Facilitated

24| Needle in Hay: Finding What Matters with Vibrant Wellness Labs ft. Andrea Whitmarsh

• The Facility Denver • Episode 24

Share episode

Dr. Mitchell and Andrea Whitmarsh from Vibrant Wellness Labs dive deep into how lab testing quality impacts patient care and clinical outcomes.

• Lab certifications matter - CLIA is standard but CAP accreditation ensures higher quality control and validation
• Direct-to-consumer testing often leaves patients with data but no guidance on what to do with it
• Test sensitivity and specificity dramatically impact treatment - some labs have 100% specificity while others may be as low as 26%
• Comprehensive testing helps identify patterns across multiple systems rather than just diagnosable conditions
• Customized testing panels allow practitioners to target specific concerns rather than using one-size-fits-all approaches
• Environmental exposures like mold and industrial toxins can be identified through proper testing
• Seeing objective data on paper often helps patients commit to necessary lifestyle changes
• Price transparency is crucial - Vibrant keeps costs clear with no hidden fees
• The value isn't just in testing but in the interpretation and clinical application of results

To learn more about functional medicine testing and our direct order labs: visit our Vibrant Wellness WellProz website. 

If you are a practitioner interested in Vibrant Lab Testing, reach out here. 



Want to take the next step with functional medicine? Learn more about our new patient process and lab testing at www.thefacilitydenver.com

For more insights, tips, and behind-the-scenes content, follow us on Instagram @thefacilitydenver

Stay curious, stay proactive, and we’ll catch you next time!

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Facilitated, where we bring you real stories, strategies and science from the world of functional medicine. I'm Dr Mitchell Rasmussen, a functional medicine practitioner.

Speaker 2:

And I'm Kate Daugherty, a certified nutritionist. We are the owners of the Facility, a functional medicine clinic here in Denver, Colorado.

Speaker 1:

We help people improve their biology and get out of their own way. We help people improve their biology and get out of their own way. In my view, our work is about getting to know the person with the condition much more than it's about understanding which condition the person has. As I always say, diagnose the biology, not the disease.

Speaker 2:

On this podcast we break down complex health topics, share real patient cases anonymized, of course and explore cutting-edge wellness strategies so you can make informed decisions about your health. Quick heads up before we dive in this podcast is for education and general information only. We're here to share insights, not to diagnose or treat. So if you're dealing with a health issue, chat with a qualified healthcare provider before making any changes. All right, let's get into it. Today we have a conversation with Dr Mitchell and Andrea Whitmarsh. She is a regional sales manager at Vibrant Wellness Labs and she's been instrumental in our transition to more direct order lab capabilities and in changing the breadth of our new patient testing. They talk about lab quality and standards, challenges with interpretation, the importance of transparency and cost and validity and how it's really shaped our practice. It's a great conversation and I'm excited for you to hear it. Let's get into it.

Speaker 1:

All right, here we are again, kind of a new concept today. We wanted to bring in one of our friends who's a very knowledgeable rep from a company that we've been working with quite a bit lately. So, andrea, thanks for coming in.

Speaker 3:

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

We probably just gave you an intro right before this so we can just jump right into it. Perfect, okay, cool. So, yeah, part of what we want to talk about today not just your background and how you got into the lab testing space, but also how we utilize labs differently and like kind of the next level that Vibrant brings to the table. So I mean, what got you into this world? Coming from doing real estate?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so I lucked into this position, but I feel like it found me more than I found it. Actually, my sister-in-law connected me. She was the rep prior to me but she felt like I'd be a good fit for this. It's a lot of studying and, you know, relationship building. So between my kind of nerdy side and relationship side, that's how I got started in this. But I feel like this will be my path moving forward in the always. You know, hope to stay at Vibrant for a very long time, but the functional and integrative world just fascinates me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I mean part of. We hit it off right away because you came in and we get hit up by people all the time, right, but the thing that stood out to me was when I would press you with questions. You were just sharp, right on the spot, like well, here's how our test is different than LabCorp, and like it's not good or bad, it's just this is what we bring to the table. And I mean right away. I was just blown away at the knowledge base you have. I mean we've worked with other companies in the past that we won't mention, that we weren't getting a lot of support from the reps. I mean you even.

