Your Calm Parenting Path

39. Different Paths, Same Mum Journey with Pam and Zana

• Nina Visic • Episode 39

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Ever find yourself comparing your motherhood journey to someone else’s?

In this episode, I’m joined by Pam and Zana from the Careers and Cartwheels podcast - and honestly, this conversation felt like a breath of fresh air. 

Their honesty, humour and deep respect for each other’s different parenting paths made this such a lovely, grounding chat.

Pam navigates a busy career and a blended family of five kids. Zana homeschools her three boys and embraces home life. 

On paper, their days look completely different - but what shines through is this: we’re all on the same motherhood journey.


You’ll Learn

  • How comparison shows up in different seasons of motherhood
  • How working mums and stay-at-home mums experience pressure differently
  • Practical ways to move through mum guilt and pressure
  • Why kindness and community matter more than competition
  • Two small shifts that create big impact at home


Why This Episode Matters

It’s so easy to fall into “us vs them” thinking. But when we slow down and really listen, we realise we’re all juggling, all learning, and all doing our best. This episode is a reminder that you don’t have to justify your choices - and you don’t have to do this alone.


Small Shift for Big Impact
Try one of the beautiful tools shared in this episode:

  • Get down to your child’s level, acknowledge their big feelings and respond with empathy.
  • Or practise “stop, calm, respond” instead of reacting in the heat of the moment.

Notice how that changes the energy in your home.


Take the Next Step
If this conversation resonated, share it with a mum who might need the reminder. And don’t forget to subscribe to both Your Calm Parenting Path and Careers and Cartwheels.


Links and Resources


Let’s Connect

Want more support? Follow Nina on Instagram or sign up for tips and updates at mindfulparentinglifestyle.com.au.

Have a question or parenting challenge you'd like addressed on the podcast? Send a DM or an email.


About the Hosts
Nina is a mindful parenting coach and mum who supports overwhelmed parents to feel calmer, more confident and more connected in their motherhood journey. She believes small shifts make a big impact - especially when we choose curiosity, empathy and regulation over perfection.

 

Pam and Zana, co-hosts of Careers and Cartwheels, are two mums parenting from very different places - one balancing career and blended family life, the other immersed in homeschooling and home life. Through open, respectful conversations, they’re building a space where mums can feel seen, understood and supported, no matter which path they choose.

This transcript was created using Headliner. It has been copied and pasted but not proofread or edited, so it may contain errors or inaccuracies.

Nina: You're listening to your Calm Parenting Path. I'm your host, Nina, a mindful parenting coach and mum, here to help you go from overwhelmed and reactive to calm, confident, and connected with your kids. This show is for parents who want to raise their children with more patience, less stress, and a whole lot more joy, because small shifts make a big impact, and you can build the parenting life you've always wanted. If you want to see what I'm up to, follow me on Instagram mindfulparentinglifestyle. And don't forget to hit follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. Let's get started.

Nina: Hello and welcome back to your calm parenting path. Today I'm joined by two wonderful mums and friends, Pam and Zana, who co host the podcast Careers and Cartwheels. Their show explores motherhood from two very different places. One navigating a career and five kids, and the other immersed in homeschooling and home life with three little learners. I invited them here because their honest, real conversations remind us that despite different journeys, the mum juggle is something that we all share. Pam and Zana, welcome to your calm parenting path. I'm so glad that you're here.

Pam: Thank you.

Zana: That was so beautiful. Thank you.

Pam: Thanks so much for having us.

Nina: Oh, look, my pleasure. Before we dive in, I'd love to know what drew you both to start this podcast together. What inspired you to have these conversations about motherhood from such two different perspectives?

Zana: Pam, do you want to start? Because you sort of had this idea initially.

