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MindSpa - The Podcast
MindSpa is your go-to podcast for insightful conversations on mental health. Hosted by Michelle, Tina, the owners of MindSpa, each episode features roundtable discussions on key mental health topics, along with guest interviews. From stress management to relationships and personal growth, MindTalk brings professional insights in an engaging and accessible way. Tune in weekly for valuable discussions that support your well-being and help you navigate life’s challenges.
MindSpa - The Podcast
Ep 3 When TikTok Becomes Your Therapist: Navigating Modern Mental Health Challenges
The digital landscape has transformed how we view ourselves, relate to others, and manage our mental health—and not always for the better. In this candid conversation, we dive deep into the psychological impact of social media platforms that have evolved from simple photo sharing to complex engines of comparison and self-doubt.
Remember when Facebook was just about connecting with friends? We explore how social media's evolution from basic status updates to today's algorithm-driven content has fundamentally changed our relationship with technology and ourselves. The "highlight reel" effect has taken on new dimensions with platforms like Instagram and TikTok, where perfectly curated lives create impossible standards. We discuss the shocking reality that many people who appear to "have it all together" online often struggle with remarkably low self-esteem behind the scenes.
Particularly troubling is the trend of mental health self-diagnosis through social media. Terms like PTSD, narcissism, and OCD have become casual buzzwords, often stripped of their clinical meaning. While increased awareness is positive, these oversimplifications can minimize serious conditions and lead people to misidentify normal experiences as pathological. Even more concerning is the emerging use of AI platforms like ChatGPT as replacement therapists, offering unlimited validation without the crucial human elements of perspective, challenge, and accountability.
Despite these challenges, we acknowledge social media's positive role in destigmatizing mental health conversations and creating communities where people feel seen and understood. The key lies in mindful usage—being aware of how these platforms affect us and setting appropriate boundaries. Many people report dramatic improvements in wellbeing after taking social media breaks, suggesting that our digital habits may be more harmful than we realize.
We challenge you to experiment with your own social media habits. Try putting your phone away for an entire evening and notice how many times you instinctively reach for it. This simple exercise reveals just how automated our digital behaviors have become and offers a first step toward reclaiming genuine human connection in an increasingly virtual world.
All right, well, welcome back to another episode of Mind Talk. I'm excited for our conversation. I feel like these are things that we often talk about, you and I, but we don't actually talk about it live on the podcast. And so our listeners we don't have a mic in front of our faces, but our listeners get the chance to now be a part of our conversation and, just you know, listen in on some of the things that we talk about on a regular basis. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But one of the things that we've been recently talking about a lot and it's showing up in our work is social media and the role that that's playing in mental health or impacting the mental health of our clients or those that we see. Yeah, Um so with.
Speaker 3:TikTok, tiktok it's been a game changer, and I mean really Facebook was the first game changer and we noticed stuff there. But now. Tiktok has done this whole new thing for people's mental health.
Speaker 1:Cause you guys had this rule in your house around TikTok.
Speaker 3:We do. We have banned TikTok in our household, so I'm actually not even on TikTok, even though I have an account. Yeah, what have you noticed? Well, I mean TikTok in particular. I mean, I think, if we actually back it up and start at where Facebook started, causing problems with people's mental health started very much with that highlight reel. People are just putting their highlight reel onto social media. Talk about it. They are taking so much time to get that perfect photo.
Speaker 1:They're, they're hiring professionals for their well? Yeah, but it's different in the sense where it's like it needs to be so curated and so perfect that like. I'm investing in this, you know, and it's definitely taken a different, a completely different toll.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I want to say that you know before that magazines would edit photos and they would create this unrealistic image, but it was this very static image that was unrealistic. But now people's entire lives Exactly that's different Are creating this unrealistic expectation. But then, also, because we're going to follow multiple accounts or follow multiple friends or follow multiple things, we'll do what we've always done since grade school, where I'm going to compare my math grade to the top math student and my English grade to the top English student, and we're going to do that, but in every aspect of our lives.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's I mean especially. I think I see that a lot on Instagram, where it's like the land of the flexing right, like you showed, like the best version of your house, the best version of your car, the best version of everything of you. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But again, that's a curated piece you know and angles. Exactly. It's all about that, you know, and I think that that's the dangers in. That is the impact that it has. We know when it comes to like depression, especially comparing ourselves. Oh, my gosh is huge and that's part of, like the distorted ways of thinking I'm not good enough, I don't have enough this, I don't have enough that, and the role that that plays in our own view of like self, our own self-esteem yeah you know and that's a huge thing that we're seeing a lot in terms of that.