Speaker 1:

I remember one time we had a distance client actually came into town and wanted to get blood work and you ran over testing kits to the clinic that day to help with the customer service. So I mean you've really gone above and beyond for us to help us implement. You know better lab testing into our clinic and been great with the customer service. But I think what helps you stand apart is like your actual knowledge of the methodology.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean there's a lot of nuances in the lab space between what the testing offers and the technology behind it. There's a lot behind the scenes that a lot of people don't realize when it comes to lab testing space. So my job is to educate providers on those nuances and what makes us different. And, you know, I think it's really important because that can change patient care. You know, and a lot of the times I don't know the answer, but I have a very great support team behind me that helps me get those answers. So I'm happy to support you know practices and providers such as yourself, because I know you're changing lives and it's important what you're doing.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, I appreciate that. What do you feel like with Vibrant specifically? What do you feel like helps you guys stand apart versus some of the other labs?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, great question. So Vibrant stands out in a lot of ways, and first being you know we're CLIA and CAP certified. So how I always explain this is CLIA is like having your driver's license Almost every lab has it, you know. It's nothing special, but CAP accredited is College of American Pathologists and this holds us to a very, very high standard. So it's a you know, we elect into it and they can blind study us. They can come check out the lab at any time and if we're failing the validations that we claim to have, they can actually shut down that testing specifically or shut us down as a lab. So you know that provides a lot of clarity and security for our providers. In addition to that, you know we actually started as a research lab. So what makes that cool is that we partner with clinics or institutions like Mayo Clinic, john Hopkins, stanford to research and look into the new ideas and really build a good foundation for the testing that we're developing.

Speaker 1:

Oh, very cool.

Speaker 1:

Mayo Clinic that's my neck of the woods, back where I came from.

Speaker 1:

I remember one time we got some funky-looking labs back on a patient and you immediately had another sample to calibrate the system. And you said, no, it was exactly right on. And we ended up figuring out that there was a phlebotomist that had messed up spinning the blood sample. And it was so interesting because you immediately tried to take the blame and then said well, I'll send it back to the lab and look into it. And it was like, actually, no, it's right on, like the machine was working. Actually, no, it's, it's right on, like the machine was working. And remember that actually it was interesting because it made us stop using a certain place to get blood draws. But I just remember in that moment like, okay, like they take their quality control very seriously and they're willing to admit where they're wrong, but in this case there was no malfeasance on their end and it just it helped me feel a lot safer about the information we're getting right, because you can only treat someone as good as the data that you're being given.

Speaker 1:

And in my world, as we were talking before we started recording, you know, in a clinical decision-making model, I use testing as one of the four main validation methods that we're on the right track. It's you know the patient history, the presenting complaints, test results in response to treatment and being able to trust your test results to me is everything Absolutely.

Speaker 3:

I mean, it can get a little scary there when the test results are pointing you in the wrong direction and can totally change your path of care if you're not taking in the other factors and questioning those things and making sure you're diving deep into every little nook and cranny of the patient's story.

Speaker 1:

And that's my favorite thing to do so, and that's actually goes into something that I hope we talk a little bit about today with the new market of direct-to-consumer labs and AI and things like that. I mean, we get a lot of people come in with outside labs and there was no doctor had read them and it was just kind of here you go, here's your results. So I mean, in that space of direct-to-consumer lab testing, what do you see as either problems with it or lack of support that we see from other companies, like, what's your stance on that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So it's becoming more and more common with this new AI platforms and just the exposure of some new labs that are direct-to-consumer, and while I think that it's great that there's some exposure to this world in general, the problem I see with the direct-to-consumer labs is one okay, who is the lab? First of all, do they have the validations or are they just some little pop-up shop that is running things? And it can really be quite scary some of the results that they're giving you, because it can change your care and scare you as a patient. But more so, what I see is that patients are getting these labs and they are given so much information they don't know what to do with it. And that's only a part of the puzzle.

Speaker 3:

So, yes, getting the labs done is very, very valuable, but you need to look at also who the patient is, their lifestyle, their history, and paint this clinical picture and then the action items behind it. So you know, they're kind of left blind and I meet with providers almost every day right now and they're saying you know, hey, we're getting XYZ lab results in and these patients are scared and they don't know what to do. And then we're having we're starting, you know two steps back from where we could have started if they would have just sat down and met with us. Perhaps two steps back from where we could have started if they would have just sat down and met with us.