Pam: I did. So I floated the idea. About 18 months ago, I said to Zana, uh, you have this beautiful, calm voice. We should start a podcast as a joke. And she never took this seriously. And I swear to God, it took her about 12 months to make the decision. And I made another comment. I think it was, what, maybe April, May. This year, in the school holidays, we caught up for a play date at the park with our kids. And I said to her, so we started, uh, sending each other voice messages because we're so often time poor, we don't have time to sit there and write big, long messages to each other. So we started voice messaging. And I said to her, I'm like, you just have this beautiful, calm podcast voice. We should. We should honestly think about a podcast. And that was if she was off like a bullet on a gate. And she was like, yep. So she went home that day and she started getting all these ideas together. And I think we cover such a breadth of. Of knowledge around different experiences. So Zana's happily married. Childhood sweetheart. I have, you know, had a child. Separated, remarried.

Nina: Yep.

Pam: Um, blended families. You know, Zana's got three beautiful boys. Homeschooling. So I feel like we just. Between us both, we've got something to offer everyone, you know, from. From our different experiences. But that. That's my. My take on it. Zana, what are your. What are your thoughts?

Zana: Yeah, I think. I mean, that's beautiful. And I think the reason why I, um, sort of took the idea and really ran with it was because I really thought about it, and I thought to myself, well, you know what? Over the years, we've watched each other do the mum juggle, and while it often looks different, we tended to really bond over what we shared in common.

Nina: Yeah.

Zana: And we. Yeah. Like, we really wanted to share those differences and really celebrate them for what they are. So they're just our individual personalities and living and feeding into our own strengths, but we also wanted to draw attention to what we share in common.

Nina: Yeah.

Pam: Yeah.

Zana: And I think, yeah, regardless of what we've chosen to do and how we do it, it's those things that really bring us together.

Nina: Yeah. Because we're all on the journey, aren't we? We're all experiencing parenting. Just, you know, our path might be slightly different, but our journey is the same.

Zana: Yeah.

Nina: Uh, that's really cool.

Zana: Exactly. Exactly.

Nina: Yeah.

Pam: Yep.

Nina: So let me ask you, what have you each learned about motherhood from standing on opposite sides of the spectrum?

Pam: Oh, gosh. I. I swear I asked Sana. Ah. How would you handle this all the time? I feel like I don't have any grasp of parenthood at all. I often describe it as I'm standing in a dark room, and I'm fumbling my way for the light switch. That's how I feel as a parent sometimes.

Nina: Interesting.

Pam: But I, you know, like, I. I've got five, you know, five kids between my husband and I, and I've just learned that, you know, what you do with one child is not the same for the next child. Everything is always so different. Um, but I'm always, you know, hey, Zana, how would you handle this? Or this has happened? What are your thoughts? You know, what do you think about this whole situation? So I definitely don't feel like I've got a grasp on parenthood

00:05:00

Pam: at all, But I am definitely learning every day, and I want to try and be the best parent I can be. And, you know, by doing by my m. By meeting lovely people like yourself, you know, that's how we, um, get different Ideas and we, you know, I guess on the journey of learning to be a mom and a parent.

Nina: I really love that because we often think that parenting has to be done alone and we have. It's a sign of weakness to say that we need help or to ask for advice. And so I really love that relationship that you guys have where it's so easy just to send a message and get some help and get some advice and get some tips. And that's where it really comes back to takes a village.

Zana: Absolutely.

Nina: So I really love that you've got that for each other and now you're sharing that with a whole lot of people.

Pam: Yeah.

Nina: Especially on your podcast. What about you, Xana?

Zana: You know, I think what I've learned, especially as a stay at home mum, it can sometimes it can feel really isolating unless you're actively going out there. Sometimes, you know, if you don't have school drop off, like at the moment we're homeschooling and we have been for six months and it's dangerous for that to become a little bit isolating unless you're really putting yourself out there, unless you're really making sure that you're attending things regularly every week, that sort of thing. But what I have learned is that as mums, we all share the same difficulties, the same worries, the same concerns. We have the same mum guilt. We share so many things in common that even if we feel lonely or we feel physically isolated, we're actually not alone. M. And you turn to any mom out there and she will no doubt share so many of, you know, your feelings and your own thoughts.

Nina: That's so true. And um, that's one of the fundamentals of self compassion as well, isn't it? To realise that you're not alone. Uh, you know, other people are on this journey and have the same struggles and knowing that means that you don't

Nina: feel as isolated as.

