Parenting and Leadership Are the Same Skill: Dr. Andrea Mata (Dr. Dre) | Ep 57

What if the skills you use to raise your kids are the exact same skills you need to lead a team?

In this episode, Aimee Rickabus talks with Dr. Andrea Mata — known as Dr. Dre — a clinical psychologist, national speaker, and founder of BrightSpot Families, about the powerful overlap between parenting and leadership.

Dr. Dre shares:
- Why gentle parenting swung too far and what authoritative parenting gets right
- Her framework of high expectations within the warm and fuzzies
- How this same approach transforms managing Gen Z employees
- The real cost of firing vs. coaching (it's 2x the salary to replace someone)
- Why the mental load of motherhood is the invisible epidemic no one's fixing

Whether you're leading a household, a team, or both, this conversation will challenge how you think about expectations, accountability, and the permission to be audaciously imperfect.

🔗 CONNECT WITH DR. ANDREA MATA:
Instagram: @drdremata
Website: https://andreadmata.com/
Book: https://a.co/d/01cSFY1k

🔗 CONNECT WITH THE MANAGE HER:
Website: https://www.themanageher.com
Instagram: @themanageher
Full show notes: https://www.themanageher.com

Transcript

0:00

🎶 Music Outro 🎶 Welcome back to The Manager podcast, the show where we make invisible labor visible, redefine leadership, and explore what it really means to thrive as women in today's world. Today's conversation is one I've been deeply looking forward to because it sits at the intersection of mental health, leadership, parenting, and the future of our culture. I'm joined by Dr. Andrea D. Mata, Dr. Dre. a clinical psychologist, professor, national speaker, and one of the most compelling voices right now on Gen Z resilience and human development. She is also the author of the number two parenting book. Dr. Dre works with families, leaders, and organizations to help them understand what's really happening beneath the surface, why anxiety is rising, why burnout is normalized and how the way we parent lead and set expectations is shaping the next generation. She's bold, evidence-based, compassionate, and refreshingly honest. And today we're going to talk about everything from gentle parenting and accountability to Gen Z in the workplace and what women leaders need to understand right now about mental health, boundaries, and expectation. This is one of those conversations that will challenge you and also ground you. Let's get into it. Welcome to the show, Dr. Dre. I'm so glad to one let's do this hello hello thank you so much for having me. I'm excited. Yay. So Dr. Dre, you wear a lot of hats, clinical psychologist, professor, speaker, and parent. From your perspective, what is the biggest psychological challenge you're seeing right now across families, workplaces, and culture as a whole? I think what I'm seeing is the lack of adaptability. So when I talk about adaptability, I mean like I You have enough skills in your toolbox so that no matter what environment you go into, you can sit back, you can assess, and then you can figure out, okay, what does needs to happen in order to thrive? And so that's what I talk about with adaptability, but there's so many of our youth who are just feel so helpless and they've developed learned helplessness where they think like everything is out of their control and they can't do anything better. And so they just kind of sit back and wait for everyone else to kind of do it for them. And I'm like, no, no, we're not going to do this. Like you have to start doing things yourselves for yourselves. And what did we learn from the way that those now adults were parented and how we can do better with parenting? What did that generation of parents do wrong with those kids? Yeah. So for the last 20 years, like I usually say 15 to 20 years, there's been a big influx and a big push for what I call gentle parenting. by the influencers on Instagram and the supposed parenting experts who aren't really experts if you dive into their background and their training and all of the things. And so what gentle parenting kind of emphasizes is it's going to emphasize feelings over thinking or behaviors. And the problem with that is that you don't have any control over your feelings. Then it's also going to get rid of punishments and rewards. And the reason why that's problematic is because Why does the vast majority of Americans go to work? To get paid, not because of like this internal motivation and this purpose and this passion? No, they go to their nine to fives because it pays them to be there. And then the last thing is a lot with gentle parenting is they try to treat their child as if they are on like the same level as them or like their partner. And so they're giving the kids a lot more power and decision-making ability than the child is actually ready for. And then what happens is when they get into the workplace, they're like, oh, well, I should like, you should be listening to me. And the leaders are like, what? You just started yesterday. And they're like, yeah, but I should already be the boss. And the leaders are like, what? And so like, there's this whole like weird dynamic going on between the Gen Zs and the millennials and the Xers and the boomers. all of the things. That is so interesting. You don't really think about how parenting styles are going to affect workplace and businesses later on, but parenthood is leadership. We're teaching our kids leadership, whether we realize it or not in our homes. Yeah. And I think that's the, one of the biggest things, like if I could like scream it from the rooftops for like corporations and businesses and companies is that like parenting and leadership are literally the same skills. And so it's, if you're, that's how you're modeling like what a leader is by how you're parenting your child. And so then when they get to the real world and they get into the workplace, they're like, but this is not how my mom treated me. And then you're like, well, yeah, cause I'm not your mom. And so like, one of the things that I always talk with companies is like, well, why would we bring you a parenting expert, like clinical psychologist into do like trainings and workshops for us? And I was like, well, because if you bring me in, you get both Parenting, which is like building and investing in your employees personal side. And then you also get leadership training all in one workshop because parenting skills and leadership skills are literally the same thing. It's just different audiences. You're going to have a few kids, you know, that you're in charge of versus adults that you're in charge of, but it's literally the same skills. I love it. That's exactly what my book was all about. That's what I realized. I was like, whoa, this is exactly what I do at my house. Running this company is the same thing. This is wild. I wasn't expecting it. And when it hit me, the aha, I was like, wow, we should really be talking about this. This is pretty important stuff. Yeah. And what works in parenting works in leadership, especially now. And I think people are not really realizing it yet. Right. But I do think there's a little bit of – I think the shift of consciousness seems to be happening. At least on my show, I'm seeing more and more people that are having kind of overlapping conversations in this area of parenthood is leadership. Motherhood is leadership. I think it's – the message is spreading, Dr. Dre, and I'm glad because first of all, we need to give moms credit for this important work that they do at home. Mm-hmm. And I think that's one of the