S2 · Ep 27: Financial Anxiety — Why We Avoid Money And What Clarity Can Change | Melany Goodhue | The MindSpa Podcast

Money avoidance does not make financial stress disappear. In many cases, uncertainty can make money feel even more overwhelming.

In this episode of The MindSpa Podcast, Tina Wilston and Michelle Massunken are joined by Melany Goodhue, Certified Financial Planner® and Founder and CEO of Pulse Wealth Management, for a thoughtful conversation about money, financial anxiety, and the emotional patterns that can shape the way we manage our finances.

The conversation explores why people may avoid looking closely at debt, spending, savings, retirement, insurance, or their overall financial picture. Melany discusses how anxiety, shame, embarrassment, and uncertainty can contribute to procrastination around money, including for successful professionals who feel confident in other areas of their lives.

They also look at why earning more does not automatically create a sense of financial security. From behavioural finance and emotional spending to putting off important decisions, the episode explores how our beliefs and habits around money can influence financial wellbeing.

Comparison also plays a role. Social media and the pressure to keep up with other people’s lifestyles can make it difficult to know whether financial decisions are actually aligned with our own priorities. Melany explains why having a clearer understanding of cash flow, debt, pensions, insurance, benefits, investments, and long-term goals can help replace uncertainty with a more complete financial picture.

The conversation also turns to money within relationships, including what can happen when one partner tends to save while the other is more comfortable spending. Tina, Michelle, and Melany explore the importance of transparency, communication, and understanding the meaning that money can carry within a relationship.

Melany also discusses different forms of financial support, including financial coaching, credit counselling, and comprehensive financial planning with a Certified Financial Planner, as well as how the type of support someone needs may change depending on their circumstances and stage of life.

The episode closes with a discussion of common questions and assumptions around investing, debt, and retirement.

About Melany Goodhue

Melany Goodhue is a Certified Financial Planner® and the Founder and CEO of Pulse Wealth Management in Kanata, serving clients throughout the Ottawa region. She works with individuals, families, professionals, and business owners to understand their broader financial picture and make decisions that reflect their goals, priorities, and the life they want their finances to support.

Connect With Melany Goodhue

Website | Pulse Wealth Management

LinkedIn | Melany Goodhue

The MindSpa Podcast

Thoughtful conversations about mental health, relationships, identity, healing, grounded in clinical expertise and steady human insight.

Hosts

Tina Wilston, M.Ed., Registered Psychotherapist 

Co-Owner, MindSpa Mental Health Centre

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tinawilston/

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Michelle Massunken, MSW, RSW

Co-Owner, MindSpa Mental Health Centre

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-massunken-msw-rsw/

https://www.instagram.com/michellemassunken.therapy/

https://www.facebook.com/MichelleMassunken/

MindSpa Mental Health Centre

Ottawa - Kanata & Gloucester

themindspa.ca

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Transcript

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Avoidance Shrinks Your Options

Melany Goodhue 0:01

Avoiding things is only delaying the problem and giving you a lot less options when you eventually do get your head of the sand. You still have to deal with it anyway. Right.

Melany’s Path Into Financial Planning

Tina Wilston 0:15

Welcome back to this episode of The MindSpa Podcast. Today we have Melany Goodhue, Certified Financial Planner, talking all things money and mental health. So maybe we can start with you just giving us a little intro about yourself.

Melany Goodhue 0:29

For sure. So I'm Melany Goodhue, owner and founder of Pulse Wealth Management, and I'm a certified financial planner. So I work with a lot of high net worth business owner women and their families. And a big part of what I do is reducing and eliminating that overwhelm and stress around money by creating really good financial clarity and then a plan for these women not only to accomplish and live the lifestyle that they want today, but also take care of their future self as well.

Tina Wilston 0:59

That's amazing because entrepreneurship and finance in general can feel really overwhelming. But the second you're a business owner, the layers of complexity that start kicking in. Yeah, overwhelm is probably a good word to use to describe most people and money, actually, probably in general.

Melany Goodhue 1:16

Yeah, not just business owner women. Most people have a lot of overwhelm, stress, and anxiety around money.

Tina Wilston 1:22

Yeah, absolutely. So what made you decide to get into finance in the first place?

Melany Goodhue 1:27

Yeah, good question. Believe it or not, um, I didn't know, I didn't set out to be a financial planner. Okay. It's not like, you know, you weren't with like spreadsheets when you were like five years old. No, no, not at all. No. It's not like my dad was in the industry. That's kind of common for people uh to get into this field. Um, I was gifted a smile when I was a teenager by a perfect stranger.

Tina Wilston 1:50

Wow.

Melany Goodhue 1:51

And that changed my world in a way that's like pretty hard to overstate. Yeah.