Nina: Well, awesome.

Zana: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Pam: I think that was one of the main, uh, main drivers of us starting the podcast is that we just, even if one person listened to our podcast and could resonate with us and got something out of it like that was. That's amazing for Zana and I, you know, just to know that, yeah, we've changed someone's life or someone can relate to something that we've said in the podcast. I. That was one of the reasons why we initially wanted to start up, you know, to just to get other mums on board and we wanted to try and create a space where mums could come to us and not feel alone.

Zana: Yep, that's right. Create that safe mum community.

Nina: Oh, that's so beautiful. Take the pressure off. Realise that you don't have to do it all.

Pam: Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Zana: And at least not alone.

Nina: Not alone. Yeah. Because you've talked about on your show about the pressure to do it all. So, you know, whether that's being the perfect working mum or the perfect stay at home mom or, you know, anywhere in between. How have you each learned to quiet that pressure? What tips have you got to share?

Zana: We definitely did. I think we dedicated an entire episode on this topic. I think for me it's definitely a lot of self talk. I've done a lot of reading and a lot of work on myself in terms of, you know, mental health, the, the psych, psychological part of, of what makes me me, that sort of stuff. So I feel like, um, I'm quite good at rationalising great. And doing that, that self talk. And if I do have really big feelings or I'm stuck in a moment or I'm stuck in this feeling that is not really nice and I'm struggling to get myself out of it. I always know who I can turn to, um, to help me navigate out. Yeah.

Nina: Having that support system.

Zana: That's right. So I think for me it's, it's not so much avoiding those difficult moments as it is knowing how to navigate when you're in them.

Nina: Oh. Ah, gorgeous. Yeah.

Pam: And using them as a learning experience as well.

Nina: Um, yeah, definitely.

Pam: Because I, you know, we've often messaged, messaged each other and we've, you know, Asana messaged me last week.

Zana: She's like, I had such a bad day.

Pam: I yelled at Miles and I'm like, oh my gosh, you're human.

Zana: Yeah, it's okay, you know, it's okay

Pam: for him to say that every now and again. You just, you're not yourself, you know, and I know what your likes arena, you would have, you know, gone to Miles and you would have apologised and you would have just been like, you know, mommy, mommy just had a bit of a moment.

Zana: Absolutely.

Nina: Yeah.

Pam: And that's okay. But we, we have those moments and gosh, I send them to you all the time. I'm like, I'm having a really bad day. My mindset's just really not great. And I rang Zana, uh, last week I was just having a really, really bad day

00:10:00

Pam: mentally and I rang Zana and you know, I was, I was crying and she's like, just go to the gym and Channel it out and then see how you feel afterwards. And, you know, knowing that I could call her for that support, it's just. It just makes you not feel so isolated and like you're doing this on your own. And, um, while I know Zana's not in the same position as me, I know she can empathise and she can try and put herself in. In my shoes. And she's always like, you know, I know how difficult this must be for you, but try and do this, or maybe try and do this. And to me, that's the guidance and the support that I need so that I can function.

Nina: Yeah.

Pam: As a human. And, you know, like, I don't. I don't feel like I've got it together all the time. And. And that's okay.

Nina: Yeah.

Pam: I don't have to be perfect all the time.

Nina: I think that's the epitome. You don't have to be perfect all the time. I think, you know, we often say, speak to yourself as if your best friend was speaking to you. That's the right way to say it.

Zana: Exactly.

Nina: And it sounds like you don't need to worry about that because you've got the best friend to do the talking to. But it's a really great reminder to anyone listening. If you don't have someone that you feel comfortable to talk to about this stuff, pretend that you're calling Zana or pretending Pam, telling them your problems. What would they say to you right now after you've had a tough day at home? What would be their advice? What kind of words would they use to support you through it? And I think that's really important because it's so easy to pile on the guilt and to speak to ourselves in ways that aren't kind. And having that one person that we can connect with to bring us back down, even if it's an imaginary person, is so important.

Zana: Absolutely.