Speaker 3:

Perhaps they ordered labs that weren't right for them because they heard you know on a random podcast one time that they should test these things but maybe that's not right for them and their clinical picture. So you know spending money in the right place is an issue with it and then being lost once you get those results. You really need someone who understands those results and then also that can craft the right solutions for you specifically and also tweak that care as you are going through these things and you know symptoms change and you know understanding that you're actually making progress.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I mean, I'm in the camp, you know, about a decade into this, where I had a mentor once tell me that a sign of a bad clinician is someone who orders everything and anything. And so I'm really now getting to a point where I used to always say you know everybody's different, everything's connected and everything matters, and now I caveat that with everything matters but everything is not important right now. Right, and we just recently had a someone we're working with who came in, uh, hoping to lose weight and get more energy and all sorts of these things, and we ran labs, we ran some hormones, we got super far down the road and then we were left with this skin piece and that's when we ran a gut zoomer and we're able to get clarity on the next piece and it's fun for me, like you say what labs are you running and why? And just running these direct-to-consumer labs without any you know, rhyme or reason for it will sometimes overwhelm you or not even give you actionable data, and that's what I like, or I think, plug for the facility where we stand.

Speaker 1:

Different is we'll use labs that will actually change the next steps and in this case, you know, blood work, hormones do the basic biology first and then, oh, we're left with this skin thing that seems very much. You know, we've really improved our hormones, but there's this glaring thing and it's not an obvious gi issue. So there was no reason just to run a stool test the day we met her. But now, six months later, it's like, oh my gosh. This helps really inform our next three months of work together to really put the cherry on top of the sundae. And I think that's where we can stand apart from the direct-to-consumer labs, and we're not going to name any companies, but I mean, we are trying to do it differently. And that's where your direct-to-consumer Wellprose comes in. I mean, how has that been going for you guys?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, wellprose is an incredible platform, so you know why we came out with it is Vibrant, only does partner with providers. Specifically, we are not direct to patient and it's a very well-thought-out approach to it because we want patients to see a provider to get the care and we believe in that very strongly. But we do offer a platform for providers to sell testing to their patients and puts the patient in the driver's seat with the guidance of a provider. And so you know. We know that 80 to 90 percent of patients are looking for online solutions and we know you're going to your Amazons and your online stores to buy things because it's easy stores to buy things because it's easy. But we still are big advocates of going to a source that's trusted and that will give you the correct guidance. So that's where the WellPros platform stands out, and we like that when providers utilize it to connect the patients to this testing to then carry on the care further from there.

Speaker 1:

And one thing that I love about it is there's no cookie cutter. We were able to completely customize everything we wanted. You know, we recently made a female fertility panel and I was able to grab multiple sections of the vibrant lab testing availability and just make my own panel. And that's what I love is it's not just here. This is the same test that everyone gets, and we were able to make multiple layers, like depending on how much does the person want to spend, how much support do they need on the back end, where are they wanting to look? And a lot of these other companies are just doing this is our test.

Speaker 3:

Right.

Speaker 1:

But is this test relevant? Are you spending $600 for information that isn't important for your health?

Speaker 3:

and that's what I've been loving about is the customization ability for this well pros that we're using to really make our own unique panels, and then now we have a panel that nobody else has yeah, and I mean that comes from years and years of your guys' knowledge base that crafts these designed panels that will be specific to that patient and their concerns and their journey, versus some blanket approach, which I mean in this world we've seen the blanket approach in the traditional methods and a lot of the times that's why they're turning to you, because that didn't work.

Speaker 3:

Right so we need to look down and deeper into these more specific things that are specific to the concerns and the health issues that they're having.

Speaker 1:

And then I think price transparency is huge for me. That was one of the first things that we did together was I told you, well, here's what this lab I can run for this cost. And you sat down with the computer and you were like, I bet we can beat it and let's just, let's just create your panel, let's make the panel that you run generally and let's see cost comparison. And I remember I was I kept being like no way how, and it was like, well, automation and technology can make you know your company stand apart.

Speaker 1:

And another thing I really like is my new patient. Panels are typically about 14 vials of blood from old school labs and now we only have to give maybe three or four. So we're having way less patients passing out while getting a blood test. And then cost transparency is huge. And then cost transparency is huge on some of these other companies. What I realize is you go to their website and it shows a panel and then it shows all the availabilities and it goes extra cost, but it doesn't say what the cost is yeah so you might get.