Speaker 1:I'm seeing more people take breaks now yes from social media. Have you seen that a lot too with your just taking like social media breaks and like pauses, oh, yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean people often will say I notice a direct correlation with the time spent on social media to my mental health. Yeah, especially if there's like a lot of stuff going on in the world right now and so those headlines it's a lot. Yeah, and you were talking about self-esteem and there's this piece of perfectionism that's in there as well. That's something that we deal with a lot in therapy. Perfectionism is one of those, one of the most rewarding mental health conditions people can have. Society rewards it a lot. You're going to be an accomplished person. You're going to be someone who gets good grades. You're going to get a lot of feedback. Oh, your house looks amazing. Look at you, you know. But very often that standard, that standard is so high and social media is going to feed that standard as being way too high and really hard to reach, and then the self-esteem just can't grow. You can't, you'd be. I think anybody would be shocked to find out the low self-esteem that exists in people you think have it all together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's such a good point. And what happens when that piece, when the highlights, are taken away, right Like what does that? Now do to how I view myself If I'm not getting enough feedback from the likes or from the shares or from the comments like how is that now directly correlated to how I view myself? Right.
Speaker 1:Like I've taken that away to the point where it's not even about how I see myself, but more so about, like, how you see me and how the viewers see me and the role that that plays in now, how I see myself. Right, if you think I'm good enough to give me that like and that comment and that share, that I must be doing a good enough job, and how distorted that can become in our view of self and view of the world really as a whole.
Speaker 3:Well, and when you bring that up, the likes piece to it. There's also this massive. I've seen relationships completely implode because they liked something that the person's upset. You shouldn't have liked that, or you didn't like the stuff, or you liked it instead of hearted it. I remember the first time someone said to me it was texting, but I feel like the message is similar where they said they texted me oh okay, can you believe that? Oh, okay. And I was like I'm so confused.
Speaker 1:Tell me more. What does that? Mean to you what is?
Speaker 3:okay, no, but it was capital O, capital K and I'm like, all right, I still need you to explain to me. But I think there's this whole lingo of what people comment, how they comment, what they write, which emojis they use and all that kind of stuff, and it creates this whole new world of hurting people. It's wild Hurting people. And then the anonymity yeah, that adds this whole, all these like internet bullies.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh you the anonymity that that adds this whole. All these like internet bullies and you can do so much behind the screen or on your phone, but how that's different and it's so interesting too. Right Cause sometimes when you see people on social media, you think that they're like these extroverts and things of that nature, but then when you? Meet them in person. You're like wait? You're not. This is there's not. There's a disconnect here. You know, so there's a lot that can be hidden. Yeah.
Speaker 1:In terms of like our reality when it comes to what is being posted, what's being seen, what I decide to have seen and what I decide to have posted or not posted. Yeah. But that's having a huge impact, I think on, on a lot of folks mental health wise, self-esteem wise, but in different ways, which is it's crazy.
Speaker 3:And then so. So then it evolved right. It started in this like, if you think about how Facebook was, it was sort of just just photos. There was no videos, kind of updating your status on, on what you're doing today, and then, and then that turned into, you know, we saw it go to Instagram where it was like really focused on photos and filters. I mean, there's been there, there's been you know, the research behind what. What happens to people's view of their self when they only seeing themselves in a filter.
Speaker 3:And then all of a sudden, they're at home, their makeup's off, they're brushing their teeth and they are feeling a lot of of yeah, they don't like how they look, they don't like themselves, they only like this version of themselves. It doesn't actually exist. That's deep, yeah. And how do you get?
Speaker 1:around that without cutting it out. That's where the addiction comes into play. Yeah Right, that's where that drive for more of that dopamine comes into play, which is again.
Speaker 2:We're seeing a lot of social media addiction a lot of porn addiction.
Speaker 3:It's like I need to it's like a whole thing.
Speaker 1:That comes up so much. Yes, it comes up so much, but it's like I need to be able to see and feel what it looks like to have that version of me out there. And so when the cameras are off, I don't feel that same way. And now I need to be able to maintain that. I need to nurture that. I need to continue to pour into that, because that's the part of me that makes me feel the way that I want to feel. Yeah. And pathetic yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, if you think to the role that it plays in distraction, like social media creates this, I can't be alone with myself. And so then, if you say, well, this is bad for your mental health, you should probably not be on social media, so much it's like, no, but I can't be alone with myself. What would the silence is loud.
Speaker 3:Where would I go on my phone If it's not social media? Cause I need something in the lineup at the grocery store while I'm waiting at the doctor's office, while I'm waiting for my appointment, Like I can't just sit, I can't be.
Speaker 1:I can't go into a weight room or a restaurant and not have folks all around you on their phone Like that's just because it's become our new norm.