Pam: And I have this little, um, imaginary birdie on my shoulder. It's called Zana. I have the wwzd. What would Zana do?

Nina: Oh, gorgeous.

Pam: On my shoulder all the time. You know, if I'm in a moment where I'm like, I feel like I'm losing my mind, I'll take a deep breath and go, wwzd. What would Zana do?

Zana: He actually has said that to me as well.

Pam: Yeah. You're just like this little imaginary person sitting on my shoulder looking over me every day now. What would Zana do?

Nina: Oh, that's brilliant. I've had people tell me that when they've had Trouble getting their daughter out of the shower. They're like, what would Nina do? What would Nina do right now? So, yeah, that's very cool. I'm just wondering, guys, um, um, we've just mentioned mum guilt because it seems to be universal. It seems like you've got great ways to cope with it. But how does it show up for each of you in terms of as a stay at home mum and as a full time working mum, what helps you move through that guilt?

Zana: I think we've definitely explored that. While we have different things that we feel guilty about. So for example, as a stay at home mum, I obviously have some guilt around. I'm not bringing finances into the home. M. And you know, with the rising cost of living and everything, it definitely puts a lot more pressure on my husband who does work.

Nina: Yeah.

Zana: So he's got a couple of jobs and he does an amazing job at paying for all the bills and doing everything that he does for us. But it doesn't erase my guilt. Even though again, rationally I know that I'm um, where I need to be. We both agree that this is where I need to be.

Nina: Yes.

Zana: And this is what we both want. This is the way that we both chose to parent.

Nina: Yes.

Zana: But then we also have guilt that is similar. You know, like we have the usual guilt around. Are we feeding our kids enough healthy food? Are ah, we, you know, are we managing screen time as well as we can all the rest of it? Yeah. But I think the way that I deal with all of it is honestly just rationalising self talk as well is such a big one for me.

Pam: Yeah.

Zana: I always like to stop myself and just ask myself some questions like why am I feeling this? Like what time of month is it? You know?

Nina: Yeah.

Zana: What's, what's contributing to these, these negative

Pam: thoughts or these, these fears?

Zana: And how can I fix that if it's an actual problem? And um, if it's not a problem then. Okay, let's, let's talk my way out of this.

Nina: It's that curiosity piece of mindfulness, isn't it?

Zana: Exactly.

Nina: Because mindfulness is paying attention to the present moment with kindness and curiosity. And so it's figuring out why you're feeling like this.

Zana: Exactly.

Nina: And not just assuming or, um, always going back to the same negative thought patterns but actually digging a little bit deeper. That's awesome.

Zana: Exactly. And I dabbled a little bit in cognitive behavioural therapy, so cbt. So for me it's always how are my thoughts impacting on how I'm feeling right now? And sometimes, like you said, just exploring that with that curious mindset

00:15:00

Zana: is enough to really promote a little bit of self understanding and self compassion.

Nina: Yes.

Zana: What about you, Pam?

Pam: Yeah, like, like, you know, like everything you said, we do have a lot of guilts that we feel the same. And, you know, one of your guilts has always been the financial burden that you feel you place. And I know that Michael doesn't see it that way at all, but it's, uh, trying to talk yourself out of those. Those thoughts. I think mine is more. Sometimes I don't. I've got the guilt around not being present enough for my kids because I'm stressing about getting to work at a certain time or at nighttime I might have to come home and finish off some work, so I'm not there to be present with my kids as much as what I'd like to be. So I have more guilt around, you know, could I be doing more with my kids? Um, that sort of guilt, that's sort of my. My main guilt. And gosh, I. I often have conversations with Zana where I'm like, oh, I wish I was in your shoes. I wish I could homeschool my kids. And Zana probably has moments where she's like, oh, gosh, I wish I was chasing my career.

Nina: Yeah.

Pam: But that's just, you know, we've both chosen the paths that we own and we both have to navigate, and we. We're not. We're human.

Nina: Yeah.