Speaker 1:

Oh, it's a $599 test and by the time you click order it's a thousand dollars. And where you guys are way better than that, in my opinion, is what you see is what you get.

Speaker 3:

The cost is right there, there's no surprises yeah, I think that's one thing that we have done really well is we build these super comprehensive panels, we try not to leave any rock unturned and, um, you know, it's not going to be a $50 add-on for this one specific marker to make you feel like it might not be important. We don't want you to miss anything. And you know, coming to the cost transparency thing, one thing it also boils down to is cash versus insurance, and you know I've seen our same panel be, you know, in the hundreds of dollars versus a couple thousand dollars with the traditional methods or the insurance models, when insurance denied things like a vitamin d, which should not be denied and it's very important to look at, but insurance deems it not necessary. So the nice thing is is you know you're getting a comprehensive lab and then you also know out the door exactly what you're going to be paying, so there's no surprises, which makes it really nice.

Speaker 3:

I think I would rather know a hundred percent what I'm paying that day than get that nice little surprise bill in the mail insurance denied down the road. And then, speaking to the vial thing, you know we don't outsource any of our labs. Everything is ran, ran in-house, and so a lot of the other labs do outsource a vial here and there, and that's why you're getting, you know, 16 labs versus. It might be four with our lab, which is a small perk, but it does help and it's nice to not have to give away so much blood.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and for quality control? I mean when everything's done and I'm going to take you up on the offer to go check out the lab. I know when we were invited last time, it just say there's no ICD-10 code for prevention, right, right, the absence of a condition does not warrant third-party reimbursement. So people will say, can I run this through my insurance? And it's like, well, I'm trying to find patterns before they become a diagnosable condition. So no, so no.

Speaker 1:

And then you know, some people in the conventional space will say, oh, in functional medicine they just want to take all your money by running useless labs. Maybe there are people that do that and they're just plug and play, run labs, give a supplement. But I push back on that. I'm looking at patterns, right, and having comprehensive testing, and looking at multiple systems at once seeing how the gut microbiome influences your hormones, which can have a big impact in fertility, or this, that and the other. I'm not just running useless tests, I'm using things that are directed toward. Here's the set of problems. This is where the person wants to get. These are the most common interactions we see. Now let's dive in. And insurance just simply isn't going to acknowledge that that's relevant.

Speaker 3:

No, and I can say as a rep, I meet with hundreds of providers such as yourself in all different levels and categories and things, and a little plug for the facility is that I'm I well respect what you guys are doing and it's not just a you know, throw everything at the wall and see what sticks, and it's not just a plug and play um.

Speaker 3:

You know that they buy a packet and sell it um to you. They care and you guys are diving deep and have a knowledge base and so all providers aren't the same, just like in every industry. And so being very selective of the providers that you choose and not bad-mouthing anyone, but finding someone and a provider such as yourself that's going to fit their needs and the care. But you know there are providers that aren't well-educated and that will go about that approach and I see it every day where patients will come in to a provider who is well-educated and finally found them down a long, long road of frustration and maybe they've had our labs, but the difference can be a good provider. So you know they can run the labs all day. If they didn't approach it right um, or have those foundations, then it can totally change your journey well, that's one of the.

Speaker 1:

I think one of the issues within our our field of functional medicine is it is so broad and vast and there's no real standardization. So I I could empathize with you that, uh, you must feel like there's more you can give certain people, but they're just not there and they just, you know, in a lot of these places. I'll just be honest, they're very busy, they're making a lot of money and, like I always say, I need to put my head down at night and feel like what I did made a difference and I didn't just take advantage of people.

Speaker 1:

So I can see how that must be tough for you as someone with so much knowledge too, is like well, I'm not a doctor, but I think you could maybe look at this a little more comprehensively and not just plug and play. And what I appreciate is you're not first to the party, and that's what I always say is, I don't want to do it fast, I want to do it right. Right, I'm not going to make the quickest decision. I'm not an urgent care and emergency room. I need time to put a puzzle together, and that's what I appreciate. Even with, like, the hormone, the massive hormone zoomer that you came out with. You guys could have came out with a pretty good one five years ago, right, but you wanted to wait for more research and more data and like to get comprehensive views of metabolites, and I really respect the fact that you're not interested in rushing things out, you're interested in making them. So we put it out now. It's good.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, fine tuning those things. So, like the hormone zoomer that you spoke to, that was a really exciting launch for us because it's kind of the first test of its kind. We're thinking about things that other testing hasn't ever thought about. So, yeah, we're looking at urinary hormones, and that's great, and there's, you know, several other urinary hormone tests out there and we had one, a basic version, but we knew it wasn't the best it could be, and so that's when we up-leveled it, fine-tuned it and came out with the hormone zoomer, where we added in those endocrine disruptors, we added in bone density markers and oxidative stress and those kinds of things that that patient that's running that is going to really benefit from that information and that could have been the missing puzzle piece. Even if they ran that testing before, it will paint a bigger picture for them. And that's what makes it so cool, is that we are a research lab, is that we are pushing forward and trying to find the best new things and the things that are really going to help the patients with their journey.

Speaker 1:

And I remember an old company that we used to use for some gut testing, and you, I mean you came armed that day when we met about like well, is that zonulin test even verified by anybody? Is there any quality control? Is there any sensitivity and specificity? I'm like Andrea back off.

Speaker 2:

I don't know.

Speaker 1:

But it really forced me to like really be wary of who and what I trust. And you, I mean, you knew exactly, you knew the answer to those questions and like, gave me the data and like your sensitivity and specificity with certain stool markers, and like we're not going to run anything that hasn't been verified over and over again. And I remember that was kind of my, my turning point to really change over so much of our labs to to Vibrant, because you have the quality control data to show this test. If we run it, we know that that's what it's showing.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, um. So so to speak to that, for patients who may not know what sensitivity, specificity may mean, we, the best example is like looking for a needle in the haystack, so sensitivity would be okay. Can we find that needle in the haystack? Um, and that would be, you know, the pathogen that we're looking for? Um, and then specificity is okay. We found the needle great, but is it a needle or is it a bobby pin or a safety pin or a piece of metal? And so, like our gut testing is well established and has third-party publications proving a 96% sensitivity, 100% specificity, and so what that means is 4% of the time we may miss something in there with your pathogens, but 100% of the time, if we identify it, it's truly there, our competitors and I won't say who I know of one third-party publication that's showing 86% sensitivity, 26% specificity.

Speaker 1:

Oh.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So what that can mean is they're just basically saying like oh, I don't know, it looks like you have H pylori, you have it, and then the provider's treating it as such, which isn't the case, and so that can open up a whole other. You know that could be a podcast in itself is talking about those issues and what that could lead to. But you know we have the kind of third party publications to back it up so that you're not treating in ways that you shouldn't be.

Speaker 1:

I mean we see that in the tick-borne illness world all the time, right, the traditional Western blotting ELISAs are in some times more false positives than true positives.

Speaker 1:

And with the tick testing that we run through Vibrant it's because it's so comprehensive and you're doing so many layers of security and testing it's not just the ELISA, it's not just the Western blot, it's direct pathogen.

Speaker 1:

You know PCR digging into it's, looking at all the you know the bingo bands and the different proteins and this and that. So that you, because we know with Lyme it's a clinical diagnosis. So the worst thing someone can get with all of the classic symptoms and exposures to a tick, is a false negative test, because then they go on to get, you see it, neuroborreliosis, you know anxiety and OCD and depression and pain and neuropathies and all the things that come with that. All because of a test that almost, I guess, gaslit them into thinking well, I guess it's just generalized anxiety. And meanwhile you know there's another layer that we can always dig into and that's what Vibrant does. I mean you know your tick. What I appreciate about your tick panel is it's hard to miss something. You're looking at viruses and co-infections and you're going to pay for it because you're going to get actionable data.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Right, you can go get a $50 or a $200 Western blot or whatever, but it's like what does that data even mean?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean. Another kind of shocking statistic is that those traditional methods can miss I think it's 60% of well-defined cases. So these aren't just like barely barely positive, but well-defined Lyme cases. And so you know another, that's another one that we have a 95% sensitivity, a hundred percent specificity, and we are one of the I think the only lab that has been through what's called the CDC validation, both blinded and non-blinded. There's four rounds of it and we've been through all four rounds and completed it. And again, you know, one of our competitors, and kind of the one who set this foundation in the testing world, has only made it through two of the CDC validations. World has only made it through two of the CDC validations. So again, it's, once you get down to wanting to test Lyme, you really need to know if it's Lyme, and you're probably pretty sick and don't want to miss that opportunity. And then, in that regard too, you know that same panel with another lab can be thousands of dollars versus half the price with us. So that really helps on your journey as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean with having everything in house. It makes a big difference. I so recently you guys updated the gut zoomer and I was. I actually had a few people. I said, wait until July 7th because that was the day, and I love that you guys tease that way ahead of time so that we were able to, like, hold off certain people because I want this new information. What have you seen? What were the big changes on that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so we got, we did an overall facelift on it. So the reporting itself we fine tuned to help the patient and the provider. So you know, we we added in some kind of graphics to help explain all of this information that's going on. But we also added in additional commensals, additional pathogens, as well as inflammatory and autoimmune markers which help paint a picture, you know, even more so of you know are you having antibodies, and which you know leads you down the autoimmunity pathway. So that testing was really exciting for us to update and we didn't increase the price or anything for the provider. So I know they appreciated that. And you know the gut is such a crazy system that we're still learning about every day. So as we learn new things, we're able to change the testing and give you a better test as we go.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I always say anybody who looks at a stool test and pretends to know that we know everything that each of these things means is probably, uh, either ignorant or trying to sell you crap you don't need because it is. It's constantly changing and you know, even just looking at the, the protein markers within that stool test, like the S100A, and you know we can be much more specific than just like the old school way of calprotectin. And what I like is we still have that. But let's add another layer. And we just had a gal this week who eats occasional gluten and she knows she feels like poo-poo when she eats it and she had the anti-glide and antibodies were somewhat elevated and for her that was all she needed.

Speaker 1:

And I always say like gluten, dairy egg, soy, common irritants. There can be a lot of benefits to things like dairy and eggs for the right person, but gluten provides nothing. I had an old mentor that said at the best case scenario gluten is a minor gut irritant and at the worst case scenario it triggers your brain to deteriorate yeah so there's.

Speaker 1:

So there's no peace on that spectrum. Where gluten is that controversial that you should take it out? I know that it's not helping anybody for anything. And for that patient seeing, well, I eat it barely and I see it barely high, well, that's a direct correlation to my lifestyle and I want my skin to be clear, so I get it now. So, even seeing that anti-glide and antibody, like, okay, you're right, mitchell, I'm going to stop eating it 100%. I'm going to switch my toothpaste, switch my lipstick.

Speaker 3:

Right. Well, I mean one thing our clinical team will say is like being a little gluten-free, is like being a little pregnant. You can't be. You either are or you aren't gluten-free, and we can see that on your labs and we can actually kind of call people out on it with the labs.

Speaker 3:

And I think gluten is a great example for me personally. I was sitting down every day and kind of teaching providers about the importance of our wheat zoomer test and how that can really change and help a patient. And I finally ran it on myself change and help a patient and, um, I finally ran it on myself. No, I mean, I was preaching to the choir all day and I knew how important it was. And until I ran that test and I saw it on the paper, that changed my world and my life and I finally did the lifestyle change that I needed to do. But, um, sometimes that what it, that's what it takes to see it on the paper. And then you know even patients that are gluten-free or claim to be. We can run that test and really like, pinpoint, like where are we getting exposures and are we truly living that lifestyle? Because we've really got to bring down that inflammatory response to see a difference.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely, and I had a gal once. She was a chef, she had celiac, she was eating gluten-free but she still had gluten antibodies. It was a long time ago and figured out it was she was inhaling it when she was baking bread in a bakery.

Speaker 3:

Wow.

Speaker 1:

And she had, and it ended up changing her life and her career because she became a gluten-free baker or chef or something. And but it was it thing, I'm not eating it, why do I still have antibody production? Well, she still had exposure to the lung tissue and running tests was able to prove to her like, okay, I, I need to think about not just what I'm eating but what I'm being exposed to overall. And I we see it's nice because I always take the blame when someone doesn't get better. Sometimes having like that, that anti-glide and antibody, is like, well, you're not totally doing what I said and like you're not a little bit gluten free, right, it's Dr Sam Yannick, a guy that I really look up to, I've learned so much from. He always says if he's got a patient with gluten symptomatology or autoimmunity, if they're not willing to go 100% gluten-free, he's not even going to work with them. Because until you do that, you can blame that for all of your problems. Until you've accounted for that piece.

Speaker 1:

If you have an immune reaction to gluten.

