you. You're not just doing it for a podcast. And then I close the, turn the camera and the microphone's off, and then I go put it into to practice. It's actually made a big difference, with me. But let's cover this. Um, this was brought to me by a very brilliant person. And that would be my wife. Did I ever tell you that I had been married 35 years?

Rich 22:01

Yes, pat. Many, many times.

Pat 22:05

I just, I just wanna make sure, you know.

Rich 22:08

Yeah. I thought it was nearly 36.

Pat 22:10

It's 36 now. Yeah. I, uh, yeah. Well, it's the one thing I'm really proud of. It's the one, it's the one thing I did well. But anyway, my wife, uh, and I, you know, I don't know about people who have these special lines to God or the, but. I'm telling you, there's something that she has that I, throughout my life, I can just tell you. I remember one day I was driving home in, in my Jaguar, by the way, my little xk, my little, uh, XK eight. You remember the XK eights? Yeah. They, they're still out there, but I had, I had the hard top, you know how cool the Antigua blue, almost the British. British Blue.'cause you know, I like, you know, I love the Brits even before I met you. But I'm driving home and this is just an example. I'm in this, this rainstorm and I hit this big massive puddle and the car's just spinning on the highway and I'm, you know, that's a fast car. I'm probably doing 75, 80 and the car's just spinning and I, there's no control whatsoever. I started going to the ditch towards the other lane and something stopped the car down in the median and. I just sat there for a minute, totally freaked out and was able to pull up. I get home, my wife, uh. This was before cell phones. How are you? Are you okay? Why? What? I just got an intense feeling to pray for you about an hour ago, and I was just like, okay, you gotta be kidding. But it goes on, I mean, probably every week I will, my wife will wake up and say, I have the need. I just had so and so on my mind the last couple of days, and then we'll find out. It's a relative that has cancer. Or something like that. So some people have that's going on. That's not really pertinent to this, but I'm just telling you there's something with her. But let me tell you about paradoxical undressing and what that is. You've probably heard of the actual paradoxical undressing. It's a phenomenon in severe hypothermia where victims experiencing extreme cold paradoxically remove their clothes, often leading. To faster death, and it occurs in 20 to 50% of hypothermia cases. And it stems from intense confusion and a sensation of burning heat caused by peripheral nerve failure. And, um, vasomotor, uh, vater, I, that's a big word there, rich tone. The point is you see what that is. It's somebody is freezing, but they get confused and something makes them do the opposite of what they need to do. They take off the clothing and then they expose themselves. So if they had more time to live, or could you, you see what I'm saying? They, they hasten their death, but they do the opposite of what they need to do. So I just, my wife had written this down and so I just wanted to share this and she called it, spiritual paradoxical undressing. Um, the thing where people who are freeing to death are moving their clothes, that could save them spiritually if we're stressed, depressed. Feeling insignificant or less than perfect. We begin spiritual paradoxical and dressing, isolating ourselves because we don't want people to know of our shortcomings or indiscretions because they may not think well of us ceasing to read the Bible. Fearing it will only point out those things we feel bad about. Then ceasing to pray thinking God is so disappointed in us that he doesn't want to hear from us. All these actions are shedding the things that actually save us, leaving us vulnerable and susceptible to the attacks of Satan, which is his plan all along. Yeah.

Rich 25:38

Yeah.

Pat 25:39

Um, do you have thoughts on

Rich 25:41

that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 100% life. I mean, it's. I, in some ways, pat, this goes, you know, right back to the beginning, you know, like when we spoke about like the in gospel, you know, and that idea is like grace, you know, like grace, forgiveness, and love. It's like, you know, like. It's difficult, if not impossible, to really wrap our heads around like how loved we are. Right? Like, you know, like the Jesus came to earth to die for us sins. He was sent, you know, like God sent him down here while we were still sinners and he died for us, you know, like while we was sinners, right? So, but it gets so easy to lose sight of that. It's like, I'm not worthy, like, you know, I don't have, um. I'm not really a Christian. I'm not really saved because if I was, I wouldn't be feeling like this. I wouldn't be thinking like this, you know, there's something wrong with me. And so like people go like within, you know, and they kind of hide and, you know, drift away from those spiritual practices and you know, they're feeling low as that kind of afflicted by, you know, like a kind of spirit of depression or whatever it might be. Right? But 100%. But like, don't actually realize, it's like, look, these are all that's. That's not only when we need him more, but when he's, he's like there, like, like he came for people that were in the, you know, the, the midst of all that stuff, you know, lepers and. You know, like the, the, like, the most, you know, marginalized members of society, you know, like people, you know, they, they're ill. It's like, you know, don't call a doctor if someone's well, you know, so, but yeah, like, it is, it's like paradoxical undressing. I really like that the, as soon as you start talking about it, I was like, I know where he is. Like, I could see where this is going. I really like that. And then the other thing that come up, came up for me was, um, uh. I listened to a sermon, excuse me, a sermon the other day, um, by a guy called Steven Foster from a church over here in the UK called st, which is a, an amazing church. And, um, Steven's a fabulous, fabulous preacher. And he, he was, you know, the, the topic of sermon was about like being in fight. Being in spiritual warfare. Yeah. And he said, you know, like if you get knocked down or like you are struggling, you know, or it's like that's not evidence that like. Like Jesus isn't in your life. Like, that's the evident, the ev that's the evidence of like why you need Jesus, you know? And, um, so yeah, like, yeah. Brilliant. I really like it, you know, you know, big, um, big, big props to your, your good wife for, for sending that across. I think that's brilliant.