Pam: You know, we have days where we feel very challenged and our thoughts are getting the better of us. But Zana's probably a little bit more experienced in talking herself out of those thoughts than what I am. So I rely on Zana a lot more than what she probably relies on me. But, um. But yeah, it's just who we are. We're, you know, we're always going to feel that. That sort of guilt. And. And I think, you know, what you're doing around the mindfulness is an excellent way to try and get yourself out of. Out of those negative thoughts.

Nina: Yeah. Yeah. Because that's one thing I really love about your podcast is how you actually bridge the gap between, you know, mums who make different parenting choices and saying that whatever choice you make is the right choice for you. And I think that's.

Zana: Yeah, yeah.

Nina: Needs to be applauded and needs to be talked about more. So what do you think needs to change in the way we talk about motherhood so that it's not so much us versus them or, you know, the grass is always greener yeah.

Zana: Gosh. Both of those things, us versus them. And the grass is greener on the other side. They are two things that are so big in this space. I think. I m think first of all, we can try and bridge it by showing each other kindness by listening to each other and empathy as well. Being able to stop and think about.

Pam: Okay, it's.

Zana: It might sound really good to be a stay at home mom who homeschools, but in practise, what does that look like? What sacrifices has that mum made to be able to do what she does?

Pam: Yeah.

Nina: Yeah.

Zana: And it's the same with a, uh, mum who works full time and does chase a career. What sacrifices has she made in order to do what she does? And what does that look like on a day to day basis? So I think it's about talking. It's. It's exactly what we're doing. It's. It's putting it out there. It's talking about these everyday things.

Nina: Yeah.

Zana: Uh, and it's about raising awareness, teaching each other, and I guess modelling that we can be kind, we can understand one another and we can respect each other even if we don't make the same decisions.

Pam: Yeah.

Nina: Yeah.

Pam: I think the big thing with us, Sana, is that we completely respect each other as humans. And I would, I might not necessarily make the choice to homeschool my kids, but I know that you have given it a lot of thought and it's something that you've been thinking out for a long time. So I'm fully supportive of that choice that you have made. And I know you're the same with me. Like, you know that my career is really important to me and I don't feel like you judge me for that, you know, And I think kindness, being kind to each other and understanding that, you know, we've made the best decisions for us and our family regardless of what other people might think about that decision.

Zana: Exactly. And that decision is yours to make.

Pam: Yeah.

Zana: And you've made the one that you think is going to allow you to be the best mum version of yourself. M through. And I think that's really important. So something, a path that, that, you know, might work for me, might not work for either one of you girls. And that's completely okay. We have to choose our own path so that we can be the best version of ourselves.

Nina: It's respecting the right to choose, isn't it? Respecting the right. You can choose what you want to do. You don't have to be on my path.

Zana: Exactly. Yeah.

Nina: Um, we can be on different paths and still respect and be kind to each other.

Zana: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Pam: I still remember the days, Ana, you sent me a voice message and you were telling me, you're like, I've made this decision, Pam. And you didn't even have to finish the sentence before I knew what you were going to say. And I'm like, I

00:20:00

Pam: stopped the recording and I said to myself, she's going to tell me that she's decided to homeschool.

Zana: And you actually sent that text to me.

Pam: I did. Before I'd listened to the recording. And I knew because it had been something that you had spoken about and had been this, like, inkling inside you that you'd wanted to explore for a long time. So I was not at all surprised when you sent me that voicemail and I just knew that's what you were gonna say. And then I pressed play and she's like, I've decided to homeschool Miles next home. And I was like, I knew it because I've known. I've known you so long, and I've known that that's something that you've wanted to do and I completely respect. And I also know that you don't make decisions very lightly. So you would have thought about it and you would have discussed it with Michael in depth before you would have just gone. I know you didn't just wake up one day and go, I'm going to homeschool today. Like, you gave it so much thought and you do. And I see how you plan everything. And you, you know, you stay up late at nighttime to plan your days with the boys, and that is a huge sacrifice for you because you've taken on the role of a teacher as well as a mom as well as a wife. And that is a huge, huge sacrifice that you have made. But I know it's the right decision for you because it's your personality, it's who you are. You love that sort of stuff. You love being a teacher, you know, So I often think to myself, I'm like, gosh, you know, I feel guilty because I'm falling asleep at 9 o' clock at night and Zana is going to be up till 11 o' clock at night doing plans for the next day. But that's the choice I know she's made.