Tina Wilston 1:58

So that was dental work then?

Melany Goodhue 1:59

Yeah. I was born with a cleft lip palate. If you want to see that kind of full video, it's on my website. But I thought I wanted to create that same life-changing impact for people. So originally I actually went into the dental field. Okay. I didn't last very long. Okay. Because I couldn't stomach what comes out of people's mouths. Right. And so, sort of at random through hiring agency, I was placed in a financial planning firm. Okay. And funny enough, I did not have good money habits. Okay. I struggled with overspending. I had a lot of debt. There were times where I didn't know how to fund my next interest payment.

Tina Wilston 2:43

Okay.

Melany Goodhue 2:43

And so I got to see firsthand the significant impact and the change in the trajectory of people's lives when they came in and had a plan created. Okay. So I created my own plan.

Tina Wilston 2:56

Yeah.

Melany Goodhue 2:57

And in a very short period of time, I got into a really good position financially. Yeah. And, you know, fast forward to to mid to late 30s. I want to say mid. I'm very fortunate to be in a really great financial position.

Tina Wilston 3:13

Yeah.

Melany Goodhue 3:14

And so I know what it's like to come from nothing into something great. And for me to be able to play a part in giving that to these boss business owner women and their families is something that really makes me tick.

Tina Wilston 3:30

I imagine that builds a lot of confidence too, knowing that you've seen that that you've seen it happen. You've seen that transformation happen for people. You know the importance of it. It must like be really hard when you see people kind of putting their head in the sand and not dealing with or taking care of their finances. Yeah. Because you just know I can help you.

Melany Goodhue 3:52

A hundred percent. And you know, we'll talk about how avoidance creates all sorts of negative emotion, right? It usually stems from fear. Right. And so we avoid it, we procrastinate, and then that turns into a whole bunch of other emotions. Oh, yeah. You know, like embarrassment and shame and things like that. And avoiding things is only delaying the problem. Absolutely. Giving you a lot less options when you eventually do get your head of the sand, and you still have to deal with it

Fear Shame And Money Anxiety

Melany Goodhue 4:25

anyway.

Tina Wilston 4:25

Right. Yeah. It isn't something that you can actually put off forever. Right. Um, and so what would you say that you've learned about people sitting across the table talking about money? What like what have you learned about human nature? Yeah, it's such a good question. You're just having money conversation after money conversation. Yeah.

Melany Goodhue 4:46

Must be pattern. Yeah. What's really cool about this job is that you actually learned so much about money mindset and behavioural finance. The biggest thing I think that I've learned is that more money, more income, yeah, doesn't mean greater financial security and peace of mind.

Tina Wilston 5:07

Okay, I think say that again because I feel like people are gonna be really surprised to hear that. I think everybody thinks that if I just made more money, I would not be stressed anymore. Exactly.

Melany Goodhue 5:19

And that's not true. Okay. More money, more income does not necessarily equal greater financial security, clarity, understanding, and less stress. Feeling great. Yeah. Okay. And feeling good about money. I've worked with people who objectively make a lot of money. Okay. And they are incredibly stressed and anxious. And I've also worked with people who make a modest income and they are very much at peace, secure, and confident in their financial picture. And wow. Yes, the difference between that, and this is what I've learned, is that nine times out of ten, it's clarity. So when people have a lack of clarity around their financial picture. So, like you said, head in the sand, right? They don't understand what they have and where they're at today and where they're going and have a plan to get there. Right. That's actually what feeds the anxiety and the stress. Okay. I'm sure you can appreciate, right? If there are unknowns, our brain creates stories. Yep. Right? Yes, they do. And they're not always optimistic.

Tina Wilston 6:32

No.

Melany Goodhue 6:33

When it's around the unknown.

Tina Wilston 6:35

Yeah.

Melany Goodhue 6:35

Right. So if we can just create some clarity, open our eyes, get our head out of the sand, look at the numbers. Yeah. Right. Figure out what it is that we want, where we're going, and a plan to get there. Yeah. That's nine times out of ten what's going to really reduce and melt away that uh financial overwhelm, right? Anxiety.

Tina Wilston 6:55

Now, what's really interesting is I think an interesting thing for us to talk about and for people to hear is that fear and the behaviour that follows that, which is avoidance, is actually the core of why you're stressed over money. That actually, if you were to able, if you were able to overcome that avoidance and speak to a professional about your financial picture and create a plan, even if the starting picture is not great, you at least know what it is and you know how to get yourself out of it.

Melany Goodhue 7:30

Exactly. So it's the fear of the unknown, in my opinion, is worse than seeing the reality, even if the reality is not great.