Speaker 3:It has become our new normal, which is a real disconnect from other people in our lives. I even remember this is going to age me so but I do remember when phones first were first, um, just connected to the internet all the time. And what would happen where people would say, you know, I can't go out for dinner with someone anymore without them basically being on their phone almost the whole time and it feels so rude. And then it was actually just text messages. Yeah, that's all it was, let alone all the notifications that we get on all the different social media, plus any kind of text messages, and when text messages were like pre-populated, you could only write like a few words.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's how that whole shorthand even I think into existence or like the paper text.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you remember the paper text, but I mean I it's funny because I just I feel like it was a simpler time, it was a simpler world. And this when, when we look at you, we talk a lot about youth mental health, it's in a bad place. And if I were to ask myself what's the, what's one of the biggest differences between how I grew up and how they're growing up? Social media has got to be hands down.
Speaker 1:That's the biggest difference, yeah, and that's been the biggest focus for this generation and previous ones. So much so that I've heard some schools even like not allowing phones in the classroom.
Speaker 3:I don't know why they allowed them in the first place. That's the. I wish they had just started that way, where it was like no so, because now people are used to accessing their kids in the middle of the day, teachers are used to having them rely on their phones to look things up.
Speaker 1:It's become the new normal. Yeah, yeah, it's become the new normal. I think the other thing that stands out in terms of like the new norms is the role of like Chachi BT. Yes, like that's huge.
Speaker 3:Oh gosh, so fast. Like, how long has it been around for? Seriously, I don't know, is it three months, four months? It hasn't been long it's been, but it's evolved.
Speaker 1:It's terrifying, but that's the power of AI, right yeah? I think, that's the power of it, where the evolution of it is so fast, so quickly, and I remember I don't remember the stats, but in terms of the amount of users that they have per day, millions. Right. Millions per day. Yeah, and I think that in and of itself like that social media, but AI plus the social media piece and mental health, it's a hot mess.
Speaker 3:It's a hot mess, it's a hot mess.
Speaker 1:It's crazy.
Speaker 3:I mean, when you bring up AI and social media, I do think about the role of how social media deals with mental health, and I've got really mixed feelings about it, because I actually think that the de-stigmatizing that is happening in social media is beautiful. It's wonderful. It's really normalizing people's experiences. I've seen a lot of people get so much value from seeing themselves portrayed through social media. When someone says I've been going through this, this, this, like I'm going through that too, you know, and so I think it's. It's great in that way. Yeah, but but there's a downside. There's some significant downsides. The one they see all the time is the diagnostic piece.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah Right, Like oh my God, I got PTSD. Can you please tell me what the DSM says the criteria is for PTSD? But definitely that I know like PTSD is a big one that we're seeing and they're almost used as like buzzwords.
Speaker 3:Yeah, which takes away from the gravity of the actual diagnosis.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally does PTSD. The gravity of the actual diagnosis yeah, totally does PTSD. Adhd Another one that I'm seeing a lot of is oh, what's the other one? Autism, autism. Yeah, that's another one that comes up. There's another one that I'm often seeing. I can't remember, but anyways, I feel like those are the things BPD Narcissism. Narcissism Everyone's like my wife is a narcissist. My wife is a narcissist Like how do you know so many narcissists Right Like?
Speaker 3:that comes up a lot, because and this is what I think that okay, when I think of our diagnostic manual, I think of it as this massive book of behaviors that all humans have to some degree and all. So I think that you could literally, if you just pull a few of the, the we're all in there we're all in there somewhere because it's all, but it's all on a spectrum, exactly, and so it has to.
Speaker 3:Actually, one of the and I think a lot of listeners probably don't know this, but one of the main criteria is this has to significantly negatively impact your life. And so I see a lot of people OCD is a big one, right, people will see. Okay, if you actually just look at the criteria, I think a lot of people would say, oh, I have OCD, except that it does not negatively impact my life at all. Yes, it annoys me, or I like I think, oh my God, did I turn off the stove, but do I actually? Am I late for work because I've gone back to check five times? Or do you know what I mean Like? Am I, am I upsetting my family members by being so, um, like, insistent that they check again, even though they've already checked?
Speaker 1:like you know what I mean Like, and that's the dangers I think you alluded to it where it's like yes, social media is great because it can provide information. Um, it can provide awareness. I should say, yeah, around certain things, but it can also be misleading. Yeah, and when it starts to exactly that right, when it starts to like oversimplify significant diagnoses, when it starts to minimize the impact that it could have on your life, then we obviously would see ourselves as having OCD as being narcissists as having PTSD.
Speaker 1:But going through a traumatic event or going through something that's trauma doesn't mean that you have PTSD now.
Speaker 3:No, that's not the diagnostic criteria. That's not how you meet criteria.