Zana: Yeah, but then you have to rush out the door with five kids at 7:30 in the morning, whereas I'm still in my PJs.

Nina: Yeah, I was just thinking, Matt, here's Anna having a nice, lazy, slow breakfast.

Pam: Oh, so envious we do yoga in

Zana: the mornings in our PJs. So, you know, like. And this is the thing. Um, we each make sacrifices. We each have our own little wins. It just looks differently, you know? So while I might be up late, you're up mega early and you're dressed

Pam: and ready to go to go to the gym.

Zana: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it just. It looks different in practise, but it does. It's a juggle for each of us, regardless of how we do it. And I think as long as we are in tune with our own values and as long as we make decisions to allow us to live congruently with that, then all we have to do is be okay with that and respect everyone else for doing the same.

Pam: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Nina: Yeah.

Pam: Love that.

Nina: Love that. I'm just wondering, has having these open conversations with each other changed how you see your own parenting or how you see yourself as a mum?

Pam: I think it's really opened my eyes to knowing that one, not every day is the same. You know, each day is going to have its own challenges, and it's okay to not be okay sometimes. So I think they're my main things. I think we're human. What about you, Zana?

Zana: I think for me, it's realising that I'm, um. Like, I listen to you talk about your day, and you'll be recording a message on your way to the gym, and you'll say, today I've got this and this, and I've got this meeting, and then I've got log. Got to log in here. And then. And I'm listening to it. Like, what.

Pam: I'm exhausted just listening to you.

Zana: So I think, yeah, I've definitely learned that you do best in that space. Like, you really. You are amazing at what you do. You are amazing at juggling this big career that you've built for yourself and being mum. But that's not where I would excel. That's not where I would shine. And that's okay. That's okay?

Pam: Yeah, Thousand percent.

Zana: Yeah. Because we're all different. And I, uh, shine in different ways. And I think it's, you know, it's about not chasing perfection or not chasing someone else's lives, not chasing what someone else is putting out there, but it's just being true to ourselves and saying, this is where I shine and this is where I do me the best.

Nina: Oh, I'm gonna quote that one. This is where I shine, and this is where I do me best. Brilliant.

Pam: Yeah.

Nina: Love it.

Pam: So, like, I'm a numbers person. Zana is not a numbers person, but Zana is super organised, like a great secretary. You know, have everything organised in alphabetical order, blah, blah. I am not so. We are so different personality wise. But that's what drew us together. You know, we're very different and we think about things differently, but we're, we're grounded together. Does that make sense?

Nina: Yeah, it really does. It's very special.

Zana: You're my yin to my yang.

Nina: Yes.

00:25:00

Pam: Just don't ask Ana, uh, to do anything maths related because he will scratch her head.

Nina: You're my spreadsheet girl, Pam.

Pam: I am your spreadsheet girl. Love a good spreadsheet.

Zana: I couldn't think of anything worse.

Nina: Have to admit, I'm a bit of a spreadsheet girl too, to be honest.

Pam: But then, like, you're super creative, Zana. Like you'll sit down and do all these activities with your boys and, you know, like, you've got a cricut machine, all that sort of stuff. And I'm just like going, um, what, what is that? I don't have a creative bone in my body, but put an Excel spreadsheet in front of me and I'll be lost for hours.

Zana: Give me some formulas. Hello.

Pam: Exactly.

Nina: I love that. Okay, so on, um, your calm parenting path, I'd love to explore the idea that we can make small shifts in our life that have a big impact. So I'm just wondering if I could get one small change from each of you that you've made in your parenting. That's had a surprisingly big ripple effect.

Pam: So I'm entering the terrible twos with my 2 year old. And it's so easy when you're in the moment and you're really frustrated to yell. You know, it's very easy to do that. You're at your maximum. You got someone pushing a little human pushing your buttons and you just feel like you've had enough. One of the big shifts I've made is actually staying really calm and lowering myself to his level. What is he feeling? What is he thinking?