Tina Wilston 7:40

Okay. Have you ever had a situation where the starting picture you said, oh crap, I can't help you with that. So I I think that's what people are afraid of. I'm sort of asking you that because I feel like people are afraid, like, I'm gonna go to a professional and they're gonna be like, oh man, you're hopeless. It's a really good question.

Melany Goodhue 7:59

Okay. Um, there is financial help for anybody in any situation. Okay. Now, the type of professional that you reach out to and who can help you is going to change depending on what financial stage that you're at. Okay. Right. So at the end of the day, there's not a situation that can't be improved. Okay. And it's just a matter of who, you know, facing those fears, eating the frog, opening the eyes, and and and pushing through. Yeah.

Who To Call For Financial Help

Tina Wilston 8:30

Okay. I might be through I'm I'm throwing you a little bit of a curveball here. And it's okay if you don't know the answer to this. But are there any like basic guidelines people could hear that it's like if you're in this type of situation, such as uh modest income, credit card debt, difficult making payments and overwhelmed by your mortgage or something like that, that's like go to the bank for that. Or do you know what I mean? Like, are there certain sort of like if you meet this criteria, these are the professionals that are gonna best, and then this is the criteria where financial planner, certified financial planner, is when it's time to bring them on board. Yeah. Just so people can help help them understand who if they're struggling, who who maybe should they reach out to today.

Melany Goodhue 9:13

For sure. And I think, you know, first thing first is don't be afraid to reach out to somebody for fear that it's the wrong person. Okay. So as an example, right? If you called me and it just so happened that, you know, part of the reason that we even have that initial call in the first place is to talk about where you're at, what your needs are, and what your goals are. We talk about the kind of planning that I do to see if there's an alignment. But let's say that you're in a different financial stage than the type of planning that I've chosen to niche in, then that's okay. I say, look, let me connect you with so-and-so, who's going to be able to help you at this stage of financial planning. And then once you're at this stage, let's reconnect. And that's where we can start to work towards building your wealth. So if you're in a position where, and everybody is at some point in their life, where they are struggling with the day-to-day finances, they've accumulated debt, they don't know how they're gonna keep up. I was there at one point. Yeah, absolutely no judgment, then you need a particular expert in that field. Right. So oftentimes that's gonna be called like a financial literacy counsellor or a financial wealth coach. Um, and if things are really, really bad where you just need to clear that debt, yeah, like a consumer proposal or um bankruptcy, right? That's your sort of last resort. Yeah, sometimes that can make a lot of sense. And in which case you're gonna go to those kind of agencies who can help you and give you that fresh start so you can start over and start with a clean slate.

Tina Wilston 10:46

Yeah. You just said something really, really important. You said the word no or the words no judgment. Yeah. Um, and I think that that's actually something that that's uh a great thing that you have that you're bringing to the table is I've been there. And I because I've been there, you can come to me with anything and I'm not gonna judge you for it. Cause I think that's another, we're talking about these emotions that come forward. You you kind of touched on it before. I think we could maybe dive a little bit deeper into that, but like the emotions that come forward are are often like shame, embarrassment, guilt, um, and all of that. So can you speak to that a little bit of what you tend to see when people are kind of showing you their financial picture?

Melany Goodhue 11:26

Yeah. So a lot of people are afraid to reach out just to like open the curtain and reveal what's there. And so I think one of the greatest things to remember, I mean, I can't speak for every other financial planner, but there's a couple things here. First of all, we are all trained to look at things as just data, right? Not as a report card. Yeah, not yeah. It's not, I always say to people, like when you call in and you tell me about your situation, it's not because at the end I'm gonna give you a report card, right? Like A, B, C or D or pass /fail. Yeah. To me, anyway, it is just data.

Tina Wilston 12:05

Yeah.

Melany Goodhue 12:06

And so in order to serve you best and create a plan that's actually going to be sustainable and work, we have to, it's kind of like a relationship, like a partnership, right? I have to know all of the information so that I can help you fully. So be honest. You need to be honest. Yeah. Because that's how you're going to get into a great place. Yeah. Um, so at least for me, I've been there. I certainly don't have judgment. But financial planners in general, our job is not to judge. We're not there to judge you. We're there to gather gather data, learn from it, and then create a plan from it. Right.

Tina Wilston 12:41

I imagine uh it's a very satisfying job. Um, I imagine you have a lot of people leaving after they've disclosed everything and after you've crunched the numbers, and then you show them what's possible. They must have such a deep sense of relief afterwards.

Melany Goodhue 13:09

There is. So I always try to prep people, right? When they're going through my planning process. Yeah. I'm like, okay, you're feeling overwhelmed right now. First of all, that is very normal. Yeah. Just having this first initial call, you're overwhelmed, you're anxious, you're scared. That is very normal. Yeah. Second of all, when you go into the process, in order for us to do a really great job creating this plan for you, I'm going to need to gather a lot of information. And that is going to feel overwhelming.

