The MindSpa Podcast
The MindSpa Podcast is your go-to space for meaningful conversations around mental health, healing, and personal growth. Hosted by Michelle Massunken RSW and Tina Wilston RP, co-founders of MindSpa Mental Health Centre, each episode explores key mental health topics through expert interviews and thoughtful roundtable discussions.
From managing stress and building stronger relationships to navigating invisible challenges, the MindSpa Podcast offers grounded, professional insights in a warm and accessible way. Tune in weekly for supportive, real-world conversations to help you feel seen, supported, and empowered on your wellness journey.
The MindSpa Podcast
Ep 7 Fear sells, but at what price to our wellbeing?
Truth has never been more accessible—or more elusive. In this revealing exploration of misinformation and disinformation, we unpack how the content flooding our feeds affects more than just our beliefs—it's transforming our mental health, relationships, and communities.
The distinction is crucial: misinformation spreads without malicious intent (like your well-meaning relative forwarding questionable health advice), while disinformation deliberately misleads to achieve specific goals. Most troubling are conspiracy theories, specifically engineered to provoke fear when we're most vulnerable to manipulation.
Our conversation travels through the COVID-19 pandemic's information landscape, where shifting guidelines around masking created perfect conditions for division. We examine how these information disorders fracture relationships—conversations between loved ones become battlegrounds when algorithms have already separated us into opposing realities.
When are we most susceptible? Fear and vulnerability open the door to misinformation, but surprisingly, positive emotions like excitement can make us just as likely to share unverified content. We confess our own misinformation mishaps and share practical strategies for protecting your mental wellbeing: diversify information sources, scrutinize language choices, consider who benefits from a narrative's spread, and recognize your vulnerable moments.
The episode concludes with a thoughtful exploration of burnout versus everyday stress, highlighting that information overload itself contributes to our collective exhaustion. How do you distinguish genuine burnout from just having a tough morning? The answer might surprise you.
What information shapes your reality? How might your media consumption be affecting your relationships and mental health? Join us for this essential conversation about navigating truth in divided times.
Hey friends, welcome back for another episode. We are diving deep today, so we're going to talk specifically about misinformation and disinformation and how some of the information we take in online can really have an impact on our mental health and our wellbeing, and so I'm excited to get into it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I mean, the statistic that I saw said that 70% of Canadians are exposed to disinformation every single day and, honestly, the first thought that I had was who's the other 30% and how are they avoiding it, although you, you sort of said what is the 70%. So I'm kind of curious about your experience of it. How do you protect yourself?
Speaker 1:from it From disinformation? Yeah, I don't, I don't. I'm not a big news person. I was. Yeah, but I think, especially during COVID, when there was, like this inundation of like mood, not mood, well, yeah, it impacted the mood, right, but of news, I think I really took a break from watching the news and I haven't returned to it since, and so that means all formats of the news then.
Speaker 2:So like like social media news, news headlines, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:I don't, I don't take it in. I don't take it in and I don't know, like I. For me it's almost like what that could be information that is helpful, but then again, if it's all disinformation or if there's a lot of misinformation in there, then is it actually helpful? Yeah, and so I really haven't found the need to take in the news, and I get a lot of it from just conversations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you hear what's up. I hear about it. It's guilty. I might be telling you Thanks, sita I. I might be telling you.
Speaker 1:Thanks, sita, I'm like, you are my CNN. I get a lot of news from just conversations and I'm like, oh, what's happening, I did not know about that, tell me more. And so with that I'm able to really just like filter what I take in, because I find it can really get me going at times right, it's like the loss of control just feels like intense. Right, you know, and nobody wants to feel like they have no control over anything but, the news will do that to you it will well, yeah, yeah, because it's global.
Speaker 2:And so the second it's global. If you don't live in that country you have, you can't vote so now. Can you define for us the difference? Yeah, this is a really, really important distinction, like dis, misinformation, conspiracy theories, so define those for us.
Speaker 1:So misinformation one of them. It's between disinformation and misinformation, there's intentionality. Okay, so with misinformation, it's important to recognize that there is no intent to provide false information. Okay, so this is like your auntie sending you this blog or this WhatsApp message that's being forwarded a hundred times over where they're talking about. You know, putting an onion in the corner can help cure you from whatever.
Speaker 2:That's misinformation, but there's no one to help you. Actually, I'm actually trying to help you.
Speaker 1:And so that's misinformation, where there is no intention in spreading false information, okay, whereas with the disinformation, there's intentionality behind it. Okay, I'm intentionally telling you that this information is true, knowing very well that there is no truth to this, or very little truth to it.