Zana: Yeah.

Pam: Why is he having this tantrum? And I usually get down on my knee at the same height as him and I'll be like, I understand. We always talk about Ms. Rachel. Big feelings are okay. Um, and I'll say to him, I'll say, it's okay. You're just having some big feelings. It's okay. You know, Ms. Rachel has big feelings too. Mummy has big feelings too. But I've noticed that I get such a different reaction out of him than If I just stand over him, not quite my calm self. And so that's a big shift that I've made. And I've noticed a huge difference with him in the way I connect with him. Yeah.

Nina: Did you do something different with your other children and that's how you've noticed the difference as well?

Pam: Honestly, it was such a long time ago when Zoe was the same age and she was such a different kid. She never had tantrums. I didn't have the terrible twos with her. I had the terrible fours. And her terrible fours were like meltdown sort of experiences where that, you know, she couldn't let go of things and she would go on for about 45 minutes to an hour. Whereas, you know, Caleb's like a quick tantrum. If I say, no, honey, you can't have Oreos for breakfast, he'll get on the floor and cry because Mummy won't let him have Oreos for breakfast. I'm the worst mother in the world.

Nina: Yeah.

Pam: So I can't really remember my parenting of Zoe at that age, but I think for me, I'm a little bit older. I've had a lot more time to grow as a person.

Nina: Yes.

Pam: And to be able to get down on the same level as him and just say, it's okay. I understand that you're upset. Mommy can get upset, too. Do you want to cuddle? What can Mommy do to make you feel better without giving you the Oreos that you want for breakfast?

Zana: Excellent.

Nina: What a great shift. I love that.

Pam: Yeah. It is hard to do sometimes in the moment, but I think the benefit in the long term is a lot greater, to the point where now I'll give him something again. He'll go, thank you, Mummy. You know, like, he's always using his manners. He'll put his bottle in the sink after he's finished or something. Because I've got down to that level with him, and I feel like the response I get out of him is far better than if I just stood over him and was my not so nice self.

Nina: Yes. Had that connection with him.

Pam: Yeah.

Nina: Yeah.

Pam: What about you, Zana?

Zana: Um, I guess so. My day is, you know, around the kids all the time. I don't, you know, the reality is that I'm at home and I homeschool, so I don't really have any separation from my kids whatsoever.

Nina: And that's okay.

Zana: Like, that works for me because I don't need it. But at the same time, I'm human, so I do have moments where I do get really frustrated. Or, you know, I do have big feelings, or they're, you know, it's 9 o' clock in the morning and they're having their 50th fight, you know, whatever it is. But I think I've learned to tune into that and then just to stop and take a breath and take a couple of big breaths and I've. I've really realised how beneficial that can be. Just to take a couple of deep breaths to help my body and my mind regulate and calm first. And then something I always repeat to myself, but I'm teaching the boys as well, is stop calm and then respond rather than react.

Nina: Yeah.

Zana: And that makes such a huge difference.

Pam: Yeah, yeah.

Zana: Because I think reacting is when we're doing it from a place of overwhelm

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Zana: and stress and big feelings, but when we stop, we take a breath, we respond from a place of calm. 100% rather than react from a place of stress. Yeah, yeah.

Pam: It's like they say not to text message when you're angry, Right? Yeah. You know, for the same reasons. If you wait until you calm down, the response you're gonna give is a lot calmer than if you instantly react in the M moment when you're really frustrated or angry. Yeah, yeah.

Zana: Don't do anything.

Pam: Exactly. Just stop. Just stop. Take a breath. Yeah.

Nina: And what I like about both of your small shifts is that we, they're good for us and they may have a big impact on us, but we're role modelling to our children how they can respond. So, you know, if, if you're having a really hard time, you're responding, your kids are watching you take that pause, or if you're trying to support someone, you're getting down to their level, you're empathising, you're teaching them those amazing skills of empathy and calm, which I think is amazing. And it's only going to help them in the long run too. So it's a win, win situation, isn't it?