things, you know, we, and I'd love to see, you know, one of the, one of the friends that I interviewed after I met with you, um, is Dr. Danielle Dowling. And she wrote good girl, bad mom. And she really gets into like the economics of how much it costs. It would cost if you had to pay somebody to be the stay at home mother. And then the policy that would go behind if we actually compensated women for their work, what that would be. look like if there was actually policy behind it and i'm like wow if we elevate motherhood to a position of leadership in our culture if we're able to put a policy behind it that actually puts a monetary value to motherhood it could really change the future for humanity for for our people for you know if we're able to do that in our culture that could be amazing I'm like, are you busted? Busted? Are you working? You're like, I'm working. I'm working. I did everything. Okay. All right, let me answer the question. Yes, yes. No, there really wasn't a question there. It's just, you know, do you think that motherhood is something that our political leadership or that we as women should be lobbying for policy changes on so that women could be compensated to stay home and actually be mothers full-time to their children. So I think that's a really interesting conversation. And I don't know, like, I'm not strong in economics, but I know, like, I didn't, I did not read that book. I have to find it and read it. But I want to say that listening to like Dave Ramsey, I want to say that he said it's like$95,000. Like if you take everything that a mom does, like a stay-at-home mom does with like grocery shopping and cleaning and cooking and laundry and all of the scheduling, but you know, personal assistance, those kinds of things. If you kind of figure all of that together, it's like $95,000 a year. Um, but I don't know like where, like being me, it's like, where does that money come from? Like, I was like, maybe that you could get like a tax credit or something. I mean, I just, I think that if there could be, you know, some, if there was some sort of offset or compensation or acknowledgement, um, that there, that this has a financial, because unfortunately our world kind of defines success and, you know, potential and all of these things around money, um, you know, because this is invisible labor that's unpaid. Um, it, it has been diminished and kind of set aside and almost like swept under the rug, but it's, probably the most important work that happens for humanity. It has to be the most important work that happens for humanity. I believe that. Absolutely. Because I know from my experience, both personally and professionally, that if you don't have a strong family unit, you are raising individuals who are more likely to break the law and not be contributing members of society. And then they're going to raise kids that are more likely to be abused in both emotionally, psychologically, even sexually, those kinds of things. And it's just so problematic. And we're not having those conversations about how important the institution of family is and motherhood and fatherhood is like, that's a whole nother epidemic that we're not talking about is like the fatherlessness in our country. And so, but yeah, but like the alternative is if you're, raising your children in these loving environments, in these high quality families, well, then these are going to be the ones that are going to be successful. They're going to go out and they're going to make changes in the world. They're going to be great contributors to society and their communities and all of the good things that we want from our society. And if like I'm doing it and then you're doing it, Amy, and then our kids start to do it because that's what's been modeled for them. Well, then all of a sudden the ripple effects go exponential and Because all of these little ripple effects are just going all over the place. And then our society looks completely different if we prioritize family. So the ROI, the return on investment on motherhood, is very great for society. So it's something that our society should be investing in. Something that we need to put an emphasis on and an understanding as moms, as women, And come together and say, hey, look, if we can't do this work because we can't afford to stay home with our kids, if we wanted to stay home with our kids but we can't afford to stay home with our kids, is there a means, is there a way that we could look at some sort of policy that would allow women to do that if they wanted to? I know that now we're actually paying siblings or children to care for their parents, like$75,000 a year to care for your parents because it's cheaper for the government. and safer for you to care for your parent than it is for them to put them in a home. It's way more expensive, and the elder abuse was out of control and all of that stuff. So what I'm thinking is if some sort of policy like that became available for women, for women who basically couldn't afford to otherwise stay home with their children but would love to stay home with their children, because I think there are women like that out there. I'd like to stay home with my kids, but who can afford that? You know, at least until they get into school, you know, at least until they're school aged. Right. And that was one of the perks about being a college professor when my kids were young is that like I was able to create my own schedule. So like I didn't teach classes on Mondays and Fridays. I taught like long days on Tuesdays and Thursdays and I taught like a night class on Wednesdays. So like my husband would come home from work and then I would go and be a professor. So like I had the luxury of being kind of like, yeah, I was full time. But then because I had so much flexibility, I was still a stay-at-home mom. And there's some pluses and minuses of that. But I think there are a lot of women out there who would love to have that ability to stay at home with their kids and probably do some co-op and meet with other moms who are staying home with their kids. And I think it would probably help with our society and with women's mental health. Because I know that there's been a research study, it came out probably in the last six to 12 months, And it was talking about how women's mental health, especially mothers, is awful because there's all of this pressure and responsibility on us and the burnout rates are just so high. And I think about that. I'm like, if I only had to be a mom, if I did not have to be Dr. Dre and writing books and seeing clinicians and doing speaking events, if I only had to do a mom, I'm pretty sure like my pressure levels, my stress levels would would significantly decrease because I wasn't having to have all this fragmented time where it's like, okay, like we were talking earlier today, like fog delays, like two hour delays for school. It's like, okay, now I have to maneuver all of my schedule around. But if I was just a mom and it was like, oh, okay, I'm going to take you guys to, you know, school two hours later, no biggie. And then we're to come home and then I'll fold the laundry and then I'll go grocery shopping and all of the things. Right. I think, my actual stress levels would actually be reduced if I was only quote unquote a mom. Yeah, I know. And then you put on top of that, you get women at a certain age and then the season of your life where your parents start aging. So you've still got children and now you have parents that need you as well. So there becomes this time in your life where you're the sandwich and the stress level. Now