Speaker 2:Or it's like an angle Exactly it's singular angle, exactly it's specific. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so that's where the misinformation and the disinformation come into play. Which? Is important to distinguish. Yeah, I forgot what conspiracy was.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I mean, I think at the end of the day, on the conspiracy side of it is, there is a very strong intent to create fear, right? Yes, right, like that's how you'll know. And that can be misinformation or disinformation. At the end of the day can be fear-based, but again there'd still be a distinction between the intent. So you could be misinformation it feels scary, but there's actually no intent behind it. And then there can be disinformation that's not intended to be scary, so it's not stoking fears, it's just not correct. And then there's conspiracy, where the whole thing is structured in order to really foster a sense of fear.
Speaker 1:I think those are definitely important distinctions between them. Yeah, and just recognizing. Okay, sometimes a source, like a new source, could be a bit of both yeah, right, where there could be a bit of both or a little bit of all three and they're mixed up all together and there's some intention behind it. And other times they're just kind of sharing what they know and that's what it is, and later on we find out, okay, well, that wasn't a hundred percent true, you know, and so it's. It's important to recognize these things, which is why we're talking about it, because it can really affect our mental health.
Speaker 2:It can really affect our emotional wellbeing if we're not careful and if we don't clearly define what these things are about as well. Yeah Well, you know what it made me think of too. It also can really negatively impact relationships. Oh yeah, because ultimately, if you have two people sort of discussing their stance on a situation and let's let's, for argument's sake, say they've both been exposed to disinformation, but with different people who were speaking it, so they had actually different intents for harm, both intents for harm, but maybe on opposite sides of things and then you have those two people really only getting exposed to that information and now they're trying to have a conversation and you can just imagine the divide that it creates. And that's the thing, I think, that we're just seeing a lot In the media right now. It is very divisive, the intent does seem to divide people and it's very effective.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's working. It's very effective. It's in what it's intended to do. Yeah, and's working Very effective. Yeah, do what's intended to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we know the importance of community in mental health, and so if your community, like your family, your friends and all of that, are getting divided on all of these different topics, the community is being fragmented at that point in time, right.
Speaker 1:Not only is it affecting us as individuals and our individual wellbeing, but where we would go to for support is also now being impacted because of the different views, or because of the different perspectives or information and how that's being digested as well too, and we're seeing that quite a bit.
Speaker 2:And then you'll see people who start fracturing off and maybe spending more time with people who believe the same disinformation. And, to be really clear, we're not saying it's all disinformation or even like it's just when it is right. And so they're gravitating towards the same people who believe the same things. And now we have an echo chamber.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, right, and I think knowing that is important, right, because there's that beauty in diversifying it as well too. Right, like you don't have to have the same perspectives or even the same views, whether politically, like in any aspect. I think that there's so much ways that those elements of diversity can challenge us, even if we're believing one thing, through disinformation or another. I think being able to recognize that that echo chamber can really be persistent if we're not mindful of that. But how do I now create that diversity in my thoughts?
Speaker 1:in my views, in my values, and how do we now grow from those different ways of looking at things and the diversity that it brings us as well, which isn't always an easy thing to do?
Speaker 2:No, but it's so important in the sense of being able to connect to other people. I always think that you know, when it comes to any communication, if you're disagreeing about anything. If you can start with, well, what actually do we agree about? Because if you took religion, as spicy as the conversation around religion could get, if you all started with, what do we all agree?
Speaker 1:with the core values that we all Right, what does?
Speaker 2:every Bible, everybody's version of the Bible or version of that type of stuff, say in common. You're starting to realize, oh wow, there's more that brings us together than divides us.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yet that's not a part of misinformation. Do you know what I mean Exactly? That's when you know if it's communication that's meant to unite, inherently, it doesn't end up being disinformation, exactly Because there's no intent to cause harm, right information. Exactly Because there's no intent to cause harm, right I? You know me what I remember, and it was such a visceral, strange experience, during COVID specifically, and mask wearing. So what I remember was I remember the first time I walked into a grocery store and I saw someone wearing what looked like a mask you might wear if you're a painter.
Speaker 2:Okay, those white ones, oh, those ones, yeah, with the filters, like it was this full thing, and at this point nobody's wearing masks, just keeping in mind, so this looks very out of place. But they have started the whole like six feet apart piece. They have started kind of some distancing, because I also remember there being arrows on remember the aisles?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the directional arrows.