Tina Wilston 13:40

Yeah.

Melany Goodhue 13:40

It is. Yeah. And that's normal. And trust me and push through it and do it. Because once you do, you're going to have be able to check that box that says, I've gained that clarity around what it is that I have. Most people have never really looked at their group benefits. They don't really understand their pension. Right. They've never actually looked at this stuff. And so it's an incredible pro people go, oh my gosh, I didn't realize. Like I kept my head the sand. I didn't realize that my pension is this. I didn't realize that I have this great, you know, I have life insurance through work and protection if I, you know, lose my income. And so I always say it's going to be overwhelming. It's going to be a lot. It's going to cause you some anxiety. Push through it. Right. Because by the end of that process, you are going to have such clarity, which is automatically going to reduce that stress level. Yeah. Because you're going to see exactly what you have. Anything you don't understand, I'm going to help you understand. I'm going to help you understand what's working well, what maybe we can improve in any gaps or opportunities. And then I'm going to build your plan around that. Right. And it's incredible to see, you know, when people come in on the big screen and they have all their goal bubbles up on the screen and it shows them at the starting point of where they are today. Maybe they're at 25% of their goal accomplished here and 10%. By the end of the day, once we've worked through goal by goal, strategy by strategy, all of those goal bubbles at 100% or more. It's incredible how many times people leave and legitimately give me a hug and they're crying. Yeah. Because this thing, this big bad, scary like wolf in the closet that they have avoided for so many years, did it, did it cause them some anxiety to open that door? Right. And and you know, overcome it and battle it, yes. But in the end, they're in this position of just being purely excited about where they are and where they're going. And that is an incredible transformation.

Tina Wilston 15:48

That's amazing. That's amazing. And I think that there's a piece of identity that comes into here as well. Because especially imagine

Identity Competence And Asking Questions

Tina Wilston 15:57

with what you see, because you often see people that are entrepreneurs and that type of stuff. And part of their identity is a capable person, a responsible person, a knowledgeable person. But then they don't feel that way about their finances. And I think that's something that feeds that guilt, that shame is that disconnect between I'm like so successful and good at all these things here. And then I feel like a mess over here. And then what you're giving them is the gift of their identity matching again. Because I think that you can't help but get your finances in order and feel more like a more competent, responsible adult.

Melany Goodhue 16:37

100%. So a lot of times, right? Like a lot of my clients are therapists, doctors, engineers, lawyers. These are really smart people, really intelligent people, right? And they've built their identity. That's their identity. And so they're seen as this really competent person. And part of the reason that they don't want to open that door and go down that road is because, you know, they've built their career on being competent, capable, smart, knowing all the answers. And suddenly they're going to open that door. They're going to be asked questions about pensions, insurance, and mortgages and you know, CPP pensions, and they're not going to know the answer. Yeah. And that's really foreign and really uncomfortable. And so rather than ask the questions, they're going to not do that for fear of feeling or looking uninformed. Yeah. And, you know, at the end of the day, I always explain to people, it's like, you know, cleaning your house before the cleaner comes over. Right. Like you're doing their job. Right. Right.

Tina Wilston 17:45

Like if I There's a reason you have education to do what you do.

Melany Goodhue 17:49

Right. Like, Tina, you're a psychotherapist, right? So um you do incredible work. That's why I come here. Um, and so it's like if I'm battling like an emotional or or or mental struggle, like I am not going to go and like Google it and try and figure some things out so that I can come and appear intelligent to you. Right. I'm just showing up going, this is what's going on. Can you help me? Yeah. Right. And so why is it any different for finance? Yeah. Right. And so I think that if we can really eliminate that stigma and normalize the fact that you're an expert in your field, I can't do what you do. Right. If you were teaching me, I would have a lot of basic questions and I wouldn't know a lot of things. And it doesn't make me unintelligent. Right. It doesn't make me incompetent. It means that that's not my profession and my chosen area of expertise. So we can just normalize that. I think there's a lot of people who would be a lot further ahead than they would be if they didn't feel so scared to be perceived as unintelligent because I certainly never ever meet with a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer. And just because they don't know what a pension is, think that they are incompetent. Right.

Tina Wilston 19:08

I mean, I think that that I I love that that normalizing that it actually isn't normal to just be uh skilled and know exactly what to do with your money. And I feel like particularly today, I think that maybe 30, 40, 50 years ago, maybe it was because I feel like it was more straightforward, right? But these days, the the the just the information that's out there, and I imagine just like all professions, there's a lot of social media people who spread a lot of information, some of it valuable, some of it good, because it's done by professionals, and then some of it that's just like, why are you commenting on financial things when you actually don't know what you're talking about? And it's confusing to people.