you're working. I remember my mom when my mom went through this, I really thought my mom was going to end up in a loony bin for like about a year when her Her father got diagnosed with dementia. Her mother went blind like in a week. And they ended up living with us while my mom was running her company and my brother and I were little kids. And it was just like the pressure that can be put on a mother is – it isn't beneficial for society as a whole to have women under this much pressure. Not at all. Like I was having this very conversation with one of my clients earlier. And she's not even a mom yet. She wants to be a mom. She's in her late 20s, early 30s. And her parents are divorced. And so there's this weird kind of relationship where she feels responsible for both her mom and her dad. Her mom's physically healthy, but emotionally, mentally, not that great. But then her dad is not physically healthy. And so we were having this conversation because she does a lot for her mom and she does a lot for her dad. And I looked at her. And I was like, there's going to come like, I hate that I have to tell you this, but it, and I'm going to, it's going to be a gut punch. And she's like, okay, I'm ready. She's like, give it to me. And I'm like, look, there's going to come a time where you have to choose between being a good mom and a good daughter. And she was like, oh, that's just, that's rough. And I was like, yeah, because like, you're going to like have to choose between Either or you're going to have to have conversations where you're going to have to be like, hey, I can't do all of this alone. I can't be the great mom and the great daughter and be sole responsibility for my dad's health and my mom's emotional well-being. Like you're going to have or you're going to have to call in your in-laws and other family members to help you be a great mom. And she's like, I'm like, you have a few years because you're not pregnant yet. But this is going to be something that's going to come up probably in the next five years for her. Yeah. It's, it's a lot, you know, to be carrying both sides of the coin. And then our generation, you know, I think there was a study that came out that said our generation has had the least amount of help from their parents in child rearing as well. So it's, you know, in past generations, there were grandparents who were around to help with the kids, you know, raise them, help, help mom, help dad, um, grandmas and grandpas. And I feel like us Gen Xers, we didn't really have as much of that. And do you think that that has impacted our burnout levels? Oh, absolutely. Like, cause my dad, so like when my parents found out that I was having twins, they were still in Chicago and then they're like, well, you're going to need help. And they're like, and we're retiring. They're like, so we're just going to move to you to help you. And I was like, and like, I literally will tell anybody, like I can't do anything As much as I do, if I did not have my dad and my mom like six minutes away, because like earlier this week when there was the delays, it was like, I would just call my dad and be like, pa, they have a two hour delay, but I have clients. And he's like, just bring them over, mija. He's like, no biggie. And I was like, oh, thanks so much, pa. But like, that's one of the things like I love intergenerational care. There are so many benefits of intergenerational having like grandparents taking care of their grandchildren as their, you know, their adult children are going out in the workforce. I love it. I did like years ago, I used, I did a whole like three part series on the benefits of it for like the parents and the kids and the financial and the cognitive, all of the things. And the thing is my kids and I were actually talking about this earlier this week because my husband and I's retirement goal, like vision is that we will do the same thing for our kids. so that we will, wherever our kids are, we will be there to help raise their kids so that they can go out and have their careers. And so the kids were funny. Like we were having breakfast one morning and the three kids were like, well, if we all have three kids, you and dad are going to have like nine kids running around the house. And I was like, that's okay. Like we'll have nine kids running around the house. Like, We'll just work with it. Like, I'll just need to stay healthy, both mind and body, so that we can chase these nine kids around all over the house. I love it. That's my plan, too. Indy, I always ask Indy, my five-year-old, what do you want to be when you grow up? She's like, I just really want to be a mom. And I'm like, oh, she'll be like, what do you want to be? And I'm like, I really want to be a grandma. And she's like... And we talk about like how we're going to live. We want to live together. My older boys will look at me and they'll be like, you're going to homeschool our kids, right? And I'm like, yeah, for sure. I'm going to homeschool your kids. Like I'm looking forward to that season of my life and I'm cultivating the fields for the next season of my life so that we can have – I don't want to be a little old lady who lives in my house all by myself. I would be so lonely. I have a neighbor like that and I would – I'd be so lonely. I don't even know what I would do with myself. Right. Like go and volunteer. But I'd much rather just be around my kids and like raising their kids and like hanging out and like having them having like nine kids running around the house. Sounds amazing. And we were joking because the kids were like, well, all the all the kids would just be around you. And like dad would be like the grandpa would be like off reading in the corner and he'd just be like, like all the kids around you. that's how it is now. And I was like, that's fine. Like I will play that role. I will love playing that role. Totally. You'll just have a really cool backyard, like play structure for them. Exactly. And then i'll fill them up with all the sugar and then here you go. Here you go. Do the same thing my parents do to me where it's like tv time, sugar. ice cream, like literally as soon as we go to pick up my kids from my parents house, they run to get like those icies, you know, like those old school, like in like the frozen strips. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they just run and get, they're like, we have to get our thing. It's five degrees outside and they're still running to get their freaking icy pops. And I'm like, oh my gosh. That's hilarious. No, my grandparents were around, you know, before they got sick, my grandparents were totally around. They actually lived with us for a And it was so nice. I really, there was something there that was so beautiful and so special. And to be able to like, my dad says, because my parents were divorced, he says he's kind of been a tourist in my life. And when you come and you visit, but you don't really ever be together, but it was nice to actually get to spend that time with my grandparents where they weren't tourists. They were living in my house and I got to learn from them. And I think that, man, I really think that, you know, hashtag, you know, old people goals is hashtag grandma goals for sure. You know, just being a good grandma, like I can't imagine missing any of it. I just hope I want to be a really, really, really good health so that we can grow up and, you know, be really, really awesome grandmas. Exactly. That's what, that's my goal. Like, cause I, I'm doing this protocol right now to like get in healthier, like be healthier. And my son's