Speaker 2:Yeah and that. And so I remember seeing that and I was thinking that's scary. That was my first response is like this is very disconcerting to see this, yeah, Right. And then the narrative started to change not long after that, where it was like it is a very good idea to wear masks, Right? And so then you start seeing pretty much everybody's wearing a mask and that's where the divide like a crazy divide started, right. But there was this again this the good people are wearing masks, and then you have the anti-maskers or the anti-vaxxers and they're the bad people.
Speaker 2:And it created this. Like you're in this environment, there's this visual representation of who believes what I believe, who's on my team and who's not on my team, and it created like a really unpleasant divide, right. And then that went on for however long, and then there was this weird like transition I don't know if you remember where it's like you don't really need to wear them anymore. It was kind of 50, 50 walk into the store and you're like 50% of people are wearing them and 50% or not. But at this point it's created such a divide. I would see people actively like if they saw someone wearing a mask and they weren't wearing theirs, they would try to step close to them.
Speaker 2:Like they would try to agitate the person wearing the mask, because there there had just been so much. You me, I'm I'm a conscientious person. You're not a, you know. It just created this, this, this crazy divide, and then it transitioned to okay, it's time to take the mask off what's wrong with you? Why are you not? Wasn't that weird?
Speaker 1:that's a whole three, six when you think about it. And then nowadays, when you see like a few people wearing a mask, you're just like why are you wearing a mask? Right, you're outside.
Speaker 2:Why are you wearing a mask?
Speaker 1:But that's the power of like information, though right, like all of the different transitions and phases that we went to from like seeing that odd one person who's wearing a mask to that one person who's unmasked, to that person now who's still wearing a mask, to that person now who's still wearing a mask. Those pieces, like our perspective of every single one of those phases, has been influenced and impacted by what we're taking in.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and some of it influenced by mis- and disinformation?
Speaker 1:Yeah Right. And so that's where, again, recognizing the power that it has, not just in terms of, like, how we're thinking and feeling, but in the doing, yeah. You know and how we're living our lives on a regular basis and how we're perceiving other people, and I'm sure you talked about the family divides. I'm sure those things had a huge impact.
Speaker 2:Christmas dinners.
Speaker 1:Thanksgiving dinners.
Speaker 2:Are we masking? Are we not masking?
Speaker 1:Who's in your bubble? All of those things.
Speaker 2:A term.
Speaker 1:I think such a weird term who's in your bubble?
Speaker 2:I remember we had a big joke because I think you could only do 10 people at one point, and we're a family of six and we're like. And we had a friends next to us who are a family of five or something and we're like so we can't hang out unless we like leave someone in the backyard because ultimately, we're only ever around each other at this point. It was just kind of that point where, like you weren't at school, you were not where, nobody was anything.
Speaker 1:I'm like all of us, exactly we're basically one.
Speaker 2:I'm like how is it that 10 people from different households they're allowed to hang out, but our two households they're saying you know, over capacity, yeah, yeah, and then it created again. Well, why are you choosing if you're going to spend time with people? I'm, we're a single income family and for us it was at a time where it was like if anybody in our household had a cough, I couldn't go into work and I was like I can't, I have four kids. Somebody's gonna have a call, even if it's just do you know if it's just a head cold or whatever, and I was like I can't. Actually I have have to be more careful than individuals that maybe have jobs that are fully remote.
Speaker 1:They have that flexibility.
Speaker 2:They could have a cough and their kid could have a cough.
Speaker 1:They could still go into work. Or there's two people that are working or we don't have like oh, you don't go into work, you still get paid, like that's not really the situation at the time, right, yeah, yeah, that's wild, and I think those are the things that, again, we take into consideration and some people don't take into consideration, which is where that creates that divisiveness or that you know the friction in a lot of ways as well too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, have you ever sort of like had any, what you would call maybe more misinformation like affected you personally? Misinformation like affected you personally?
Speaker 1:I think so. I'm just trying to think of an example, but I think that, especially during COVID, I find that misinformation can affect me more, so when I feel more vulnerable. Okay, right, when I feel more vulnerable, that's when I'm like okay, well, tell me what to do. Like, what is it that I need to do to make sure that?
Speaker 1:I don't catch COVID or that I'm not in that position, whatever the case is. And so I think that again, especially when you're getting it from someone who you trust or somebody who you value, then you think that, okay, well, they have good intentions. Again, there's no intent behind misinformation. And so if they're sharing this with me, if they're forwarding this to me or whatever the case is, and they're probably looking out for my best interests and I should take this in, and so I think that's where I find just even screening becomes important. If I'm more vulnerable, more susceptible, that misinformation can go a very long way.