Melany Goodhue 19:57

It's very confusing. And you bring up a good point about, first of all, like understanding where the information is coming from. But another really big one that people can feel overwhelmed about or behind the ball is comparison. Oh, yes. And social media, because you said social media made me think of that. Yeah. Social media is really big for that. Yeah. And if there's one like glaring message that I think that people need to hear and understand is that you're comparing your reality, you know all of the information about your situation. Right. And you're comparing that to someone's highlight reel. Yeah. The few pieces of information. Yes. The few pieces of information that they want you to see. So even if it's you living beside your neighbour, but somehow they are driving nicer cars, they're going on more vacations, you don't know what their savings look like. You don't know what their expenses are, you don't know what debt they have. You don't know what conversations and stress are happening behind closed doors. You also don't know what their goals are. So it's very possible that, you know, if if you feel like you have less or you're saving because more is going to say savings, maybe they have completely different goals than you.

Tina Wilston 21:18

Yeah.

Melany Goodhue 21:18

Right. Or maybe they've got a big fat trust fund that's coming to them in five years and they don't need to be doing the things that you're doing. For the future, yeah. So just be so careful that you're not comparing yourself. Like you would have to know all of their reality, which you won't. Yeah. And oftentimes when you're comparing yourself and making a judgment call, it's apples to oranges. Yeah. And that's just not fair.

Tina Wilston 21:44

No. You know, you say that it reminds me of a story that I think people will be able to relate to. So many moons ago, I used to drive this like little Hyundai Accent, uh, Elantra, doesn't matter, that I owned. Yeah. And I would drive it around

Comparison Culture And Real Priorities

Tina Wilston 21:57

and actually it was before I owned it. I'd drive it around, I'd look at other people driving and much nicer cars than me. And I would have this like sense of like, why don't like why can't I have that? Because I couldn't have it at the time. Financially, I couldn't have it. Not afford that type of car. Um, and then I pay the car off, and then my financial situation changes a little bit, and I recognize like I could afford a nicer car now. But what's so fascinating is when I drive around and I look at other people driving cars, I feel differently when I see it because I can have it. I'm choosing not to have it because I have something else that is actually more valuable to me, such as that extra money every month of not putting into a car payment gets to go towards these other things. Right. And it was incredible how just that framing of I can, but I don't want to, versus I think I want to, but I can't. And I think that the picture that you can create for people is you can do all of these things, just not all at the same time. You have to choose which one's more valuable to you. And if you actually are able to tie into, let's say it's like financial being able to retire at 55. And it's like, so you can have a luxury vehicle or you can retire at 55. What would you rather? They're gonna walk, they're gonna be driving around in that owned crap box car, very proud, feeling very good about their situation because they're choosing it.

Melany Goodhue 23:26

Everyone has their priorities, right? Yeah. So um, it is entirely possible that people can have that link in and have a retirement date at 55 or not. So we always start with what's important to you. Yeah, you tell me, and then we'll create a plan. And if we can make it all work, we're gonna make it all work. Yeah. But if we can't, then you're right. It becomes a discussion of okay, I mean, at the end of the day, this is what we have to work with. Yeah. And how do you rank these and what's more important? And then we're gonna work towards that.

Tina Wilston 23:59

So and then people are living in their values, people are are able to tie, feel agency, they feel in control. Exactly. And I think that that's something, again, like having a clear financial picture makes you feel in control of your life. And from a mental health standpoint, uh, I said it before, I'm gonna say it it doesn't get talked about in therapy, which I find I was just actually talking to another therapist, just checking with her, because it could just be my own experience. People rarely bring up money in therapy of all places, right? And you actually you'd think that it would come up more often. Um, and it does make me think that it is a lot of that avoidance, head in the sand. I'm the one often bringing it up, like in this economy, you know, like it's stressful when when things are going up in prices and that type of stuff. And so I guess one of the things I'm curious about is what you notice about the story people tell themselves about how they are with money. Um, so if they're telling themselves for like 20 years, I'm bad with money, I'm bad with money, or I'm a spender, I don't save and that type of stuff. Like, have you noticed that show up for you and what you do?

Melany Goodhue 25:03

For sure. I, if it's okay, I'd like to rewind and comment on what you said. Oh, yeah, sorry. I know that's okay. I love it. Um, I did a podcast last week and it was with a medical doctor and a pelvic floor physio, and it was so much fun. Yeah. Um, but we the reason they wanted to have me on is because they're well versed in, you know, physical health, and they wanted to know like physical health, mental health, financial health. Is it all related?

Tina Wilston 25:30

Right.

Melany Goodhue 25:30

Right. And my message is it's absolutely related. Yeah. Because if we think about it, right, money is one of the biggest parts of our life, whether we want to admit it or not. And there's nothing like money stress.