Speaker 3:

I think one thing that goes along with that, too, is these things seem simple, but they're not easy, and so that's why, like sitting down with a provider like you and really understanding what that means is and having a coach along the ways. Like you know, the best trainers have a trainer themselves, and you know just that.

Speaker 3:

Accountability to walk you through this lifestyle change in this world and pointing you towards like hey, it can be in your drywall, it can be in your toothpaste, so you know where are these exposures coming from, and the kind of psychology behind these changes that patients need to make can be also a huge part of that. So not only is it like okay, we know what to do, but having someone walk along that journey with you and help you along the way is also very important.

Speaker 1:

Accountability. Did you make that up?

Speaker 3:

No.

Speaker 1:

At first I thought you spoke wrong. I'm like, oh, that was on purpose. I love that Accountability, I mean, and sometimes we'll use testing and it'll completely overhaul people's home environments. You know, we had a recent gal with a lot of mold exposure. She had recurrent strep throat. That's why she came in and we know that there's a connection between the ancient battle between fungi and bacteria and we just through the history were able to figure out that there was something in the home and then we dug in more.

Speaker 1:

It's like, oh yeah, our house flooded and then they got to it within a couple weeks. But, like you know, I do spend a lot of time in the basement and I do get, you know, more fatigue when I hang out there too long and it actually I felt kind of bad but it turned into an entire house remediation. But the lady but and then testing for mold was able to really like look, this is causing issues and the moment we started treating it she doesn't have strep throat in months right which was cool, but I always feel a little guilty like I started this.

Speaker 1:

My bad.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes it's better to be ignorant, but not really, because like this was causing you to be sick yeah and it's interesting, you see the organism pushing mycotoxins in their urine through a good test and you know well, you know you have air filters, you have all these things. It's not a dog allergy. Your ige is through the roof on a blood test and it was uh, I mean it changed her world, but I do feel a little guilty. But she was like, hey, we wanted a new kitchen, so yeah, I have another case like that.

Speaker 3:

I was talking to a provider and her total tox screening. She had this environmental toxin that was through the roof. Um, poor thing, was super sick and you know, she responded to care on everything but this one marker and they reran her total toxin. Just couldn't figure out what was going on. Well, a quick google search led to them figuring out well, you live down the street from this plant that's expelling this toxin on a daily basis and, unfortunately, the only way to stop that exposure is to move. And that's a hard decision to make and that's a big deal, but you know, if you don't have your health, what do you have? And so that's an extreme case, for sure, but it does happen.

Speaker 1:

And but had it not been for that provider figuring that out for her, she would have remained sick for a very long time well, and having sensitivity and specificity helps you feel confident that like this, like you said, if we find this, this is what it is, you know and if it's good to have the confidence in a lab where it's like, yeah, you need to move this, this lab is showing this all right. Well, thank you for taking the time to sit down and talk with us. If there are providers listening to this, how can they find you?

Speaker 3:

yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

If they want, if they're interested in learning more about tests and what they can implement into their practice to help people.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. Um, yeah, they can find me pretty easily actually just going to vibrant-wellnesscom and they can go to interested in a provider account. Um that will create them a uh a profile and then their rep, um, wherever they're at, we'll reach out. Hopefully it's in my territory, but we have reps all across the country to help you out and we really do kind of handhold the provider into utilizing us and answering those questions.

Speaker 1:

Awesome. Yeah, thank you so much for all these insights. I invite you, the listener, share this with anyone that feels overwhelmed. If they've been doing their own labs and they need help with it, definitely reach out to us. That's my life. It's not my hobby. It is my life is helping interpret these things and help people get moving on. The way you know, numbers without context create confusion. So you can have a bunch of information, but if you don't understand how it all works together, it's probably not going to get you anywhere. My, my partnership with you guys, with Vibrant, allows a lot of transparency and, I would say, a lot smarter testing, so I thank you for that.

Speaker 3:

Well, we appreciate working with you guys and I think you know our motto is test, don't guess, but then you know, taking it back to a provider and having them answer those questions.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean that's. My goal is I want to close that gap between here's the data and here's the action.

Speaker 2:

For more about what we do at the facility, check out our website wwwthefacilitydenvercom. You can also follow us on Instagram at the Facility Denver for extra tips, behind-the-scenes fun and updates on new episodes. Thanks for listening. Now go facilitate your own health and we'll see you next time.