Speaker 2:Good point when are we more susceptible?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, interestingly, when we're scared Exactly yeah, yeah, that's such a you know and and that I think that speaks to why disinformation is so dangerous, or even conspiracy theories are dangerous is because you're using fear at a time in which people are more vulnerable to fear-based information.
Speaker 1:And so it puts them at a much higher risk to be receptive and to even act on the disinformation or the misinformation based on where they're at and what's going on for them as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, for whatever reason. I think of COVID too, in the sense of misinformation, where I think there were things that they found out later, like they were saying one thing because I think they didn't really know how it was being spread at first. So it was like no, you don't need to mask or or you need to clean your your groceries. People are like disinfecting their groceries.
Speaker 1:Going to the garage with Lysol wipes cleaning the cans off yeah, that feels like a movie.
Speaker 2:It does, and somebody, yes, and somebody else's life. But I don't think that was ever disinformed. I don't think there was no intent to harm in that situation. I think that was very much like yeah, just we don't know. So we're going to take this utmost caution, or I think they had to be careful too, if we don't have the supply of masks, if everybody's going to mask that. There was this weird time where I think there was a bit of messaging of like you don't need that, but it was kind of like because we need them in the hospitals, not because you don't actually need them, like if you're social distancing, you don't need them.
Speaker 2:But also I think there was a lot of pushback on that in the sense of and now we're getting into COVID, but I guess because it's such on topic, Especially when you talk about misinformation and disinformation.
Speaker 1:That's probably the biggest moments that you can see both of them alive and well in terms of, like, what's being put out there, what's being shared, because, again, it's a moment where, literally, the blind leading the blind, like nobody, knew what to do in those moments, and so there was no like oh we've been here before type of experience.
Speaker 1:It's like no, we're all figuring it out at the same time and so you're going to get information that is on the spectrum of like misinformation, disinformation, conspiracies are going to be flying left, right and center because it's a new experience for everybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And I think that ever since then, I mean we're still affected by what happened there and how. I think we started engaging in media then because, at the end of the day, we had a lot of time on our hands, because we couldn't get together and we couldn't do things and the culture had really shifted off of like phone calls with people.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. And so what did fill that time? That used to be social gatherings like talking to people and all that kind of stuff. I think it was more media consumption.
Speaker 1:That the connection. It became our outlet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and I think we're still seeing reverberations of that in the youth in particular, and you know you. Then what's the impact on myths and disinformation on young folk who might not not that they don't, it's just we know that that there's stages in our lives where we are more susceptible to not not even myths or disinformation, but we're like a more easily influenced. That's what it is Right, like we just we can be influenced more easily and so, yeah, what does that mean for the youth that are constantly kind of getting exposure to all of that and the algorithm piece to it? Right, because we know that the more you engage in certain content, it's just going to keep bringing you more of the same content. We're talking about echo chamber before right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so that I mean that speaks to the risks right and how do we sort of mitigate those risks?
Speaker 2:How do?
Speaker 1:we and what does that look like and I think this comes up a lot in in like even therapy settings.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like. So how do I mitigate the risks, whether youth, adult, older adults, whatever the case is, but mitigating the risks of disinformation on our emotional well-being, on our mental health as well? Yeah, I think that there is a. It's about striking a balance between, like I'm going to, I want to stay informed, yeah Right, I don't want to be as much as ignorance is bliss. I don't want to stay under a rock, but how does that look like for me? And so for me personally, it's like engaging in conversations right, it's engaging in conversations.
Speaker 1:My husband's a big news, like he's always taking in the news.
Speaker 2:And so.
Speaker 1:I feel like he takes it enough for all of us Yep. So if we need to live in a bunker, we will like if there's something happening, I will know about it. In that sense, there. He often does tell me oh, did you hear about this? I'm like no, you know, I didn't hear about it. Please break it down. Enlighten me. Enlighten me.
Speaker 2:Share what you know. Well, yeah, and I mean I think another one and it is funny is like is fact check, fact check before you share it, right, like maybe, maybe see if this is like, where are you getting this information? Even checking you know the opposite viewpoint and checking in what is what is the opposite viewpoint? And checking in what is what is the opposite viewpoint on this, because very often if you get two things that are very opposite, you can kind of find what you believe somewhere in the middle. I was guilty I have been guilty of spreading misinformation. There was, there was like rumor that a show was going to come back. I can't remember what show it was, but it was a really good one. I was like, oh no, it was, it was, but it was really good one. Oh, I was like, oh no, it was, it was. They were gonna redo the golden girls with, like Tina Fey, like like these Saturday Night Live, like brilliant, like comedic actresses.