Tina Wilston 25:43

Yeah.

Melany Goodhue 25:44

And like I say, there most people at some point in their life, or for good chunks of their life, have money stress for one reason or another. And so if I I agree with you, I think that it would be so great if there was more intentional conversation in therapy about it. Um, and I think perhaps the reason that it's not is because people don't actually realize oftentimes what they're fighting about isn't the thing that they're fighting about. Right. It is, you know, secondary issues that come up because of that underlying ongoing stress that really comes from money and it, you know, feeds into a whole bunch of other problems that can come up in a relationship. And so I think that if people started to ask themselves questions and dived into their finances, it'd be interesting to know how much of those other problems that pop up and that tension and that bickering and that would actually be solved. Absolutely. Maybe it's not a nervous system issue. Maybe it's not a mental issue, maybe it's a money issue. I'm not saying that money, like if everyone got clear on their money and they had a financial plan, they would be, you know, not need therapy. That is 100% not what I'm saying. But I'm curious if there are a number of issues that people experience in other um facets of their life that actually is rooted in money.

Tina Wilston 27:12

Yeah, and that a lot of the conflict is stemming from the behaviours associated with how they're handling the financial situation, such as avoidance, right? If we're both avoiding our financial picture, and then I'm frustrated with my partner because they're spending money that we don't have, but I actually don't even neither one of us actually know if we have it or not because both of us are actually not looking at this. So I would agree. I think that it's a really important topic. And I think today, too, just with the way things are changing very rapidly and affordability and people's money not going as further as far and that type of stuff. Because ultimately, when it comes to mental health, we have to have this basic, um, it's Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? At the very basic is food and shelter. Money affects food and shelter. I think that's the part that people forget. That foundational piece to your mental health. To me, it's sort of like sleep. You can only get so much better if you're not sleeping. You can only your mental health can only get so much better if your financial health is not there. Right. Um, if you're questioning your roof over your head, if you're questioning whether you can put food on the table, you're not gonna have strong mental health.

Melany Goodhue 28:26

Agreed. It's all interconnected and it all affects different things. And you said something interesting. It's a common misconception that everybody has to be on the same page and and act the same way about money. They don't. Actually, in a lot of ways, couples, one person can be more of the spender and one person can be more of the saver. They both gravitate towards each other. Yes, they do. Usually there is one or the other. The important thing, though, is both people fully understanding what the situation is, what they have, and them both being on the same page about the goals, even if each of their goals are different, yeah. Then both being on in agreement and on the same page about what those goals are and how the household income is being used to support those goals. Um, because if that's at the forefront, then and that's always coming first, it's okay that someone spends a bit more and someone saves a bit more if they're both on the same page and working towards the same household goals. Right.

Tina Wilston 29:28

I love that in the sense that it sounds like from a financial planning standpoint, you're like, let's big picture look at all the goals that we have. So now we're communicating about what these goals are, and then they have to agree before you can actually do your job. We have to agree. So it doesn't, like you said, there can be five goals, and three can be primarily hers, and two or three can be primarily his, but we agree that we're working on these six goals, and I can accomplish that if we create this one plan that we all follow all six goals get accomplished. So that's amazing. Because I think again, people might think, oh, I we have such different views of money or we have such different goals, there's no point in bringing in a planner because there it's gonna be a mess. And you're actually going, no, I can work with that.

Melany Goodhue 30:14

Yeah, that's amazing. It's about two people being on the same page and working together towards the same thing, even if it's for each person things differently, if that makes sense. Yeah, whatever their priorities are.

Tina Wilston 30:26

So I'm gonna throw some, I want to throw some rapid fire questions at you. Sure.

Melany Goodhue 30:30

Did you want me to answer that one about um Yes?

Tina Wilston 30:33

Yeah, I'm trying to remember what it was.

Changing Money Stories Into Action

Tina Wilston 30:35

The question is if you've been telling yourself you're bad with money for a decade, what what impact have you seen that have?

Melany Goodhue 30:42

Yeah, so I think the biggest impact is we keep coming back to procrastination, right? And procrastination is really not good because you're giving up one of our greatest assets, which is time. A lot of people think, oh, I need the right return or the right interest rate, and actually your biggest asset and the things that you actually can control and have more of or less of, depending on when you start, is time. Okay. So the problem with saying that, oh, I'm really bad with money, is that that becomes part of your identity. You've now said, I am bad with money. So the problem with that is that if you truly believe that, then why would you start making any any positive changes? Right. Right?

Tina Wilston 31:28

If you our beliefs and our identity are very powerful.