Speaker 1:That is not how you meet it that does not mean you meet criteria for PTSD right. Absolutely. How do we sort of like tread that carefully where it's like this is great awareness? It's now turned my attention to this diagnosis. Yeah, but how do I now know if this diagnosis meets how I'm feeling and functioning? Yeah. Versus. This is a diagnosis that exists, but I don't necessarily meet criteria for this diagnosis.
Speaker 3:Right. And if we can learn to look at it that way, where it's like, oh, this is flagging me for something that is an area of struggle in my life, great, but you don't actually want to. We always use that term. What is it? Pathologize, right. Where everything is a pathology, everything means that you're sick. Because I had this thought and, to be honest, I haven't looked up the research on it, but I want to and it's about this concept of the teen years where identity is forming.
Speaker 3:We know that, that the teen years are the period of time where we develop our identity, so what happens if I actually start adopting to my identity a mental health diagnosis and what that's going to look like for a lifetime? Because what we know is that a lot of these things, through treatment, can the symptoms will disappear. You will no longer have that that diagnosis anymore. But if I adopted as part of my, as a part of who I am, a part of my identity. We know this. If anybody's ever been through something in their formative years and they adopt it, whatever it is, as part of their identity, it's so much harder to work on in therapy because it's almost like they feel like a part of them is being taken away. So I worry a little bit about how social media creates like. Has that identity impact on teens as well?
Speaker 1:That's a really good point and I feel like that's you're hearing those words a lot more right it's my anxiety or I have anxiety. It's like, have you like, is this like a diagnosed anxiety?
Speaker 3:or is this diagnosed? Are you feeling stressed? Are you feeling a stressful situation? Are?
Speaker 1:you overwhelmed? Are you simply overwhelmed by this? But it's true. I think that's where you know we talked about, like the brain, and how malleable it is and sometimes even like not being flexible with these things, but being so rigid and how we're thinking or how we're seeing things, that does become how we view ourselves and how trying to undo that or unstick ourselves from that identity becomes its own issue. Now it's like, okay, but who am I if I'm not, if I don't have anxiety?
Speaker 3:or PTSD like who am I?
Speaker 1:now, you know. And so that's where, again, if we're seeing it all over our newsfeed, all over social media, we are going to adopt that identity because we feel like it fits. But the important thing is to take that as more just awareness. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And now, with that awareness, approach it with curiosity. Yes, and with that curiosity. Now I'm going to actually go to a licensed professional to see if I actually who has a DSM, isn't just a content creator but has a DSM can actually now confirm or validate whether this is a diagnosis that you meet criteria for or not. I think there's that missing link between, like what I'm seeing on social media and what I actually do with that information and where I go with it.
Speaker 3:Because what I think a lot of people also don't know is that licensed psychologists, this is all they do is diagnose. It's not always that straightforward to actually diagnose anyone because, again, if you look at the diagnostic manual there's a ton of overlap. They actually have to do these things called differential diagnosis right when they have to say we actually have to rule out these things before we can actually diagnose this piece over here and on that note of sort of BPD and narcissism, it's creating again this concept that this person who's maybe done something like everyone has gaslit themselves it's another one buzzword.
Speaker 3:Everyone has gaslit someone else in their entire life. There's something very different to like an episode, a moment where you feel gaslit or someone is gaslighting you, and narcissistic personality disorder, where that person, that's, that's, their only way of interacting is through gaslighting and control, like it's. It's deeper than that it's, it's more to it.
Speaker 1:There's so much more to it, there's so much more to it. But we miss that.
Speaker 3:We miss the gap in those areas or the damage it causes to call someone else that because, interestingly, what we know in the field is that narcissists often project their stuff onto others and will actually tell their partner or that they're a narcissist, which actually, interestingly, emboldens actual narcissists to be more toxic towards their partners.
Speaker 1:Because now they can manipulate more right. How many times have you had a?
Speaker 3:client come in and say I think I might be narcissistic and I'm like. Well, first of all, the fact that you're saying that probably means because most most most won't, but I. What makes you say that? Well, my partner said it, and then I looked it up and I said, yeah, I do do that, I've done this, I've done that, I've done that. I must be a narcissist.
Speaker 3:No no, there's so much more to it, sweetie. Yeah, there's a lot more to it, yeah, so not I mean, and it's funny because we were talking about that piece of AI, how, how AI comes into it as well, and now we have people using AI as therapists.