like, why are you taking all these supplements? And I was like, so that I can, that's what's on the whole conversation. I was like, because I want to be healthy so that I can take care of your kids. And he was like, oh, and then this is how we had this whole conversation over breakfast. That is the cutest. Yeah. My kids see me doing it too. And I had the same thing. I'm like, well, I was quite old when I had Indy. I was 40 when I had her. So I'm like, I need to, you know, I'm going to need to really take good care of myself. And she can't wait forever to have kids either because I won't be around forever. She needs to be like 30 is about where like, yeah, I'm like 25. Maybe we won't have to push it up just a little because mommy was pretty old. Sorry. So you got to be the one. Yeah. We got to get into your book. Your book is called the number two parenting book. I know, but will you please tell the girls how you came up with the name for this book? So the whole premise of the book is practical parenting tips and the time that it takes you to poop. A mom poop, not a dad poop, because those are very different times. Except if you're these two ladies in Lima, Ohio, who apparently take longer to poop than their husbands. And I was like, let me know what your secrets are, because I think you are the only two women in the universe who take longer than their husbands. And she's still like, yeah. That is hilarious. That is absolutely, you know, a mom poop is, yeah, it's a mystical, magical, quick thing. Like under five minutes. I was actually talking with someone. We did a women's group earlier this week at my office and they were like, well, and I was like, well, I did all this research for pooping. And they're like, what? And I'm like, yeah, like to write the book, I did research on pooping and it should take you about a minute to poop. It should take you no longer than five minutes to poop. If it's taking you longer than five minutes, well, Like, there's something going on down there that you need to, like, look into. You probably need a squatty body or something like that or more fiber in your life. But they're like, what, five minutes? And I was like, yeah. I'm like, moms aren't on the toilet for longer than five minutes. Like, everyone's going and grabbing them and being like, I need you. I need you. Yeah, if you even get to poop alone, right? Right. That's very true. Well, that was the thing. Like, when we were talking about it and, like, my illustrator, Adam – He was like, because we were talking about like we were trying to think of like the subtitle. So we had the number two parenting book, but then we needed the subtitle. And he was like, well, why don't you call it like the porcelain panic room? And I was like, well, that's pretty funny. I'm like, but I'm like, that's just too much explaining. Yeah, totally. No, that is very funny. So you've been very candid about parenting styles, especially gentle parenting. Where do you think the intention was right? And where did it go sideways? So I think what happened was, so a lot of like Gen Xers and elder millennials were raised with like more militant parenting style. So like my way or the highway, we don't care about feelings. It's like the whole, like, if you're crying, I'm gonna give you something to cry about all of that. Right. And so a lot of like Gen Xers and millennials were like, we don't want to parent that way. And so what they did was, they swung all the way to the other side of this pendulum. And that's how we got gentle parenting where they're like, we're going to validate their feelings. We're going to focus on their feelings. We're going to know that they're loved and they're heard and they're understood and they're seen, which is all great. But then what happened was they completely reduced the expectations and the behavioral expectations of their kids. And now it's just a mad house, especially in schools. Kids aren't listening to their parents. You hear parents, I mean, I hear it because I'm in tune with it, but you hear like the no thank you parents where like they're out and about and their kids are doing something that they're not supposed to be doing. And it's being like, hey, don't do that. The parents are like, no, thank you. And I'm like, your kid is just going to do it over again. And that's what happens all of the time. Like I'll see it in my office where the parents are like, the kid's doing something and the parents will be like, no, thank you. And I'm like, oh my God, it doesn't work. It doesn't work. Like you have to tell them, like, these are the expectations. This is what I want you to be doing. Don't do that. And then move on. And it doesn't have to be like what happened was by us going here and then swinging all the way to here. We totally missed this beautiful middle ground called authoritative parenting. I say high expectations within the context of the warm and fuzzies. And that leads to the best developmental outcomes. But people are like, well, I don't want to be that authority figure. Like right now there's, for some reason, lots of parents don't want to be perceived as an authority figure. And I'm like, but you have to be the authority figure in your child's life or else they're going to find someone else, influencers, TV people to be the authority figure in their life. And then you're not going to like what they become. And it's going to be all of your fault, even though you don't want to acknowledge it. Yeah. I kind of like the way Cesar Millan lays it out. Because in the house, in a pack of dogs, there has to be an alpha. And I like to think of myself as the alpha in my pack at home. And it's not like in a mean way. It's just that I have, somebody needs to be the leader of the pack. Somebody who's the wisest and strongest, who has experience. That would be mama and dada. We know we are the, you know, we're the leaders of the pack in the house. And I always tell, it's cute because my five-year-old, I'll be like, sweetheart, you don't, you don't need to be the leader right now. You don't need to be the boss right now. And she'd be like, but I want to be the boss. And I'm like, and you will be the boss when you grow up. I promise. I'm like, but right now mommy is the boss of the house because she knows what is best for you. And she loves you and she's going to take care of you and you're going to be okay. I'm going to make sure you're okay. Don't worry. I got you. And I think that that it's that almost, you know, that cause I, you know, I was the way that I was parented was, um, you know, it was kind of like heavy, heavy, heavy, and then gone and the heavy, heavy, heavy, and then gone. So I had really inconsistent parenting growing up, very inconsistent just based on, you know, my mom being a single mom, sometimes she had time and sometimes she was extremely busy. And so it just like, even the way I work and the way I've built things, it's so that I can be home and in and out of the house all day. Like I'm in the office for a couple hours, I'm back at the house for lunch, making sure everybody's eating something. I'm back at the office for a couple of hours, I'm back at the house, you know, and so I'm in and out all day long and just kind of, I want to have the presence like I'm there and make sure that I'm standing up in that leadership role for everybody so that, you know, things are getting done and people are being you know, also making sure that they're getting accountability in the house too. Did you guys do your homework? Did you make your beds? You know, did you clean your rooms? If I'm not there, that accountability