Pat 28:36

Be surprised. I, I was able to marry somebody like that, aren't you?

Rich 28:40

Well, sometimes I wonder if you are,'cause I've never seen her, you know?

Pat 28:47

Smoke.

Rich 28:48

So I wonder if it's just you in a, in a dress. No, that is, that is, yeah.

Pat 28:58

Total smoke. Even after three, six years because, you know, you, you know, so you, you being a psy, a psychologist, you know, deep down inside of me, you know, there's some superficiality going on. You, you, you know, you know, I come from a place of there, and I, I think I told you this before, when I met my wife, she was the best looking woman that. That had ever given me the time. Matter of fact, when we, we started talking, I wasn't really making, I wasn't really making moves.'cause I'm thinking this is way outta my league. And then slowly but surely, I was like, she's buying this. And, and I was just stunned. That's why I, that's why we got married within a hundred days. I was like, I don't even, I don't even know, really know her that I don't know if she, she could be bipolar. But the weekends are gonna, but the weekends are going to be fun. I should say that. But it just, and then it turned out I was like, it was proof that God loved me. I was like, wait a second, you, I did, I married my wife for all of the superficial reasons of who I was at that time, which was pretty, pretty shallow at the time. And it came with this great package. But, but she is, she. She does have kind of this, this line. I, like I said, I don't know when people say God told me, she never says God told me, but there's things that, that kind of hit her, and she just popped that into her head, and, uh, and put it down. And I think if people would apply that, you know, if I have the one, um, I have the one thing rule. Like I did my show spoke at a church and I mentioned the one thing rule and the pastor has. Contacted me later on and said, you know, I, I now preach. The one thing that you came up with that you had mentioned when you were here, and it's if you read a book, if you get one thing, if you listen to a podcast, if you get one thing, uh, if you have a conversation, you get one thing, you hear a sermon and just have one thing stick in your head. But if you get one thing from this is just what Richard, what you've just said is that's what we do. In life, the paradoxical undressing. We do the exact opposite of what we said we were going to do. And you mentioned it. Jesus came to heal the sick. He didn't come to heal the well. So we think, uh. Like in the Old Testament, you remember they were, if something happened, if they were sick or Ill somehow that was God was doing. You know, I think it's human nature to think if things aren't going well, for example, when do you feel loved the most? I know I, you know, if something great happens, oh, it's just proof that God loves me and look at how he's blessed me and he's so pleased with me. Then when something goes wrong, what do you start thinking? And it's exactly what you just said. You start thinking, well, maybe God's not happy with me, so maybe I gotta struggle. Instead of like, this is just life and this is why Jesus came to help us. And the strength is there. Instead of, and, and I mean, I've done it. When you go through stress, do you start pulling the Bible out more? Well, you and I may now because of, because of the changes in our life in the past. I didn't, I, you know, that's when you stop doing that, you stop, I gotta go. Take care of this. And then when I settle in, then I pick the Bible back up. But that's the time when you're stressed is you need to pray more. That's the time when you need to pick up the, the Bible more. That's the time when you need to go to God more.'cause God's is he's our father. And I know, like with my children, when they're stressed, when if things are going well for'em, I'm very happy. But I am more in tuned if something's going wrong in their lives. I'm more in tune with what's going on. I'm more thinking how I can help. Do you, does that make sense? Mm-hmm. You know, my, my attention is on them a little more. Mm-hmm. And God's the same way with us, but God speaks in the smaller voice. Satan shouts, Satan shout shouting at you. Uh, you're not worthy.

Rich 32:54

Yeah. What kind of Christian are you?

Pat 32:57

Yeah,

Rich 32:58

yeah,

Pat 32:58

yeah. All that, that you just thought, look, why would this happen to you if God loved you? Or why would you be stressed about this, and why would you be going through that? And it's just all part of life and God is there to look after us and take care of us. So if people could just remember that I did, when I read that, I thought this. This needs to be brought up in an episode.'cause if people could start realizing that you are paradoxically undressing, you're doing the exact opposite of what you need to do.