Speaker 1:Like if you, you know I live on TikTok. Yeah, if you scroll through TikTok, I saw this one. Uh, tiktok, where this girl was. She came on camera and she was crying and she's like I just had a session with my GPT therapist and she's like I have never felt more validated than I have felt in this moment. I have never felt more seen than I have felt in this moment and she's like I'm done with human connections. It drains me Like it's it's mind blowing. It's mind blowing. And you're seeing that that's like a new trend on Tik TOK, where it's like hey, what prompts do I need to use to talk to my chat GPT therapist? Like, what do I need to say? And that, in and of itself, is becoming a dangerous trend.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, Just the my brain is going in a million different directions on the implications of that and, interestingly, the video clearly spoke to.
Speaker 3:One of the biggest problems is that now you find it harder to actually interact with humans that aren't just about what you've prompted them to say to you, what you've prompted them to how for them to react to you and that's why I mean backing up again a little bit is that we saw a huge shift in how young people and now now adults, now grown people, interact with each other.
Speaker 3:When you started bringing in texting Cause they'd say I can't say to you face to face what, what I can text you because I have the chance to think about it Exactly and I like type it out and I read it and then I delete it and then I retype it back out again. So it actually makes me scared to have just a conversation with you when I don't get the chance to edit, rewind, delete and do all that. So then we see more social anxiety coming out of that. But now, if you throw that into the therapy world of like, well, I'm getting, I'm getting what I think my needs are, Cause how often does somebody come in fully knowing what they need out of therapy.
Speaker 1:That's part of what therapy is about right. It's helping to create more insight. It's helping to create more awareness. It's helping to shed some light in some areas that you may not have turned your attention to.
Speaker 3:You know that's where that human interaction comes into play. How would you get Chachi PT to do that? You don't know me.
Speaker 1:You're not actually interacting with me. And then when I was like, oh, she just knows me so well, like that's the part that becomes scary. It's the amount of validation that you feel from your Chachi PT therapist, but not recognizing that I feel that validation because I'm prompting them to validate me in this way. Right.
Speaker 1:And they know nothing else but to validate me in the way that I'm prompting them. But when I remove that aspect of things, my therapist might not prompt me in that way. They might challenge me in ways that I actually need to be challenged. You're never going to hear chat GPT say that's horrible idea, Right, or that's, that's, that's bad, that's a bad thing to say or do Like. They'll never Chachi PT. Generally speaking, every time you put I use it all the time right, and every time you put something in there it's like that's a great idea.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's really well said, that's perfect, that's so true, chachi, pt you're so validating, but that's what it does, which is a very important part of our job. But, interestingly, one of the things that we have to be very, very I don't we have to be precise with is what we validate and what we don't validate, because I can validate your feelings about a situation, right, but I there are certain things I shouldn't be validating as fact, exactly Because I actually don't know. You're telling me a story from your perspective and I don't know, but I don't think Chachi VT is able to perspective take yet and go. Well, if I was hearing the other side of the story whereas what that's what we do in
Speaker 3:therapy. We're hearing your side of it, but we understand as human beings. There there are multiple, probably, narratives of what happened here and this is your narrative of it. But, yeah, that's when we might challenge it and go okay, so you're saying that they said this to you and they meant this. Well, tell me why you know that those words meant this, like the okay, what I was saying before. What's your? Yeah, what does that mean to you? What did you take away from that? Because are you sure that's what they meant? Because I use capital O and capital K on a regular basis and that's not what I mean.
Speaker 1:And that's part of our role. Right Is to, sort of like, add perspective to the equation, right? So what are other ways of looking at this? What are some other possibilities? What could the O and the K possibly have meant? Have they used that before in another context? Right, like it's shedding perspective on things which you don't get. All you'll get is that validation. And so, yeah, you're going to sit on camera with the tears in your eyes saying like you feel so validated, because that's what ChatGPT is designed to do is validate you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but also I'm thinking okay, so now ChatGPT is validating all the stuff that people should do, then they go out in the world and they continue acting in that way, and then they're not going to get good feedback from the rest of the world. That's a danger, right? So you're just going to keep encouraging yourself to keep interacting in this specific way.
Speaker 1:That's not working for you, and that in and of itself becomes its own again. Addiction right Because now I need to constantly get that validation. Chow Chupati knows a lot more about people than their partners probably do, right.
Speaker 3:Right, well, on that note, I'm hearing that that's also been a thing with AI. Is it becomes their partner?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not surprised because of how validating it is. Yes, right Like we can go deep in conversation. I can be honest with you, I can be transparent with you, I can be vulnerable with you. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And you'll still validate me yeah, cause you have no needs. Like honestly, it is easier to like. I think the the the happiest people are people who who find a partner who has very low needs, because that's what's actually exhausting in a relationship. But you talk about narcissism, like what are the odds that people in relationships with Chachapi are going to develop narcissistic traits because they're used to a world that just it's all about them? It's all about them doesn't have to be about the other person, and the fact that people feel good about that tells us what, to me, social media brought us to ai feeling very, very feeling very good, just to be endlessly validated and not have to deal with other people's stuff. You know.