portion of their life kind of, it goes away, you know? So that's, you know, as the authority, as the alpha in the house, that's, you know, really, you're right. Setting expectations and, making sure that, you know, they're performing on their duties and tasks and making sure that they have duties and tasks to perform for themselves and for the household. Right. That's good. Yeah. Chores are awesome. Yeah. We want chores. We want our kids to be doing chores as early as possible. We want them to be doing like hygiene is a huge thing because I have like a how old is he? He's like 12 right now. So I have a client that's 12 and he does not take a shower. He does not wear deodorant. He does not change his clothes. Like he wears the same clothes, like on multiple days, like sweatshirts and t-shirts and all of the things. And like his parents were like, well, how are we supposed to like make him do this? And I was like, well, in all honesty, you should have been doing it when they were younger. But now like, it's just a matter of now you're now it's so much harder because they're older and like, it's so much easier folks. If you just start requiring these expectations earlier on. So like right now, I remember I have my third graders, they're twins and they're wearing deodorant. I'm like, okay, everyone's getting deodorant and y'all are putting on deodorant on a daily basis. You brush your teeth in the morning and then you put on deodorant because I don't want to have the stinky kids. That is hilarious. Like we're just going to start this now. Yeah. But toothbrushing is one of those things too. Like I had one, well, actually I had... I've had two of the pack that were just hated brushing their teeth. And I'm so grateful that they both grew out of it after braces. But oh my gosh, what a battle. What a battle. Yeah, hygiene. So I love the story that you told in your book about your girls and when you started rewarding them for getting dressed. Can you tell that story? Yeah. So it's my oldest daughter, the girl twin. And so I was like, OK, look, guys, for every, because I wanted them to be independent. I want to say that the twins were four and my youngest was two. And so I was like, look, I want you guys to start getting your you're dressing yourselves independently. Because like, I see way too many, like eight and nine year olds who like their parents have to help them get their clothes on. And I'm like, no, this is just too much. So like a two and four, I was like, look, we're going to start working on getting you guys independent when it comes to dressing independently. I was like, so every single article of clothing that you put on all by yourselves, I will give you one M&M. Yeah. So then all of a sudden my oldest daughter, my girl twin, comes out. She's got two pairs of socks on. She's got on like sweatpants on top or like shorts on top of her sweatpants. She has like a long sleeve shirt and like a tank top. She has like two pairs of underwear on and she looks at me and goes, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, nine M&Ms please. And I was like, damn it. She won. And so smart. So I looked at her and I was like, okay, baby girl, I love that you put on all of these clothes all by yourself. So I will give you the nine M&Ms today. Okay. But for moving forward, we're only going to get M&Ms for like appropriate amounts of clothing. So like one pair of socks, one pair of underwear, one thing on our bottom, like our bottom, and one thing on our top. And she's like, okay, mama. She's like, but nine M&Ms. Clever kids, man. They're too clever. They are. They outsmart us too often. Yeah. Especially with technology. That's why, like, that's another thing that we need to be doing earlier on is kind of setting what our values are when it comes to technology. Because if we're not, they're always going to be faster and smarter when it comes to technology to any of their parents. Yeah. What do you think? What do you think some good rules for, like, technology are for parents out there? So I always go by the – so there's a great book out there, The Anxious Generation by Dr. John Haidt. And his recommendations are for technology is, let's see, what are they? No smartphone before the age, before high school. No social media until age 16. I think those are the two big ones because then he's like free play and those kind of things. But yeah, like I think if you can avoid giving your kids tablets and phones for as long as possible, that's what you want to do. Like earlier today, my youngest was sitting in my lap. And she was like, can I put this microphone on my wish list? Because we have just a running birthday list right for her and for all the kids. And I'm like, yeah, and we can put it on. She's like, yeah, so I can put that on there, but you won't let me put a phone on there. I was like, definitely not. I'm like, you're seven. She's like, and I can't put a tablet on there either. And I was like, nope. And she's like, and not a computer. And I'm like, no. And she's like, OK, she's like, but I have a computer at school. And I was like, that's fine. You have a computer at school. But like the later that you can delay the technology, I think it's better for like social interaction and social skills and them not being addicted to, you know, technology. Yeah, it is. It's my daughter and I are often my little my five year old and I talk about this. We talk about everything, but we were talking about how, you know, technology gives you a dopamine hit. Like if you watch, I was reading, if you watch a sunset on your phone, you get dopamine. But if you watch a sunset in real life, you get dopamine and serotonin and it also ignites some cannabinoids in your brain too. So you're getting more holistic, whole brain experience from the real sunset. But the dopamine is just so addictive. It is. And it's so quick. Like if you're on social media and people are like, like, like, like, like, like, and it's like, oh, okay. Dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine. And then what's happening is like, we're so used to getting dopamine hits all of the time that when we're not getting dopamine hits, we're like, we need more and we become addicted to it. And then that doesn't go bode well for our mental health. Exactly. Yeah. Even my five-year-old's like, I want my phone. And I'm like, I'm like, you're going to get addicted to dopamine. Yeah. You're like, yeah, you're going to get addicted. You got to talk the science behind it. That's how my mother raised me. She's a scientist. So, you know, we always talk the science behind everything. So even when I was a little itty bitty kid, it was the science of everything. So many of our listeners are mothers and executives like my mother was. How do we parent kids who can tolerate discomfort without becoming harsh or disconnected? So I think one of the things is I always preach the high expectations within the context of the warm and fuzzies. And so I think acknowledging that your child is having discomfort and like, okay, yes, I validate you. I see that you're having discomfort and we're going to move through this discomfort and we're still having these expectations of you. So I know one of my kids, they... what happened? They got really, Oh, they, there was like a, you know, like your kids are homeschooled. So you don't know. They have like the heart, like the heart association. And do they do like this jump rope competition? And like, one of my kids came home and they're like, I was the worst jumper in my class. And I was like, okay. I'm like, what feeling is that? And he, they