Speaker 1:I was like I am down for that show. Where'd you hear that online?
Speaker 2:and I was like, oh my god, look at this show, yeah, and then, and then I got a few like that's not real. And and I was like in my excitement. Actually it's funny because we were talking about fear and how that can be the motor, but also excitement and happiness can also be the like spreader of misinformation, cause it's like I'm so excited about this, it's so embarrassing. It was like, oh man, I didn't think to know that it's not a dangerous thing to not fact check, but like it catches you again where you're like, oh right, I should probably check the facts on this one. Check the facts.
Speaker 1:That's a really good point and even I like the idea that you mentioned of like what are the other perspectives or sources?
Speaker 2:saying about this Right.
Speaker 1:So if I know that one news medium, you know, swings one way, what are the other? Ones saying about this, and how does that getting in that perspective create?
Speaker 2:that balance for me to have a full perspective versus just being one-sided. Yeah, because one of the quotes and I'm going to give a great shout out to my husband and not throw him under the bus, because I apparently did before and I didn't mean to but one of my favorite sort of sayings that he says because he's a big history, loves stuff about history. But the history books were written by the victors, right? And so I think that when you know that okay, that is going to frame this entire narrative, right, just knowing that alone, who's framing the narrative and why, what's their intent, how does this benefit them can change just how you consume it. It doesn't mean you're going to believe it more, not believe it more, but you're going to be looking at it just through that lens of like, who's saying it and why?
Speaker 1:And that's always the question like who is the who? Yeah, like who is the person, like what? Because that's going to impact how I interpret this information. It's going to impact the tone, yep of the information, like that's a huge part of the misinformation or the disinformation. It's like yeah, who's? This person, yeah, and what do I need to know about them to make this narrative make sense?
Speaker 2:yeah, you know, I remember I was really curious about a certain country and its history of conflict with other countries, and so I ended up on Wikipedia I love Wikipedia and I ended up there, sort of like, and I was reading through and it's kind of putting the date, putting the country, putting the and then the victor. And this is what was so interesting, because just the it was just based on the one country, so they were either the victor or the loser in it and how they framed it. And I was like, oh, that's really interesting because you're deciding that they're on the right side of it. Then, by calling them the victor, you're implying that they were the. If there's a good side and a bad side, this country was always on the good side. I'm like, maybe, I don't know, maybe.
Speaker 2:But also I would say that those other countries might be like I don't know that. I would say that we were the aggressors in that situation. Yet somehow we are. You know, we're not the victors in it, even though, like, we won that war but we're not the victors Perspective.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everything.
Speaker 2:And so it made me really curious. I get really curious about that stuff, though, like for me, I'm always like, hmm, that's really interesting how they worded that, even the language. That's another thing that we see a lot right.
Speaker 2:Is like you chose to use this very specific language to describe the situation. That was not neutral. It was already one-sided and biased. Yeah, yeah, you know, if you, I'm trying to think, I can't think of a word. That's not. I don't want to like, yeah, be controversial, so, but like there's just certain words that you choose to use that are either going to like kind of inflame things or give you that perspective of who the good guy in the situation is, who the bad guy in the situation is.
Speaker 1:So that's another great way to identify a miss or disinformation.
Speaker 2:It's like what's the language that's being used Is the language really steering towards one side one direction.
Speaker 1:Is it neutral language? Right, but I think those are some of the ways that we can, because we don't always know whether it's misinformation or dis, but it's like again, looking at the language that's being used is a great. It's a helpful telltale sign of where and what this information really is about.
Speaker 2:I know. I've always thought like if two people on the opposite side of things are both saying the same thing, you're probably pretty fact-based there.
Speaker 1:We know we're good. Yeah, we're good. Cover both bases yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I don't know, do we want to transition maybe into some questions in our like another segment? You know some questions that we have got from. I actually need to just pull some up here. You thinking of, like the listener questions. Yeah, let's do that, okay. Ooh, I like this one. Okay, so you're starting? Nope, not starting. You're staring. You're staring at your inbox paralyzed with overwhelm, but it's only 10 am. Oh boy, okay. How do you distinguish burnout from just a bad day?