Speaker 1:Wild, yeah. So there's dangers in it. There's benefits, but I feel like it's one of those things that we have to use with like discernment and discretion, because it could be very helpful. Social media, yeah, tools. It could be mental health tools.
Speaker 3:They're going to tell you. They're going to tell you all the tools and it's going to be very helpful If you do them. It will be helpful, Right, but where did those boundaries? But will they hold you accountable.
Speaker 1:Absolutely not. Come to my spot.
Speaker 3:Well, actually it's funny that accountability piece, because apparently that that's been another sort of conversation I haven't necessarily come across I that's been another sort of conversation. I haven't necessarily come across it. I think you said you hadn't come across it.
Speaker 3:Yes, you were talking about that. Yeah, there was. There was some kind of conversation going that you don't need therapy, you just need accountability. And again it's. I agree, accountability is actually one of the roles of what therapy provides. But like, who who's provide? Who's providing the accountability? If it's not therapy, who are you expecting? Oh, just hold yourself accountable.
Speaker 3:Well, you wouldn't be in you would have done that already, you know so this it does like often oversimplify the answer, and the thing that I worry about with that is the fact that what we know in our work is the answer is not simple, nor straightforward, nor easy. It's a lot of times there's these simplistic things that you could do that could really, really help, but they need to be done regularly, and they need to be done instead of some of the things that you're doing that aren't helping you. Like it's just, it is a lot more complicated than that, and I think that it'll send the message for 10 days and your anxiety will be gone.
Speaker 1:Right, there's so much more to it, yeah. There's so much more. There's so many nuances and levels and layers to it as well, too Right.
Speaker 3:Let alone trauma.
Speaker 1:Exactly, put that aside.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so love-hate relationship with it all. Yes, ma'am, one of my favorite trends that I saw and I saw it actually during COVID was take a picture of your kitchen right now. No delays, no angles, no, clean it up, just like. Show the reality of it. I thought wouldn't this be amazing if this like took off, but it hasn't? Have you seen like, thought wouldn't this be amazing if this like took off, but it hasn't? Have you?
Speaker 1:seen like let's show real pictures. No, everything. I see is like immaculate, like top tier. I haven't seen that.
Speaker 3:I haven't seen it either.
Speaker 1:And if I I mean if I do see that it's like it's like when I was TikTok videos where it's like come and reset my kitchen with me right, right, where it's like you actually see the end of it like and like, messed it up a bit, and then you're going through the process with it Right, but to like. Show us what the kitchen looks like in its raw state. Just sit with it and be there and accept it for being what it is. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That takes another level of vulnerability. Yeah and On social media no.
Speaker 3:And if not now like, do you know what I? Mean yeah. Like, if you think about how long social media has been around for now, and now you have AI in the picture like, are we moving closer Definitely not To genuineness, authenticity. You know, yeah, and I think that human connection, at the end of the day, what we do know from biology, what we know about evolution and how humans work, we need connection with each other.
Speaker 1:We're wired for connection Like we're not wired to live in silos. We're not wired to be independent or individuals Like we need that connection. Yeah. You know, we notice that when that's lacking, we feel it, but then again that's what social media is doing. It's sort of like creating this world that's shrinking and we're becoming more and more individualized and losing that human connection time and time again, and I think the worst part about it is it actually like it acts like human connection.
Speaker 3:It pretends to be human connection connection. It pretends to be human connection so it actually convinces people that they're feeling more connected, when the reality, what we know, why depression is on the rise, why anxiety is on the rise, is actually because of the lack of connection. I mean, if you look at pretty much any book on the topic, it is going to be stressing how our support network, the people in our lives, other human beings, are absolutely foundational to our well-being.
Speaker 1:Yet we're not seeing that show up in how we interact with people. We're not seeing that, and it becomes harder to do that too. Right, the more that we remove ourselves from human connection, the more that we remove ourselves from what was at one point perhaps social norms of connections, and I know COVID obviously had a huge impact on that as well too.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, yeah when we?
Speaker 1:were having to live in silos. We were removing ourselves from these things.
Speaker 3:And we saw the mental health toll that took.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and so if that was a snapshot of our experiences and that sort of has maintained and become the new norm for many people. Yeah. We can only imagine when that's doing mental health wise for life folks when that becomes their way of living. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so if anybody wants to know, like, at the end of the day, what is the solution to it, it is becoming more aware of your usage, right? Be conscious about how often you're on there. Take breaks from it. Ask yourself, like, what would it mean to be a bit more authentic in my own social media? Or look at it critically. Use your critical thinking when you're looking at it going, I think, just in casual conversations with friends we've we've all just kind of and I don't know if you've noticed this, we've never had this conversation, but I just happened to notice that the most over the top partners on social media like my partner is the best.