were like disappointment. And I'm like, okay. So disappointment, like you felt disappointed. Got it. I'm like, okay, now let's move through that and let's start thinking like, how do we, how are we to problem solve this? I'm like, what are the, what are the solutions to this problem? I'm like, knowing that you're disappointed. Okay. Like, are you willing to, one possibility is like, if you really care about this, um, can you, can you commit to practicing jump roping five for five minutes, like three times a week? And they're like, okay. So I'm like, so that's one option. I'm like a second option is you can, like, you don't care about jump roping. Like, that's not your thing. Like running is your thing. So like, you could just like use the coping skill, like the coping thought of like, it doesn't matter to me. Or a third option could be like, maybe you practice, you know, just jumping in general. And they were like, okay. And so they sat back and they thought about it. And then they're like, I don't really care about jump rope. And I'm like, awesome. So if you're not willing to put in the work to get better at jump rope, well, then let's just move through it and be like, OK, I'm not really good at jump rope. That's OK. And I'm not willing to put in the time. OK, so I'm going to be the worst in my class, but I'm going to kind of dedicate my time to other things. And so I think it's that it's acknowledging it's validating the emotion, that discomfort, but then also helping them work through it and coming up with possible solutions. I love that. And he's owning it or, you know, your child is owning that, you know, going, okay, I can own not being good at that because it doesn't matter to me. But if it did, I could own getting better at that. Right. Exactly. And you have the ability to get better at it if you wanted to get better at it. Yes. Yeah. That's, that's it. That's life. You know, that's, that's, that's the key to life right there is kind of, you know, what can it, does it really matter? That's like, I feel like that's motherhood too. I'm like, do I really need to get better at this part of this thing? Is this really matter? Or, you know, it's evaluating it too. It's, you know, kind of doing a little inventory on when something sucks, which sometimes in motherhood things can be really hard and we have to reevaluate things and go, okay, well, do I really need to be doing this thing? Like, If I hate being part of the PTA, do I have to? No, you do not. You really don't. You don't. If there's something that you absolutely hate doing, really evaluate it and see if it doesn't really bring you joy and pleasure as a mom. Do we really have to, Dr. Dre? No, not at all. I think about that. There are some moms that love the PTA, and I'm just like, I don't prioritize it enough. I don't value it enough to put it in my calendar anymore. work things around it. So I'm not going to value like the PTA or like if you're the type of like, I enjoy baking. So like for my kids' birthdays, I tend to bake them treats for to take to school. But like if you don't value baking, well then just go to the store and buy them whatever it is that the kids want. Like that's okay. But I think there's so much pressure. I deliver this workshop called Audaciously Imperfect and that there's so much pressure on women to be And to do all of the things like dress in season into the nines and have full makeup and hair and like epic, you know, Pinterest worthy birthday parties and birthday cakes and the house is impeccable and you're working nine to five and all of these things, right? And you're supposed to be like this compassionate lover to your husband or your wife, right? And all of the things that I'm like, that's just so exhausting. It's yeah. It's so too much. No wonder women are so burnt out and it's social media is like reinforcing this impossible stereotype of like, Oh no, this is it. And if you're not doing all of this, then you suck. Yeah. Right. And so like in that workshop, I talk about like, I show a picture of my laundry room this one day where there's like five hampers, just completely the clothes are clean, but the ham, the clothes, clothes aren't folded. And then there's like all this other. And at the end of the workshop, I look at the women. I'm like, what do you see when you look at this picture? And a lot of the women are like, this is giving me anxiety. This is chaos. And I was like, you know what I see? I see a mom who's able to play with her kids because she doesn't get, give a crap. If the laundry is folded, I get to go play with my kids because I value playing board games with my kids over folding this laundry. Heck yeah. And I see an opportunity. I'm like, please someone invent the robot that can fold the laundry because it's the worst part. It's the actual worst part. Like please automate this task for me. I don't want to do it anymore. It takes too much time. Right. There should be like almost like a thing where it's like, here, we're giving people like go and design to someone. Please. Like it's like the dryer. And then once the timer of the dryer goes off, there's like almost like a suction cup that takes the clothes and then like the machine folds it and then puts it on the counter. That would be epic. I like your theory. I'm liking this suction wind thing you've got going on here with suction wind. Yeah. There's gotta be, I know I make, you know, because men have never had to fold the amount of laundry that women have had to fold. There hasn't been a solution yet for this. And I'm like, as women move into technology, can we please sort this folding of laundry situation out? I'm like digital transformation. Let me digitally transform. Your laundry room. Exactly. Automate this, please. For the love of God, we want to play with our kids. Right. We want to play with our kids. Well, then that's the other thing. Then it takes also like, cause then it's like, well, why don't you just hire someone to come in and do your laundry and fold your laundry or take your laundry to somewhere else? It's like, well, then there's like that embarrassment piece of like, this person's going to be like touching my underwear. And like, that's weird. Like my kid's underwear and like my house, like, ew, that's gross. But like, if it's just a machine, like she's not going to judge you. Exactly. Right. Totally. I know. I'm like, oh, we can do better girls. Please more ladies in technology. Let's build some stuff. Help us out. First, the laundry folding machine. First, the laundry folding machine. I think that's like the big one. I really do. I don't know one woman who wouldn't be like, and that's what we're getting next. Like we're getting laundry folding machine. Obviously, like you have a washing machine, a drying machine and no folding machine. We need a folding machine. Yes, please. So you have like the three things like washer, dryer, folder. Yes. Hello. I love it. Someone listening, get on that. Yes, please. I know you're out there. They really are. Someone's out there. Someone's out there. So shifting gears, you work closely with organizations navigating Gen Z in the workplace. What does Gen Z need from leadership? that previous generations didn't and what do they need less of? Help us as leaders, as women in business who are now having Gen Z employees. What can we do? How do we do this? Yeah. So I think the first thing is they need to know what the behavioral expectations are of them. So there's always like, oh, here's the job description, but the job description tends to be vague. And then there's like the yearly evaluations that