Melany Goodhue 31:32

Right. We, our body even subconsciously listens to that and acts on that. So if you said, Oh my gosh, in today's, you know, a car, I'm never gonna be able to afford a home. Well, why would you ever then sit down and go, Well, you know what? Maybe there are some changes here, some things, little things that I can do to get me maybe one or two steps towards that goal. You wouldn't, because you're telling yourself you'll never have it. If you said, I'm never gonna have enough money to invest, yeah, well, why would you sit down and figure out, like, hmm, you know what, maybe I can cut out my Starbucks every week. They're almost $10 each now, and have $30 a month. And now I'm one step closer. You wouldn't because you believe that you'll never have enough. So why start? Yeah. Right. So I think at the end of the day, um, I am certainly not suggesting that, you know, having a positive mindset is gonna make you rich, first of all. Not saying that, but I am saying that there is a it is very, very different to say to yourself, I'll never be able to, versus, well, I can't yet. But what if? And my best friend has this really cool thing, and it's a saying that goes, What if it were true that? So rather than saying, you know, I'll never be able to save any money, you could say, What if it were true that I could look at my budget and I could probably find a way to find 50 bucks in my budget and start with that? And what if it were true that I get raises every year, uh, at least by inflation, and that that could increase by that every year? And what if it were true that I could take my tax refund instead of blowing it on things I can't even remember and reinvest it? Yeah. So the difference between those two things is that I can't shuts it down, and that's the reality. Yeah. Or what if it were true that opens up possibility and strategy and a better way forward? Yeah.

Tina Wilston 33:45

I always love the saying, whether I believe I can or I cannot, I'm right. 100%. And you're speaking very much to that. And I think that that's the beauty of sitting down and looking at it and creating that plan is all of a sudden that what I can accomplish becomes really crystal clear to me. It's not this thing that feels out of reach. All of a sudden you're able to make it. Because I I'm assuming a good financial plan has to be something that is actually possible. It's not some dream plan that in a perfect world, once you start making X dollars, you can start doing this plan. You're like, I'm working with the reality of it.

Melany Goodhue 34:20

Actually, that's a really good point. So a lot of people have this dangerous thought or belief. And it's that, well, you know what? When I make more, when I get that other job, when I get that promotion, then I'll be fine.

Tina Wilston 34:35

Yeah.

Melany Goodhue 34:36

And the problem is, is that if you still have that negative mindset and those beliefs and that identity and those money habits, what's going to change if you made more money? Right. Nothing. No, you're not. You're gonna make more, you're gonna spend more. Right. Yeah. So changing those mindsets, those beliefs, and those money habits now is going to have you set up so that when you do make more money, well, then you're just in a better position. Yeah.

Tina Wilston 35:05

I like that. That now, and now is in now, it's it's never too late. Right. Right? It's while time is very important, it's we're only losing it every day. So I always love that concept too, where it's like you can always do a U-turn at any time. Sometimes it's it's talked about more in like diet culture, where it's like, oh, well, I've already blown my diet, so I'm just gonna keep going. But then you put the analogy of like, if okay, so if you get on the highway going in the wrong direction, do you just keep going in the wrong direction? Or do you get off the exit, get on the other exit, start heading in the correct direction? Literally happened to me today.

Melany Goodhue 35:41

Okay. Um, I was actually really enjoying reviewing the content for this podcast on the way here. And before I knew it, Eagleson was passing. I'm like, ah, that's a terrible exit to miss. Right.

Tina Wilston 35:51

It is a woman, right?

Melany Goodhue 35:54

And then you're coming back. And so, yeah, I mean, it took me a few extra minutes, but I made it here and we're having a great episode. We didn't just say, oh well. Sorry, Tina, I took the wrong. Like, I didn't get over the exit, you know? Yeah, I love that. I love that. Okay. But I think I I really want to make one thing clear. Um, changing mindset is step one. Step two to why that's so effective is that when you have a different mindset, you take a different action or you take action at all. So simply changing your mindset, I mean, it could maybe have an effect, but changing and then taking a different action because of that different mindset, that is actually the key to success and change. Yeah.

Tina Wilston 36:35

Well, and what's really interesting is this the psychology tells us that it's really hard to actually take different action before the mindset changes. And so anybody who has been struggling to they they know they should be behaving differently. So why am I not behaving differently? Something deep down is from a mindset standpoint, is probably in the way. And we don't even know what it is because you're avoiding. So talk to your therapist about money stuff and get that financial support. And it sounds like very much people can reach out to you because at the bare minimum, if you if they're not, if you're not right for them yet, you're gonna be able to put them in the right direction of where they need to start. A hundred percent so they can make their way back to you when it's time.