Speaker 3:Look at the flowers, all that. If you actually know them and you know what's going on behind the scenes, you're like that is not. What reality are we living in right now? Right, like they're on the verge of whatever you know, like it's actually not going that well. And so you, you, it creates this very strange world that you're living in, where you might want that. But my husband always makes the joke. He's like I don't often like go over the top in these expressions Cause I don't need to make up to you for anything, but if I did. It's so true, jamie's, like I don't feel this urge to tell the whole world how great I think you are.
Speaker 3:Because I do it in the day-to-day of our lives and I'm always like, please don't, I don't need that.
Speaker 1:It makes you wonder, what then? The motivation is sometimes right when you do see that over the top piece. It's like what are we overcompensating for, or what void are we trying to fill by doing this Meanwhile?
Speaker 3:people looking at will sometimes start going well. My relationship must not be that great because my partner is not writing that about me on social media. Meanwhile, it turns out you actually have at least just the better communication, less fighting, not on the verge of potential separation, and that goes back to our point earlier the comparison and the dangers of comparison, because you don't know what reality is if you're just basing it on social media.
Speaker 1:So that's where that comparison becomes so deadly and dangerous. Yeah Right, Because it's not. It's completely curated. It's completely filtered. It's not a reflection of the reality of any individual, and so how do I use this as, perhaps, awareness insight, but I'm not taking this as fact.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, yeah, exactly. And also also like how can I, what else could I do instead of this right now? What, actually? I did this really cool thing once and it was about how to get into the state of flow. Um, and what they talked about actually is that there's a whole cycle involved in getting into flow and just before you hit the flow state is boredom and how there's a problem that if you have your cell phone available to you all the time, you actually get in the way of ever getting to flow state Cause the second you feel that feeling. You pick up your phone and the whole cycle starts all over again and you have to go through the whole process all over again and then you have to override that boredom feeling and that's why people aren't experiencing the beautiful state of flow, which is absolutely. Time disappears. You're just like in the moment. It's like a beautiful feeling and people can't get into it anymore.
Speaker 1:It's so funny because I think my kids right when they get bored I'm like, yes, that's great, Love it, Like when you're the child of a therapist.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh my gosh. Yes, yes, same my response from my kids, like I'm bored, I'm like good, it's very healthy for you to get in the flow we want to be bored.
Speaker 1:They hate that, yeah they do they hate it. It's like that's where we're at, that's like the place that we want to get into our creativity. And to allow that creativity to flow, we get to use our imagination in different ways, like you don't want to quench the boredom. It's not one of those things. We want to embrace it and allow it to get into the flow of it.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, because what people don't understand is that boredom will just be easier to get into. The more you try to quench, the boredom it'll instead it used to take me 10 minutes to get bored. Now it just takes me five minutes to get bored Again. Back to TikTok, those videos they're. They're literally measuring people's attention spans.
Speaker 1:The research has shown our attention span is significantly shorter than what it used to be, and now we're watching things on like two X speed because it's taken too long. It's a 30 second video, but you're watching it on two X speed.
Speaker 3:So, and and what does that mean? If you're telling me a story, how engaged am I going to say, mean if you're?
Speaker 1:telling me a story. How engaged am I going to say if you're telling me a story and it's going a little slow, that's hard.
Speaker 3:How do I 2X her Trying to find my phone right? Like people are going to lose that human connection. So I think we just need to use it wisely. I love social media for a lot of things. I will never completely go off of social media entirely, but I use it in a very conscious way. But I use it in a very in a very conscious way If someone posts something. This might be if someone posts something that I'm just like I don't need that in my life. I don't need that message in my life. I don't need that information in my life. I'm like unfollow. I just I can't have a newsfeed of people who are going to be posting things, and so a lot of mine is very much like I don't know. I like what I see on social media because I, anytime I feel bad, I'm just like I don't, I don't want to engage in that.
Speaker 1:That's such a good point, Cause I feel like we under use a lot of the features that social media has. Right, it's like I don't have to watch everything. I can snooze. I can mute, I can unfollow.
Speaker 3:You don't have to unfriend, because I know that has consequences.
Speaker 1:Exactly I can use timers right now. There's like timers where it's like okay, you've. You said you want to be on here for an hour. Your hour is up now. Yeah. But it's like all those features can really help us to maintain our mental health, but still have one foot in the water if we want to still Cause you can feel like you're completely out of the loop.