Zana: 100%.

Nina: Yep.

Pam: Yep.

Zana: Kids do what we do, not what we say. So, yeah, 100%.

Nina: So let's get back to your beautiful podcast careers and cartwheels. What do you hope other mums take away from listening to your podcast? And what type of space are you trying to create for them?

Zana: I think we're trying to, um, create a, ah, community of mums. And what we're trying to do, I suppose, is, like you said, bridge the gap and we're trying to build a community of mums who respect one another and who understand that we all have chosen Our own pathway unique to us and our families. And that's okay.

Nina: Yeah.

Zana: And our days might look different, but we can all connect based on the similarities and based on the things that we do share that are the same around parenting and being in this journey of mum. Hey.

Pam: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, you know, we are turning into a very social media society and it's so easy to judge other people by what you see on their Instagram page.

Nina: Yeah.

Pam: But I think, you know, if there's one thing we're learning along this journey is we got to be kind to each other. You know, like, we all make our own decisions and we make the decisions that we feel is best for our family and we shouldn't be judging each other based on those decisions. And we, we created this podcast because we wanted other mums to relate to us and go, yeah, you know, oh my gosh, they're doing the same mum juggle as I am. You know, she's trying to homeschool as well and, or, you know, oh, she understands the juggle when you're trying to get kids out the door by 7:30 in the morning. You know, we just wanted to be relatable and we wanted mums to know that they're not alone.

Zana: That's it.

Nina: And, you know, I think you've done an amazing job of that, I have to say.

Pam: Oh, thank you.

Zana: Oh, thank you, thank you.

Nina: Yeah, I think the work that you do is incredible. And I think the more that we can talk about our challenges and the more we can share what's going on for us, the easier it is for everybody. It's that, you know, not feeling so isolated, feeling like you have a support network, like you're not a alone. The other people get it. And I think that's what's missing as well. Often in, you know, modern day parenting, we, we look at the social media and we assume that's all there is and we don't actually dig any deeper. So, yeah, your podcast is amazing. So thank you. Thank you for doing that.

Pam: Oh, thank you.

Zana: Oh, thank you.

Pam: Appreciate it.

Nina: Yeah. Where can listeners connect with you and subscribe to your podcast to keep learning from the beautiful conversations that you're creating?

Pam: We are on Facebook and Instagram, Careers and Cartwheels. We have an email address. People connect with us@careersandcartwheelsmail.com Excellent. And we are on all the major podcast avenues like Apple Podcasts, Spotify, podbean, iheartradio. So, yeah, uh, we're on most of the major.

Nina: I'll put some links in the show notes as well so everyone can find you easily. Look thank you so much Sanne and Pam for being on your calm parenting path. It's been so great to talk to you and unpack some of these challenges that mums are experiencing. So really appreciate your time today. Thank you so much.

Zana: Oh, thank you for having us.

Pam: Thank you for having us. Thank you.

Nina: Thank you so much for tuning into your calm parenting path. I hope today's conversation with Pam and Sana from Careers and Cartwheels reminded you that no matter what your days look like, whether you're working, homeschooling or somewhere in between, we're all just doing our best to love our kids and keep showing up. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with a friend who might need that reminder too. And don't forget to subscribe or follow your calm

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Nina: parenting path and Careers and Cartwheels so that you never miss an episode. Careers and Cartwheels is such a beautiful space for honest, relatable chats about the reality of modern motherhood, and I encourage you all to subscribe. And if you'd like more mindful parenting tips and tools, come and join me mindfulparentinglifestyle on Instagram. Until next time, take a deep breath, be gentle with yourself, and remember that small shifts make a big impact.

Nina: Thanks for listening to youo Calm Parenting Path. I am so glad you're here and I hope this episode gave you something useful to take into your parenting journey. If you'd like to dive deeper, sign up to my mailing list@mindfulparentinglifestyle.com for more tips and insights. Or book a free chat to learn how we can work together. And don't forget to hit, follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. I look forward to speaking with you next time on your calm parenting path.

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