Melany Goodhue 37:16

Yeah. I mean, if you think about it just at a basic level, like if we're in a relationship and we're bickering all the time about money, is our affection going with each other going to be the same, better or worse? Yeah. So perhaps just one example, if a couple is going to therapy because you know, John never wants to touch me anymore, or you know, Mary is is constantly like angry at me, why would I want to touch her? Right? Maybe we start talking about well, what are the stressors going on in your life? Yeah, right. And if worrying about the next bill payment or John's spending all the time and Mary isn't, maybe at the end of the day, you know, that's the root cause. And if we can start bringing up more of those money conversations, I think we might solve a bit more problems a lot more easily. Yeah, I love that.

Tina Wilston 38:08

Okay, so some rapid fire questions for you. First question you need a lot of money before you need financial help. Myth. Okay.

Money Myths And Practical Takeaways

Melany Goodhue 38:17

It just depends on what kind of financial professional you need to work with based on where you're at, but you absolutely don't need a lot of money to seek help.

Tina Wilston 38:26

Amazing. Investing is basically gambling.

Melany Goodhue 38:30

Myth. There's a wide range of risk when it comes to investments. So when we build out your portfolio, we've got your risk tolerance in mind, we've got your time horizon, and we're gonna build something that really looks at long-term economic growth. Okay, not counting on the winning lottery ticket. Okay, fantastic.

Tina Wilston 38:51

And what about um debt means you're bad with money? Myth.

Melany Goodhue 38:56

Okay. Debt means that you owe it.

Tina Wilston 38:57

I think that's gonna surprise a lot of people, right?

Melany Goodhue 38:59

Yeah, yeah. Debt means that you owe money. It doesn't tell me uh how you got that debt. It doesn't tell me if that payment is sustainable, what that interest rate is, and if you have a plan to work towards it. So it doesn't tell me anything about your character, it just tells me that you owe money.

Tina Wilston 39:16

Amazing. I love that. Um, if I'm making my payments, my finances are fine. Maybe.

Melany Goodhue 39:24

Okay. So that's just one piece of your financial picture. So good on you that you're making your payments, and that tells me that you can meet your obligations today, but it doesn't tell me whether you can meet them tomorrow. It doesn't tell me whether you can face a financial crisis. It doesn't tell me if you are saving towards your future and taking care of your future self. Okay. So it could, if it's part of a lot of other things as well. Right.

Tina Wilston 39:50

Okay, fantastic. And I don't need to think about my retirement yet.

Melany Goodhue 39:56

Well, I mean, you don't need to do anything. Um, but it is a very good idea. I mean, you don't necessarily need a 40-page plan if you're 25 and starting out, but you have a lot easier time and so many more choices and options if you start at 25 or 35 versus 45 or 55.

Tina Wilston 40:15

Yeah, amazing. And I think we just have three last questions. So can you have 200, a $200,000 salary and still be financially unhealthy?

Melany Goodhue 40:28

Absolutely. Okay. Having a $200,000 salary just tells me how much income you have. And it's a good income, but it doesn't tell me how much debt you have, how much you're spending, how much you have in savings, and if you have a financial plan and how much anxiety you have around money. It just tells me how much you make. Amazing.

Tina Wilston 40:47

And why do smart people make terrible financial decisions?

Melany Goodhue 40:52

Uh well, because intelligence has nothing to do with and it doesn't cancel out fear, emotions, and the stories that we tell ourselves.

Tina Wilston 41:02

Okay. Last one, what's the biggest lie we tell ourselves about money?

Melany Goodhue 41:07

I'll deal with it later. Because later, quietly, quickly turns into many years. Right.

Tina Wilston 41:15

Oh my gosh. I feel like a really great takeaway from today is you will feel better if you just start looking at it now. Just get the professionals involved. Just do it. Just do it. And you will feel a lot better afterwards. And what I notice actually a lot in therapy and and personally, in my personal experience and everybody I ever talked to socially, is that very often we have no idea how much something is stressed, certain things, and this would be one of them, finance. You don't know how much it's stressing you out till it's gone. Because those everyday, constant, persistent stressors, we become almost acclimated to. We don't really realize the impact that it's having on our sleep, on our mood, on our relationships. And then all of a sudden, we take a step, it goes, whatever that stressor thing goes away. And then we go, I can breathe again. I'm sleeping better. All these things are improving. And I think that this is a really good example of something that people can go do and they'll sleep better. And you've even established even if the picture isn't rosy, if they feel like they're taking care of it and they know what they're doing now and they know how to fix it, they're gonna sleep better.

Melany Goodhue 42:32

Oh my gosh, so much, so much.

Tina Wilston 42:35

Yes. Thank you so much, Melany, for your time. We really appreciate it. We'd love to have you back. Maybe do a couple other episodes in the future if you're open to it. Because I think that that people are gonna really love uh hearing what you have to say. So thank you so much. Thank you. I appreciate it.