Speaker 1:Ah, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good one. I think that's. I think the distinction is around like the overwhelm right that you're feeling in the moment in that space, especially with it being like a 10 am, you're staying at your inbox. The feeling of overwhelm is already in place. Yeah, I think that's a telltale sign of burnout in a lot of ways. Right the things that I would normally be able to sort of like jump in and do.
Speaker 2:Because it's an everyday thing. It's an everyday thing, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but when it comes up every day it feels like water off the deck's back. Yeah, I'm able to sort of just like jump in, do it pace myself, you know, maybe check a few here and there. Whereas sometimes the burnout makes it feel a little bit sticky, it doesn't really roll off the back the same way. You know and I think that that's what this poster is recognizing Like I can do this. I usually do this every day, but now it feels much different. It's harder, for some reason, today than it is on other days. I think those are important telltale signs. What?
Speaker 2:are your thoughts? Well, my thought too is okay. If you're feeling overwhelmed at 10 AM. I'd be really curious when you open those beautiful eyes, when you're either alarm went off or it was time to get up in the morning. How did you feel? Yeah, because I find you know, burnout a pretty big telltale sign is, no matter how much sleep I got, if I if I don't remember tossing turn, I don't remember getting up all night, but I woke up eight hours later and I'm like exhausted. Yeah, I got no energy. I'm dragging myself out of bed, particularly if I took nothing to help me sleep, cause sometimes that legit can happen when it's not burnout, but you like took melatonin to sleep and now you're waking up, dragging. But if it's just kind of like, no matter how much sleep I get, you still don't feel rested and restored.
Speaker 2:I still don't feel rested. And restored, I mean, we have to distinguish between depression as well, which can actually be hard to tell.
Speaker 1:So I do want to be really clear there's lots of overlap. I think there is a lot of overlap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely yeah, I mean chicken egg too, right, right, right. So, burnout is real.
Speaker 1:Burnout is real. Yeah, and it. Burnout is real, and it's probably one of the things that we don't talk about enough, and I think it's important to realize. Or we normalize, we normalize. It seems to be okay, but yet we don't talk about, like, what do we do when we burn out?
Speaker 2:We know the what, but not the how. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's a challenge. It's like, okay, what is burnout, what does it look like? But then, so what do I do? Do I check the email? What do I need to do in those moments? But I think, like you said, it shows up before you got to the inbox. It shows up before that conversation. That's not going to be your first clue. It's not.
Speaker 2:No, that would be strange. Like it's not burnout, if that's your first clue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sort of the difference.
Speaker 2:But I think actually, interestingly, we're talking about how it's normalized while at the same time we don't talk about it. But at the same time, there's this I am noticing and and of course we we're going to speak about this a thousand times about, like the role of media and social media in it is that also have people using it where it's like no, that's not burnout, right, like, oh, I'm so burnt out because I like played golf and then I do. You know what I mean? Um, let's say, then I went out to the movies with my friends and then I had a nice dinner out and I'm like so burnt out. It's like well, no, it's a long day. Yeah, that's a long day.
Speaker 2:You got a busy life, I think like hustle culture and like being busy all the time and all that. But that is inherently different from burnout. Similar to like I feel anxious when I'm doing something anxiety provoking, versus I have an anxiety disorder and so burnout is real. Well, at the same time, you have to watch that you're not just calling a busy week. I'm burnt out.
Speaker 1:I mean it could lead to that if that's your norm and you consistently do that, but definitely not the definition or how burnout shows up. You know, being busy is much different than that feeling.
Speaker 2:It doesn't make sense it's like, based on everything I'm doing, I shouldn't feel this way. Whereas, like what might just be, I'm really busy and I maybe need to make some different life choices.
Speaker 2:Like I need to slow down, I need to not overschedule myself, and then I'm going to feel better. But what you'll notice with burnout is like you stop doing all things and you're like and that I'm going to feel better. But what you'll notice with burnout is like you stop doing all things and you're like I still don't feel better, Like you can burn out your adrenal glands Literally burn out.
Speaker 2:Literally, they no longer function and send the adrenaline that you need in order to like, function and get stuff done. Your cortisol levels are through the roof. So yeah, huge distinction Very important.
Speaker 1:That's a really good question. It is a good question. I love when the questions come in Me too, yes, and so if you are out there and you have a question that you want us to address and to talk about, please do send it in to us. We are more than happy to address these questions, and the funny thing is that they're so relatable. Yeah, you know, they're ones that everyone can relate to. It speaks to everyone, so you'll see the email in our show notes where you can send those questions. Well, thanks for listening and we'll see you the next episode.