Speaker 3:I understand I wanted to get off Facebook at one point, but then I was like literally my community that's the only way I know what's going on. It'll be like there's a fire at house, you know what I mean Like that actually legitimately happened. I didn't know except for the social media posts about it. So so it does make you feel like in that way it made me feel connected. But you have to be careful you're not replacing it with your actual friendships, interactions with others.
Speaker 3:And one way you'll know is if you start feeling more stressed having those interactions, if you find yourself avoiding them more, that you're like, oh, so-and-so invited me out to see a movie, but you know, I'm not, I I don't know, I don't want to, and it's like, okay, is it cause you've been very social lately? And if the answer is no, that's not why I've actually been very isolated lately and you're being invited out to see a movie and you don't want to, that's going to be a sign.
Speaker 1:That's a sign. And how do I? How do I feel when I'm not engaging in it? Right Do? I find that, like a certain I you know I was I was thinking of um, like some clients clients I work with right when it's like they know that certain periods of time is when the anxiety increases right.
Speaker 1:And it's like in those moments is when I go and reach for my phone. So it's like the same is true when it comes to any other form of addiction where it's like you have to know for yourself what are those hotspots. When is it that I find that I'm so drawn to my phone?
Speaker 1:because, I need to be on social media in this moment. What is it that draws me to it? Is it stress? Is that where the doom scrolling comes into play? But even knowing yourself enough to know that like this is when I'm inclined to get on the phone and to be scrolling nonstop, because it's a form of avoidance, because it helps you to feel better, or whatever the case is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, be aware how you're using it. It's funny because I think everyone should try this where, as soon as they get home from work, put your phone somewhere away, Commit just to like one evening of not touching your phone but note how many times either your hand or you think about it or you think I really you know, because for me, anytime I have a curiosity, I'm like where's my phone?
Speaker 1:Let me grab my phone. Who is that actor? What have?
Speaker 3:they been in? Where have I seen them before? It's so automatic, yeah, it's so automatic. But also and this is how I knew I had a problem was like oh, there's a slow period in this movie. Let's just see what's happening on Facebook.
Speaker 1:Are you watching? Me with the kids. Like I can't. I can't. I mean, yeah, that's when I'm like no, where's my phone? I'm not, I'm not watching this movie. I've seen it. They've watched it three times. Where's my phone? That's fair. Thank you. Thank you for validating me Chat GPT I appreciate you.
Speaker 3:But yes, I mean that is valid, I got to say, but if you're watching a movie you've never seen before and there's just like a scene where you're just like, okay, you know, I'm going too slow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not engaged, I'm bored.
Speaker 3:Yes, and that again you do it for one night and you will develop so much self-awareness of what your habits are, including how often your partner goes to tell you something. My husband might be annoyed with this if he listens to it, but, like sometimes, he wants to tell me about hockey Right, and I try to care. There you go. I do my best, but there does get to be a point where I'm like we're about 10 minutes into this conversation, do we feel like that was enough.
Speaker 3:And then I I can feel this like where's my phone? I want to grab my phone and that's so rude. It's so rude. And if you were to ask your partner how many times when you're talking to me, do I pick up my phone and just start half listening to you? And how does that make you feel? I guarantee you, you will. You will get a response that will be I don't like it. Even if they do it to you, by the way, even if they do it to you, because we do we all do it to each other.
Speaker 1:It's a different experience, right it's? Even when you're doing it, but when you're the one who it's being done to, I could possibly grab my phone right now. You'd be like oh did I bore you.
Speaker 3:That's what it feels like. It feels like I just bored you right there, when really it could just be. They heard that like vibrate and they know that they're waiting for someone, or you know what I mean Like it's not always boredom, but it's pretty much what it feels like.
Speaker 1:But you can interpret it that way, right, and that's sometimes the way it goes, yeah, so everybody should try it the whole night.
Speaker 3:Check it out, see how many times Self-aware.
Speaker 1:Be mindful just notice, mindful.
Speaker 3:And notice how it makes you feel when you're on it. You know or if you take a break from it, because I know all of the studies are 100% on the same page that when people are asked how do you feel after taking this break from your phone, better Research isn't always like that strong. We know that for something to be statistically significant, it just be like slightly more than average statistically significant, it just be like slightly more than average. But, like some research will show us really strong information about how, yeah, everybody feels better when they're on their phone.
Speaker 1:Positive outcomes that come with it, but we never get to knowing that because we never actually do it no and so challenge accepted, okay, let's all do it, let's practice it, but I love the idea of just being mindful yeah being aware, using these things in moderation, which is important. It's not a bad thing. It's a tool, yeah, and let's use it as that and remind ourselves. That's just what it is yeah, a tool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love it, me too. Great chat, yay, okay, well, I think that wraps it up for today. Love it.