don't work. So like the first tip I always give is like, do 12 week evaluations. And it's like what you're listing out in those 12 week evaluations are behavioral expectations. Like I expect you to be making 10 sales calls every single day. I expect you to be networking at one event a week. And so like, so that they can like check it off. And then it's very, very easy because now you are, when you're sitting down with them and having conversations with them, you are, you're, attacking their behaviors, you're not attacking them. And you're not really attacking them, you're giving them critical feedback. And then you can say like, hey, because behaviors can always change. And so we have to be able to tease that apart. So I think that's the first thing that we need to be doing is giving those expectations of like those behavioral expectations. And hopefully within like a 12 week period of time. I think the one thing that we need to be getting rid of. is just like throwing our hands up in the air and being like, oh, that younger generation, those Gen Zers, you know, back in our day, like that's not going to be helpful. And so when we, before we were talking about, you know, parenting skills and leadership skills are the same skills. When I go into corporations and businesses or the workplace, I talk about high expectations and high support. And so if you can give them high expectations, those are behavioral expectations, and also that high support, that's where you're going to kind of really cultivate an environment where they're gonna thrive and you're gonna be less stressed out because you're getting, actually you're developing, you're pouring into an employee who's actually going to become adaptable instead of having to fire them and then you having to do all the work to rehire them. And the cost, I think it's like whatever, however much that salary is, to fire that person and then to rehire them, it's double the salary is what SHRM says is kind of like the gold standard. So if your employee makes $50,000, it's going to take $100,000 to replace them with all of the things. But if you have high expectations and high support, well, then you're going to retain them. They're going to be more satisfied. They're going to be more productive because you're pouring into them both personally and professionally. It all works out for people. Nice. So the return on investment for us to have these kinds of high expectations and then also to give them the support that they need will actually – there's a good return on our investment. Like we need to see this as a business decision that we can do – we can make these kinds of shifts and changes and adapt our employee model so that we can retain employees, happy employees. Because people are getting – more young people are coming in. Yeah. older people are leaving. So we have to make these adjustments as leadership so that we can not cost our businesses a bunch of money and continually be hiring. Well, yeah, because like I have a friend who she's like the senior graphic designer at a company. And there was like an employee who was like her best designer. But like two of the Gen Z employees didn't like what the best designer would say sometimes. And so the Gen Z employees went to HR and complained. And so then HR went and fire was like, went to, you know, my friend who's the senior graph graphic designer or whatever, and was like, Hey, we have to fire this person. And they're like, but this is my best designer. And they're like, yeah, they're like, they're offending like Gen Z. And I looked at the, you know, my friend and I was like, Hey, why don't you talk to your HR and see whether or not they will pay for a few coaching sessions with me. It'll be like a thousand dollars. And then they can keep that your best designer and they're like, okay. So they went and the HR were like, wouldn't go for it. And I was like, we need to think logically, you can save your best designer by paying a thousand dollars, or you can spend $120,000. Like which one, like logically, like when you start putting into those numbers, it makes a heck of a lot more sense. Yeah, yeah. And once we start looking at things, which we are as leadership, we're really using AI to analyze data now for decision making. And this makes really good financial sense for the company to make these kinds of shifts. So if someone needs a coaching session on how to be compatible with another generation of employees, then you buy the coaching session and you invest in that employee because you're actually saving yourself a lot of time and a lot of money. Right. And that's the thing. I had a friend reach out to me. She works for a big media company. And she's like, hey, I have this employee who I want to hire for my team. They did an internship with the company. And when I asked the supervisor of the internship if they would hire them, the supervisor was like, I would not hire them. And it was a lot of like Gen Z stuff. It was they took a mental health day the day after they got disappointing news and They, you know, talked about how their their co-workers were abandoning them because their co-workers weren't out to lunch without them. And they're like, can we do a coaching session? So I did a coaching just one hour long coaching session with the manager. And she's like, OK, how do I bring her on? How do I help her be successful? And sure enough, we did one coaching session, one hour. And then all of a sudden, like she was able to bring this employee in and she's like, this employee is a rock star. And so now she's like molding her and she's investing in her. And it just took one session where then she didn't have to go out and do all of the searching for another employee because she already had a baseline on this one. I love it. I love the crossover between motherhood and the way we invest in our children and the way we do leadership with our children. And then how we're bringing that mentality into leadership in the executive space and how we're – basically, I kind of, – I saw myself doing that with my employees where I'm like, I kind of feel like I'm just like, my ideal is to like raise these employees almost to like, okay, you're little, we're getting to understand like systems, we're building these systems together. And, you know, as we were building out the digital transformation side of things and then, but my end goal was like, you're a beautiful butterfly and now you know exactly what to do. And I don't, we don't have to manage you. You can kind of, you know, And that's, like, the end goal is, like, how do we invest in our – how can we best invest in our employees so that they can have autonomy and do their job as well as they can do it and in harmony with the rest of the company? And so if we could do something like just a little coaching here and there because it is – we were raised very differently. I'm Gen X. We were raised different than the millennials, than Gen Z and – So it's very interesting. What an interesting perspective from a leadership perspective to hear your voice on this, Dr. Dry. Yeah, I think that's the other thing. It's like just like motherhood. So like we were talking earlier, it's like you have to when they're younger, when your employees are first starting off, you have to be like hands on with them. And then you start to like remove the hands and they can become more independent. And then you're not managing them as much as motherhood. as you are leading them. And then they're able to go out and do like projects all by yourself. And then you as the manager get your time back. And then you