Rich 33:26

Yeah. So I think, I think being in, um, like 12 step recovery. I've learned, you know, we, you know, we learn in those groups, right? It's like to be open and vulnerable about struggles, about afflictions, about difficulties, you know, like, and to, you know, to take that to prayer and, but also like to, to people around us to let people know that struggling, you know, and, and, um, I think what I see. But one of the reasons I love being part of a, an addiction recovery Christian ministry Yeah. Is it's real man. Do you know what I mean? There's none of that like, you know, like turn up. But, you know, look, my experience. I don't wanna sound judgmental. I'll go to church every Sunday. I've go to two churches every Sunday and a lot of the conversations I have will be like, how are you? Yeah, I'm great. Good week. Yeah, quite busy. Thanks. How about you? Yeah, yeah. No, really great. Thanks. Nice to see you. See you next Sunday. Bye. Everything's great. Yeah, and actually, what I've experienced obviously is quite a new Christian, is actually to try and build relationships in that space, like real. Meaningful relationships with honesty and vulnerability in them are actually quite, it's actually quite difficult. Yeah. But in, in the Addiction Recovery Ministries, it's raw. How are you? I'm really struggling. I've had a really difficult week. Do you know what I mean? I've like fallen short here or I've like acted out here or, you know, like it's, it's real, right? So it's like, it's a real blessing that, that I've got in my life. And I think a blessing for like recovering people is like. Actually, you know, obviously there's a lot of suffering that gets you into that place in the first place. Right. But it's like, actually learn to be open, learn to accept struggles, learn that like it's all right, it's pretty normal, you know, like most people have those kind of difficulties. But yeah, like that's definitely a skill that I've, I've learned. And then that in conjunction with. Having blessed, having people put in my path, having literature put in my path that helped me realize the limitless love that he has for me, that Jesus has for me. And the fact, you know, well, God has for me, you know, it's, it's been helpful. You know, like actually I know when I'm afflicted is when I really need him the most, you know? Um, it's like when we them out, you know, we don't who was sitting that wrote about it? I can't remember. It's about united, the mountains and the valleys and it's like, it's all well and good being on the mountaintop. Yeah. All well and good being on the mountaintop, you know, like full of the spirit. It's great. Yeah. But actually God, you find, you, you meet God and you really get to know God in the valleys, you know, you really get spam in the valleys, you know, and I, I, I really like that idea. So, yeah.

Pat 36:19

Great point to kind of wrap it up on, I've learned nothing in life by success. I've learned nothing by the good times. I've learned nothing. By the, by being up on the mountain, it's going through the valleys. That's where I learned, that's where the changes come in. That's where I've gotten closer to God. So that may be kind of an answer why we go through, remember the episode we did on the Blessings of Struggles. When you come through something, when you have troubles and you have struggles and you put your faith in God and you come out on it, and you look back and see what he did, it's hard for me to describe to people that haven't had that the, the joy. And that's what builds faith. That's what builds your trust, and that's what builds peace and joy in life. So, that's a good point. I've learned nothing on the mountain when I've hit the mountain. I, I've learned nothing by making a lot of money. I have learned a lot. By being broke. You know what I mean? I learned a lot by being, uh, through the unhappy times and through the struggles, because that's where you change. So that's, I'm not saying, you know, God allows things to happen for these for reasons, but when you're struggling. It's bringing, coming back to God. I think you said, the most important, uh, one thing, when you're having trouble, when you're having struggles, just you, that's the time to intensify your relationship with God. He's not disappointed. He loves you. He's there. He knows what you're going through. He cares. He wants you to come through and he's going to get you through the other side. And that's what ends up in places where you live a life of the great joy and peace, and there's nothing like coming through a struggle and coming out the other end. So, very good point there. Rich, do you have any, any final thoughts there?

Rich 38:02

No, that's it, ma'am. Those are all my thoughts. It's, it's five o'clock, uh, Friday evening here, so, um. Well, there's about 90 seconds till five o'clock. So my, I'm, I'm all thought out, man. I've got enough. I've got no thoughts left. You've got the last of them?

Pat 38:19

No, I'm watching the clock right here. I'm like, Richard is taking his Friday afternoon to, share his brilliance with me and the world, and I'm looking down here. I'm like gotta cut him loose at 11 o'clock. It's 11 o'clock my time. That's why I look like I'm homeless'cause, I just got up and I'm still finishing up yard work. Alright man. Well y'all have a great weekend there and great, Brittany and I will go out and look out the window just in case I see some men coming. You, I'm feeling pretty, I'm feeling pretty secure here, but I can hit the turf if I have to. I'm always, I'm always aware. Just letting you know. So, alright man, well God bless everybody out there. Thank you for listening in and you can send your thoughts, comments, any topics you want us to, to cover on our text on the episode, or you could even email me@patmccool.com. So Rich, have a good weekend, bud.

Rich 39:12

You too. God bless Pat and God bless everybody. Bye.