probably have more time to do it with other employees or you have more time to go home and be with your kids and your family. Yes, exactly. Or write a book and start a podcast. Why not? A YouTube channel. That sounds like a... Why not? So women today are managing careers at homes, emotional labor, parenting philosophies, and cultural shifts all at once. What do you see women carrying that often goes unnamed? I think I just saw, it's funny. I just saw an Instagram post about this and it's the, what did they say? The, the mental load of motherhood, like all of the decisions that we are having to make. And they had like this beautiful graph. And it all, all of like it listed out all of these things of that comes along with like being a parent and it's all falling on the mom side. And like only like two things fell mostly on dads and it was like sports. Um, but there's still all of the, this cognitive load, mental load on women that I don't think we're acknowledging enough of. Um, And kind of like asking for help with those things, because like, I think I believe our partners want to be good partners. You just have to tell them what you need and not just sit back and be like, oh, I have to do everything myself. You don't have to do everything yourself. Just ask your partner. And chances are, if they're a good partner, they will they want to help you so that you are not as stressed. Exactly. I really honestly writing my first book, that was me working through the ability to ask my partner for help in the house. That book is me working through it. And that book, it will basically, if you have trouble with this, the manager will help you get there. Cause that's like, that's what I need. I didn't feel like I, I almost felt like I didn't have the right to ask for help, which is so like good girl conditioning and all that, you know, weirdness that all of that cultural conditioning and it's, we, there are, partners, which means there's this equality in partnership, you know, and since women are working and men are working and everybody's working, it's like, well, the house is also a job. The kids are also a job. So if we're going to share it, can we share it and figuring out how to have the language around it and also how to come at those conversations without like coming at it the wrong way. Like you don't want to come in hot on that one. Yeah. Yeah. Well, like, so one of my guilty pleasures is I watched the real housewives of Beverly Hills. And I was watching the episode this morning where it was like, I can't remember her first name is Amanda. She's like one of the new housewives. And she was talking about, cause like she's talking about her wedding and she's going to get married in like October of this year or whatever. And she just kept talking. And it was like, Oh, being like me, I was like, that marriage is not going to last a really long time. Cause all she kept saying was like, oh, well, like, I make in a month what he makes all year. And I was like, whoa. And, like, really diminishing, like, her, like, partner. And I was like, like, we want them to be a partner. We need to bring them in so that they... It's a partnership. It's never 50-50, or it's rarely 50-50, but we want to have a partnership because that's also what we want to be modeling for our kids. Yeah. So that they have... good relationships later on. Yeah, totally. And lifting each other up, not putting each other down. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard. And you do go from I to we, when you get married, you know, you really do. And it's, you know, fine. That was, that was tricky for me in my first marriage was really hard. That was, I was a little young. Magic age for marriage is 25. I was, but I was still a little young. but I just didn't have the good modeling. You have the good parents that are like married and stuff. Right. So I didn't have that. I was, I bet definitely been on my own exploratory. What is relationships supposed to be mission for this lifetime? Um, but I'm getting there. There you go. Like, that's the, that's the thing that people aren't talking about is like how I always like talk. I will post this occasionally. It's like, how do you want your child to be treated by their partner? If whatever that is, that's how you should be treating your partner because your partnership, your romantic relationship, your marriage is the cornerstone, is the foundation of what they think romantic relationships are. Yeah. Totally. It's, and it's like, I do feel that responsibility in such a huge way being, you know, the homeschool mom. And like, I'm like, I know that like, they're literally learning from us, everything we do in this house, they're watching everything we do all the way we interact with each other, the way we communicate, you know, are we, are we being polite? What's your tone? Like all of these things are like, you're creating this culture of love that then your kids are going to move forward with a very similar culture of love. I mean, if you're modeling it, I think for me, it was so hard because I just didn't, I didn't have it. My dad left when I was six and I didn't have a lot of that. I really didn't know what a relationship was supposed to look like. And it's, it's, I've had to waste a lot of my adult life trying to figure that out. And so it's, you know, as parents, you know, if we can stay married to model for our children and if we can stay healthy in our marriages so that we can model healthy relationships and, you know, there's a lot, the lot of return on investment for the next generation in these things. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Because I think like how they see us and how, and how they actually, how they're actually attached to us, like their attachment style is the foundation for how they do all relationships in the future. And so like their bosses, their coworkers, their friends, their partners, their kids, Like, it's such a huge thing. It's such a huge thing. Well, I could talk to you for hours, Dr. Dre. You know this. I could talk to you for, we could talk about like, we could have a whole podcast just on motherhood stuff. We could have a whole series on motherhood. So let us know, girls, in the comments. If you want more from Dr. Dre, just let me know and we'll just keep on going. This conversation has been grounding and challenging and so necessary. And thank you so much for your honesty and your research-driven insight and the way you speak truth without fear, but always with care. Please be sure to check out Dr. Andrea Mata's new book, the number two parenting book on Amazon. I'll link it in the show notes. Dr. Dre, how can our listeners connect with you? So they can find me on, so I have two websites. There's andreadmata.com and then there's brightspotfamilies.com. And then I'm very active on LinkedIn. I should start to get on TikTok. That's what people keep telling me. I have a YouTube channel. What's your YouTube channel? It's just Dr. Dre. So D-R-D-R-E-M-A-T-A. Perfect. Okay, good. And for those listening, if this episode resonated with you, whether as a leader, a parent, a woman navigating the weight of modern life, I encourage you to sit with it. There is a power in expectation, clarity in boundaries, and freedom in understanding what's really happening beneath the surface. If you loved this conversation, make sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a woman who needs to hear it. And as always, remember, the work you do, the carry you carry. the leadership you embody matters. Until next time, I'm Amy Riccobus, and this is The Manager Podcast.